Who from DC can beat franklin richards

@CitizenBane said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@CitizenBane said:

@slick23: Jenny Quantum, formerly of the Authority, currently of Stormwatch.

@LordOfAllHumans: Created imaginary universes (by which I mean universes populated by things that can't make sense in the real world), created dimensions where she could converse with her past lives, summoning versions of herself from across the multiverse, absorbing a universe into herself, swallowing a supernova, etc. An identical twin who had the same powers could merge and collapse realities on a multiversal scale, and it was stated that only Jenny's morals prevented her from doing the same.

He created 3 universes, (Heroes reborn, a toon-verse for all his friends to travel around nothing made sense there, and his "baby universe"), he conversed with future selves in his dream self, he also summoned three versions of himself, he undid his universes, created counter Earth, I'm really not seeing that big of a difference

Jenny created a future version of herself to teach her about her powers, someone more powerful than her considering she had the experience, and then later transformed herself into that future version. She built a dimension containing all the past Jenny's in her head and then brought it into existence. This was later revealed to be a retroactive warp, it was stated that though the dimension she created had existed since the dawn of humanity, it existed only because she believed it had to exist. And like I said, without morals she can bust the multiverse.

So what, his younger self summoned three versions of himself and allowed him to have his abilities of Psilord (older version). How is her creating a dimension that only exists because she believes in it any different than a universe that created that only existed for the same reason? When he created his toon-verse he was not aware of it,the bad guy in the story was a manifestation of himself, as soon as he found that out, that reality ceased to be. Her busting the multiverse remains to be seen, as lesser beings (powerwise) have accomplished the same thing, it's really not that hard to do if you mess with the right forces, a reality warper on a cosmic scale should be able to do that as well, Jaspers and Wanda are two such a reality warpers and Franklin has greater potential than them both. Even Meggan using energy manipulation can discern spatial relations at infinite points if she made one mistake it would have caused univeral breakdown, this would have happened to 616, the prime universe which means all other universe would have followed thus the multiverse and she is not a reality warper or near his power, not making a comparison between universe and multiverse just making a point that you don't even have to be a reality warper to do stuff like that.

Superman because he always wins

Batman via Batfactor.

Seriously though Superspeed and presences.

@Void_Paladin said:

The answer...is still Superman.

LOL well said lol Or Flash

@termiteone4ever said:

@Void_Paladin said:

The answer...is still Superman.

LOL well said lol Or Flash

True. Lets also include...

Wonder Woman

Martian Manhunter

Cheetah

Supergirl

Zoom

And many, many more.

The OP leaves this so open that all these people will be in character most of them will not attack this child that can wipe them out in an instant! In character Franklin has created powerful enemies that give his parents hell without knowing, in character he created a being that was trying to kill his friends. All heroes in character will be caught in his warp, and most of them do not have the power to get out once in, so what is Superman, Flash, Wonder Woman etc..gonna do once inside his "universe"?

@LordOfAllHumans: In character, Superman beats the hell out of a boy about Franks age on a regular basis. His name is...Billy Batson.

The answer...is still Superman.

@Void_Paladin said:

@LordOfAllHumans: In character, Superman beats the hell out of a boy about Franks age on a regular basis. His name is...Billy Batson.

The answer...is still Superman.

Cute, here's something cuter, Billy is older than Franklin.

Captain Marvel is a superman level character and Superman is aware of it, he would not beat up Billy, he beats up Captain Marvel.

The Question is... Can a telepathic reality warper with precognition turn the world into Kryptonite?

Dr Fate

Zoom.

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@Void_Paladin said:

@LordOfAllHumans: In character, Superman beats the hell out of a boy about Franks age on a regular basis. His name is...Billy Batson.

The answer...is still Superman.

Cute, here's something cuter, Billy is older than Franklin.

Captain Marvel is a superman level character and Superman is aware of it, he would not beat up Billy, he beats up Captain Marvel.

The Question is... Can a telepathic reality warper with precognition turn the world into Kryptonite?

Of course he can, if he only had knowledge of Superman's weakness that he doesn't have here. Still, there's a gigantic number of things he could do to beat Clark, just not before Superman knocks him out faster than he can think. He will do this because in a battle on this forum, characters are assumed to fight to the best of their ability, without going outside the realm of what the character would do.

Superman, Wonder Woman, and The Flash have put a hurt on their respective sidekicks and other young meta-humans when they got out of hand. It is not outside of Clark's moral code to knock a unconscious if he deems him a threat.

The OP doesn't state that Franks ambushing these people, so we can only assume that both combatants are fighting each other. Not Frank attacking Clark, while Superman walks up with an ice cream cone. In a fair fight, Sups is quick enough to attack first and has the tools to end the fight in one shot.

The answer...is still Superman.

@Void_Paladin said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@Void_Paladin said:

@LordOfAllHumans: In character, Superman beats the hell out of a boy about Franks age on a regular basis. His name is...Billy Batson.

The answer...is still Superman.

Cute, here's something cuter, Billy is older than Franklin.

Captain Marvel is a superman level character and Superman is aware of it, he would not beat up Billy, he beats up Captain Marvel.

The Question is... Can a telepathic reality warper with precognition turn the world into Kryptonite?

Of course he can, if he only had knowledge of Superman's weakness that he doesn't have here. Still, there's a gigantic number of things he could do to beat Clark, just not before Superman knocks him out faster than he can think. He will do this because in a battle on this forum, characters are assumed to fight to the best of their ability, without going outside the realm of what the character would do.

Superman, Wonder Woman, and The Flash have put a hurt on their respective sidekicks and other young meta-humans when they got out of hand. It is not outside of Clark's moral code to knock a unconscious if he deems him a threat.

The OP doesn't state that Franks ambushing these people, so we can only assume that both combatants are fighting each other. Not Frank attacking Clark, while Superman walks up with an ice cream cone. In a fair fight, Sups is quick enough to attack first and has the tools to end the fight in one shot.

The answer...is still Superman.

that's why I mentioned he is a telepath and precog which gives him plenty of options when it comes to finding out a weakness. in character Superman holds back on adult foes, so I don't see him or any of them knocking some kid out at the word go, not that I believe they can anyway as at the word go, this kid can start to warp reality without actually forming thoughts, his powers usually warp reality based on how he feels and he will feel threatened, reality will respond.

