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#1 Posted by SSJLozza (1528 posts) - - Show Bio

1. Ordinary Willow (S7) vs non-Elder Wand Voldemort

2. Dark Full power Willow vs Elder Wand Voldemort

Personally I say Willow takes both, but I haven't read HP since I was a kid so I'm unsure.

#2 Posted by rpottage (899 posts) - - Show Bio

Willow stomps both rounds.

#3 Posted by SSJLozza (1528 posts) - - Show Bio

@rpottage said:

Willow stomps both rounds.

Yeah that's what I thought.

#4 Posted by The Stegman (25961 posts) - - Show Bio

Not a stomp, people throw that word around too much, to me, Voldemort has more speed feats than S7 Willow. 

#5 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

Dark Willow wins.

#6 Posted by SSJLozza (1528 posts) - - Show Bio

@CadenceV2: Do you not think she takes r1 too?

#7 Posted by rpottage (899 posts) - - Show Bio

@The Stegman said:

Not a stomp, people throw that word around too much, to me, Voldemort has more speed feats than S7 Willow.

Season 7 Willow broke centuries old spells, tapped into the power of a Goddess, and imbued over 1800 girls with the power of the slayers; she magically fought one of "the powers that be", had revived the dead, cursed a Vampire with a soul twice (which had only been done once before by gypsies), merged four people into one superbeing, has visions, and accidentally warps reality so that she is out of sync with Buffy and her friends.

Voldemort, on the other hand, was defeated by an unarmed baby; and later killed himself through incompetence/ignorance.

Yeah, it's a stomp.

#8 Posted by The Stegman (25961 posts) - - Show Bio
@rpottage said:

@The Stegman said:

Not a stomp, people throw that word around too much, to me, Voldemort has more speed feats than S7 Willow.

Season 7 Willow broke centuries old spells, tapped into the power of a Goddess, and imbued over 1800 girls with the power of the slayers; she magically fought one of "the powers that be", had revived the dead, cursed a Vampire with a soul twice (which had only been done once before by gypsies), merged four people into one superbeing, has visions, and accidentally warps reality so that she is out of sync with Buffy and her friends.

Voldemort, on the other hand, was defeated by an unarmed baby; and later killed himself through incompetence/ignorance.

Yeah, it's a stomp.

1. None of what you listed for Willow will at all be helpful in an actual battle. 
 
2. Low Balling Voldemort doesn't help your case at all, he wasn't defeated by an ''unarmed baby'' Harry was protected by his mother's love, that magic rebounded Voldemort's spell, and Voldemort later lost literally due to a technicality, he wasn't the owner of the Elder Wand, Harry was, the wand wouldn't attack it's owner, so it rebounded Voldemort's spell against him.  
 
In the Show, the actual COMBAT feats Willow shows are blasting dark energy, ripping off Warren's skin, and augmenting her strength, that's ONLY Dark Willow. Even then, her speed, as I mentioned, are that of a normal human, Voldemort uses teleportation in his battles, duels at a faster pace and even transmutes and controls his environment to use as an advantage. 
#9 Posted by rpottage (899 posts) - - Show Bio

@The Stegman said:

@rpottage said:

@The Stegman said:

Not a stomp, people throw that word around too much, to me, Voldemort has more speed feats than S7 Willow.

Season 7 Willow broke centuries old spells, tapped into the power of a Goddess, and imbued over 1800 girls with the power of the slayers; she magically fought one of "the powers that be", had revived the dead, cursed a Vampire with a soul twice (which had only been done once before by gypsies), merged four people into one superbeing, has visions, and accidentally warps reality so that she is out of sync with Buffy and her friends.

Voldemort, on the other hand, was defeated by an unarmed baby; and later killed himself through incompetence/ignorance.

Yeah, it's a stomp.

1. None of what you listed for Willow will at all be helpful in an actual battle. 2. Low Balling Voldemort doesn't help your case at all, he wasn't defeated by an ''unarmed baby'' Harry was protected by his mother's love, that magic rebounded Voldemort's spell, and Voldemort later lost literally due to a technicality, he wasn't the owner of the Elder Wand, Harry was, the wand wouldn't attack it's owner, so it rebounded Voldemort's spell against him. In the Show, the actual COMBAT feats Willow shows are blasting dark energy, ripping off Warren's skin, and augmenting her strength, that's ONLY Dark Willow. Even then, her speed, as I mentioned, are that of a normal human, Voldemort uses teleportation in his battles, duels at a faster pace and even transmutes and controls his environment to use as an advantage.

1) All of what I used as examples show that she's extremely powerful. In case you forgot she also absorbed all the knowledge from the books in the magic shop, she's created very powerful shields, her magic accidentally screwed with her friends and nearly got them all killed; oh, and most importantly, she viciously attacked Glory (including with shards of glass) and caused her pain which nobody else had been able to do. In case you forgot; Glory was a Goddess who's durability was great enough that she withstood a building falling on her. Willow attacked her with a mirror (using a spell to shatter it and fly at glory), a bag of knives, trapped her with a spell, and magically electrocuted her.

2. That's not lowballing. That literally was an unnarmed baby; and the later "technicality" was explained to him by Harry in advance. Which means he was ignorant of the technicality, and incompetent enough to not care.

In fact if you want to get technical on the first art of it (the baby part) then it shows Voldemort is not powerful enough to overcome ancient magic like that. Willow was.

Nope; completely wrong. See point one where I point out she had combat feats against Glory. Season 5, episode: Tough Love. And that was before she had two more years to gain power.

Willow also controls the environment. See the episode where she created both fire and rain. As for speed; Voldemort's way out classed. Even if Willow is only able to react at human speeds; Voldemort can only attack at human spell casting speeds. While Willow can simply affect things with her magic; Voldemort has to actually use spells. Spells which she can block with her shields while attacking through her shields with powerful electricity that can hurt even seemingly invulnerable gods. Face it, he's horribly outclassed.

#10 Posted by The Stegman (25961 posts) - - Show Bio
@rpottage:  
 


1) All of what I used as examples show that she's extremely powerful. In case you forgot she also absorbed all the knowledge from the books in the magic shop, she's created very powerful shields, her magic accidentally screwed with her friends and nearly got them all killed; oh, and most importantly, she viciously attacked Glory (including with shards of glass) and caused her pain which nobody else had been able to do. In case you forgot; Glory was a Goddess who's durability was great enough that she withstood a building falling on her. Willow attacked her with a mirror (using a spell to shatter it and fly at glory), a bag of knives, trapped her with a spell, and magically electrocuted her.

2. That's not lowballing. That literally was an unnarmed baby; and the later "technicality" was explained to him by Harry in advance. Which means he was ignorant of the technicality, and incompetent enough to not care.

In fact if you want to get technical on the first art of it (the baby part) then it shows Voldemort is not powerful enough to overcome ancient magic like that. Willow was.

Nope; completely wrong. See point one where I point out she had combat feats against Glory. Season 5, episode: Tough Love. And that was before she had two more years to gain power.

Willow also controls the environment. See the episode where she created both fire and rain. As for speed; Voldemort's way out classed. Even if Willow is only able to react at human speeds; Voldemort can only attack at human spell casting speeds. While Willow can simply affect things with her magic; Voldemort has to actually use spells. Spells which she can block with her shields while attacking through her shields with powerful electricity that can hurt even seemingly invulnerable gods. Face it, he's horribly outclassed.  

