Who's the strongest Pyro?

In terms of fire ability, not counting characters who can make fire because they can reality warp or do some gamma trick, who are the strongest fire dudes? Just Marvel? Just DC? I'm guessing a lot of people will automatically say Phoenix Force for first place...

@D3athstroke said:

 

yep

Surtur. 
 
Other top marvel ones: Firelord and Nova.  Phoenix is  fire-oriented, but I tend to see it as more of a metaphoric fire than real flames.

Surtur.  Other top marvel ones: Firelord and Nova.  Phoenix is  fire-oriented, but I tend to see it as more of a metaphoric fire than real flames.

This is obviously the strongest Pyro.  
 

Surtur would win hands down. But is that magical fire or real fire? I'm not sure about Surtur, Firelord, Phoenix etc. But if you count any fire, I would say Surtur. Odin could beat him but he would have to reality warp to make fire.  Maybe a second question to prolong this argument, who is strongest fire dude without magic/cosmic/reality warping? You can't say Rulk, he's tricky (cosmic powers). Can't Nova (Richard Rider) make fire? Then there's Doc Strange, the Faltine.... magic magic. Torch is cosmic, I'm arguing with myself lol. The Hell Lords also magic. I'd say Nova > Rusty Collins > Firestar > Sunspot > Pyro..... any opinions? 

Due to rules and Surtur is an elemental, using real fire, he wins. Otherwise obviously Odin would take him.

What about in DC universe? Would Lucifer win? Light entities technically use light without fire.........

Actual fire=Human Torch 
Hell Fire=Dorammu or Gohst Rider 
Fire/Energy=Phoenix

Sutur most likely. Someone else who comes to mind is Pyron from darkstalkers.

Johnny Storm takes this, just for the one time when I think it was Franklin who boosted his power. Johnny reached Planck temperature, a heat where conventional physics breaks down.  I don't think Surtur ever gets close to creating flames of that level.

Firestorm's pretty powerful on the DC side.

surtur, Nova, firelord, Human torch (at peak), GR. 

Pyro.

Surtur, easily.

No one compares to Surtur except people who can reality warp make fire like Odin. I think the Hell Lords might make better fire than Dormammu, and obviously better than Ghost Rider due to higharchy. Phoenix is over rated, especially on CV. In terms of demons: Tetragrammaton > Norse > Seraphim  > Shuma-Gorath > Agamotto > Elder Gods > Trion > Octessence > Dark Gods > Fear Lords > Hell Lords > Zom > Faltine > Minor demons. Technically, Elder Gods are not demons, but I use it to classify all Elder Gods and Fallen Elder Gods like Chthon.

* Tetregrammaton is called demon in Marvel, regardless of affiliation.

I think Surtur's fire is natural, in the same sense that Ymir's ice is real ice, not some substitute "mystical ice" or anything. 
 
Pyro is an interesting option, in the sense that he doesn't make fire, he just controls it, so maybe a side question is, which fire-based characters are so powerful that he couldn't control their flame?  I would say Surtur, Nova, Firelord would all override his power.  But how about Firestar, Sunfire, Human Torch, etc.? 
 
Is Firestorm (DC)'s fire real fire?  I think it's more of a nuclear thing.

Torch is probably the strongest between himself, Sunspot, Firestar, Pyro, Magma, Rusty Collins.......because his powers are cosmic powered. If one of them could burn underwater, that would be different.