@LordOfAllHumans said:

So what, his younger self summoned three versions of himself and allowed him to have his abilities of Psilord (older version). How is her creating a dimension that only exists because she believes in it any different than a universe that created that only existed for the same reason? When he created his toon-verse he was not aware of it,the bad guy in the story was a manifestation of himself, as soon as he found that out, that reality ceased to be. Her busting the multiverse remains to be seen, as lesser beings (powerwise) have accomplished the same thing, it's really not that hard to do if you mess with the right forces, a reality warper on a cosmic scale should be able to do that as well, Jaspers and Wanda are two such a reality warpers and Franklin has greater potential than them both. Even Meggan using energy manipulation can discern spatial relations at infinite points if she made one mistake it would have caused univeral breakdown, this would have happened to 616, the prime universe which means all other universe would have followed thus the multiverse and she is not a reality warper or near his power, not making a comparison between universe and multiverse just making a point that you don't even have to be a reality warper to do stuff like that.

Jenny died and brought herself back to life through sheer force of will. The dimension she created was different from Franklin's universe because his universe only existed once he created it. Jenny's dimension (Infinite City) was revealed to have retroactively existed since the dawn of the Century Spirits, ages and ages before Jenny's birth. But Infinite City only came into being because Jenny wanted it to to. She essentially warped eternity relative to the WS universe. Jenny Fractal didn't mess with spatial relations, she tapped into the Bleed and started pulling all the universes of the multiverse into each other, so that planets and galaxies and such started invading other universes and damaging the integrity of the multiverse. As far as battles go, I don't believe Franklin has ever fought someone as powerful as himself. Jenny has fought the Doctor.

@LordOfAllHumans said:

So what, his younger self summoned three versions of himself and allowed him to have his abilities of Psilord (older version). How is her creating a dimension that only exists because she believes in it any different than a universe that created that only existed for the same reason? When he created his toon-verse he was not aware of it,the bad guy in the story was a manifestation of himself, as soon as he found that out, that reality ceased to be. Her busting the multiverse remains to be seen, as lesser beings (powerwise) have accomplished the same thing, it's really not that hard to do if you mess with the right forces, a reality warper on a cosmic scale should be able to do that as well, Jaspers and Wanda are two such a reality warpers and Franklin has greater potential than them both. Even Meggan using energy manipulation can discern spatial relations at infinite points if she made one mistake it would have caused univeral breakdown, this would have happened to 616, the prime universe which means all other universe would have followed thus the multiverse and she is not a reality warper or near his power, not making a comparison between universe and multiverse just making a point that you don't even have to be a reality warper to do stuff like that.

Jenny died and brought herself back to life through sheer force of will. The dimension she created was different from Franklin's universe because his universe only existed once he created it. Jenny's dimension (Infinite City) was revealed to have retroactively existed since the dawn of the Century Spirits, ages and ages before Jenny's birth. But Infinite City only came into being because Jenny wanted it to to. She essentially warped eternity relative to the WS universe. Jenny Fractal didn't mess with spatial relations, she tapped into the Bleed and started pulling all the universes of the multiverse into each other, so that planets and galaxies and such started invading other universes and damaging the integrity of the multiverse. As far as battles go, I don't believe Franklin has ever fought someone as powerful as himself. Jenny has fought the Doctor.

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@CitizenBane said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

So what, his younger self summoned three versions of himself and allowed him to have his abilities of Psilord (older version). How is her creating a dimension that only exists because she believes in it any different than a universe that created that only existed for the same reason? When he created his toon-verse he was not aware of it,the bad guy in the story was a manifestation of himself, as soon as he found that out, that reality ceased to be. Her busting the multiverse remains to be seen, as lesser beings (powerwise) have accomplished the same thing, it's really not that hard to do if you mess with the right forces, a reality warper on a cosmic scale should be able to do that as well, Jaspers and Wanda are two such a reality warpers and Franklin has greater potential than them both. Even Meggan using energy manipulation can discern spatial relations at infinite points if she made one mistake it would have caused univeral breakdown, this would have happened to 616, the prime universe which means all other universe would have followed thus the multiverse and she is not a reality warper or near his power, not making a comparison between universe and multiverse just making a point that you don't even have to be a reality warper to do stuff like that.

Jenny died and brought herself back to life through sheer force of will. The dimension she created was different from Franklin's universe because his universe only existed once he created it. Jenny's dimension (Infinite City) was revealed to have retroactively existed since the dawn of the Century Spirits, ages and ages before Jenny's birth. But Infinite City only came into being because Jenny wanted it to to. She essentially warped eternity relative to the WS universe. Jenny Fractal didn't mess with spatial relations, she tapped into the Bleed and started pulling all the universes of the multiverse into each other, so that planets and galaxies and such started invading other universes and damaging the integrity of the multiverse. As far as battles go, I don't believe Franklin has ever fought someone as powerful as himself. Jenny has fought the Doctor.

Did she bring herself back or was she just back because of reboot? Can you tell me the issues when Infinite City was created and it's retroactive existence is revealed, all I seem to getting is that she was taken there by a future self, I'm only seeing that it was created by her by people saying it on forums, and then not being questioned about it. Even though he hasn't done anything like that with the scope of his powers I don't see how it wouldn't be possible, he can create universes and he can time travel, put them together and he could duplicate that feat. As for the multiverse thing, I don't see how that is any different than causing a breakdown by manipulating spatial relations, planets, galaxies and universes invading each other seems to deal in spatial relations as they are not where they are supposed to be and thus threaten existence. When you mentioned it, it seems as if you were saying she was just doing it, which is something else that I believe would be in the scope of his power, she used the bleed, which is the space between universes I really don't see how this is beyond his power either then, seems very similar to the Beyond that Meggan can tap. Franklins dream-self didn't fight, but beat Mepshisto in his own realm with a few words, no small feat. I think you're trying to build a case that makes her more powerful, I don't think either of them is more powerful than the other. You said she absorbed a universe, and it turns out it was a miniature universe and is the engine of the Carrier, and nothing to show that she survived doing it.

No, she brought herself back to life and displaced the consciousness of her twin. Infinite City was created (or rather, first seen) in The Authority: Revolution, and the future self was revealed to have actually just been an aspect of Jenny's mind, not someone who was actually from the future. When she got there, every Century Spirit who'd ever existed was there, even though Jenny had never met or heard of any of them she had brought them all there without even knowing about it. It wasn't a miniature universe, it was a newly born one that powered the Carrier. It was basically a baby universe that was still large enough to overwrite the entire WS universe if it was released. She was supposed to eventually resurface (she even told the Doctor that she would) but before that the Wildstorm imprint closed down with the World's End event. She did collapse one of her universes while she was inside it and come to no harm.

