"What do some people see in Wildcat? He is in no way in the league of guys that he is put against here like Batman, Nightwing, Daredevil, Shiva, etc.Sorry but had to take that out of my system"
"What do some people see in Wildcat? He is in no way in the league of guys that he is put against here like Batman, Nightwing, Daredevil, Shiva, etc.Sorry but had to take that out of my system"
"What do some people see in Wildcat? He is in no way in the league of guys that he is put against here like Batman, Nightwing, Daredevil, Shiva, etc.Sorry but had to take that out of my system"
He's nowhere near the same level as Lady Shiva. She learns a 100 new fighting styles a year while throwing away the ones that are outdated. Wildcat is old school. He ain't learned squat since 1980. "jab, jab, super punch" ain't gonna work here.
"He's nowhere near the same level as Lady Shiva. She learns a 100 new fighting styles a year while throwing away the ones that are outdated. Wildcat is old school. He ain't learned squat since 1980. "jab, jab, super punch" ain't gonna work here."
So basic attacks, and what else he's a proficient boxer?
"It doesn't really matter seeing as how Boxing is the only one he actually uses."
Maybe it's his primary style because it's the only one that's convenient most of the time. That doesn't take away from everything else he's mastered though.
He's nowhere near the same level as Lady Shiva. She learns a 100 new fighting styles a year while throwing away the ones that are outdated. Wildcat is old school. He ain't learned squat since 1980. "jab, jab, super punch" ain't gonna work here.
There are just so many ways the body can move. Why would she waste her time learning a 100 new fighting styles a year? If anything, she doesn't understand fighting at all if she's over killing her training that much.
Also, I get the distinct feeling that many here do not consider Boxing a martial art? Boxing is not just someone using their fists to attack. A boxer must know human anatomy and weak points in order to be successful. A boxer is trained to go for the temple, chin, throat,nose, liver, solar plexus and could easily hit the kidneys, groin. Without gloves these attacks are much easier to execute.
Ted has: 60+ years experience
9 lives
The ability to punch a man that can move at the speed of light.
The ability to adapt his fighting technique to his opponent ( see JSU Classified #35)
How would Shiva match his hand speed, durability, weight difference (it does matter) or strength? She would have to rely on grappling, which grant knows enough about (trained in hapkido, freestyle wrestling) to stay away from.
There are just so many ways the body can move. Why would she waste her time learning a 100 new fighting styles a year? If anything, she doesn't understand fighting at all if she's over killing her training that much.
Its actually a dozen, that was a misrepresentation on my part. Let me start by saying applying real life logic to comicbook logic is a falling argument. The obvious intent of the above statement (made by Shiva) is to illustrate that she is a constantly changing evolving character who masters new techniques and incorporates them into her own style. Keeping and mixing the philosophies she deems useful while discarding the ones she does not. @Quack Attack said:
Also, I get the distinct feeling that many here do not consider Boxing a martial art? Boxing is not just someone using their fists to attack. A boxer must know human anatomy and weak points in order to be successful. A boxer is trained to go for the temple, chin, throat,nose, liver, solar plexus and could easily hit the kidneys, groin. Without gloves these attacks are much easier to execute.
Of course its a martial art, but so? Shiva's credited as being a master of all forms of fighting (this would include boxing). Which means she's aware of the fighting foundation Wildcat brings to the table. And although Wildcat is an extremely well rounded fighter and elite level boxer, he doesn't know or mastered the styles Shiva has. So regardless of him knowing anatomy or not its already been established that Shiva does as well and to a greater degree. In the scan below she observes the dead bodies of four individuals and names off the exact martial arts technique/strike used to kill them simply by looking at them. @Quack Attack said:
Ted has: 60+ years experience
9 lives
The ability to punch a man that can move at the speed of light.
The ability to adapt his fighting technique to his opponent ( see JSU Classified #35)
How would Shiva match his hand speed, durability, weight difference (it does matter) or strength? She would have to rely on grappling, which grant knows enough about (trained in hapkido, freestyle wrestling) to stay away from.
I believe Grant wins more often than not.
