Who's a better father Punisher or Reed Richards?

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Dark_Vengeance_

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#51  Edited By Dark_Vengeance_

@BlueHope: Yeah but it's okay for Aquaman to do so, after all 4/6 dead sidekicks is all right, what about Captain America? Bucky died for a while right? and then there is Donna Troy, she died also. It seems that little underage kids have a better chance of living than powered young adults trained by somebody else.

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YoungJustice

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#52  Edited By YoungJustice

@DarkKnightDetective said:

@xeon1cs: I know, but I make a comment and everyone starts hating.

No one is hating, Batman constantly puts at risk teens into dangerous situations, if that isn't bad parenting I don't know what the word is.

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BlueHope

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#53  Edited By BlueHope

@DarkKnightDetective said:

@BlueHope: Yeah but it's okay for Aquaman to do so, after all 4/6 dead sidekicks is all right, what about Captain America? Bucky died for a while right? and then there is Donna Troy, she died also. It seems that little underage kids have a better chance of living than powered young adults trained by somebody else.

ok man lets stop here, if you wanna continue to debating about that create a thread just for that, we are going too far talking about batman when the theme is how punisher teach Dr.Doom and Galactus to be good kids

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Shawnbaby

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#54  Edited By Shawnbaby

@joshmightbe said:

Anyone wondering why Batman fan boys have a bad image look no further than this thread. Read the OP and thread title, no mention of Batman what so ever yet 90% of this thread is about Batman.

This is pretty much dead on.

Just another case of a Batman fanboy making all other Batman fanboys look bad.

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joshmightbe

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#55  Edited By joshmightbe

@Shawnbaby: True, and I actually like Batman but these guys make it hard to side with him for fear of being lumped in with them.

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Dark_Vengeance_

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#56  Edited By Dark_Vengeance_

@joshmightbe: Look at what I did to this thread with some opinions and a couple of facts, you know what I notice, nobody hates when things go as expected, even if it is horrifying, If tomorrow a they announce a death of a character or a hero will turn into a mass murderer, nobody hates, because it's all part of a plan, but when I say that it's okay for Batman to have a sidekick. Well then everyone looses their mind! Introduce a different point of view, upset the established order and everything becomes chaos...I'm a agent of chaos, and you know the thing about chaos, it's fair.

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joshmightbe

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#57  Edited By joshmightbe

@DarkKnightDetective: Yea quoting the Dark Knight is totally helping your case here. The point is this didn't have a damned thing to do with Batman but you completely derailed the thread because of your childish need to turn everything into a way of saying you like Batman despite the fact that your Screen Name tells us this. You know what I like the Hulk but did I bring up his parenting skills here? No, and why not? Because he had nothing to do with the thread.

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Vorzhilok_the_Traumatizer

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Literally anyone ever is a better father than Reed Richards.

Honestly Doom should just take Reed's family away already because Reed's become the bigger villain.

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Dark_Vengeance_

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#59  Edited By Dark_Vengeance_

@joshmightbe: Like nobody else put their opinion on who is the best father in comics, the only thing I did was post it first and respond to the comments that critized my opinion by saying why I believed that, they didn't really have to answer back.

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joshmightbe

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#60  Edited By joshmightbe

@DarkKnightDetective: I'm not saying they were right for doing it, I was saying it was completely unnecessary considering there actually are two threads dedicated to who is the best and worst father in comics, this was not, its about Punisher and Reed Richards.

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Dark_Vengeance_

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#61  Edited By Dark_Vengeance_

@joshmightbe: Wasn't aware of those threads.

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joshmightbe

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#62  Edited By joshmightbe

@DarkKnightDetective: Now you are

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Shawnbaby

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#63  Edited By Shawnbaby

@DarkKnightDetective said:

@joshmightbe: Like nobody else put their opinion on who is the best father in comics, the only thing I did was post it first and respond to the comments that critized my opinion by saying why I believed that, they didn't really have to answer back.

There are plenty of responses to that. Putting your son in deadly danger every night because of your own personal obsession is bad parenting.