Batman or Zoom.

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@CitizenBane said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

So what, his younger self summoned three versions of himself and allowed him to have his abilities of Psilord (older version). How is her creating a dimension that only exists because she believes in it any different than a universe that created that only existed for the same reason? When he created his toon-verse he was not aware of it,the bad guy in the story was a manifestation of himself, as soon as he found that out, that reality ceased to be. Her busting the multiverse remains to be seen, as lesser beings (powerwise) have accomplished the same thing, it's really not that hard to do if you mess with the right forces, a reality warper on a cosmic scale should be able to do that as well, Jaspers and Wanda are two such a reality warpers and Franklin has greater potential than them both. Even Meggan using energy manipulation can discern spatial relations at infinite points if she made one mistake it would have caused univeral breakdown, this would have happened to 616, the prime universe which means all other universe would have followed thus the multiverse and she is not a reality warper or near his power, not making a comparison between universe and multiverse just making a point that you don't even have to be a reality warper to do stuff like that.

Jenny died and brought herself back to life through sheer force of will. The dimension she created was different from Franklin's universe because his universe only existed once he created it. Jenny's dimension (Infinite City) was revealed to have retroactively existed since the dawn of the Century Spirits, ages and ages before Jenny's birth. But Infinite City only came into being because Jenny wanted it to to. She essentially warped eternity relative to the WS universe. Jenny Fractal didn't mess with spatial relations, she tapped into the Bleed and started pulling all the universes of the multiverse into each other, so that planets and galaxies and such started invading other universes and damaging the integrity of the multiverse. As far as battles go, I don't believe Franklin has ever fought someone as powerful as himself. Jenny has fought the Doctor.

Did she bring herself back or was she just back because of reboot? Can you tell me the issues when Infinite City was created and it's retroactive existence is revealed, all I seem to getting is that she was taken there by a future self, I'm only seeing that it was created by her by people saying it on forums, and then not being questioned about it. Even though he hasn't done anything like that with the scope of his powers I don't see how it wouldn't be possible, he can create universes and he can time travel, put them together and he could duplicate that feat. As for the multiverse thing, I don't see how that is any different than causing a breakdown by manipulating spatial relations, planets, galaxies and universes invading each other seems to deal in spatial relations as they are not where they are supposed to be and thus threaten existence. When you mentioned it, it seems as if you were saying she was just doing it, which is something else that I believe would be in the scope of his power, she used the bleed, which is the space between universes I really don't see how this is beyond his power either then, seems very similar to the Beyond that Meggan can tap. Franklins dream-self didn't fight, but beat Mepshisto in his own realm with a few words, no small feat. I think you're trying to build a case that makes her more powerful, I don't think either of them is more powerful than the other. You said she absorbed a universe, and it turns out it was a miniature universe and is the engine of the Carrier, and nothing to show that she survived doing it.

No, she brought herself back to life and displaced the consciousness of her twin. Infinite City was created (or rather, first seen) in The Authority: Prime, and the future self was revealed to have actually just been an aspect of Jenny's mind, not someone who was actually from the future. When she got there, every Century Spirit who'd ever existed was there, even though Jenny had never met or heard of any of them she had brought them all there without even knowing about it. It wasn't a miniature universe, it was a newly born one that powered the Carrier. It was basically a baby universe that was still large enough to overwrite the entire WS universe if it was released. She was supposed to eventually resurface (she even told the Doctor that she would) but before that the Wildstorm imprint closed down with the World's End event. She did collapse one of her universes while she was inside it and come to no harm.?

 

Aren't the Century Babies part of something far larger than the individuals that make them up as a group?  Why would she have to know about them?  They existed since the dawn of time, and apparently they were always there.  They would have existed whether she did or not, they seem to be very much like the Avatars that Aang can speak too, since they are all really just old incarnations of her, she isn't unique she is part of a cycle, she is the reincarnation of the others, they will always be with her, their powers did not involve the same forces as hers did so there was no way for that dimension to manifest anyway.  As far as the universe thing is concerned it's more semantics than anything else, Franklin created a baby universe, she absorbed one.  The same forces that created one are the same forces that are in an absorbed one, she didn't survive it whatever kind of universe we call it.  Franklin was inside his Toon-verse when he ended it and was fine too.  I'm still not seeing what makes her more powerful.

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@CitizenBane said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@CitizenBane said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

So what, his younger self summoned three versions of himself and allowed him to have his abilities of Psilord (older version). How is her creating a dimension that only exists because she believes in it any different than a universe that created that only existed for the same reason? When he created his toon-verse he was not aware of it,the bad guy in the story was a manifestation of himself, as soon as he found that out, that reality ceased to be. Her busting the multiverse remains to be seen, as lesser beings (powerwise) have accomplished the same thing, it's really not that hard to do if you mess with the right forces, a reality warper on a cosmic scale should be able to do that as well, Jaspers and Wanda are two such a reality warpers and Franklin has greater potential than them both. Even Meggan using energy manipulation can discern spatial relations at infinite points if she made one mistake it would have caused univeral breakdown, this would have happened to 616, the prime universe which means all other universe would have followed thus the multiverse and she is not a reality warper or near his power, not making a comparison between universe and multiverse just making a point that you don't even have to be a reality warper to do stuff like that.

Jenny died and brought herself back to life through sheer force of will. The dimension she created was different from Franklin's universe because his universe only existed once he created it. Jenny's dimension (Infinite City) was revealed to have retroactively existed since the dawn of the Century Spirits, ages and ages before Jenny's birth. But Infinite City only came into being because Jenny wanted it to to. She essentially warped eternity relative to the WS universe. Jenny Fractal didn't mess with spatial relations, she tapped into the Bleed and started pulling all the universes of the multiverse into each other, so that planets and galaxies and such started invading other universes and damaging the integrity of the multiverse. As far as battles go, I don't believe Franklin has ever fought someone as powerful as himself. Jenny has fought the Doctor.