1. This isn't a battle over who has more magically deverse skill sets, but who'd win in a fight, re ensouling Angel, will NOT help her in a battle, linking her friends with Buffy will NOT help her in a battle, accidentally screwing with her friends perception of her will NOT help in a battle, Activating the slayers across the world with the Scythe, will NOT help her in a battle. Yes, she threw shards of glass at Glory, but because Glory ''felt' it, doesn't mean it would have taken her down, and it's not like Voldemort can't simply cast a shield to counter a few shards of glass. Heck, Giles was able to incapacitate Dark Willow with a binding spell, Voldemort can do the same, or use Avada Kedavra, or Stupefy, or tons of other spells with a flick of his wand.  Willow Absorbed dark magic from books, but she also drained it very quickly, the more power she used, the more she'd have to recharge, Voldemort doesn't have that weakness.   
2. Yes, it is lowballing, you're taking a specific circumstance, and using it to show him as weak, when in actuality, the reasons behind that circumstance was very crucial. Harry''s mother protected him with her life, creating a sort of magical barrier around him, thus when Voldemort tried to kill him, his spell rebounded. Second, so what if the wand's alliance was explained to him, Voldemort obviously didn't believe it, he's arrogant, that's a fact, he thought he was the wand's master, not the other way around. No matter if he knew or not, he loss to a technicality, not due to Harry's skill, or his own weakness.  
 
3. As I said, throwing glass can be countered, unintentionally casting a spell on her friends is not a combat feat, and she has displayed nothing to suggest she can keep up with a dueling Voldemort. 
 
4. Voldemort has actually shown to be in wizard duels, he is used to fight at fast paces, Willow is not, and hasn't shown to be able to at this point in the series. As I said before, she hasn't shown ANY of her abilities in actual combat, controlling the environment? Name one time when she used this in a fight. Any attack she throws at him, whether it's energy blasts or glass, he will dodge, however the same can't be said for her.   If this was a battle of "who could unitentionally cast powerful spells" then Willow might have him unclassed, but in a fight, no, she doesn't.
 
Here's an example of a wizard duel.  
 
  
#11 Posted by rpottage (899 posts) - - Show Bio

I had a nice, detailed response; but the page froze when I first tried to add a picture, so I'll cut to the chase. What on earth could Voldemort possibly do if Willow instantly and effortlessly conjures a powerful energy barrier (seen in the pic) capable of withstanding multiple powerful attacks from demonic creatures? (Which would then easily block Voldemort's spells; as we already know that barriers and weak shields can block them), then does this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GM30v8tG2c

#12 Posted by zr0c00l (856 posts) - - Show Bio

willow destroys voldemort. her magic is instant in her more powerful state, no spell no enchantment, just bam! no skin. this guy tom couldnt even take out a woman and a baby, hes beyond lame as a wizard.

#13 Posted by TERMINATORFAN (1250 posts) - - Show Bio

@zr0c00l said:

willow destroys voldemort. her magic is instant in her more powerful state, no spell no enchantment, just bam! no skin. this guy tom couldnt even take out a woman and a baby, hes beyond lame as a wizard.

#14 Posted by Kingjohnrocks (2008 posts) - - Show Bio

Wow, there's so much hate for Voldemort.

You guys have to understand that when we're crossing characters from two different universes, we have to make exceptions. We can't just say that Voldemort doesn't beat Willow because Willow can supposedly cast a spell quickly (no one can show me he can). They're from two different places and we have to alter things so the battle can take place. Otherwise there's no point. Can't just say Willow's magic is greater than Harry Potter magic because they've never interacted.

As for the actual battle, it's never been said that you can't do physical harm to Willow and there are a bunch of things that Voldemort can do to harm Willow without uttering a word. And this is because, neither side can deny it, Voldemort has had a wider and more varied application of magic. Not just the killing spell. ie Mind Control

He teleports at a thought, so I doubt Willow is gonna be able to touch him with anything. And, guess what, he can fly.

Voldemort can just turn an inanimate object into a soldier. Cast a binding spell on Willow so he can't move. Cast a babbling curse on him so he can't say anything. Use a Connjuctivitis Charm to gouge his eyes out. Which is what Krum used on a dragon during the Triwizard tournament. Transfigure a simple tree into an ally. Or maybe just cast a Crucio for unbearable pain. And mind control is always the easiest thing. Or maybe a couple of 50 ft flame serpents. Voldemort's repertoire isn't limited to Avada Kedavra and he makes that obvious in the books. He said himself he needs a fuel to make fire. One word and Willow is done. Oh and did I mention the Jelly Jinx that would render Willow's legs useless?

You guys don't understand that the reason Willow seems so powerful is the fact that they're worlds are different. The people in Harry Potter face ultra powerful evenly matched magic wielding wizards all the time which is why it doesn't seem as that much of a great feat. But Dumbledore is like one wizard in a small career pool in middle earth. While the people in Harry potter have to deal with an army of death eaters that fly around teleporting all over the place while each is wielding an instant kill curse. Now explain to me this, Ds. At one point it even said he would have died if he jumped down because he was surrounded and trapped in a tree. If you put Hermoine Granger in that situation, it definitely wouldn't have been a problem. would have been dead in a couple of minutes. Either by Voldemort turning that tree into his own personal slave by transmuting it, making a giant all engulfing snake flame demon(remember what malfoy did) or killing them off one by one with Avada Kedavra while they run away. See, that's the thing. Plus, Imperius, Fire hexes, etc should finish off Willow.

#15 Posted by Kingjohnrocks (2008 posts) - - Show Bio

@SSJLozza said:

@rpottage said:

Willow stomps both rounds.

Yeah that's what I thought.

Why create a fight that's bias to another character? If you do a battle you should think both can win. Obviously your a simple HP hater and will continue to make threads to degrade it. Well I will be right there to give you cold hard feats.

#16 Posted by zr0c00l (856 posts) - - Show Bio

@Kingjohnrocks: he would have no time to pull his wand and wave it around before he was a skinless man. willow can do that instantly. all hp spells i seen needed a wand and an enchantment of some kind, thus curb stomp. also even if she chose not to she has all manner of magical ability. in s7 she was greatly inhibitted because the first evil was messing with her magics. she can change any thing animate or inanimate into anything else she wantswith a wave of her hand. she did this during season 6 effortlessly. she can make powerful shield, use tk and tp, mind control. raise the dead. augment her strength and speed and fly. tom with all his bluster couldnt kill anyone, hes totally feat less in this regard hes beaten no wizards of note and gets killed like every book and movie by a kid who isnt even the best or most powerful at his school for kid wizards.

#17 Posted by Kingjohnrocks (2008 posts) - - Show Bio

he would have no time to pull his wand and wave it around before he was a skinless man

Just the pointing of a wand can trigger a mental attack.

willow can do that instantly. all hp spells i seen needed a wand and an enchantment of some kind, thus curb stomp

Enchantment? Wand? Are you serious?

Dumbledore and Voldemort have done wandless magic.

lso even if she chose not to she has all manner of magical ability. in s7 she was greatly inhibitted because the first evil was messing with her magics. she can change any thing animate or inanimate into anything else she wantswith a wave of her hand

I still don't see what's stopping Voldemort from casting a load of fire hexes, teleporting at thought and fighting at thought to keep her off balance, then using avada kedavra.

she did this during season 6 effortlessly. she can make powerful shield, use tk and tp, mind control. raise the dead. augment her strength and speed and fly. tom with all his bluster couldnt kill anyone, hes totally feat less in this regard

Featless? Being able to use wandless magic, create curses, hexes, jinxs, put someone under mind control, use a killing curse are all feats. Being able to fly, teleport at thought, fight at thought is a feat. Voldemort is far from featless, bud.

beaten no wizards of note and gets killed like every book and movie by a kid who isnt even the best or most powerful at his school for kid wizards.

1. aFTER dumbledore died after all 3 of the Deathly Hallows Harry became the most powerful wizard at his school, they even called him the Death Master.

2. He did not get killed in every book.

Wow, your post isn't even worth a detailed response.

#18 Posted by zr0c00l (856 posts) - - Show Bio

@Kingjohnrocks: he still hasnt beat any wizards of note. harry might be all those things after but thats irrelevant since voldemorts never beat him. he couldnt even get him as a baby......awww his mothers love protected him....lol thats cute, also sounds like an excuse for not being strong enough to kill woman and a baby. give it up hes really got nothing going for him in this one. i could be wrong but please do tell me of any wizards he has defeated. then tell me how hes gonna beat one that powerful demons and gods/godesses have been more than impressed or scared of.

