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#1 Posted by homicidalmaniac (7888 posts) - - Show Bio

Round 1

  • No Prep
  • Limited Knowledge
  • In-Character
  • Bloodlust Off
  • Pre-New 52 Wonder Woman
  • Standard Gear
  • Stand Distance Is 700 Yards
  • Win By KO/Death/BFR

Round 2

  • No Prep
  • Limited Knowledge
  • In-Character
  • Current Versions
  • Standard Gear
  • Bloodlust Off
  • Stand Distance Is 500 Yards
  • Win By KO/Death/BFR

Location

#2 Posted by homicidalmaniac (7888 posts) - - Show Bio
#3 Edited by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

if they are bloodlusted then they aren't in character.

wonder woman wins both rounds in a stomp,as far as i know,witchblade strength,speed and durability is not near WW's level even the new 52 version,so diana stomps both rounds.

#4 Edited by homicidalmaniac (7888 posts) - - Show Bio

@gokuwarrior said:

if they are bloodlusted then they aren't in character.

wonder woman wins both rounds in a stomp,as far as i know,witchblade strength,speed and durability is not near WW's level even the new 52 version,so diana stomps both rounds.

I clearly stated Bloodlust is off in the OP.How much do you know about Sara,Sara can kill the host of Abstracts beings like the Darkness.4500th Post

#5 Posted by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@gokuwarrior said:

if they are bloodlusted then they aren't in character.

wonder woman wins both rounds in a stomp,as far as i know,witchblade strength,speed and durability is not near WW's level even the new 52 version,so diana stomps both rounds.

I clearly stated Bloodlust is off in the OP.How much do you know about Sara,Sara can kill the host of Abstracts beings like the Darkness.

doesn't matter,we know that wonder woman's strength,speed and durability feats>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>what sara has shown in those areas,wonder woman's weapons are unbreakable and they have killed demonds and dark creatures instantly,they have killed gods as well,and in pre 52 version we also must add zeus lightnings.

#6 Posted by homicidalmaniac (7888 posts) - - Show Bio

@gokuwarrior: I'm not here to debate against you since I'm the maker of this thread.

#7 Posted by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@gokuwarrior: I'm not here to debate against you since I'm the maker of this thread.

i don't have a problem if you want to debate with me,i don't see how can sara win when her stats are way below WW and WW's weapons are better since they can't be broken and they range capabilities as well,and she can fly,and she speedblitz in character.

#8 Edited by Wyldsong (5675 posts) - - Show Bio

@gokuwarrior said:

@homicidalmaniac said:

@gokuwarrior: I'm not here to debate against you since I'm the maker of this thread.

i don't have a problem if you want to debate with me,i don't see how can sara win when her stats are way below WW and WW's weapons are better since they can't be broken and they range capabilities as well,and she can fly,and she speedblitz in character.

The Witchblade is the child of two abstract beings. It has the power to kill abstracts, and with it, Sara's strength is in the high tonnage range, enough to compete with the Darkness and the Angelus. It can heal her, resurrect her, has hit and killed intangible creatures, killed world ending gods, drained the immortality/magic out of people, allowed her to tank hits from people with superstrength (Angelus/Darkness), has range capabilities itself (energy blasts, tendrils, etc), allows Sara to fly, is resistant to magic, often reacts before she does, and much, much more.

Had I the time, I would add some good scans and such, but I am in the midst of something else at the moment. The Witchblade is a bad arse weapon, and should be more than capable of harming Wonder Woman. As for who wins the fight...I won't say at the moment, but after I finish my current project, I fully plan on putting something together to better educate people about the Witchblade.

#9 Edited by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@wyldsong said:

@gokuwarrior said:

@homicidalmaniac said:

@gokuwarrior: I'm not here to debate against you since I'm the maker of this thread.

i don't have a problem if you want to debate with me,i don't see how can sara win when her stats are way below WW and WW's weapons are better since they can't be broken and they range capabilities as well,and she can fly,and she speedblitz in character.

The Witchblade is the child of two abstract beings. It has the power to kill abstracts, and with it, Sara's strength is in the high tonnage range, enough to compete with the Darkness and the Angelus. It can heal her, resurrect her, has hit and killed intangible creatures, killed world ending gods, drained the immortality/magic out of people, allowed her to tank hits from people with superstrength (Angelus/Darkness), has range capabilities itself (energy blasts, tendrils, etc), allows Sara to fly, is resistant to magic, often reacts before she does, and much, much more.