Did she bring herself back or was she just back because of reboot? Can you tell me the issues when Infinite City was created and it's retroactive existence is revealed, all I seem to getting is that she was taken there by a future self, I'm only seeing that it was created by her by people saying it on forums, and then not being questioned about it. Even though he hasn't done anything like that with the scope of his powers I don't see how it wouldn't be possible, he can create universes and he can time travel, put them together and he could duplicate that feat. As for the multiverse thing, I don't see how that is any different than causing a breakdown by manipulating spatial relations, planets, galaxies and universes invading each other seems to deal in spatial relations as they are not where they are supposed to be and thus threaten existence. When you mentioned it, it seems as if you were saying she was just doing it, which is something else that I believe would be in the scope of his power, she used the bleed, which is the space between universes I really don't see how this is beyond his power either then, seems very similar to the Beyond that Meggan can tap. Franklins dream-self didn't fight, but beat Mepshisto in his own realm with a few words, no small feat. I think you're trying to build a case that makes her more powerful, I don't think either of them is more powerful than the other. You said she absorbed a universe, and it turns out it was a miniature universe and is the engine of the Carrier, and nothing to show that she survived doing it.

No, she brought herself back to life and displaced the consciousness of her twin. Infinite City was created (or rather, first seen) in The Authority: Prime, and the future self was revealed to have actually just been an aspect of Jenny's mind, not someone who was actually from the future. When she got there, every Century Spirit who'd ever existed was there, even though Jenny had never met or heard of any of them she had brought them all there without even knowing about it. It wasn't a miniature universe, it was a newly born one that powered the Carrier. It was basically a baby universe that was still large enough to overwrite the entire WS universe if it was released. She was supposed to eventually resurface (she even told the Doctor that she would) but before that the Wildstorm imprint closed down with the World's End event. She did collapse one of her universes while she was inside it and come to no harm.?

Aren't the Century Babies part of something far larger than the individuals that make them up as a group? Why would she have to know about them? They existed since the dawn of time, and apparently they were always there. They would have existed whether she did or not, they seem to be very much like the Avatars that Aang can speak too, since they are all really just old incarnations of her, she isn't unique she is part of a cycle, she is the reincarnation of the others, they will always be with her, their powers did not involve the same forces as hers did so there was no way for that dimension to manifest anyway. As far as the universe thing is concerned it's more semantics than anything else, Franklin created a baby universe, she absorbed one. The same forces that created one are the same forces that are in an absorbed one, she didn't survive it whatever kind of universe we call it. Franklin was inside his Toon-verse when he ended it and was fine too. I'm still not seeing what makes her more powerful.

The Century Babies and the Century Spirits are different. I believe it was revealed in an issue of Planetary that the Century Babies as a whole were created by forces above the multiverse to safeguard creation. The regular Century Babies like Elijah Snow and Axel Brass are immortal. The Century Spirits like Jenny Sparks and Jenny Quantum have a fixed 100 year life span (but in Armageddon the Doctor revealed that if the Century Spirit is somehow killed before the 100 years is up, all life in that particular universe ends). She'd have to know about them because each Spirit is different, shaped by the century she's in. They're not all the same, it's not like the Doctor where each new Doctor has the memories and knowledge of all the previous ones.

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@CitizenBane said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@CitizenBane said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

So what, his younger self summoned three versions of himself and allowed him to have his abilities of Psilord (older version). How is her creating a dimension that only exists because she believes in it any different than a universe that created that only existed for the same reason? When he created his toon-verse he was not aware of it,the bad guy in the story was a manifestation of himself, as soon as he found that out, that reality ceased to be. Her busting the multiverse remains to be seen, as lesser beings (powerwise) have accomplished the same thing, it's really not that hard to do if you mess with the right forces, a reality warper on a cosmic scale should be able to do that as well, Jaspers and Wanda are two such a reality warpers and Franklin has greater potential than them both. Even Meggan using energy manipulation can discern spatial relations at infinite points if she made one mistake it would have caused univeral breakdown, this would have happened to 616, the prime universe which means all other universe would have followed thus the multiverse and she is not a reality warper or near his power, not making a comparison between universe and multiverse just making a point that you don't even have to be a reality warper to do stuff like that.

Jenny died and brought herself back to life through sheer force of will. The dimension she created was different from Franklin's universe because his universe only existed once he created it. Jenny's dimension (Infinite City) was revealed to have retroactively existed since the dawn of the Century Spirits, ages and ages before Jenny's birth. But Infinite City only came into being because Jenny wanted it to to. She essentially warped eternity relative to the WS universe. Jenny Fractal didn't mess with spatial relations, she tapped into the Bleed and started pulling all the universes of the multiverse into each other, so that planets and galaxies and such started invading other universes and damaging the integrity of the multiverse. As far as battles go, I don't believe Franklin has ever fought someone as powerful as himself. Jenny has fought the Doctor.

Did she bring herself back or was she just back because of reboot? Can you tell me the issues when Infinite City was created and it's retroactive existence is revealed, all I seem to getting is that she was taken there by a future self, I'm only seeing that it was created by her by people saying it on forums, and then not being questioned about it. Even though he hasn't done anything like that with the scope of his powers I don't see how it wouldn't be possible, he can create universes and he can time travel, put them together and he could duplicate that feat. As for the multiverse thing, I don't see how that is any different than causing a breakdown by manipulating spatial relations, planets, galaxies and universes invading each other seems to deal in spatial relations as they are not where they are supposed to be and thus threaten existence. When you mentioned it, it seems as if you were saying she was just doing it, which is something else that I believe would be in the scope of his power, she used the bleed, which is the space between universes I really don't see how this is beyond his power either then, seems very similar to the Beyond that Meggan can tap. Franklins dream-self didn't fight, but beat Mepshisto in his own realm with a few words, no small feat. I think you're trying to build a case that makes her more powerful, I don't think either of them is more powerful than the other. You said she absorbed a universe, and it turns out it was a miniature universe and is the engine of the Carrier, and nothing to show that she survived doing it.

No, she brought herself back to life and displaced the consciousness of her twin. Infinite City was created (or rather, first seen) in The Authority: Prime, and the future self was revealed to have actually just been an aspect of Jenny's mind, not someone who was actually from the future. When she got there, every Century Spirit who'd ever existed was there, even though Jenny had never met or heard of any of them she had brought them all there without even knowing about it. It wasn't a miniature universe, it was a newly born one that powered the Carrier. It was basically a baby universe that was still large enough to overwrite the entire WS universe if it was released. She was supposed to eventually resurface (she even told the Doctor that she would) but before that the Wildstorm imprint closed down with the World's End event. She did collapse one of her universes while she was inside it and come to no harm.?

