Logan has made a deal with Mephisto. In exchange for his healing factor back, he gave up his Adamantium (under the condition that his mutant won't develop any more with it removed) so Mephisto can use it to create an awesome fiddle to use in musical numbers and other competitions and such.
Logan, wanting a nice break from the X-Men, goes traveling around Africa. However, Sergei Kravenoff is also currently in Africa and learns that Logan is in the area. He views Logan as a worthy beast to hunt and goes after him.
Combatants:
vs
Location:
Rules
- Kraven has standard gear (poison knives, spears, nets, bolas, blow-dart gun etc)
- Wolverine is Bone Claw and has a Pre-Cornell mindset
- Kraven has a basic knowledge of Logan, which he acquired through studying him
- Logan starts aware he's being hunted, but not by who
- Kraven starts in a tree above Logan, with him in view
Wolverine still stomps. He is a more experienced fighter with a healing factor.
Logan also has more experience than Deadpool, but Wade can give him a good fight regardless. Kraven's still 70+ years old with a healing factor of his own that's good enough to shrug off a stab to the heart and survive a beating from the Hulk.
Kraven also has a comparable level of speed (tagging Spiderman level characters) and has the necessary weapons, skill and overall physicals to make this a competitive fight.
@comicstooge: to be fair, anti venom straight up impaled him on a spear and that seemed to stop him. Anyways, right now they are both essentially immortal and i would give wolverine the advantage.
This was taken from an answer I posted in the Kraven vs Sabretooth thread, but I feel alot of the points still hold merit :p
its more of a culmination of skill feats that he has from his classic days and now, Gear he has now and his stats. We've seen Kraven utilize adamantuim hooks against the Hulk recently, and even way back in Kraven's last hunt, he was using nets that were so strong that Spider-Man at full strength was second guessing whether he could break free of them. He's used powerful toxins that have slowed down guys with impressive healing factors like Venom, or moderate ones like Kaine. Stat wise he's taken full on punches from a desperate (although somewhat weakened) Peter Parker. Spider-Man has said that he needed to punch his hardest (I.e like he's punched the Hulk) to take him down. Post ressurection, he was the only one who was able even remotely touch a nigh Morals off Grim Hunt Peter Parker (he tagged him twice), while the rest of his family just got blitzed. He was moving so fast that Flash Thompson as Venom couldn't even see him, and had to rely on his instincts. He was man-handling Kaine, until the later let loose and one-shotted him (though the conext of this was that Kraven was holding back- he did want Kaine to kill him after-all), with Kaine even second guessing who was faster (I do think Kaine is faster, but it is still is a notable feat). Most impressively, he tanked blows from Gravage Hulk that sent him into the horizon (though that's more likely due to his curse), as well as being unaffected by frequent stabs to the heart. Skill wise, he's developed a whole fighting style dedicated to taking out Animals/People with Animalisitic fighting styles, and utilized pressure points on fast moving targets like Peter.
1. Wolverine is a better fighter than Creed and since his further mutation has be disabled, he's not going to be reverting to more animalistic tactics
2. On the otherhand, with three days of studying, Kraven would probably deduce that Wolverine has enhanced hearing, and use those sensory affecting Bongo drums that he used on Peter Parker. They worked on Standard Mooks and through Peter's own Spider-Sense to horribly disorentiate both. With Logan's senses, its probably going to have a very negative effect on him.
3. Basicially I think that Physicals are close enough. Wolverine has the skill advantage no doubt, but Kraven's gear and oppurtunity to study Logan swings things in his favor.
