Wolverine + Deathstroke vs. Spider-Man + Scarlet Spider

Peter is faster due to raw natural speed and Spider Sense, but with Slade's own fairly formidable metahuman speed, he can eventually tag Peter. Slade would have an easier time taggging Kaine due to his lack of Spider Sense, but Kaine's stinger's stabbing damage those present a problem to Slade. Peter overall is the MVP in terms of avoidance ability for the Spiders.

Logan should take the majority over Kaine here, while Deathstroke's armor, skills and weaponry are the winning factor against a morally burdened Peter.

@cable_extreme: Oh for sure. I just thought Slade might even have a slight chance at soloing if he could bypass their Spidey-Sense and was given the right opportunity.

Well, he should be able to beat Spider-Man, but kaine's bladed arsenal mixed with his superior stats would be something Slade probably couldn't overcome, his Nth metal armor is more susceptible to bladed weaponry than concussive force.

@wolverine08: Ah, see, I haven't gotten around to reading any of Yost's Scarlet Spider yet. Didn't know he had a lack of Spidey-Sense. Hmm, he's in for some big trouble unless Peter can find a way to keep Deathstroke away from Scarlet Spider. Even then, Kaine has Wolverine to deal with. I think I'd go with Team Killer Instinct here.

@jaken7: I can see why you would mate.

@cable_extreme: Scarlet's got superior stats? Now I really feel ignorant. Had no idea he was so much different from Pete (thought he was just a clone like Ben Reilly was. Right? I thought the only hook was that he doesn't have Pete's morals.)

Kaine's main differences from Peter are that he is physically stronger and faster, is less morally bond, has stingers, lacks Spider Sense, doesn't rely on avoidance as much, and is more connected to the Other entity than Peter.

No he is stronger, faster, more brutal, and his stingers are more than likely capable of bypassing Slade's armor.

@wolverine08: Well damn. I'd still go team 1, but I'd be the first to admit my opinion isn't really valid when I'm apparently incredibly ignorant about Scarlet Spider. I hope Marvel release that Omnibus soon. Or deluxe volumes or something. Yost's run is done right? Kaine's moved onto the New Warriors?

@cable_extreme: I had no idea. He sounds awesome! How come he's so much faster and stronger than Pete? Are they not clones?

He is faster in terms of speed, but not in terms of reflex avoidability. And he is stronger, but I am not a huge Kaine expert, so I don't wanna talk out of my a$$ in explaining why, lol.

Yup. You should check out Yost's Scarlet Spider. It was pretty great stuff.

@wolverine08: @cable_extreme: I'm really impressed with you two. You each have a known bias (or love of) in regards to each character on team 1. Yet, I'm getting schooled in knowledge about a character from team 2. You guys acknowledge all of Kaine's strengths, and admit when your favorite character would have a tough time with some of his opponent's abilities. You guys are so damn fair it's ridiculous. I may not spend enough time in the Battles forums, but I've seen enough to be amazed at your penchant for acknowledgment of equality. So balanced.

Alright I'm done kissing you kids' asses. Lol

I know, people love me :D

@jaken7: Haha, thanks!

Team 2

Web shields won't help considering current deathstroke is using promethium bullets. And Kaine has yet to show he can even make them. And do you really think deathstroke and wolverine are just going to allow the spiders to gain up on them? Its not exactly that simple.

As for goblin he has very few note worthy speed feats.

@cable_extreme: Did I ever say his weapons are useless? Deathstroke's staff is about as powerful as your average goblin bomb. But his weapons are nothing team Spider can't dodge. If they were fighting in an enclosed space yes he has a chance at tagging them but the location is OP is wide open. And what makes you think his mask is actually attached to the rest of his armor?

