Winter Soldier vs. Punisher

  • 85 results
  • 1
  • 2
Avatar image for rebel_leader1
Rebel_Leader1

636

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

No Caption Provided

Winter Soldier vs. the Punisher.

Each has full gear and 1 hour prep each.

Fight takes place in an abandoned warehouse, who wins between these two highly skilled killers?

Avatar image for deactivated-5e8a1f5fafc4e
deactivated-5e8a1f5fafc4e

26473

Forum Posts

2126

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 4

Bucky with some difficulty

Avatar image for those_eyes
those_eyes

17291

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Avatar image for deactivated-5e8a1f5fafc4e
deactivated-5e8a1f5fafc4e

26473

Forum Posts

2126

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 4

Avatar image for rebel_leader1
Rebel_Leader1

636

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Anyone else?

Avatar image for oceanmaster21
oceanmaster21

18598

Forum Posts

551

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

could go either way in my opinion

Avatar image for darthaznable
DarthAznable

16960

Forum Posts

361

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#7  Edited By DarthAznable
Avatar image for deactivated-5e8a1f5fafc4e
deactivated-5e8a1f5fafc4e

26473

Forum Posts

2126

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 4

@those_eyes said:

@i_like_swords: Bucky is on caps level right?

Only because of Super Solider Serum.

Did Bucky get SSS in comics? I heard he got a serum that gave him longevity but not a SSS.

Avatar image for darthaznable
DarthAznable

16960

Forum Posts

361

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@darthaznable said:

@those_eyes said:

@i_like_swords: Bucky is on caps level right?

Only because of Super Solider Serum.

Did Bucky get SSS in comics? I heard he got a serum that gave him longevity but not a SSS.

I might Cap's SSS is what puts him over Bucky. At least in my opinion. He seems to have something similar in the movie though....whew.

Avatar image for deadpo0l
Deadpo0l

375

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#10  Edited By Deadpo0l

Winter Soldier

Avatar image for thexx
ThexX

1615

Forum Posts

135

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Avatar image for kgb725
kgb725

24239

Forum Posts

227

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@thexx: Thread over in that case

Avatar image for dondave
dondave

41764

Forum Posts

345855

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Bucky

Avatar image for comicstooge
ComicStooge

22063

Forum Posts

171

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 1

#14  Edited By ComicStooge

Full gear? Like, Dark Reign type stuff?

Avatar image for dcandmarvel
dcandmarvel

1110

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Winter Soldier

Avatar image for night4345
Night4345

8450

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 2

Bucky.

Avatar image for lunacyde
Lunacyde

32410

Forum Posts

9520

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 4

#17 Lunacyde  Moderator

Winter Soldier

Avatar image for keenko
Keenko

5308

Forum Posts

1431

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 10

Avatar image for jashro44
jashro44

57695

Forum Posts

253

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Punisher already admitted he can't beat Bucky head on. His only option would be to take bucky by surprise. I think Frank is a more accurate shot but Bucky isn't too bad himself, and bucky is way more agile. And the problem with stealth is Bucky has feats that are as good if not better.

Avatar image for nickzambuto
nickzambuto

29288

Forum Posts

5083

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

I wanted to say stalemate, but Frank himself claimed that he would lose, and I can see where he's coming from with that.

Avatar image for legacy6364
legacy6364

7622

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#21  Edited By legacy6364

This battle can go either way IMO, especially if the Punisher can close the distance.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Avatar image for jmarshmallow
Jmarshmallow

14023

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Bucky should take Frank with only a bit of difficulty.

Jmarshmallow

Avatar image for deactivated-5e8a1f5fafc4e
deactivated-5e8a1f5fafc4e

26473

Forum Posts

2126

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 4

@jashro44: He admitted that he can't beat Bucky in H2H. Following this, he put himself in a position where Bucky was dead to rights.

On the basis that this isn't a H2H fight, and Frank has access to his more extravagant gear which more than makes up for Buckys metal arm, I'm favouring him.

Avatar image for lunacyde
Lunacyde

32410

Forum Posts

9520

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 4

#25 Lunacyde  Moderator

@legacy6364:

That is a best case scenario for Frank and it still didn't look good for him. Bucky wins the majority for sure.

