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#1 Posted by Batmanfanboy (1139 posts) - - Show Bio

Close combat,no guns.
No prep,random encounter.
Morals off,Bloodlusted hated eachother since sandbox days.

Who wins? takes place in a dark alley,not raining.

#2 Posted by Wolverine08 (41107 posts) - - Show Bio

Is this H2H only?

#3 Posted by CairoV (242 posts) - - Show Bio

Daredevil loses, his spandex suit keeps him too restricted :P

#4 Edited by Batmanfanboy (1139 posts) - - Show Bio
#5 Edited by darktiger (4458 posts) - - Show Bio

I'd go for winter soldier In a awesome fight I honestly think he is a better H2H fighter then DD someone may prove me wrong because I really don't think DD is as good of a fighter

#6 Posted by Ashley_J_Williams2 (5 posts) - - Show Bio

daredevil stomps

#7 Posted by darktiger (4458 posts) - - Show Bio

@Wolverine08

#8 Posted by darktiger (4458 posts) - - Show Bio

Who do you think wins I honestly think winter soldier is a better hand to hand combatant based off pure consistency in feats but I can definitely be persuaded otherwise

#9 Posted by oceanmaster21 (7866 posts) - - Show Bio

This Actually would be a tough fight indeed

#10 Posted by Wolverine08 (41107 posts) - - Show Bio

Matt.

#11 Posted by AllStarSuperman (21697 posts) - - Show Bio
#12 Posted by MadeinBangladesh (6637 posts) - - Show Bio

Ends in tie.

#13 Posted by HAMMER_OF_J2 (1103 posts) - - Show Bio

Almost too close to call but winter soldiers bionic arm gives him the slight edge

#14 Posted by Stormdriven (4816 posts) - - Show Bio

Winter Soldier's former nickname was Bucky. He obviously loses.

#15 Edited by acer51 (2235 posts) - - Show Bio

Daredevil is a hand to hand specialist, Winter Solider is a hand to hand master himself but it's not his total focus.

Winter solider is at disadvantage without any firearms it's going to be very difficult for him to tag Daredevil and he's not significantly stronger then him anyway.

Daredevil has proven himself able to bullet time with ease, and while Barnes can dodge bullets he dodge them the way Captain America does and there's a BIG difference between how well someone like Captain America dodge firearms and the way Daredevil does it who is basically the master of danger sense.

It's true what @hammer_of_j2 says about the arm making him stronger, but I believe and will back the claim that Daredevils reflexes make up for the slight difference in strength between the two as well as the fact that Daredevil has superior agility and the advantage of a weapon (his whip/billy club) in this encounter.

#16 Edited by Teerack (5836 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Daredevil would win. Bucky is cool and a great fighter but with no weapons he can't take down Daredevil. Even in the last Winter Solider volume Bucky was brain washed and tried to kill Daredevil with weapons and in the end it just kind of pissed Daredevil off, and he walked away without so much as a rip in his suit.

#17 Edited by Veshark (9058 posts) - - Show Bio

Mm, I think I'll give it to Daredevil, to be honest. While Bucky's no slouch when it comes to HTH, he's never really displayed the extent of martial arts prowess that Matt has (with the nerve strikes and training and all). HTH just isn't Buck's sole focus. If assuming Winter Soldier's not allowed to use any firearms as well as gadgets (e.g. sonar, bionic arm charge), he's already at a disadvantage, especially against Daredevil's sonar. Matt just has to watch out for that bionic arm. And not to put too fine a point: but DD already held his own against a morals-off Bucky packing weapons, least till Steve intervened.

I think it'll definitely be far from a stomp for DD though.

#18 Posted by DigitalShooter9 (1593 posts) - - Show Bio

Daredevil quite easily...

#20 Edited by SlimJ87D (9662 posts) - - Show Bio

Bucky takes it. Bucky still has the mechanical arm and impact resistant suit. He has the greater durability and strength. They're about equal in skill.

#21 Posted by TDK_1997 (14693 posts) - - Show Bio

This is an interesting fight.Matt is the better fighter here in h2h combat but Bucky has an advantage in power and speed in my opinion.The mechanical arm gives him a good boost in this fight and I think he can outmatch Matt because of it.

#22 Edited by Chibi_cute (4521 posts) - - Show Bio

Daredevil..

However if its movie versions.. Winter soldier wins based on the trailer.