Aren't the Century Babies part of something far larger than the individuals that make them up as a group? Why would she have to know about them? They existed since the dawn of time, and apparently they were always there. They would have existed whether she did or not, they seem to be very much like the Avatars that Aang can speak too, since they are all really just old incarnations of her, she isn't unique she is part of a cycle, she is the reincarnation of the others, they will always be with her, their powers did not involve the same forces as hers did so there was no way for that dimension to manifest anyway. As far as the universe thing is concerned it's more semantics than anything else, Franklin created a baby universe, she absorbed one. The same forces that created one are the same forces that are in an absorbed one, she didn't survive it whatever kind of universe we call it. Franklin was inside his Toon-verse when he ended it and was fine too. I'm still not seeing what makes her more powerful.

The Century Babies and the Century Spirits are different. I believe it was revealed in an issue of Planetary that the Century Babies as a whole were created by forces above the multiverse to safeguard creation. The regular Century Babies like Elijah Snow and Axel Brass are immortal. The Century Spirits like Jenny Sparks and Jenny Quantum have a fixed 100 year life span (but in Armageddon the Doctor revealed that if the Century Spirit is somehow killed before the 100 years is up, all life in that particular universe ends). She'd have to know about them because each Spirit is different, shaped by the century she's in. They're not all the same, it's not like the Doctor where each new Doctor has the memories and knowledge of all the previous ones.

any one of the entiities from the whole green lantern thing, or Zatanna. Im would think her majic could protect her. If any of the people of DC knew what they were getting into I imagine they could give a one two punch KO to franklin.

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@CitizenBane said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@CitizenBane said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@CitizenBane said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

So what, his younger self summoned three versions of himself and allowed him to have his abilities of Psilord (older version). How is her creating a dimension that only exists because she believes in it any different than a universe that created that only existed for the same reason? When he created his toon-verse he was not aware of it,the bad guy in the story was a manifestation of himself, as soon as he found that out, that reality ceased to be. Her busting the multiverse remains to be seen, as lesser beings (powerwise) have accomplished the same thing, it's really not that hard to do if you mess with the right forces, a reality warper on a cosmic scale should be able to do that as well, Jaspers and Wanda are two such a reality warpers and Franklin has greater potential than them both. Even Meggan using energy manipulation can discern spatial relations at infinite points if she made one mistake it would have caused univeral breakdown, this would have happened to 616, the prime universe which means all other universe would have followed thus the multiverse and she is not a reality warper or near his power, not making a comparison between universe and multiverse just making a point that you don't even have to be a reality warper to do stuff like that.

Jenny died and brought herself back to life through sheer force of will. The dimension she created was different from Franklin's universe because his universe only existed once he created it. Jenny's dimension (Infinite City) was revealed to have retroactively existed since the dawn of the Century Spirits, ages and ages before Jenny's birth. But Infinite City only came into being because Jenny wanted it to to. She essentially warped eternity relative to the WS universe. Jenny Fractal didn't mess with spatial relations, she tapped into the Bleed and started pulling all the universes of the multiverse into each other, so that planets and galaxies and such started invading other universes and damaging the integrity of the multiverse. As far as battles go, I don't believe Franklin has ever fought someone as powerful as himself. Jenny has fought the Doctor.

Did she bring herself back or was she just back because of reboot? Can you tell me the issues when Infinite City was created and it's retroactive existence is revealed, all I seem to getting is that she was taken there by a future self, I'm only seeing that it was created by her by people saying it on forums, and then not being questioned about it. Even though he hasn't done anything like that with the scope of his powers I don't see how it wouldn't be possible, he can create universes and he can time travel, put them together and he could duplicate that feat. As for the multiverse thing, I don't see how that is any different than causing a breakdown by manipulating spatial relations, planets, galaxies and universes invading each other seems to deal in spatial relations as they are not where they are supposed to be and thus threaten existence. When you mentioned it, it seems as if you were saying she was just doing it, which is something else that I believe would be in the scope of his power, she used the bleed, which is the space between universes I really don't see how this is beyond his power either then, seems very similar to the Beyond that Meggan can tap. Franklins dream-self didn't fight, but beat Mepshisto in his own realm with a few words, no small feat. I think you're trying to build a case that makes her more powerful, I don't think either of them is more powerful than the other. You said she absorbed a universe, and it turns out it was a miniature universe and is the engine of the Carrier, and nothing to show that she survived doing it.

No, she brought herself back to life and displaced the consciousness of her twin. Infinite City was created (or rather, first seen) in The Authority: Prime, and the future self was revealed to have actually just been an aspect of Jenny's mind, not someone who was actually from the future. When she got there, every Century Spirit who'd ever existed was there, even though Jenny had never met or heard of any of them she had brought them all there without even knowing about it. It wasn't a miniature universe, it was a newly born one that powered the Carrier. It was basically a baby universe that was still large enough to overwrite the entire WS universe if it was released. She was supposed to eventually resurface (she even told the Doctor that she would) but before that the Wildstorm imprint closed down with the World's End event. She did collapse one of her universes while she was inside it and come to no harm.?

Aren't the Century Babies part of something far larger than the individuals that make them up as a group? Why would she have to know about them? They existed since the dawn of time, and apparently they were always there. They would have existed whether she did or not, they seem to be very much like the Avatars that Aang can speak too, since they are all really just old incarnations of her, she isn't unique she is part of a cycle, she is the reincarnation of the others, they will always be with her, their powers did not involve the same forces as hers did so there was no way for that dimension to manifest anyway. As far as the universe thing is concerned it's more semantics than anything else, Franklin created a baby universe, she absorbed one. The same forces that created one are the same forces that are in an absorbed one, she didn't survive it whatever kind of universe we call it. Franklin was inside his Toon-verse when he ended it and was fine too. I'm still not seeing what makes her more powerful.

The Century Babies and the Century Spirits are different. I believe it was revealed in an issue of Planetary that the Century Babies as a whole were created by forces above the multiverse to safeguard creation. The regular Century Babies like Elijah Snow and Axel Brass are immortal. The Century Spirits like Jenny Sparks and Jenny Quantum have a fixed 100 year life span (but in Armageddon the Doctor revealed that if the Century Spirit is somehow killed before the 100 years is up, all life in that particular universe ends). She'd have to know about them because each Spirit is different, shaped by the century she's in. They're not all the same, it's not like the Doctor where each new Doctor has the memories and knowledge of all the previous ones.

I beg to differ, the "fixed" Century Babies are reincarnations of the one before them, Jenny Quantum was not born until Jenny Sparks died, so she would know about the dead ones because obviously they kept the cycle going.

They are part of a cycle, yes, but they're not full-blown reincarnations. Even they never met each other until Jenny thought of Infinite City, and then suddenly they had all met each other for centuries before that. She warped a cycle created by extramultiversal forces. And she wasn't even conscious of it until Jenny Sparks told her what she'd done.

