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#51 Posted by IcePrince_X (4865 posts) - - Show Bio

Okay enough snowballing...I have to read some comic book to come up with my take on this. Accounting both feats of this ladies, I will give it to witchblade: to the simple fact it can adjust its level of strength, in fact it can draw out energy to augment its power and its wielder. Sara is no longer the whiny wielder and is more comfortable using the blade. Remember she was able to create a fortress and this fortress is within her control.

Imagine she can build a fortress around her and Diana thus trapping WW. Also a piece of the witchblade can act by itself and attack Diana invidually.

#52 Posted by Crom-Cruach (8820 posts) - - Show Bio

@wyldsong said:

@crom_cruach: No, Jackie killed the Darkness. That is what is shown in the story, and Jackie used a weapon specifically made to kill the Darkness. Any theories to the contrary are just that, theories. Especially when there has not been any kind of hint or clue anywhere in the story that the entity survived. Until then, the point and the feat stands.

I'll take Jackie's track record at actually winning against the Darkness over one story seem from the perspectice of the wielders which are often proven wrong. Especially Jackie who is constantly getting screwed over by the Darkness.

Especially since the Darkness is a portion of the universe, believing it gone when the universe is more or less functional up until now makes no sense.

@wyldsong said:

@crom_cruach:

We can look at the strength feats of Jackie and Sara, and it could be pointed out that while their stories have not lead them to moving planets, what they do have shows it being effortless. I can show you Jackie tearing up military copters and tanks with ease, creating life, and doing things on a molecular level.

And superman constanty has mountain leveling strength, faster then speed of light movement and reaction, powers to ravage entire cities without much effort. Superman has constant feats far above anything Jackie has ever done and he can do it before Jackie can think. So no Jackie has never displayed a feat on the level of Superman

@wyldsong said:

@crom_cruach: I can show you a scene where we see the Angelus has the power to bust planets, and forge stars into weapons

Plot device moments, not powers the wielders themselves have this power at their disposal at all times. Again there is a difference between the abstract being suddenly going full on and the powers they constantly display.

That is the point. I'm the biggest Top Cow fan out there and have been a loyal reader from the start. But the higher end feats have to be put in context and them not being able to take on Superman level power under normal circumstances without any plot device walking in is no shame to them. Just acknowledging how their powers operate.

It's the same as the Spectre in DC, his powers fluctuate constantly and it's explained in universe. He only has as much power as the Presence allows him to have

#53 Edited by dondave (36583 posts) - - Show Bio

@wyldsong said:

@strider92 said:

@dondave: Yes Sara and Jackie both survived due to the Darkness and the Witchblade saving them so did their daughter hope (but for different reasons as shes some stupdily powerful hybrid thing). In order to set everything right Sara was going to kill Hope to bring everything back. This caused Jackie to flip the hell out and use the Darkness to recreate the Top Cow-verse so that Sara didn't have to kill his daughter.

That is a good point that only her and Jackie survived the universal wipe-out. One small point though, we find out later that Sara did in fact kill Hope, which explains why when Jackie rewrote things, Hope becomes a bit tweaked and has Darkness powers.

I disagree that they survived it own their own, Sara wondered why they were still alive until Jackie told her that they only survived because of their connection to Hope.

#54 Posted by Straynger (227 posts) - - Show Bio

WB has the potential to drop any abstract <. Doing so is another story.

This could really go either way.

#55 Edited by Givemefreedom (330 posts) - - Show Bio

WW

#56 Edited by Wyldsong (5442 posts) - - Show Bio

@crom_cruach:

I'll take Jackie's track record at actually winning against the Darkness over one story seem from the perspectice of the wielders which are often proven wrong. Especially Jackie who is constantly getting screwed over by the Darkness.

Especially since the Darkness is a portion of the universe, believing it gone when the universe is more or less functional up until now makes no sense.

Take it how you want, but until you can factually prove otherwise, when there again is no hint nor clue to even dissuade the notion, then you have nothing but theory, and an unprovable one at that. The feat stands whether you agree with it or not, because it happened.

Regardless of whether it makes sense to you, it happened. Yet, even in current stories, there is mention of time when the Darkness entity did not exist by the entities that came before it (of which the Darkness is a descendant).

