Wolverine & Daredevil VS Cassandra Cain & Deathstroke

@cable_extreme: Did Slade hit her liver?

Yep

@jashro44: Ah thanks for that. I remembered Zatanna vomiting, but I didn't think a liver shot would do that. I was wrong.

@monsterstomp: No problem.

I see Jashro beat me to it.

That would also be an effective move vs someone like Black Canary, though a sword in the mouth is probably just as effective.

@cable_extreme: Using a pressure point technique is a demonstration of skill around comic land. The problem with your example of your pressure point example of people using them is that the people you mentioned, particularly Batman, have shown greater knowledge with pressure points with him having being noted by Dick to know every pressure point that exists on the human body. Wolverine's shown greater martial talent than Slade simply because he has more demonstrations of explicit martial knowledge in a plethora of martial arts, and has shown greater proficiency with nerve strikes in causing pseudo aneurysms with them, and dropping aliens with them. It is as simple as that I am afraid.

The situation you describe would work if Cassandra and Deathstroke were working together as a perfect unit, which they are not. Cassandra is going to fall fairly quickly against Wolverine, and James can definitely handle Deathstroke one on one.

So what, Wolverine has a few more showings using pressure points, it doesn't show an increase in skill. Looking at how much issues Wolverine has been in compared to Slade, it is evident that he has had many more instances to use pressure points. And even then, Slade has been shown to use pressure points.

But you bring up a VERY good point. Deathstroke has studied Dick Grayson's moves for years. If he knows pressure points on the body, then Slade must know them too, or how would he avoid them?

Also Cassandra and Deathstroke can easily work together, they are skilled enough and actually know each other. While they have had their hard times, they actually talk, and here is Slade talking to her about her true nature, and why she would be good with him.

She has a side of her that understands Deathstroke, and he understands her, and given their consistent history fighting each other, she would know how he fights. That is a big advantage.

@cable_extreme: Hey, don't try to sight how many comics Wolverine being in as to what contributes to his superior skill. Slade has had time to equate Wolverine's pressure point knowledge(Enducing pseudo aneurysms and incapacitating aliens) despite being in less comics. Wolverine has simply has shown much more explicit knowledge in martial arts, and has simply used the pressure points in more advanced ways than Slade that would contribute to a higher level of knowledge. I'm honestly struggling to understand your Nightwing point. Dick noted that Bruce knows every pressure point, not him, so Slade evading him isn't some incredible showing of technical knowledge.

Your scan also really doesn't prove much. Slade and Cassandra simply understand each other's motives, that doesn't equate to knowing how to work together as a well oiled machine in a fight.

I wouldn't say it is more advanced than striking the liver and forcing Zatanna to choke on blood for 15 minutes, I agree to disagree on that point. And I will repeat, nerve strikes are a form of martial knowledge, but whether he knows a different pressure point than Deathstroke in no way gives him superior skill. Slade has consistently shown that he is easily capable of dealing with Wolverine's skill. He has application of what clearly shows great skill. And Slade has fought Batman, I wonder why Batman didn't use his "superior martial knowledge" to knock Slade out with a pressure point, or why Cassandra Cain hasn't (whom has used a great deal of pressure points). And regardless of whether or not Wolverine has more martial knowledge, his application of what he knows (skill) is not at all superior to what Slade has shown.

Also Slade and Cassandra have fought on many occasions, Slade even training his daughter Rose to fight her (meaning he knew a lot about Cassandra's fighting style). He is able to deduce how both The Ravager's precog, and Cassandra's body reading work, and effectively make them irrelevant. It is clear he has a deep understanding of people, having studied the Teen Titans (including Dick), and having also studied Cassandra, he knows their fighting styles and moves. So this is also a sign of skill, but their history allows them to work together effectively because they already know each others tendencies.

@cable_extreme: I'd say that giving Captain America a pseudo aneurysm that almost killed him, and especially incapacitating an alien with pressure points is most definitely a better showing of great technical knowledge than anything Deathstroke has accomplished. I am also not following your part about Deathstroke's fights against Batman and Cassandra Cain. Are you trying to insinuate that since Batman and Cassanrda haven't put down Slade via pressure points, that shows he has technical knowledge on par with Wolverine? The application you talk about is just beating up skilled fighters without demonstrating technical knowledge. Slade has never shown the in depth martial knowledge Wolverine has, and combine that with his superior technical application of pressure points, and wins over skilled fighters, and he's most definitely a better martial artist.

Like I already said, Deathstroke fighting Cassandra, and learning her fighting style does not equate to them being able to fluidly use their strengths as a team.

