#1 Posted by Alpha (7331 posts) - - Show Bio
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Majestic power level is what was displayed during Dreamwar.
#2 Posted by Buckshot (18915 posts) - - Show Bio

Pretty sure Maul could one shot most, if not all, of the Mighty Avengers. Throwing around fists with the mass of aircraft carriers (80,000 - 100,000 tons) should be more than enough to ko any of them. And that's if he doesn't choose to increase his mass or size any more (since that's not even close to his limit). His only problem would be hitting any of them since the fliers are pretty fast, but if he got big enough that shouldn't be a problem. Don't see the point of using Dreamwars Maj (other than to limit him) since he didn't really do enough to gauge his power level. Even lowered to Superman level or sightly below, he's still better than any of the Mighty Avengers and plenty smart. He could be responsible for holding back anyone who moves too fast for the Wildcats and buying them time to act, or just taking out the Mighty Avengers' powerhouses one at a time. Voodoo could tap into her time control (slow/stopping), magic or psychic abilities for various results. For individual fights, I think Zealot and Ares could be fun. It would probably end with her cutting him to pieces, but it would be entertaining. Iron Man might be able to take over Spartan, but the Wildcats could just kill him if that happened and make another copy of him later. Grifter and Black Widow would be another good one. She's more ruthless though so she'd probably kill or wound him while he's joking around or hitting on her. That would piss of Zealot though and then she'd be dead. Wasp might try her in-the-ear thing on Maul, but he's incredibly durable (and can always get even more durable) so he might just ignore it. He also might accidentally kill her with a thunderclap. If Maj thinks she might be a problem he could blast her out of the sky or tell Grifter to do it.

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#3 Posted by Vance Astro (91196 posts) - - Show Bio

Wildcats.CURBSTOMP

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#4 Posted by King Saturn (224040 posts) - - Show Bio
The Wildcats will handle there business here... Spartan, Maul and Majestic will run a train on the Mighty Avengers... and Ms. Marvel is first in line
#5 Posted by Buckshot (18915 posts) - - Show Bio

The version of Spartan pictured here probably wouldn't be too much help.

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#6 Posted by Vance Astro (91196 posts) - - Show Bio
Buckshot said:
"The version of Spartan pictured here probably wouldn't be too much help."
Majestic will.
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#7 Posted by King Saturn (224040 posts) - - Show Bio
Buckshot said:
"The version of Spartan pictured here probably wouldn't be too much help."
Maybe Not... but he should at least be able to take out Black Widow
#8 Posted by Vance Astro (91196 posts) - - Show Bio

On second though..I'm going to try and make a case for the Mighty Avengers.

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#9 Posted by King Saturn (224040 posts) - - Show Bio
Vance Astro said:
"On second though..I'm going to try and make a case for the Mighty Avengers."
Go For It
#10 Posted by Vance Astro (91196 posts) - - Show Bio
Buckshot said:
"Pretty sure Maul could one shot most, if not all, of the Mighty Avengers. Throwing around fists with the mass of aircraft carriers (80,000 - 100,000 tons) should be more than enough to ko any of them. And that's if he doesn't choose to increase his mass or size any more (since that's not even close to his limit). His only problem would be hitting any of them since the fliers are pretty fast, but if he got big enough that shouldn't be a problem. Don't see the point of using Dreamwars Maj (other than to limit him) since he didn't really do enough to gauge his power level. Even lowered to Superman level or sightly below, he's still better than any of the Mighty Avengers and plenty smart. He could be responsible for holding back anyone who moves too fast for the Wildcats and buying them time to act, or just taking out the Mighty Avengers' powerhouses one at a time. Voodoo could tap into her time control (slow/stopping), magic or psychic abilities for various results. For individual fights, I think Zealot and Ares could be fun. It would probably end with her cutting him to pieces, but it would be entertaining. Iron Man might be able to take over Spartan, but the Wildcats could just kill him if that happened and make another copy of him later. Grifter and Black Widow would be another good one. She's more ruthless though so she'd probably kill or wound him while he's joking around or hitting on her. That would piss of Zealot though and then she'd be dead. Wasp might try her in-the-ear thing on Maul, but he's incredibly durable (and can always get even more durable) so he might just ignore it. He also might accidentally kill her with a thunderclap. If Maj thinks she might be a problem he could blast her out of the sky or tell Grifter to do it."
Ok...so Maul is within the 80,000-100,00 ton range.How fast is he and where is his intellect.With Sentry and Ms.Marvel's speed I think they can overwhelm him.He does have a brain doesn't he? Is he immune to telepathy because Sentry has made classic Hulk look like a chump with his TP.How durable is Maul...how much can he take before he goes down.Ms.Marvel's energy absorption is tops.What she did to that Super Skrull after absorbing Electricity was pretty noteworthy.
You say Maul can increase his size? How big can he get? Does his size increase his durability as well as his weight?

Majestic is around Superman's level of power and strength..correct? Possibly above that? Does he have an immunity to telepathy? That is the only way I see him being taken out.None of the other Mighty Avengers could really do anything because they are too slow and he is too durable.

Voodoo has time control but is that something she uses to begin a fight? Or is that something she does when she feels like she can't win? Or even does she use it when she is in control of the fight and is just trying to seal the deal? How durable is she? Could she take a bullet? Uni-beam,Missle? Does she have some other defenses?

Even if Iron Man couldn't control Spartan...could his punches and weapons hurt him? There may be a chance that Iron Man couldn't use his technopathy on him.

I think Grifter vs. Black Widow would be a fight Grifter would win because of his TK and great marksmanship.I also don't believe she is on his level of fighting skill,but she may be smarter than him,I don't know if she will be able to use her environment (because none was specified) or something involving her intellect to win over him.

Wasp is able to grow now so if she really thought she needed to kill Zealot she could shrink into her ear and then grow which would rip Zealot apart.I think here flight and bio-electric blast would be enough to take Zealot down though.

If Zealot does happen to beat Wasp...the God of War would handle her.
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#11 Posted by Alpha (7331 posts) - - Show Bio

I like you take for the Avengers Vance!

