#1 Posted by Inconvenient_Truth (2362 posts) - - Show Bio

in character

no prep

Start off 1 mile away

standard gear

BP has 5 vibranium daggers, claws and staff

Peter as spidey

Other than that, most recent versions of all characters

#2 Posted by Inconvenient_Truth (2362 posts) - - Show Bio

who do you got

#3 Posted by Park (2976 posts) - - Show Bio

Team claw mostly due to Daken's pheromones.

#4 Posted by Inconvenient_Truth (2362 posts) - - Show Bio

hmm i thought team 2 would be the favorite here

#5 Posted by schillenger420 (821 posts) - - Show Bio

If Spidey was morals off I could argue that he could solo. Since everyones in character he's going to mess around and not fight to his full ability. Without a serious Parker (in character, unless his family is threatened or killed he's never serious) this is going to be real tough for team 2. I kinda hate to say it but without Parker being brutal I don't see how Team two takes this due to Team Claw's healing abilities. Team 1 ftw.... unfortunately.

#6 Posted by Inconvenient_Truth (2362 posts) - - Show Bio

If Spidey was morals off I could argue that he could solo. Since everyones in character he's going to mess around and not fight to his full ability. Without a serious Parker (in character, unless his family is threatened or killed he's never serious) this is going to be real tough for team 2. I kinda hate to say it but without Parker being brutal I don't see how Team two takes this due to Team Claw's healing abilities. Team 1 ftw.... unfortunately.

maybe but at some point when youre team is getting killed or youre about to get killed, the switch flips. he's not going to be playing around the entire time here.

#7 Posted by TifaLockhart (14157 posts) - - Show Bio

Muramasa decapitation!

Online
#8 Posted by schillenger420 (821 posts) - - Show Bio

@inconvenient_truth: I agree but unless he's fighting full out from the jump Daken's pheromones would probably slow him down enough, so that by the time he get's serious he's too slow to effectively dodge all the attacks coming at him and goes down. Don't get me wrong, I WANT Spiderman to win.... I am after all a Spidey fanboy.... but I also consider myself to be honest..... and as written, following the rules per the op, I honestly don't think team 2 takes this.... sure they can win a fight or two, but the majority? Unlikely :( I will ask though.... where exactly is this fight taking place.... believe it or not that might make a difference.

#9 Edited by pooty (11715 posts) - - Show Bio

@park said:

Team claw mostly due to Daken's pheromones.

Spidey has used his spidey sense to overcome the pheromones and beat Daken. Not sure who would win this battle tho.

#10 Edited by schillenger420 (821 posts) - - Show Bio

@pooty: Really? Shoot that might change my outlook on this then.... any chance for a scan? I don't doubt you and I love what you said... but I'd like to see it, if only for some context.

#11 Posted by pooty (11715 posts) - - Show Bio
#12 Posted by schillenger420 (821 posts) - - Show Bio

@pooty: Right on, thank you sir.

#13 Posted by Zauberin (4358 posts) - - Show Bio

@park: I think you're wrong!

Okay, maybe not that belligerently, but I think team 2 could definitely take it, but that's assuming it's to death OR knock out and all those other things. Daken's pheromones, I think, definitely don't equal victory. We've seen him get beat up before. Black Panther totally handled Sabretooth in House of M, and Daredevil or Spider-man have the skill to not get handled by Wolverine and son (Spidey could win, I know for sure, but I've never been big on Daredevil enough to know what he can do, except that he's good). Also, if they're all "in character," I can't see Wolverine working well at all with Sabretooth, especially given the opponents. There'd have to be a pretty big reason for him to cooperate with his team, especially hoping for him to work effectively.

#14 Posted by God_Spawn (38293 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 2. The scenario is basically stacked in their favor. Teamwork will be favored by team 2. Daken doesn't exactly like Logan or Sabretooth. Wolverine and Sabretooth hate each other. And Logan would be willing to work with Daken at least because he loves him. I see none of the teams really sneaking up on each other here due to the enhanced senses and pre-cog. I see 1 or 2 of team 1 members getting webbed earlier in the fight, mainly Wolverine since he would be primary threat on team 1. Vibranium daggers will damage Logan's adamantium and cleave through both Daken and Sabretooth and current BP should be able to keep up with any 1 of them between his speed and skill. DD is also skilled and fast enough to at least hold off anyone on team for at least a brief period. And Spidey could beat anyone on team 1 via webbing or he can KO Sabretooth or Daken.