Had I the time, I would add some good scans and such, but I am in the midst of something else at the moment. The Witchblade is a bad arse weapon, and should be more than capable of harming Wonder Woman. As for who wins the fight...I won't say at the moment, but after I finish my current project, I fully plan on putting something together to better educate people about the Witchblade.

show me feats that put sara in the strength class to lift a portion of the earth,move and fight faster than half the speed of light,better reflexes than superman,take nukes unharmed,hits from a bloodlusted superman,attacks from imperiex,zeus,etc like wonder woman has.

#10 Edited by Wyldsong (5675 posts) - - Show Bio

@gokuwarrior said:

show me feats that put sara in the strength class to lift a portion of the earth,move and fight faster than half the speed of light,better reflexes than superman,take nukes unharmed,hits from a bloodlusted superman,attacks from imperiex,zeus,etc like wonder woman has.

I think I said that I was in the middle of something right now, or else I would add some scans. I also said I personally have not picked a winner.

She can kill abstracts and gods, and can heal and resurrect. She has tanked hits from abstract powers and gods. Remain incredulous if you like, but again, when I am done working on something, I will possibly put together a little scan fest.

She doesn't have to have WW's strength, she has a weapon capable of killing abstracts and gods, should be more than enough to harm WW.

#11 Edited by RetconCrisis (4167 posts) - - Show Bio

WW's weakness is piercing weaponry. She's been hurt by spears, swords, and bullets (she only block bullets with the bracelets). Sara can easily make weapon constructs out of the Witchblade to hurt Diana. The thing is, Sara has everything that Diana is a weakness of - sharp, piercing weaponry.

#12 Posted by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@wyldsong said:

@gokuwarrior said:

show me feats that put sara in the strength class to lift a portion of the earth,move and fight faster than half the speed of light,better reflexes than superman,take nukes unharmed,hits from a bloodlusted superman,attacks from imperiex,zeus,etc like wonder woman has.

I think I said that I was in the middle of something right now, or else I would add some scans. I also said I personally have not picked a winner.

She can kill abstracts and gods, and can heal and resurrect. She has tanked hits from abstract powers and gods. Remain incredulous if you like, but again, when I am done working on something, I will possibly put together a little scan fest.

She doesn't have to have WW's strength, she has a weapon capable of killing abstracts and gods, should be more than enough to harm WW.

WW has killed gods and demonds as well,and WW is much stronger and faster,she has no chance to keep up with WW's speed.

#13 Posted by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

WW's weakness is piercing weaponry. She's been hurt by spears, swords, and bullets (she only block bullets with the bracelets). Sara can easily make weapon constructs out of the Witchblade to hurt Diana. The thing is, Sara has everything that Diana is a weakness of - sharp, piercing weaponry.

WW has killed gods and demonds as well,and WW is much stronger and faster,she has no chance to keep up with WW's speed.

#14 Edited by IcePrince_X (4865 posts) - - Show Bio

The Witchblade has the advantage if Sara plays it right...now if we say Bloodlusted witchblade its a different story...this means Witchblade takes over Sara's body and mind and all breaks lose... Witchblade will win this one and may even change host by bonding with Diana.

Th durability of the Witchblade always adjust to the level of threat it encounters thus, I think Sara has a chance.

#15 Edited by Wyldsong (5675 posts) - - Show Bio

@gokuwarrior said:

@wyldsong said:

@gokuwarrior said:

show me feats that put sara in the strength class to lift a portion of the earth,move and fight faster than half the speed of light,better reflexes than superman,take nukes unharmed,hits from a bloodlusted superman,attacks from imperiex,zeus,etc like wonder woman has.

I think I said that I was in the middle of something right now, or else I would add some scans. I also said I personally have not picked a winner.

She can kill abstracts and gods, and can heal and resurrect. She has tanked hits from abstract powers and gods. Remain incredulous if you like, but again, when I am done working on something, I will possibly put together a little scan fest.

She doesn't have to have WW's strength, she has a weapon capable of killing abstracts and gods, should be more than enough to harm WW.

WW has killed gods and demonds as well,and WW is much stronger and faster,she has no chance to keep up with WW's speed.

I love the fact that speedblitz is always the go to answer for DC characters. Sure, nearly every DC character and their dog has some form of superspeed, but yet strangely it just isn't used all that often, and all these speedy characters get tagged quite often by types without superspeed. Speed means nothing if it isn't used or used properly. So, let's just say you, right now, go ahead and prove that the speedblitz is the go to for WW here. Let's see that in the majority of her in character battles, that she does in fact speedblitz all the time. Not on occasion, not for special reasons, but that it is standard operating combat procedure in her showings, that she doesn't pull a Supes most of the time and forget to use her speed or hold back. I know I have seen characters using far less than superspeed hit WW...so really, no chance of dealing with her speed?