#23 Posted by dondave (36506 posts) - - Show Bio

Michael

Online
#24 Posted by copete (1075 posts) - - Show Bio

Givinf this to Daredevil as well. He will skillfully dodge many of WS strikes, frustrate him, land blows to vital weakness points.

#25 Edited by entropy_aegis (15206 posts) - - Show Bio

Daredevil,superior combat skill,faster,more agile and stronger (ignoring the arm ). The said arm is Bucks only advantage.

#26 Edited by HeraldofGanthet (3368 posts) - - Show Bio

@chibi_cute:

Daredevil..

However if its movie versions.. Winter soldier wins based on the trailer.

LOL! So much truth crammed into one sentence....

#27 Posted by Jmarshmallow (5146 posts) - - Show Bio

Matt wins.

Jmarshmallow

#28 Edited by SlimJ87D (9662 posts) - - Show Bio

I know I'm debating against the majority here, but I don't recall anything Dare Devil has done that clearly puts him above and beyond Bucky in skill. I'm open to this possibility though, but even Wolverine put them on the same level of skill.

I'm guessing this can go both ways, but when has Daredevil defeated someone on Bucky's level of skill, in addition to having a impact resistant suit and mechanical arm that can punch holes easily through metal?

I admit, DD would take the majority if they were fighting in street clothes or a Gi and Bucky didn't have a mechanical arm. But here, that's not the case.

Again, Bucky has the durability advantage here. I don't think a lot of you know much about it. He also just has to land a hit with his mechanical arm. I think those are far more advantageous than anything DD has on Bucky.

You guys might pull up the fact that he couldn't kill DD, but that's because it was in DD's training grounds and an area that he's mostly familiar with. Lets not forget that Bucky was again fatigued and had not slept for the entire time Natasha had been taken from him. So I wouldn't hold that fight against either of them because it never even reached a conclusion or really started.

#29 Posted by Vance Astro (91196 posts) - - Show Bio

@slimj87d said:

I know I'm debating against the majority here, but I don't recall anything Dare Devil has done that clearly puts him above and beyond Bucky in skill. I'm open to this possibility though.

I'm guessing this can go both ways, but when has Daredevil defeated someone on Bucky's level of skill, in addition to having a impact resistant suit and mechanical arm that can punch holes easily through metal?

I admit, DD would take the majority if they were fighting in street clothes or a Gi and Bucky didn't have a mechanical arm. But here, that's not the case.

Again, Bucky has the durability advantage here. I don't think a lot of you know much about it. He also just has to land a hit with his mechanical arm. I think those are far more advantageous than anything DD has on Bucky.

You guys might pull up the fact that he couldn't kill DD, but that's because it was in DD's training grounds and an area that he's mostly familiar with. Lets not forget that Bucky was again fatigued and had not slept for the entire time Natasha had been taken from him. So I wouldn't hold that fight against either of them because it never even reached a conclusion or really started.

All of your arguments in favor of Bucky could be easily reversed. You say Daredevil hasn't beaten anyone as skilled as Bucky but Bucky hasn't beaten anyone as skilled as Daredevil either. You say that all Bucky has to do is land a hit on Daredevil with his mechanical arm but all DD would have to do is land a nerve strike and the fight would be over. I don't know why Bucky would have a durability advantage, I haven't seen anything from him accept for when he was Captain America (and he was wearing armor) that he would put him above DD in durability and you didn't name anything either.

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#30 Posted by Experio (15340 posts) - - Show Bio

Daredevil.

#31 Posted by Wolverine08 (41107 posts) - - Show Bio

@slimj87d said:

I know I'm debating against the majority here, but I don't recall anything Dare Devil has done that clearly puts him above and beyond Bucky in skill. I'm open to this possibility though, but even Wolverine put them on the same level of skill.

I'm guessing this can go both ways, but when has Daredevil defeated someone on Bucky's level of skill, in addition to having a impact resistant suit and mechanical arm that can punch holes easily through metal?

I admit, DD would take the majority if they were fighting in street clothes or a Gi and Bucky didn't have a mechanical arm. But here, that's not the case.

Again, Bucky has the durability advantage here. I don't think a lot of you know much about it. He also just has to land a hit with his mechanical arm. I think those are far more advantageous than anything DD has on Bucky.