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Saren

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#64  Edited By Saren

Reed. By far. Those old moments where he slapped his wife and son are out of context (in the case of him slapping Sue) or just plain unusual (in the case of him slapping Franklin). It's true that one of the traits of his character is that he can be emotionally distant at times, but the man genuinely cares about his family. He rejected the Council of Reeds in favor of his family. The future Franklin from Hickman's run even testified that Reed and Sue were the best parents he could have asked for. There's another instance that's often brought up where Reed sent Franklin into a catatonic state with a ray gun, but he had no choice there ---- Franklin was seconds away from accidentally wiping out the solar system. What was he supposed to do?

In contrast, the Punisher's children were resurrected and it was left ambiguous as to whether they were really alive again or just well disguised zombies. Frank didn't even try to find out. He just burned them alive while they begged him to stop.

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Shawnbaby

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#65  Edited By Shawnbaby

@CitizenBane said:

Reed. By far. Those old moments where he slapped his wife and son are out of context (in the case of him slapping Sue) or just plain unusual (in the case of him slapping Franklin). It's true that one of the traits of his character is that he can be emotionally distant at times, but the man genuinely cares about his family. He rejected the Council of Reeds in favor of his family. The future Franklin from Hickman's run even testified that Reed and Sue were the best parents he could have asked for. There's another instance that's often brought up where Reed sent Franklin into a catatonic state with a ray gun, but he had no choice there ---- Franklin was seconds away from accidentally wiping out the solar system. What was he supposed to do?

In contrast, the Punisher's children were resurrected and it was left ambiguous as to whether they were really alive orgain or just well disguised zombies. Frank didn't even try to find out. He just burned them alive while they begged him to stop.

The case of him slapping Franklin was actually from a What If? story i believe. And with Sue I believe she was possessed or something like that and he had some kinda of strategy that involved slapping her like that...can't remember precisely. Just to provide the context you are talking about.

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Saren

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#66  Edited By Saren

@Shawnbaby said:

@CitizenBane said:

Reed. By far. Those old moments where he slapped his wife and son are out of context (in the case of him slapping Sue) or just plain unusual (in the case of him slapping Franklin). It's true that one of the traits of his character is that he can be emotionally distant at times, but the man genuinely cares about his family. He rejected the Council of Reeds in favor of his family. The future Franklin from Hickman's run even testified that Reed and Sue were the best parents he could have asked for. There's another instance that's often brought up where Reed sent Franklin into a catatonic state with a ray gun, but he had no choice there ---- Franklin was seconds away from accidentally wiping out the solar system. What was he supposed to do?

In contrast, the Punisher's children were resurrected and it was left ambiguous as to whether they were really alive orgain or just well disguised zombies. Frank didn't even try to find out. He just burned them alive while they begged him to stop.

The case of him slapping Franklin was actually from a What If? story i believe. And with Sue I believe she was possessed or something like that and he had some kinda of strategy that involved slapping her like that...can't remember precisely. Just to provide the context you are talking about.

Sue was Malice at the time, and there's another canon instance of Reed slapping Franklin from an early 90's (I think?) comic. But like I said, it's not how he's usually portrayed.

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Emperorb777

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#67  Edited By Emperorb777

Man I've learned so much about Batman from this thread like how he forced all of his adopted sons at gun point to become Robin and how none of them know how to make their own life choices.

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BlueHope

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#68  Edited By BlueHope

@Immortal777 said:

Man I've learned so much about Batman from this thread like how he forced all of his adopted sons at gun point to become Robin and how none of them know how to make their own life choices.

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Shawnbaby

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#69  Edited By Shawnbaby

@Immortal777 said:

Man I've learned so much about Batman from this thread like how he forced all of his adopted sons at gun point to become Robin and how none of them know how to make their own life choices.

Did he force them to become Robins? No. Would a responsible parent/guardian give a child the choice to become a street Vigilante? No.

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ComicStooge

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#70  Edited By ComicStooge

@CitizenBane said:

Reed. By far. Those old moments where he slapped his wife and son are out of context (in the case of him slapping Sue) or just plain unusual (in the case of him slapping Franklin). It's true that one of the traits of his character is that he can be emotionally distant at times, but the man genuinely cares about his family. He rejected the Council of Reeds in favor of his family. The future Franklin from Hickman's run even testified that Reed and Sue were the best parents he could have asked for. There's another instance that's often brought up where Reed sent Franklin into a catatonic state with a ray gun, but he had no choice there ---- Franklin was seconds away from accidentally wiping out the solar system. What was he supposed to do?