And superman constanty has mountain leveling strength, faster then speed of light movement and reaction, powers to ravage entire cities without much effort. Superman has constant feats far above anything Jackie has ever done and he can do it before Jackie can think. So no Jackie has never displayed a feat on the level of Superman

The faster than light speed movement that is rarely used, since he is constantly hit by slower people, and this mountain leveling strength that sees little use in combat, else there would be a ton of dead bad guys in the DCU. Jackie can create life and manipulate the darkness down to the molecular level and challenged and beat an abstract. I guess we see things differently.

Plot device moments, not powers the wielders themselves have this power at their disposal at all times. Again there is a difference between the abstract being suddenly going full on and the powers they constantly display.

You mean the plot points that were all part of the story, and are actually displayed feats and showings as shown in the comics? Technically everything is a plot device moment to propel the story forward, such as Superman's speed and strength. I have seen nothing to disavow and ignore things of that nature, since these characters do wield the powers of abstract beings, and play in the powers of creation, which has been stated from the beginning, I would expect such issues to be touched upon from time to time.

That is the point. I'm the biggest Top Cow fan out there and have been a loyal reader from the start. But the higher end feats have to be put in context and them not being able to take on Superman level power under normal circumstances without any plot device walking in is no shame to them. Just acknowledging how their powers operate.

It's the same as the Spectre in DC, his powers fluctuate constantly and it's explained in universe. He only has as much power as the Presence allows him to have

It's great you are a Top Cow fan and all, but Jackie has fluctuated because he was never in agreement with the Darkness, but once he gained more control and the power could not be stripped, there was really very little fluctuation.

Sara? Her will is the only thing that keeps a bloodthirsty child of abstracts in check, and sometimes slips or lets it do its thing. I wouldn't expect to see it at the same level everytime, even though there is very little fluctuation on her part, and there has been some growth in her power/control.

The Angelus? She is not shown very often, but is pretty consistent when she is shown. Just because she doesn't blow up the Earth on a daily basis, the planet her host lives on, doesn't mean her powers should be discounted. It's not like she constantly blasts or tries to skewer baseline humans and fails at it.

So I am finding that I just plain disagree with your assessment of all things Top Cow. Because Top Cow chooses to keep things a little more grounded and low key storytelling wise, we should suddenly discount these characters and their showings?

#57 Posted by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@wyldsong: you are the one talking about consistency,WW has more than 2.000 reacfting to speeding bullets and more coming in all directions at once,sara is not tagging her ever,end of the story.

#58 Edited by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@wyldsong said:

@gokuwarrior said:

and the only way all those times you name could matter is if they happen more often than her easily doing things above super sonic speed,but no,WW hasn't been tagged thousands of times by slow characters,in the other hand,she has done things above super sonic speed,how many times?,well 60% of her whole feats catalogue,so what is consistent?,that WW>>>super sonic,supported by?,more than 2.000 feats,what is inconsistent?,WW tagged by slow characters,consistency is in WW's favor.

Consistent is something I expect to see every time she enters combat. Even 40% of the time (going based off of your 60%) is a large chunk of showings, which throws the whole consistent thing out of whack, which obviously, we don't even know the factuality of that number in of itself. 40% of the time is far too near that 50/50 split, which seems to say that she holds back on that speed, much like Supes.

Now, I am not arguing that overall she isn't faster. But she isn't an untaggable character by any means.

50% is the number of her speed feats(blocking,reacting,attacking at super speed),the other 50% is between her strength and durability feats,if you talk about how many times she has shown super reaction time compared to the times she's been tagged by slow characters then it's 85%(reacting/blocking at super speed),against 15%,this is because she has more reaction/blocking speed feats than strength and durability feats,you are the one talking about consistency,so i tell you that out of her 4.478 feats,WW has more than 2.000 reacting to speeding bullets and faster things coming in all directions at once,so sara is not tagging her ever.

#59 Posted by Wyldsong (5442 posts) - - Show Bio

@wyldsong: you are the one talking about consistency,WW has more than 2.000 reacfting to speeding bullets and more coming in all directions at once,sara is not tagging her ever,end of the story.

And yet for every 2000 bullets reflected she still manages to get tagged...

#60 Edited by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@wyldsong said:

@gokuwarrior said:

@wyldsong: you are the one talking about consistency,WW has more than 2.000 reacfting to speeding bullets and more coming in all directions at once,sara is not tagging her ever,end of the story.

And yet for every 2000 bullets reflected she still manages to get tagged...

which means getting tagged by slow characters is bad writting,you are suggestinbg that only the times where she gets tagged are valid?,that is lowballing,she has much more times reacting to fast attacks than times getting tagged so stop lowballing,poor sara will never tagg her,poor girl.