While we are at it, lets see that she uses this planet pulling strength (even though you cannot possibly prove that she was pulling 1/3rd of the total weight, since there is nothing in that scene that states she was pulling 1/3rd...I can have three guys pulling a heavy object, it doesn't mean that they are all pulling an equal 1/3rds) at its fullest on the first attack every time. Now, I can draw you the parallels on strength levels (as in the Darkness has shown to have the strength to hurt pre-52 Superman level durability and the Witchblade competes with the Darkness in the strength department), and include the fact that no upper strength limit has been shown for the Witchblade, but she still has no answer for a weapon that can resurrect and heal its wielder, and can kill abstract powers. Not to mention the multitude of other powers the Witchblade has been shown to possess (time travel, Darkness powers, so on and so forth)....

And we can even go back to the fact that the Witchblade has allowed Sara to stand up to attacks from abstract powers...call me crazy, but it tends to give me some idea that maybe, just maybe she can take a shot or two here.

So let's be clear, I don't really care if the majority of the world thinks WW wins here. Personally, I need to go back through a lot of material to even begin to make up my own mind, but stronger and faster has been beaten before. I don't buy into this whole speedblitz argument unless you can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that a speedblitz with planet moving strength is in the standard modus operandi for WW here.

#16 Edited by Carter_esque (6447 posts) - - Show Bio

WW

#17 Edited by Crom-Cruach (8898 posts) - - Show Bio

Wonder Woman would win. I'm saying this as the biggest and most loyal witchblade fan on this site. Sarah has never faced off against an opponent near the Wonder Woman or Superman range. Saying that the witchblade can kill abstracts is completely moot, because she has never killed an abstract and none of the artifact bearers are abstracts. some wielders just wield the power of abstract level beings

Even the most powerful of the artifacts wielders would get trounced by Superman or Wonderwoman. The darkness/superman cross over was total PIS and I'm saying this as a Darkness fan.

#18 Edited by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@wyldsong: LOL,and witchblade has no inconsistencies right?,characters with super speeed getting tagged by people without super speed is bad writting that happens for the sake of the plot,WW most common feat is blocking speeding bulles coming in all directions at once,she has been doing this since her debut,it's her most common feat,she has thousands and thousands of feats in her career doing that which means that is consistent and means that anything slower than an speeding bullet should never tag her,unless a writter water her down for the sake of a plot.

and about strength,she helped to move the mon twice,she helped to lift spectre,she lifted an asteroid bigger than a city by herself with ease,etc,so she has a lot of feats to put her strength way above sara.

#19 Edited by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

The Witchblade has the advantage if Sara plays it right...now if we say Bloodlusted witchblade its a different story...this means Witchblade takes over Sara's body and mind and all breaks lose... Witchblade will win this one and may even change host by bonding with Diana.

Th durability of the Witchblade always adjust to the level of threat it encounters thus, I think Sara has a chance.

wonder woman is much stronger,faster and durable than sara.

#20 Posted by Strider92 (16721 posts) - - Show Bio

The problem is the Witchblade to a certain extent is a walking plot device. For example it has the ability to put down abstracts like the Darkness and the Angelus (we saw Sara cut them both off from their power at the same time back in Artifacts) and the Witchblade being a sentitent abstract itself that always evolves or devolves to suit the target its fighting makes it hard to quantify. For example against a human that the Witchblade doesn't see as a threat it will put out the minimum amout of power possible but against a far more powerful threat it reacts accordingly by upping its power output as seen against enemies like the Angelus etc...
To sum it up the Witchblade is nigh impossible to debate with as it always levels the playing field between its bearer and the enemy. It has feats that put it at high tier street level but also at the level it can survive universe level destruction (again as seen in Artifacts).

If you are going purely off feats then its most likely a stalemate as Sara doesn't have the speed feats to condone her tagging Diana but at the same time Diana can't actually hurt Sara as 1. She isn't an Artifact (only Artifacts can put down other Artifacts) and 2. because if a universe buster couldn't take out the Witchblade what is Diana going to do?

If we are going off what the Witchblade should theorectically be capable of then the Witchblade should win as it will be on a level playing field with Diana plus all the blades and magical abilities.

