#1 Edited by WillPayton (9831 posts) - - Show Bio

In another thread people are speculating about who the most powerful member of the Justice League is, but that's not going to get anywhere because they dont even have a definition of what "powerful" means.

Lets settle this!

Contenders: Wally West, Hal Jordan, J'onn J'onzz, Clark Kent

Rules: Lets say Pre-52 for everyone, so that we have plenty of feats and all that. Bloodlusted and no-morals, because we care about raw power only. Everyone has basic knowledge about the others including their starting positions, in case of battles beyond line of sight.

Victory Conditions: The winner is the one who wins the most battles. Please state who you think wins each, and then give a total along with the overall winner. The overall winner is the most powerful!

Battles:

Battle 1: They all start on Earth, all of them spread out from each other on the surface. Win by KO or death and as quickly as possible. They have to stay within 100 feet of the surface, no BFR.

Battle 2: Each starts on a different planet within the galaxy. The planets are on solar systems of random types (yellow sun, red sun, dwarf stars, giant, super-giants, etc) and spaced out 10 light-years from each other. Win by KO or death and as quickly as possible.

Battle 3: Who can destroy a planet the size/composition of the Earth fastest?

Battle 4: Who can survive the most powerful physical attack?

Battle 5: Who can survive the most powerful energy attack?

Battle 6: Who can survive the most powerful TP attack?

Battle 7: Knowledge is power. Who has the most knowledge? This includes knowledge of advanced technology, science, the arts, history, ... everything!

.

So, who wins each battle? The one who wins the most is the Most Powerful Leaguer!

#2 Edited by Dratini1331 (7040 posts) - - Show Bio

Battle 1: Bloodlusted then Supes blows the planet up and mops up whatever is left in the aftermath.

Battle 2: I'd say Supes again. Also, can flash even compete in this?

Battle 3: likely Flash, since he is technically "faster" and can use IMP.

Battle 4: Supes

Battle 5: Still Supes unless the attack is magic if I'm not mistaken.

Battle 6: MMH

Battle 7: I have no clue, probably between MMH and Supes though.

Aren't some of these slanted in certain character's favors? ...

#3 Posted by XImpossibruX (5267 posts) - - Show Bio

Battle 1: Flash or Martian Manhunter

Battle 2: Superman dips in the sun while the rest transverse the galaxy. Superman would win this.

Battle 3: Superman Infinite Mass Punch from space would do the job the fastest.

Battle 4: Superman, tanked planets colliding on him.

Battle 5: Superman withstood a supernova, he wins.

Battle 6: Martian Manhunter

Battle 7: Superman, or GL with information from the ring.

It just shows how the writers have to make Superman the strongest by default.

#4 Edited by WillPayton (9831 posts) - - Show Bio

Aren't some of these slanted in certain character's favors? ...

I tried to take any bias out of this by creating the battles the way I did. But I also wanted to keep it within reason. I could have made a battle where they all start 1,000 galaxies away from each other, but... that's too far outside the scope of most comics.

Can you be more specific?

#5 Posted by WillPayton (9831 posts) - - Show Bio

Battle 1: Bloodlusted or in character? Bloodlusted then Supes blows the planet up, in character I say Flash.

Bloodlusted, it's in the rules.

Battle 2: Superman dips in the sun while the rest transverse the galaxy. Superman would win this.

Sun-dipping is against the rules because they have to win as quickly as possible. The point here is to determine who's the most powerful, not to determine who can make themselves the most powerful eventually. Also, they have to fight, not avoid the fight.

#6 Edited by Dratini1331 (7040 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton: Well, I just feel like the TP battle is slanted in favor of the guy with TP. Similarly, while the Flash could beat any individual in a fight, they could all just as easily fight him from afar or destroy the planet, and he gets screwed.

For the battles about durability, hasn't superman always been the most durable? Things like that though.

#7 Edited by DeathSamurai (537 posts) - - Show Bio

Aquamn FTW

#8 Posted by Dratini1331 (7040 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton: Cool, I'll change mine, could you bold the bloodlusted part to make sure people see it? Or am I the only one that misses things like that?

#9 Edited by DeathSamurai (537 posts) - - Show Bio

Aquaman FTW

#10 Posted by WillPayton (9831 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton: Well, I just feel like the TP battle is slanted in favor of the guy with TP. Similarly, while the Flash could beat any individual in a fight, they could all just as easily fight him from afar or destroy the planet, and he gets screwed.

For the battles about durability, hasn't superman always been the most durable? Things like that though.

Flash has shown to be resistant to TP. But in any case, TP is very common in comics, so being able to take such attacks shows that they are powerful. Same for durability. You cant be that powerful if a bullet will kill you.

But I might clarify Battle 1.