#61 Edited by Wyldsong (5442 posts) - - Show Bio

@wyldsong said:

@gokuwarrior said:

and the only way all those times you name could matter is if they happen more often than her easily doing things above super sonic speed,but no,WW hasn't been tagged thousands of times by slow characters,in the other hand,she has done things above super sonic speed,how many times?,well 60% of her whole feats catalogue,so what is consistent?,that WW>>>super sonic,supported by?,more than 2.000 feats,what is inconsistent?,WW tagged by slow characters,consistency is in WW's favor.

Consistent is something I expect to see every time she enters combat. Even 40% of the time (going based off of your 60%) is a large chunk of showings, which throws the whole consistent thing out of whack, which obviously, we don't even know the factuality of that number in of itself. 40% of the time is far too near that 50/50 split, which seems to say that she holds back on that speed, much like Supes.

Now, I am not arguing that overall she isn't faster. But she isn't an untaggable character by any means.

50% is the number of her speed feats(blocking,reacting,attacking at super speed),the other 50% is between her strength and durability feats,if you talk about how many times she has shown super reaction time compared to the times she's been tagged by slow characters then it's 85%(reacting/blocking at super speed),against 15%,this is because she has more reaction/blocking speed feats than strength and durability feats,you are the one talking about consistency,so i tell you that out of her 4.478 feats,WW has more than 2.000 reacting to speeding bullets and faster things coming in all directions at once,so sara is not tagging her ever.

Lol...such precise numbers, not sure I believe all of that, but whatever. Let's get some actual proof here to see if you can convert me, but it's going to be a long post.

Have fun with it=)

#62 Edited by Wyldsong (5442 posts) - - Show Bio

@gokuwarrior said:

@wyldsong said:

@gokuwarrior said:

@wyldsong: you are the one talking about consistency,WW has more than 2.000 reacfting to speeding bullets and more coming in all directions at once,sara is not tagging her ever,end of the story.

And yet for every 2000 bullets reflected she still manages to get tagged...

which means getting tagged by slow characters is bad writting,you are suggestinbg that only the times where she gets tagged are valid?,that is lowballing,she has much more times reacting to fast attacks than times getting tagged so stop lowballing,poor sara will never tagg her,poor girl.

Happens so much, guess the majority of her writers are just bad. Wonder how they manage to actually sell her books? Guess sex sells. Poor Wonder Woman, never recognized for her mind.

Good thing is, I don't have to lowball WW, many of her books do the job for me=)

#64 Edited by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@wyldsong said:

@gokuwarrior said:

@wyldsong said:

@gokuwarrior said:

@wyldsong: you are the one talking about consistency,WW has more than 2.000 reacfting to speeding bullets and more coming in all directions at once,sara is not tagging her ever,end of the story.

And yet for every 2000 bullets reflected she still manages to get tagged...

which means getting tagged by slow characters is bad writting,you are suggestinbg that only the times where she gets tagged are valid?,that is lowballing,she has much more times reacting to fast attacks than times getting tagged so stop lowballing,poor sara will never tagg her,poor girl.

Happens so much, guess the majority of her writers are just bad. Wonder how they manage to actually sell her books? Guess sex sells. Poor Wonder Woman, never recognized for her mind.

Good thing is, I don't have to lowball WW, many of her books do the job for me=)

it doesn't happen very often,prove me that it happens most of the time,you can't because most of the time she is shown reacting to speeding bullets,funny how you do such a pàthetic work at lowballing a character,and witchblade has no sex on it right?,looking like a slut is part of her mark so don't even try to shade wonder woman for her looks when most witchblade characters wear much less clothe.

#65 Edited by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

wonder woman.

#66 Edited by Wyldsong (5442 posts) - - Show Bio

@gokuwarrior: Let's dispense with the witty repartee, because with you starting to throw in terms such as "pathetic" and "poor, poor such and such", and then jumping into using the word "slut" based on a bit of humor, I can see that you are far too involved in this, and while it was an amusing diversion to begin with, I am going to back my tone down, since I have no interest to fan the flames, and continue a discussion down this path.

The fact is, WW has awesome displays of strength and speed, but has displays of getting tagged by far slower, because this strength and speed is not used consistently in every showing (if it were, there would be no low showings). Now, if you want to convert me to your way of thinking, then feel free, but it will take a lot, since I personally don't subscribe to a one hit superstrength speedblitz from most DC types, since it just isn't standard operating procedure, and would leave a lot of dead people in the DCU.