#21 Edited by Wyldsong (5675 posts) - - Show Bio

@gokuwarrior said:

@wyldsong: LOL,and witchgblade has no inconsistencies right?,characters with super speeed getting tagged by people without super speed is bad writting that happens for the sake of the plot,WW most common feat is blocking speeding bulles coming in all directions at once,she has been doing this since her debut,it's her most common feat,she has thousands and thousands of feats in her career doing that which means that is consistent and means that anything slower than an speeding bullet should never tag her,unless a writter water her down for the sake of a plot.

and about strength,she helped to move the mon twice,she helped to lift spectre,she lifted an asteroid bigger than a city by herself with ease,etc,so she has a lot of feats to put her strength way above sara.

Never said the Witchblade didn't have any inconsistencies, but when it happens so much it is common place, then it is kind of hard to ignore. So sorry, but the speed point stands (and it can even be pointed out that the Witchblade has reacted to bullets after they have been fired to protect Sara's unarmored portions and is in fact, bullet proof itself), and the strength point is negligible to someone who can take hits from abstract powers.

#22 Edited by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@wyldsong: WW is not tagged by slow characters consistently,compared to thousands and thousands of feats blocking speeding bullets,lasers and even faster things coming in all directions at once,any ocassion with her getting tatgged by anything slower is the actual inconsistency.

#23 Edited by Wyldsong (5675 posts) - - Show Bio

@crom_cruach said:

Wonder Woman would win. I'm saying this as the biggest and most loyal witchblade fan on this site. Sarah has never faced off against an opponent near the Wonder Woman or Superman range. Saying that the witchblade can kill abstracts is completely moot, because she has never killed an abstract and none of the artifact bearers are abstracts. some wielders just wield the power of abstract level beings

Even the most powerful of the artifacts wielders would get trounced by Superman or Wonderwoman. The darkness/superman cross over was total PIS and I'm saying this as a Darkness fan.

Jackie has killed the main Darkness entity, and was told that he was basically taking its place. Jackie is now the one and only Darkness, and while the story has not fully explored the full extent of just what that means, we know that in current Witchblade stories, she has already ended the Darkness (there is no more Darkness currently and the story Darkness Falls coming out this year will tell the whole tale) and killed Jackie. The Witchblade has in fact ended an abstract.

Darkness/Superman crossover was written by Marz, who has an extensive history with Top Cow and DC, and as such has written Superman and the Darkness and has an extensive working knowledge of both. By his estimation, Jackie has the strength to actually hurt Superman, but Superman is in fact the stronger of the two (he confirmed this for me on twitter). Darkness would trounce Superman in a full out battle, because Supes cannot put the Darkness down, and has no answer for the Darkness being manipulated inside, especially considering he has not special resistance for supernatural powers such as Jackie's.

#24 Posted by dondave (38404 posts) - - Show Bio

@strider92: Did the Witchblade survive the destruction of the Universe on its own? I thought Jackie recreated it along everything else

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#25 Posted by Wyldsong (5675 posts) - - Show Bio

@wyldsong: WW is not tagged by slow characters consistently,compared to thousands and thousands of feats blocking speeding bullets,lasers and even faster things coming in all directions at once,any ocassion with her getting tatgged by anything slower is the actual inconsistency.

Then prove it. I have seen her get tagged numerous times. Prove me wrong that she has never gotten tagged by slower characters, but hey, you already stated there were inconsistencies yourself...

#26 Posted by IcePrince_X (4865 posts) - - Show Bio

Teaser...

#27 Edited by Strider92 (16721 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave: Yes Sara and Jackie both survived due to the Darkness and the Witchblade saving them so did their daughter hope (but for different reasons as shes some stupdily powerful hybrid thing). In order to set everything right Sara was going to kill Hope to bring everything back. This caused Jackie to flip the hell out and use the Darkness to recreate the Top Cow-verse so that Sara didn't have to kill his daughter.

#28 Edited by fiodestromus (1079 posts) - - Show Bio

Wonder Woman would win. I'm saying this as the biggest and most loyal witchblade fan on this site. Sarah has never faced off against an opponent near the Wonder Woman or Superman range. Saying that the witchblade can kill abstracts is completely moot, because she has never killed an abstract and none of the artifact bearers are abstracts. some wielders just wield the power of abstract level beings

Even the most powerful of the artifacts wielders would get trounced by Superman or Wonderwoman. The darkness/superman cross over was total PIS and I'm saying this as a Darkness fan.

But the Darkness is supposed to grant him the needed power to beat his foe.why the darkness giving him the power to contend with superman be PIS

#29 Edited by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@wyldsong said:

@gokuwarrior said:

@wyldsong: WW is not tagged by slow characters consistently,compared to thousands and thousands of feats blocking speeding bullets,lasers and even faster things coming in all directions at once,any ocassion with her getting tatgged by anything slower is the actual inconsistency.