He has 60+ years experience but its predominantly fixated in one area. 9 lives means nothing. The OP doesnt state she needs to kill him to defeat him. We all know Wildcat doesnt move at the speed of light so this isnt even an issue. He's been tagged and missed characters who are slower then light speed more times then not. But if we're using PIS feats then Shiva's defeated Shadowdragon who's suit allowed him to out maneuver Superman to the point in which Superman makes the comment, "I'm not use to fighting someone faster then me." She'll have no problem with his speed. Her reaction/speed feats are easily on par with his. Wildcat may be able to adapt to the fighting techniques of his opponents but Shiva can see her opponents moves before they make them. Why would she have to grapple with him? She's faster then he is. She knows single maneuver strikes that kill (The Leopard Paw). In some countries its an honor to be killed be her. Wildcat has enough elite level skills that he could win this fight, but I disagree with the reasoning you've supplied. His strength and durability are the only two advantages he has and those can be overcome with superior skill, speed, and techniques.
The ability to punch a man that can move at the speed of light.
That's because either Jay allowed it to happen, or he was being depowered in the process.
Jay Garrick wasn't trying to fight Ted (who appeared to be brainwashed). At the same time, Jay claimed that he was losing his speed (and that the speed gap between him and Wildcat was closing), making it easier for Wildcat to tag him.
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In another, Jay Garrick told Ted to strike him because of the spear's mind-control. In essence, Jay allowed himself to be struck by Wildcat.
@k4tzm4n: lol.Shiva beats his punk Ass.Quoting Vance Astro here btw. @Gambler: Where's the first scan from? the one where she is examining those bodies?
There are just so many ways the body can move. Why would she waste her time learning a 100 new fighting styles a year? If anything, she doesn't understand fighting at all if she's over killing her training that much.
Its actually a dozen, that was a misrepresentation on my part. Let me start by saying applying real life logic to comicbook logic is a falling argument. The obvious intent of the above statement (made by Shiva) is to illustrate that she is a constantly changing evolving character who masters new techniques and incorporates them into her own style. Keeping and mixing the philosophies she deems useful while discarding the ones she does not. @Quack Attack said:
Also, I get the distinct feeling that many here do not consider Boxing a martial art? Boxing is not just someone using their fists to attack. A boxer must know human anatomy and weak points in order to be successful. A boxer is trained to go for the temple, chin, throat,nose, liver, solar plexus and could easily hit the kidneys, groin. Without gloves these attacks are much easier to execute.
Of course its a martial art, but so? Shiva's credited as being a master of all forms of fighting (this would include boxing). Which means she's aware of the fighting foundation Wildcat brings to the table. And although Wildcat is an extremely well rounded fighter and elite level boxer, he doesn't know or mastered the styles Shiva has. So regardless of him knowing anatomy or not its already been established that Shiva does as well and to a greater degree. In the scan below she observes the dead bodies of four individuals and names off the exact martial arts technique/strike used to kill them simply by looking at them. @Quack Attack said:
Ted has: 60+ years experience
9 lives
The ability to punch a man that can move at the speed of light.
The ability to adapt his fighting technique to his opponent ( see JSU Classified #35)
How would Shiva match his hand speed, durability, weight difference (it does matter) or strength? She would have to rely on grappling, which grant knows enough about (trained in hapkido, freestyle wrestling) to stay away from.
I believe Grant wins more often than not.
He has 60+ years experience but its predominantly fixated in one area. 9 lives means nothing. The OP doesnt state she needs to kill him to defeat him. We all know Wildcat doesnt move at the speed of light so this isnt even an issue. He's been tagged and missed characters who are slower then light speed more times then not. But if we're using PIS feats then Shiva's defeated Shadowdragon who's suit allowed him to out maneuver Superman to the point in which Superman makes the comment, "I'm not use to fighting someone faster then me." She'll have no problem with his speed. Her reaction/speed feats are easily on par with his. Wildcat may be able to adapt to the fighting techniques of his opponents but Shiva can see her opponents moves before they make them. Why would she have to grapple with him? She's faster then he is. She knows single maneuver strikes that kill (The Leopard Paw). In some countries its an honor to be killed be her. Wildcat has enough elite level skills that he could win this fight, but I disagree with the reasoning you've supplied. His strength and durability are the only two advantages he has and those can be overcome with superior skill, speed, and techniques.