#12 Posted by IcePrince_X (4865 posts) - - Show Bio

I will side with the Mighty Avengers based on what I know and read from my comic books and what some comic magazine had written on both teams though Buckshot's view does make this fight difficult for both teams. 

#13 Posted by xXi0RIXx (1736 posts) - - Show Bio

first off

wild cats are VASTLY out numbered XDDDDDDDDDDDDD

SECOND

i dont think the wild cats can take a punch from the heavy hitters

#14 Posted by Vance Astro (91196 posts) - - Show Bio
Alpha said:
"

I like you take for the Avengers Vance!

"
That's my team..I don't have a choice..lol.
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#15 Posted by Alpha (7331 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Majestic and Maul are the main problems but the combined power of Ms Marvel, Sentry, Wonderman and Ares can deal with that (Sentry and MM take out Majestic while WM and Ares hold off MAul until they done). Ironman takes Spartan. Grifter takes Black Widow. The Wasp can tale out Voodoo. That leaves Warblade, Zealot and Grifter vs Ironman and the Wasp (who can grow).

M Avengers for the win.

#16 Posted by Vance Astro (91196 posts) - - Show Bio
Alpha said:
"I think Majestic and Maul are the main problems but the combined power of Ms Marvel, Sentry, Wonderman and Ares can deal with that (Sentry and MM take out Majestic while WM and Ares hold off MAul until they done). Ironman takes Spartan. Grifter takes Black Widow. The Wasp can tale out Voodoo. That leaves Warblade, Zealot and Grifter vs Ironman and the Wasp (who can grow).

M Avengers for the win."
Yay.
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#17 Posted by Buckshot (18915 posts) - - Show Bio
Vance Astro said:
Ok...so Maul is within the 80,000-100,00 ton range.How fast is he and where is his intellect.With Sentry and Ms.Marvel's speed I think they can overwhelm him.He does have a brain doesn't he? Is he immune to telepathy because Sentry has made classic Hulk look like a chump with his TP.How durable is Maul...how much can he take before he goes down.Ms.Marvel's energy absorption is tops.What she did to that Super Skrull after absorbing Electricity was pretty noteworthy.
You say Maul can increase his size? How big can he get? Does his size increase his durability as well as his weight?

Majestic is around Superman's level of power and strength..correct? Possibly above that? Does he have an immunity to telepathy? That is the only way I see him being taken out.None of the other Mighty Avengers could really do anything because they are too slow and he is too durable.

Voodoo has time control but is that something she uses to begin a fight? Or is that something she does when she feels like she can't win? Or even does she use it when she is in control of the fight and is just trying to seal the deal? How durable is she? Could she take a bullet? Uni-beam,Missle? Does she have some other defenses?

Even if Iron Man couldn't control Spartan...could his punches and weapons hurt him? There may be a chance that Iron Man couldn't use his technopathy on him.

I think Grifter vs. Black Widow would be a fight Grifter would win because of his TK and great marksmanship.I also don't believe she is on his level of fighting skill,but she may be smarter than him,I don't know if she will be able to use her environment (because none was specified) or something involving her intellect to win over him.

Wasp is able to grow now so if she really thought she needed to kill Zealot she could shrink into her ear and then grow which would rip Zealot apart.I think here flight and bio-electric blast would be enough to take Zealot down though.

If Zealot does happen to beat Wasp...the God of War would handle her.
"

He’s not within the 80,000-100,000 ton range, that’s nothing near his limit (I said that before.) He’s been at that level yet was still able to hold a conversation, speak intelligently, accurately describe his powers, mock his enemy and was barely bigger than normal. When he really taps into his power he gets dumb, dumber than Hulk, so dumb he can barely process thought let alone follow directions or speak correctly, he also gets huge. (He can get huge without getting too dumb though, he’s been so big that the tip of his pinky finger towered over human-sized beings and still been able to fight well.) As I said before, he’s not that fast, but if he’s big enough, hitting the Mighty Avengers shouldn’t be hard. He could also have Majestic catch them for him (though Maj could beat them without his help, still though, team work) or just position them correctly. Besides, they’ve all fought with beings on Maul’s level of speed (without the advantage of being huge) and been hit. An upside of Maul getting big and dumb is that he can get highly resistant to TP. Shouldn’t matter though since I don’t see Sentry’s TP as that great in general, and he doesn’t use it much anyway. As for Maul’s durability, he can trade punches with Majestic and can increase his durability like his strength and size.

Majestic is not immune to telepathy, but he’s incredibly resistant and before coming to Earth had hundreds (or thousands) of years of training and practice to beef up his resistance. (Useful against Daemonites.) Again though, Sentry’s TP isn’t amazing and he hardly uses it. What are the big tp feats I keep reading, he calms the Hulk (something the handbook shows as Hulk specific, and which really isn’t psychic, just something his energy does) and some crazy chick with power stealing abilities freaked out because she saw the Void in him?

Voodoo’s abilities are unclear (especially with the newest comics) but she doesn’t use anything like time control right off. If she were instructed to by Maj she could though. She has human durability, but any of the others (except Grifter) could take the attacks you mentioned for her and keep her alive.

Iron Man beats original Spartan. That’s not really that important. Thought my original post said as much.

I didn’t include TK with Grifter (or any current versions of Spartan) because they’ve been changed since the posted image. Voodoo has learned more uses of her powers, but those are things she could always do. Grifter’s TK came back after he died and was brought back, which is a more major change, and Spartan’s changes came after sizeable upgrades. It was a personal decision, but the OP didn’t give me information. I was giving Black Widow the benefit of the doubt and assuming she’d be all business while Grifter wasn’t. I think he could still beat her that way, but I thought the Mighty Avengers should grab a win here and there and that’s one they might get.

Wasp is not a problem in my opinion. Grifter is a perfect shot, Spartan has machine vision/targeting computers, Majestic has microvision, Zealot can slice through atoms and Maul could take her out on accident. There’s really no reason she shouldn’t get taken down.