Then prove it. I have seen her get tagged numerous times. Prove me wrong that she has never gotten tagged by slower characters, but hey, you already stated there were inconsistencies yourself...

i said she is not tagged by slow characters consistently,we say that what is consistent is considered what characters do when they are in character,wonder woman has been blocking speeding bullets and other type of proyectiles coming in all directions at once since 1941,having very fast reflexes is the common place for her,so for every ocassion you name where she was tagged by an slow character,i can debunk it by literally postong thousands and thousands of feats from her blocking speeding bullets and faster things coming in all directions at once,seriously WW has more feats involving super reaction time than strength feats,it's commom logic that being very fast to block very fast things coming at her is her signature style,there is no way that slow characters can tag her without the help of PIS because her signature style is being fast enough to rect against speeding bullets and more.

#30 Posted by fiodestromus (1079 posts) - - Show Bio

The problem is the Witchblade to a certain extent is a walking plot device. For example it has the ability to put down abstracts like the Darkness and the Angelus (we saw Sara cut them both off from their power at the same time back in Artifacts) and the Witchblade being a sentitent abstract itself that always evolves or devolves to suit the target its fighting makes it hard to quantify. For example against a human that the Witchblade doesn't see as a threat it will put out the minimum amout of power possible but against a far more powerful threat it reacts accordingly by upping its power output as seen against enemies like the Angelus etc...

To sum it up the Witchblade is nigh impossible to debate with as it always levels the playing field between its bearer and the enemy. It has feats that put it at high tier street level but also at the level it can survive universe level destruction (again as seen in Artifacts).

If you are going purely off feats then its most likely a stalemate as Sara doesn't have the speed feats to condone her tagging Diana but at the same time Diana can't actually hurt Sara as 1. She isn't an Artifact (only Artifacts can put down other Artifacts) and 2. because if a universe buster couldn't take out the Witchblade what is Diana going to do?

If we are going off what the Witchblade should theorectically be capable of then the Witchblade should win as it will be on a level playing field with Diana plus all the blades and magical abilities.

This

#31 Posted by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave: Yes Sara and Jackie both survived due to the Darkness and the Witchblade saving them so did their daughter hope (but for different reasons as shes some stupdily powerful hybrid thing). In order to set everything right Sara was going to kill Hope to bring everything back. This caused Jackie to flip the hell out and use the Darkness to recreate the Top Cow-verse so that Sara didn't have to kill his daughter.

if we go by consistent showings,then anything from super sonic or slower speed will never tag WW,and this is supported by WW's thousands and thousands of feats blocking speeding bullets and lasers coming in all directions at once as easy as taking a nap,so maybe you can explain that to the user "wyldsong"

#32 Edited by Wyldsong (5675 posts) - - Show Bio

@gokuwarrior said:

@wyldsong said:

@gokuwarrior said:

@wyldsong: WW is not tagged by slow characters consistently,compared to thousands and thousands of feats blocking speeding bullets,lasers and even faster things coming in all directions at once,any ocassion with her getting tatgged by anything slower is the actual inconsistency.

Then prove it. I have seen her get tagged numerous times. Prove me wrong that she has never gotten tagged by slower characters, but hey, you already stated there were inconsistencies yourself...

i said she is not tagged by slow characters consistently,we say that what is consistent is considered what characters do when they are in character,wonder woman has been blocking speeding bullets and other type of proyectiles coming in all directions at once since 1941,having very fast reflexes is the common place for her,so for every ocassion you name where she was tagged by an slow character,i can debunk it by literally postong thousands and thousands of feats from her blocking speeding bullets and faster things coming in all directions at once,seriously WW has more feats involving super reaction time than strength feats,it's commom logic that being very fast to block very fast things coming at her is her signature style,there is no way that slow characters can tag her without the help of PIS because her signature style is being fast enough to rect against speeding bullets and more.

And wow, the Witchblade can do just that (the underlined)...shocking, I know. I have seen bullet blockers, timers and dodgers get tagged consistently by slower foes, so trying to debunk it all by using bullet blocking feats really proves very little.

#33 Posted by dondave (38404 posts) - - Show Bio

@iceprince_x: That's Wonder Woman wearing the Witchblade. What' point are you trying to get across?

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#34 Posted by Wyldsong (5675 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave said:

@iceprince_x: That's Wonder Woman wearing the Witchblade. What' point are you trying to get across?