Moderator
#15 Posted by cfrehse (1005 posts) - - Show Bio

team 2 wins. They are physically superior because of bp recent upgrade plus i would argue dardevil has the best senses here. Team one has hunting senses but i'd take spidey sense and dd senses over theirs. Plus i always think that spidey is stronger and faster and more agile but he wouldn't engage them too directly . He can hang on walls 30 feet above them and take them down. I'd have spidey take wolverine bp take daken and dd hold of sabertooth

#16 Posted by HellionVulcan (3905 posts) - - Show Bio

Well most recent version of daken is dead isn't he ? but he is coming back as part of the four horsemen so that version of daken may just solo this potentially .

Team 2. The scenario is basically stacked in their favor. Teamwork will be favored by team 2. Daken doesn't exactly like Logan or Sabretooth. Wolverine and Sabretooth hate each other. And Logan would be willing to work with Daken at least because he loves him. I see none of the teams really sneaking up on each other here due to the enhanced senses and pre-cog. I see 1 or 2 of team 1 members getting webbed earlier in the fight, mainly Wolverine since he would be primary threat on team 1. Vibranium daggers will damage Logan's adamantium and cleave through both Daken and Sabretooth and current BP should be able to keep up with any 1 of them between his speed and skill. DD is also skilled and fast enough to at least hold off anyone on team for at least a brief period. And Spidey could beat anyone on team 1 via webbing or he can KO Sabretooth or Daken.

I don't see spidy ko'ing sabretooth or daken since daken can impact the way all members of team 2 fight with his pheromones hell spidy couldn't use his webbing on daken during their fight daken was avoiding it nor could spidy tag him even he said so .

The fight shouldn't have gone past the second page daken could of easily killed spider-man & he can do that to every one in this fight adding in his father & sabretooth makes this in teams 1 favor .

#17 Posted by God_Spawn (38293 posts) - - Show Bio

@hellionvulcan: Apocalypse Daken is irrelevant. And Spider-Man can KO both eventually. I have no idea why they wouldn't be able to eventually. And Daken has used his pheromones in only a handful of battles. They are basically a moot point in terms of overall use in the battle since Daken has used them about 3 times in battle. And now that Spider-Man has had previous run-ins with Daken he will know how to deal with them.

Moderator
#18 Posted by Zauberin (4358 posts) - - Show Bio

One more. Would Daken's pheromones likewise affect his allies in battle, if he was spraying them all over the place?

#19 Posted by dondave (38885 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 2

#20 Posted by pooty (11715 posts) - - Show Bio

@zauberin said:

One more. Would Daken's pheromones likewise affect his allies in battle, if he was spraying them all over the place?

Daken has used his pheromones in a room filled with people but only affected those he wanted affected.

#21 Edited by Veshark (9058 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 2, for various reasons stated above.

#22 Edited by pooty (11715 posts) - - Show Bio

@hellionvulcan: also they start a mile apart. that gives Spidey plenty of room to start webbing up the place before his team is close enough for Dakens pheromones to work. I think Team 2 ranged attacks give them an advantage.

#23 Edited by Zauberin (4358 posts) - - Show Bio

@pooty: Okay. Thanks for that.

I still side with team Spidey and them. And not just for bandwagon.

#24 Posted by NlGHTCRAWLER (2899 posts) - - Show Bio

Team one. If Spider-Man can get blood lusted then so can Wolverine AND Daken AND SABERTOOTH, all of whom are ruthless animals when pushed to the edge and have experience in this state of mind. Wolverine SOLOd and killed all of the X-Men in Old Man Logan when he wasn't holding back. I know Old Man Logan isn't exactly "current" Wolvy, but it shows what he is capable of. The only person I see giving team one trouble is Spider-Man. The weak link in team one is Sabertooth while the weak link in Team two is Daredevil, both of whom are very skilled and powerful. Blackpanther is extremely smart and capable, but I can see Daken taking him down easily and if not Wolverine would get em. Blackpanther does not have what it takes to take out both Daken and Wolverine. Spider-Man can take out Sabertooth easily and maybe even Daken right after, but if it's both Daken and Wolverine taking on Spider-Man then he is screwed and that's exactly what I see happening.