Avatar image for legacy6364
legacy6364

7622

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@lunacyde said:

@legacy6364:

That is a best case scenario for Frank and it still didn't look good for him. Bucky wins the majority for sure.

Agreed.

Avatar image for deactivated-5e8a1f5fafc4e
deactivated-5e8a1f5fafc4e

26473

Forum Posts

2126

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 4

Buckys only real advantages here are physical abilities and martial skill. Is that really more pertinent than things like marksmanship, equipment and battle-tactics, all areas where Frank has him beat?

Avatar image for deactivated-5e8a1f5fafc4e
deactivated-5e8a1f5fafc4e

26473

Forum Posts

2126

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 4

@lunacyde said:

@legacy6364:

That is a best case scenario for Frank and it still didn't look good for him. Bucky wins the majority for sure.

Sure looked good for Bucky though, right?

Avatar image for jashro44
jashro44

57695

Forum Posts

253

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#29  Edited By jashro44

@jashro44: He admitted that he can't beat Bucky in H2H. Following this, he put himself in a position where Bucky was dead to rights.

On the basis that this isn't a H2H fight, and Frank has access to his more extravagant gear which more than makes up for Buckys metal arm, I'm favouring him.

He never said that BUcky would kill him in hand to hand, he just said that if they fought Bucky would kill him:

No Caption Provided

Yes it ended with Franks gun to Buckys head but Bucky had his super human arm around punishers neck. Pretty sure all Bucky would have to is squeeze his hand as tight as possible and Frank would have died to. I mean it can crush steel it can probably crush Franks throat.

Avatar image for dondave
dondave

41764

Forum Posts

345855

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Buchanan

Avatar image for keenko
Keenko

5308

Forum Posts

1431

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 10

@lunacyde: that was a stalemate. it wasn't really good for Bucky or Punisher.

Punisher has better prep, accuracy, equipment, etc.

Avatar image for lunacyde
Lunacyde

32410

Forum Posts

9520

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 4

#32 Lunacyde  Moderator

@keenko:

@lunacyde said:

@legacy6364:

That is a best case scenario for Frank and it still didn't look good for him. Bucky wins the majority for sure.

Sure looked good for Bucky though, right?

My point was that Frank had to resort to lulling him into a false sense of security in that situation, and therefore had a huge advantage. The scenario was tipped heavily in Frank's favor and Bucky still stalemated him.

Avatar image for jashro44
jashro44

57695

Forum Posts

253

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@lunacyde said:

@keenko:

@i_like_swords said:

@lunacyde said:

@legacy6364:

That is a best case scenario for Frank and it still didn't look good for him. Bucky wins the majority for sure.

Sure looked good for Bucky though, right?

My point was that Frank had to resort to lulling him into a false sense of security in that situation, and therefore had a huge advantage. The scenario was tipped heavily in Frank's favor and Bucky still stalemated him.

To be fair I wouldn't really call it much of a fight.

Avatar image for deactivated-5e8a1f5fafc4e
deactivated-5e8a1f5fafc4e

26473

Forum Posts

2126

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 4

@jashro44 said:

@i_like_swords said:

@jashro44: He admitted that he can't beat Bucky in H2H. Following this, he put himself in a position where Bucky was dead to rights.

On the basis that this isn't a H2H fight, and Frank has access to his more extravagant gear which more than makes up for Buckys metal arm, I'm favouring him.

He never said that BUcky would kill him in hand to hand, he just said that if they fought Bucky would kill him:

No Caption Provided

Yes it ended with Franks gun to Buckys head but Bucky had his super human arm around punishers neck. Pretty sure all Bucky would have to is squeeze his hand as tight as possible and Frank would have died to. I mean it can crush steel it can probably crush Franks throat.

On the previous page, Bucky challenged Frank to a purely H2H fight (because he was pissed at Frank wearing Caps uniform after he was killed). Bucky was, by his own admission, going to beat the sh*t out of Frank with his bare hands. Frank said, in the context of a fist fight, "if we fought, you'd kill me". How does that translate to this thread?

I don't know if Bucky would be able to deal that level of damage to Frank's throat in the time it would take him to pull a trigger, especially given the fact Frank has flat out out-wrestled Tiger Shark (underwater too IIRC). At best it was a stalemate, at worst Bucky is dead. I think everyone is using that showing as a crutch at the moment.

