Who is the mightiest debater tournament round 1/match 3

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HeirToTheKingdom

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#1  Edited By HeirToTheKingdom

Who is the mightiest debater tournament round 1/match 3

No Caption Provided

Rules:

Information

  • Standard Gear unless it was specifically told by HeirToTheKingdom otherwise
  • Every man for themselves
  • Win is by KO, or incap or death or BFR
  • BFR is only allowed as a last ditch option
  • No morals
  • No preparation
  • No inhabitants are near
  • Basic knowledge on each other
  • Please refrain from posting your opinion on the match until it's done as this is a tournament match
  • Asked to be tagged for voting, or message for me to know to do so

Posting Order:

  1. Participant/Team 1: Opening Post/Statements
  2. Participant/Team 2: Opening Post/Statements
  3. Participant/Team 3: Opening Post/Statements
  4. Participant/Team 4: Opening Post/Statements
  5. Participant/Team 1: Rebuttal #1
  6. Participant/Team 2: Rebuttal #1
  7. Participant/Team 3: Rebuttal #1
  8. Participant/Team 4: Rebuttal #1
  9. Participant/Team 1: Rebuttal #2
  10. Participant/Team 2: Rebuttal #2
  11. Participant/Team 3: Rebuttal #2
  12. Participant/Team 4: Rebuttal #2
  13. Participant/Team 1: Rebuttal #3
  14. Participant/Team 2: Rebuttal #3
  15. Participant/Team 3: Rebuttal #3
  16. Participant/Team 4: Rebuttal #3
  17. Participant/Team 1: Summary/Conclusions
  18. Participant/Team 2: Summary/Conclusions
  19. Participant/Team 3: Summary/Conclusions
  20. Participant/Team 4: Summary/Conclusions

Location:

fight takes place here

No Caption Provided

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emperorthanos-

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#2 emperorthanos-  Moderator
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HeirToTheKingdom

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The_Legendary_SuperSaiyan_Hulk

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Heheh, time for Genryusai to go in~

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HeirToTheKingdom

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The_Legendary_SuperSaiyan_Hulk

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@heirtothekingdom: Well, considering my strategy for this: You guys might as well go ahead lol

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HeirToTheKingdom

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The_Legendary_SuperSaiyan_Hulk

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@emperorthanos: @heirtothekingdom:@tryingtochill Alright, posting my intro for the 2nd time... curse you Comicvine! You post hungry beast!

Captain Genryusai Yamamoto:

"Why, precisely, do you think I have served as Captain-Commander of the Gotei 13 for a thousand years? Because in all those thousand years, no Shinigami was born to rival me in strength."

Background Information:

Captain Yamamoto is the Head Captain of the Gotei 13. The Gotei 13 is a society of shinigami, beings who guide/guard spirits to the other side as well as fight off creatures known as Hollows. He has over a thousand years of combat experience under his belt as well as a zanpakuto(a spiritual weapon with special abilities) that makes him as deadly as he is skilled.

Basic Game Plan:

First, I'd like to get something out of the way. Shinigami can not be seen by beings who are not spiritually aware. In the scans below you will see that Rukia(a shinigami) is surprised when Ichigo(a spiritually aware person) can see her:

Now, I may not be overly familiar with my opponent's choices, but I don't recall any of them having showings of having any form of spiritual awareness. That being said, this will make Yamamoto effectively invisible to his combatants.

This of course leads to my game plan; Yamamoto will observe the fight from the sky, letting you youngsters duke it out. When everything is said and done, he will come in and deliver the final blow to the battle weary survivor. After all, a battle is more than just who has the strongest attack, right?

Now, since this is just an intro, I don't plan on going into abilities and feats. I will however pull them up when needed throughout the fight, so don't you worry your pretty, little heads~ :D

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Just_Banter

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Ahh, so that's the card that's being pulled. I see what you're doing. Tag pls.

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HeirToTheKingdom

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OP is edited.

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HeirToTheKingdom

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those_eyes

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JUST LOL! ssjhulk taking the easy way out.

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The_Legendary_SuperSaiyan_Hulk

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@heirtothekingdom: Heheh, don't worry about my lack of scan-dumping, I hopefully thought this through enough to pull it off. If I make it past round 1 with Yamamoto I'll consider that a win in itself.

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emperorthanos-

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#14 emperorthanos-  Moderator
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HeirToTheKingdom

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@heirtothekingdom: Heheh, don't worry about my lack of scan-dumping, I hopefully thought this through enough to pull it off. If I make it past round 1 with Yamamoto I'll consider that a win in itself.