Why would Ares “handle” her? She’s not as strong as him but she’s faster, more agile, has as much (or more, not sure on the age of Marvel gods) experience and she’s a lot more calm in combat. She’d be able to move around better than him and use her swords to just cut him apart. 

Alpha said:

"I think Majestic and Maul are the main problems but the combined power of Ms Marvel, Sentry, Wonderman and Ares can deal with that (Sentry and MM take out Majestic while WM and Ares hold off MAul until they done). Ironman takes Spartan. Grifter takes Black Widow. The Wasp can tale out Voodoo. That leaves Warblade, Zealot and Grifter vs Ironman and the Wasp (who can grow).

M Avengers for the win."

Sentry and Ms. Marvel take Majestic? What makes you think that would work? He’s smarter and more powerful than both of them. What has either of them done that makes you think they could stand up to a Superman level character that won’t hold back against them? As for Wonder Man and Ares, something to show they could handle blows from Maul (at the level stated and higher)? 

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#18 Posted by Vance Astro (91196 posts) - - Show Bio
Buckshot said:
"Vance Astro said:
Ok...so Maul is within the 80,000-100,00 ton range.How fast is he and where is his intellect.With Sentry and Ms.Marvel's speed I think they can overwhelm him.He does have a brain doesn't he? Is he immune to telepathy because Sentry has made classic Hulk look like a chump with his TP.How durable is Maul...how much can he take before he goes down.Ms.Marvel's energy absorption is tops.What she did to that Super Skrull after absorbing Electricity was pretty noteworthy.
You say Maul can increase his size? How big can he get? Does his size increase his durability as well as his weight?

Majestic is around Superman's level of power and strength..correct? Possibly above that? Does he have an immunity to telepathy? That is the only way I see him being taken out.None of the other Mighty Avengers could really do anything because they are too slow and he is too durable.

Voodoo has time control but is that something she uses to begin a fight? Or is that something she does when she feels like she can't win? Or even does she use it when she is in control of the fight and is just trying to seal the deal? How durable is she? Could she take a bullet? Uni-beam,Missle? Does she have some other defenses?

Even if Iron Man couldn't control Spartan...could his punches and weapons hurt him? There may be a chance that Iron Man couldn't use his technopathy on him.

I think Grifter vs. Black Widow would be a fight Grifter would win because of his TK and great marksmanship.I also don't believe she is on his level of fighting skill,but she may be smarter than him,I don't know if she will be able to use her environment (because none was specified) or something involving her intellect to win over him.

Wasp is able to grow now so if she really thought she needed to kill Zealot she could shrink into her ear and then grow which would rip Zealot apart.I think here flight and bio-electric blast would be enough to take Zealot down though.

If Zealot does happen to beat Wasp...the God of War would handle her.
"

He’s not within the 80,000-100,000 ton range, that’s nothing near his limit (I said that before.) He’s been at that level yet was still able to hold a conversation, speak intelligently, accurately describe his powers, mock his enemy and was barely bigger than normal. When he really taps into his power he gets dumb, dumber than Hulk, so dumb he can barely process thought let alone follow directions or speak correctly, he also gets huge. (He can get huge without getting too dumb though, he’s been so big that the tip of his pinky finger towered over human-sized beings and still been able to fight well.) As I said before, he’s not that fast, but if he’s big enough, hitting the Mighty Avengers shouldn’t be hard. He could also have Majestic catch them for him (though Maj could beat them without his help, still though, team work) or just position them correctly. Besides, they’ve all fought with beings on Maul’s level of speed (without the advantage of being huge) and been hit. An upside of Maul getting big and dumb is that he can get highly resistant to TP. Shouldn’t matter though since I don’t see Sentry’s TP as that great in general, and he doesn’t use it much anyway. As for Maul’s durability, he can trade punches with Majestic and can increase his durability like his strength and size.

Majestic is not immune to telepathy, but he’s incredibly resistant and before coming to Earth had hundreds (or thousands) of years of training and practice to beef up his resistance. (Useful against Daemonites.) Again though, Sentry’s TP isn’t amazing and he hardly uses it. What are the big tp feats I keep reading, he calms the Hulk (something the handbook shows as Hulk specific, and which really isn’t psychic, just something his energy does) and some crazy chick with power stealing abilities freaked out because she saw the Void in him?

Voodoo’s abilities are unclear (especially with the newest comics) but she doesn’t use anything like time control right off. If she were instructed to by Maj she could though. She has human durability, but any of the others (except Grifter) could take the attacks you mentioned for her and keep her alive.

Iron Man beats original Spartan. That’s not really that important. Thought my original post said as much.

I didn’t include TK with Grifter (or any current versions of Spartan) because they’ve been changed since the posted image. Voodoo has learned more uses of her powers, but those are things she could always do. Grifter’s TK came back after he died and was brought back, which is a more major change, and Spartan’s changes came after sizeable upgrades. It was a personal decision, but the OP didn’t give me information. I was giving Black Widow the benefit of the doubt and assuming she’d be all business while Grifter wasn’t. I think he could still beat her that way, but I thought the Mighty Avengers should grab a win here and there and that’s one they might get.

Wasp is not a problem in my opinion. Grifter is a perfect shot, Spartan has machine vision/targeting computers, Majestic has microvision, Zealot can slice through atoms and Maul could take her out on accident. There’s really no reason she shouldn’t get taken down.

Why would Ares “handle” her? She’s not as strong as him but she’s faster, more agile, has as much (or more, not sure on the age of Marvel gods) experience and she’s a lot more calm in combat. She’d be able to move around better than him and use her swords to just cut him apart. 

Alpha said:

"I think Majestic and Maul are the main problems but the combined power of Ms Marvel, Sentry, Wonderman and Ares can deal with that (Sentry and MM take out Majestic while WM and Ares hold off MAul until they done). Ironman takes Spartan. Grifter takes Black Widow. The Wasp can tale out Voodoo. That leaves Warblade, Zealot and Grifter vs Ironman and the Wasp (who can grow).

M Avengers for the win."

Sentry and Ms. Marvel take Majestic? What makes you think that would work? He’s smarter and more powerful than both of them. What has either of them done that makes you think they could stand up to a Superman level character that won’t hold back against them? As for Wonder Man and Ares, something to show they could handle blows from Maul (at the level stated and higher)? 

