Who will stop Zoom first?

@Silver2467: And who said I had any interest in actually debating how comic book science works in this case? I gave an off hand example about what he could do to a supposed super-speedster if anyone brought up the 'he moves too fast for it to work' argument.

Also this is just nidpicking, dont expect me to start debating something that noone in this world has the feintst clue about.

@Silver2467: And who said I had any interest in actually debating how comic book science works in this case? I gave an off hand example about what he could do to a supposed super-speedster if anyone brought up the 'he moves too fast for it to work' argument.

Also this is just nidpicking, dont expect me to start debating something that noone in this world has the feintst clue about.

@Silver2467 said: 

What adaption will Batman make that renders the bullet useful against Zoom? How will he circumvent Zoom's tremendously greater operational/reaction/combat speed that would allow him to hit Batman first? How will he cause the bullet to move fast enough to hit Zoom when Zoom has basically unlimited speed? How will he supplement the bullet so that it causes the seizure without vibration being necessary?   Is this clearer? You need to show examples of Batman either demonstrating prep for these purposes or else at least showing the knowledge to suggest he could. Has Batman ever created tech that grants him infinite speed or even speed comparable to the Flash? No. Has Batman ever specially built projectiles that can move at incalculable velocities? No. Has Batman ever caused a similar seizure effect in someone without the previous vibration effect? No. So how does he just "adapt" the contingency he had prepared for Flash to Zoom? Explain.

@Silver2467 said: 

And you still avoid the question. What adaption will Batman make so that it becomes effective against Zoom? Explain the strategy and how Batman will incorporate it into the fight within the confines of his prep feats so that victory for him becomes feasible. 

Based on the prep showings Batman has accomplished in the past, the knowledge he has been shown to have, and his resources, what will his strategy be? Nowhere have I asked you to explain the science behind his technology; I have been asking you to explain what technology specifically Batman would develop and to prove that it can be achieved based on his prep feats. You have yet to do this, and I expect you never will because you have no argument but at the same time can't concede a point.

Jezer and The Man of Yesteryear did a good job of describing a scenario under which Batman could win. We could argue the finer points of those, but they actually could be possible in the right situation. Follow their example.

Also this is just nidpicking, dont expect me to start debating something that noone in this world has the feintst clue about.

@Silver2467 said:

@Jezer said:

Either way, let me take the torch for a sec...

For Batman to defeat Zoom, he would have to design some sort of batsuit or trap (like a mannequin that looks like him, wearing the suit) that can withstand a punch from Zoom, and then immobilize him on contact - despite the time differencial between Zoom's timeline and the real world's. Considering that Zoom can move through transfer of energy(you press down on the ground, energy is transfered, it presses back on you to allow you to move), I'm gonna guess that atoms and such still move at regular speed.

Considering that Zoom can move, the ground still retains it's physical structural property. Therefore, I would guess certain physical properties still exist even in Zoom's timeline.

Batman would have to design something with all these factors in mind, a trap based in atoms and physical properties(For Cosmic Spiderman, I proposed trap webbing since that physical property theoretically may still exist in Zoom's world) He would have to be either protected from Zoom or luring Zoom into a trap that looks enough like him......What he would design? I don't know. Can he design it? I don't know. I'd speculate more, but I think I'm gonna go play basketball...maybe later.

This is more feasible. As for how this could work, Batman may have access to promethium for this fight, as he is familiar with the substance. In the Obsidian Age arc, Green Arrow or Nightwing or Firestorm (I forget specifically who it was) said that not even Superman could break through promethium. This is only a statement, and I have never seen it verified by showings. But it seems believable enough. If Batman constructed a duplicate of himself out of promethium, your strategy could be carried out. Now, it is possible that Zoom could break promethium as he can hit harder than Superman, but how many blows exactly it would take, I have no idea. If Batman attached a timed detonation, electrical discharge, sedative, or some other trap in the dummy that is activated when Zoom hits it, that could be a means of incapacitating him. I think the electricity would have the most probable success rate; Zoom could probably escape an explosion or gas release as they would move in slow motion or stand still altogether to him. Although Batman could plant poison tipped barbs on the suit to inject a sedative into Zoom instead of releasing a gas, in which case, that would be more effective. Now, whether or not he could accomplish this in 24 hours is another matter.

