Wolverine & Captain America vs. Spider-Man & Daredevil

"@Xan said:

"@sevennames27 said:

"@Xan said:

"@MTS said:

"Spidey has enough skill to take down wolverine that's for sure, i don't know about puma and those guys ...i think he beat puma before actually got him arrested or something like that. Anywhoo i think spidey's agility speed and strength should be enough to at least KO wolverine for a bit. "

If WW Hulk was unable to do it afther he hit Logan in the face over and over again what makes you think Spiderman can ? WW Hulk can hold 2 tectonic plates togeder, spiderman has problems lifting a car :P. I gues this whas one of Logans better showings but still ... "

That fight was total PIS......... "

Why ? Its not the first time Logan fights gods, demons and the likes. Do try to find something better then PIS. "

Wolverine has become nothing but walking PIS, I though he was cool in the beginning, but now I have trouble reading comics with him in.

"

"@sevennames27 said:

"@Xan said:

"@sevennames27 said:

"@Xan said:

"@MTS said:

"Spidey has enough skill to take down wolverine that's for sure, i don't know about puma and those guys ...i think he beat puma before actually got him arrested or something like that. Anywhoo i think spidey's agility speed and strength should be enough to at least KO wolverine for a bit. "

If WW Hulk was unable to do it afther he hit Logan in the face over and over again what makes you think Spiderman can ? WW Hulk can hold 2 tectonic plates togeder, spiderman has problems lifting a car :P. I gues this whas one of Logans better showings but still ... "

That fight was total PIS......... "

Why ? Its not the first time Logan fights gods, demons and the likes. Do try to find something better then PIS. "

Wolverine has become nothing but walking PIS, I though he was cool in the beginning, but now I have trouble reading comics with him in.

"

Hmm from the look of things you don't even know what PIS is. If logan dose this things all the time then its not PIS. 
 
Let me quote castleking  from another topic :  "PIS is something a hero/villian does that is very unlikely  to happen in a second encounter. usually it is used to further the plot of the story making either the villain or hero fight below their consistent showing and giving them an ubsurd or unexplainable weakness........ " In  other words if a hero keeps doing something over and over again its not PIS. "

the only bad writing, i consistently see is writers ignore logan's vow and promises to go back to pure MA skill and stop being a brute and control the animal after he had the adamantium ripped out..
 
 
even before then, he wasnt that much of a novice or arrogant fighter that would make sloppy mistakes.
 
yet every new writer ignores that aspect of logan and show him losing his temper when the previous storyline he finally mastered a MA skill to stay focus and control the beast stay patient.
 

"the only bad writing, i consistently see is writers ignore logan's vow and promises to go back to pure MA skill and stop being a brute and control the animal after he had the adamantium ripped out..
 
 
even before then, he wasnt that much of a novice or arrogant fighter that would make sloppy mistakes.
 
yet every new writer ignores that aspect of logan and show him losing his temper when the previous storyline he finally mastered a MA skill to stay focus and control the beast stay patient.
 

"

@castleking said:

"spidey could possibly have his spidey sense overloaded in certain scenarios where logan had no problem.

I've never seen this happen. When has Spidey's Spider-Sense been overloaded?
 

Well it's not gonna happen in this fight lol  DD beats wolvie spidey beats cap the end.

"Well it's not gonna happen in this fight lol  DD beats wolvie spidey beats cap the end. "

nerve strikes dont work on logan and crushing his larynx was a one time PIS that never worked b4 , but DD some how canceled established history with his little stunt

"nerve strikes dont work on logan and crushing his larynx was a one time PIS that never worked b4 , but DD some how canceled established history with his little stunt "

in wolverines 1st limited series run 1st issue. logan fought shingen for the right of his daughter mariko.. 
 
shengin challenge him to a mock sword fight dual since he didnt consider logan worthy of a real sword and just an animal...
 
a couple of pages before that logan had bn poison with blow fish toxin slowing down his original lvl healing factor. 
 
both shengin and logan immediately engage in mock combat with logan being slower due to the poisoning. Shengin immediately started going for pure nerve strike one hit kill moves with the wooden sword.. logan tanked them all and kept fighting anyways realizing shengin meant to kill him in mock combat.
 
shengin a master swordsman and one of  marvel original masters struck logan repeatedly in the throat and neck with the wooden sword in fatal nerve attacks.. logan simply grind his teeth and kept fighting without injury.
 
shengin hit him at least 4x that i know for sure in the throat neck area. left and right then direct throat  trust and even managing to land a flying down trust hit on logan when he was down on the ground. 
 
none of those shots caused logan to gasp for air or  keep him from fighting or keep his healing factor from repairing the damage.
 
what DD did goes against logans mutant ability and durability that was established decades ago. 
 