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@CitizenBane said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@CitizenBane said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@CitizenBane said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

So what, his younger self summoned three versions of himself and allowed him to have his abilities of Psilord (older version). How is her creating a dimension that only exists because she believes in it any different than a universe that created that only existed for the same reason? When he created his toon-verse he was not aware of it,the bad guy in the story was a manifestation of himself, as soon as he found that out, that reality ceased to be. Her busting the multiverse remains to be seen, as lesser beings (powerwise) have accomplished the same thing, it's really not that hard to do if you mess with the right forces, a reality warper on a cosmic scale should be able to do that as well, Jaspers and Wanda are two such a reality warpers and Franklin has greater potential than them both. Even Meggan using energy manipulation can discern spatial relations at infinite points if she made one mistake it would have caused univeral breakdown, this would have happened to 616, the prime universe which means all other universe would have followed thus the multiverse and she is not a reality warper or near his power, not making a comparison between universe and multiverse just making a point that you don't even have to be a reality warper to do stuff like that.

Jenny died and brought herself back to life through sheer force of will. The dimension she created was different from Franklin's universe because his universe only existed once he created it. Jenny's dimension (Infinite City) was revealed to have retroactively existed since the dawn of the Century Spirits, ages and ages before Jenny's birth. But Infinite City only came into being because Jenny wanted it to to. She essentially warped eternity relative to the WS universe. Jenny Fractal didn't mess with spatial relations, she tapped into the Bleed and started pulling all the universes of the multiverse into each other, so that planets and galaxies and such started invading other universes and damaging the integrity of the multiverse. As far as battles go, I don't believe Franklin has ever fought someone as powerful as himself. Jenny has fought the Doctor.

Did she bring herself back or was she just back because of reboot? Can you tell me the issues when Infinite City was created and it's retroactive existence is revealed, all I seem to getting is that she was taken there by a future self, I'm only seeing that it was created by her by people saying it on forums, and then not being questioned about it. Even though he hasn't done anything like that with the scope of his powers I don't see how it wouldn't be possible, he can create universes and he can time travel, put them together and he could duplicate that feat. As for the multiverse thing, I don't see how that is any different than causing a breakdown by manipulating spatial relations, planets, galaxies and universes invading each other seems to deal in spatial relations as they are not where they are supposed to be and thus threaten existence. When you mentioned it, it seems as if you were saying she was just doing it, which is something else that I believe would be in the scope of his power, she used the bleed, which is the space between universes I really don't see how this is beyond his power either then, seems very similar to the Beyond that Meggan can tap. Franklins dream-self didn't fight, but beat Mepshisto in his own realm with a few words, no small feat. I think you're trying to build a case that makes her more powerful, I don't think either of them is more powerful than the other. You said she absorbed a universe, and it turns out it was a miniature universe and is the engine of the Carrier, and nothing to show that she survived doing it.

No, she brought herself back to life and displaced the consciousness of her twin. Infinite City was created (or rather, first seen) in The Authority: Prime, and the future self was revealed to have actually just been an aspect of Jenny's mind, not someone who was actually from the future. When she got there, every Century Spirit who'd ever existed was there, even though Jenny had never met or heard of any of them she had brought them all there without even knowing about it. It wasn't a miniature universe, it was a newly born one that powered the Carrier. It was basically a baby universe that was still large enough to overwrite the entire WS universe if it was released. She was supposed to eventually resurface (she even told the Doctor that she would) but before that the Wildstorm imprint closed down with the World's End event. She did collapse one of her universes while she was inside it and come to no harm.?

Aren't the Century Babies part of something far larger than the individuals that make them up as a group? Why would she have to know about them? They existed since the dawn of time, and apparently they were always there. They would have existed whether she did or not, they seem to be very much like the Avatars that Aang can speak too, since they are all really just old incarnations of her, she isn't unique she is part of a cycle, she is the reincarnation of the others, they will always be with her, their powers did not involve the same forces as hers did so there was no way for that dimension to manifest anyway. As far as the universe thing is concerned it's more semantics than anything else, Franklin created a baby universe, she absorbed one. The same forces that created one are the same forces that are in an absorbed one, she didn't survive it whatever kind of universe we call it. Franklin was inside his Toon-verse when he ended it and was fine too. I'm still not seeing what makes her more powerful.

The Century Babies and the Century Spirits are different. I believe it was revealed in an issue of Planetary that the Century Babies as a whole were created by forces above the multiverse to safeguard creation. The regular Century Babies like Elijah Snow and Axel Brass are immortal. The Century Spirits like Jenny Sparks and Jenny Quantum have a fixed 100 year life span (but in Armageddon the Doctor revealed that if the Century Spirit is somehow killed before the 100 years is up, all life in that particular universe ends). She'd have to know about them because each Spirit is different, shaped by the century she's in. They're not all the same, it's not like the Doctor where each new Doctor has the memories and knowledge of all the previous ones.

I beg to differ, the "fixed" Century Babies are reincarnations of the one before them, Jenny Quantum was not born until Jenny Sparks died, so she would know about the dead ones because obviously they kept the cycle going.

They are part of a cycle, yes, but they're not full-blown reincarnations. Even they never met each other until Jenny thought of Infinite City, and then suddenly they had all met each other for centuries before that. She warped a cycle created by extramultiversal forces. And she wasn't even conscious of it until Jenny Sparks told her what she'd done.

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@CitizenBane said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@CitizenBane said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@CitizenBane said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@CitizenBane said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

So what, his younger self summoned three versions of himself and allowed him to have his abilities of Psilord (older version). How is her creating a dimension that only exists because she believes in it any different than a universe that created that only existed for the same reason? When he created his toon-verse he was not aware of it,the bad guy in the story was a manifestation of himself, as soon as he found that out, that reality ceased to be. Her busting the multiverse remains to be seen, as lesser beings (powerwise) have accomplished the same thing, it's really not that hard to do if you mess with the right forces, a reality warper on a cosmic scale should be able to do that as well, Jaspers and Wanda are two such a reality warpers and Franklin has greater potential than them both. Even Meggan using energy manipulation can discern spatial relations at infinite points if she made one mistake it would have caused univeral breakdown, this would have happened to 616, the prime universe which means all other universe would have followed thus the multiverse and she is not a reality warper or near his power, not making a comparison between universe and multiverse just making a point that you don't even have to be a reality warper to do stuff like that.