A very close fight to be sure, great job on the OP CS! I rate Wolverine as having the superior skill, physicals, damage soaking ability and superior healing factor whereas Kraven has the more versatile gear, environmental edge, prep time and element of surprise. So all in all it should be very close. Kraven's nets have been enough to give Spider-Man difficulty to tear through (even though some instances were in a weakened/drugged Spider-Man) and his poisons have even affected the Venom symbiote. Plus his marksmanship has tagged Spider-Man a couple of times before. The environment is perfectly suited to Kraven's own experiences thus giving him plenty of tactics to use on Logan
Of course, Logan is never to be underestimated. Kraven's skill may be on a good level but Logan is on a whole different tier. Enough to defeat every member of The Black Dragon Death Squad, outfight Captain America on 2 different occasions, overpower The Winter Soldier whilst tied up and use pressure points to incapacitate Gladiator's son who's at least close to a Class 100 being. Plus when Logan's taken as many beatings from the strongest in the Marvel Universe, even Kraven's blows may not be enough to put him down given Logan's superior damage soak ability. And whilst Kraven has given Spider-Man trouble and defeated Vermin (who it took Captain America and Spidey to put down) Logan has made Peter doubt his speed and fear for his life in a fight. So the Spider-Man comparison can fall a bit flat given how well Logan has done against Peter compared to Kraven.
Simply put, it depends how Kraven uses his study of Logan to win the battle. Disorientating drums, a barrage of poison darts or well placed traps could be used to incapacitate or KO Logan. But if Kraven allows himself to desire a close quarters fight with Logan, he's going to have major difficulty putting Logan down.
@lvenger Logan took those blows mostly due to his Adamantium skeleton. He doesn't have that here.
Ah fair point, I'll rectify my post now. It's easy to overlook the differences between Bone Claw and Adamantium Wolverine. I think Bone Claw heals faster and moves faster whereas Adamantium can tank blows better and keep going.
I'd give Wolverine a majority, but it's not a stomp by any means
Knew you'd like it, bro.
Reasons?
I mainly have to give it to Wolverine due to the his superior skill and now even more ridiculous healing factor that he is being granted with now that he has no adamantium skeleton. With regards to the skill, I don't have much to say. Kraven is indeed a great fighter and is actually ranked a 6/7 on his fighting skills, but Wolverine simply has a pretty decent technical edge over him. He has more documented training(Ogun, Silver Samurai, etc.), and better technical feats(Dropping class 100s with pressure points, etc.). Given the fact that Kraven and James have similar physicals, the superior skill means that he'll get more shots in at the end of the day, and he has better healing feats while bone claw(Tanking a nuclear bomb and not getting incapped, getting crushed entirely by a car and bouncing up in seconds, getting his body torn apart by adamantium bullets and not flinching) he'll be at an advantage in a slash out fight. Kraven is pretty much limited to stabbing Wolverine through the face or heart to get a win, and doing so with James giving him fatal damage is not going to be an easy task. Also, considering that Wolverine knows he's being hunted, he'll be on his guard, and using that skill to the fullest he can from the get go, so Kraven doesn't have much of a chance of getting a upperhand on James being lazily at the start of things. I'd also like to cover Kraven's prep and performances against Spiders. For one, he doesn't have "prep" here, but simply basic knowledge. Someone mentioned that he could attack Wolverine's enhanced senses with this knowledge, but I don't see that being so successful. I think people often forget that Wolverine along with the healing factor has a ridiculous pain tolerance. He's noted that he has phantom pains from injuries received months ago, but manages to hide them from his X-Men. He's had his ear drums blown apart by Grey Hulk's thunderclaps(Far more damage out than Kraven can do to Wolverine's sense) and still kept trucking. During the New Avengers fight with clone Thor, Wolverine got his body burned to the point where Spider-Man couldn't hold his body, and the only thing on his mind was still fighting. Cyclops blew off half his face during Schism, and he was still just focused on breaking Slim's face in half.