You guys might pull up the fact that he couldn't kill DD, but that's because it was in DD's training grounds and an area that he's mostly familiar with. Lets not forget that Bucky was again fatigued and had not slept for the entire time Natasha had been taken from him. So I wouldn't hold that fight against either of them because it never even reached a conclusion or really started.

Daredevil has better technical showings of martial knowledge than Winter Soldier for me personally. He's been almost able to kill the 70 tonner Mr. Hyde with a pressure point to the solar plexus if he had pressed a little harder, he caused Punisher to scream in pain through a pressure point to his forearm, he knows techniques that can paralyze men with sharp blows in certain areas, and I'd also argue that his training with Stick has been expounded on far more thoroughly than that of Bucky's. Matthew is also sporting better performances against top tiers compared to Bucky from my perspective if you aren't into the whole technical knowledge way of looking at skill. He recently had the upperhand on Bucky's mentor Captain America even though he didn't really want to fight and was being hindered by anti Radar chaffs in the air, he's managed to get a slight upperhand on Black Panther in a short fight, and he also stalemated an Iron Fist whom was having some trouble mimicking his particular fighting style.

This is why i'd say Daredevil is more skilled than Winter Soldier. Matt is in a different weight class martially than Bucky for me personally. More comparable to the likes of Captain America, etc. than where Bucky is at this point skill wise.

#32 Edited by SlimJ87D (9662 posts) - - Show Bio

@vance_astro: Your first point was actually addressed in my debate when I said "it can go both ways" for the both of them. When it came to debating skill, I was only debating that they are equals. They're pretty even in the skill department, besides showings of Bucky schooling Clint like fodder and taking on Hawkeye and Wolverine at the same time, Wolverine put both Daredevil and Bucky on the same level as each other. Neither has really easily defeated an opponent on each others level, so I'm basing my opinion on them being close to evenly skilled, and putting the odds on gear.

Bucky's suit is impact and bullet proof like his Captain America suit, it was upgraded when he gave up the Captain America persona and became a free agent working for Nick Fury. He got thrown into brick walls that fell apart on him by a super powered Gorilla (the one Red Hulk killed), and was blown through a book case against a metal wall by Dr. Doom. There, he said even though he had a impact resistant suit, he still felt the pain of a sledge hammer hitting him. Bucky has his mechanical arm.

For any blow that Daredevil lands on Bucky will do less damage than any blow Bucky lands on Daredevil. It doesn't help that Bucky has the mechanical arm that can one shot either.

#33 Posted by MFrenzy11 (467 posts) - - Show Bio

DD easy his H2H skills are almost unparalleled

#34 Edited by i_like_swords (13974 posts) - - Show Bio

This is a really tough one. But I think I'll give it to Daredevil for the following reasons.

- Matt has shown a greater technical knowledge of martial arts, which is always an edge. This edge isn't by a massive degree though because Bucky is no slouch. Also, I don't know if pressure points/nerve strikes will work on Buckys impact resistant suit, or atleast not to the fullest degree they would on an unarmoured opponent.

- Matt is ever so slightly faster than Bucky. Bucky can deflect bullets with his mechanical arm. Daredevil can deflect and redirect bullets with his batons, which are a significantly smaller surface area. Not only in that regard of reaction speed is daredevil quicker, but his super senses also give him the edge and allow him to anticipate enemy movements by smelling their sweat or listening to their muscles or something. He has some kind of move reading ability anyway. Point being, while in raw capability of speed they are both peak humans, Daredevil has shown the better feats. Again though, there is no large disparity here. We need to keep taking into account Buckys arm which is seriously fast and powerful, and is enough to offset Matt from his usual game plan.

- Matt is more agile. Both are incredibly agile. I've seen some of Winter Soldiers best reaction, dodging and parkour feats and he is seriously one of the best, but let's face it, Matt is more agile. Again though, not by much.

- Strength I'm inclined to give to Bucky, but by no large margin given Daredevil has managed to tip a limo filled with people before. Just that mechanical arm.

- Durability I'll say is the same.

All in all.. Matt is just a bit more experienced and ever so slightly superior to Bucky. At least in terms of a pure martial arts bout anyway. I'd only throw it to him 6/10 though.

Now, if we were to give them both standard gear and have them fight in the pouring rain on a rooftop at night.. that would make for an absolutely epic fight that needs to happen in a comic some day.