Avatar image for legacy6364
legacy6364

7622

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Avatar image for deactivated-5e8a1f5fafc4e
deactivated-5e8a1f5fafc4e

26473

Forum Posts

2126

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 4

@lunacyde said:

@keenko:

@i_like_swords said:

@lunacyde said:

@legacy6364:

That is a best case scenario for Frank and it still didn't look good for him. Bucky wins the majority for sure.

Sure looked good for Bucky though, right?

My point was that Frank had to resort to lulling him into a false sense of security in that situation, and therefore had a huge advantage. The scenario was tipped heavily in Frank's favor and Bucky still stalemated him.

He didn't have to resort to doing anything. He was earning Bucky's respect by pulling that stunt, instead of seeming washed up or scared infront of him. Frank has let a non-holding back Captain America beat him to a pulp - you really think he can't handle letting Bucky do the same? This little exchange is hardly indicative of how the scenario in this thread would play out (which IMO ends with Frank winning a majority, even if it did get to CQC), and it's not indicative of Frank being scared of or overall inferior to Bucky.

Avatar image for jcell
jcell

84

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#37  Edited By jcell

Under these conditions probably Bucky, but that scan does a good job displaying how unpredictable Frank Castle is, it's a tough call. If Frank had a bit more prep time I'd definitely give it to him. Knowing him he'd probably have the whole warehouse rigged with explosives and trip wires.

Avatar image for jashro44
jashro44

57695

Forum Posts

253

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@i_like_swords: Fair enough.

Possibly all though as others have said Frank did lower BUcky into a false sense of security. I don't really think that was much of a fight anyways to be honest.

I would still say Bucky can handle Frank though. He's accurate in his own right, and he has danced around hawkeye in training session so he is capable of dodging shots from skilled marksman. In terms of prep I am very behind in punishers series but he hasn't shown any advanced resources to my knowledge. IN terms of tactics Frank does have the edge but Bucky is pretty smart to. He lured wolverine into an ink factor to help get the drop on him, and he took advantage of the rain to get the drop on him.

I think he is better at stealth though. Those aren't the only time Bucky got the drop on wolverine, IIRC he has actually watched wolverine for over a month without Logan knowing. And I recall @slimj87d mentioning in original sin Bucky snuck by wolverine, black panther, etc. Frank has his own good stealth feats but I feel Bucky has better consistent feats in that category.

All though my knowledge of Bucky is limited. So not sure if I can really debate this properly.

Avatar image for god_spawn
god_spawn

46824

Forum Posts

35524

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 43

User Lists: 10

#39 god_spawn  Moderator

In about a month, I doubt this will start to be even a debatable subject.

Avatar image for jashro44
jashro44

57695

Forum Posts

253

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

In about a month, I doubt this will start to be even a debatable subject.

Why? Are they fighting?

Avatar image for mysticmedivh
mysticmedivh

32487

Forum Posts

570

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

In about a month, I doubt this will start to be even a debatable subject.

What makes you say that?

Avatar image for god_spawn
god_spawn

46824

Forum Posts

35524

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 43

User Lists: 10

#42 god_spawn  Moderator

@jashro44: Nope. Bucky is going be planet hopping in deep space, so I'd imagine he's going to be getting some hefty new gear. I know Frank has his own stash of advanced tech, but by comparison in what is typical for them to use, Bucky is most likely going to have better stuff.

Avatar image for god_spawn
god_spawn

46824

Forum Posts

35524

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 43

User Lists: 10

#43 god_spawn  Moderator
Avatar image for deactivated-5e8a1f5fafc4e
deactivated-5e8a1f5fafc4e

26473

Forum Posts

2126

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 4

@jashro44 said:

@i_like_swords: Fair enough.

Possibly all though as others have said Frank did lower BUcky into a false sense of security. I don't really think that was much of a fight anyways to be honest.

It wasn't really a fight. Bucky was never intending to kill Frank, and Frank was only pulling a stunt to show Bucky how quickly he could have taken his life.

@jashro44 said:

I would still say Bucky can handle Frank though. He's accurate in his own right, and he has danced around hawkeye in training session so he is capable of dodging shots from skilled marksman

Hawkeye isn't quite on Frank's level when it comes to tagging bullet timers, though. And inevitably arrows are much slower than bullets and especially energy projectiles (which Frank would be packing plenty of, including weapons that can freeze Bucky in place for an incap, if Frank does have "full gear").