DD is the only person who successfully ignored the characters history and power... that is called PIS.
somehow  logan was given a weakness he never possessed before in their battle.
 
their are also other examples then just  the  blunt force trauma nerve strike to the throat that logan has tanked in the past. logan has had his throat ripped out and fell in a river without being incapacitated by sabe he still fought and struggle to get out of the water.
 
gorgon stab him and pinned him to a wall and logan still was conscious and pulled out the sword and was talking. logan's rematch shingen used sword swipes to the throat/neck area and failed to slow down logan, X23 also sliced logans throat and failed to stop logan from fighting or registering the pain, Silver samurai has used his plasma sword cuts and attacked logan's neck and logan ignored it and tanked the attack..
 
their are also other high lvl MA fighters that have tried to throat shot logan with blunt force and failed. i have to look in my comic collection. the point is that what DD did shouldnt have happen ignoring logans character and ability and established comic lore.

" in wolverines 1st limited series run 1st issue. logan fought shingen for the right of his daughter mariko..   shengin challenge him to a mock seord fight dual since he didnt consider logan worthy of a real sword and just an animal...  a couple of pages before that logan had bn poison with blow fish toxin slowing down his original lvl healing factor.   both shengin and logan immediately engage in mock combat with logan being slower due to the poisoning. Shengin immediately started going for pure nerve strike one hit kill moves with the wooden sword.. logan tanked them all and kept fighting anyways realizing shengin meant to kill him in mock combat.  shengin a master swordsman and one of  marvel original masters struck logan repeatedly in the throat and neck with the wooden sword in fatal nerve attacks.. logan simply grind his teeth and kept fighting without injury.  shengin hit him at least 4x that i know for sure in the throat neck area. left and right then direct throat  trust and even managing to land a flying down trust hit on logan when he was down on the ground.   none of those shots caused logan to gasp for air or  keep his healing factor from repairing the damage.  what DD did goes against logans mutant ability and durability that was established decades ago.   DD is the only person who successfully ignored the characters history and power... that is called PIS. someone logan was given a weakness he never possessed before in their battle.  their are also other examples then just  the  blunt force trauma nerve strike to the throat that logan has tanked in the past. logan has had his throat ripped out and fell in a river without being incapacitated by sabe he still fought and struggle to get out of the water.  gorgon stab him and pinned him to a wall and logan still was conscious and pulled out the sword and was talking. logan's rematch shingen used sword swipes to the throat/neck area and failed to slow down logan, X23 also sliced logans throat and failed to stop logan from fighting or registering the pain, Silver samurai has used his plasma sword cuts and attacked logan's neck and logan ignored it and tanked the attack..  their are also other high lvl MA fighters that have tried to throat shot logan with blunt force and failed. i have to look in my comic collection. the point is that what DD did shouldnt have happen ignoring logans character and ability and established comic lore. "

it does it was shown repeatedly through his entire history and even a great example of one in a cross over with the famous vulcan nerve pinch.
 
again one of marvel's  master swordsmen and MA master that used repeated nerve shots failed to incapacitated a weaken poisoned logan with a single nerve attack to the throat and we are expected to believe that DD can do it. the narration doesnt show  or say it was even a nerve attack in DD's case. all it was, was a hard strike to the throat which makes it even worse since that would have even less of an effect since logan's HF would repair the crushed larynx immediately with his current healing factor.

" it does it was shown repeatedly through his entire history and even a great example of one in a cross over with the famous vulcan nerve pinch.  again one of marvel's  master swordsmen and MA master that used repeated nerve shots failed to incapacitated a weaken poisoned logan with a single nerve attack to the throat and we are expected to believe that DD can do it. the narration doesnt show  or say it was even a nerve attack in DD's case. all it was, was a hard strike to the throat which makes it even worse since that would have even less of an effect since logan's HF would repair the crushed larynx immediately with his current healing factor. "

i still go with team 2

thats cool nothing wrong with that.

" thats cool nothing wrong with that. "

all i ask at that you guys consider all the evidence of the character

" all i ask at that you guys consider all the evidence of the character "

@Vance Astro said:

There are several variables that go into this.Everyone who uses these type of attacks aren't at the same skill level.Secondly there is a difference between hitting pressure points,striking a specific imperfection in a characters body, and striking a nerve."A vulcan neck pinch" isn't like a DD two finger nerve pinch.DD's nerve pinch sends the signal to the brain to rest causing sleep.A vulcan neck pinch activates a reflex in the body causing blood loss to the brain which will knock you unconscious.

