Wolverine & Daredevil VS Cassandra Cain & Deathstroke

Yes he has, but he died in the process. He is dead until his heart grows back, but it is still reaching the Death state.

What makes you think that Deathstroke or Cain can even stab directly through his heart though? Promethium Sword? Blast staff? I don't think those things will make that much of a dent with Wolverine's adamantium skeleton intact. Wolverine can easily dodge these attacks aswell.

Two people that can contend with him physically will have the upper hand in terms of attacks. Also, Slade stabbing Wolverine wouldn't put him at any more risk than punching him.

There are gaps between his ribs.

That may be the case, but Wolverine is extremely agile and fast. I think it would be very hard for Slade to land that precise of a blow, and if he tried this, as @wolverine08 stated, he stands a chance at being dismembered in the process.

Only one of those two people actually have a damage output that Wolverine has to really pay attention to, and with her lack of effective gear to deal with Wolverine, stands a fair chance of getting dropped fairly early into the fight. If Slade tried to use only fists to try attack a Wolverine whom had his claws out and was actively using them, he'd stand an even better chance of getting dismembered.

Her body reading works on Wolverine, which means he isn't going to touch her a lot. Especially while dodging Deathstroke as well. Deathstroke has a much better chance at stabbing Wolverine with a sword, than Wolverine does dismembering him with Cassandra's aid.

@cable_extreme: In a fight in which Cassandra is fighting someone just as skilled as her, and just as fast, Cassandra stands a fairly good chance of getting injured by Wolverine. All that James needs is one well placed stab, and add in that Cassandra has a damage output that is far below what is need to even cause Wolverine much trouble at all, she is looking at a good possibility of getting dropped. Wolverine has a pretty decent chance at dismembering Slade. It's not like Slade and Cassandra are some perfect unit working together, and if he goes in for that big thrust, it's not like Cassandra will put his hand away at the last second before he gets dismembered.

In a 1v1 situation yeah, but this is 2v1. With both people in Wolverine's skill range. Twice as many attacks coming his way.

@digitalshooter9: He's a troll, man. And he ain't even good at it. You can tell by everything he says. The contradicting points, the uber-elitist attitude, the hostility over nothing, and of course the RIDICULOUS claims that he makes. It's evident that he's trying to get a rise out of the people here and I'm not sure why mods haven't just banned him.

Just flag and ignore, that what I should have done. He says stuff like DD being 1000 times faster than Deathstroke and Wolverine to get you to correct him. Then it is just a viscous cycle where he puts words in your mouth, or says something else that will force you to reply. It is clear he is trolling.

Exactly. I truly feel for you after having to deal with his BS posts. :P

Well, lesson learned lol

@cf12793: @cable_extreme: @digitalshooter9: ok ......you guys might not agree with me but is there any reason to call me a troll? especially you digitalshooter given how the last thread where you were saying such things ended?

a troll is someone who deliberately derails a thread despite knowing full well Himself that he is doing it just for the sake of annoying people

now i may be wrong and everything but do any of you believe that i dont believe what i am myself saying? do you think i am purposedly derailing a thread just out of spite or do you think i honestly believe what i say?

if you are looking to insult me , the word you are looking for is "fanboy" or even "deluded"

as for pointing out every line by line error of both cableextreme and digitalshooter, i will do it tomorrow. for one thing it is impossible to upload scans on my phone and besides, i am busy today.

you might want to edit previous comments, especially you digitalshooter given your past experience upon failure to do the same

@cable_extreme: So are you telling me Cain is superhuman in terms of speed while being peak human in everything else? That scan doesn't say anything much other than a bunch of rookie guards mistaking her prowess to be superhuman.

@cf12793:

I agree with you on that team1 wins. But I don't agree that Cassandra Cain beats daredevil. He can predict moves at a faster rate. Tbh if they make a thread with DD vs Cain I'd say daredevil wins 5.5 out of 10 times. It's that close. I think reading people's heartrate is faster than reading body language. And both are peak human.

Listen just don't listen to people who call you a troll okay? You're dealing with fanboys here. Just let it go. Digital shooter is the last guy in this thread i would take seriously. He claimed yellow power ring is one of batman's standard equipment in another thread and even said I had multiple accounts and that these multiple accounts are the only ones supporting me in debates........ Ignore his every word.