Kraven beats Spiders prepped because he knows them like the back of his hand. He's fought them for years and knows their ins and outs like he knows himself. He doesn't know Wolverine that well, he simply gets basic knowledge like healing factor and claws. There's also a lot of context around Kraven's performances against Spiders. Someone brought up the fact that he dominated Kaine recently, but Kaine was holding back to a ridiculous degree, he really didn't even want to fight, and one shotted Kravinoff when he wanted to. Heck, he even stalemated him while posioned when he actually wanted to fight, and if we even really want to go there, Wolverine himself holds back against the heroes he often picks up his skill feats from. He recently had a blatant chance to kill Captain America in AvX when he dodged a shield bash, cut his shield straps, and kicked him away in one move but didn't. He's pinned a pissed off Spider-Man three consecutive times during Fallen Son and didn't kill him, he held back against Daken during their Origins fight and still wrecked him. James also has pretty good performances against Spiders themselves, and he doesn't have massive knowledge on them like Kraven does when he fights them. He recently was holding back and still moved fast enough to cut out Scarlet Spider's stomach, stalemated Spider-Man whom wasn't holding back during their first encounter, and after the infamous Spock face plant, he got serious, and ended up getting Spock in a chokehold and could have killed him. So I'd say that Wolverine has just as impressive showings against Spiders as Kraven. It's not like bone claw is lacking in good skill feats either. This is the same bone claw Wolverine whom embarrassed Shang Chi in three pages, and absolutely wrecked a strength enhanced, adamantium laced Sabretooth all while self admittedly holding back.
So yeah, I'd say that a bone claw Wolverine taking this fight seriously has the tools to beat Kravne 6-7/10 after very hard fights. Kraven is running with the potential to beat Wolverine here, but I think Wolverine superior skill and healing factor coupled with the fact that he knows that he's facing a fairly formidable opponent gives him the necessary edge to prevail.
@lvenger: Just to add to that point, Spider-Man has had no problem KOing Deadpool before, who hasn't got an Adamantuim skeleton, and an even greater healing factor than Logan....
@lvenger: Just to add to that point, Spider-Man has had no problem KOing Deadpool before, who hasn't got an Adamantuim skeleton, and an even greater healing factor than Logan....
I can only remember one fight of Peter seriously KOing Deadpool off the top of my head. Wasn't Deadpool holding back whereas Spider-Man was fighting much more seriously because he thought Wade had killed a shop owner?
@lvenger: Just to add to that point, Spider-Man has had no problem KOing Deadpool before, who hasn't got an Adamantuim skeleton, and an even greater healing factor than Logan....
It's not really that important considering that Kraven brings stabbing, not blunt force damage to this fight.
Nice fight! I'd take Logan 5.1/10. Close fight. Kravens fought with Spidey, Kaine and an early Agent Venom. He has good feats but i feel Logan can still win this but barely
A very close fight to be sure, great job on the OP CS! I rate Wolverine as having the superior skill, physicals, damage soaking ability and superior healing factor whereas Kraven has the more versatile gear, environmental edge, prep time and element of surprise. So all in all it should be very close. Kraven's nets have been enough to give Spider-Man difficulty to tear through (even though some instances were in a weakened/drugged Spider-Man) and his poisons have even affected the Venom symbiote. Plus his marksmanship has tagged Spider-Man a couple of times before. The environment is perfectly suited to Kraven's own experiences thus giving him plenty of tactics to use on Logan
Of course, Logan is never to be underestimated. Kraven's skill may be on a good level but Logan is on a whole different tier. Enough to defeat every member of The Black Dragon Death Squad, outfight Captain America on 2 different occasions, overpower The Winter Soldier whilst tied up and use pressure points to incapacitate Gladiator's son who's at least close to a Class 100 being. Plus when Logan's taken as many beatings from the strongest in the Marvel Universe, even Kraven's blows may not be enough to put him down given Logan's superior damage soak ability. And whilst Kraven has given Spider-Man trouble and defeated Vermin (who it took Captain America and Spidey to put down) Logan has made Peter doubt his speed and fear for his life in a fight. So the Spider-Man comparison can fall a bit flat given how well Logan has done against Peter compared to Kraven.