You are trying to set your own standards for what skill means. Skill is the application of what you know, and yes the nerve strikes on Captain America, and the aliens are impressive, it doesn't mean much but Wolverine knowing a pressure point strike. there are sometimes thousands of moves within a single martial art, showing a pressure point is only a single move within a martial art. And not only that, but Wolverine will not be using pressure points, he will be using his claws, so that area (pressure points) that he might be slightly more skilled in is completely irrelevant to the rest of his fighting capability. Plus, using 1 or 2 more pressure points when you have literally more than 15 times the amount of showings doesn't show superior skill. Which is again, you setting your own standards.

And yes, Slade has easily shown the depth of martial knowledge, everywhere from taking on teams of people, to studying everything there is to know about someone and then outperforming them. You are sadly mistaken if you think Wolverine has consistently shown more skill when out of his thousands of showings, he has a significantly less amount of showings of skill.

And like I have said, Slade and Cassandra's fighting history will allow them to work together, you are not providing any reasons why it wouldn't, and in the end, it is still 2v1 with both people having around the same skill, maybe more, and even better tactical ability. Logan will not only get defeated, he will get outsmarted.

@cable_extreme: Not really setting my own standards for what skill encompasses. You are simply avoiding things that you don't like regarding Deathstroke, and adding poor ABC to boot. Using a pressure point to degree Wolverine has by inducing a aneurysm and putting down a 50+ ton alien Kid Gladiator are usage of pressure points to a higher degree than Slade has ever shown. Not sure what you mean by Wolverine having 15 times the showings effects his skill. Taking on teams of people does not show the in depth martial knowledge Wolverine has been shown gaining through training(Mastering 18 forms of Kung Fu, etc.), and studying someone then beating them is tactical skill............. Like I said, your logic in this is becoming ludicrous.

Deathstroke and Cassandra's fighting history does not show they will work together well. Simply fighting someone a few times does not equate to you guys being able to efficiently use each other's unique strengths fluidly in a fight. Deathstroke isn't only going to lose here, he's going to dismembered.

@wolverine08: Yes you are making your own standards, you are acting like the use of pressure points signifying a greater skill. That is not the case at all, it just means you are proficient at using pressure points.

Skill is determined by how you are able to use the knowledge you have (application), such as beating someone else who has a high degree of skill.

Also, for Cassandra Cain and Deathstroke fighting together, you don't have to use eachothers strengths fluidly to beat another person, even though they most likely will be able to due to understanding each other's tendencies, and Slade even training his daughter to fight her tells us he knows a lot. Slade by himself is already good enough to take a small majority over Wolverine given the correct conditions, the fact that this adds Cassandra Cain, who can punch hard, and use pressure points to cause temporary paralysis is easily good enough to take the win. And like I said before, whoever Wolverine is going for, it leaves the other person free to attack. It is simple as that, and not only does Slade have someone on his side, he has superior tactical ability, which means he will outsmart Wolverine a great deal this match.

You are correct, Deathstroke isn't going to lose here.

@cable_extreme: No, I'm making my own standards. You are just getting angry about things you can't counter for Deathstroke. Using pressure points has always been used as an indicator for showcasing skill around comic land, and Wolverine has shown a higher level of technical knowledge with applying pressure points than Slade. Wolverine is a better martial artist than Deathstroke for the reasons I've already gone over endlessly like showcasing more explicit martial knowledge, more technical knowledge in using pressure points along with his defeats of skilled fighters.

Deathstroke teaching Ravager to fight Cassandra does not show he can effectively work with Cassandra for a fight. it just shows he has studied Cassandra's fighting style extensively. Bring Cassandra and Deathstroke fighting effectively as a team then you have something. Wolverine wins here simply because doesn't have the correct means to utilize a good damage on Wolverine, and with her lack of durability, will get dropped with one stab, and Deathstroke loses to Wolverine as always due to James having a higher degree of martial talent, ludicrously better healing factor, and better damage output in melee.

You are right, Deathstroke is going to lose here again against Wolverine. Like he always will for the majority. I'm not going to be responding to you again. No point in it I'm afraid with your stubbornness around Deathstroke.

Team one, what can they do to kill Wolverine?

@wolverine08: I have already told you why pressure point knowledge is not directly related with over all skill. And deathstroke has used pressure points before. Wolverine having 2 more showings of pressure points is not at all a determination if superior skill, that makes no sense. Skill is the application of your martial knowledge, which I gauruntee you, Slade easily is at Wolverine's level. Your standards are clearly bias towards Wolverine. I could just as easily say Slade has more martial knowledge because he is able to make precog and body reading inconclusive. Which in reality wouldn't make him more skilled, but it would contrast your arguement.

And I never stated Slade would lose here, so why would I be right about that? Anyway, if you do not want to reply, I will simply agree to disagree with your opinions.

They don't have to kill him.