As for this mocking tone, and poor, poor Sara never being able to hit WW, again, I just don't subscribe to this vision of an unhittable WW, when it can be proven she can be hit. I also, again, never stated a winner for this fight, so let's drop the "poor, poor" act.

Right now, I am the midst of life, and a little scan prep for a CaV and respect thread coming up. My plans are to delve fully into Witchblade when I am done (I have read everything written, but over the years, the memory fades), and work up a good list of feats and showings, and try and pinpoint the Witchblade's actual speed (not Sara, since it can and does act independently of her) and see where I feel she ranks. Then I plan on fully revisiting this and other topics for a hearty discussion.

So, take all of that as you will, but let's drop the mocking type stuff.

#67 Edited by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@wyldsong: i know sara won't tag WW because WW most common feat is reacting to bullets,she can be hit by slower things only with the help of bad writtin,when mopre than 50 of your super power feats are speed feats then nit's very consistent that she reacts very,very fast,you can't come here saying that she is consistently hit by slow characters whenb in reallity more than 2.000 of her 4.478 appearances have her reacting to super fast attacks,i don't know what you want to suggest here,WW is very fast consistenly,this is how she is portrayed most of the time so it's in her character,reacting to speeding bullets happens far vtoo often to ignore it and pretend that slow characters tagging her is consistent,it is not,and we go by consistency,now if you want to use her bad writting moments,those are the ones that are inconsistent because they don't happen regularly compared to how she is portryed most of the time,but tell me what you want,if you wajnt her inconsistent moments thn i will use sara's as well and make this a fair game.

#68 Edited by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@iceprince_x said:

Okay enough snowballing...I have to read some comic book to come up with my take on this. Accounting both feats of this ladies, I will give it to witchblade: to the simple fact it can adjust its level of strength, in fact it can draw out energy to augment its power and its wielder. Sara is no longer the whiny wielder and is more comfortable using the blade. Remember she was able to create a fortress and this fortress is within her control.

Imagine she can build a fortress around her and Diana thus trapping WW. Also a piece of the witchblade can act by itself and attack Diana invidually.

wonder woman beats her in all the stast,her feats>>>witchblade feats.

#69 Posted by GhostRavage (8855 posts) - - Show Bio

Typical "Speed/Strength is all that matters"... So boring and amateurish.

#70 Edited by Wyldsong (5442 posts) - - Show Bio

@gokuwarrior: Feel free to use any inconsistent moment you like of Sara's, but it does very little to prove your point to me. So please, drag every low point that you want to, throw it out, lay it bare to the world. Yet it does nothing to disprove the notion that WW is unhittable here.

I can full well explain a great deal of Sara's inconsistencies, having to reign in and try and keep control over a bloodthirsty child of abstracts and all...but Sara's low points does little to convince me of the one thing you passionately believe and are vehemently defending.

So let's stop treating this as if I said WW loses this fight, because I didn't. I said I don't subscribe to this vision of WW you are laying out. Now, if you want to try and convince me and convert my way of thinking, feel free. I'll give you a hint though, Sara's low points won't cover it, and you will have an uphill battle.

#71 Posted by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

Typical "Speed/Strength is all that matters"... So boring and amateurish.

it's all that matters when the opponent in this fight can't even fight at the speed of a bullet which is wonder woman's most common feat,she blocks them as easy as taking a nap.

#72 Posted by GhostRavage (8855 posts) - - Show Bio

@gokuwarrior: *sigh* Believe what you want, it is a free world anyways. Weak arguments nonetheless.

#73 Edited by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@wyldsong said:

@gokuwarrior: Feel free to use any inconsistent moment you like of Sara's, but it does very little to prove your point to me. So please, drag every low point that you want to, throw it out, lay it bare to the world. Yet it does nothing to disprove the notion that WW is unhittable here.

I can full well explain a great deal of Sara's inconsistencies, having to reign in and try and keep control over a bloodthirsty child of abstracts and all...but Sara's low points does little to convince me of the one thing you passionately believe and are vehemently defending.