Simply put, it depends how Kraven uses his study of Logan to win the battle. Disorientating drums, a barrage of poison darts or well placed traps could be used to incapacitate or KO Logan. But if Kraven allows himself to desire a close quarters fight with Logan, he's going to have major difficulty putting Logan down.
This was taken from an answer I posted in the Kraven vs Sabretooth thread, but I feel alot of the points still hold merit :p
its more of a culmination of skill feats that he has from his classic days and now, Gear he has now and his stats. We've seen Kraven utilize adamantuim hooks against the Hulk recently, and even way back in Kraven's last hunt, he was using nets that were so strong that Spider-Man at full strength was second guessing whether he could break free of them. He's used powerful toxins that have slowed down guys with impressive healing factors like Venom, or moderate ones like Kaine. Stat wise he's taken full on punches from a desperate (although somewhat weakened) Peter Parker. Spider-Man has said that he needed to punch his hardest (I.e like he's punched the Hulk) to take him down. Post ressurection, he was the only one who was able even remotely touch a nigh Morals off Grim Hunt Peter Parker (he tagged him twice), while the rest of his family just got blitzed. He was moving so fast that Flash Thompson as Venom couldn't even see him, and had to rely on his instincts. He was man-handling Kaine, until the later let loose and one-shotted him (though the conext of this was that Kraven was holding back- he did want Kaine to kill him after-all), with Kaine even second guessing who was faster (I do think Kaine is faster, but it is still is a notable feat). Most impressively, he tanked blows from Gravage Hulk that sent him into the horizon (though that's more likely due to his curse), as well as being unaffected by frequent stabs to the heart. Skill wise, he's developed a whole fighting style dedicated to taking out Animals/People with Animalisitic fighting styles, and utilized pressure points on fast moving targets like Peter.
1. Wolverine is a better fighter than Creed and since his further mutation has be disabled, he's not going to be reverting to more animalistic tactics
2. On the otherhand, with three days of studying, Kraven would probably deduce that Wolverine has enhanced hearing, and use those sensory affecting Bongo drums that he used on Peter Parker. They worked on Standard Mooks and through Peter's own Spider-Sense to horribly disorentiate both. With Logan's senses, its probably going to have a very negative effect on him.
3. Basicially I think that Physicals are close enough. Wolverine has the skill advantage no doubt, but Kraven's gear and oppurtunity to study Logan swings things in his favor.
@wolverine08: Yes it was me who mentioned the disorientating Bongo drums, but they don't cause pain, or damage anything. They just disorentiate you. Its entirely different from Wolverine's eardrums being attacked by Grey Hulks thunderclaps, it was the physical tramua which was causing Wolverine trouble and he fought through it, because he could heal through it. Those Bongo drums basicially bypassed Peter's Spider-Sense until he removed them. They bypass senses, rather than reducuing thier effieceny by damaging them. I would say that Peter's Spider-Sense is more potent at assessing potential threats than Wolverine's senses, respectively of course.
As oppossed to the Kaine incident, Kaine only One-Shotted Kraven because he is a Spider and only Spiders can kill him. Kaine was holding back, but so was Kraven, as he wanted Kaine to kill him. Its a bit of a moot point becasue Kaine not only hits far harder than Bone Claw Wolverine, but Wolverine doesn't have Spider-Powers last time I checked. Also Wolverine is going to be slashing at Kraven, not punching him, and Kraven has taken Spears from Flash as well a tendrils no problem. With Flashes far greater strength and the fact that Logan doesn't have Adamantuim, I would say that Logan slashing damage is inferior to what has been applied to Kraven before
Furthermore, I think its unfair to say Logan doesn't have experience fighting Spiders. He's been on the Avengers numerous times with Peter, sparred off against him numerous times, has fought Eddie Brock and Scarlet Spider. Yes he doesn't prep, but then again Logan doesn't really prep that often against anybody. If you want bring up the Scarlet Spider fight, by all means go ahead, but it was staged. I not saying Wolverine can't keep up with Kaine, but he was holding back as well, and as soon as he let the Other take control, he one-shotted Wolverine, in much the same way he did to Kraven >:)) . SpOck was taunting Wolverine, and showing inexperience with his Spider-Sense back then as well. I highly doubt Peter Parker would have got in a situation like that. I haven't read Fallen son in a while, but while Peter Parker was pissed off, you can't really tell me that it equates to Peter going against Kraven in even a standard set-up. Spider-Man was angry, but he knows Logan is a friend- hell it was Logan who convinved Peter to join up with him, Cage, Bucky and the others. He's not going to be gunning against him in a way he do against Kraven even while Morals on, and certainly not in the way he went up against Kraven in Grim Hunt. You also mention Peter being pinned thrice by Wolverine. Well in at least one of those incidences Peter quickly reversed Wolverine, before the rest of the team told them to stop f*cking around.
