Who's the most powerful non cosmic being in DC and Marvel?

So this is a fight between all beings who are not Omnipotent have the power cosmic or other Instakill powers. I will allow high tiered reality warpers such as Franklin Richards but nothing above that level. So who comes out on top? Also this is everybody's most powerful incarnations that aren't cosmic entities ( I.E. GG Superman, Cosmic Armor Superman ) people like WBH also people like Thor have all powers that they've ever shown on panel. Although nobody is allowed to BFR. Also feats such as Superman sneezing a solar system will be disregarded. Also theories such as Warrior Madness Thor being 1,000 time more powerful will be disregarded. He MIGHT be 1,000 times stronger but not 1,000 times more powerful. Begin!

I think Goku wins personally. ;)

I'm pretty sure Goku isn't from Marvel or DC.

The answer, as always, is The Flash.

Nope reasons. How could Flash take out every single Marvel and DC character who's not cosmic before they respond? This isn't a fight one by one it's a mass orgy of super powered beings fighting it to the death.

So it is a fight, then?

Flash is the most powerful, he has the most damage output coupled with one of the largest ranges of practical powers.

Dude I'm not saying Flash wouldn't win but can you explain why? There are a mass of telepaths and reality warpers on small scales here especially people with regenerative abilities. Who's to say a telepath doesn't get him from far away?

Actually, I'm thinking it's Hunter Zolomon who would be the most danger non-cosmic.

EDIT: Nevermind, Zoom is cosmic because of the "Cosmic Treadmill," as time control is a cosmic ability.

@beezlebub: I'm not saying Flash would win either, there are plenty of people who can beat him. Like Zoom, but he doesn't have Flash's damage output or his powers like speed steal, speed force dump etc. So I wouldn't consider him more powerful.

And Flash can become immune to telepathy.

All out brawl? Too many variables.

Oh snap! Really? Cool. But what about mid tear reality warpers such as Franklin Richards? Granted no BFR but he should be able to come up with something.

I assume Darkseid or Thanos are called cosmic entities?

I wouldn't consider Darkseid one. Thanos probably shouldn't be allowed though.

That doesn't make sense, they're basically the same person.

Allowing Darkseid is a mistake if you think he's weak

I'm letting Darkseid and Thanos in on the conditions set above. No BFR or instakills.

Anyways nobodies given it to Hulk yet? XD

Ahahahahah...

Ahahahahahhahahhahhaha....

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAA

Franklin Richards without much of a problem.

I'd consider Franklin cosmic, personally.

Yeah. He should be. Maybe it's better for the OP to take him out of this fight.

Yeah, unless it is kid Franklin considering he doesn't have full access to his full power.

I think Doomsday could take this honestly. Now I know you will all start laughing and saying good one but think about it. The only way that DD can be permanently put down or killed is through Entropy stuck in an Alternate dimension or having his particles erased he should be fine in this battle. Since no cosmic beings are allowed he can't be erased from existence and no BFR so he can adapt. And I just realized your right Allesandro I remember a scan of Franklin creating a universe in the palm of his hands or something so that rules him out.

You have a point. I guess its okay then.

Really? you going to say Flash when Franklin Richards is allowed? Comicvine literally out of control about Flash who is his next enemy Spectre or Living Tribunal?

No I took him out of the fight like suggested.

@beezlebub: Yeah but he chosed Flash before Franklin was removed so i just wondered why

Because he is an avid fanboy. Also I would like to let everybody know I was joking when I said Goku.

I swear, either Flash needs to powered WAY down or show he has limitations. Flash should, at full power, give Darkseid a bruised lip.

Seriously.

He already has, it's called the New 52.

You mean Jobberseid? XD

I did say the most powerful versions of every hero that were non cosmic beings or universal threats/galaxy busters. Also why are there so many Jobberseid fanboys?

Oh yeah, I love his current comic. When I last read it , He was still very powerful (as he should be) but he wasn't some god. I haven't read the last 4 issues because I haven't had time. He is still the same? I hope so.

I am just scared he will get some Wally powers like speed steal or IMP (those were Wally right? sorry).

@aquaman01: Anyone connected to the speed force can theoretically learn to steal speed. and anyone who can move at the speed of light can perform an IMP.

Hey, New 52 version is actually awesome! While I am sad he isn't being shown more as a guy who is behind the scene and fights when needed (or just mad lol), it is showing how powerful he is. I hope we see Darkseid again soon.

IMP is awesome! Makes absolutely no sense but still awesome.

Ah okay, so was Wally just the first one to use it? I just hear Wally being known to use them. I hope they don't bring those two powers up. Is IMP actually scientific, like, if even Superman could go speed of light he can perform IMP?

How does it make no sense?

My problem isn't that it is awesome (it is!), but when people say he could beat Darkseid or even Superman because of that...then I think DC is giving Flash WAY too much power. Maybe say that he can't go IMP because of the speed force? of some crap, it IS comics.

Well I am the all powerful OC so let's add that no IMP by Superman or Flash.

I think Darwin should be mentioned, his adapting to these conditions would make him kind of unbeatable.

Yes and yes. Although in real life a fist travelling the speed of light would hit a lot, lot harder.

@beezlebub @aquaman01: you guys are new to the vine aren't you? Welcome!

Ah okay. Then yeah, I would like DC to make a stupid excuse so Flash can't do that :) But that is just me of course. Maybe he can do that, but he loses most of his energy?

Well I'm kind of new. Thanks. No IMP's!

Yep! Just joined 15 days ago :) I usually read the battles sections from time to time, but I had barely read any comics so I didn't want to make 100 spite threads!

I only made stuff about what I know. Like Star Wars and LOTR.

annnnnnd in one picosecond they all drop dead from missing brains

phasing OP

Not sure about Marvel but in DC:

Silver Age Superman
H/P Doomsday
Despero
Pre Crisis Darkseid

These four alone can eliminate the majority of DC and Marvel by themselves.

Thanos end of discussion