"
Ok As far as the Sentry's TP he is (if he was a mutant) an Omega level telepath.He has been shown (even after his appearance in New Avengers without control of the Void)  to go into people's minds and show them their worst nightmare.He explained to his enemy (some deformed creature I can't remember the same of) that the better he concentrates the worse it will be fore his opponent.When Emma Frost needed to get into his head to help him sto the Void..she only got in because he let her in.Erasing the memories of everyone on earth including the telepaths is not really that impressive but he did it without even knowing it...his telepathy (from what he says) grows stronger...like the rest of his powers with stability and concentration.
Since it won't do any good if Maul has an immunity to it.Maul is obviously a tank being able to take hits from someone as ridiculously powerful as Majestic...however do you think he could withstand the energy attacks of Ms.Marvel and Sentry? Remember that massive fire tornado that Sentry created to attack the Hulk? Hulk only lived because of his healing factor? Would that have killed Maul? As far as Maul being able to tag the Mighty Avengers...Sentry is beyond Mach speed (no number has been said),Wonder Man is at Mach speed,Ms.Marvel is at Mach 3,and According to Iron Man he is at Mach 8.5...all in flight..not on foot,but the generally stay in the air.Only person I can see Maul realistically tagging is Ares,Wasp or,Black Widow.

If Majestic has not immunity to TP...I don't see how he has a chance.Sentry rarely uses his TP because like Superman he holds of on his other powers for brute strength.He doesn't speed blitz,he doesn't use energy attacks...he just starts throwing punches.Being that this is the only way Sentry could possibly take him Majestic down.It's all I have to go one.His strength and speed will do nothing against Majestic's durability and I doubt he's fast enough to hit him with an energy attack.

Black Widow is an excellent shot..If Grifter is occupied leaving Voodoo open..I doubt she's dodging a headshot.I don't think she's that fast or able to dodge bullets.If Black Widow wasn't the shooter and it was....let's say Iron Man...Grifter couldn't take the shot for her because they'd both die.Tony's gauntlets would obliterate them both in one shot.Not that Iron Man does that sort of thing.I think if everyone else was taken making him have to fight Voodoo he would BFR her before he actually hit her.

I think Wasp could take Zealot with here flight and shrinking\growing ablities along with her bio-electric blasts.Zealot carried two swords correct? If WasP is flying and shooting bio-blasts all over the place..I don't see how Zealot is going to get a hit off.Janet isn't the best shot but her ammo is unlimited if you know what I mean.

Zealot beating Ares is a joke to me.I remember Ares almost besting Hercules in a fist fight...despite the fact Herc outclasses him physically in so many ways.Ares is a master of all styles..a class 7 by handbook standards.He should be able to keep up with her speed and agility although she may be above him in those categories.

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#19 Posted by Alpha (7331 posts) - - Show Bio

Majestic power level goes back and forth. During Dreamwar, Superman knocked him out with one punch. I would think Ms Marvel And Sentry could hold off Superman for a while, so Majestic at the level seen in Dreamwar would be a easier task. From what I've seen of Maul (the earlier Wildcats series) he's nothing that Ares and Wonderman couldn't handle. If he got big enough that they would be beaten easily, he would be so dumb that he would become a problem for even the Wildcats (which has been shown before).

#20 Posted by Buckshot (18915 posts) - - Show Bio
Vance Astro said:
Ok As far as the Sentry's TP he is (if he was a mutant) an Omega level telepath.He has been shown (even after his appearance in New Avengers without control of the Void)  to go into people's minds and show them their worst nightmare.He explained to his enemy (some deformed creature I can't remember the same of) that the better he concentrates the worse it will be fore his opponent.When Emma Frost needed to get into his head to help him sto the Void..she only got in because he let her in.Erasing the memories of everyone on earth including the telepaths is not really that impressive but he did it without even knowing it...his telepathy (from what he says) grows stronger...like the rest of his powers with stability and concentration.
Since it won't do any good if Maul has an immunity to it.Maul is obviously a tank being able to take hits from someone as ridiculously powerful as Majestic...however do you think he could withstand the energy attacks of Ms.Marvel and Sentry? Remember that massive fire tornado that Sentry created to attack the Hulk? Hulk only lived because of his healing factor? Would that have killed Maul? As far as Maul being able to tag the Mighty Avengers...Sentry is beyond Mach speed (no number has been said),Wonder Man is at Mach speed,Ms.Marvel is at Mach 3,and According to Iron Man he is at Mach 8.5...all in flight..not on foot,but the generally stay in the air.Only person I can see Maul realistically tagging is Ares,Wasp or,Black Widow.

If Majestic has not immunity to TP...I don't see how he has a chance.Sentry rarely uses his TP because like Superman he holds of on his other powers for brute strength.He doesn't speed blitz,he doesn't use energy attacks...he just starts throwing punches.Being that this is the only way Sentry could possibly take him Majestic down.It's all I have to go one.His strength and speed will do nothing against Majestic's durability and I doubt he's fast enough to hit him with an energy attack.

Black Widow is an excellent shot..If Grifter is occupied leaving Voodoo open..I doubt she's dodging a headshot.I don't think she's that fast or able to dodge bullets.If Black Widow wasn't the shooter and it was....let's say Iron Man...Grifter couldn't take the shot for her because they'd both die.Tony's gauntlets would obliterate them both in one shot.Not that Iron Man does that sort of thing.I think if everyone else was taken making him have to fight Voodoo he would BFR her before he actually hit her.

I think Wasp could take Zealot with here flight and shrinking\growing ablities along with her bio-electric blasts.Zealot carried two swords correct? If WasP is flying and shooting bio-blasts all over the place..I don't see how Zealot is going to get a hit off.Janet isn't the best shot but her ammo is unlimited if you know what I mean.

Zealot beating Ares is a joke to me.I remember Ares almost besting Hercules in a fist fight...despite the fact Herc outclasses him physically in so many ways.Ares is a master of all styles..a class 7 by handbook standards.He should be able to keep up with her speed and agility although she may be above him in those categories.