@lunacyde: not taking you seriously. I don't take people who don't understand 'canon' seriously. And 'I'm wrong as always'? lol funny hearing that from someone who has yet to counter any of my posts in a decent manner. You wanna start a fight here? start calling names? fine by me. You ain't winning :) Just remember you started it........ And CC's body reading technique isn't doing much good against a heartreader.

@juiceboks No i don't think I'm 'Hilariously' incorrect. I would have thought reading the eyes would be much more effective than reading just the body. And I never said CC had to be disadvantaged for DD to win. Be very careful with the words you use. The last thing this thread needs is another fight and I'm really not in the mood for that.

And Try posting scans where it doesn't look like she's just checking batman out. That's not body reading as far as that single scan shows.

Very true. While Wolverine and Daredevil make a much better team.

@cable_extreme 2 vs 1? Nope. Even if cc somehow managed to drop DD , wolverine would have finished DS by then. I don't see how this can ever turn into a 2 vs 1 unless its wolverine,DD vs CC which is much more probable.

@hyperbertha

No i don't think I'm 'Hilariously' incorrect. I would have thought reading the eyes would be much more effective than reading just the body. And I never said CC had to be disadvantaged for DD to win. Be very careful with the words you use. The last thing this thread needs is another fight and I'm really not in the mood for that.

And Try posting scans where it doesn't look like she's just checking batman out.

..in what way would reading someone's eyes be more effective than reading their whole body? That makes no sense. Excuse if I seem rude..but when I see someone make an argument based on misinterpreting a character's ability that has been explicitly named and described MANY times throughout their publication history, it just dumbfounds me. How you could come to the conclusion that her body reading is based on eyesight is beyond even my comprehension.

And speaking of comprehension..is that what you make of the scan? Really? Even if you didn't know the context(which based on your answer is quite evident that you don't) just reading the narration should tell you what's happening. And to think that Cassie even looks like she's "checking Batman out" shows you know very little about the character. Not even gonna get into why Cassandra checking out Batman is absurd and OOC for her..

@juiceboks: I don't remember ever stating eye reading is the only part of her ability. And your job isn't questioning whether I have any idea of the context that your random scan is pulled from. Just prove to me eye reading is NOT part of her ability if possible. And if its really NOT a part of her ability too bad for her. She still won't beat DD for me. Especially since she got her ass handed to her by batman.

And again, watch your tone. I don't care if you're dumbfounded or mortally wounded or anything.

No, what you are doing is making claims that are quite absurd, and putting words in my mouth and in others. not only that, but you have an attitude similar to someone that was trolling. If you were not I apologize.

But claims like Daredevil being 1000 times faster than both Wolverine and Slade when Daredevil is clearly the slowest one here is why we thought you were trolling. Daredevil, while being skilled, is still peak human. So that means his speed, strength, durability, basically everything about him ios at the peak of human ability. Now Deathstroke and Wolverine are enhanced metahumans. This means their strength, speed, durability have all been enhanced.

Also another big problem, and this is mainly between you and me is that I provide a significant amount of scans that you consistently lowball. What lowball means is you try and dismiss the scan in whichever way you can come up with to help your case. however, the problem with this isn't the lowball, it is that no scans are being provided from you to support your argument. So it seems like i am providing scans to someone who is making me waste my time.\

Now if you are not trolling, then lets have a nice conversation starting with you making your argument clear, with some scans, and we can restart from there.

@hyperbertha: No, Cassandra Cain has super speed and strength. I have also shown scans of her strength.

Hmm why am i so sure she's a peak human? Could you elaborate on the source of her 'super' stats if she has them? What is it that makes her more than human? Any enhancements that I don't know about?

It is her training. She has superhuman feats and as I have shown you, been shown to measure up to metahuman speed and strength.

So if a human is trained well he/she can achieve superhuman level? Are you sure you can't just call all those supposed superhuman feats as either WIS or misinterpretations? Like that scan I mentioned

@digitalshooter9 said:

How old are you? 12? 13?