Haha, was only joking, but let's see if you can make it that far :p

@heirtothekingdom: OK sure but I will only be able to get my post up by tomorrow.

Sounds good.

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#16  Edited By emperorthanos-  Moderator

H'el

Powers and abilities

Because he has kryptonian DNA, he has all the regulars powers a kyrptonian would have under a yellow sun.

  • Super-Strength - H'el has displayed strength enough to engage both Superboy and Superman in a physical fight.
  • Invulnerability - H'El is nigh-invulnerable to extreme forces.
  • Super Stamina - H'El is able to maintain continuous strenuous physical action for an indefinite period of time.
  • Flight - H'el can fly easily without any visible effort
  • Invulnerability - He has shown little to no damage after attacks from other super-powered beings.
  • Super-Hearing - He is able to hear from great distances.
  • Super Speed - He has displayed speed much faster than Superman
  • Super Breath - H'El is able to create hurricane force winds by exhaling air from his lungs. He can chill the air as it leaves his lungs to freeze targets
  • Heat Vision - H'El can, as a conscious act, fire beams of intense heat at a target by looking at it. He can vary the heat and area affecte
  • Intellect - His intellect is vast enough to allow him to be the top student of Jor-El, one of Krypton's best scientists. Also calculated and created his own time travel machine.

Unique powers- H'el has also displayed power that are uncommon amongst Kyroptonians.

  • Teleportation - He has shown the ability to appear and disappear at will. H'el is able to teleport great distances and is also able to teleport other beings as well. He was capable of teleporting himself and Supergirl from the bottom of the ocean to the sun's surface
  • Telekinesis - He has shown the ability to move objects with his mind, create force fields, and has displayed fine control of his telekinesis allowing him to affect things on a molecular level.
  • Telepathy - H'el has displayed several abilities that fall under the scope of telepathy. He gave Supergirl the ability to speak English and gave her the illusion that he was Superman.
  • Matter Manipulation - H'el was able to shrink Supergirl down to send her to the bottled city of Kandor, but the extent of this ability is unknown
  • Astral Projection - H'el has shown the ability to project himself to others when he himself is not physically able to accompany them.
  • Time travel - Hel is able to travel to the past at will. He is able to see ones past and future even when the person is destroyed

Strength

He is able to easily knock away Superboy and Superman

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He was able to make Superman bleed with a single punch. He was also too fast for superman to react.

Strong enough to send superman straight into space with a single strike.

Speed and Teleportation

Moved so fast that Superman could not even see him move, though it is possible that He was teleporting. But as seen in the other picture he was able to move so fast that Superman could not react to his punch.

Was able to Teleport Kara-El and him from her sanctuary to the sun and then back to earth form the sun without her even realizing.

Teleported Supermans fortress away

Telepathy and Telekinesis

Telepathically shows Kara Krypton and then shows it to her destroyed.

Made Kara think he was superman.

Counters Superboys telekinesis with his own

Use telekinesis to pick apart Superboy atom by atom

Telekenetically binds superman, Superboy and wonder woman at the same time

Durability

Kara bull rushes and he doesn't even have scratch

Takes a hit from superman who comes charging down from orbit, with the force of punch being felt across the world to it core and to the JT watch tower.

Senses

X-ray vision

Can sense the presence of anyone withing a 100 mile radius

Can hide his presence from people. (also you can see that he the ability to shoot some kind of energy blasts from his arms)

can make astryal projections of himself.

Initial thoughts

So H'el has morals of meaning he won't hold back. Something he has done when fighting Superman at times because he doesn't want to kill him.

If he is in danger he always use BFR to take someone out a a last resort.

I'm not to familiar with all of my opponents to come up with a strong strategy but here is what I have

Yamamoto is the weakest one here but has the advantage of not being seen. But I do think that with H'el ability to sense him as he does have basic knowledge and will be able to find him as long as he is withing the 1000 mile radius. Once he is able to sense him, he should be able to take out telekenetically.

Against Graviton, H'el is physically superior. H'el has no morals on so he will go straight to speed blitzing Graviton like he did against Superboy. His super strength should allow to overpower Graviton. He was able to do significant damage to superman and superboy with his strength and both should be physically superior to Gravitron. So H'el will have no trouble getting the drop on him with speed and taking him out.

Ultron is probably the strongest character here but H'el can still take him. H'el is able to use his telekinesis to pick apart atoms. H'el is also very smart and with basic knowledge on Ultron, he will probably begin dismantling Ultrons bodies apart using his telekinesis. He also has some degree of matter manipulation and can shrink Ultron and basically rendering him useless.

