@gonnarain: you would still need the reaction speed to even access said power in order to do anything substantial. Having the power to stop time doesn't mean anything if you're dead before you can access this ability
I know, still it's not just the power to "stop" time, but controlling it at will. I honestly don't know about many time manipulators (I will admit I'm quite new at comics) so I'm just guessing here, but since it's not an uncommon power there has to be someone or a few out there who can control time at will.
Anyways, giving enough time to activate their ability and Wally is probably not making it.
But yeah, I guess The Flash will win most of the times.
DC Hermes since he can match the Flash's speeds? Mirror Master given that Flashes has trouble beating him? Or The Top? Professor Zoom or Hunter Zolomon? Doom Surfer? New Sun Gambit because he can control kinetic energy as well as Flash could!? The Runner?
Bloodlusted Alan Scott, Zoom, Majestros, SS, Thanos, Darkseid, Plutonian, HP Doomsday, Classic Strange, Classic Fate, Superman Prime, Tyrant, Doom with prep, Rogues with prep, Fernus, Divine Spawn, Zarathos GR and Adult Franklin Richards.
Wont beat him
Throw Thanos on that list too, unless you can counter react to Flash or tank his punches then you aren't winning, and Thanos can do neither
@malevolent1: I don't know. If Wally was using the Speed Force to its full potential and wasn't pulling his punches it would be hell hard for Surfer to tag him directly. Best thing I think SS could do is blow up the planet Wally is on.
well, he can't beat the rest....accept for maybe Fernus.....
He might be able to BFR Swamp Thing. I don't know anything about insane obsidian so I can't say.
but swamp thing is one with every green living thing, in principle, so i think it's impossible to bfr him since he can be anywhere he wants to be (that's green, vegetation wise). Obsidian (Todd Rice) is the bastard son of Alan Scott, who was corrupted by a villain named Ian Karkull and driven insane by the power of starheart. and he decided to cover the planet in darkness.... he is darkness personified, he is able to move as fast as light and can be anywhere at once, he can BFR Flash into the shadow realm, corrupt him like he did to the entire JSA (save his father), including DR Fate and Hourman .............. Beatboks knows way more about him than I do....but I'm sure he can beat Flash, especially since his intangibility can only be countered by light...and only the light of Starheart
@ancient_0f_days: Wally's BFR is to other dimensions/universes and even the future, I don't think Swamp Thing is a time Traveller. If he BFR'd swamp thing's main body, he'd just integrate with all the green in whatever universe/timeline he's in.
Obsidian sounds interesting but, like I said, I can't say. I don't know enough about his powers to know if Wally could affect him. I'll leave it up to your good judgement and not contest it.
@ancient_0f_days: Wally's BFR is to other dimensions/universes and even the future, I don't think Swamp Thing is a time Traveller. If he BFR'd swamp thing's main body, he'd just integrate with all the green in whatever universe/timeline he's in.
Obsidian sounds interesting but, like I said, I can't say. I don't know enough about his powers to know if Wally could affect him. I'll leave it up to your good judgement and not contest it.
I'd as beatboks if I were you, he knows more about Obsidian than almost everyone in this site, if not everyone.....he can tell you if Todd beats Wally or not.....
@ancient_0f_days: Wally's BFR is to other dimensions/universes and even the future, I don't think Swamp Thing is a time Traveller. If he BFR'd swamp thing's main body, he'd just integrate with all the green in whatever universe/timeline he's in.
Obsidian sounds interesting but, like I said, I can't say. I don't know enough about his powers to know if Wally could affect him. I'll leave it up to your good judgement and not contest it.
I'd as beatboks if I were you, he knows more about Obsidian than almost everyone in this site, if not everyone.....he can tell you if Todd beats Wally or not.....
but does everyone else really lose?
I dunno, maybe? Fernus was wicked powerful and the rest of the JL bricks had a hard time doing anything, so maybe Wally's IMPs would be useless. It's kind of hard to tell. Wally certainly has the tools available to him to give him notable advantages, at the very least. Like I said, he's the only Flash that's got a winning record against the Black Racer.
@malevolent1: I don't know. If Wally was using the Speed Force to its full potential and wasn't pulling his punches it would be hell hard for Surfer to tag him directly. Best thing I think SS could do is blow up the planet Wally is on.
Definitely. That would sure be one way.