When it comes to guns, conventional or super, Frank should win. He's just better. Not a stomp necessarily, but Frank is better.

In terms of prep I am very behind in punishers series but he hasn't shown any advanced resources to my knowledge.

I'm only on issue 4 so far, but Frank does keep caches of super-gear for when he needs it. So he should have access to his Dark Reign/War Zone gear here. If not I still favor Frank anyway.

IN terms of tactics Frank does have the edge but Bucky is pretty smart to. He lured wolverine into an ink factor to help get the drop on him, and he took advantage of the rain to get the drop on him.

I think he is better at stealth though. Those aren't the only time Bucky got the drop on wolverine, IIRC he has actually watched wolverine for over a month without Logan knowing. And I recall @slimj87d mentioning in original sin Bucky snuck by wolverine, black panther, etc. Frank has his own good stealth feats but I feel Bucky has better consistent feats in that category.

All though my knowledge of Bucky is limited. So not sure if I can really debate this properly.

Agreed. Bucky is smart, Frank just seems to be smarter. Cap himself has praised Frank's tactical ability and let him coordinate and plan missions during civil war that they both took part in.

He got the drop on Wolverine by masking himself from Wolverines enhanced senses IIRC. It's impressive, but he can't do that with Frank in this situation (start visible, both aware of each other and looking for each other), who seems to have natural night vision and can sense changes in air currents anyway. Stealth doesn't seem like a factor.

Alright.

Avatar image for nickzambuto
nickzambuto

29288

Forum Posts

5083

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@i_like_swords: You make some very good points, I wasn't aware of that context.

Avatar image for deactivated-5e8a1f5fafc4e
deactivated-5e8a1f5fafc4e

26473

Forum Posts

2126

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 4

@nickzambuto: Thanks man. I read the comic recently so it was fresh in my mind.

Avatar image for jashro44
jashro44

57695

Forum Posts

253

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#47  Edited By jashro44

@i_like_swords: Just a few things (I know I said I said I don't really have the knowledge of Bucky to debate this), but Hakweye has been able to tag captain america (shot his shield out of the air and then shot Steve himself, admittedly Steve did have him beat prior to that). So all though he may not be as good as Frank he is still a good a shot. And as I said Bucky is pretty accurate (he shot crossbones while being thrown out of the window, while intentionally missing all his vital organs IIRC), shot hawkeyes arrows out of the air, etc.

Also as I said I agree it wasn't really a fight between Bucky and punisher. And in regards to wolverine, I wouldn't be surprised if Bucky did mask his scent from wolverine (that would make sense), but wolverines hearing is still something bucky would need to overcome. And than there is the showing in original sin Slim can fill us in on when he gets on, as black panthers senses have basically been shown to be equal to wolverines own. I know black panther can detect movement from half a mile away. So Bucky sneaking by him and wolverine is a pretty good feat.

Also the OP doesn't mention visibility so I assume prep allows them to use stealth if they want to personally. All though I guess thats something up for debate. All though I'll admit this is closer than I thought originally, good points.

Avatar image for karazyn
Karazyn

888

Forum Posts

18

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#48  Edited By Karazyn

i say punisher.... bucky isn't the best fighter in the marvel universe, so winning with skill alone will probably not be an option for him and it will come down to strength and durability....... he has his arm, but punisher is just so durable, ruthless and tricky

Avatar image for deactivated-5e8a1f5fafc4e
deactivated-5e8a1f5fafc4e

26473

Forum Posts

2126

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 4

@jashro44:

Agreed, Bucky is good at avoidance.

That's true, but then Wolverine wasn't trying to hear (or see and otherwise sense for that matter) Bucky like Frank would be. And I can't really comment on the Black Panther showing because I haven't read it. I can agree that stealth would help Bucky for a round or two, but I just can't see it landing him a majority.

Well, a warehouse can be pretty huge now that I think about it so Bucky likely would go the stealth route. Frank isn't shabby in this category either though and I think more often than not he'll be able to find Bucky.

Not to mention, Frank could have all kinds of traps lying around.

Avatar image for theamazingimmortalman
TheAmazingImmortalMan

4628

Forum Posts

1419

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 2

Can I vote too close to call