A. 60 + years experience is huge- this makes him beyond an elite boxer. People like B. Clay Moore acknowledge and honor this point by making Wildcat the badass he should be. More and more Wildcat is shown doing magical feats using his boxing prowess and people are like "He can't do that!". But why? Wouldn't his Boxing ability appear magical in the same way Lady Shiva's supposedly does? Don't think of it as boxing, think of it as Super Boxing.
B. She's a master of all forms of fighting (including boxing)? So what. Knowing boxing means absolutely nothing. That's like saying she could beat Deadshot because she has trained with guns. Regardless of "knowing" a martial art, you still must train to master it (you see what I did there?). Furthermore, the "mastery" she has with boxing would not prepare her for what Ted could do. He is not simply a master, Ted is a virtuoso.
C. Issue #38 of JSA Classified Ted is shown, second by second changing his style to counterattack a bunch of guys with his knowledge of boxing He easily defeats them all in a matter of minutes. If a hero is going to get by with fists and little else, he's got to be able to predict movement. I believe that Ted would agree that Shiva's "fancy Dan" movements in the first scan are easily read. Also, did she defeat this Shadowdragon by being faster than him or predicting his movement?
A. 60 + years experience is huge- this makes him beyond an elite boxer. People like B. Clay Moore acknowledge and honor this point by making Wildcat the badass he should be. More and more Wildcat is shown doing magical feats using his boxing prowess and people are like "He can't do that!". But why? Wouldn't his Boxing ability appear magical in the same way Lady Shiva's supposedly does? Don't think of it as boxing, think of it as Super Boxing.
Magic Boxing? Super Boxing? Do you have examples or issue numbers in which his boxing is depicted as anything other then elite level boxing? I never said he couldnt do this that or the other thing. But unless you have specific examples all you're doing is speculating.
@Quack Attack said:
B. She's a master of all forms of fighting (including boxing)? So what. Knowing boxing means absolutely nothing. That's like saying she could beat Deadshot because she has trained with guns. Regardless of "knowing" a martial art, you still must train to master it (you see what I did there?). Furthermore, the "mastery" she has with boxing would not prepare her for what Ted could do. He is not simply a master, Ted is a virtuoso.
Mastering all forms of combat is not the same as "Knowing boxing." Its not like saying anything about Deadshot and guns at all. Its simply being a "Master" of all fighting forms. It doesnt need an analogy. She doesn't need to match his boxing skills, I think you missed the point I was making. I see what you did there, you swapped out "master of all fighting forms" and substituted it with "knowing" which isnt the same thing or even close to it. Also the point wasnt her ability to match his level of boxing, she doesnt need to. It was about her understanding beyond the realm of a novice fighter what he'll bring to the table. Boxing has a ceiling, there are only so many techniques you can master before hitting the ceiling were as Shiva's martial arts mastery expands to a larger number of styles as well as variations. Simply put she has more tools in her tool box.
@Quack Attack said:
C. Issue #38 of JSA Classified Ted is shown, second by second changing his style to counterattack a bunch of guys with his knowledge of boxing He easily defeats them all in a matter of minutes. If a hero is going to get by with fists and little else, he's got to be able to predict movement. I believe that Ted would agree that Shiva's "fancy Dan" movements in the first scan are easily read. Also, did she defeat this Shadowdragon by being faster than him or predicting his movement?
Ted lands punches in bunches and wins.
That means what exactly? That Ted can beat people who use the exact same style as him? Thats good but it means nothing against a fighter who can predict what he's going to do before he does it using styles he's never seen. Adapting accordingly to fighters who are in your wheel house is a common ability. Most top level fighters are able to "anticipate" their opponents moves, I agree. However Lady Shiva and a hand full of others have been defined by this ability and DC has gone out of their way to depict her using this ability beyond that of conventional fighters. Its basically a super-power as the scan above shows. Again, Ted being able to predict Shiva's moves arent based on anything besides your speculation. She beat Shadowdragon with a combination of all her skills combined, not one individual aspect. Not sure how Ted lands punches in bunches on a character who's faster and can read his movements.
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