"

What are some examples of Sentry purposefully using his TP offensively in a battle? I haven’t seen much of it so I don’t think it’s that impressive even if he did use it. (You’re going with that tactic as if that’s something he does regularly, but he doesn’t.) And it won’t be very effective against the two most powerful characters on the Wildcats’ team.

Energy attacks aren’t always the same as physical attacks but I haven’t seen anything that would suggest that they’d be more effective against Maul. And that fire tornado really wasn’t impressive. There were plenty of other characters and buildings nearby that didn’t have amazing durability (or healing factors) that didn’t get destroyed. You can list all their speeds but that doesn’t stop them from getting hit, it’s happened before. If they try to engage Maul in combat (especially if they don’t realize how strong he is and treat him like they treat the other big strong guys they know) he’ll be able to hit them harder than they’ve been hit before. (Iron Man was getting knocked around by class 100 Namor and getting his armor broken by 10-25 ton Spider-Man, what would happen if 100,000 tons smacked him over the head? And you do realize that he’s much stronger than that right? He’s made his hand alone weigh 100,000 tons. Imagine how strong he is to actually lift that hand for every punch with as much ease as a normal person and then the force behind it when he actually swings.) Even if they don’t engage him, he can be huge and that will help too. Fing Fang Foom grabs and smacks flying heroes out of the air all the time and Maul can reach his size or dwarf him. My original thought was that he’d have help though. While Majestic is fighting other Avengers he could smack one over to Maul or laser one in the back to stun or cripple them so they’re open for attack. Maul could also stun them on his own using a thunderclap. Hulk’s have done plenty of damage and Maul can reach and surpass his strength level (and has bigger hands).

If you’re going to say that Sentry beats Maj simply because he has TP and Maj isn’t immune (even though he has a high resistance), then I’d like to see every example of Sentry’s telepathy. Even if his TP is good enough though, he still doesn’t use it often. You’ve described the way Sentry fights, what’s going to make him switch from his usual method to telepathic attacks? He’s going to see Majestic like any other enemy, try swinging at him, then get killed by someone with superior strength and skill before he even thinks to try telepathy.

You’re going at Grifter being the only one guarding Voodoo since he’s the only one that might die doing it, but there are plenty of other people in the fight. You’re ignoring the rest of the team. Maj could swoop in and pick up a bullet or just laser it from wherever he is, Zealot could knock it out of the sky or just take it for her, Warblade could block a shot with his body, Spartan could as well. Just because Grifter is doing something doesn’t mean Voodoo can’t be protected. If she does alter the flow of time though, the bullet won’t be going fast enough (from her view) to be dangerous. If it’s Iron Man attacking instead of Black Widow, any of the Wildcats except for Grifter could step in and take the hit for her since they’re all incredibly durable (or disposable).

Lmao at Wasp taking Zealot. Wasp’s little blasts are going to hurt her why? She’s blocked things from lasers to Captain Atom’s blasts. Her weapons can take the energy output of suns and she’s skilled enough with them to do surgery. Zealot can block all of Wasp’s attacks and then just cut her down. Swords don’t run out of ammo either.

What does it matter if Ares almost won a fist fight? Zealot isn’t going to start one. Her blades beat his skin. The greek gods are good against explosions and stuff, but bullets and swords go through them much easier, and Zealot’s weapons are some of the best and are backed by superhuman strength and skill. Kherubim weapons are already nice (some are even capable of cutting Majestic) but Zealot, as the Majestrix of the Coda, has top shelf weaponry. She’s also been trained to fight beings like Majestic and Maul, so Ares’ strength, one of only two things (the other being durability, but not by as much) he has over her, doesn’t guarantee him a win. 

Alpha said:

"Majestic power level goes back and forth. During Dreamwar, Superman knocked him out with one punch. I would think Ms Marvel And Sentry could hold off Superman for a while, so Majestic at the level seen in Dreamwar would be a easier task. From what I've seen of Maul (the earlier Wildcats series) he's nothing that Ares and Wonderman couldn't handle. If he got big enough that they would be beaten easily, he would be so dumb that he would become a problem for even the Wildcats (which has been shown before)."

Of course his power level varies, so does every other character’s. I knew that was the reason you wanted to use Dreamwar. He got knocked out by Superman (who was holding back a lot less than usual, that being the entire point of Dreamwar, and while being held down by a GL so he couldn’t block or even roll with it.) That means what, that Sentry can do the same? Sentry isn’t anywhere close to Superman in terms of physical power, especially when he’s really going for it. Why do you think Ms. Marvel and Sentry could even slow down Superman? What are you basing that off of, Sentry struggling to even support a weight that Superman could easily toss into orbit? And he’s even stronger than Ms. Marvel so I don’t see what she would add. Find a better way to limit Majestic because even at Superman level or a little under (which I don’t think is the case regardless of him getting knocked out), he’s still too much for anyone on the Mighty Avengers. Give me an example of something that shows how any of the Avengers could survive hits from or take down Superman or Maul.

I asked before, show me something that supports the idea that Wonder Man or Ares could take hits from Maul at the level I’ve been talking about or higher. And as I said when I first mentioned Maul, the strength level he was at had him still plenty intelligent and aware. He’d have to get a lot more powerful before he started getting dumb, but I don’t see that as necessary since there’s nothing showing me that the Mighty Avengers could take his attacks at the level he’s already at. 

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#21 Posted by Vance Astro (91196 posts) - - Show Bio
Buckshot said:

What are some examples of Sentry purposefully using his TP offensively in a battle? I haven’t seen much of it so I don’t think it’s that impressive even if he did use it. (You’re going with that tactic as if that’s something he does regularly, but he doesn’t.) And it won’t be very effective against the two most powerful characters on the Wildcats’ team.