@wolverine08: two people of the same skill and speed is superior to one. Them as a team will outmaneuver him greatly. Think of it this way, 2 mma fighters vs 1. Who will win that match do you presume? The 2 mma fighters due to being superior as a group. They will land more hits on wolverine, be able to lock him out, not to mention the pain that Cassandra can cause to Wolverine even if it is simply temporary. I would even argue that a 1 on 1 Slade has a pretty good chance at stabbing him I the heart if previous stuff didn't work. Also Deatstroke has verses many good and amazing fighters and has yet to be dismembered.

This.

@hyperbertha: no she is a meta human in terms of speed, look at the scans, they even measure her at meta human speed.

As a fellow comic reader let me ask you something , do you think other 'peak' humans have never ever been shown to display more than human speed and strength? Very reliable sources tell me Batgirl isn't anything more than peak human. Many characters are subject to inconsistent writing and she is one of them. Too much WIS. Many characters, like DD , Elektra etc have shown feats that are FAR from peak human. That doesn't make them superhuman. Its called comic science. Here in a comicvine battle thread she is not anything more than peakhuman. But if she can indeed be considered a superhuman (or metahuman ) based on her feats then DD can be too.

@hyperbertha: here on comicvine she is considered to have meta human speed, I have even brought scans supporting this. Show me your "reliable" sources that state otherwise.

@cable_extreme: The MMA fighter argument doesn't hold up in that does two fighters would both have the means to put the massive amount of damage on that single fighter they are facing, which isn't the case here. Cassandra becomes a problem in that despite all her speed and skill, she isn't bringing anything near the damage output needed to actually even give a decent amount of damage on Wolverine, and with James sporting speed and skill that are on par with hers, it won't be long at all before Wolverine gets the one stab he needs to drop her for good. Slade has faced many a good fighter and hasn't been dismembered, but he hasn't faced any fighters who have three 12 inch adamantium claws on each hand that can slice through his arms with absolute ease, and a higher degree of marital talent to boot.

Yes I know she's considered to have metahuman speed by a select number of people, based entirely on her feats. If i show you certain feats of daredevil, would you call him metahuman as well? And I'm rather disappointed with the way you replied to this comment :

You didn't reply at all just a repeat of your own argument. I'll show you my sources afterwards. I need to go.

@hyperbertha: I brought up scans stating she has meta human speed and strength, that is different than bringing up a seemingly meta human feat. This is why I asked you to bring me your very "reliable" sources stating otherwise.

@wolverine08: I realized I replied to a statement you made on the last page. However, my mma comparison was to show how much easier it is for Slade to land hits on Wolverine with Cassandra helping him as well. Also don't start the Wolverine Is more skilled than Deathstroke arguement or I'll just bring up how he will think of Deathstroke as fodder. There is nothing to conclude wolverine being more skilled than deathstroke based on actual showings of skill. And Deatstroke is wearing promethium plating on his shoulders/arms which require a great deal if force and is similar to marvels adamantium. I doubt cutting Slades arm off would be easy.

Nope... go up....

@cable_extreme: Cassandra isn't going to be that much of a help frankly with Wolverine. Like I already noted, it's not like she has a perfect in sync teamwork with Deathstroke, and it will not take too long for her to get drop with one stab by Wolverine. And your argument that Wolverine will think of Deathstroke as fodder is extremely weak one. The only way that could actually happen is if it's in character for Deathstroke and Cassandra to fight with no skill in their fights, is that what you are saying they do? With Cassandra fighting Daredevil and giving massive amounts of trouble and Slade demonstrating his skill against Wolverine, there's no way for James to mistake them as fodder, sorry. Yes, Wolverine is a better marital artist. He has shown more explicit martial knowledge than Slade, has also demonstrated more technical aptitude with things like pressure points, and his massive track record against top tier fighters to top it all off. Wolverine will also slice Slade's arms with absolute ease looking at showings. He's cut off half of the Thing's face with one slash, cut Hulk on numerous occasions now, cut Namor, Thanos, etc. It isn't even really debatable as to whether Wolverine would easily dismember Slade.