I think he is trying to say that the Witchblade will leave Sara and take over WW like it did in the crossover.

#35 Posted by Wyldsong (5675 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave: Yes Sara and Jackie both survived due to the Darkness and the Witchblade saving them so did their daughter hope (but for different reasons as shes some stupdily powerful hybrid thing). In order to set everything right Sara was going to kill Hope to bring everything back. This caused Jackie to flip the hell out and use the Darkness to recreate the Top Cow-verse so that Sara didn't have to kill his daughter.

That is a good point that only her and Jackie survived the universal wipe-out. One small point though, we find out later that Sara did in fact kill Hope, which explains why when Jackie rewrote things, Hope becomes a bit tweaked and has Darkness powers.

#36 Edited by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@wyldsong said:

@gokuwarrior said:

@wyldsong said:

@gokuwarrior said:

@wyldsong: WW is not tagged by slow characters consistently,compared to thousands and thousands of feats blocking speeding bullets,lasers and even faster things coming in all directions at once,any ocassion with her getting tatgged by anything slower is the actual inconsistency.

Then prove it. I have seen her get tagged numerous times. Prove me wrong that she has never gotten tagged by slower characters, but hey, you already stated there were inconsistencies yourself...

i said she is not tagged by slow characters consistently,we say that what is consistent is considered what characters do when they are in character,wonder woman has been blocking speeding bullets and other type of proyectiles coming in all directions at once since 1941,having very fast reflexes is the common place for her,so for every ocassion you name where she was tagged by an slow character,i can debunk it by literally postong thousands and thousands of feats from her blocking speeding bullets and faster things coming in all directions at once,seriously WW has more feats involving super reaction time than strength feats,it's commom logic that being very fast to block very fast things coming at her is her signature style,there is no way that slow characters can tag her without the help of PIS because her signature style is being fast enough to rect against speeding bullets and more.

And wow, the Witchblade can do just that (the underlined)...shocking, I know. I have seen bullet blockers, timers and dodgers get tagged consistently by slower foes, so trying to debunk it all by using bullet blocking feats really proves very little.

WW's consistent feats prove she is above super sonic speed and i'm only using the most common feats because she has a huge list of feats blocking faster things,but even if we go for the most basic ones,we have WW being faster than super sonic,thousands and rhousands of feats make it consistent,now prove that sara consistently fights at speeds faster than supersonic,because nothing with super sonic speed or below is tagging WW without PIS,her consistent showings prove this.

#37 Posted by Strider92 (16721 posts) - - Show Bio

@wyldsong: True but it doesn't detract from the feat at all. Infact it just makes it a more impressive feat on Jackies behalf.

#38 Edited by Wyldsong (5675 posts) - - Show Bio

WW's consistent feats prove she is above super sonic speed in reaction time and that is using the most common feats because she has a huge list of feats blocking faster things,but even if we go for the most basic one,we have WW being faster than super sonic,thousands and rhousands of feats make it consistent,now prove that sara consistently fights at speeds faster than supersonic,because nothing with super sonic speed 0or below is tagging WW without PIS,her consistent showings prove this.

Well, except for all the times she has been tagged by slower foes, but whatever=)

#39 Edited by Wyldsong (5675 posts) - - Show Bio

@wyldsong: True but it doesn't detract from the feat at all. Infact it just makes it a more impressive feat on Jackies behalf.

Oh no, I agree. I didn't mean to intone, if I did, that it detracted from the feat. I just wanted to clarify that point, as her killing Hope actually becomes a big plot point in the whole dopple-Jackie storyline. It was kind of left open for a bit, but we find out later that she did indeed do it.

#40 Posted by gokuwarrior (4368 posts) - - Show Bio

@wyldsong said:

@gokuwarrior said:

WW's consistent feats prove she is above super sonic speed in reaction time and that is using the most common feats because she has a huge list of feats blocking faster things,but even if we go for the most basic one,we have WW being faster than super sonic,thousands and rhousands of feats make it consistent,now prove that sara consistently fights at speeds faster than supersonic,because nothing with super sonic speed 0or below is tagging WW without PIS,her consistent showings prove this.

Well, except for all the times she has been tagged by slower foes, but whatever=)

and the only way all those times you name could matter is if they happen more often than her easily doing things above super sonic speed,but no,WW hasn't been tagged thousands of times by slow characters,in the other hand,she has done things above super sonic speed,how many times?,well 60% of her whole feats catalogue,so what is consistent?,that WW>>>super sonic,supported by?,more than 2.000 feats,what is inconsistent?,WW tagged by slow characters,consistency is in WW's favor.