#35 Edited by SlimJ87D (9662 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08: Was this Black Panther without the herb when he came to take over for Matt? The stalemating between Iron Fist and DD was hardly even a fight, Danny was more confused than wanting to end it. Punisher is also a guy that didn't want to go up against Bucky because he said in a straight up fight, Bucky would beat him.

Yes, Matt does have more pressure point knowledge than Bucky or at least he has displayed more martial skills than Bucky has, but in a fight against someone that is as skilled, pressure points aren't something that can be easily landed on someone that knows how to defend themselves really well. To land your pressure points, you would have to be be able to perform a number of strikes before your opponent can land a first or second strike. If Matt is capable of landing pressure points on top tier fighters, than I don't see why he wouldn't' be able to do them on Bucky, but from my knowledge, he hasn't. Besides that, Bucky has a bullet proof impact resistant suit, so there are a lot of chances the pressure points even if thrown would fail.

I don't see this debate coming down to skill, as I responded to Vance earlier, Wolverine puts them at the same level. This fight to be comes down to gear.

#36 Posted by RogueShadow (10331 posts) - - Show Bio

DD

#37 Posted by Wolverine08 (41107 posts) - - Show Bio

@slimj87d:

Was this Black Panther without the herb when he came to take over for Matt? The stalemating between Iron Fist and DD was hardly even a fight, Danny was more confused than wanting to end it. Punisher is also a guy that didn't want to go up against Bucky because he said in a straight up fight, Bucky would beat him.

I wasn't referring to Man Without Fear Black Panther in the instance that Daredevil was able to get an upperhand on him. Black Panther had the heart shaped herb at the time, and it was quite a bit before when Black Panther lost his physical enhancements during Doom War.

The stalemate of Iron Fist was most definitely a real fight. Danny was confused about whom Matt was, so what? He was taking the fight seriously enough that he was trying to get the upperhand on Matt by mimicking his fighting style, and even tried to use Chi to punch him. My reference to Daredevil fighting Punisher wasn't to point out that Matt beat Frank, but point out the technical knowledge he showcased in that fight. The technical knowledge Bucky has never shown. You also didn't address Daredevil being able to get the upperhand on a pissed off Captain America(Someone whom would beat the snot out of Bucky) while not even going out. Matt has also been able to fight Taskmaster and other criminals at the same time As far as the information you presented shows, Bucky doesn't have as many impressive fights against top tiers as Matt does along with the technical proficiency gap.

Yes, Matt does have more pressure point knowledge than Bucky or at least he has displayed more martial skills than Bucky has, but in a fight against someone that is as skilled, pressure points aren't something that can be easily landed on someone that knows how to defend themselves really well. To land your pressure points, you would have to be be able to perform a number of strikes before your opponent can land a first or second strike. If Matt is capable of landing pressure points on top tier fighters, than I don't see why he wouldn't' be able to do them on Bucky, but from my knowledge, he hasn't. Besides that, Bucky has a bullet proof impact resistant suit, so there are a lot of chances the pressure points even if thrown would fail.

Top tier fighters have been able to land pressure point attacks on other skilled fighters a number of times. Just off the top of my head, weakened Wolverine was able to nonchalantly land a nerve strike attack to Captain America and give him a pseudo aneurysm as a parting gift. Matthew has been able to land pressure point attacks on skilled fighters like Punisher before, and I didn't point out Matthew's use of pressure point attacks to say he could put down Bucky with them. I pointed them out to demonstrate that Matthew has superior technical knowledge compared to Bucky, thus making him a batter martial artist.

I don't see this debate coming down to skill, as I responded to Vance earlier, Wolverine puts them at the same level. This fight to be comes down to gear.

I wouldn't say Wolverine's statement means that much honestly. Statements in comic books generally shouldn't be taken seriously unless there is showings to back them up. It's tantamount to Black Panther calling Shang Chi better than Iron Fist despite the fact that behind all the hype Shang gets, he's severely lacking in feats. Wolverine's statement isn't going to be something to much weight on unless Bucky actually gets technical showings on par of those of Matt's.

#38 Posted by SlimJ87D (9662 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08: The statement from Wolverine was backed up to the fact that Bucky was able to have good showings against Wolverine and Hawkeye as well as trying to go after Daredevil. The statement is also backed up to the fact that Wolverine has fought against both of them a number of times. The context behind Wolverine's statement and the showings I presented show that Bucky is above and beyond anyone Daredevil has landed pressure points on.