#19 Posted by theONEtaichou (1564 posts) - - Show Bio

@Kingjohnrocks said:

he would have no time to pull his wand and wave it around before he was a skinless man

Just the pointing of a wand can trigger a mental attack.

willow can do that instantly. all hp spells i seen needed a wand and an enchantment of some kind, thus curb stomp

Enchantment? Wand? Are you serious?

Dumbledore and Voldemort have done wandless magic.

lso even if she chose not to she has all manner of magical ability. in s7 she was greatly inhibitted because the first evil was messing with her magics. she can change any thing animate or inanimate into anything else she wantswith a wave of her hand

I still don't see what's stopping Voldemort from casting a load of fire hexes, teleporting at thought and fighting at thought to keep her off balance, then using avada kedavra.

she did this during season 6 effortlessly. she can make powerful shield, use tk and tp, mind control. raise the dead. augment her strength and speed and fly. tom with all his bluster couldnt kill anyone, hes totally feat less in this regard

Featless? Being able to use wandless magic, create curses, hexes, jinxs, put someone under mind control, use a killing curse are all feats. Being able to fly, teleport at thought, fight at thought is a feat. Voldemort is far from featless, bud.

beaten no wizards of note and gets killed like every book and movie by a kid who isnt even the best or most powerful at his school for kid wizards.

1. aFTER dumbledore died after all 3 of the Deathly Hallows Harry became the most powerful wizard at his school, they even called him the Death Master.

2. He did not get killed in every book.

Wow, your post isn't even worth a detailed response.

You are wasting your time buddy... He is asking for wizards of note! I suppose you could ask who did Willow beat OF NOTE?! I suppose throwing tractor trailers into non-magical powered opponents is noteworthy!!

#20 Posted by rpottage (899 posts) - - Show Bio

@Kingjohnrocks said:

Wow, there's so much hate for Voldemort.

You guys have to understand that when we're crossing characters from two different universes, we have to make exceptions. We can't just say that Voldemort doesn't beat Willow because Willow can supposedly cast a spell quickly (no one can show me he can). They're from two different places and we have to alter things so the battle can take place. Otherwise there's no point. Can't just say Willow's magic is greater than Harry Potter magic because they've never interacted.

As for the actual battle, it's never been said that you can't do physical harm to Willow and there are a bunch of things that Voldemort can do to harm Willow without uttering a word. And this is because, neither side can deny it, Voldemort has had a wider and more varied application of magic. Not just the killing spell. ie Mind Control

He teleports at a thought, so I doubt Willow is gonna be able to touch him with anything. And, guess what, he can fly.

Voldemort can just turn an inanimate object into a soldier. Cast a binding spell on Willow so he can't move. Cast a babbling curse on him so he can't say anything. Use a Connjuctivitis Charm to gouge his eyes out. Which is what Krum used on a dragon during the Triwizard tournament. Transfigure a simple tree into an ally. Or maybe just cast a Crucio for unbearable pain. And mind control is always the easiest thing. Or maybe a couple of 50 ft flame serpents. Voldemort's repertoire isn't limited to Avada Kedavra and he makes that obvious in the books. He said himself he needs a fuel to make fire. One word and Willow is done. Oh and did I mention the Jelly Jinx that would render Willow's legs useless?

You guys don't understand that the reason Willow seems so powerful is the fact that they're worlds are different. The people in Harry Potter face ultra powerful evenly matched magic wielding wizards all the time which is why it doesn't seem as that much of a great feat. But Dumbledore is like one wizard in a small career pool in middle earth. While the people in Harry potter have to deal with an army of death eaters that fly around teleporting all over the place while each is wielding an instant kill curse. Now explain to me this, Ds. At one point it even said he would have died if he jumped down because he was surrounded and trapped in a tree. If you put Hermoine Granger in that situation, it definitely wouldn't have been a problem. would have been dead in a couple of minutes. Either by Voldemort turning that tree into his own personal slave by transmuting it, making a giant all engulfing snake flame demon(remember what malfoy did) or killing them off one by one with Avada Kedavra while they run away. See, that's the thing. Plus, Imperius, Fire hexes, etc should finish off Willow.

No.

No.

Denied. (Never seen Tom raise the dead)

No, he apparates; very different. (For one, apparating can't get you inside magical energy barrier; the kind Willow create).

She can also fly (see video).

She can create soldiers out of nothing, growing snake-like creatures from the gounrd (As she did against Glory).

Nope; all of those spells are rendered utterly useless by her shields (they can tank hits from powerful demonic creatures; simply spells that are easily countered by other spells are nothing to it).

Nope; the reason she seems so powerful is because the writers made her powerful; most confirmed as most powerful on the seaboard at one point. This is due to the writers agenda of making all the girls in the show extremely powerful to fulfill their agenda of creating a pro-girl message. (Whedon admitted he ignored continuity in the last episode precisely for that reason).

Willow instantly raises her energy barrier which tanks anything Voldemort can think up; and electrocutes him through it like she did to Glory. Glory, a seemingly invulnerable Goddess who was unfazed by a building falling on her, was in pain from the attack. Voldemort, a mortal, would be dropped in an instant.

#21 Posted by DangerousLoki (714 posts) - - Show Bio

@Kingjohnrocks: Show me this feat of Voldemort and Dumbledore using wandless magic. I've never heard of anything like that in the Harry Potter universe. Is it in the book or the movie? Oh let's not forget since the Buffy comics are cannon with the series you can also use feats from those for Willow. Or at least I believe the comics are canon, correct me if I'm wrong but pretty sure Whedon's stated this

#22 Posted by theONEtaichou (1564 posts) - - Show Bio

@rpottage said:

@Kingjohnrocks said:

Wow, there's so much hate for Voldemort.

You guys have to understand that when we're crossing characters from two different universes, we have to make exceptions. We can't just say that Voldemort doesn't beat Willow because Willow can supposedly cast a spell quickly (no one can show me he can). They're from two different places and we have to alter things so the battle can take place. Otherwise there's no point. Can't just say Willow's magic is greater than Harry Potter magic because they've never interacted.

As for the actual battle, it's never been said that you can't do physical harm to Willow and there are a bunch of things that Voldemort can do to harm Willow without uttering a word. And this is because, neither side can deny it, Voldemort has had a wider and more varied application of magic. Not just the killing spell. ie Mind Control

He teleports at a thought, so I doubt Willow is gonna be able to touch him with anything. And, guess what, he can fly.

Voldemort can just turn an inanimate object into a soldier. Cast a binding spell on Willow so he can't move. Cast a babbling curse on him so he can't say anything. Use a Connjuctivitis Charm to gouge his eyes out. Which is what Krum used on a dragon during the Triwizard tournament. Transfigure a simple tree into an ally. Or maybe just cast a Crucio for unbearable pain. And mind control is always the easiest thing. Or maybe a couple of 50 ft flame serpents. Voldemort's repertoire isn't limited to Avada Kedavra and he makes that obvious in the books. He said himself he needs a fuel to make fire. One word and Willow is done. Oh and did I mention the Jelly Jinx that would render Willow's legs useless?

You guys don't understand that the reason Willow seems so powerful is the fact that they're worlds are different. The people in Harry Potter face ultra powerful evenly matched magic wielding wizards all the time which is why it doesn't seem as that much of a great feat. But Dumbledore is like one wizard in a small career pool in middle earth. While the people in Harry potter have to deal with an army of death eaters that fly around teleporting all over the place while each is wielding an instant kill curse. Now explain to me this, Ds. At one point it even said he would have died if he jumped down because he was surrounded and trapped in a tree. If you put Hermoine Granger in that situation, it definitely wouldn't have been a problem. would have been dead in a couple of minutes. Either by Voldemort turning that tree into his own personal slave by transmuting it, making a giant all engulfing snake flame demon(remember what malfoy did) or killing them off one by one with Avada Kedavra while they run away. See, that's the thing. Plus, Imperius, Fire hexes, etc should finish off Willow.