Out of curiosity, how do you know what a Vulcan Nerve Pinch (and it is 'Nerve' not "neck") does?  I've never heard that before about it.

After a bit of searching I was able to find this:

"

@Vance Astro said:

There are several variables that go into this.Everyone who uses these type of attacks aren't at the same skill level.Secondly there is a difference between hitting pressure points,striking a specific imperfection in a characters body, and striking a nerve."A vulcan neck pinch" isn't like a DD two finger nerve pinch.DD's nerve pinch sends the signal to the brain to rest causing sleep.A vulcan neck pinch activates a reflex in the body causing blood loss to the brain which will knock you unconscious.

Out of curiosity, how do you know what a Vulcan Nerve Pinch (and it is 'Nerve' not "neck") does?  I've never heard that before about it.

After a bit of searching I was able to find this:

"The Vulcan nerve pinch was a martial technique developed by the Vulcans. Likely related to neuropressure, it involved applying pressure near the base of the neck and nearly instantly rendered the target unconscious,often so fast that the target was unable to cry out, but not always"  
 
In at least some cases the results resembled an extreme trauma to the trapezius nerve bundle, as if the neuro-fibers had been ruptured.  
~from: memory alpha

"

also poor excuse on it being DD and thats why it worked.

" also poor excuse on it being DD and thats why it worked. "

"

their is no narration or thought bubbles saying that is what DD did or explaining it. that was just garth ennis BS. "

does that look like a pressure/nerve attack or simply a knife hand stab to the throat with extreme force behind it?
 
second question do you believe DD is more skilled then shingen in nerve strike and MA skills?

"

their is no narration or thought bubbles saying that is what DD did or explaining it. that was just garth ennis BS. "

" does that look like a pressure/nerve attack or simply a knife hand stab to the throat with extreme force behind it?  second question do you believe DD is more skilled then shingen in nerve strike and MA skills? "

sigh...... thats not what happen their at all... but if you believe that then you have to accept that it takes both spidey and DD to take on a pissed off logan too. since it happen in the series and even then one of them was one shotted by logan rather easily?

" sigh...... thats not what happen their at all... but if you believe that then you have to except that it takes both spidey and DD to take on a pissed off logan too. since it happen in the series and even then one of them was one shotted by logan rather easily? "

vance its bn depicted in the past same and similar attacks failing to work on logan. in garth ennis run it was the only time it worked in logan's entire history and logan was completely out of character as well screaming and panicking due to injury. 
 
so many things was wrong with that serious and depiction of its characters.
 
i also highly doubt  garth ennis knows more about wolverine then i do.

" vance its bn depicted in the past same and similar attacks failing to work on logan. in garth ennis run it was the only time it worked in logan's entire history and logan was completely out of character as well screaming and panicking due to injury.   so many things was wrong with that serious and depiction of its characters.  i also highly garth ennis knows more about wolverine then i do. "

" @castleking said:

" does that look like a pressure/nerve attack or simply a knife hand stab to the throat with extreme force behind it?  second question do you believe DD is more skilled then shingen in nerve strike and MA skills? "

1.What it looks like is of no significance.It's only speculation to what happened. 2.I don't think DD is more skilled than Shigen I think he's more experienced with fighting people like Wolverine.He also uses his radar sense for precision hits in most spots people either can't hit or don't know about it.Most people have weaknesses specific to their bodies.DD can find them. "

sigh......... okay lets say DD of all the ppl is capable of injuring logan due to radar sense focusing and finding a weakness where other high end marvel elite MA'ers who mastery is human anatomy one kill pressure points and in some cases specifically knowledgeable in logan's physiology cant,

lets also ignore the fact that DD is incapable of reading ppl with HF's bio rhythm and gets static like effect from them and relies using his senses indirectly to read such ppl like environment, wind, smell sound air pressure ect ect since he cant trust or predict their movements or emotions and other tale tell signs from their bodies directly.... its such interference that he is able to speculate if the person has a HF due to the static he gets from them.
 
lets say ignoring all that you think logan reaction was in character? even if he was gasping for air, he dropped his guard rolled on the ground.. 
 
when logan fought alongside death head II and tried to save tuck without hurting her. she also hit grabbed logan and crushed his larynx picked him up by the throat dropped his lump body and logan recovered in less then one panel from that point  of injury whenit was caused. logan was crawling toward tuck and healing keep in mind that both death head and logan had bn fighting raptures seconds before all possessing hulk lvl strength instant regeneration adaptive counter measure high tech wpnry and tuck herself had godlike stats and they were inside an inferno dimension with logan's original HF.
 
both DH2 and logan had bn put through hell prior to that moment. 
 
yet, you want ppl to believe what DD did wasnt PIS that he is capable of causing that much damage in one hit without  logan being weaken or ran through the gutter?
 