Goblin is faster than Deathstroke and that makes his bombs harder to dodge. But enough with the goblin comparisons. Spider team can use webs to pull off Deathstroke's promethium blade, staff and his mask. That doesn't fall under web-incap. Any of DS's attacks can easily be dodged by team spider. Remember they can also use webs to move around the location (which is wide open in the OP ). Once his mask is pulled off he can be knocked out with a blow to the head. Wolverine will be harder to put down but after DS is down the two of them gang up on him to finish him off.

@hyperbertha:

Goblin is faster than Deathstroke and that makes his bombs harder to dodge.

Deathstroke's staff is about as powerful as your average goblin bomb.

Do you actually have anything to back these statements up with? I'm not jumping into the conversation, but you seem to be just making open ended statements with nothing to support them.

Do you have any proof to support goblin being faster then Deathstroke? And no him being faster does not make his bombs harder to dodge when Slade has much better accuracy.

Yea removing all of that stuff with just webbing from a distance isn't exactly going to be easy. Slade can cut webbing and dodge some to get in close. Additionally Peter isn't going to just stay out of reach the whole time. He rarely does that when he is fighting skilled fighters. He tends to go in close quite a bit. And additionally he knows nothing about Deathstorke. HIs first instinct isn't going to be to remove the armour. He has to figure out the armour increases his durability while the fight goes on.

@hyperbertha: what makes me think the mask is connected to the rest of the armor is how it is shown in New 52, I can pull up scans showing him lift up his face mask and having it still attached to his helmet.

It's a separate piece. I'm not sure if he can connect it to the armor or not, but it's removable.

Good battle cant decide I think I might go with team 2 simply because Wolverine doesn't have any long range attacks, but I can easily be persuaded

I think the confusion stems from the Scarlet Spider name. There've been two (major) Scarlet Spiders, Ben was the first Kaine is the second. Ben was essentially just a clone. Kaine is also a clone, but he was flawed resulting in a few major differences between him and Ben/Pete. He had a similar abilities to Pete but amplified. His powers changed during the Spider Island story arc which gave him his current powerset.

I was referring to Goblin's glider not his physical speed. And Deathstroke's blasts are obviously as powerful as a bomb (for proof simply look at the scans cable extreme uploaded) which Spiderman has more than enough experience of dodging. It is the location that gives team 2 the massive mobility advantage and the victory.

Yes I have proof that Goblin is faster than Deathstroke on his glider. You misinterpreted my argument. The glider is what gives Goblin a tremendous speed advantage over the likes of Spiderman as we all know.

Slade can cut webbing with his promethium sword. Peter will be smart enough to go for his sword first after a minute fighting him since he knows it's Slade's best chance at killing him. Removing all that stuff with webbing is definitely very probable due to a significantly higher speed advantage. When he realizes his melee attacks are being tanked he will pull of the mask with webbing and dish out enough damage to knock him out. If its Kaine that's fighting Deathstroke instead of Pete who do you think would win?

Hmmm, tough for me to say, I've got a huge love for both Deathstroke, and Scarlet Spider. I also like Spider-man alot. But what about Kaine's transformed state. In that form his speed and power seemed pretty tremendous, easily overpowering anything that his normal form couldn't do hardly anything against. If he was injured enough I could see this form coming out, and morals will disappear from Kaine. I don't think either Wolverine, or Deathstroke could come close to handling Kaine when the Monster comes out. It's also shown to heal any and all wounds that Kaine has. In that form I could see him soloing both of them. I haven't really seen anyone discuss this side of Kaine. So is his Other form off limits for this fight?

I don't see how travel speed makes his projectiles go any faster but whatever.

And how does he just remove the blade? Is Deathstroke just going to let it happen? Webbing can just be cut so that won't work....He didn't just fall back and go range when he fought wolverine in the grave yard despite knowing his physical attacks are useless why would he do that here? And he can't even use webbing from range in a way which will really help him. He needs to go in close to remove all this stuff and Its not like Slade will let him.....

Kaine can possibly beat Deathstroke. I think its debatable. He isn't as evasive as Peter is so Slade can tag him as well.