No.

No.

Denied. (Never seen Tom raise the dead)

No, he apparates; very different. (For one, apparating can't get you inside magical energy barrier; the kind Willow create).

She can also fly (see video).

She can create soldiers out of nothing, growing snake-like creatures from the gounrd (As she did against Glory).

Nope; all of those spells are rendered utterly useless by her shields (they can tank hits from powerful demonic creatures; simply spells that are easily countered by other spells are nothing to it).

Nope; the reason she seems so powerful is because the writers made her powerful; most confirmed as most powerful on the seaboard at one point. This is due to the writers agenda of making all the girls in the show extremely powerful to fulfill their agenda of creating a pro-girl message. (Whedon admitted he ignored continuity in the last episode precisely for that reason).

Willow instantly raises her energy barrier which tanks anything Voldemort can think up; and electrocutes him through it like she did to Glory. Glory, a seemingly invulnerable Goddess who was unfazed by a building falling on her, was in pain from the attack. Voldemort, a mortal, would be dropped in an instant.

All the bolded parts are just conjecture... you have no way to show that Willow's magic or even Buffyverse magic is greater than HPU. Saying her barriers can tank anything Riddle throws at her because demons couldn't get through, demons who also cannot be shown to be at Riddle's level of magic. Heck anyone's level of magic in the HPU? What proof do you have for that? What proof that he can't apparate within her shields (does she even know any anti-apparation spells)? Willow being the most powerful on the seaboard <<<<< Most powerful wizard in the world (after Albus' death anyways)

on the underlined part... will Willow in this fight get PIS as well for her fight with Riddle like she got with Glory??

#23 Posted by rpottage (899 posts) - - Show Bio

No, it's not. Harry Potter makes it quite clear that (Through ignorance or incompetence) Tom's best traps/magics are useless against non-wizards. Specifically the whole "I'm an elf so I use different magic" thing that the house-elf used to get through Tom's barriers. Meanwhile it was also useless against non-magic (walking in). Willow's has no such weaknesses. She also nearly destroyed the earth, ripped a person skin off effortlessly, etc.

She didn't get PIS against Glory; she got pissed. There's a difference. The show makes it very clear Willow simply does not use her full potential till she's pissed off.

Now cut the bullshit; and answer the quest I asked two posts before John even got in this thread: I.E. what the hell can Voldemort do against her in the scenario I provided (which uses a weaker Willow using her full potential).

And again, Tom got his ass kicked by a baby because he was too weak to overcome ancient magic; Willow on the other hand kicked ancient magic's ass as well as revived the dead, among other things. Tom can get his ass killed by a bullet (the writer confirmed this), Willow took an axe to the back and wasn't even phased.

#24 Posted by theONEtaichou (1564 posts) - - Show Bio

@rpottage:

whoa there buddy enough with the strong language. You don't have to cuss to make your point.

@rpottage said:

No, it's not. Harry Potter makes it quite clear that (Through ignorance or incompetence) Tom's best traps/magics are useless against non-wizards. Specifically the whole "I'm an elf so I use different magic" thing that the house-elf used to get through Tom's barriers. Meanwhile it was also useless against non-magic (walking in). Willow's has no such weaknesses. She also nearly destroyed the earth, ripped a person skin off effortlessly, etc.

When did Riddle's best traps/magics fail against non-wizards? Please tell us, which book(s) did that that happen? I say BS to that but I might be wrong so I will wait for your examples where Riddle lays traps/does magic and non-wizards tell him to shove off due to no effect

!@rpottage said:

She didn't get PIS against Glory; she got pissed. There's a difference. The show makes it very clear Willow simply does not use her full potential till she's pissed off.

She got PIS, where was the super speed? None right so the Scooby Gang can win... why didn't Glory just kill them in the beginning of the season and then get what she wants? Made for a compelling Buffy season but PIS nonetheless, in essence Glory should have killed them all the very first instance they all met her... far greater strength than Buffy, speed beyond these guys, shattering Willow's shield with pure strength alone... yeah... if PIS was not involved Glory would have killed Buffy the first time they fought... Willow's level of magic still pales to Glory's as commented on by Giles in 'Shadow'... why didn't Glory use that? P I aahh you get the point

@rpottage said:

Now cut the bullshit; and answer the quest I asked two posts before John even got in this thread: I.E. what the hell can Voldemort do against her in the scenario I provided (which uses a weaker Willow using her full potential).

And again, Tom got his ass kicked by a baby because he was too weak to overcome ancient magic; Willow on the other hand kicked ancient magic's ass as well as revived the dead, among other things. Tom can get his ass killed by a bullet (the writer confirmed this), Willow took an axe to the back and wasn't even phased.

So you lowball HPU (and not even rightly)? Yes I can see why axe to the back>>>bullet to the head! You are right good sir, with logic like that Willow wins this fight...I was going to reply to the many mistakes here but yeah, the lowballing is absurd. Too absurd actually and thus I bid you good day!

#25 Posted by zr0c00l (856 posts) - - Show Bio

@Kingjohnrocks: lol your video of dumbledore had him totally using his wand. they cant do spells without them, nor without using the spell words. willow>voldemort period

#26 Posted by YoungJustice (6919 posts) - - Show Bio

Voldermort without trouble, his spells operate at a faster speed and they are proven to be much more deadlier.

#27 Posted by onilordasmodeus (2612 posts) - - Show Bio

Lol! I imediately thought this was Willow from the movie Willow...LOL!

Buffy's willow would win R2 but loose R1.

#28 Posted by New_World_Order (13516 posts) - - Show Bio

Willow

#29 Posted by SSJLozza (1528 posts) - - Show Bio

@Kingjohnrocks said:

@SSJLozza said:

@rpottage said:

Willow stomps both rounds.

Yeah that's what I thought.

Why create a fight that's bias to another character? If you do a battle you should think both can win. Obviously your a simple HP hater and will continue to make threads to degrade it. Well I will be right there to give you cold hard feats.

No I just think Willow can win but I wasn't sure, I said I thought that but wasn't sure, lol why you a HP fanboy?

#30 Posted by bornstar (1319 posts) - - Show Bio

@rpottage said:

Willow stomps both rounds.

#31 Posted by SSJLozza (1528 posts) - - Show Bio

@YoungJustice said:

Voldermort without trouble, his spells operate at a faster speed and they are proven to be much more deadlier.

Lol what? Willow ripped someone's skin off with her magic!

#32 Posted by HBKTimHBK (5293 posts) - - Show Bio

Willow takes both of these rounds quite easily.

#33 Posted by Kingjohnrocks (2008 posts) - - Show Bio

@zr0c00l said:

@Kingjohnrocks: lol your video of dumbledore had him totally using his wand. they cant do spells without them, nor without using the spell words. willow>voldemort period

Dumbeldore can do wandless magic. Show me a source that says he can't.

In the book Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix it shows Dumbledore doing WANDLESS magic.

Dumbledore was capable of extraordinary feats such as conjuring hundreds of squishy purple sleeping bags to accommodate the students of Hogwarts, without saying a word.

While in the Horcrux Cave, Dumbledore proved capable of foiling the defences set up by Lord Voldemort, using wandless magic. He also performed the Aresto Momentum spell, without a wand, to save Harry from falling to his death at the hands of the Dementors. He could also light and put out candles, both with the wave of his hand.