Energy attacks aren’t always the same as physical attacks but I haven’t seen anything that would suggest that they’d be more effective against Maul. And that fire tornado really wasn’t impressive. There were plenty of other characters and buildings nearby that didn’t have amazing durability (or healing factors) that didn’t get destroyed. You can list all their speeds but that doesn’t stop them from getting hit, it’s happened before. If they try to engage Maul in combat (especially if they don’t realize how strong he is and treat him like they treat the other big strong guys they know) he’ll be able to hit them harder than they’ve been hit before. (Iron Man was getting knocked around by class 100 Namor and getting his armor broken by 10-25 ton Spider-Man, what would happen if 100,000 tons smacked him over the head? And you do realize that he’s much stronger than that right? He’s made his hand alone weigh 100,000 tons. Imagine how strong he is to actually lift that hand for every punch with as much ease as a normal person and then the force behind it when he actually swings.) Even if they don’t engage him, he can be huge and that will help too. Fing Fang Foom grabs and smacks flying heroes out of the air all the time and Maul can reach his size or dwarf him. My original thought was that he’d have help though. While Majestic is fighting other Avengers he could smack one over to Maul or laser one in the back to stun or cripple them so they’re open for attack. Maul could also stun them on his own using a thunderclap. Hulk’s have done plenty of damage and Maul can reach and surpass his strength level (and has bigger hands).

If you’re going to say that Sentry beats Maj simply because he has TP and Maj isn’t immune (even though he has a high resistance), then I’d like to see every example of Sentry’s telepathy. Even if his TP is good enough though, he still doesn’t use it often. You’ve described the way Sentry fights, what’s going to make him switch from his usual method to telepathic attacks? He’s going to see Majestic like any other enemy, try swinging at him, then get killed by someone with superior strength and skill before he even thinks to try telepathy.

You’re going at Grifter being the only one guarding Voodoo since he’s the only one that might die doing it, but there are plenty of other people in the fight. You’re ignoring the rest of the team. Maj could swoop in and pick up a bullet or just laser it from wherever he is, Zealot could knock it out of the sky or just take it for her, Warblade could block a shot with his body, Spartan could as well. Just because Grifter is doing something doesn’t mean Voodoo can’t be protected. If she does alter the flow of time though, the bullet won’t be going fast enough (from her view) to be dangerous. If it’s Iron Man attacking instead of Black Widow, any of the Wildcats except for Grifter could step in and take the hit for her since they’re all incredibly durable (or disposable).

Lmao at Wasp taking Zealot. Wasp’s little blasts are going to hurt her why? She’s blocked things from lasers to Captain Atom’s blasts. Her weapons can take the energy output of suns and she’s skilled enough with them to do surgery. Zealot can block all of Wasp’s attacks and then just cut her down. Swords don’t run out of ammo either.

What does it matter if Ares almost won a fist fight? Zealot isn’t going to start one. Her blades beat his skin. The greek gods are good against explosions and stuff, but bullets and swords go through them much easier, and Zealot’s weapons are some of the best and are backed by superhuman strength and skill. Kherubim weapons are already nice (some are even capable of cutting Majestic) but Zealot, as the Majestrix of the Coda, has top shelf weaponry. She’s also been trained to fight beings like Majestic and Maul, so Ares’ strength, one of only two things (the other being durability, but not by as much) he has over her, doesn’t guarantee him a win. 

Well I tried to make something out of this thread but..because of Majestic...I don't see the Avengers having any chance of pulling this out.I just thought I would bother to make a case instead of saying "Wildcats win.CURBSTOMP".
I do have a few points to address though...

1.Namor and Spider-Man having any chance against Iron Man in his Extremis armor is PIS.Iron Man has fought Namor in 3 weaker armors and has one.He complete owned Namor in his MKII armor...even taking half the battle into Namor's element...underwater.Iron Man almost killed Spider-Man during Civil War when he stopped holding back.He outclasses Spider-Man in every single way including Intellect and fighting skill so I don't see how Spider-Man stands a chance.I would assume Iron Man was holding back against him during one more day and the first time he fought him in Civil War.

2.In case you don't know...Fin Fang Foom can fly....If he smacks someone out of the air at Iron Man/Ms.Marvel's speed it's because he's faster than Maul.
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#22 Posted by Buckshot (18915 posts) - - Show Bio

It really doesn't matter if Namor or Spider-Man can't beat Iron Man (though I don't see why Namor, a character with class 100 strength, wouldn't be able to in a physical fight). Maul is so much stronger than either of them that even if they can't beat him (which I don't think was what I was saying, just that they can damage his armor, which they have been shown to, though that really doesn't matter either), he still could with very little effort. 

I know he can fly. So what? Unless you're going to tell me that he's never grabbed someone out of the sky or smacked them when he wasn't flying, I don't see the point. Flight doesn't increase his reaction speed, it just means he can keep up with them in the air. Also, I gave a couple ways for Maul to get his hands on someone without having to catch them himself while they were flying. 
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#23 Posted by Vance Astro (91196 posts) - - Show Bio
Buckshot said:
"It really doesn't matter if Namor or Spider-Man can't beat Iron Man (though I don't see why Namor, a character with class 100 strength, wouldn't be able to in a physical fight). Maul is so much stronger than either of them that even if they can't beat him (which I don't think was what I was saying, just that they can damage his armor, which they have been shown to, though that really doesn't matter either), he still could with very little effort. 
I know he can fly. So what? Unless you're going to tell me that he's never grabbed someone out of the sky or smacked them when he wasn't flying, I don't see the point. Flight doesn't increase his reaction speed, it just means he can keep up with them in the air. Also, I gave a couple ways for Maul to get his hands on someone without having to catch them himself while they were flying. 
"
I know what you saying Buckshot but I was just saying I don't see how what Namor or Spider-Man did works in your defense because it is PIS and on top of the Maul is far stronger than both.
I mentioned Fing Fang Foom flying before I read your whole post lol.I do believe Fing Fang Foom is faster than Maul though and according to the hand book he's an excellent fighter for a being of his size.
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#24 Posted by Buckshot (18915 posts) - - Show Bio

Well, good discussion. I much prefer this to "....." or "CURBSTOMP". I look forward to another one.