Ah, electricity. Since subatomic particles still seem to transfer in Zoom's timeline, than that would suggest the transfer of electrons still works at normal speed in his world. And electricity flows by electrons.

I didn't believe poison would work before, because I'm not sure how exactly poison works. The poison would be frozen in a sense, since it would still be running on real world time. However, Zoom's body would still work regularly, and his blood circulation would still spread the venom/poison. So, does that mean that Zoom would be affected OR is there more to how poison disables the human body, that has to do with it's physical components instead of shutting down the body by blocking certain areas? I'm not sure.

Though, if the poison method is viable, Batman doesn't actually need a suit strong enough to survive Zoom's punches. Zoom would destroy whatever physical construct is in Batman's place, while at the same time poisoning himself. With electricity, I assume there would need to be some mechanism prompting the electric shock - that may be destroyed in the assault before it can be used - unless it's specifically triggered by passing a threshold of physical force.

1. Reed has this. He already made the Zeon room (or whatever it is LOL). With a few modification, he can turn it to a worse scenario for Zoom assuming that Reed knows how Zoom's powers work.
2. Kang - this dude just has to be on the list. Control over the timeline is not something you want to mess with plus tech that makes Doom envious? That's one badass. He could probably create a temporary time bubble that where Zoom's powers would be stabilized.
3. Brainiac - same as Kang
4. Thanos - Alien tech, cunning, extreme genius, enslaving heralds... Thanos is the man.
5. Doom - when it comes to prep, Doom always comes out in the list.

Ah, electricity. Since subatomic particles still seem to transfer in Zoom's timeline, than that would suggest the transfer of electrons still works at normal speed in his world. And electricity flows by electrons.

I didn't believe poison would work before, because I'm not sure how exactly poison works. The poison would be frozen in a sense, since it would still be running on real world time. However, Zoom's body would still work regularly, and his blood circulation would still spread the venom/poison. So, does that mean that Zoom would be affected OR is there more to how poison disables the human body, that has to do with it's physical components instead of shutting down the body by blocking certain areas? I'm not sure.

Though, if the poison method is viable, Batman doesn't actually need a suit strong enough to survive Zoom's punches. Zoom would destroy whatever physical construct is in Batman's place, while at the same time poisoning himself. With electricity, I assume there would need to be some mechanism prompting the electric shock - that may be destroyed in the assault before it can be used - unless it's specifically triggered by passing a threshold of physical force.

@Silver2467 said:

@Jezer said:

Ah, electricity. Since subatomic particles still seem to transfer in Zoom's timeline, than that would suggest the transfer of electrons still works at normal speed in his world. And electricity flows by electrons.

I didn't believe poison would work before, because I'm not sure how exactly poison works. The poison would be frozen in a sense, since it would still be running on real world time. However, Zoom's body would still work regularly, and his blood circulation would still spread the venom/poison. So, does that mean that Zoom would be affected OR is there more to how poison disables the human body, that has to do with it's physical components instead of shutting down the body by blocking certain areas? I'm not sure.

Though, if the poison method is viable, Batman doesn't actually need a suit strong enough to survive Zoom's punches. Zoom would destroy whatever physical construct is in Batman's place, while at the same time poisoning himself. With electricity, I assume there would need to be some mechanism prompting the electric shock - that may be destroyed in the assault before it can be used - unless it's specifically triggered by passing a threshold of physical force.

Good points. I actually think the way you surmise how particle interaction functions in Zoom's timeline makes sense and is about as accurate as we can get without the writers outright explaining it (they never have done a very good job of elaborating on the mechanics of Zoom's powers in respects to the rest of the world). This seems like a workable strategy for Bats.