@heirtothekingdom@tryingtochill@the_legendary_supersaiyan_hulk

Opener finished

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TryingToChill

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@heirtothekingdom: TK attacks are allowed as long as they don't completely overtake my opponent's consciousness right?

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HeirToTheKingdom

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#18  Edited By HeirToTheKingdom

@tryingtochill: Yes, no shutting anyone down, or simply controlling them.

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#22  Edited By TryingToChill

@the_legendary_supersaiyan_hulk: @heirtothekingdom@emperorthanos

Ultron

To imagine how strong Ultron is, I want you to take a number and put it in your head. Then, multiply it by two. Then divide it be three. Factorise it as small as possible. Add those factors together. Multiply it by itself. Build an elephant out of the digits. Dismantle those digits back to how they were. Now throw away all those numbers and think of a really powerful thing. That's how strong Ultron is.

In this fight, I am allowed 11 Ultron bodies, all of which are able to independently engage in combat akin to his drones in Age of Ultron, albeit much more powerful.

All of them must be destroyed in order for my opponents to ascertain complete victory due to Ultron's ability to freely transfer his mind into other technology. Ultron is able to reconstruct his consciousness even after his body has been destroyed before he may transfer his consciousness.

9x Ultron-19

This version of Ultron is a tad more feminine then its predecessors. It does not contain adamantium but was restructures from Iron Man's Extremis armour.

It man- uh -robothandled the Avengers, who then consisted of powerhouses like Ares, Wonder Man, Carol Danvers, and The Sentry. He was only defeated after Hank Pym administered a special pym-particle into his heart.

Before the virus is administered, Sentry's punches were unable to even affect him.

It can shoot energy beams strong enough to melt the Mole Man's army, who were giving the Avengers a good fight.

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It demonstrates a force field strong enough to break Ares's adamantium axe.

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It also holds control over a bunch of satellites which he can use to control the weather and pinpoint lightning strikes onto his enemies. The lightning is strong enough to damage Ares and Sentry.

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1x Giant Ultron-20

This version of Ultron is best known for the conquering of the Kree Empire. Despite its size, this Ultron is capable of flight as its body was made of Kree Sentries.

This Ultron's responsibility is to cause confusion and chaos. Though it will not be allowed to overtake other life forms in this tourney, the phalanx allows this Ultron to detect and enter the minds of others.

Even with the Worldmind, Nova had to divert 20% of the Nova Force to ward off mental attacks from the phalanx. This is especially impressive because of Nova Prime's extremely high TK resistance. Ultron's opponents will probably be affected a lot more than this. This telepathic attack is unavoidable as simply being in the vicinity of phalanx selects inititates the transfer.

Mental attacks aren't the only trick up his sleeve though. He's strong enough to engage in battle with both Adam Warlock and Quasar while remaining relatively unaffected.

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As with most other versions of Ultron, this model possesses the encephalo beam.

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1x Ultron-8

This is a more classic Ultron with an adamantium casing.

Here he shows the power of his repulsors and demonstrates the power of his encephalo beam, which in a single hit sends its recipients into a death-like coma no matter how durable they are, and is even able to hit intangible things.

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Iron Man's repulsors at full strength fail to damage him. He knocks back Wonder Man and Thor easily.

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He swatts aside Wonder Man and Mjolnir.

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Beginning Strategy

The Ultron-20s will begin the fight by spreading the Phalanx to all other Ultrons. This will allow all Ultrons to be telepathically aware of their opponent's positions, specifically a Captain Yamamoto's. Once the phalanx has locked onto him, several other techniques may be used to keep track of him, such as infra-red vision. Ultron's opponents will also have contracted the Phalanx, but I will keep the virus unnoticeable by not activating any telepathic attacks on Graviton and H'el unless Ultron is in danger.

Once Captain Yamamoto has been located, several Ultrons will fire a great number of beam attacks at him. However, this is merely a diversionary tactic as they shall fire up the satellites, sending a hail of lightning bolts onto his position, catching Yamamoto by surprise as he has no enemies above him. As Yamamoto's attention is diverted to block attacks from both sides, Ultron will fire up the Phalalnx virus, greatly slowing his movements and weakening his strength. Simultaneously, the Ultrons will fire the Encephalo beams, incapacitating him before the fight can begin as a single hit from the beams would send him into a coma. Keep in mind that Yamamoto is not as maneuverable as the other combatants here as he is not able to actually fly but rather 'walk on air', meaning he can only move on a horizontal axis. All of this should be over in about a second.