They are both easily skilled enough to control Wolverine. Wolverine will not be able to control the fight with both people in the same skill range as him, it isn't going to happen. Cassandra Cain can read Wolverine's body, meaning that she most likely will not get hit simply due to Wolverine having to deal with Slade, and his weapon more so than Cassandra Cain. Also noting Deathstroke's ability to use weapons, and explosions this match, it could easily burn Wolverine's skin off revealing his heart, which would make it an immediate target to someone like Slade who has superior tactical ability. Slade could take the majority against Wolverine by himself due to his damage output, and has the capability of KO'ing Wolverine with a stab through the eye, or in the heart. He will figure this out because like Wolverine's consistent showings, he gets shot up all the time by fodder, he doesn't show any skill versus them either, so while Wolverine is treating Deathstroke like fodder, Deathstroke is learning about Wolverine's healing factor, and his bone structure. Wolverine won't know how skilled Deathstroke is until they go melee which might be awhile knowing Slade's ranged capabilities. Also I have no doubt Wolverine will be able to cut Promethium, but it will not be easy for the simple reason, slade's reaction time, by the time the claws make contact, the armor will greatly slow down the strike, allowing Deathstroke to either go with the cut, or to kick him back,, or even stab him in the heart. Which Deathstroke has a much better chance at stabbing Wolverine's heart than being dismembered, plus Cassandra will not be standing still, she is still capable of reading logans move's and kicking him 20 feet back if she see's him about to hurt Slade. Wolverine is not going to win this, since he is versing Deathstroke with superior tactical ability and measurable skill, and Cassandra Cain.

@cable_extreme: Your argument is not making much sense here. Wolverine does not have to fight Cassandra Cain and Deathstroke for an extended period of time. Cassandra is going to be dropped fairly quickly. Even with the body reading, James has skill and speed on par with her, and just needs one measly stab to end her for good. I honestly don't get the idea of stabbing Wolverine in the eye for the win. The sword is too damn big to fit in and just trying to stab him in the face is Deathstroke just asking to dismembered. Deathstroke is not going to be gaining an encyclopedic knowledge of Wolverine. Like I already told you, Wolverine has consistently used his skill against skilled opponents. The only way Wolverine will be treating anyone like fodder is if Cassandra and Deathstroke don't use their skill while they combat him and Daredevil, which will make it even easier to beat. It'll be easy to see the skill since Cassandra and Slade will have to get into melee combat. This particular environment is too congested to bomb away at range. If I have to explain this to you again, I'm just going to drop this debate. Slade's reaction time isn't in any way better than Wolverine's that if he gets his hand right in front of Wolverine's that James can't dismember him. The armor won't be slowing anything down. Wolverine has sliced through things much harder with ease. Wolverine wins this simply because Cassandra lacks both the damage output necessary and durability to be effective, letting James take her out fairly quickly into the fight, and James will beat Slade in melee due to superior damage output, superior marital talent, and the far, far superior healing factor.

Wolverine08Cable_Extreme

this is me right now watching you two debate

@godzilla44: Haha!

@wolverine08: Wolverine doesn't use his skill vs fodder, that part I hope you agree with me on. It is pretty much because he doesn't have to, but looking at Deathstroke, he will most likely think of him as a fodder ninja since he is usually leagues above most people. So he runs in and does what he usually does, but finds himself getting riddled by bullets, or even running into a blasting staff explosions. Deathstroke would then clearly be able to see his shiny bones due to skin being torn off and then healing back. Small stuff like that allows Deathstroke to rule out stuff like dismemberment, which he will then try to go for vital organs. He is one of DC's best tacticians out thinking people. Wolverine will also most likely not use his skill until he goes in melee with Deathstroke and realizes his skill, or gets pissed off from the blasting staff.

Deathstroke can land slashes with his sword (which does have a reach advantage), and after seeing Wolverine's bones and healing ability, that basically leave's the heart, or the brain (through the eye socket). He can accomplish this through many ways, either using other means to temporarily subdue Wolverine, as in an explosive, or blasting shot followed by a stab, or simply do it when he is in melee combat with him. Deathstroke has a bunch of equipment at his disposal to effectively use his superior tactical ability to win this fight, with or without Cassandra helping him. With Cassandra, it is basically overkill. (Vs Wolverine that is).