Sabretooth has been a well known jobber for quite sometime now, and Shang-Chi is a peak human with feats that simply don't compare to the top tier Martial artists of the Marvel Universe. With Logan's stat advantage, I would expect him to dispose of Shang-Chi fairly easily. Kraven would beat him too in a random encounter as well.
But here we have Kraven, with Physicals near on Par with Logan. Kraven has kept up with Spiders before, second Guessed Kaine as well, was the only one to even begin to Keep up with a Morals off Grim Hunt Spider-Man, a Spider-Man of such a mindset, Logan has never had the problem of facing. Heals from stabs wounds to the heart from guys who are physical equals to Kaine instantly (Remember Kaine stabbing Logan in the heart, downed him mind you). Wolverine in Bone claw form has had every bone in his body crushed by a truck and kept going. Hulk punched Kraven repeatedly and threw him into the horizon, and he didn't die. Kraven is certified two tonner, while Wolverine has feats which put at that level too. Both have enhanced senses, and slashing weaponry to bring to bear easily.
Wolverine is without doubt the better fighter. However, while that helps him, pressure points are probably not going to work on both sides due to thier healing factors. Wolverine will land more hits, but its not like he's going to completely outclass him. Still, even with Kraven's standard gear, I would give him a majority of around 6/10 in a tough fight.
But this OP not only give Kraven 3 days to study Logan, but basic knowlegde to boot. You said that isn't prep, well if it isn't, then I lunno what it. Kraven has had Peter dead to rights with various traps, which he has only avioded due to his Spider-Sense. Even if you say that Logan's senses are better than Peter's Spider-Sense, Logan is both Slower and less agile, so is more likely to fall afoul of them. He has gear which can direclty counter Logan. If he gets trapped in one of Kraven's nets, he is incapped, and Kraven moves in. What if Kraven employs the use of Adamantuim hooks, like he did against Gravage Hulk? I already mentioned what his drums can do.
Logan beating Kraven in a tough fight no prep is something I can agree with, but IMHO, I don't think Wolverine's skill edge (which is the only real advantage he has here), is going to brigde the gap of someone who is pretty much his equal, and has gear which can provide a direct counter to his quarry, which he has used against more nimble foes with greater danger awareness. Respectfully of course :P
@laflux: It's not prep. I should just leave it at "Kraven has basic knowledge". I added the "3 days studying" just because it's something Kraven does. I'll edit to make it clearer.
It's not really that important considering that Kraven brings stabbing, not blunt force damage to this fight.
I'm not saying it is. Lvenger mentioned that Logan tanked all of Spider-Man best blows in the Graveyard fight- so saying Kraven does well against Spiders doesn't make Wolverine look bad. Dondave said that it was because of his Adamantuim skeleton, and I added credit to his statement saying that Deadpool, who doesn't have an Adamantuim skeleton has been downed by Spider-Man before. If Bone Claw Wolverine tried to smile his way through a barrage of Spider-Man's best blows, like Deadpool, he wouldn't have a jaw to grin with :P
Got to show the other viners who's top of the street level food chain :P
I can only remember one fight of Peter seriously KOing Deadpool off the top of my head. Wasn't Deadpool holding back whereas Spider-Man was fighting much more seriously because he thought Wade had killed a shop owner?