#11 Posted by pooty (11785 posts) - - Show Bio

Round 1. MM wins this. If they are spread out on different continents(for example) flash can't find all of them before they take flight. Once they take flight, the flyers have the advantage. MM has the biggest advantage because of TP and intangible

ROund 2: MM wins again for the same reasons stated in round 1

3) Supes or Green Lantern. Might give it to supes. Supes Wins

4) Supes

5) Supes

6) MM

7) I have seen flash reading books in seconds

MM is the most powerful overall. Flash only wins IF he knows where the people are and can get the first attack. Flash can't fly and needs to breath and can tire. Because of MM's intangible/TP, Invisibility, shapeshifting he is the MOST POWERFUL!

#12 Edited by WillPayton (9831 posts) - - Show Bio

Here's what I'm currently thinking:

1. MMH/Flash: Flash because of speed, but not if MMH becomes intangible before he gets there.

2. MMH: Just generally more able to win this. Flash is pretty worthless here.

3. GL: Can destroy it from afar with constructs and blasts, while Superman would have to ram it and probably KO himself.

4. Superman/MMH/Flash: Intangibility FTW, for all of them.

5. MMH/GL: Intangibility for MMH, supernova-tanking shields for GL... too close to call.

6. Flash: Flash can make himself immune to TP by vibrating fast enough.

7. Superman: Super-intellect and all that.

Totals:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Flash: 3

GL: 2

MMH: 4

Superman: 2

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Winner: Martian Manhunter

#13 Edited by BMEZY (1206 posts) - - Show Bio

Battle 1: Bloodlusted then Supes blows the planet up and mops up whatever is left in the aftermath.

Battle 2: I'd say Supes again. Also, can flash even compete in this?

Battle 3: likely Flash, since he is technically "faster" and can use IMP.

Battle 4: Supes

Battle 5: Still Supes unless the attack is magic if I'm not mistaken.

Battle 6: MMH

Battle 7: I have no clue, probably between MMH and Supes though.

Aren't some of these slanted in certain character's favors? ...

Superman only wins round 1 if Flash forgets that they're all statues within the first femtosecond that the match begins

#14 Posted by beautifulrevery (1521 posts) - - Show Bio

1. Flash

2. Martian Manhunter

3. Either Superman or GL

4. Superman has got this

5. GL

6. Flash/Martian Manhunter

7. Green Lantern

#15 Posted by NeonPheonix (650 posts) - - Show Bio

Battle 1 : Supes

Battle 2 :Depends on the sun? Supes if blue or yellow but if not gl

Battle 3 : Gl

Battle 4 : Supes

Battle 5 :Supes

Battle 6 :MMH

Battle 7 : MMH

#16 Edited by gunmetalgrey (1275 posts) - - Show Bio

@pooty said:

7) I have seen flash reading books in seconds

It's been explained that he can only cram so much info for a short amount of time, usually just enough for him to use it for what he needs. Also, it's Barry who is usually shown to do this.

#17 Posted by Moonman78 (1726 posts) - - Show Bio

1. Superman wins a lusted MM could take out supes but he has two others to concentrate on so superman eventually.

2. Superman this battle is catered to superman,

3.superman of course, I have doubts the others could even do it.

4. Superman of course this has been shown

5.superman

6. Martian manhunter, don't know how much resistance a gl ring gives.

7.i would say the Martian

Superman is the most powerful here

#18 Posted by Dratini1331 (7040 posts) - - Show Bio

@bmezy said:

@dratini1331 said:

Battle 1: Bloodlusted then Supes blows the planet up and mops up whatever is left in the aftermath.

Battle 2: I'd say Supes again. Also, can flash even compete in this?

Battle 3: likely Flash, since he is technically "faster" and can use IMP.

Battle 4: Supes

Battle 5: Still Supes unless the attack is magic if I'm not mistaken.

Battle 6: MMH

Battle 7: I have no clue, probably between MMH and Supes though.

Aren't some of these slanted in certain character's favors? ...

Superman only wins round 1 if Flash forgets that they're all statues within the first femtosecond that the match begins

That's fair I suppose.

#19 Posted by BWANASIMBA (353 posts) - - Show Bio

I'll come back and vote on these characters later. I will say this though... these are not the most powerful JLA members.

Phantom Stranger was a JLA member. Old school Dr. Fate was a JLA member. Ion pre-retcon was a JLA member. Any of those three could solo these 4.

#20 Edited by Dredeuced (5857 posts) - - Show Bio

Battle 1: They all start on Earth, all of them spread out from each other on the surface. Win by KO or death and as quickly as possible. They have to stay within 100 feet of the surface, no BFR.

-Wally crushes. He can instakill all of them with phasing before they react or kill them with time travelling. He can reverse MMH's intangibility, too, so anyone putting votes into MMH for that is mistaken.