#41 Posted by IcePrince_X (4865 posts) - - Show Bio

Also in that comic...Sarah is the only one who removed the witchblade from Wonder Woman.

#42 Edited by Wyldsong (5675 posts) - - Show Bio

@gokuwarrior said:

and the only way all those times you name could matter is if they happen more often than her easily doing things above super sonic speed,but no,WW hasn't been tagged thousands of times by slow characters,in the other hand,she has done things above super sonic speed,how many times?,well 60% of her whole feats catalogue,so what is consistent?,that WW>>>super sonic,supported by?,more than 2.000 feats,what is inconsistent?,WW tagged by slow characters,consistency is in WW's favor.

Consistent is something I expect to see every time she enters combat. Even 40% of the time (going based off of your 60%) is a large chunk of showings, which throws the whole consistent thing out of whack, which obviously, we don't even know the factuality of that number in of itself. 40% of the time is far too near that 50/50 split, which seems to say that she holds back on that speed, much like Supes.

Now, I am not arguing that overall she isn't faster. But she isn't an untaggable character by any means.

#43 Edited by Ancient_0f_Days (12346 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't know enough about Witchblade outside of a little bit of the anime....but lol at anyone saying Wonder Woman's speed is not a factor.

#44 Edited by Wyldsong (5675 posts) - - Show Bio

@ancient_0f_days said:

I don't know enough about Witchblade outside of a little bit of the anime....but lol at anyone saying Wonder Woman's speed is not a factor.

I am not sure anyone is saying that speed isn't a factor (though I haven't fully read every comment, and I personally haven't stated a winner either way). I am simply calling someone out over the whole speedblitz argument and the consistency of it, making it sound as if she has never been tagged by slower foes. I've never once said she isn't fast or has not had awesome displays of speed.

#45 Posted by Amaranth (8210 posts) - - Show Bio

Witchblade has zero chance against pre-n52 Diana. None. Zip. Nada.

#46 Posted by reaverlation (16358 posts) - - Show Bio

Diana

#47 Edited by Wyldsong (5675 posts) - - Show Bio

@wyldsong said:

@ancient_0f_days said:

I don't know enough about Witchblade outside of a little bit of the anime....but lol at anyone saying Wonder Woman's speed is not a factor.

I am not sure anyone is saying that speed isn't a factor (though I haven't fully read every comment, and I personally haven't stated a winner either way). I am simply calling someone out over the whole speedblitz argument and the consistency of it, making it sound as if she has never been tagged by slower foes. I've never once said she isn't fast or has not had awesome displays of speed.

I guess I should also throw out that the anime and manga are canon to at least the pre-Rebirth storyline before things got changed up. Though in the anime, Masane really did not have the control that Sara does, and pretty much keeps things on the physical side of the Witchblade's abilities.

#48 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@crom_cruach said:

Wonder Woman would win. I'm saying this as the biggest and most loyal witchblade fan on this site. Sarah has never faced off against an opponent near the Wonder Woman or Superman range. Saying that the witchblade can kill abstracts is completely moot, because she has never killed an abstract and none of the artifact bearers are abstracts. some wielders just wield the power of abstract level beings

Even the most powerful of the artifacts wielders would get trounced by Superman or Wonderwoman. The darkness/superman cross over was total PIS and I'm saying this as a Darkness fan.

..... Im not a huge fan of Darkness, but I know for a fact Supes would be rape stomp by Darkness. Easy day.

@wyldsong said:
@ancient_0f_days said:

I don't know enough about Witchblade outside of a little bit of the anime....but lol at anyone saying Wonder Woman's speed is not a factor.

I am not sure anyone is saying that speed isn't a factor (though I haven't fully read every comment, and I personally haven't stated a winner either way). I am simply calling someone out over the whole speedblitz argument and the consistency of it, making it sound as if she has never been tagged by slower foes. I've never once said she isn't fast or has not had awesome displays of speed.

Speed can be a factor, but who cares if you cannot A) harm the foe or B) used it in 95% of their fights.

#49 Edited by Crom-Cruach (8898 posts) - - Show Bio

@wyldsong said:

Jackie has killed the main Darkness entity, and was told that he was basically taking its place. Jackie is now the one and only Darkness, and while the story has not fully explored the full extent of just what that means, we know that in current Witchblade stories, she has already ended the Darkness (there is no more Darkness currently and the story Darkness Falls coming out this year will tell the whole tale) and killed Jackie. The Witchblade has in fact ended an abstract.