You can't really hold back your natural durability though, can you. Not to mention Peter has danced around a Bloodlusted Wade without even trying and trying to get him to snap out of it. But you are right that Wade was holding back, and it wasn't Wade who killed the shop holder correct, it was Hit Monkey (I say this because I wanna make a hit monkey thread lol :P ).
@laflux: It's not prep. I should just leave it at "Kraven has basic knowledge". I added the "3 days studying" just because it's something Kraven does. I'll edit to make it clearer.
Its not Prep, but three days gives Kraven more than enough time to desciper his powers
Edit.
Reading the OP I know what you mean :)
Its even closer now, but I'll still go with Kraven, just to rustle @wolverine08's jimmies :P
@laflux: It's not prep. I should just leave it at "Kraven has basic knowledge". I added the "3 days studying" just because it's something Kraven does. I'll edit to make it clearer.
Its not Prep, but three days gives Kraven more than enough time to desciper his powers
Edit.
Reading the OP I know what you mean :)
Its even closer now, but I'll still go with Kraven, just to rustle @wolverine08's jimmies :P
Fair enough, man. :)
Glad I could make a match that really divides people.
Kraven's equipment is good when it comes to incapacitating an opponent. His poisons will not kill Wolverine but they will certainly affect him in some way and, although he may eventually break free, Logan could be caught in a net for a while. Sergei has taken on the likes on Spider-Man and Kaine so he shouldn't have a problem keeping up with his opponent so I give him the win.
@laflux: I'm just going to ignore your stuff revolving around Wolverine's performances against Spiders because you made good points around there, but I'm just going to be frank and say that Kraven fighting Spiders is ultimately not pertinent in relation to Wolverine. Spider-Man, Kaine, and Agent Venom don't have healing factors that could let them get their entire bodies crushed by trucks and get back up in seconds, Spiders are not among the best fighters in the Marvel Universe, neither Agent Venom nor Kaine's minds function at a rate comparable to that of an Olympic athlete completing a gold medal winning routine while beating four chess computers in their heads like Wolverine's mind does. Simply put, combating Wolverine is a completely different ball game from combating Spiders, and just because Kraven punks Spiders whom he knows like the back of his hand, does not mean he'll deftly handle a Wolverine whom he has only BASIC knowledge on. Honestly, I'd argue that Wolverine beating the crap out a Sabretooth whom was stronger, faster, more durable due to his adamantium skeleton and had a healing factor on par with Wolverine's through his skill(Which you don't think is enough for Wolverine to prevail) is more pertinent considering that Victor is most likely a little more physically potent than Kraven, was more durable, had a better healing factor, and comparable fighting skill to Kraven. I'd also add that Victor wasn't a jobber at this point and time. This was 1999. He was still a legit beast. Wolverine decisively beat him through the skill and healing factor. That fight shows that Wolverine's martial edge is actually a pretty big game changer here. The skill isn't the only advantage either. While I can accept that Kraven is fairly close to Wolverine healing wise, James is still better. Kraven doesn't any feats to match up with bone claw Wolverine doing this, does he?
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In a straight up fight, Wolverine has the superior skill to get more hits in, and Kraven's inferior healing factor means he will be at a disadvantage while both got at it with their piercing weapons. In regards to gear, I'll say it again, Wolverine can get past the drums. You said that Wolverine took Grey Hulk's thunderclaps because the healing factor healed away the pain, but that is not true. Wolverine has already blatantly noted that the healing factor does not stop pain and he simply has to power through it:
Fact of the matter is that when Grey Hulk blew up Wolverine's ear drums, he was both suffering massive pain and disorientation, but continued on, and he has better pain tolerance feats than Peter to boot, so I don't think Peter getting disoriented greatly by them means Wolverine can't get through them. I'll give you fair play about the nets, but again, Wolverine is almost as fast as Spiders in a majority of his showings, and he's vastly more skilled than the Spider to boot, so incapping Wolverine through the nets is not going to be easy for Kraven at all.