So let's stop treating this as if I said WW loses this fight, because I didn't. I said I don't subscribe to this vision of WW you are laying out. Now, if you want to try and convince me and convert my way of thinking, feel free. I'll give you a hint though, Sara's low points won't cover it, and you will have an uphill battle.

then stop saying that WW can be hit by slow characters when most of her feats in her catalogue portray vher as a very fast beung,reacting to speeding bullets is her most common feat,more than half of her feat catalogue is realated to this,so slow characters tagging her is bad writtin,more than 2.000 speed feats prove it.

and many of WW's inconsistencies can also be explained since she has been temporally depowered at different points through the years for different reasons.

#74 Posted by Wyldsong (5442 posts) - - Show Bio

then stop saying that WW can be hit by slow characters when most of her feats in her catalogue portray vher as a very fast beung,reacting to speeding bullets is her most common feat,more than half of her feat catalogue is realated to this,so slow characters tagging her is bad writtin,more than 2.000 speed feats prove it.

I'll stop saying it when it stops happening in the canon material.

#75 Edited by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghostravage said:

@gokuwarrior: *sigh* Believe what you want, it is a free world anyways. Weak arguments nonetheless.

weak argumen the other user lowballing WW,that is a weak argument.

#76 Edited by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@wyldsong said:

@gokuwarrior said:

then stop saying that WW can be hit by slow characters when most of her feats in her catalogue portray vher as a very fast beung,reacting to speeding bullets is her most common feat,more than half of her feat catalogue is realated to this,so slow characters tagging her is bad writtin,more than 2.000 speed feats prove it.

I'll stop saying it when it stops happening in the canon material.

again,her consistent feats portray her as being very fast,that is how she has been portrayed 80% bof the time in her career considering her more than 2.000 speed feats,whqat happens the most is the consistency in a character's capabilities.

#77 Edited by Wyldsong (5442 posts) - - Show Bio

@gokuwarrior said:

@wyldsong said:

@gokuwarrior said:

then stop saying that WW can be hit by slow characters when most of her feats in her catalogue portray vher as a very fast beung,reacting to speeding bullets is her most common feat,more than half of her feat catalogue is realated to this,so slow characters tagging her is bad writtin,more than 2.000 speed feats prove it.

I'll stop saying it when it stops happening in the canon material.

again,her consistent feats portray her as being very fast.

Sure they do.

#78 Edited by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@wyldsong said:

@gokuwarrior said:

@wyldsong said:

@gokuwarrior said:

then stop saying that WW can be hit by slow characters when most of her feats in her catalogue portray vher as a very fast beung,reacting to speeding bullets is her most common feat,more than half of her feat catalogue is realated to this,so slow characters tagging her is bad writtin,more than 2.000 speed feats prove it.

I'll stop saying it when it stops happening in the canon material.

again,her consistent feats portray her as being very fast.

Sure they do.

yes they do,why do you try to deny it?,what happens the most is the consistency when it comes to a character's capabilities.

#79 Posted by GhostRavage (8855 posts) - - Show Bio

@gokuwarrior: Nobody is lowballing... Literally ALL speedsters have been tagged by slow characters, if anything, people is just pointing out you CAN'T claim every instance you don't like it's PIS, oh, look... Another weak argument. While the argument of Speed/Strength> anything is else is just as weak, tunnel visioned argument. I don't know much about either of the characters, but every time i see this argument, most of times the threads just go in circles with none of the sides conceding.

That being said, it is ALWAYS a pattern with you and Wonder Woman. Im out of this irrational problem childish problem, i was just speaking my mind out loud. Good day.

#80 Posted by Wyldsong (5442 posts) - - Show Bio

@wyldsong said:

@gokuwarrior said:

@wyldsong said:

@gokuwarrior said:

then stop saying that WW can be hit by slow characters when most of her feats in her catalogue portray vher as a very fast beung,reacting to speeding bullets is her most common feat,more than half of her feat catalogue is realated to this,so slow characters tagging her is bad writtin,more than 2.000 speed feats prove it.

I'll stop saying it when it stops happening in the canon material.

again,her consistent feats portray her as being very fast.

Sure they do.

yes they do,why do you try to deny it?,what happens the most is the consistency when it comes to a character's capabilities.

What? Where did I deny anything in that statement? Just said "sure they do"=)

#81 Posted by Wyldsong (5442 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghostravage: Yeah, it's probably for the best to discontinue the convo. He doesn't let things go very easily=)

#82 Edited by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghostravage said:

@gokuwarrior: Nobody is lowballing... Literally ALL speedsters have been tagged by slow characters, if anything, people is just pointing out you CAN'T claim every instance you don't like it's PIS, oh, look... Another weak argument. While the argument of Speed/Strength> anything is else is just as weak, tunnel visioned argument. I don't know much about either of the characters, but every time i see this argument, most of times the threads just go in circles with none of the sides conceding.