#34 Posted by Kingjohnrocks (2008 posts) - - Show Bio

@DangerousLoki said:

@Kingjohnrocks: Show me this feat of Voldemort and Dumbledore using wandless magic. I've never heard of anything like that in the Harry Potter universe. Is it in the book or the movie? Oh let's not forget since the Buffy comics are cannon with the series you can also use feats from those for Willow. Or at least I believe the comics are canon, correct me if I'm wrong but pretty sure Whedon's stated this

Voldemort, with a gesture of his hand, moved a giant's body out of his way doing nothing with his wand.

n the Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire film, Voldemort wandlessly knocked Harry to the ground, deflected Harry's disarming charm by waving his hand, and magically lifted Harry from the ground with one hand, apparently applying force to the latter's face whilst forcing him to his feet. He again used wandless magic on Harry in Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix impatiently disarming the boy with a wave of his wand-free hand. In Harry potter and the deathly hallows part 2, Voldemort again used wandless magic to move a dead giant out of the way and to restrain Harry by using his cloak.

#35 Posted by sjean (9 posts) - - Show Bio

love dark willow but I will give it to voldemort for thees reasons.

1, He is actually a darker wizard, him meddling in dark magic was not something he just dived into. he has been meddling in it for years unlike willow where the dark magic because a rush for her because she was pissed about Tera's death. willow only transformed into dark willow because of tera.

2, Voldemort also has more experience for fighting bad guys and other dark wizards. Sure dark willow was powerful in season 6 but she never faced an equally powerful person. Giles was a watcher and Buffy was a slayer. dark willow's power would have been really tested if she had faced glory again or illyra or an actually powerful wizards.

3, Voldemort is a lot older and very manipulative.

4, willow got her dark powers from one book, she put her hand in it and absorbed all the knowledge. voldemort's power's are much more comoplex than that and overall he is the more experienced dark wizard.

so Voldemort will beat willow. willow overall was still a little girl with a lot of rage. she would have struggled if she went up against an older and more experienced dark wizard like Voldemort and no Giles does not count because he was not a wizard.

#36 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (20202 posts) - - Show Bio

Voldemort takes round 1,

Dark willow takes round 2.

Funnily enough, books never showed anything saying elder wand mattered.. people think it's an amp or something..

@sjean said:

love dark willow but I will give it to voldemort for thees reasons.

1, He is actually a darker wizard, him meddling in dark magic was not something he just dived into. he has been meddling in it for years unlike willow where the dark magic because a rush for her because she was pissed about Tera's death. willow only transformed into dark willow because of tera.

2, Voldemort also has more experience for fighting bad guys and other dark wizards. Sure dark willow was powerful in season 6 but she never faced an equally powerful person. Giles was a watcher and Buffy was a slayer. dark willow's power would have been really tested if she had faced glory again or illyra or an actually powerful wizards.

3, Voldemort is a lot older and very manipulative.

4, willow got her dark powers from one book, she put her hand in it and absorbed all the knowledge. voldemort's power's are much more comoplex than that and overall he is the more experienced dark wizard.

1. What inspired them to become dark wizards Doesn't matter in a fight.

2. She did face giles in season 6, while he was backed by a covenant of powerful witches.

3. Do you really think he could manipulate dark willow? She's crazy lol.

4. One book? lol. no. She absorbed a lot of books, then that slimy wizard, whatever his name was, as well as giles's powers.

so Voldemort will beat willow. willow overall was still a little girl with a lot of rage. she would have struggled if she went up against an older and more experienced dark wizard like Voldemort and no Giles does not count because he was not a wizard.

A little girl with a lot of rage who was about the end the world. Voldemort maybe more experienced, but he isn't a match for her in raw power.

He's not beating full dark willow. PIS off, she rips his skin off and erases him easily enough.

In round 1, though, he can stomp her. Normal willow doesn't really have very useful things in a duel, besides the little featless shield. Voldemort is faster than her, and more versatile.

So round 1: Tom. Round 2: Dark willow.

#39 Edited by sjean (9 posts) - - Show Bio

@princearagorn1:

1, Giles said it himself that willow's power came from rage and anger. so it matters.

2, Giles was backed up by witches but he is not a wizard himself. there is a difference. also the witches where probably not dark witches like Willow. Voldemort is a darker wizard, way more dark than willow. he has been one for a long time. more than 20-30 years before willow was even born. It matters.

3, Voldemort or should I say tom riddle was a lot more manipulative. even before he was voldemort. The author of HP did describe voldemort as a raging lunatic himself. both are crazy. Only thing is voldmort was more charming as a manipulator which always lead to him achieving his goals, willow on the other hand seemed quite over confident and a bit arrogant about it. Even Giles called her out on it.

4, Willow absorbed one book. she went into the magic shop attacked anya and took the book and put the everything in the book in her head. Hermione could have done the same thing as well if she wanted to go dark. It was one book.

Voldemort's powers don't work like that, they are more complex even Dumbledore himself said that Voldemort is aware of many dark magics that he himself does not know about. Whearas with Buffy the origins of willow's power's was an open secret.

5, She attacked Giles to try and gain more power but she discovered that the powers she absorbed from Giles were meaningless to her.

6, Ending the world is subjective. any standard wizards or supernatural being can end the world as well. if voldemort wanted to, he could end the world in a Twinkie of an eye but that was not his goal. willow ending the world is nothing new for a villian. dark phoenix from xmen can blow up the whole galaxy. sayins from dragonball z can blow up planets. So willow ending the world is nothing new. In fact it is quite boring and cliche because lots of villian always want to end the world. Voldemort was much more of a hitler kind of person. In fact he is based off hitler.

7, Voldemort been more experienced matters. Its reality. people with more experience get the job done more and are generally better in the area of the job. voldemort is older, wiser, a lot more qualified as a standard wizard in the sense that he went to a powerful wizarding school and was actually born to a pure blooded wizard mother and yea he has more experience. it is organic and natural for him unlike Willow who chose to learn how to do magic. magic runs through his veins. Even when he did not know he was a wizard he displayed great power. Here let me quote you a naive young Voldemort.

I can make bad things happen to people who are mean to me.

I can make people hurt if I want

I can make animals do what I want without training them.

Is that normal for someone like me?

Those where the words of a young voldemort and he has not yet even learned a single spell or even seen a wizard book yet.

Willow on the other hand would not have even known of magic if she did not befriend buffy. in fact the alternate world where Buffy did not come to sunnydale. willow becomes of vampire and dies in the hands of OZ who places her in a stake .

Willows magical powers are synthetic while voldemort's powers are a lot more organic and natural and this puts Voldemort on a higher level than willow. So yes, Willow is always going to be at a disadvantage.

8, In deathly hallows part 1, it was mentioned that a wizard looked Voldemort for a second in the eye and his body immediately disintegrated with no trace of him left. Willow did not show that kind of powerful ability even with shredding a human's skin off. that ability that Voldemort's displayed again another wizard (not human) carries more weight than any ability willow displayed minus wanting to destroy the world.

So how will she rip his skin when she can look him in the eye and get her body turn apart before she can even speak?

Consider it like this. dark willow is like a little girl in a candy store with her dark powers so she went nuclear with it just like how a kid will want to go nuclear in the candy store by trying out every candy in the store.

Voldemort on the other hand has been in the candy for years. he knows everything about the store and about the different candy in the store. he is even bored and tired from eating all the candy while willow been new to the candy store just cant get enough. if they were to fight on who knows about the most candy, Willow will lose the fight.

I love Willow she is one of the best but in no way will she take down voldemort. This whole willow taking down voldemort is just Joss Wheedon's fanboy talk.

If you argue it logically and critically like I have done. it is clear that voldemort will win, its like a kid trying to beat up an adult.

j

#40 Edited by lukehero (11925 posts) - - Show Bio

Ordinary non motivated Willow is going to die a horrible death....Dark Willow just sucks up Voldemort's dark energy for nice snack and moves on....

#41 Edited by PrinceAragorn1 (20202 posts) - - Show Bio

@sjean:

1, Giles said it himself that willow's power came from rage and anger. so it matters.