Neither H'el nor Graviton should interfere due to shock and curiousity, but an Ultron or two will be keeping an eye on them should they choose to act on the Ultrons during this phase of the battle.

That's it for my strategy for the beginning of the battle.

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My thoughts on the arguments made so far, can't wait for my turn lol

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HeirToTheKingdom

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#24  Edited By HeirToTheKingdom

Opener

Graviton

No Caption Provided

Description:

A brilliant physicist named Franklin Hall who's life changed after an experiment. He was no longer a normal man, but a man who could control one of the fundamental forces of nature, gravity!

Basic Run Down:

Instead of giving you a basic run down of this team busting villain, let me guide you to his handbook entries. They should let you know what his capable of doing. They should also let you know where his power level ranks, and where his physical stats are.

Here is his classic handbook entry.

Then here is his after his upgrade.

That being said, are you guys ready to face a being who can manipulate a fundamental force of the universe?

Offensive & Defensive:

As you can see from his name, he's capable of manipulating gravity in multiple ways, which will help him be the most versatile on the battlefield. I don't necessarily mean that he has the most abilities, as his mostly stem from one power, but I am referring to the fact that his one power can achieve many things. He's capable using his powers for offensive means, as well as defensive, which is going to allow him to take charge in this battle when he needs to, as well as protect himself from devastating attacks. Being a genius in the field of physics, it allows him to understand his powers even more. Hector has always been great with his powers. When he had first gotten them, he was capable of single-handily beating a team of Avengers which consisted of Captain America, Beast, Iron Man, Wasp, Ant Man, Vision, Scarlet Witch, and Wonder Man.

Now one may think this isn't impressive, but if you examine the scans, you can see he did all of this effortlessly, not to mention while he had just obtained his powers. To me, that is a pretty impressive showing of power against an extremely skilled team. I'm aware this team is less powerful than all opponents here, except Yammato (sorry Hulk :p), but just remember, he was doing this when he had just obtain his power. That's real skill. His powers, and skill has only risen with time. One who's knowledge is exceptionally great with the very power he uses is going to be a tough contenc

another instance of Graviton's great power. Here Hall was capable of holding down 9 Avengers by increasing their gravity many times over. He did this by casually putting his arm up towards them. It didn't strain him in the slightest, and it's something he consistently does to his opponents. In fact he does stuff many times more grand as you will see as this debate continues.

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What makes this feat even more impressive is that Iron Man, Vision, and even Wonder Man were incapable of escaping. They all possess vast amounts of physical strength, but were all helpless to Hall who was barely trying against them. I know these three aren't nearly as strong as the fighters here, however he did this with utmost ease. He has the power to literally pin down anyone here, and this will be especially great against multiple opponents. He's great at fighting many opponents as you can see, so Ultron's number advantage will prove nothing. Also before you believe his powers are incapable of holding H'el or Ultron, they have worked perfectly fine in restraining Thor as well as hold Mjolnir.

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Granted both Ultron, and H'el are more stronger than Thor, I don't however agree that H'el is more so than Mjolnir, while Ultron can be with his specific Adamantium body. Regardless, Hall shouldn't have any problems at the very least pinning them to any surface to apply any form of damage he chooses.

Also another offensive measure Hall can, and will go for is him manipulating his surroundings. He can lift entire buildings out of the ground (as their are some in the battlefield), and hurl them straight at his opponents. He's capable of lifting large buildings with absolute ease, so this won't strain him at all. In fact he's been shown to muti-task lifting things, while fighting off entire teams, so he can do this while he's interacting with his opponents.

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Multiple buildings hurled at you will surely cause some damage, or at least stun, and allow him to set up other methods of attack. By the way if you think this is impressive, you have seen nothing yet.

Hall being able to control gravity doesn't only give you offensive capabilities,but it also gives you defensive capabilities as well. This will come in handy for blocking your various teams attack, whether they be physical, or energy based in damage.

These force-fields are durable too. Even someone as powerful as Thor found it rather difficult to get through his force-fields, and let me tell you, his striking power is more impressive than many people. I agree that H'el is more powerful, physically stronger, and possibly strikes harder than Thor, but it isn't by a whole lot (striking power wise). This fight was in the classic days when Thor was doing crazy impressive feats like shaking the planet, and pretty everything on the planet with a single blow, so you can tell the type of power Thor is packing.