Battle 2: Each starts on a different planet within the galaxy. The planets are on solar systems of random types (yellow sun, red sun, dwarf stars, giant, super-giants, etc) and spaced out 10 light-years from each other. Win by KO or death and as quickly as possible.

- Wally wins via time travel. It is hard to be quicker than winning before the fight starts.

Battle 3: Who can destroy a planet the size/composition of the Earth fastest?

- Probably Hal Jordan. He's got the energy output to do it with his high end feats and can project more damage faster than the rest.

Battle 4: Who can survive the most powerful physical attack?

- Flash, by phasing through it. If they are forced to actually receive the damage, then Martian Manhunter due to highest durability + healing factor.

Battle 5: Who can survive the most powerful energy attack?

- Flash has phased through energy attacks more often and more consistently than J'onn. If phasing is no an option, then J'onn once again for high durability + regen.

Battle 6: Who can survive the most powerful TP attack?

- Flash. He can make himself immune to telepathy.

Battle 7: Knowledge is power. Who has the most knowledge? This includes knowledge of advanced technology, science, the arts, history, ... everything!

Hal Jordan. He has the Book of Oa built into his powerset.

Wally minimum of 3, maximum of 5. Hal Jordan 2. J'onn minimum of 0, maximum of 2. Clark 0.

#21 Posted by pooty (11785 posts) - - Show Bio

@moonman78: Superman is the most powerful here

Are you saying that Supes is the most powerful given the scenario or you think Supes could beat MM or Flash in a one on one fight?

I'll come back and vote on these characters later. I will say this though... these are not the most powerful JLA members.

I think he is talking about either current members or most consistent members. Would Phantom be more powerful then ION?

@gunmetalgrey: It's been explained that he can only cram so much info for a short amount of time

Oh, didn't know that

it's Barry who is usually shown to do this.

It was Wally the time i'm thinking of. But that was only once

#22 Posted by Dredeuced (5857 posts) - - Show Bio

@pooty: Wally has done it multiple times. He's even commented on how every Flash is a walking trivia book because they tend to retain stuff they speed read randomly. Bart is the only one who can permanently retain all knowledge he learns with speed reading, though.

#23 Posted by pooty (11785 posts) - - Show Bio
#24 Posted by Pokeysteve (8699 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm going round by round.

Flash could technically beat them all but is by no means the most powerful. J'onn or Supe obviously. J'onn beats Clark but Superman can handle villains J'onn can't. It's superhero rock, paper, scissors.

#25 Posted by TheDarkDaredevil (554 posts) - - Show Bio

So GL can do nothing ??

#26 Posted by ComicStooge (14092 posts) - - Show Bio

Round 1: Flash

Round 2: Superman

Round 3: GL or Clark

Round 4: J'onn or Clark.

Round 5: J'onn or Clark.

Round 6: J'onn, obviously.

Round 7: Hal.

#28 Edited by ComicStooge (14092 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1: I think the OP meant the most powerful out of the original, more contemporary/well known JLA members.

#29 Posted by WillPayton (9831 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1: I think the OP meant the most powerful out of the original, more contemporary/well known JLA members.

Yes, the classic lineup. These are the 4 most powerful of that bunch.

Also, everyone in DC and their father has been in the Justice League at one point or another. If not it's only because they were in the JSA.

#30 Edited by laflux (17548 posts) - - Show Bio

Just to note, Flash actually can fly people :P

#31 Edited by Saren (25136 posts) - - Show Bio

......Simon Baz has done literally nothing to suggest he would beat any of the four above any percentage of the time.

Moderator
#32 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio

1: Flash

2:I'm going with Hal, since it allows him to prepare.

3:Hal, I don't see other doing it.

4:Superman, since he was the only one who survived planets collision.

5:Superman, since he survvied part of supernova.

6:Flash or Martian.

7:Martian.

Flash:1/2

Hal:2

Superman:2

Maritan:1/2

Lol. But Hal could take it, if I will see some better energy-durability for him, than what I've seen to this moment.

#33 Posted by laflux (17548 posts) - - Show Bio

......Simon Baz has done literally nothing to suggest he would beat any of the four above any percentage of the time.

So has Mr Miracle, I think beatboks was just trying to include all the contestants I guess

#34 Posted by logy5000 (6167 posts) - - Show Bio

Flash

Green Lantern (Fastest in space)

Superman

Superman

Superman

Green Lantern/Superman

#35 Posted by Killemall (18607 posts) - - Show Bio

I call hax, you cant have a thread asking who is the most powerful JLA without including Batman.