Knowing and actually being able to do what you know against your opponent are two different things, Bucky's at a level where I think we now both agree that DD isn't going to be able to easily pressure point him. When it comes down to it, both combatants are going to be using striking techniques to take each other down like they have against a number of their opponents, and again like I said, Bucky's suit gives him the durability advantage to soak those strikes up. Bucky's arm gives him the ability to take DD out with one strike if landed anywhere on the body.

#39 Posted by Wolverine08 (41107 posts) - - Show Bio

@slimj87d:

The statement from Wolverine was backed up to the fact that Bucky was able to have good showings against Wolverine and Hawkeye as well as trying to go after Daredevil. The statement is also backed up to the fact that Wolverine has fought against both of them a number of times. The context behind Wolverine's statement and the showings I presented show that Bucky is above and beyond anyone Daredevil has landed pressure points on.

Most of Winter Soldier's good performances against Wolverine are condensed to being heavily prepped, and even with the aforementioned prep, Wolverine has still managed to beat Bucky senseless while he was handcuffed to boot. In a non context fight with no prep against Wolverine, 10/10, Bucky is going to end up dead. Handily too. Hawkeye is an entirely unimpressive hand to hand combatant whose best feat of skill is getting a compliment from Iron Fist while he was beating up a hoard of Hand fodder. Granted, Clint is a formidable street leveler due to other factors like great aim and equipment, but being able to do well against him isn't in any way comparable to Matt's performances like getting the upperhand on Captain America while not even going all out, getting an upperhand on Black Panther, and gaining a short stalemate with Iron Fist. Bucky doesn't have any technical showings to put him in Daredevil's league, and his fights against skilled opponents don't actually lend to that idea either as well.

Knowing and actually being able to do what you know against your opponent are two different things, Bucky's at a level where I think we now both agree that DD isn't going to be able to easily pressure point him. When it comes down to it, both combatants are going to be using striking techniques to take each other down like they have against a number of their opponents, and again like I said, Bucky's suit gives him the durability advantage to soak those strikes up. Bucky's arm gives him the ability to take DD out with one strike if landed anywhere on the body.

Even with the impact resistant suit, pressure points are made to work past durability. Matt could have killed the 70 tonner brick Mr. Hyde if he wanted to, and Wolverine recently nonchalantly dropped a class 50+ Stronatian Kid Gladiator using a pressure point with his index finger.Again, I did not bring up Daredevil's advanced showings with the use of pressure points, and being able to paralyze men with sharp blows to try prove that he can injure Bucky with the aforementioned attacks. I brought them up to substantiate the assertion that Matthew has better technical showings and is a superior martial artist to Winter Soldier. I'm not even arguing the outcome of the fight, just pointing out why some have given Daredevil a skill edge over Bucky mate.

#40 Edited by SlimJ87D (9662 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08:

I was not referring to their one on ones, I was referring to when Hawkeye and Wolverine were trying to take Bucky down. Hawkeye commented that he didn't know Bucky was that good, and Wolverine said he's been holding back this whole time. It doesn't sound like you're familiar with this confrontation nor do you understand how I'm presenting the amount of skill Bucky displayed throughout the confrontation, being able to catch hawkeyes arrows at night time while they were fired from behind him and again in the dark being capable of firing and shooting out 3 of hawkeyes arrows from behind.

The 10/10 against Wolverine, the same thing can be said with DD.

At this point, I understand why you're trying to use pressure points to prove that Matt has more martial ability. I'm pointing out that it does not prove anything. People in the UFC with purple belts have beaten people with black belts in BJJ. DD has never done some kind of advance form of martial ability of striking that Bucky hasn't performed has he?

Your response was from my statement asking what makes DD far and beyond Bucky in skill here. I don't see anything besides speculation being built off of pressure point knowledge.

If you want a good example of someone that actually puts styles of martial arts to counter other martial arts, that would be someone like Iron Fist who also as a bonus, happens to be able to do pressure point strikes in combat against Davos, someone that trained along side him since they were children. Iron Fist is someone I would use the argument that having more martial arts knowledge is definitely advantageous because his martial arts knowledge and countering has been elaborated on.