Darkness/Superman crossover was written by Marz, who has an extensive history with Top Cow and DC, and as such has written Superman and the Darkness and has an extensive working knowledge of both. By his estimation, Jackie has the strength to actually hurt Superman, but Superman is in fact the stronger of the two (he confirmed this for me on twitter). Darkness would trounce Superman in a full out battle, because Supes cannot put the Darkness down, and has no answer for the Darkness being manipulated inside, especially considering he has not special resistance for supernatural powers such as Jackie's.

Jackie thinks he killed the Darkness entity, and it appears as if he succeeded to the reader. That doesn't make it true and frankly knowing how cunning, deceitful and evil the Darkness entity is along with it's immense power. Not to mention the fact that Jackie has long history of getting f**ked over because he thought he's running the show let's just say I'm not convinced.

All of this is irrelevant anyway. Most people have this inaccurate belief that because the artifacts are abstract level beings that their wielders wield this type of power all the time. This is far from the case, most of the time they don't even wield a fraction of that power. With this in mind, when debating with them. We have to use their on panel feats when they are in control and not those moments where the artifact takes over. Not to mention that an artifacts ability to destroy or hurt other artifacts is also irrelevant. The artifacts are designed to counter each other. Entities who are not artifacts or artifact related, do not get their power or defenses robbed automatically. And just because the Artifact did something epic at some point doesn't mean Sarah can replicate it constantly. It was just another Deus Ex Machina moment where the sentient artifact unleashed it's power. It's not Sarah or Jackie (as the case above) who used that power, it was the abstract itself.

This taken into account along with the fact that when debating we have to use on-panel feats where it's Sarah in control, wielding what power she knows and has at her disposal and not just the artifacts theorethical plot device level power. Then saying Sarah will win is ridiculous. She has a long history of faring very poorly against high level beings. She got her ass handed to her by the godling that possessed MCCarthy. Tiamat almost killed her had Daniel not intervened, etc. Heck she routinely got humiliated by Ian Nothingham who is nowhere near her power level and whom Wonder Woman would casually swat away like a fly.

As for Ron Marz, I love his writing. But him saying on twitter that he thinks Superman would love doesn't make it true. Superman can unleash planet shattering punches, move faster then the speed of light, throw eye-beams hotter then the core of the sun, tank blasts from gods. Writers are not immune to being wrong. Even they get things wrong. This is why we have inconsistencies in comics where when one writer writes it, a character is super-powerful then in another, they get punked by things under their level.

There is literally no character in the canon curren Top Cow universe who has displayed anything close to Superman or Wonder Woman level power constantly. All the artifact wielders, unless it's one of those Deus Ex Machina moments where the artifact takes over are nowhere near that level.

So again, I still wholly defend that unless the artifact kicks in full abstract mode (where this is not Sarah doing anything anymore) she would lose to WW.

#50 Edited by Wyldsong (5675 posts) - - Show Bio

@crom_cruach: No, Jackie killed the Darkness. That is what is shown in the story, and Jackie used a weapon specifically made to kill the Darkness. Any theories to the contrary are just that, theories. Especially when there has not been any kind of hint or clue anywhere in the story that the entity survived. Until then, the point and the feat stands.

As for Marz, sorry, I'll take his word over the thoughts and beliefs of anyone on this board any day, since he has written plenty that is canon for both characters. Superman discussions...bleh, but this whole speed, planet shattering punches, and so on...these are the more extreme abilities that are a bit of the exception to the rule in many Superman stories, which is the case in most Superman books, as characters like Superman, Wonderman, and the like generally don't go running into combat displaying these extreme abilities. It's a fine line between PIS and CIS, and happens so often, it is more likely relegated to CIS. You can call Supes and Wonder Woman getting punked by things below their level as inconsistent, but when there is a good documented history of it, it kind of turns into something less inconsistent, and more into the realm of exceedingly possible. Call it a character flaw, or whatever you like, but it has happened often enough that it is kind of hard to ignore. Now, we don't have to agree, and I don't expect us to.

We can look at the strength feats of Jackie and Sara, and it could be pointed out that while their stories have not lead them to moving planets, what they do have shows it being effortless. I can show you Jackie tearing up military copters and tanks with ease, creating life, and doing things on a molecular level. I can show you a scene where we see the Angelus has the power to bust planets, and forge stars into weapons. Even Sara ending a world ending being with the Witchblade. I can see where the belief is held that they can often hold their own.

Sara versus WW...whatever you want to believe there bud. I still have not made up my mind, and am not downing or disbelieving of that thought at this point.