Jenny died and brought herself back to life through sheer force of will. The dimension she created was different from Franklin's universe because his universe only existed once he created it. Jenny's dimension (Infinite City) was revealed to have retroactively existed since the dawn of the Century Spirits, ages and ages before Jenny's birth. But Infinite City only came into being because Jenny wanted it to to. She essentially warped eternity relative to the WS universe. Jenny Fractal didn't mess with spatial relations, she tapped into the Bleed and started pulling all the universes of the multiverse into each other, so that planets and galaxies and such started invading other universes and damaging the integrity of the multiverse. As far as battles go, I don't believe Franklin has ever fought someone as powerful as himself. Jenny has fought the Doctor.

Did she bring herself back or was she just back because of reboot? Can you tell me the issues when Infinite City was created and it's retroactive existence is revealed, all I seem to getting is that she was taken there by a future self, I'm only seeing that it was created by her by people saying it on forums, and then not being questioned about it. Even though he hasn't done anything like that with the scope of his powers I don't see how it wouldn't be possible, he can create universes and he can time travel, put them together and he could duplicate that feat. As for the multiverse thing, I don't see how that is any different than causing a breakdown by manipulating spatial relations, planets, galaxies and universes invading each other seems to deal in spatial relations as they are not where they are supposed to be and thus threaten existence. When you mentioned it, it seems as if you were saying she was just doing it, which is something else that I believe would be in the scope of his power, she used the bleed, which is the space between universes I really don't see how this is beyond his power either then, seems very similar to the Beyond that Meggan can tap. Franklins dream-self didn't fight, but beat Mepshisto in his own realm with a few words, no small feat. I think you're trying to build a case that makes her more powerful, I don't think either of them is more powerful than the other. You said she absorbed a universe, and it turns out it was a miniature universe and is the engine of the Carrier, and nothing to show that she survived doing it.

No, she brought herself back to life and displaced the consciousness of her twin. Infinite City was created (or rather, first seen) in The Authority: Prime, and the future self was revealed to have actually just been an aspect of Jenny's mind, not someone who was actually from the future. When she got there, every Century Spirit who'd ever existed was there, even though Jenny had never met or heard of any of them she had brought them all there without even knowing about it. It wasn't a miniature universe, it was a newly born one that powered the Carrier. It was basically a baby universe that was still large enough to overwrite the entire WS universe if it was released. She was supposed to eventually resurface (she even told the Doctor that she would) but before that the Wildstorm imprint closed down with the World's End event. She did collapse one of her universes while she was inside it and come to no harm.?

Aren't the Century Babies part of something far larger than the individuals that make them up as a group? Why would she have to know about them? They existed since the dawn of time, and apparently they were always there. They would have existed whether she did or not, they seem to be very much like the Avatars that Aang can speak too, since they are all really just old incarnations of her, she isn't unique she is part of a cycle, she is the reincarnation of the others, they will always be with her, their powers did not involve the same forces as hers did so there was no way for that dimension to manifest anyway. As far as the universe thing is concerned it's more semantics than anything else, Franklin created a baby universe, she absorbed one. The same forces that created one are the same forces that are in an absorbed one, she didn't survive it whatever kind of universe we call it. Franklin was inside his Toon-verse when he ended it and was fine too. I'm still not seeing what makes her more powerful.

The Century Babies and the Century Spirits are different. I believe it was revealed in an issue of Planetary that the Century Babies as a whole were created by forces above the multiverse to safeguard creation. The regular Century Babies like Elijah Snow and Axel Brass are immortal. The Century Spirits like Jenny Sparks and Jenny Quantum have a fixed 100 year life span (but in Armageddon the Doctor revealed that if the Century Spirit is somehow killed before the 100 years is up, all life in that particular universe ends). She'd have to know about them because each Spirit is different, shaped by the century she's in. They're not all the same, it's not like the Doctor where each new Doctor has the memories and knowledge of all the previous ones.

I beg to differ, the "fixed" Century Babies are reincarnations of the one before them, Jenny Quantum was not born until Jenny Sparks died, so she would know about the dead ones because obviously they kept the cycle going.

They are part of a cycle, yes, but they're not full-blown reincarnations. Even they never met each other until Jenny thought of Infinite City, and then suddenly they had all met each other for centuries before that. She warped a cycle created by extramultiversal forces. And she wasn't even conscious of it until Jenny Sparks told her what she'd done.

they are part of a reincarnation cycle, which means they share the same spirit, on that level they are aware of each other, they never met before because no other among them experienced the Doctors ancestral whatever and this where she got the idea. You still seem to be trying to use her not being conscious of what she is doing as better showing than him because that means, look what she can do without trying, when in reality everything he does is done on the same level.

Their only commonality is that they are all the Spirits of their respective centuries. Jenny Sparks said they were all different in Revolution, and Habib once said Jenny Sparks was more like Jenny Q's mom rather than her precursor. Teleporting into the Garden of Ancestral Memory was something no other Century Baby or Spirit could do, since only the Doctors are allowed to enter. I'm willing to concede that Franklin and Jenny are equals in terms of power. However, in a fight I believe Jenny would win simply because she has more experience fighting powerful enemies.

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@CitizenBane said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@CitizenBane said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@CitizenBane said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@CitizenBane said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

So what, his younger self summoned three versions of himself and allowed him to have his abilities of Psilord (older version). How is her creating a dimension that only exists because she believes in it any different than a universe that created that only existed for the same reason? When he created his toon-verse he was not aware of it,the bad guy in the story was a manifestation of himself, as soon as he found that out, that reality ceased to be. Her busting the multiverse remains to be seen, as lesser beings (powerwise) have accomplished the same thing, it's really not that hard to do if you mess with the right forces, a reality warper on a cosmic scale should be able to do that as well, Jaspers and Wanda are two such a reality warpers and Franklin has greater potential than them both. Even Meggan using energy manipulation can discern spatial relations at infinite points if she made one mistake it would have caused univeral breakdown, this would have happened to 616, the prime universe which means all other universe would have followed thus the multiverse and she is not a reality warper or near his power, not making a comparison between universe and multiverse just making a point that you don't even have to be a reality warper to do stuff like that.