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#25 Posted by Vance Astro (91196 posts) - - Show Bio
Buckshot said:
 I much prefer this to "....." or "CURBSTOMP". I look forward to another one."
I'm sure everyone does.I will try to give more responses like these.
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#26 Posted by Alpha (7331 posts) - - Show Bio

Many people keep comparing Sentry to Superman and stating that he is nowhere near his level. How do we know that? Is everyone going by his display against WWHulk? How about when he beat Terrax as though he was nothing. I think most people just don't like the character so there opinion of his power is a little bias. My point is that I don't think he could take Superman by himself but coupled with someone almost as strong as him would change my opinion. And since I put Majestic slighly below him, I think they same pairing can take Majestic.

#27 Posted by Vance Astro (91196 posts) - - Show Bio
Alpha said:
"Many people keep comparing Sentry to Superman and stating that he is nowhere near his level. How do we know that? Is everyone going by his display against WWHulk? How about when he beat Terrax as though he was nothing. I think most people just don't like the character so there opinion of his power is a little bias. My point is that I don't think he could take Superman by himself but coupled with someone almost as strong as him would change my opinion. And since I put Majestic slighly below him, I think they same pairing can take Majestic."
We know that the latest version of Sentry has trouble lifting the SHIELD Helicarrier and beating Hulk.Superman's base limit is above Sentry's strongest feats of strength.I don't think Terrax is anywhere near Superman's level..he couldn't even beat Dazzler.I don't think the Mighty Avengers combined can take Superman.He is far faster and stronger than all of them.Majestic isn't slightly below Superman...he's above him.
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#28 Posted by Alpha (7331 posts) - - Show Bio
Vance Astro said:
"Alpha said:
"Many people keep comparing Sentry to Superman and stating that he is nowhere near his level. How do we know that? Is everyone going by his display against WWHulk? How about when he beat Terrax as though he was nothing. I think most people just don't like the character so there opinion of his power is a little bias. My point is that I don't think he could take Superman by himself but coupled with someone almost as strong as him would change my opinion. And since I put Majestic slighly below him, I think they same pairing can take Majestic."
We know that the latest version of Sentry has trouble lifting the SHIELD Helicarrier and beating Hulk.Superman's base limit is above Sentry's strongest feats of strength.I don't think Terrax is anywhere near Superman's level..he couldn't even beat Dazzler.I don't think the Mighty Avengers combined can take Superman.He is far faster and stronger than all of them.Majestic isn't slightly below Superman...he's above him.
"
Majestic isn't being shown above him since DC took over Wildstorm.  
#29 Posted by Vance Astro (91196 posts) - - Show Bio
Alpha said:
"Vance Astro said:
"Alpha said:
"Many people keep comparing Sentry to Superman and stating that he is nowhere near his level. How do we know that? Is everyone going by his display against WWHulk? How about when he beat Terrax as though he was nothing. I think most people just don't like the character so there opinion of his power is a little bias. My point is that I don't think he could take Superman by himself but coupled with someone almost as strong as him would change my opinion. And since I put Majestic slighly below him, I think they same pairing can take Majestic."
We know that the latest version of Sentry has trouble lifting the SHIELD Helicarrier and beating Hulk.Superman's base limit is above Sentry's strongest feats of strength.I don't think Terrax is anywhere near Superman's level..he couldn't even beat Dazzler.I don't think the Mighty Avengers combined can take Superman.He is far faster and stronger than all of them.Majestic isn't slightly below Superman...he's above him.
"
Majestic isn't being shown above him since DC took over Wildstorm.  "
Sentry couldn't beat either.
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#30 Posted by King Saturn (224040 posts) - - Show Bio
I am really interested to see how powerful Sentry will be at his full potential...
#31 Posted by Buckshot (18915 posts) - - Show Bio
Alpha said:
Majestic isn't being shown above him since DC took over Wildstorm.  "
You keep saying that despite the fact that DC bought Wildstorm before both of Majestic's solo series and about half of his appearances. Most of his better feats have come from the time he's belonged to DC. Things like moving planets, surviving an explosion that destroyed the Earth (and the moon), being unphased by Maul's punches and knocking him out (which happened before DC too), altering reality, multiple examples of FTL travel, above nanosecond reaction times (also some examples pre-DC), trashing Eradicator, energy and matter manipulation, most (maybe all, not sure) examples of his tech and his senses, etc. I could keep going, but now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure all the feats I might reference if I were backing up Maj in a fight come from after DC came into posession of him. 
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#32 Posted by Alpha (7331 posts) - - Show Bio
Buckshot said:
"Alpha said:
Majestic isn't being shown above him since DC took over Wildstorm.  "
You keep saying that despite the fact that DC bought Wildstorm before both of Majestic's solo series and about half of his appearances. Most of his better feats have come from the time he's belonged to DC. Things like moving planets, surviving an explosion that destroyed the Earth (and the moon), being unphased by Maul's punches and knocking him out (which happened before DC too), altering reality, multiple examples of FTL travel, above nanosecond reaction times (also some examples pre-DC), trashing Eradicator, energy and matter manipulation, most (maybe all, not sure) examples of his tech and his senses, etc. I could keep going, but now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure all the feats I might reference if I were backing up Maj in a fight come from after DC came into posession of him. "
I know all that but since they had him come to their universe he has been less than Superman. Being restrained or not, Superman would never be written to knocked out by one punch by anybody. If that was possible, Superboy Prime punch would knocked himout ready for it or not.

Now his intellect is something else. He is way smarter than Superman (even when Supes is written to be smart), butwe are talking about power.
#33 Posted by Oluf_Von_Host_Museum (84681 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman has been one shot a couple times.

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#34 Posted by Alpha (7331 posts) - - Show Bio
Gambler said:
"Superman has been one shot a couple times."

Name one, please.

I can accept I could be wrong.
#35 Posted by Buckshot (18915 posts) - - Show Bio
Alpha said:
I know all that but since they had him come to their universe he has been less than Superman. Being restrained or not, Superman would never be written to knocked out by one punch by anybody. If that was possible, Superboy Prime punch would knocked himout ready for it or not. 