For the record, that Iron Fist stalemate with DD was Danny not fighting as the Iron Fist but mimicking DD and holding back because of confusion.

#41 Posted by mjolnirson (1173 posts) - - Show Bio

daredevil stomps, even with his metal arm DD is a better h2h fighter.

#42 Edited by SlimJ87D (9662 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08:

I know we're trying to forget the pressure point thing, but I just wanted to throw this in there as a cool fact. Here it's revealed that Bucky knows Russian Systema, a martial art built off of joint manipulation and guess what, pressure points. This whole martial art is built off of pressure points. You can go and read up on it and or watch videos,

#43 Edited by Wolverine08 (41107 posts) - - Show Bio

@slimj87d:

I was not referring to their one on ones, I was referring to when Hawkeye and Wolverine were trying to take Bucky down. Hawkeye commented that he didn't know Bucky was that good, and Wolverine said he's been holding back this whole time. It doesn't sound like you're familiar with this confrontation nor do you understand how I'm presenting the amount of skill Bucky displayed throughout the confrontation, being able to catch hawkeyes arrows at night time while they were fired from behind him and again in the dark being capable of firing and shooting out 3 of hawkeyes arrows from behind.

Winter Soldier being able to catch three of Hawkeye's arrows and do so again in are reflex related feats, not skilled related, and Daredevil can match Winter Soldier tit for tat in regards to reflexes, His Radar Sense lets him feel attacks before they even come.

The aforementioned Radar Sense has given Daredevil a great enough reaction time that he regularly bats bullets out of the air after they have been fired.

Daredevil has deflected projectiles from marksmen that are just as good, if not better than Hawkeye like Bullseye as well.

The 10/10 against Wolverine, the same thing can be said with DD.

In a one one one fight with no context, Wolverine would slaughter Daredevil with a heinous amount of ease. Problem is that I'm not trying affirm Daredevil's martial talent by saying he has held his own against Wolverine like you are with Winter Soldier. If I did really want to go down that route, I could just point out that Daredevil has managed to outmaneuver Wolverine and a hoard of Hand ninja during Enemy of the State, but I'm not going to kid myself into thinking that Matt would last two minutes in a ring with Wolverine. Wolverine saying that he didn't know Bucky is that good is indeed a nice testament to his skill, but at the end of the day, if Bucky ever had to fight a Wolverine whom wanted to kill him one on one without prep to save him, he would get beaten done in a laughable stomp. Wolverine himself has much better showings of technical skill than Bucky does anyways if you want to really compared them, and he's done stuff Bucky most likely can't replicate like stomping Captain America while weakened. Wolverine is in a different weight class than Bucky, and trying to use him as a prop for Bucky's ability to hang with Daredevil doesn't bode well with me.

At this point, I understand why you're trying to use pressure points to prove that Matt has more martial ability. I'm pointing out that it does not prove anything. People in the UFC with purple belts have beaten people with black belts in BJJ. DD has never done some kind of advance form of martial ability of striking that Bucky hasn't performed has he?

Your response was from my statement asking what makes DD far and beyond Bucky in skill here. I don't see anything besides speculation being built off of pressure point knowledge.

For one, I never said that Daredevil is "far and beyond" Winter Soldier skill wise. That be an insult to Bucky and his clearly formidable level of skill. I believe that Matt is superior in that regard, but Bucky can most definitely compete. Your UFC fighter comparison isn't very good when you factor in what we are debating here. Comic book martial arts and the reality of martial arts in the real world are vastly different. People can't master every martial art that exists, pressure point attacks are more ghee wiz stuff than anything, etc. Application of martial skill in comics and real life are not comparable in any way, shape, or form. I am not relying solely on pressure point attacks. I don't have to frankly. Matt knows how to paralyze people with sharp blows.

More of that god technical skill right there. Here's the thing, in comic books, pressure points have been used to demonstrate advanced technical skill. Bucky knowing a martial art that makes use of pressure points again does not make him an equal to Daredevil technically. People in comics have learned pressure points, but there application of them is not all equal. The extent of application determines the level of technical skill the pressure point user is repping. Bring me Bucky's application of pressure points to an extent like this:

Daredevil also evidently makes better use of his technical skill than Winter Soldier considering that he has better showings against top tiers than Bucky. Again, he's stalemated Iron Fist, gotten the upperhand on Black Panther, and gotten the upperhand on Captain America while not going all out to boot. He does stuff like hold his own against Taskmaster one on one, and has kept up with Tony while handling other costumed fighters. This is the Taskmaster that hangs with Captain America and Winter Soldier at the same time.