#25 Posted by Veshark (9058 posts) - - Show Bio

@nightcrawler

Daken/Wolverine will not even be able to penetrate BP's suit. The vibranium in Panther's suit robs the momentum of their attacks. And we've seen in past clashes between BP and Wolverine that BP is faster and more agile. In the Contest of Champions, when Logan was dead serious while BP just considered their match a game, Logan couldn't even tag him until BP grabs him first. Even Wolverine himself mentioned that BP was 'fast'. And assuming that BP's packing anti-metal claws, he can melt through Logan's adamantium claws and Daken's Murasama claws (does he still have these?).

Also this is present Black Panther with the King of the Dead upgrade. He has 'all the strength and wisdom' of every single Black Panther from the past, giving him an increase in stats and putting him at superhuman level (we see him tearing through a man in New Avengers #1). Daken will not be 'taking him down easily', and BP is not afraid to go lethal either - and Daken's healing factor isn't even as effective as his father's.

Also, if this is the most-recent version of the character, is BP wearing his modern suit? Because that baby is loaded with cloaking, teleportation, and force-fields.

#26 Edited by God_Spawn (38293 posts) - - Show Bio

@veshark: Logan is perfectly capable of tagging Panther when it comes down to it. And the vibranium can be cut as long as it is along the grain. Sabretooth did it without adamantium. No reason Daken and Wolverine can't either.

Moderator
#27 Posted by God_Spawn (38293 posts) - - Show Bio

@veshark: And Daken hasn't had the muramasa claws for awhile now. Wolverine beat him and cut them out and buried them. He just has his regular bone claws now.

Moderator
#28 Posted by Veshark (9058 posts) - - Show Bio

@veshark: Logan is perfectly capable of tagging Panther when it comes down to it. And the vibranium can be cut as long as it is along the grain. Sabretooth did it without adamantium. No reason Daken and Wolverine can't either.

I'm not saying that BP is 'so fast that Logan is entirely unable to tag him'. I was just using that one match as an example to illustrate that a serious Wolverine found difficulty in tagging a BP who in his own words - considered it 'a game'. It's an example of BP's speed and agility. As for the vibranium suit, granted Daken or Wolverine could stumble across it, so I'll give you that.

@veshark: And Daken hasn't had the muramasa claws for awhile now. Wolverine beat him and cut them out and buried them. He just has his regular bone claws now.

All the more to Panther's favor, then.

#29 Edited by God_Spawn (38293 posts) - - Show Bio

@veshark: Slashing is something they do. It's more than likely to happen if he had the suit, which I don't think he does here anyway since it says current and that would be King of the Dead T'Challa with his tech suit.

Moderator
#30 Posted by Veshark (9058 posts) - - Show Bio

@veshark: Slashing is something they do. It's more than likely to happen if he had the suit, which I don't think he does here anyway since it says current and that would be King of the Dead T'Challa with his tech suit.

I actually want to clarify that - assuming this is his current tech suit, it gives T'Challa a bunch of other gadgets to utilize. I assume that this current suit is also vibranium weave though, since I don't think he's had a suit that wasn't made of vibranium before?

#31 Posted by MonsterStomp (20296 posts) - - Show Bio

Team Two. Dare Devil is a weak link though, Spiderman makes up for it.

#32 Posted by God_Spawn (38293 posts) - - Show Bio

@veshark: I don't think his current suit isn't a vibranium weave from the looks of it. It seems to be made of nanites as I swear in New Avengers I've seen the mask reform and disappear in that fashion.

And he's had plenty of runs where he wasn't in a vibranium suit.

Moderator
#33 Edited by Veshark (9058 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn said:

@veshark: I don't think his current suit isn't a vibranium weave from the looks of it. It seems to be made of nanites as I swear in New Avengers I've seen the mask reform and disappear in that fashion.

And he's had plenty of runs where he wasn't in a vibranium suit.

It's all pure conjecture at this point - for all we know it could be vibranium nanites. I assume it's vibranium though, he could be wearing the same suit all this while, it could just be upgraded with the new tech. Only time will tell, I guess.

I wasn't sure about this, but memory does bring Man Without Fear to mind.