That being said, it is ALWAYS a pattern with you and Wonder Woman. Im out of this irrational problem childish problem, i was just speaking my mind out loud. Good day.

because it's PIS most of th time,except when the speeder is temporally depowered,the other ocassions are PIS because we go by consistency to determinate the truth capabilities of a character,so we need to base our oppinion based on what the character does very often,are you going to tell me that being very fast is not part of WW's character based on her catalogue of feats?,are you gonna tell me that if a slow character hits her without any explanation it is not PIS when she has more than 2.000 of feats reacting at super speed to debunk any posibility of a slow character tagging her randomly?,you nknow that consistency is everything to prove how a character works in battle,and reacting at super speed is WW's most common feat,nobody can say slow characters tagging her is valid when that is not consistent when you look at her speed feats resume that show how she is consistently portrayed.

#83 Posted by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@wyldsong: like i told the other user,we go by consistency to determinate the truth capabilities of a character,so we need to base our oppinion based on what the character does very often,are you going to tell me that being very fast is not part of WW's character based on her catalogue of feats?,are you gonna tell me that if a slow character hits her without any explanation it is not PIS when she has more than 2.000 of feats reacting at super speed to debunk any posibility of a slow character tagging her randomly?,you nknow that consistency is everything to prove how a character works in battle,and reacting at super speed is WW's most common feat,nobody can say slow characters tagging her is valid when that is not consistent when you look at her speed feats resume that show how she is consistently portrayed.

#84 Edited by Wyldsong (5442 posts) - - Show Bio
#85 Posted by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@wyldsong said:

@gokuwarrior: Sure, whatever you say bud.

you know very well that what i say is truth,consistency is everything to determinate what a character can or can't do,you won't see me saying WW is fastrer than light using her fight against zoom that was one fight,or her 2 fights against flash,i use consistent feats,what a character does regularly,which is the reason why i don't agree with yo saybf slow characters can tag her,her consistent feats debunk that theory.

#86 Posted by Wyldsong (5442 posts) - - Show Bio

@wyldsong said:

@gokuwarrior: Sure, whatever you say bud.

you know very well that what i say is truth,consistency is everything to determinate what a character can or can't do,you won't see me saying WW is fastrer than light using her fight against zoom that was one fight,or her 2 fights against flash,i use consistent feats,what a character does regularly,which is the reason why i don't agree with yo saybf slow characters can tag her,her consistent feats debunk that theory.

Do preach on.

#87 Edited by Wyldsong (5442 posts) - - Show Bio

I said I would be back after some research, and here I am. Alright, I'll just go on record and say it flat out: Sara with the Witchblade can possibly beat Wonder Woman.

One thing we have to get straight when discussing the Witchblade, is that it is less about the bearer (unless we need to know something about their specific skill set), and that it is mainly about the Witchblade, what it decides to do, and how it decides to adapt to a given situation. The Witchblade has a variety of powers and abilities it has used over the life of the series because it has always been shown to be an adaptable weapon.

Early on, you can clearly see it hit a foe it cannot hurt, then it waits, conserves itself, and then strikes with an attack that is able to break the foe down on a molecular level:

Here is another instance that spells it out:

And here, Sara even discusses how it learns and adapts:

It can adapt to hurt intangible beings (even ghosts) and even drain the immortality out of people:

With the Witchblade, Sara has been capable of tanking explosions and multi-story falls:

And we also need to remember that Witchblade can heal the bearer and has brought bearers back from the dead:

Also with the fact in mind that this is an in character battle, WW isn’t going to speed blitz anyone with her full speed and strength right off the bat. Between the durability, healing, and the ability of the Witchblade to adapt, I think she can take a few hits here.

We’ll also add that the Witchblade can and does increase the bearer’s stats if needed. It has allowed Sara to punch out a speeding semi-truck and keep her from getting crushed by two vehicles:

It amped her speed/agility/reaction, allowing her to dodge multi-directional gunfire:

Witchblade bearers have caught and blocked bullets with a Witchblade protected hand:

Not to mention the Witchblade itself has shown some speed, such as blocking automatic gunfire and so on:

Or keeping a swarm of demonic bugs from ever touching Sara:

Now, the point of showing those scans is not to say those specific feats are above anything Wonder Woman has done. What I am showing is that the Witchblade adapts, can enhance the users physical attributes, and can attack things on it's own and defend from things on it's own.