Hey, @super_soldier_xiii come back for this thread dude! Wolverine isn't fighting a Spider, but it is a dude who fights Spiders, so people are naturally impressed by him :D
@laflux:Spider-Man, Kaine, and Agent Venom don't have healing factors that could let them get their entire bodies crushed by trucks and get back up in seconds, Spiders are not among the best fighters in the Marvel Universe, neither Agent Venom nor Kaine's minds function at a rate comparable to that of an Olympic athlete completing a gold medal winning routine while beating four chess computers in their heads like Wolverine's mind does. Simply put, combating Wolverine is a completely different ball game from combating Spiders, and just because Kraven punks Spiders whom he knows like the back of his hand, does not mean he'll deftly handle a Wolverine whom he has only BASIC knowledge on.
Nope I never said that it did. You said Kaine one-shotted Kraven when he stopped holding back, I said that only happened because of the nature of the curse. I added the fact about Kaine one-shotting Wolverine to troll you.
I have no idea why you are bringing in the Truck feat like its impressive. Bone Claw Wolverine got hit by a truck and got all of his bones broken. Kraven even before his curse was taking blows from a drugged and crazed Spider-Man who was overturning speeding Trucks. No bones broken, Kraven was just exclaiming how Peter had the strength of many men.
No is arguing that Wolverine is a better fighter than Kaine or Spider-Man. I'm not even saying Kaine, Spider-Man or Flash lose to Kraven.
I used thier abilites objectively to say what Kraven can do to Wolverine with basic knowlegde and 3 days to study him (granted this isn't the OP anymore)
Wolverine's aviodence is not close to Peter's. Kraven's gear has damm near killed and trapped Peter mutliple times, and Peter has only escaped due to his SS. He's caught Spider-Man in nets which he admitted that at full strength he would struggle to get past. Wolverine has his enhanced senses, and his feats with detecting danger with them, are at best only as good as Peter (and I'm being generous here). See, Wolverine brain functions or supreme skill advantage have nought to do with anything there.
I only don't think anyone would be handling anyone deftly......
@laflux: Honestly, I'd argue that Wolverine beating the crap out a Sabretooth whom was stronger, faster, more durable due to his adamantium skeleton and had a healing factor on par with Wolverine's through his skill(Which you don't think is enough for Wolverine to prevail) is more pertinent considering that Victor is most likely a little more physically potent than Kraven, was more durable, had a better healing factor, and comparable fighting skill to Kraven. I'd also add that Victor wasn't a jobber at this point and time. This was 1999. He was still a legit beast. Wolverine decisively beat him through the skill and healing factor. That fight shows that Wolverine's martial edge is actually a pretty big game changer here.
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Fair point about Creed not jobbing, my bad. Still, the scenario is different. Sabretooth doesn't have gear. Creed being faster than Kraven is debatable to be honest. Adamantuim would have likely slowed Creed's healing factor. The durability edge isn't a game changer as Wolverine is not going to be punching Creed, and he still has the means to tax out his healing factor, via bleeding him out, it only really means that dismemeberment can't happen (And I'm not sure if Creed's ligaments were fortified like Logan's were). Creed was always able to cut through Bone claw Logan with his normal claws (Creed even said that Logan's bone claws cut through his skin almost as neatly as his adamantuim claws, so it isn't reasonable to assume that same would apply when we switch things over). I don't really no problem giving a strength edge to Creed, but I don't even see that as massive. Kraven's blows breaking the teeth and felling early Flash Thomspon Venom, who still had feats at the time of effortlessly One-Shotting Cap, and lifting the front end of a M1 Tank. Finally and my biggest point of contention is that Kraven has feats showing he is a considerably more skilled fighter than Creed. Kraven uses Nerve punches and even before becoming Superhuman, developed fighting styles specificially catered to take down animals stronger than himself. Saying Creed is comparable in skill to Kraven is downplaying the latter.