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Yet for all the power Thor can muster, he had left absolutely no mark on Hall's force-fields. This will prove quite a task for the rest of you guys seeing as how while you guys are all being attack among us, Graviton will be peachy in his force-field. Physical attacks, as well as energy blasts are going to have to be of a an extremely high level to get through Hall's force-fields. The thing that sucks is that he can just throw a next one back up, which means you guys would have to exert yourself greatly yet again.

If by some case your team is able to get pass his force-fields, he has a second defense. That is his skin. Yes, his skin. Hall is capable of manipulating gravitons to make his skin far denser, and durable compared to a normal human. The Hulk was dropped out of an aircraft upon him, and he was okay after. Judging by how the Hulk fell, you can tell his drop was quite devastating.

Seeing as how it will be pretty difficult to get through his force-fields alone, I don't think he will be all too depending on his actual enhanced durability oppose to his actual force-fields. He's more than capable of taking a hit without his force-fields to be honest.

I'm trying to be as light as I can with this opener, so I can bring out all the big things later which will prove even more problematic for your team, so this will have to suffice.

Battle Info:

The battle plan Graviton will have for this battle is quite simple. He is the only one here from my knowledge who's capable of putting up defensive means, not to mention as well as offensive means. He has the perfect power-set for fighting multiple opponents at once. He can effect their gravity, and that of their surroundings in ways that they won't have answers too. There are other methods of attacks that I will get in to in my next post. His defensive abilities will allow him to take on his opponents from within a force-field, making it really hard to even harm Hall. He can simply throw them away from him with his powers so that they can't even get close.

Yammato: In my opinion, you are the least powerful in this debate, though you acknlowdge it, and play the "sit and wait strategy". This won't work, Hall may not be able to see him, but he can sense him. You see, Hall is capable of sensing disruptions in the gravemetric-field. He doesn't have to see Yammato to know he's there, he has sensed Moonstone who was trying to sneak up on him just fine. He'll sense someone is there, though he won't be capable of seeing him, and then he'll decide to increase his weight pinnin him to the floor, or simply have a building dropped on him. Depending on how durable Yammato is, he can be taken out right here.

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This also goes for H'el or Ultron if they try to go for a similar strategy.

Also I would like to add that Graviton can increase the weight of Yammato's sword so that it goes straight in to the earth, and Yammato won't be able achieve it. His strength is far below the level it would require to do so.

H'el: In my opinion the most dangerous for Graviton here because of his striking power, and speed. His powers of Superman to a much grand degree, as well as additional powers. He's going to be a problem, but Hall should be capable of dealing with. Had Hall not had his force-fields, I would think H'el would defeat him, however he does. Hall would be able to take down H'el by manipulating his gravity, and throwing everything he has to offer at him. As you will see through this debate, it's a lot.

By the way, there is no matter manipulation upon other people, only the surroundings. Just though you should know had you forgot.

Ultron: It's not so much Ultron's offensive capabilities (which is more so than the other two in my opinion), but his defenses. Ultron may be powerful, but he isn't exactly fast, so Hall should be capable of countering everything he brings to this battle. Let me start by saying Ultron's drones are pretty much useless here as Hall can crush them all under their own weight, or simply crush them into a ball of metal with a flick of his hand. It's not that difficult for someone like him to do. Anything that isn't true Adamantium is going to be wrecked by Hall, so this brings us back to our 4 free for all. If Ultron's amour isn't particularly durable, he's going to get crushed too. I don't really see much to do against Ultron except BFR, and that's a last resort. Luckily, one of my other opponents can take him out, while Hall sits back in his force-fields, or he can wait for Ultron, and himself to try everything in their arsenal, in-which he could lift the floor below Ultron, sending into space.

Also, telepathy isn't allowed to take over someones mind or shut them down, but it can be used to read, implant imagery, ect.

I think that's enough for an opener. You shall all see the might of Graviton in my next post. You can all be sure of that. That being said, openers are out of the way. Let the real debate begin!

@emperorthanos@tryingtochill@the_legendary_supersaiyan_hulk

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TryingToChill

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My thoughts on the arguments made so far, can't wait for my turn lol

That's exerting spiritual pressure, am I right? Ultron doesn't have a "spirit" though.

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#27  Edited By TryingToChill
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cosmicallyaware1

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tag me for voting in this please.

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Counters and Corrections:

H'el's presence sensing; As with all shinigami, they can conceal their own energies to remain undetected by others.

Here we see Byakuya following Ginjo, who he thought was someone trying to conceal themselves:

No Caption Provided

Here is Yamamoto, no longer keeping himself under wraps. As you can see, the moment he lets it go Nanao starts to collapse into a seizure to show the change(as they normally wouldn't have this effect at regular times):

While I may not know a lot of H'el, since universal equivalency is on, this should suffice in hiding from him.