But, going back to the speed angle, and the idea of how Sara or the Witchblade will ever land a hit…well, I have shown where the Witchblade can and will amp a bearer's stats. This is where we need to realize that powers are not unique to bearers. These are all powers and showings of what the Witchblade can do. It can and has amped Sara’s stats to needed levels before. What I can prove here, is that it has the power to give the wielder levels of superspeed.

In Witchblade Takeru, through the first several issues, she never once displayed enhanced speed, because it just wasn’t needed for her battles. In one fight, when she needed the speed to dodge fast attacks over a wide area, the Witchblade gave her speed. When she wanted to reach some naval destroyers quickly, she was granted enough speed to run on water and reach the area quickly:

In the Witchblade anime, Masane in her battles displayed some blurred speed in her early battles and was able to produce sonic booms. When fighting more powerful foes, her speed was amped even more:

And yes, the manga and the anime are canon to the main Witchblade mythos (http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&old=1&id=10063). Those showings are valid showings of what the Witchblade can do to a bearer’s stats.

This item is nearly the penultimate plot device type item and has been used as such. That is one very consistent factor with the Witchblade, and the writers can tie it all up with a neat little bow with the adaptability angle, and it fits in perfectly with the idea of it being the child of two abstract powers. If this item can one shot naval destroyers, take out the Corruption Cataract and seal a rip in reality, eliminate what was termed by the writer as basically a fiery apocalypse world ending deity, attack from multiple directions at once and even attack foes Sara is not aware of, and do more (much, much more), then I see no reason why it can’t adapt to take out Wonder Woman here. It can increase the needed stats and adapt itself and the bearer as needed.

#88 Edited by senglord (1467 posts) - - Show Bio

Considering that Image defines their superheroes as having OP power with a bitter kicker; WW wins if the Witchblade starts playing games. Otherwise, Sara wins. WW has only the lasso to coax a release from Sara, offense will not work.

No one mentioned the golden lasso. WW's best weapon against an abstract aspects opponent.

I bump this to hear the dbate

#89 Posted by The_Titan_Lord (5241 posts) - - Show Bio

Witch Blade.

#90 Edited by Klaus (404 posts) - - Show Bio

WW

#91 Posted by IcePrince_X (4865 posts) - - Show Bio

witchblade

#92 Posted by hyperbertha (1300 posts) - - Show Bio

@wyldsong said:

I love the fact that speedblitz is always the go to answer for DC characters. Sure, nearly every DC character and their dog has some form of superspeed, but yet strangely it just isn't used all that often, and all these speedy characters get tagged quite often by types without superspeed. Speed means nothing if it isn't used or used properly. So, let's just say you, right now, go ahead and prove that the speedblitz is the go to for WW here. Let's see that in the majority of her in character battles, that she does in fact speedblitz all the time. Not on occasion, not for special reasons, but that it is standard operating combat procedure in her showings, that she doesn't pull a Supes most of the time and forget to use her speed or hold back. I know I have seen characters using far less than superspeed hit WW...so really, no chance of dealing with her speed?

While we are at it, lets see that she uses this planet pulling strength (even though you cannot possibly prove that she was pulling 1/3rd of the total weight, since there is nothing in that scene that states she was pulling 1/3rd...I can have three guys pulling a heavy object, it doesn't mean that they are all pulling an equal 1/3rds) at its fullest on the first attack every time. Now, I can draw you the parallels on strength levels (as in the Darkness has shown to have the strength to hurt pre-52 Superman level durability and the Witchblade competes with the Darkness in the strength department), and include the fact that no upper strength limit has been shown for the Witchblade, but she still has no answer for a weapon that can resurrect and heal its wielder, and can kill abstract powers. Not to mention the multitude of other powers the Witchblade has been shown to possess (time travel, Darkness powers, so on and so forth)....

And we can even go back to the fact that the Witchblade has allowed Sara to stand up to attacks from abstract powers...call me crazy, but it tends to give me some idea that maybe, just maybe she can take a shot or two here.

So let's be clear, I don't really care if the majority of the world thinks WW wins here. Personally, I need to go back through a lot of material to even begin to make up my own mind, but stronger and faster has been beaten before. I don't buy into this whole speedblitz argument unless you can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that a speedblitz with planet moving strength is in the standard modus operandi for WW here.