#34 Posted by New_World_Order (13516 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 2. The scenario is basically stacked in their favor. Teamwork will be favored by team 2. Daken doesn't exactly like Logan or Sabretooth. Wolverine and Sabretooth hate each other. And Logan would be willing to work with Daken at least because he loves him. I see none of the teams really sneaking up on each other here due to the enhanced senses and pre-cog. I see 1 or 2 of team 1 members getting webbed earlier in the fight, mainly Wolverine since he would be primary threat on team 1. Vibranium daggers will damage Logan's adamantium and cleave through both Daken and Sabretooth and current BP should be able to keep up with any 1 of them between his speed and skill. DD is also skilled and fast enough to at least hold off anyone on team for at least a brief period. And Spidey could beat anyone on team 1 via webbing or he can KO Sabretooth or Daken.

This.

#35 Posted by Park (2976 posts) - - Show Bio

@zauberin: I think I'm right!

Daken's pheromones may not allow him to tag spidey but it definitely throws off Peter's game, and with morals Spider-Man is likely to hold back a lot. Daken's pheromones have never been shown to affect a team performance and he seems to have pretty fine tuned control over the ability. While Daredevil might be hyper-sensitive and could certainly detect that something was up with Daken that doesn't mean he could do anything to stop it. And Daken messing with Daredevil's sense could leave the man without fear as helpless as a regular blind person would be against the claw team. Black Panther is probably team 2's best chance at victory here, especially if his suit could filter the air, but he couldn't fight all three.

#36 Edited by Zauberin (4358 posts) - - Show Bio

@park: I don't agree.

It could be argued that Spider-man or Black Panther are the best chance at victory, but whatever. Just because Spider-man is "in character," that's not cause to assume he's gonna flat out suck and not be effective. Apparently, we've seen him work around Daken's pheromones before, and knock the kid out. Even with his morals and such, he's the type to fool his foes and pull off really impressive feats of fancy. And, as someone said earlier, if he knows his team is about to have their lives taken, he's probably gonna pull on the reigns, if only just a bit, so he can keep them from dying, also with the knowledge that team 1 is a team filled with mutant healing advancements. He knows two out of three on the other team would kill his partners without a second thought, and that's a powerful motivator.

Which still brings up the question of why an in character Wolverine is working with them in the first place (and even should we say "just screw it, he's working with them," he's probably not out to kill team 2, because that's not who he is all the time in character). Either way, even before the time it takes them to cross that mile, team 2 will already be displaying better cooperation and tactical skill because they like each other, and will throughout the battle. Daredevil's radar sense will also tell him when the enemy is getting close before they do.

To deal with these pheromones, their best bet probably would be to take Daken out first. Either exactly in the way he did before, through incapacitation, or having Black Panther cut off his head or something. If his suit does filter the air (I don't know if it does or not, but it's apparently special in some way and you suggested that), that's gonna be much easier for him.

Sabretooth is maybe the weakest link in team 1, but I may be skewed by most of my recent sightings of him having him perform poorly. Either way, we've seen him get totally handled by Black Panther, easily. But I don't see team 2 (at the very least, not Panther, and maybe DD) going easy on any one of team 1 except maybe slightly Wolverine, who's a friend. Which still begs the question, once again, WHY IS WOLVERINE COOPERATING WITH TEAM 1?

Wolverine's the best of team 1, I think. But as I said before, he's probably not gonna be out for blood, and I'm feeling a little obsessive about why he's even working with them, as I don't in any way see him working to his full potential like if he was partnering with people he actually trusted and stuff. I know we've seen him with his son, but we also know his son hates him and they've fought on occasion, and he and Sabretooth hate each other to death. Yeah, this is really getting me, and I'm having a hard time thinking to the fullest with this obstacle in my way.

#37 Edited by Ironshinobi88 (1334 posts) - - Show Bio

i'm going with claw team

#38 Edited by God_Spawn (38293 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't get why people are so hung up on pheromones? In mid-battle, his accounts of using them add up to about 3 times. I believe one fight was with Cyber and he used them to escalate his heart condition so he had a heart attack. The other was against Spider-Man. And the 3rd was against Logan in their last fight and he was doing so because he was apparently scared and gave into the animal. Aside from that, his use against Skaar was pretty much ambiguous at best, since he seemed to make Skaar was calm after their first round then angry going into their second but there was absolutely no mention of his pheromone use in the fight. That is really the only other time someone can TRY to argue off of, but it doesn't amount to much. Based on his in character showings, Daken's usage of pheromones would be in 1 scenario, maybe 2 at best. Nothing that gives them any sort of tie-breaker or needed gap since the claw team isn't physically besting team 2.

Moderator