As for Ultron:

You misunderstand Yamamoto's invisibility. His ability is not a power, nor is it a change in his chemical composition like some others from Marvel. His invisibility comes from what he is, a spirit. He can't be seen by anyone who isn't spiritually aware nor their equipment.

As for his telepathy; Yamamoto has shown capability in using a barrier-type kido to prevent Muramasa(a zanpakuto manifestation who goes into other's "inner world", think of it as their mind/soul, to take their zanpakuto's spirit and control it) to gain access to himself. Link to the video show casing Yamamoto in the barrier, with Muramasa unable to gain access: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mCoonXGnfY Around 7:30 he can be seen.

As for Graviton: He's going to be much too busy to be concerned with Yamamoto. Why? See below.

Why your characters WON'T go after Yamamoto right away:

  • First of all, he's the weakest out of the group in terms of destructive capabilities. With basic knowledge, they should already know that he isn't an inherent threat to them.
  • Second, each person has 2 other characters that they know are big threats and have to be dealt with while they're still at their full power.
  • Third; As stated above, there is not much you can do to even locate him let alone issue an attack.

Next; Yamamoto is more than capable of dodging attacks, more so since you guys will be issuing blind ones.

For example; Shunsui uses shunpo(a technique that grants accelerated movement) to try and get the drop of Yamamoto. Yamamoto dodges and then kicks him to the side:

Now, how fast is Shunsui?

Capable of dodging a vast array of cero(beams of energy) from Coyote Starrk:

Keep in mind that on top of that, Starrk(in base) was able to pop in and snatch Orihime before Ichigo or Zaraki could even attack him:

The same Ichigo who has been shown fast enough to counter over a thousand blades attacking him simultaneously:

My battle plan remains unchanged, you guys have much more to fear from each other than you do from me. Something I'm sure your characters would take into consideration. ^.^

While I may not be more powerful than you guys, I don't have to be. The only thing a Free-For-All requires is being the last man standing :)

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TryingToChill

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@the_legendary_supersaiyan_hulk: Watch out for my post but in the meantime, that ain't Nemu in the scans you gave. Nemu is Mayuri's lieutenant if I recall correctly. That girl is Shunsui's lieutenant.

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@tryingtochill: LOL, Nemu just came to mind for some reason. Yeah, Nanao lel

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hulk trollin!

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@those_eyes: Well, to be fair, it is a character from Tite Kubo lol

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#35 emperorthanos-  Moderator

@heirtothekingdom: The matter manipulation rule just means H'el isn't allowed to shrink people right? Not the telekinetically ripping people apart at an atomic level.

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@emperorthanos: Yes. Since H'el isn't using actual matter manipulation, but TK, it's a pass.

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hype

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JUST LOL! ssjhulk taking the easy way out.

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#39 emperorthanos-  Moderator

Counters

Wow this is getting ridiculous. So from what I have gathered from everyone's openers

Captain-Commander Yamamoto of the Gotei 13 is basically going to play hide and seek and avoid battle until everyone else has killed each other. Just Because he knows everyone else here is stronger. Ultron is just going to look for him and forget about H'el and Graviton because they will be too shocked to do anything. I don't understand that but fine. And Graviton will be fighting everyone.

The battle

My battle plan is this. H'el will deal with Graviton first, as with knowledge he has on him, H'el will know he is the one who can be the most difficult to deal with.

H'els advantage in the battle is his speed. His speed or teleportation will make it really difficult to tag him. He was able to move to fast for either of Superboy or superman to react, and easily got the drop on them.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

On top his speed H'el to can hide his presence completely, even from people with super sense like Superman or Supergirl

So H'el can hide his presence from others probably telepathically but it is not stated.

H'el also does have some sort of defense. Though we haven't seen him use it on himself(likely due to the fact that none was really able hurt him) H'el has shown the ability to use force fields.

Here is used force field to protect a boy.

All this together would mean it will be very difficult to tag him or hit him. And even if he does get hit, his durability will mean the attack will have to be extremely powerful.

His speed and ability to hide his presence will mean he will be able to get the drop on Graviton. I don't know how durable Graviton is but H'el's punches were strong enough to make Superman bleed. That alone should do significant damage.

H'el could also teleport right next to him and disintegrate him with his energy attacks

Here is disintegrates two Kryptonians effortlessly

H'el has multiple other ways of taking out Graviton but I would show those as the battle carries on.