In contrast, the Punisher's children were resurrected and it was left ambiguous as to whether they were really alive again or just well disguised zombies. Frank didn't even try to find out. He just burned them alive while they begged him to stop.

To be fair, they were resurrected by the Hood.

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Emperorb777

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#71  Edited By Emperorb777

@Shawnbaby said:

@Immortal777 said:

Man I've learned so much about Batman from this thread like how he forced all of his adopted sons at gun point to become Robin and how none of them know how to make their own life choices.

Did he force them to become Robins? No. Would a responsible parent/guardian give a child the choice to become a street Vigilante? No.

As far as parenting part goes if the parent asks their kid if they want to do something dangerous who am I to judge them? Batman gave them a choice they made the decision you have to take responsibility for your own choices.

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Shawnbaby

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#72  Edited By Shawnbaby

@Immortal777 said:

@Shawnbaby said:

@Immortal777 said:

Man I've learned so much about Batman from this thread like how he forced all of his adopted sons at gun point to become Robin and how none of them know how to make their own life choices.

Did he force them to become Robins? No. Would a responsible parent/guardian give a child the choice to become a street Vigilante? No.

As far as parenting part goes if the parent asks their kid if they want to do something dangerous who am I to judge them? Batman gave them a choice they made the decision you have to take responsibility for your own choices.

No. Children, if given the choice, would eat ice cream for breakfast and never go to school, . That doesn't mean it's okay for you as a parent to let them. Children...as it turns out...don't always make the best choices.

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Emperorb777

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#73  Edited By Emperorb777

@Shawnbaby said:

@Immortal777 said:

@Shawnbaby said:

@Immortal777 said:

Man I've learned so much about Batman from this thread like how he forced all of his adopted sons at gun point to become Robin and how none of them know how to make their own life choices.

Did he force them to become Robins? No. Would a responsible parent/guardian give a child the choice to become a street Vigilante? No.

As far as parenting part goes if the parent asks their kid if they want to do something dangerous who am I to judge them? Batman gave them a choice they made the decision you have to take responsibility for your own choices.

No. Children, if given the choice, would eat ice cream for breakfast and never go to school, . That doesn't mean it's okay for you as a parent to let them. Children...as it turns out...don't always make the best choices.

Asking a kid if they want to eat ice cream for breakfast and asking them if they want to get shot at are two different things kids are not stupid. When I was a kid I could make the decision not to get shot at if thats a hard decision to make you need to just give up the world is a lot harder than that. Like you said kids don't always make the best decisions but they still make them and they have to live with them. If the child feels they have a good parent then said parent must be a good one you can't be the judge.

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Shawnbaby

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#74  Edited By Shawnbaby

@Immortal777 said:

@Shawnbaby said:

@Immortal777 said:

@Shawnbaby said:

@Immortal777 said:

Man I've learned so much about Batman from this thread like how he forced all of his adopted sons at gun point to become Robin and how none of them know how to make their own life choices.

Did he force them to become Robins? No. Would a responsible parent/guardian give a child the choice to become a street Vigilante? No.

As far as parenting part goes if the parent asks their kid if they want to do something dangerous who am I to judge them? Batman gave them a choice they made the decision you have to take responsibility for your own choices.

No. Children, if given the choice, would eat ice cream for breakfast and never go to school, . That doesn't mean it's okay for you as a parent to let them. Children...as it turns out...don't always make the best choices.

Asking a kid if they want to eat ice cream for breakfast and asking them if they want to get shot at are two different things kids are not stupid. When I was a kid I could make the decision not to get shot at if thats a hard decision to make you need to just give up the world is a lot harder than that. Like you said kids don't always make the best decisions but they still make them and they have to live with them. If the child feels they have a good parent then said parent must be a good one you can't be the judge.

Society can be a judge. And Society would tell any parent that willfully puts his/her child in danger that he/she is not fit to be a parent.

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Dextersinister

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#75  Edited By Dextersinister

@Shawnbaby said:

@Immortal777 said:

@Shawnbaby said:

@Immortal777 said:

Man I've learned so much about Batman from this thread like how he forced all of his adopted sons at gun point to become Robin and how none of them know how to make their own life choices.

Did he force them to become Robins? No. Would a responsible parent/guardian give a child the choice to become a street Vigilante? No.