The skill isn't the only advantage either. While I can accept that Kraven is fairly close to Wolverine healing wise, James is still better. Kraven doesn't any feats to match up with bone claw Wolverine doing this, does he?
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In a straight up fight, Wolverine has the superior skill to get more hits in, and Kraven's inferior healing factor means he will be at a disadvantage while both got at it with their piercing weapons.
Fairly close? For the purposes of this battle I would say that there isn't really a difference. Its all very well showing Wolverine been caught in massive explosions, neither of those guys are going to be levelng that type of damage on one another. Kraven to my knowlegde hasn't been exposed to that type of damage, so using it as a benchmark to say that Wolverine is better healer is faulty IMO. What we can do is compare how Kraven tanks damage he has sustained to how Wolverine and other healers have tanked Damage.
1. Flash Thompson stabbed Kraven in the heart- twice. Flash Thompson is around the 20-30 ton level (if we look at his tank feat). Kraven shrugged it off. Kraven has been stabbed multiple times in the heart. He's shrugged it off.
2. Wolverine was Stabbed by Kaine in the heart. Kaine is around the 20-30 ton level as well. Wolverine was dropped. Yes Kaine had posion stingers (but so did the spears that Flash used IIRC, and even so, Wolverine has immunity- or large scale resistance to Posions anyway)
3. Gravage Hulk punched Kraven repeatedly and threw him into the horizon. He survived. Both X-23 and Daken, who have healing factors comparable to their dad, have taken a massive throw from WWH (In X-23's case) with the result of only being K.O'ed, and Daken took a large scale beating from Thing while remaining conscience.
So we can see that already Kraven has the feats to keep up the high end showings of healers. If we want to extrapolate further, both X-23 and Daken has tanked building destroying explosions. I see no reason why Kraven couldn't either.
If Kraven is a slower healer than Wolverine, again its by an amount I think doesn't really make a difference to the outcome of the fight.
Fact of the matter is that when Grey Hulk blew up Wolverine's ear drums, he was both suffering massive pain and disorientation, but continued on, and he has better pain tolerance feats than Peter to boot, so I don't think Peter getting disoriented greatly by them means Wolverine can't get through them.
Maybe your misunderstanding me, or I didn't explain myself- but I will make it clear. The Pain is a moot point. Wolverine has great pain tolerance. Everyone knows that. The drums don't cause pain, they disorentiate you, and bypass your senses. Wolverine fighting Grey Hulk got disorentiated because his eardrums where damaged and he fought through the pain, and his drums eventually healed. Wolverine will feel no pain, because the drums don't damage your ears, but his orientation will be f"cked. They are a mystical drums. Of Course Peter has worse pain tolerance than Wolverine. My point was that the drums completely bypassed Peter's Spider-Sense to disorentate him, something that Writers still haven't come up with a valid explaination of how it works, something which as of Marvel Knights, seemed to be Pre-Cog. Something which Iron Fist has described as Low grade Telepathy. I don't really see why they wouldn't bypass Wolverine senses to disorentiate him, espicially since they have disorentiated regular people's senses before.
No, his combat speed is almost as fast as Spiders. His natural (movement) speed is far below any Spider. When Logan can cover 2 miles in 5 seconds using Parkour, then we can re-open that debate. Of Course it is his skill that supplements his speed, to be able to compete with Spiders in Hand-2-Hand combat, but he is not nearly as agile, nor has a Spider-Sense to warn him of impending nets, which have still managed to catch Peter. Wolverine skill matters little when he's traversing through booby traps.
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