@jashro44: Can Deathstroke cut his web without his promethium sword?

@bloodynights: The Other is essentially Kaine morals off. Everyone is in character here.

Well taskmaster once cut spider-mans webbing all though it has been used to block bullets when Peter created web shields and it is stronger then steel. It would be debatable but I would say no. All though the OP says Deathstroke has his sword and "his (Deathstrokes) sword" is promethium if this is where you are going.

@wolverine08:

Yeah but that is his character still. If Wolverine started to overpower Kaine, and use those claws on him, and heavily injured Kaine, he would switch to that form.

I only see morals off, as in Spiderman suddenly becoming a ruthless killer in a fight and going straight for the kill. He wouldn't do that. Kaine's situation is part of him, just as much as Wolverine's healing factor.

So what if Spiderman just webs up his sword and pulls it? Both his web fire rate and his own speed is more than enough to do this. What would Deathstroke do? He has two options-either hold onto it or let go. And if he lets go he is a sitting duck since his remaining equipment cannot do great harm to either of team 2 unless he manages to tag them with it.

And as for how goblin's bombs move faster its momentum.

Because he can just kind of slash his way out. With his Nth metal and promethium blade he has cut through military jets, deadborn (who is bullet proof), and decapitated war blade (who tanked hits from superboy). It won't require much leverage to cut the webbing as long as he has the promethium sword.

Faster then what? Bullets? Slades blast staff? I don't see how.

The problem here is Peter isn't going to be willing to do the quickest and easiest methods of putting Slade down (neck snapping), Kaine will but he is going to have a hard time with either combatant and honestly in a brawl (which peter tends to do a lot with unfamiliar enemies like deathstroke and he has done to wolverine quite a bit) he isn't ending this fight fast enough to help kaine.

You don't seem to have read my argument. I asked what Deathstroke would do if his sword itself was webbed and pulled by either of team 2.

@hyperbertha: He would just cut it. I read your argument and I know what your saying. Your saying what if they webbed the sides of his blade where it isn't sharp, the answer is he will just twist it to cut the webbing. Kaine and Peter are fast but they are not so fast that Slade cannot react.

Team 2.

No they can just web the sharp part. Its not like the blade itself is stickproof or anything. They can just web up both ends of the blade preventing DS from twisting it or they can web it up completely making it useless. Then pull. The Blade cannot cut through web without momentum.

@shenkuei said:

@cable_extreme said:

@hyperbertha: what makes me think the mask is connected to the rest of the armor is how it is shown in New 52, I can pull up scans showing him lift up his face mask and having it still attached to his helmet.

It's a separate piece. I'm not sure if he can connect it to the armor or not, but it's removable.

Removing his whole helmet would be a rather hard feat to do since he...

1. Doesn't know how to take it off.
2. he will leave himself open to get his hands cut off.

Here is an example of his face mask being "attached" to his helmet.

But Slade still has his blasting staff, his explosives, guns ect.. And Wolverine is on his team, he could use his explosives as a type of diversion to get Wolverine's help if that happens, but it would be a rather hard feat for Spidey to pull off.

@cable_extreme said:

@shenkuei said:

@cable_extreme said:

@hyperbertha: what makes me think the mask is connected to the rest of the armor is how it is shown in New 52, I can pull up scans showing him lift up his face mask and having it still attached to his helmet.

It's a separate piece. I'm not sure if he can connect it to the armor or not, but it's removable.

Removing his whole helmet would be a rather hard feat to do since he...

1. Doesn't know how to take it off.
2. he will leave himself open to get his hands cut off.

Here is an example of his face mask being "attached" to his helmet.

And the helmet.....is it attached to the armor? And spiderman doesn't need to use his hands to remove the helmet. Long range webs would do just fine.

@hyperbertha said:

@cable_extreme said:

@shenkuei said:

@cable_extreme said:

@hyperbertha: what makes me think the mask is connected to the rest of the armor is how it is shown in New 52, I can pull up scans showing him lift up his face mask and having it still attached to his helmet.