Iron Fist is someone I would use the argument that having more martial arts knowledge is definitely advantageous because his martial arts knowledge and countering has been elaborated on.

The problem with this statement is that it works directly against Bucky here. Daredevil's martial training with Stick has been expounded on far more thoroughly than it has been with Winter Soldier if you do that comparison.

For the record, that Iron Fist stalemate with DD was Danny not fighting as the Iron Fist but mimicking DD and holding back because of confusion.

Iron Fist was trying to mimick Daredevil's fighting style, and no, he was not holding back whatsoever. He was confused, but he was not holding back. He even tried to hit Matt with a chi amped punch. The Chi amped punches that can wreck cars at lower levels.

Again, I'm not commenting on the fight, just pointing out why I think Matt is a bit better skill wise.

#44 Posted by SlimJ87D (9662 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08:

I don't understand what's wrong with my UFC analogy when you're the one that is trying to base a comparison between the two with martial arts knowledge. I'm returning your logic right back to you.

Again, show me where DD was capable of using pressure points on someone of Bucky's skill level. The Iron Fist comparison was of Iron Fist actually fighting a highly skilled martial arts opponent that knows various styles and besting him. DD has never shown to do that against any opponent as martially skilled as even Davos.

DD didn't stalemate Iron Fist, nothing came of that fight at all.

For your last statement, fair enough. My point is that Bucky has a suit that negates damage and has a arm that can destroy metal. I don't think DD has ever defeated someone with a track record like Bucky. That is showing that he's far above and beyond Clint Barton, Falcon, Crossbones and Batroc the leaper. These are guys that Bucky schooled and had no problems with whatsoever. I myself said that I would give it to DD if they were equal in all stats because DD has more high level feats displayed than Bucky does, but that's not the case here. DD is dealing with someone that is close to him in skill that has a durability and strength advantage. His only leverage is only being slightly more skilled and that's it. He would have to be far superior in H2H to make strength and durability worth nothing at all which is why I asked the question here. What has DD done that puts him above and beyond Bucky in skill to negate the strength and durability difference here? I think that's a better question.

#45 Posted by MonsterStomp (16949 posts) - - Show Bio

Cool CaV

#46 Posted by dondave (36506 posts) - - Show Bio

^^^Lol

Online
#47 Posted by Wolverine08 (41107 posts) - - Show Bio

@slimj87d: So, you're saying you agree now that Matt is marginally more skilled combatant than Bucky? That's all I was getting at man :)

#48 Posted by Wolverine08 (41107 posts) - - Show Bio
#49 Posted by Vance Astro (91196 posts) - - Show Bio

@slimj87d said:

@vance_astro: Your first point was actually addressed in my debate when I said "it can go both ways" for the both of them. When it came to debating skill, I was only debating that they are equals. They're pretty even in the skill department, besides showings of Bucky schooling Clint like fodder and taking on Hawkeye and Wolverine at the same time, Wolverine put both Daredevil and Bucky on the same level as each other. Neither has really easily defeated an opponent on each others level, so I'm basing my opinion on them being close to evenly skilled, and putting the odds on gear.

Bucky's suit is impact and bullet proof like his Captain America suit, it was upgraded when he gave up the Captain America persona and became a free agent working for Nick Fury. He got thrown into brick walls that fell apart on him by a super powered Gorilla (the one Red Hulk killed), and was blown through a book case against a metal wall by Dr. Doom. There, he said even though he had a impact resistant suit, he still felt the pain of a sledge hammer hitting him. Bucky has his mechanical arm.

For any blow that Daredevil lands on Bucky will do less damage than any blow Bucky lands on Daredevil. It doesn't help that Bucky has the mechanical arm that can one shot either.

I should have edited my post before I put it down. I just saw the points you were making and went in, without reading the whole thing. I kind of just skimmed through it.

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#50 Edited by SlimJ87D (9662 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08: No, I don't think I ever said Matt was marginally better than Bucky anywhere. But to you and @vance_astro Maybe you guys are right, maybe I'm just bias. I know I have my logic and reasoning behind why I think Bucky takes this scenario, but I don't like being bias so I'll give up at this point.