As far as parenting part goes if the parent asks their kid if they want to do something dangerous who am I to judge them? Batman gave them a choice they made the decision you have to take responsibility for your own choices.

No. Children, if given the choice, would eat ice cream for breakfast and never go to school, . That doesn't mean it's okay for you as a parent to let them. Children...as it turns out...don't always make the best choices.

I'm with you on this one, if Batman existed in real life I would consider him a horrible person for having a teen sidekick. In comics it's ok since it's a relic from a different era of comics.

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entropy_aegis

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#76  Edited By entropy_aegis

@Shawnbaby said:

@DarkKnightDetective said:

@BlueHope: Hey out of all the dads in the comicbook world Batman is the best

Reed Richards beats his kids and wife.

Magneto is never around.

Punisher errr

Omni-man is a mass murderer even though he is getting better.

And hey, he only screwed up with Jason.

Yeah...He's such a great Dad...

Irrelevant scans from the Silver age,and whose intent is innocent but people started giving it a sinister angle.Had those people succeeded then we wouldn't even have these characters.

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entropy_aegis

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#77  Edited By entropy_aegis

@DarkKnightDetective: And you really are quite obnoxious aren't you? this is NOT about Batman.

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Shawnbaby

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#78  Edited By Shawnbaby

@entropy_aegis said:

@Shawnbaby said:

@DarkKnightDetective said:

@BlueHope: Hey out of all the dads in the comicbook world Batman is the best

Reed Richards beats his kids and wife.

Magneto is never around.

Punisher errr

Omni-man is a mass murderer even though he is getting better.

And hey, he only screwed up with Jason.

Yeah...He's such a great Dad...

Irrelevant scans from the Silver age,and whose intent is innocent but people started giving it a sinister angle.Had those people succeeded then we wouldn't even have these characters.

T'was just a joke, man.

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entropy_aegis

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#79  Edited By entropy_aegis

@Shawnbaby:Ok,just making sure,many people DO try to pass them off as legit.

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OhItsThatGuy

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#80  Edited By OhItsThatGuy

Batman was an alright dad. Don't understand why everyone is making him out to be worst father of the millennium.

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Pokeysteve

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#81  Edited By Pokeysteve

@DarkKnightDetective said:

@Pokeysteve: Yes I can.

Dick would have been thrown into arkham because he was traumatized with the death of his parents.

Jason would have turned into a criminal.

Tim, err, well he would have had a pretty good life.

Ra's al ghul would have taken over Damian's body.

We'll never know about Dick.

Jason turned into a criminal anyways.

You get a point for Damian.

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Vorzhilok_the_Traumatizer

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When the hell was this thread about Batman?

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god_spawn

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#83  Edited By god_spawn  Moderator

Reed wins. The greatest dad in Marvel compared to some others....

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theONEtaichou

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#84  Edited By theONEtaichou

this thread scares me.... also weird!

I pick Jonathan Kent

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Smart_Dork_Dude

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#85  Edited By Smart_Dork_Dude

Reed as we have no proof that Frank was a GOOD father. He was most definitely a loving father, but that doesn't always equal out to good.

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joshmightbe

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#86  Edited By joshmightbe

@Vorzhilok_the_Traumatizer said:

When the hell was this thread about Batman?

Batman Fan boys have to make literally everything about Batman or else their incredibly fragile self esteem may collapse

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YourNeighborhoodComicGeek

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@DarkKnightDetective said:

Batman wins

He gave Dick closure.

He got Jason off the streets and gave him a better home.

He gave Tim a purpose in life.

He got Damian to stop killing.

Too bad only the last one is valid.

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joshmightbe

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#88  Edited By joshmightbe

@YourNeighborhoodComicGeek: Lots of kids have their parents die, many actually right in front of them in the real world with out going insane.

There's literally no way to know what would have happened with Jason if Batman hadn't found him, sure him sticking with a life of crime was possible but it was equally possible someone else could have come along and gave him a decent home and a chance at a good life.

Tim's life would have probably gone a lot better without Batman, that kid already had everything he needed to go on to a very successful life, smart, driven, assertive, he's the definition of what most people say a successful professional should be.

The Damian thing is true.