And for this fight, Slade has superior damage output, better ranged capability, better tactical ability, equal skill, so I don't see Wolverine winning.

@cable_extreme: The problem with your argument about skill is that Wolverine has consistently used his skill against skilled opponents. The only way he'll be fighting without using his skill for an extended amount of time in melee is if Slade does not demonstrate the amount of skill to warrant Wolverine using his own, and I hope you are not trying to argue that Slade can win this by not using skill. Slade isn't going to be spamming explosives in melee against a skilled opponent, and this environment makes trying ranged combat hard. Even then, the argument that if Slade's sees part of Wolverine's body he'll figure out the complex inner workings of his adamantium skeleton is quite silly. He's not going to think that the metal bonded to James skeleton molecularly, and will just most likely think it's a slim coating. Slade does not have a reach advantage with his sword. Wolverine's claws are all 12 inches each, and he has six compared to Slade's one sword. Cassandra does not make this overkill by any means. She doesn't bring anywhere near the damage output to be effective against Wolverine, and with her lack of durability compared to James, she'll get dropped by one measly stab, and the chances of that are fairly high in melee combat.

@wolverine08: I never said Wolverine wasn't going to show skill for an extended amount of time, I am saying in the beginning he will not, he will do what he consistently does giving Slade time to attack him and figure out that conventional ways of winning won't work here, such as shooting him, or using explosives and seeing a metal bone structure. By that time, sure Wolverine would use skill either due to then being engaged in a melee fight, or getting mad at the blasting staff explosions.

Also, if Slade realizes that Wolverine heals and his sword isn't working very well on his bone's then I don't see any reason Slade wouldn't try to use his explosives. He is smart after all.

Also Wolverine's adamantium frame isn't all that complex, if you use an explosive and see that the bone structure (which is revealed) completely unscaved, that tells you something, especially someone like Deathstroke. He could rule out dismemberment, bullets ect.. and go for vital organs. He doesn't have to understand everything about Wolverine to go to that spot.

As for Cassandra Cain, in a 1 v 1 situation, sure she would lose to Wolverine, but in this case, if he focuses on her and stabs her, that gives Slade an easy opening. And she isn't helpless, her body reading will greatly help this fight, and Slade would probably end up using her as a distraction anyway.

@cable_extreme: Wolverine most likely won't use his skill during the first few moves of melee before seeing Slade's skill, not at all enough time for Slade to concoct this extremely complex plan surrounding Wolverine's abilities, and Slade will be then confronting someone in melee who has a ridiculously better healing factor, has a higher degree of martial talent, and can put more severe damage via his adamantium claws. Slade being smart isn't going to be leading to him immediately being able to break down Wolverine's skeleton which he knows nothing about. He's not going to be magically figure out that the bones are molecularly bonded to the adamantium, and thus can not be dismembered just by seeing a bit of the skeleton when the skin comes off a little, and like already mentioned, this environment isn't suited for trying to bomb away with the blast staff. Cassandra isn't "helpless", but she does not have the means to be very effective here. Her damage output is far below what is necessary to be something of a threat to Wolverine, and she needs to be stabbed only once to be ended which is likely in melee combat against someone just as skilled and fast as her, and Slade won't be using Cassandra as some elaborate distraction. There's nothing to suggest their teamwork is that great to pull off something like that.

@wolverine08: you are trying to make it sound like Slade has to completely understand wolverines bone structure to conclude to go for the heart. That is not true, when explosions do not work, and his bone structure doesn't even dent from the blast, then it is fairly easy to deduce that it would be better to try something else. Such as going for the heart which is an extremely common place to target with a sword.

Also in regaurds to your explaination with Cassandra Cain, she has more martial training than most people Wolverine has defeated. That would mean, almost all of Wolverines victories could be attributed to his durability, and bone structure rather than skill. For example, if Cassandra Cain is unable to do anything, then why take feats of Wolverine beating Iron Fist in a sparring match seriously if he had no chance I winning that match? Or fighting CA with a weakend healing factor, it could have been attributed to his superior stats and bone structure rather than pure skill. The arguement works both ways.