Truth is Batman wins every round :)

Reason: coz he's the goddam batman :p

#36 Posted by CharlieJade (415 posts) - - Show Bio

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_small/0/4/9224-2437-10187-1-phantom-stranger-th.jpg

#37 Posted by drgnx (3566 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton:

Why even have condition 6? when only one person has it? If you started a battle thread with only that condition, the thread would have been locked...

#38 Edited by beatboks1 (7536 posts) - - Show Bio

......Simon Baz has done literally nothing to suggest he would beat any of the four above any percentage of the time.

Based on showings no but then neither has Phantom Stranger of Jesse Quick. But based on potential having the combined power of Hal and Sinestro should go quite a way. Just like the power we KNOW PS had (even if he wasn't allowed to use it). Likewise Jessie obviously doesn't have the speed to beat Flash but then he doesn't have Super strength, super agility or enhanced stamina. Plus if they gave her her mothers OTHER powers ( projecting sonic Wave powers that casually through 30 to 50 tonners around like Baron Blitzcreig and the sons of Dawn ) she would be VERY difficult to deal with.

Certainly none of the four in the OP could beat Kent Nelson, Obsidian or Matthew Tyler on any of the criteria.

#39 Posted by Saren (25136 posts) - - Show Bio

@citizenbane said:

......Simon Baz has done literally nothing to suggest he would beat any of the four above any percentage of the time.

Based on showings no but then neither has Phantom Stranger of Jesse Quick. But based on potential having the combined power of Hal and Sinestro should go quite a way. Just like the power we KNOW PS had (even if he wasn't allowed to use it). Likewise Jessie obviously doesn't have the speed to beat Flash but then he doesn't have Super strength, super agility or enhanced stamina. Plus if they gave her her mothers OTHER powers ( projecting sonic Wave powers that casually through 30 to 50 tonners around like Baron Blitzcreig and the sons of Dawn ) she would be VERY difficult to deal with.

Certainly none of the four in the OP could beat Kent Nelson, Obsidian or Matthew Tyler on any of the criteria.

Phantom Stranger at least has implied/inferred power (pre-Flashpoint), and post-Flashpoint he has actual power that he can use freely (time manipulation, transmutation, stalemating Spectre). Jesse doesn't even have implied power. She's not fast enough to keep up with Flash and she doesn't have anywhere near his striking power. Potential is nice and all, but it's pretty speculative.

On any of the criteria? Obviously they could. Neither Obsidian nor Hourman 1M have any telepathy-blocking feats on par with Martian Manhunter blocking universal/multiversal beings like Jim Corrigan's Spectre and Doctor Destiny from controlling his mind or the minds of the League. Kent Nelson might, but I don't know a whole lot about him. Obsidian and Hourman 1M additionally might skate past the surviving physical/energy attack rounds based on their ability to reform from damage sustained, but neither of them are as durable as Superman. Tyler has been shattered repeatedly by attacks Clark would shrug off, he just stitches himself back together so it's not a problem.

Simon doesn't have the combined power of Hal and Sinestro anymore, and when did he ever have it to begin with? The ring Hal had at the start of the new 52 was a copy Sinestro made for him and the one he's got now is Volthoom's.

@logy5000 said:

Flash

Green Lantern (Fastest in space)

Superman

Superman

Superman

Green Lantern/Superman

Really? Superman's TP resistance is better than Martian Manhunter's?

Moderator
#40 Posted by beatboks1 (7536 posts) - - Show Bio

@citizenbane: I'd dispute that about TP for Obsidian. his abikity to get into a persons head and see their inner demons or the darkness with and use that against them is pretty well shown. I can inoy think of two instances when he's succumbed to TP and both were against Ultra. Considering Ultra could match Brainwave Snr who has plenty of TP feats that at least "border" being superior to MMH I'd give him a pass on that. Also over the years he has increased his ability to handle those dark thinks he sees and that IMO should allow him resistence close tk MMH.

As for Kent. Classic Fate even withiut any talismans was physically impervious and had Super strength and sonic speed due to Nabu's altering his make up. once he dons that helm his durability increases exponentially. he has shown TK strong enough to move a planet into it's sun with little effort. strong TP ( though one jnstance of falling to grey man and MMH saving him which I honestly took as PIS). energy manipulation and matter manipulation feats on a par with Capt Atom and Firestorm. as well as immunity to reality warping and his magic. I can't think of a single one of the conditions that he would loose on. back in All Star Squadron 27 ( IIRC) he fought classic Spectre for about 5 pages with the battle shifing this way and that until Spectre won with a BFR.

#41 Posted by dondave (38907 posts) - - Show Bio

I call hax, you cant have a thread asking who is the most powerful JLA without including Batman.

Truth is Batman wins every round :)

Reason: coz he's the goddam batman :p

#42 Posted by nickthedevil (13975 posts) - - Show Bio

Well... Since Wally West has phased through an exploding planet, and run through space...