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YourNeighborhoodComicGeek

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@joshmightbe said:

@YourNeighborhoodComicGeek: Lots of kids have their parents die, many actually right in front of them in the real world with out going insane.

There's literally no way to know what would have happened with Jason if Batman hadn't found him, sure him sticking with a life of crime was possible but it was equally possible someone else could have come along and gave him a decent home and a chance at a good life.

Tim's life would have probably gone a lot better without Batman, that kid already had everything he needed to go on to a very successful life, smart, driven, assertive, he's the definition of what most people say a successful professional should be.

The Damian thing is true.

I didn't say Batman wasn't good at tutoring, nurturing, and guiding other people, but he technically wasn't their biological father. He was their guardian I guess, but I'm not sure that counts as an actual father. Damian is the only real father component, but from what I've seen he has done a fair job at that.

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Shawnbaby

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#90  Edited By Shawnbaby

@YourNeighborhoodComicGeek said:

@joshmightbe said:

@YourNeighborhoodComicGeek: Lots of kids have their parents die, many actually right in front of them in the real world with out going insane.

There's literally no way to know what would have happened with Jason if Batman hadn't found him, sure him sticking with a life of crime was possible but it was equally possible someone else could have come along and gave him a decent home and a chance at a good life.

Tim's life would have probably gone a lot better without Batman, that kid already had everything he needed to go on to a very successful life, smart, driven, assertive, he's the definition of what most people say a successful professional should be.

The Damian thing is true.

I didn't say Batman wasn't good at tutoring, nurturing, and guiding other people, but he technically wasn't their biological father. He was their guardian I guess, but I'm not sure that counts as an actual father. Damian is the only real father component, but from what I've seen he has done a fair job at that.

"I got my son to stop killing people. Now when I put him in a brightly coloured costume and have him accompany me while I fight dangerous criminals some of which are superhuman and have been known to eat children,he's in a position to question his instincts. I'm such a great dad."

As regards your other point, being a guardian counts as being a parent. When you adopt a child you become just as responsible for his/her well-being as if he/she were your biological offspring. If Child Protective Services ever found out what Bruce does with his kids...they'd have scooped each of those boys out of Wayne Manor faster than you can say "Child Endangerment"

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nefarious

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#91  Edited By nefarious

Reed.

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YourNeighborhoodComicGeek

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@Shawnbaby said:

@YourNeighborhoodComicGeek said:

@joshmightbe said:

@YourNeighborhoodComicGeek: Lots of kids have their parents die, many actually right in front of them in the real world with out going insane.

There's literally no way to know what would have happened with Jason if Batman hadn't found him, sure him sticking with a life of crime was possible but it was equally possible someone else could have come along and gave him a decent home and a chance at a good life.

Tim's life would have probably gone a lot better without Batman, that kid already had everything he needed to go on to a very successful life, smart, driven, assertive, he's the definition of what most people say a successful professional should be.

The Damian thing is true.

I didn't say Batman wasn't good at tutoring, nurturing, and guiding other people, but he technically wasn't their biological father. He was their guardian I guess, but I'm not sure that counts as an actual father. Damian is the only real father component, but from what I've seen he has done a fair job at that.

"I got my son to stop killing people. Now when I put him in a brightly coloured costume and have him accompany me while I fight dangerous criminals some of which are superhuman and have been known to eat children,he's in a position to question his instincts. I'm such a great dad."

As regards your other point, being a guardian counts as being a parent. When you adopt a child you become just as responsible for his/her well-being as if he/she were your biological offspring. If Child Protective Services ever found out what Bruce does with his kids...they'd have scooped each of those boys out of Wayne Manor faster than you can say "Child Endangerment"

Huh. I guess that does count. However, Punisher automatically wins if he can command Galactus :P

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#93  Edited By joshmightbe

@YourNeighborhoodComicGeek: Oh My God we actually got back on topic

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@joshmightbe: It's a miracle!

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#95  Edited By joshmightbe

@YourNeighborhoodComicGeek: Only took 3 pages

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@joshmightbe: That's not that bad compared to YouTube comments.

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#97  Edited By joshmightbe

@YourNeighborhoodComicGeek: I can't go past page 2 on Youtube comments without a shower.

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@joshmightbe: I can't get past page 2 period. I mean no matter what the topic of the video is, there are always religon and politics being thrown around.