@cable_extreme: No, I am not trying to make it sound like Slade has to have a complete knowledge of Wolverine's bone structure. I'm just going against the idea that Slade is going to magically understand Wolverine from the beginning, and go for the heart. He isn't going to be spamming the blast staff in melee combat with how congested this battle area, and when he does start trying to for his chest, he still has to deal with someone who has an amount of martial skill superior to his, and can dismember given the chance.

And nice attempt to lowball Wolverine's skill if I say so myself, but it can be sadly easily debunked I'm afraid. His defeat over Iron Fist is legit because Danny didn't have to bypass Wolverine's durability to gain a victory there. He could have knocked James unto his back with a kick for a victory, or he could have pulled off what James did, and used a submission hold to smash him unto his back. The Captain America example you used is even worse given the circumstances around it. Wolverine for one does not have any particular stats that are better than Steve's besides durability. Steve could even arguably beat him out in terms of reaction time due to his enhanced brain letting him process things faster, and he definitely beats him out in pure running speed with him getting clocked at 60 MPH an hour on three occasions now. The fact that Wolverine's healing factor was borderline not working shows durability was not what won James the fight. It has been shown on multiple occasions now, that with the healing factor severely impaired, James' durability takes a massive plummet. In Enemy of State, when Wolverine was exhausted from fighting for days, Steve easily knocked him out with a shield bash. If anything, that fight was particularly in Steve's favor with how impaired was. Steve just got out skilled, handily. We can also determine that skill is a major player in Wolverine's wins since he actually has shown a massive amount of marital knowledge and training to gain his skill, unlike certain fighters like Deathstroke who beat up skilled fighters without ever showing that much marital talent, but if we want to continue lowballing, I can just point out that Cassandra has been physically superior to the high end fighters she's outskilled like Batman, Nightwing, Lady Shiva. Like you said, it goes both ways.

@wolverine08: you are the one that started the Lowballing first with Deathstroke's skill. You claimed a skill superiority with nothing backing it up. Plus, wolverines skeleton and healing factor will most of the time always be a factor in his fights. And by martial skill, wolverine has had times he used pressure points, but so has Deathstroke. deathstroke has also showed immense skill, perhaps even better showing since he takes on multiple skilled fighters at the same time without relying in his durability/healing.

And Cassandra Cain has beat Lady Shiva, I don't get your point, lady shiva has around the same speed/skill of Cassandra Cain.

Wolverine will not only be fighting someone with similar stats as Captain America (Cassandra Cain) who also has body reading, but Deathstroke who is faster, stronger, and smarter than she is with the means to beat Wolverine.

@cable_extreme: I didn't try to lowball Slade's skill, but if you need to lowball to win, you can just leave the debate, and I clearly backed up the idea that Wolverine is a better martial artist than Deathstroke by pointing out that he has shown far more explicit martial knowledge then him, and while Slade has used pressure points, Wolverine has applied them more(About three times now), and has shown greater technical knowledge with them in that he can induce pseudo aneurysms via pressure points, and even recently noted that he can kill/incapacitate almost every living creature via them, and went on to show his knowledge with them is sufficient enough to incapacitate aliens like Kid Gladiator. Cassandra having similar stats to Captain America does not mean she'll be effective at all against him when she does have a weapon that can cause Wolverine a good deal of trouble like Steve has with his shield, and only needs to be hit only once to be dropped unlike her partner Slade.

I am sorry, but knowing a pressure point technique does not mean greater skill. People like Batman, Daredevil, Elektra, ect... have utilized more pressure points but I wouldn't say they are as skilled, or any more skilled than Wolverine. That just means that Pressure points are more into their fighting style, and is usually to get past a super human's durability. It has no bearing on how skilled he is with his claws, and also Slade's pressure point knowledge for example made Zatanna unable to speak throwing up blood since he targeted her liver.

Nothing you have shown, or presented supports your claim of Wolverine having superior skill.

Now, I understand your point with Cassandra Cain, but that is only the case in a 1 v 1. I'll give you another example. If Wolverine goes for Slade, it allows Cassandra to use a nerve strike to momentarily slow down Wolverine to let Slade get in a good blow or two. And if Wolverine goes for a killing blow on Cassandra Cain, it leaves an opening for Slade. That is why it is so hard for one person to beat two people of around equal skill and stats.