No. It doesn't. What matters is the power the characters have already shown.

2, Giles was backed up by witches but he is not a wizard himself. there is a difference. also the witches where probably not dark witches like Willow. Voldemort is a darker wizard, way more dark than willow. he has been one for a long time. more than 20-30 years before willow was even born. It matters.

It doesn't matter, because willow's raw power far surpasses voldemort's. Experience isn't enough to bridge the gap.

3, Voldemort or should I say tom riddle was a lot more manipulative. even before he was voldemort. The author of HP did describe voldemort as a raging lunatic himself. both are crazy. Only thing is voldmort was more charming as a manipulator which always lead to him achieving his goals, willow on the other hand seemed quite over confident and a bit arrogant about it. Even Giles called her out on it.

Yes, and again, it doesn't matter. He's isn't manipulating a lunatic who nearly killed her friends and was about to blow up the planet.

4, Willow absorbed one book. she went into the magic shop attacked anya and took the book and put the everything in the book in her head. Hermione could have done the same thing as well if she wanted to go dark. It was one book.

Er.. no. wrong on literally all accounts:

1. That isn't one book. About twenty of them.

2. Hermione, or no wizard in HP ever, has absorbed magic from a book.

3. Again, irrelevant. Even if she had just absorbed a single page, what matters is how much power it gave her. Answer is, enough to beat voldemort.

Voldemort's powers don't work like that, they are more complex even Dumbledore himself said that Voldemort is aware of many dark magics that he himself does not know about. Whearas with Buffy the origins of willow's power's was an open secret.

Nice. Doesn't matter considering willow is far more powerful right now.

5, She attacked Giles to try and gain more power but she discovered that the powers she absorbed from Giles were meaningless to her.

No, they were a little too much for her. Irrelevant anyway.

6, Ending the world is subjective. any standard wizards or supernatural being can end the world as well. if voldemort wanted to, he could end the world in a Twinkie of an eye but that was not his goal. willow ending the world is nothing new for a villian. dark phoenix from xmen can blow up the whole galaxy. sayins from dragonball z can blow up planets. So willow ending the world is nothing new. In fact it is quite boring and cliche because lots of villian always want to end the world. Voldemort was much more of a hitler kind of person. In fact he is based off hitler.

Heck no. Voldemort, even if he spends an entire lifetime, won't be a threat to a planet. Put all the feats of harry power character put together, and they aren't going to even scratch the planet noticeably.

Ending the world is nothing new, but it is sp far out of voldemort's league it's not even funny.

Neither voldemort nor willow even begin to compare with phoenix. Bad example.

7, Voldemort been more experienced matters. Its reality. people with more experience get the job done more and are generally better in the area of the job. voldemort is older, wiser, a lot more qualified as a standard wizard in the sense that he went to a powerful wizarding school and was actually born to a pure blooded wizard mother and yea he has more experience. it is organic and natural for him unlike Willow who chose to learn how to do magic. magic runs through his veins. Even when he did not know he was a wizard he displayed great power. Here let me quote you a naive young Voldemort.

I can make bad things happen to people who are mean to me.

I can make people hurt if I want

I can make animals do what I want without training them.

Is that normal for someone like me?

Those where the words of a young voldemort and he has not yet even learned a single spell or even seen a wizard book yet.

Funny thing is, wizards are far more powerful at young age, or with unconscious magic. Take neville for example:

As a kid: Was protected from a fall.

Great Uncle Algie came round for dinner, and he was hanging me out of an upstairs window by the ankles when my Great Auntie Enid offered him a meringue and he accidentally let go. But I bounced — all the way down the garden and into the road.

-Harry Potter and the philosopher's stone.

As a boy: Broke his arm falling.

WHAM — a thud and a nasty crack and Neville lay facedown on the grass in a heap. His broomstick was still rising higher and higher, and started to drift lazily toward the forbidden forest and out of sight.

Madam Hooch was bending over Neville, her face as white as his.

“Broken wrist,” Harry heard her mutter. “Come on, boy — it’s all right, up you get.”

-Harry Potter and philosopher's stone.

Willow on the other hand would not have even known of magic if she did not befriend buffy. in fact the alternate world where Buffy did not come to sunnydale. willow becomes of vampire and dies in the hands of OZ who places her in a stake .

You do know how parallel words work, right?

Willows magical powers are synthetic while voldemort's powers are a lot more organic and natural and this puts Voldemort on a higher level than willow. So yes, Willow is always going to be at a disadvantage.

And? willow's powers, synthetic or not, are far greater than voldemort's. That's all that matters.

8, In deathly hallows part 1, it was mentioned that a wizard looked Voldemort for a second in the eye and his body immediately disintegrated with no trace of him left. Willow did not show that kind of powerful ability even with shredding a human's skin off. that ability that Voldemort's displayed again another wizard (not human) carries more weight than any ability willow displayed minus wanting to destroy the world.

No. It wasn't. I have read the book, and no wizard has ever looked into voldemort's eyes and died. Hell, muggles have looked at him, and it failed to do anything to it.

So how will she rip his skin when she can look him in the eye and get her body turn apart before she can even speak?

With a hand gesture. As usual.

Consider it like this. dark willow is like a little girl in a candy store with her dark powers so she went nuclear with it just like how a kid will want to go nuclear in the candy store by trying out every candy in the store.

Voldemort on the other hand has been in the candy for years. he knows everything about the store and about the different candy in the store. he is even bored and tired from eating all the candy while willow been new to the candy store just cant get enough. if they were to fight on who knows about the most candy, Willow will lose the fight.

Difference is, voldemort's candy is gun sized. Willow's is a grenade launcher. It doesn't matter voldemort knows more. Willow's strike force will take him down.

I love Willow she is one of the best but in no way will she take down voldemort. This whole willow taking down voldemort is just Joss Wheedon's fanboy talk.

If you argue it logically and critically like I have done. it is clear that voldemort will win, its like a kid trying to beat up an adult.

Quite the opposite. It's a kid with a nuke vs adult with a knife. Neither his experience, nor his darkness going to save him here.

Logically? Your points are irrelevant, or flat out wrong. Only point, literally, you have is better experience. Not a good time to call anyone else a fanboy. It's against the rules btw, not flagging considering you're new.

#42 Edited by sjean (9 posts) - - Show Bio

@princearagorn1:

Oh dear this is so funny, I see this debate it turning into a fanboy deabte, were all basic and intelligent logic goes out of the window and denial starts.

1, It was on book. she opened all the books , she took the one she wanted and put her hand in it. so it was one book. the strongest book in the store. you have a picture of her absorbing one book.

2. It is relevant because in HP the magic is beyond books.

3. You are still trying to tear down a character to try and make another character look strong. Voldemort can end the world if he wants to because he is a standard supernatural being. the author could have easily written that in., but like I said earlier, voldemort is based of Hitler, he was not the cliche I want to destory the world villian. Hitler did not want to destroy the world. he wanted supremacy all over the world.

You are talking without depth because neither characters are real we are debating on them based on what we have seen.

you say no HP wizard can scratch the planet yet you are forgetting that voldemort took down a whole town in deathly hallow one with his magic and the death eaters destroyed a parts of London in book 6.

4, Comparing it with the phoenix is a good example because they all have superntural powers, wizrds, jedis, sayins, phoenix they are all supernatural beings.

I see you can continue to the debate without depth. the fact that voldemort powers are organic does put on a higher plane than willow. so it matters, you denying it just make me win the debate even more.

Wizards are not more powerful at a young age that is ridiculous and a lie.... at least in the HP world. if it were true they won't need to go to wizard schools or want to become aurors, also a course like ordinary wearing level would not exist...duh.

So please enough with the lies.

5, Yes, I see parallel words like the wishverse from buffy. Willow was not a witch, she became a vampire and was killed by oz. Voldemort in any world would have been a wizard because his mum was a pure blooded witch born to the wizard world.