It's a separate piece. I'm not sure if he can connect it to the armor or not, but it's removable.

Removing his whole helmet would be a rather hard feat to do since he...

1. Doesn't know how to take it off.
2. he will leave himself open to get his hands cut off.

Here is an example of his face mask being "attached" to his helmet.

And the helmet.....is it attached to the armor? And spiderman doesn't need to use his hands to remove the helmet. Long range webs would do just fine.

Lol, there is no way the helmet is being removed with webbing, it is N-th metal.....

This removing the helmet strategy is just starting to become reaching really.

@cable_extreme said:

@hyperbertha said:

@cable_extreme said:

@shenkuei said:

@cable_extreme said:

@hyperbertha: what makes me think the mask is connected to the rest of the armor is how it is shown in New 52, I can pull up scans showing him lift up his face mask and having it still attached to his helmet.

It's a separate piece. I'm not sure if he can connect it to the armor or not, but it's removable.

Removing his whole helmet would be a rather hard feat to do since he...

1. Doesn't know how to take it off.
2. he will leave himself open to get his hands cut off.

Here is an example of his face mask being "attached" to his helmet.

And the helmet.....is it attached to the armor? And spiderman doesn't need to use his hands to remove the helmet. Long range webs would do just fine.

Lol, there is no way the helmet is being removed with webbing, it is N-th metal.....

True if it is attached to the armor. I can remove my helmet from my head. Doesn't matter if its made out of diamond. Shenkuei showed a scan of DS pulling off the entire helmet while you showed a scan of Deathstroke pulling up the helmets front panel.

@hyperbertha: True if it is attached to the armor. I can remove my helmet from my head. Doesn't matter if its made out of diamond. Shenkuei showed a scan of DS pulling off the entire helmet while you showed a scan of Deathstroke pulling up the helmets front panel.

So you are trying to say that Deathstroke's high tech N-th metal armor helmet can be taken off easily? There is no feats supporting this, and of course Deathstroke can take his own helmet off.

Here are the reasons why Spider-Man won't do this.

1. He doesn't know how to take off the helmet like Deathstroke does.
2. He won't know to take of the helmet since he has no knowledge of Deathstroke period.
3. The webbing will not be sufficient enough to pull off his helmet, he would simply pull Deathstroke towards him. (If his helmet came off that easily, it would come off in any punch or explosion, or even a flip, it clearly latches to his armor.
4. If he comes in close and wraps his hands around his head, that is sufficient time for Deathstroke to chop his hands off.

Try something else since this method is rather absurd and reaching.

Does Deathstroke have his other stuffs like mines, smoke bombs and power staff or only the ones told in description?

@cable_extreme: Well since he can pull of the helmet completely it is safe to assume its locked to the rest of his body by some latch as you said and not actually a part of his armor like Ironman's head.. In that case it definitely is a viable approach to web-pull his helmet. Are you telling me Spiderman (or Kaine) doesn't have the strength to pull of a single helmet even if the helmet itself is nth metal? The Op says DS has only his sword (I don't know how I missed this) in which case team 1 loses even faster than I thought.

The major problems here are:

• If Slade can react fast enough to cut the webbing before he pulls he will cut the webbing. Again he doesn't need much momentum considering his cutting feats.
  • Your assuming Peter is going to go melee, realize Slades durability, deduce its his armour which makes him durable, retreat and start webbing off Slades armour and weapons. I don't believe he's ever done this before. And he has been in similar situations to this.

I don't see how Slade can move his sword if its webbed at both ends. And twisting barely gives enough force to cut Spiderman's webbing.

Peter has disarmed opponents before. He does it even against weak fodder. And why wouldn't he deduce it's his armor which makes him durable? He doesn't have to go melee he would deduce it at a glance due to the armors appearance and pull the helmet off. In any case op states that Slade only has his sword in which case I think even you would agree team 1 loses.