Once H'el as taken out Graviton, he will focus on the remaining two.

For Ultron, H'el main way of taking out all his bodies will be through TK and his energy blasts.

Using his TK he was able to take out all the teen titans at once

He is also able to make a TK sword against superboy

He can also use his energy blasts to take out several of the Ultron robots. and on top of that he can disassemble them. He is a genius intellect and understand technology well. He can use his atomic level TK to take them out.

As for Yamamoto. If Ultron hasn't killed by then, It will be a one on one fight which H'el will win pretty easily

@heirtothekingdom@tryingtochill@the_legendary_supersaiyan_hulk Counters are up.

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T4V

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@heirtothekingdom: I thought the order was same as the opening order? Shouldn't tryingtochill have been next?

Edit: Just saw the end of your post lol. Also, I never addressed Graviton not being able to sense him O. o

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#44  Edited By HeirToTheKingdom

@the_legendary_supersaiyan_hulk: You're correct, my bad. I honestly forgot to me being exicted to respond. I guess once he's done with his post, i'll have my response up moments after. This is sure going quick.

Edit: Lol, woops.

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@tryingtochill: It's fine, I'll debate is already doing much more better than others.

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#49  Edited By TryingToChill

Counters

I will be repeating certain points in the specific rebuttals and overall summary as not everyone may wish to read the whole post. I will be using my scans in the H'el counters so I suggest you leaf through them before posting your replies.

Keep in mind that all Ultrons will be buffed by the Phalanx in this fight, increasing their strength, speed, and regeneration beyond their current levels.

H'el Counters

He also has some degree of matter manipulation and can shrink Ultron and basically rendering him useless.

That's against the rules. No matter manipulation is allowed on other characters.

Ultron is just going to look for him and forget about H'el and Graviton because they will be too shocked to do anything. I don't understand that but fine.

Just from that I can tell you weren't paying attention to my intro. I said that shock and curiousity should keep H'el and Graviton from interfering during the 1 second Ultron will take to initiate the attack on Yamamoto.

The battle

H'els advantage in the battle is his speed. His speed or teleportation will make it really difficult to tag him. He was able to move to fast for either of Superboy or superman to react, and easily got the drop on them.

Ultron-20 can teleport as well and Ultron-19 has done battle with massively FTL Sentry, so getting the drop on them might not be that easy.

On top his speed H'el to can hide his presence completely, even from people with super sense like Superman or Supergirl

So can Ultron.

No Caption Provided

So H'el can hide his presence from others probably telepathically but it is not stated.

Does he have any TP resistance feats? Because if he doesn't, the Phalanx will weaken him beyond the use of his powers in a second.

Here is used force field to protect a boy.

The force field withstands what seems like regular bullets, far below what Ultron's fields have displayed.

For Ultron, H'el main way of taking out all his bodies will be through TK and his energy blasts.

The Ultrons are also capable of energy blasts and encephalo beams, but a hit from your energy blasts would not destroy an Ultron unit, but a single hit from an encephalo beam would KO you.

The Ultrons are also very strong. They are fast enough to have defeated massively FTL characters multiple times so are certainly capable of tagging H'el.

No Caption Provided

He can also use his energy blasts to take out several of the Ultron robots. and on top of that he can disassemble them. He is a genius intellect and understand technology well. He can use his atomic level TK to take them out.

The Ultron-19 model took no damage at all from multiple punches from the Sentry, Ultron-20 took no damage against Adam Warlock and Quasar's blasts, and Ultron-8 was hit by Mjolnir and took no damage. H'el will be facing 11 of robots such as these, all the while having to split his focus by fending of lightning bolts from satellites and the Phalanx in his mind.

And even if any of the Ultrons were somehow damaged, they all have extremely powerful regenerative abilities.

Here Ultron-8 takes on some Scarlet Witch attacks that bypass his shell to attack his internal circuitry but regenerates in a single panel.

No Caption Provided

The scan below is taken from after Ultron kills Sentry's wife, causing him to go berserk on him. He seems to be on the verge of becoming the Void, shown by his black eyes. Still, he is unable to permanently damage Ultron.

No Caption Provided

Their regeneration will be further strengthened by the Phalanx transferred to them by Ultron-20.

Graviton Counters

Being a genius in the field of physics, it allows him to understand his powers even more. A combo of these moves could very realistically take out anyone here.

I agree. Being a genius allows you to understand your powers more.

Hector has always been great with his powers. When he had first gotten them, he was capable of single-handily beating a team of Avengers which consisted of Captain America, Beast, Iron Man, Wasp, Ant Man, Vision, Scarlet Witch, and Wonder Man.