7, LMAO....You argue without depth again. no willow's power being syntheti makes her naturally weaker .it will be a fact.

Its like star wars , the reason why anakin was more powerful than other jedis was because he was born with mediclorains cells. his jedi powers were more organic to other jedis and it matters greatly, in fact that was why he was the most powerful jedi who ever lived. so yeah, willow powers being synthetic puts her at a disadvantage. those born with it naturally will show more abilities and being more powerful.

Even win dragon ball z, vegeta states that the reason why goku was more powerful than him was because he was born with a more natural ability than him self. so it matters.

Additional in TV series HEROES, it was stated that the people born with the organic mutated gene are natural on a higher plain than those with the synthetic gene.

Truly, Its like comparing a black woman who is born with light skin to a black woman who is born with a dark skin and then belches her skin to be light. the one born with a lighter skin will always look better and be better overall.

8. In deathly hallow part 1, it was mentioned. JK Rowling and the writer over saw the script to the film and yes a wizard looked voldemort in the eye and he got his body disintegrated not even destroyed. WATCH THE MOVIE.

So yes, that has a more powerful effect than willow ripping of warren's skin.

9. More arguing without depth. my candy reference is more realistic and more clever, voldemort will win the candy fight since he knows more of the candies and has been in the candy store longer unlike willow who is new to the place. Willow bring a powerful machine gun does not add depth to the debate.

EXPERIENCE IS AN IMPORTANT KEY.

LOL............My points where all valid. they fact that you say ther are relevant only makes my point a lot stronger, if this was a life debate, I would have won. you can not attack my point logically so you just rant and you go as far as to deny what both characters have displaced. It the fan boy behaviour.

I like both willow and voldmort but please this is not a dbeate. voldemort will beat willow. its would be like a dad spanking his little girl.

Neither characters are real, we will never see them fight what we can do is look at their overall character traits and it is clear. voldmeort has the advantage.

he has the experience,

he is naturally a more trained dark wiazrd who has fought other powerful wizards unlike willow where there was no one who could match her.

he went to a powerful and one of the best wizard school and studies all kinds of magic and his main love was for dark magic,

Voldmort knows more about dark magic than willow does and yes it gives him more advantage.

he is wiser,

He is a natural born wizard, who did not even need to studied magic to be powerful,

all this things matters. they are not irrelevant. this are the things that add depth to a debate.You can't ignore it because you are desperately biased to another character. all it does it just prove that you are the typical stereotypical fan boy.

#43 Posted by Cregan_Stark (2165 posts) - - Show Bio

I thought this was Willow Ufgood at first lol.

#44 Posted by Funsiized (3726 posts) - - Show Bio

Willow, so much Raw power it's not even funny.

#45 Posted by Bones309 (993 posts) - - Show Bio

Looks like the print is gone on at least 3 of the books in just that shot. I also seem to recall there being a comment that all the books in the shop were blank except the one hidden book.

#46 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (20202 posts) - - Show Bio

@sjean:

Oh dear this is so funny, I see this debate it turning into a fanboy deabte, were all basic and intelligent logic goes out of the window and denial starts.

Stop acting like that then, simple enough.

1, It was on book. she opened all the books , she took the one she wanted and put her hand in it. so it was one book. the strongest book in the store. you have a picture of her absorbing one book.

First, irrelevant. One book, or more, she still outclasses voldemort.

Second, at least three books are blank, and they literally say she drained about everything from the shop, except the hidden books.

2. It is relevant because in HP the magic is beyond books.

The only relevant thing is, it is also far weaker than willow's. HP wizards failing to use power from books wouldn't have mattered if they were actually strong.

3. You are still trying to tear down a character to try and make another character look strong. Voldemort can end the world if he wants to because he is a standard supernatural being. the author could have easily written that in., but like I said earlier, voldemort is based of Hitler, he was not the cliche I want to destory the world villian. Hitler did not want to destroy the world. he wanted supremacy all over the world.

No. Voldemort, all of death eaters, and hogwarts, Put their feats together, and they won't be able to do any noticable damage to the world. If you have any quote saying that voldemort could one shot a city, post it.

Otherwise I could claim 'willow could bust galaxies if she wanted to, she just needed the planet!', so she wins. (Not that I am. Just giving you an example) Claims are useless until they're proven.

You are talking without depth because neither characters are real we are debating on them based on what we have seen.

No, I'm debating on what we've seen. You're changing their powers according to what you think. Give me one single quote saying voldemort could destroy the planet. Heck, give me something saying/showing he's a mountain buster. Or could ever hope to be in his wildest dreams.

you say no HP wizard can scratch the planet yet you are forgetting that voldemort took down a whole town in deathly hallow one with his magic and the death eaters destroyed a parts of London in book 6.

No. He didn't. Provide quotes saying he did.

Either way, london isn't even visible from outer space. Even if all wizards of HP were to team up, they still haven't done anything saying the planet would even notice them attacking..

4, Comparing it with the phoenix is a good example because they all have superntural powers, wizrds, jedis, sayins, phoenix they are all supernatural beings.

One: Supernatural, Wizard, Saiyans. not superntural, wizrds, sayins.

Two: You're comparing a galaxy level (phoenix) character to a wizard who fails to one shot houses (voldemort).

In a debate against willow, who's nothing compared to pheonix, too. Meaning, the example is literally useless.

I see you can continue to the debate without depth. the fact that voldemort powers are organic does put on a higher plane than willow. so it matters, you denying it just make me win the debate even more.

Not at all. A person's hand is organic. Gun is inorganic. Which does more damage? Gun.

Wizards are not more powerful at a young age that is ridiculous and a lie.... at least in the HP world. if it were true they won't need to go to wizard schools or want to become aurors, also a course like ordinary wearing level would not exist...duh.

So please enough with the lies.

Lies? I literally showed you quotes from the books. Magic used under pressure, or Instinctively, or magic used as children, far outclasses magic used normally is far stronger than normal magic:

“Often,” said Mr. Weasley, “when you’re in a pressured situation you can produce magic you never dreamed of. Small children often find, before they’re trained –”

“It wasn’t like that,” said Harry through gritted teeth. His scar was burning.

-Harry potter, and the deathly hallows.

5, Yes, I see parallel words like the wishverse from buffy. Willow was not a witch, she became a vampire and was killed by oz. Voldemort in any world would have been a wizard because his mum was a pure blooded witch born to the wizard world.

In the current world. A parallel universe always has all possibilities. Same could be said about voldemort.

Either way, parallel worlds are non-canon to the thread.

7, LMAO....You argue without depth again. no willow's power being syntheti makes her naturally weaker .it will be a fact.

Give me proof of that. With depth. Syntheti? You mean to say synthetic, right? And I'm talking out of depth? lol.

Its like star wars , the reason why anakin was more powerful than other jedis was because he was born with mediclorains cells. his jedi powers were more organic to other jedis and it matters greatly, in fact that was why he was the most powerful jedi who ever lived. so yeah, willow powers being synthetic puts her at a disadvantage. those born with it naturally will show more abilities and being more powerful.

Irrelevant. Star wars holds no canon to buffy, or HP.

Even win dragon ball z, vegeta states that the reason why goku was more powerful than him was because he was born with a more natural ability than him self. so it matters.

Irrelevant. DBZ holds no canon to HP, or Buffy.

Additional in TV series HEROES, it was stated that the people born with the organic mutated gene are natural on a higher plain than those with the synthetic gene.

Irrelevant. Heroes holds no canon to HP, or buffy.

Truly, Its like comparing a black woman who is born with light skin to a black woman who is born with a dark skin and then belches her skin to be light. the one born with a lighter skin will always look better and be better overall.

Doesn't matter in a fight. The one who can fight better wins.