Now his intellect is something else. He is way smarter than Superman (even when Supes is written to be smart), butwe are talking about power."
He's not in their universe. He's still in his. Nothing about his placement has actually changed. And again, just because he's not always shown at his best doesn't mean he's suddenly less than Superman. 

Alpha said:
"Gambler said:
"Superman has been one shot a couple times."

Name one, please.

I can accept I could be wrong."

Just one? On the left is probably the most recent, when Konvict knocked out Supes with a single punch in Trinity 3. And that was after he taunted Konvict, so he should have been ready for it. I can think of at least 5 or 6 more, but you wanted one.
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#36 Posted by Alpha (7331 posts) - - Show Bio
Buckshot said:
"
Alpha said:
I know all that but since they had him come to their universe he has been less than Superman. Being restrained or not, Superman would never be written to knocked out by one punch by anybody. If that was possible, Superboy Prime punch would knocked himout ready for it or not. 

Now his intellect is something else. He is way smarter than Superman (even when Supes is written to be smart), butwe are talking about power."
He's not in their universe. He's still in his. Nothing about his placement has actually changed. And again, just because he's not always shown at his best doesn't mean he's suddenly less than Superman. 

Alpha said:
"Gambler said:
"Superman has been one shot a couple times."

Name one, please.

I can accept I could be wrong."

Just one? On the left is probably the most recent, when Konvict knocked out Supes with a single punch in Trinity 3. And that was after he taunted Konvict, so he should have been ready for it. I can think of at least 5 or 6 more, but you wanted one.
"
I was refering to when he came to the DCU when Superman was in Kandor.

And Supes was more stun than knocked out because he jumped right back up. Unlike Majestic. And I was aware of that one. And that guy had to be strong to do something that not even Doomsday could do.

But what examples are there before that one?
#37 Posted by Buckshot (18915 posts) - - Show Bio

You said "since DC took over Wildstorm". My point still stands though, just because he's not always at his best (regardless of the point in time you start looking from) doesn't mean anything. Besides that, a good chunk of what I mentioned in my first post on this page came after even the point you're referencing now.

Doesn't matter if he got up quickly in the next issue, you said "Superman would never be written to knocked out by one punch by anybody." (Am I going to have to keep telling you what you said?) But he did. Recently. He was hit with one punch and he was knocked out. Stop trying to change what's going on and just accept it (like you said you would). And of course the guy was strong, he knocked out Superman! This wasn't a question of if Superman could be knocked out, but if it would be written, and it was. Here are some others (though you really shouldn't need them since you claimed one would be enough)  Zod once broke his jaw with one punch (didn't knock him out but Superman didn't want to fight anymore, so I'd say it's the same about of embarassment for Superman). Hal Jordan has one shotted him, so has Despero. Cyborg Superman has done it. Captain Marvel did it once (sucker punch, but you said it didn't matter how). Orion has as well. There are probably more, but I'm not searching.
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#38 Posted by Alpha (7331 posts) - - Show Bio
Buckshot said:
"You said "since DC took over Wildstorm". My point still stands though, just because he's not always at his best (regardless of the point in time you start looking from) doesn't mean anything. Besides that, a good chunk of what I mentioned in my first post on this page came after even the point you're referencing now.
Doesn't matter if he got up quickly in the next issue, you said "Superman would never be written to knocked out by one punch by anybody." (Am I going to have to keep telling you what you said?) But he did. Recently. He was hit with one punch and he was knocked out. Stop trying to change what's going on and just accept it (like you said you would). And of course the guy was strong, he knocked out Superman! This wasn't a question of if Superman could be knocked out, but if it would be written, and it was. Here are some others (though you really shouldn't need them since you claimed one would be enough)  Zod once broke his jaw with one punch (didn't knock him out but Superman didn't want to fight anymore, so I'd say it's the same about of embarassment for Superman). Hal Jordan has one shotted him, so has Despero. Cyborg Superman has done it. Captain Marvel did it once (sucker punch, but you said it didn't matter how). Orion has as well. There are probably more, but I'm not searching.
"
But if you tally his whole existence from beginning to now, he has more of a history of being weaker than Superman. 

But all of this doesn't matter since I stated that it was his level during Dreamwar, which at best would be equal to Superman.
#39 Posted by Buckshot (18915 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't see it as anything different from any other character. Even Superman doesn't do his best all the time. He has the strength to lift mountains, but if you look at his whole existence from beginning to now, he has more of a history of being weaker than that strength level. He has the strength to punch holes in planets, but if you look at his whole existence from beginning to now, he has more of a history of being weaker than that strength level. Just because he doesn't show it all the time doesn't mean he doesn't have that strength. Same for Majestic.

And even limited in that way (which is unfair simply because of the dearth of feats in that 6 issue event) he's still head and shoulders above any of the Mighty Avengers. 
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#40 Posted by Alpha (7331 posts) - - Show Bio
Buckshot said:
"I don't see it as anything different from any other character. Even Superman doesn't do his best all the time. He has the strength to lift mountains, but if you look at his whole existence from beginning to now, he has more of a history of being weaker than that strength level. He has the strength to punch holes in planets, but if you look at his whole existence from beginning to now, he has more of a history of being weaker than that strength level. Just because he doesn't show it all the time doesn't mean he doesn't have that strength. Same for Majestic.
And even limited in that way (which is unfair simply because of the dearth of feats in that 6 issue event) he's still head and shoulders above any of the Mighty Avengers. 
"

I see your point, but let me ask one question. I know most feel that Sentry is mush weaker because he was unable to beat th eHulk or hold u that Sheild Carrier. I would like to know has Majectic done anything greater than that since his last series and his apppearances since then?

I know he didn't he he first appeared in Wildcats or in Wildcore.
#41 Posted by Buckshot (18915 posts) - - Show Bio

You're saying the same thing but trying to do it in a different way. 

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#42 Posted by Alpha (7331 posts) - - Show Bio
Buckshot said:
"You're saying the same thing but trying to do it in a different way. "

I thought I asked a question.

I wondered if u knew of any feats by Majestic since his last series that was equal to or greater than Sentry trying to hold up the Carrier by himslef?