Thanks.

Though, the problem with prep battles is the ambiguity that you pointed out before. I mean, this is a workable strategy for anyone here. Even after coming up with a strategy, is it even possible to argue that one person will come up with it compared to another who wouldn't? Or that one character will think of it faster than another? Only if they've used a similar method in the past. I suspect that no one has though.

From one perspective, you could argue that since I thought up this strategy, and these characters have knowledge on Zoom and are smarter than me, they should be able as well. And still, all these characters are smarter than me so there's still no advantage to any one character.

I guess, maybe you could argue that certain characters like Dr. Doom and Thanos use strategy to operate on higher scales with magic and cosmic power ect. So, they probably wouldn't think to use something so simple and efficient, since they're generally used to thinking more big and convoluted. On the other hand, this is more Batman's style of strategy and planning since as a regular human he's used to thinking small scale traps and strategy....But I'm guessing the same reasoning applies to other small-scale characters in this battle. I don't know how we're supposed to logically judge this battle. *shrug*

@Illuminatus said:

Doom steals his powers and kills Reed.

Lol clever. I think Reed would do it first.

@Silver2467: When you can figure out how time travel functions, make sure to patent it, gonna be worth a lot of dosh.

@Silver2467: When you can figure out how time travel functions, make sure to patent it, gonna be worth a lot of dosh.

It's amusing how you willfully disregard what this discussion is about, but as for how Batman could handle a speedster of Zoom's power, the example you gave is incomparable to him and therefore not a valid argument for proving he could handle it.

@Silver2467 said: 

@Silver2467 said: 

What adaption will Batman make that renders the bullet useful against Zoom? How will he circumvent Zoom's tremendously greater operational/reaction/combat speed that would allow him to hit Batman first? How will he cause the bullet to move fast enough to hit Zoom when Zoom has basically unlimited speed? How will he supplement the bullet so that it causes the seizure without vibration being necessary?   Is this clearer? You need to show examples of Batman either demonstrating prep for these purposes or else at least showing the knowledge to suggest he could. Has Batman ever created tech that grants him infinite speed or even speed comparable to the Flash? No. Has Batman ever specially built projectiles that can move at incalculable velocities? No. Has Batman ever caused a similar seizure effect in someone without the previous vibration effect? No. So how does he just "adapt" the contingency he had prepared for Flash to Zoom? Explain.

@Silver2467 said: 

And you still avoid the question. What adaption will Batman make so that it becomes effective against Zoom? Explain the strategy and how Batman will incorporate it into the fight within the confines of his prep feats so that victory for him becomes feasible. 

Based on the prep showings Batman has accomplished in the past, the knowledge he has been shown to have, and his resources, what will his strategy be? Nowhere have I asked you to explain the science behind his technology; I have been asking you to explain what technology specifically Batman would develop and to prove that it can be achieved based on his prep feats. You have yet to do this, and I expect you never will because you have no argument but at the same time can't concede a point.

Pay attention to the above. This was never a discussion about how fictional science works. This is a discussion about whether Batman has demonstrated the efficiency with prep to suggest he could handle Zoom. So far, your case is lacking in suggesting he could. I told you how you could prove it, as shown in the quotes above. I also directed you to examples of people reasonably arguing prep:  

@Silver2467 said:

Jezer and The Man of Yesteryear did a good job of describing a scenario under which Batman could win. We could argue the finer points of those, but they actually could be possible in the right situation. Follow their example.

But since you seem to have a hard time making an argument, you continue to ignore this. 

@Silver2467: Finally

@Outside_85 said:

1. Thanos (gauntlet)

2. Doom (magic)

3. Richards (nth level tech)

4. Cho (near nth level tech and clever-clever deployment)

5. Batman (re-purposes the Flash counter from Tower of Babel, adapts it for Zoom and works out a delivery system)