In terms of speed, I've always seen these two as even. Now...you will never, ever, in a million years see Marvel portray Norrin the way they do Wally in terms of portrayals of speed, for example, whirling his arm at opponents and creating miniature blasts of air to push folks around, or multiple punches really fast. I mean, that is Wally's main deal: over the top speed feats. And I have mad respect for the character. Indeed, the fastest TIMED feats for the Surfer you will see are nano second feats (of which he has two). Wally's are chronicled in pico seconds. But when it gets down to the nitty gritty, with a few other speed feats by the Surfer one has to wonder if nano second reaction feats are all he is capable of. I won't post them, because there are probably a minimum of 100 scattered all over Comic Vine, but there is the searching the planet feat...which, if one examines fairly closely, is indicative of insane superliminal speeds. The Gauntlet grab is another. His greatest reaction feats, though include time freezing and him clearly capable of reacting during that time frame:
Fantastic Four 156, Surfer with FF in tow, moves fast enough to stop time
The narration could've said any number of things, indicating he crossed light speed, etc...but, specifically it is mentioned that time itself is stopped. Notice the resemblance between the feats of the Silver Surfer BFR'ing Durok and Wally BFR'ing Thawne:
After he and Thor are each bested by Durok, Surfer does the only thing he can. He crosses the time travel barrier while fighting Durok......and dumps Durok off in the future who has lost consciousness due to temporal strainVia the cosmic treadmill, Wally travels time and dumps Zoom off for time BFR
Obviously, both characters are capable of moving, thinking and reacting at speeds fast enough to travel time. The thing about time travel is that when traveling time, they are not covering points in space...but points in time. The normal senses we use to navigate our world daily are based things like the reflection of light off of the things we see. All those markers disappear with time travel...yet both characters can move from point in time to point in time with ease as they perceive the "world" around them at those speeds, Wally with the speed force, Norrin with the power cosmic. John Buscema illustrates the "strangeness" of time travel above, second scan. Notice the first two panels: the backdrop illustrates time travel shenanigans"...then the sky turns normal once his trip in time is over. Same thing with Wally: typically, when crossing the light speed barrier, or the time travel barrier, typically appears to be running through as "portal". Yet both characters can navigate and react at speeds fast enough to travel time.
@dredeuced: I just went through a Swamp Thing respect thread.....he's too damn powerful, he can traverse Galaxies/Universes/Dimensions/Time ..... he can time travel, he can also exist in and control the flora that exist in the human intestinal tract.....it would take me a LONG time to actually transfer/convert the scans from photo bucket to here, so .... I'll leave you with that....
@malevolent1: You've still never given a really good reason besides "They both time travel," which has never really made sense.
Hmmmm...well, thing is, both characters have been written where they need to "build up" to speeds just to cross the light speed barrier. And both have feats where they accelerate instantaneously. Honestly, I don't see one character as superior to the other in acceleration. And here's the thing about being able to move and react at time travel speeds: both characters have demonstrated they can move and react while time is frozen. That means...they can mentally process and, therefore, react at those speeds. And their sub-time travel speeds have indicated this. Honestly, to say one is superior to the other in straight line speed or reaction time...I just don't see it. Everything I have read indicates they are the same.
@malevolent1: I think that's because you like Surfer more. I dunno, you've outright stated Makkari and Runner are faster than Surfer and they've never impressed me, relative to anyone.
Maybe you have a point with classic Surfer, but I dunno, he's only RARELY demonstrated reacting to a nanosecond and that's quite slow to Wally (Atleast Wally when he's going all out, I suppose. I've said before non bloodlusted Wally gets stomped). Wally pretty frequently breaks the light speed barrier without time travelling so I don't think it's perfectly applicable as a metric.
@dredeuced: Well, I do l like Surfer more. But, it is what it is. The scans say everything. See above.
What nano second reaction feats are you talking about from Surfer?
*Edit: I do like Surfer more...my all time favorite. I'd like to think I can be objective about discussing his feats. And in the end, I have to go by what the scans/feats show me.
@dredeuced: Well, I do l like Surfer more. But, it is what it is. The scans say everything. See above.
What nano second reaction feats are you talking about from Surfer?
*Edit: I do like Surfer more...my all time favorite. I'd like to think I can be objective about discussing his feats. And in the end, I have to go by what the scans/feats show me.
The scans don't really show everything. Wally's worked in stopped time before he even pulled the Kobra-Linda-Save stunt, really. Surfer may be immune to the effects of time manipulation -- if time was actually stopped he wouldn't be fast enough to move, even infinitely fast doesn't matter at 0 time, for instance.
I don't have the nanosecond feats saved. They've been brought up in dozens of surfer threads though. Guess I could go search for them but the search function got screwed up in the transfer of the forum, apparently, so eh.
He reacts over a trillion times faster than it's physically possible for anything irl to move and has a unique power that instantly defeats anything; now you know why nu52 had to happen. Jmo but Flash being able to physically beat down powerhouses like Superman with zero effort is just dumb.
Justice leaque, lex luthor wore an armour, which he used to go toe to toe with the entire justice leaque, the flash ran around d world, building up momentum and hitting luthor thrice, he kicked his butt, flash may very well be d strongest of the justice leaque after john aka m.m.
The flash doesnt luk lik much, bt datz because he is usually never serious
A little known character called Maya Schrodinger. She can copy the powers of any character from fiction she reads so its just a case of picking up a bit of reading material with a guy like Darkseid in it. I'll not say she'd be able to copy the power of omnipotents as that is no limits to the extreme but you don't have to be omnipotent to beat Flash.
War Machine if he is using the Time-Freezer feature that I created. This way, time is frozen, so he can simply hunt down Flash and murder him with his nuke-laser minigun feature that I also created
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