8. In deathly hallow part 1, it was mentioned. JK Rowling and the writer over saw the script to the film and yes a wizard looked voldemort in the eye and he got his body disintegrated not even destroyed. WATCH THE MOVIE.

So yes, that has a more powerful effect than willow ripping of warren's skin.

Hell no. I have watched the movie. Harry looked into voldemort's eye, snape did, even frank, a muggle did. Voldemort has never exploded anyone by looking at it.

9. More arguing without depth. my candy reference is more realistic and more clever, voldemort will win the candy fight since he knows more of the candies and has been in the candy store longer unlike willow who is new to the place. Willow bring a powerful machine gun does not add depth to the debate.

EXPERIENCE IS AN IMPORTANT KEY.

No he wouldn't. Voldemort is more experienced in candy, and it's naturally made, but it's like a 1$ candy. willow's candy is better, 50$.

Clever reference? It feels weird just saying that.

LOL............My points where all valid. they fact that you say ther are relevant only makes my point a lot stronger, if this was a life debate, I would have won. you can not attack my point logically so you just rant and you go as far as to deny what both characters have displaced. It the fan boy behaviour.

Says you. nearly Half the things you said are irrelevant other than experience advantage, and other half are flat out wrong.

I like both willow and voldmort but please this is not a dbeate. voldemort will beat willow.

Doesn't look like it.

Neither characters are real, we will never see them fight what we can do is look at their overall character traits and it is clear. voldmeort has the advantage.

No. Voldemort gets stomped rather easily.

he has the experience,

Yes.

he is naturally a more trained dark wiazrd who has fought other powerful wizards unlike willow where there was no one who could match her.

Yes.

he went to a powerful and one of the best wizard school and studies all kinds of magic and his main love was for dark magic,

Yes.

Voldmort knows more about dark magic than willow does and yes it gives him more advantage.

No. Different types of magics.

he is wiser,

Yes.

He is a natural born wizard, who did not even need to studied magic to be powerful,

Willow didn't go to any magic school either. And still irrelevant.

all this things matters. they are not irrelevant. this are the things that add depth to a debate.You can't ignore it because you are desperately biased to another character.

Biased for willow? lol. no. I just finished watching buffy, but I've been reading HP since I was a kid.

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all it does it just prove that you are the typical stereotypical fan boy

All it does it prove you have no idea what you're talking about. The fight takes place simply enough:

Voldemort: I'm a darker wizard, more experienced, and born with the pow-

Willow: *hand gesture* Voldemort loses his skin, and body is erased. Breaks the horcrux enchantment like she did to the slayer line, and game over.

Tell me one thing voldemort can do to stop that. From the points you're bringing up, this is literally mismatched for dark willow.

Voldemort has so many usable feats, and you're using none of them.

@kingjohnrocks: could come up with a far better argument on voldemort than you are. And so could I.

#47 Edited by kyrees (6155 posts) - - Show Bio

someone is actually arguing dark willow can be defeated by elder wand voldemort ?! with that argument, voldemort can actually fight illyria full power or twilight full form. seriously ?

we are not even going with the fact that the comic version of dark willow is a lot more powerful than tv dark willow.

Online
#48 Posted by Lucano (791 posts) - - Show Bio

Round one goes to Voldemort. Willow was horribly limited and had morals.

Round two goes to Willow, she was badically the end of days incarnated. Wasn't she supposed to be a very slow planet buster?

#49 Posted by Ratava (4515 posts) - - Show Bio

Dark Willow in a stomp

#50 Edited by sjean (9 posts) - - Show Bio

@princearagorn1:

Again still arguing without depth.

Voldemort death eaters destroyed the London bridge and they destroyed a large part of diagorn ally. if they wanted to destroy the world, especially the muggle world they could do so but that is not in their mission.

here is how magic is defined in the HP world

Magic is a supernatural force that can alter the fabric of reality at fundamental levels. Biologically, magic is a genetic heredity that allows witches and wizards to practise witchcraft.

So you see. the HP wizrds have the ability to counter the fabric of reality. they can even erase things from existence if they want.

You are still talking without depth because you can't counter attack any of my points, all your point is that willow is just more powerful , you have not said anything else.

Debating willow against phoenix is not literally useless, they are all supernatural beings and both can destroy the world.

Yet you are missing the valid point of magic and kids. they go to school to learn more magic and become more powerful. you quote is not hiting the fact. children know of magic yes but when they are trained they are become stronger and better at it and a lot more accomplished. Hagrid tells this to harry in the philosopher stone and dumbledore says the same thing to voldmort in half blood prince.

Kids are not more powerful when they are young, if they were, dumbledore's army could have defeated the death eaters without the help of the order of the phoneix.

Lucois Malfoy even asked harry sarcastically if he thought kids would be able to take them down. so yes, an adult trained wizards will be more powerful than a teen or young wizrd.

Wrong again. a parellel universe is only partially altered. willow was still willow born to her parents in the wishverse. Voldemort would still be born to his pure blooded wizard mother in any alternate world because his powers are more organic. what would be altered would be if he decides not to attend a wizard school of he turns out to be a good guy. however in every universe he would still be a wizard unlike willow.

LMAO....Again ignore facts. I mentioned star wars, dragon ball z and heroes because it tells you how writers despite their different series still maintain natural law and natural logic. it is a realistic fact that an organic object or should I said organism will be better and more powerful than a synthetic one. it is a basic law and that is why every writer stress on the topic with their characters. IT IS NOT IRRRELEVENT. It is only irrelevant to you because you are trying to be biased against willow like the typical fanboy.

Again it matters . Voldmort can fight better in a fight because he has more experience and had been a dark wizard for a longer time. willow fighting better is ridiculous. She is a newborn dark wizard who never fought another dark wizrd. there is no ligic to saying willow fights better.

voldermot also fought equally powerful opponents unlike dark willow who was by deafult stronger than anyone because she was the only dark witch present. you cant say willow is the better fighter when she did not even face an equally powerful opponent. voldemort has faced a powerul wizard like dumbledore who was consired the greatest wizard of his time and he more than held his own. So he is the better fighter and more importantly has been a dark wizard fighter for decades, unlike willow who has one for like a day.

so realistic voldemort is the better fighter. another simple logic you choose to ignore.

Still misinterpreting the candy reference. the point is voldmeort has been in the candy store for years , he is basically an employee in the store and willow is new to the store. she lacks the experience and knowledge that voldemort of the store.

You are the one that has no idea what you are talking about. since you keep ignoring simple logic and simple analysis in this debate.

Also willow was the one that talked a lot. voldmort only spoke when he wanted to say something relevant.

Geez, I wonder how willow will shred voldemort when she can get her body disintegrated immediately she looks him in the eye.

Also you forget to add that willow after she absorbed the powers in the book she began to grow tired and the power began to leave her. this is how buffy and xander manage to let jonathan and andrew escape in the car. even Xander said willow is becoming weaker and this is the sole reason why Willow went and attacked her other wizard friend , she killed him and took the powers he had left. see the disadvantage if having synthetic magical abilities?

Again more logical points from side.

Vodlemort does not need to steal powers from other wizards because he is already a standard classically trained wizard for DECADES and yes again his powers are a lot more organic and that puts him on a higher plane than willow.he does not need to steal powers from anyone.

To deny this basic logic on both characters is just foolishness.

Lastly willow wont tie up voledmort like she did to warren, voldemort can easily disapper out of there. voldemort can easily stop willow by deflecting her hand away. he can just breathe fire from his mouth and burn her up.

Truly, It is really a simple logic and reason. like I said we can never see both characters fight, all we can do is look at their overall character traits and it is clear that voldemort has the advantage over willow. you just ignore all of this and scream willow wins.

This debate is over. a debate where reason and logic is ignored is a win for the one that argues with logic and reason.

We are comparing two dark wizrds and overall voldemort has more going for him and this by logic will give him more of the adavntage over willow.