So true. Its a dc fanboy instawin BS when they can't think of any legit ways to win.

#93 Edited by Cable_Extreme (9080 posts) - - Show Bio

Such an ugly picture of Wonder Woman, anywho, Diana takes this.

#94 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

Witch Blade at full potential would wipe the floor of Diana.

@wyldsong: on a minor note. Witch Blade killed a evil Invincible, but it KOed her, same with Darkness. Also Witch Blade was KOed by Omega Spawn who powers is equal only to say Malbolgia, which is not that impressive :/

In the precognition of one Image character, he one shots them all.

The she is hard press against his Hell Forces and one shotted again.

#95 Posted by CheeseSticks (2449 posts) - - Show Bio

Witchblade easily.

#96 Edited by Wyldsong (5442 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2 said:

Witch Blade at full potential would wipe the floor of Diana.

@wyldsong: on a minor note. Witch Blade killed a evil Invincible, but it KOed her, same with Darkness. Also Witch Blade was KOed by Omega Spawn who powers is equal only to say Malbolgia, which is not that impressive :/

In the precognition of one Image character, he one shots them all.

The she is hard press against his Hell Forces and one shotted again.

Well, in that first set of scans, her eyes are still open. In that second one, getting taken down by a Spawn isn't what I would consider a low point, but without seeing what happened to everyone after that blast, was there a scene that we see her KO'ed?

By the way, what are these from, as I do not think I have those appearances, and I thought I had them all=(

#97 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@wyldsong said:

@cadencev2 said:

Witch Blade at full potential would wipe the floor of Diana.

@wyldsong: on a minor note. Witch Blade killed a evil Invincible, but it KOed her, same with Darkness. Also Witch Blade was KOed by Omega Spawn who powers is equal only to say Malbolgia, which is not that impressive :/

In the precognition of one Image character, he one shots them all.

The she is hard press against his Hell Forces and one shotted again.

Well, in that first set of scans, her eyes are still open. In that second one, getting taken down by a Spawn isn't what I would consider a low point, but without seeing what happened to everyone after that blast, was there a scene that we see her KO'ed?

By the way, what are these from, as I do not think I have those appearances, and I thought I had them all=(

In the first set of scans her eyes are open, but big deal, she was done after that fight as the next Panel showed spawn ruling all.

The Second scan had everyone pretty much beaten when Spawn showed up, she was losing to his Elite Demons in the second scan herself. Then all of them were pretty much one shoted in the end by Spawn's arrival. She was not dead or anything, but she was not part of the overall battle after that.

This is all from Image United 1-3.

#98 Posted by Wyldsong (5442 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: Gotcha. Need to go find those books...

#99 Edited by NeonGameWave (7712 posts) - - Show Bio

I am a huge fan of Top Cow, even their original works throughout even the Pilot movement as I am a massive fan of both the Witchblade, Darkness and Artifacts. I agree with @crom_cruach, I don`t think the users of the Artifacts themselves are abstract level characters who are actually abstract level are Eternity, Death, Cosmic Cube users and etc they`ve actually have shown those types of feats for foundation of proof on a consistent as well as reasonable basis. Jackie doesn`t even know his true potential yet and a lot of what has happened within his universe where The Darkness itself decides to so call demonstrate a certain showing of power is contextually once in the blue moon where its because of the story and not because of the character this can be further referenced to when Jackie was being taken over by The Darkness entity itself against his own free will to create Hope. His mind, thoughts and actions are not even being processed under his interest its by the entity that he can do what he can do also his imagination is what limits him also. Now the abstract wielders are powerful in their own right and they do efficiently work with what they have but they are nowhere near Abstract Level in the slightest. Now that has been cleared up, I think Sara would be able to win against Diana it will be a difficult challenge but I think the armor itself will use Sara accordingly to what Diana can do it will make up for what Sara might lack naturally but I also think Wonder Woman would be able to pull off a win as well. Now in terms of Jackie vs Superman, I think if it were to be really dark outside, Jackie would be able to own Superman even in his own zone because The Darkness entity itself is magical in nature or at least has a legitimate connection to the world of the supernatural especially how it is explicitly expressed in how it is able to deal with elements, creations and residents of the supernatural worlds.

#100 Posted by cyborgx (160 posts) - - Show Bio

Witchblade wins due to being far more Potent,and far more Versatile,Esp..In Diana's weaknesses