Ultron calls that tuesday.

Hall shouldn't have any problems at the very least pinning them to any surface to apply any form of damage he chooses.

Perhaps, but it is one thing to hold down a team, and another thing entirely to hold down a dozen team-busters at once. I reckon the combined might of the Ultrons and H'el would be too much for Graviton to handle. Has Graviton shown any telepathic resistance? Because if he has no TP resistance, the Phalanx will weaken him to the point where he will not even be able to use his powers.

These force-fields are durable too. Even someone as powerful as Thor found it rather difficult to get through his force-fields, and let me tell you, his striking power is more impressive than many people. I agree that H'el is more powerful, physically stronger, and possibly strikes harder than Thor, but it isn't by a whole lot (striking power wise). This fight was in the classic days when Thor was doing crazy impressive feats like shaking the planet, and pretty everything on the planet with a single blow, so you can tell the type of power Thor is packing.

True, 1 Ultron is a lot stronger than 1 Thor, and 11 of them are even more so, and even in the classic days Ultron has been stomping Thor. Are your force fields and gravitational powers capable of affecting things energy attacks without gravity like my encephalo beam? Also, Ultron-20 could easily teleport the other Ultrons and itself past the force fields.

Ultron: It's not so much Ultron's offensive capabilities (which is more so than the other two in my opinion), but his defenses. Ultron may be powerful, but he isn't exactly fast,

Ultron-20 has defeated massively FTL Sentry and other almost FTL characters like Wonder Man in battle.

so Hall should be capable of countering everything he brings to this battle. Let me start by saying Ultron's drones are pretty much useless here as Hall can crush them all under their own weight, or simply crush them into a ball of metal with a flick of his hand. It's not that difficult for someone like him to do. Anything that isn't true Adamantium is going to be wrecked by Hall, so this brings us back to our 4 free for all.

I'm sure my first post has proven that between their force fields, durability and regeneration, the Ultron drones I'm using will not be done in so easily. Browse through the H'el counters for more feats regarding them.

If Ultron's amour isn't particularly durable, he's going to get crushed too. I don't really see much to do against Ultron except BFR, and that's a last resort. Luckily, one of my other opponents can take him out, while Hall sits back in his force-fields, or he can wait for Ultron, and himself to try everything in their arsenal, in-which he could lift the floor below Ultron, sending into space.

All the Ultron models except the adamantium Ultron-8 -whom could easily be picked up by another one- used here can fly, and Ultron-20 can even teleport.

Yamamoto Counters

As for his telepathy Yamamoto has shown capability in using a barrier-type kido to prevent Muramasa(a zanpakuto manifestation who goes into other's "inner world", think of it as their mind/soul, to take their zanpakuto's spirit and control it) to gain access to himself. Link to the video show casing Yamamoto in the barrier, with Muramasa unable to gain access:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mCoonXGnfY Around 7:30 he can be seen.

Can I have some of Muramasa's telepathic feats, because the Phalanx is extremely strong and has consistently shown to be able to take over characters with very high telepathic resistance. Moreover, Yamamoto will have to use some of his energy on the barrier, while Ultron will not have to do the same for the Phalanx as it can operate independently.

General Counters

Ultron possesses 4 unique and distinct weapons against his opponents which they will be hard-pressed to counter.

First, the weather-manipulating satellites will be able to catch his opponents off-guard with powerful bolts of lightning strong enough to damage Ares and Sentry.

Second, the Phalanx virus will keep Ultron's enemies fighting a two-front war, forcing them to fight at less than their best. Ultron's power on the other hand will not be split by committing to this telepathic assault as the Phalanx is able to operate by itself. If your characters do not have telepathic resistance, they will find themselves too weak to use their powers. Keep in mind that the more damaged your character becomes, the more susceptible he is to the Phalanx. Physical contact by a Phalanx select also greatly increases your susceptibility.

As I've already stated, Nova Prime, who has very high telepathic resistance, was forced to fight at 80% of his strength when faced with the Phalanx, and that was before it had even physically touched him!

Once he had been damaged, he had to be put into a coma just to reserve his strength to keep the virus at bay.

Physical contact from Gamora instantly converted him to the Phalanx after he has been injured.

Third, a single hit from Ultron's encephalo beam will render his enemy into a death-like coma, regardless of their durability.

No Caption Provided

Fourth, teleportation from the Ultron-20 will prove to be an invaluable tool in getting the drop on enemies in this fight.

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