@cable_extreme: There's no bias here towards Wolverine(Funny coming from someone so biased to Deathstroke......, but hey.) I simply pointed out things, and you gave foolish examples to try counter. You are right in that I'm not replying. Repeating the same things to you over and over again(Like people tend to have to do when they debate Deathstroke against you) is getting ridiculous.

You did repeat the same things over to me, even after I addressed them. Also, I said your standards for determining skill were biased.... they were. Because Wolverine in his 10 thousand + showings did 2 more pressure point strikes than Deathstroke with around 700 issues.....

There was nothing biased about what I was noting skill wise. I simply noted that Wolverine has demonstrated a higher degree of technical skill with pressure points than Deathstroke has. The amount of issues argument is profoundly weak. 7000 issues is more than enough time for Slade to equate Wolverine's technical skill with pressure points, he simply hasn't.

I would agree that Wolverine has done more pressure points, but that hardly determined skill, and Slade only has 677 issues, not even a thousand. So 1 in 677 is actually statistically better than 3 in 10000+

@cable_extreme: Lol, pressure point usage has long been used to demonstrate a good degree of skill in comics, and I'm not even speaking of James using pressure points more than Slade, he's also had more technical skill around his use of pressure points than Slade.

How so?

How so what?

Dropping an alien via pressure points. That's more obscure technical knowledge around pressure points than Slade has ever demonstrated.

Maybe more knowledge vs an alien. also Slade can win via incapacitation by leading Wolverine into a building and destroying it, making ti fall on top of him.

There no buildings here. Not sure if you are trying to be purposely asinine.

There are buildings in the picture.

@cable_extreme: They are fighting in a playground. Stop being asinine, please.

There is a building to the right, and don't be rude.

Just calling out silly reasoning.

If there is a building to the right, how is it silly reasoning? It is a valid way to win.

The building will fall on Slade as well. I can start giving out silly reasons for Wolverine winning as well too if you want.

Slade has done stuff like that before, I am giving out multiple ways to win, even though he will still most likely win the majority with a stab to the heart.

Slade will never beat Wolverine for a majority without prep.

Sure he will, with a stab to the heart, or through the eye socket, or even incap by having a structure (building) fall on him. He could even ko him with repeated blast with his blasting staff. Take all the flesh and everything on him leaving nothing but skeleton, Wolverine's skin isn't any more durable than any other human. Quite easy way to KO him.

@cable_extreme: Wolverine isn't going to let Slade stab him the chest, he'll most likely try dismember him, and I must say, the eye socket stab theory is one of the most ridiculous things I've heard. The sword is too damn big to put in Wolverine eye's, and James is again not going to let Slade stab him in the face. Slade doesn't spam the blast staff in fights against skilled fighters, and he has multiple showings of tanking explosions far stronger than what Slade brings to show that he can take multiple blast staffs. The building will fall on Slade as well. Even then, they've been dodged by skilled fighters like Batman before.

Slade is never going to beat Wolverine for a majority in a random encounter, bye.

First off, the sword is not too big, it is mostly depicted in pre 52 as a promethium katana.

Second, the building thing he has done before, think of Aquaman as Wolverine.

Gallery

Slade takes a slight majority over Wolverine due to tactical advantage, ranged capability, incap ability, damage output.

The only thing Wolverine has on him is Durability / healing.

@cable_extreme: The sword is too big to fit in Wolverine's eye(A katana is too big to fit in someone's eye), and like I said, Wolverine isn't going to let Slade stab him in the eye, he''' dismember him. Lol, Wolverine isn't going to be running into a building out with Slade, and showing Slade using a tactic once in 677 comics isn't going to prove he'll even try something like that.

Wolverine as usual wins due to superior martial skill, far better healing factor, far better durability, and a better damage output.

He did it because the situation called for it, I can bring up more, like him bringing down a huge building that Cassandra Cain, and The Ravager barely escaped. It is a valid tactic to use vs Wolverine since the situation calls for it.

Slade has equal or perhaps even superior showings of skill, metahuman stats, better damage output in terms of this team fight, ranged advantage, and tactical advantage. Wolverine, as much as I like him, isn't winning this one.

(Now Arrow is about to come on, I'll continue this after).

@cable_extreme: Not going to explain to you the points I've already laid out quite succinctly. If you refuse to listen, too bad. Bye.

These points you have made do not hold up to scrutinization, I do not refuse to listen, I know and understand your points, it is just that you refuse to acknowledge mine, which are effective counters your your claims. I even provide scans for my method of victory, and you have simply said three times in a row that Wolverine wins, I wouldn't say that I am the one refusing to listen.

If you want to keep this going, I don't mind talking to you.

Bye.

@wolverine08: 50th time saying "bye" is the charm.

Lol.

Team 2 in a good fight, regards to Wolverine taking Cass and Slade together, think they are too much for him.

Well with his antamantium skull and all, it takes a lot to knock Wolverine out. So,