" @Vance Astro said:

" @castleking said:

" does that look like a pressure/nerve attack or simply a knife hand stab to the throat with extreme force behind it?  second question do you believe DD is more skilled then shingen in nerve strike and MA skills? "

1.What it looks like is of no significance.It's only speculation to what happened. 2.I don't think DD is more skilled than Shigen I think he's more experienced with fighting people like Wolverine.He also uses his radar sense for precision hits in most spots people either can't hit or don't know about it.Most people have weaknesses specific to their bodies.DD can find them. "

What's next DD doing the same to Hulk ? For me to not consider that PIS i need to see it happen again and from a diferent  writer if all posible :P   1 times shows that are as ridiculous like this are ususaly PIS.  Remember wolverine coming back from nothing more then his skeleton ? How is that compatabile with this :)) (that was PIS to but sure was funny as hell).  "

" sigh......... okay lets say DD of all the ppl is capable of injuring logan due to radar sense focusing and finding a weakness where other high end marvel elite MA'ers who mastery is human anatomy one kill pressure points and in some cases specifically knowledgeable in logan's physiology cant,

lets also ignore the fact that DD is incapable of reading ppl with HF's bio rhythm and gets static like effect from them and relies using his senses indirectly to read such ppl like environment, wind, smell sound air pressure ect ect since he cant trust or predict their movements or emotions and other tale tell signs from their bodies directly.... its such interference that he is able to speculate if the person has a HF due to the static he gets from them.
 
lets say ignoring all that you think logan reaction was in character? even if he was gasping for air, he dropped his guard rolled on the ground.. 
 
when logan fought alongside death head II and tried to save tuck without hurting her. she also hit grabbed logan and crushed his larynx picked him up by the throat dropped his lump body and logan recovered in less then one panel from that point  of injury whenit was caused. logan was crawling toward tuck and healing keep in mind that both death head and logan had bn fighting raptures seconds before all possessing hulk lvl strength instant regeneration adaptive counter measure high tech wpnry and tuck herself had godlike stats and they were inside an inferno dimension with logan's original HF.
 
both DH2 and logan had bn put through hell prior to that moment. 
 
yet, you want ppl to believe what DD did wasnt PIS that he is capable of causing that much damage in one hit without  logan being weaken or ran through the gutter?

Team 1

Spider-Man could probably take both Captain America(Bucky) and Wolverine.

NOBODY!!!!

Sup Vance

" Shh...Don't say those things out loud, castleking is going to have a seizure... "

" Sup Vance "

" @Nobody said:

" Sup Vance "

Awesome.You're back! "

" @Morpheus_ said:

" Shh...Don't say those things out loud, castleking is going to have a seizure... "

Castleking  still convince Wolverine beats Spider-Man? "

" @capall said:

" 
@castleking: again with the pis why are u ignoring the fact that peter has logan out classed in strength, speed, reflexes, agility, enhanced senses, long range attacks, only thing logan has an advantage over peter is his fighting skills and that just ain't good enough to win here      i'm tired of repeating myself so i'm done here at the end of the day you are entitled to your opinion and i respect that so we can agree to disagree "

His Spider-senses are also becoming increasingly overrated as the days progress. If his senses and reflexes are so sharp, why couldn't he prevent this from happening? :  "

" Spider-Man & DD FTW.Spider-Man owns Wolverine than they double team Cap. "

" @Vance Astro said:

" Spider-Man & DD FTW.Spider-Man owns Wolverine than they double team Cap. "

I beg to differ that Spiderman would beat Wolverine. I think if Wolverine gave every thing he got in terms of agility he could beat Spiderman. I mean, he could probably dodge webs that are thrown at him, and if Spidey came close to do hand to hand combat then Wolverine would of a really good chance of getting him. Plus if he does get some good punches off he can regenerate. It's really only because of the agility I think he'll win against Spiderman. But if he doesn't use the best he has for agility (which I think he'll be smart and will) then he has no chance. "

" @Vance Astro said:

" Spider-Man & DD FTW.Spider-Man owns Wolverine than they double team Cap. "

I beg to differ that Spiderman would beat Wolverine. I think if Wolverine gave every thing he got in terms of agility he could beat Spiderman. I mean, he could probably dodge webs that are thrown at him, and if Spidey came close to do hand to hand combat then Wolverine would of a really good chance of getting him. Plus if he does get some good punches off he can regenerate. It's really only because of the agility I think he'll win against Spiderman. But if he doesn't use the best he has for agility (which I think he'll be smart and will) then he has no chance. "