Jenny died and brought herself back to life through sheer force of will. The dimension she created was different from Franklin's universe because his universe only existed once he created it. Jenny's dimension (Infinite City) was revealed to have retroactively existed since the dawn of the Century Spirits, ages and ages before Jenny's birth. But Infinite City only came into being because Jenny wanted it to to. She essentially warped eternity relative to the WS universe. Jenny Fractal didn't mess with spatial relations, she tapped into the Bleed and started pulling all the universes of the multiverse into each other, so that planets and galaxies and such started invading other universes and damaging the integrity of the multiverse. As far as battles go, I don't believe Franklin has ever fought someone as powerful as himself. Jenny has fought the Doctor.

Did she bring herself back or was she just back because of reboot? Can you tell me the issues when Infinite City was created and it's retroactive existence is revealed, all I seem to getting is that she was taken there by a future self, I'm only seeing that it was created by her by people saying it on forums, and then not being questioned about it. Even though he hasn't done anything like that with the scope of his powers I don't see how it wouldn't be possible, he can create universes and he can time travel, put them together and he could duplicate that feat. As for the multiverse thing, I don't see how that is any different than causing a breakdown by manipulating spatial relations, planets, galaxies and universes invading each other seems to deal in spatial relations as they are not where they are supposed to be and thus threaten existence. When you mentioned it, it seems as if you were saying she was just doing it, which is something else that I believe would be in the scope of his power, she used the bleed, which is the space between universes I really don't see how this is beyond his power either then, seems very similar to the Beyond that Meggan can tap. Franklins dream-self didn't fight, but beat Mepshisto in his own realm with a few words, no small feat. I think you're trying to build a case that makes her more powerful, I don't think either of them is more powerful than the other. You said she absorbed a universe, and it turns out it was a miniature universe and is the engine of the Carrier, and nothing to show that she survived doing it.

No, she brought herself back to life and displaced the consciousness of her twin. Infinite City was created (or rather, first seen) in The Authority: Prime, and the future self was revealed to have actually just been an aspect of Jenny's mind, not someone who was actually from the future. When she got there, every Century Spirit who'd ever existed was there, even though Jenny had never met or heard of any of them she had brought them all there without even knowing about it. It wasn't a miniature universe, it was a newly born one that powered the Carrier. It was basically a baby universe that was still large enough to overwrite the entire WS universe if it was released. She was supposed to eventually resurface (she even told the Doctor that she would) but before that the Wildstorm imprint closed down with the World's End event. She did collapse one of her universes while she was inside it and come to no harm.?

Aren't the Century Babies part of something far larger than the individuals that make them up as a group? Why would she have to know about them? They existed since the dawn of time, and apparently they were always there. They would have existed whether she did or not, they seem to be very much like the Avatars that Aang can speak too, since they are all really just old incarnations of her, she isn't unique she is part of a cycle, she is the reincarnation of the others, they will always be with her, their powers did not involve the same forces as hers did so there was no way for that dimension to manifest anyway. As far as the universe thing is concerned it's more semantics than anything else, Franklin created a baby universe, she absorbed one. The same forces that created one are the same forces that are in an absorbed one, she didn't survive it whatever kind of universe we call it. Franklin was inside his Toon-verse when he ended it and was fine too. I'm still not seeing what makes her more powerful.

The Century Babies and the Century Spirits are different. I believe it was revealed in an issue of Planetary that the Century Babies as a whole were created by forces above the multiverse to safeguard creation. The regular Century Babies like Elijah Snow and Axel Brass are immortal. The Century Spirits like Jenny Sparks and Jenny Quantum have a fixed 100 year life span (but in Armageddon the Doctor revealed that if the Century Spirit is somehow killed before the 100 years is up, all life in that particular universe ends). She'd have to know about them because each Spirit is different, shaped by the century she's in. They're not all the same, it's not like the Doctor where each new Doctor has the memories and knowledge of all the previous ones.

I beg to differ, the "fixed" Century Babies are reincarnations of the one before them, Jenny Quantum was not born until Jenny Sparks died, so she would know about the dead ones because obviously they kept the cycle going.

They are part of a cycle, yes, but they're not full-blown reincarnations. Even they never met each other until Jenny thought of Infinite City, and then suddenly they had all met each other for centuries before that. She warped a cycle created by extramultiversal forces. And she wasn't even conscious of it until Jenny Sparks told her what she'd done.

they are part of a reincarnation cycle, which means they share the same spirit, on that level they are aware of each other, they never met before because no other among them experienced the Doctors ancestral whatever and this where she got the idea. You still seem to be trying to use her not being conscious of what she is doing as better showing than him because that means, look what she can do without trying, when in reality everything he does is done on the same level.

Their only commonality is that they are all the Spirits of their respective centuries. Jenny Sparks said they were all different in Revolution, and Habib once said Jenny Sparks was more like Jenny Q's mom rather than her precursor. Teleporting into the Garden of Ancestral Memory was something no other Century Baby or Spirit could do, since only the Doctors are allowed to enter. I'm willing to concede that Franklin and Jenny are equals in terms of power. However, in a fight I believe Jenny would win simply because she has more experience fighting powerful enemies.

Imperiex,Spectre.....etc

Dr. Fate or Batman with a yellow lantern ring.

@Stronger said:

Imperiex,Spectre.....etc

Nope and probably not.

@Night Thrasher said:

@Stronger said:

Imperiex,Spectre.....etc

Nope and probably not.

Franklin is not beating the Spectre.

Mxy

Spectre would kill Franklin easily, so would Mxy.

@CitizenBane said:

@Night Thrasher said:

@Stronger said:

Imperiex,Spectre.....etc

Nope and probably not.

Franklin is not beating the Spectre.

Depends on which Franklin and which Spectre...At his most powerful Franklin could take Spectre at his average showings.

@Night Thrasher said:

@CitizenBane said:

@Night Thrasher said:

@Stronger said:

Imperiex,Spectre.....etc

Nope and probably not.

Franklin is not beating the Spectre.

Depends on which Franklin and which Spectre...At his most powerful Franklin could take Spectre at his average showings.

Now I'm just curious. What do you consider to be Spectre "average showings"?

@CitizenBane said:

@Night Thrasher said:

@CitizenBane said:

@Night Thrasher said:

@Stronger said:

Imperiex,Spectre.....etc

Nope and probably not.

Franklin is not beating the Spectre.

Depends on which Franklin and which Spectre...At his most powerful Franklin could take Spectre at his average showings.

Now I'm just curious. What do you consider to be Spectre "average showings"?

Lately it hasn't been great. I'm thinking Infinite Crisis Spectre. That Spectre would lose to Franklin. IMO he's jobbed a lot lately.

@Night Thrasher said:

@CitizenBane said:

@Night Thrasher said:

@CitizenBane said:

@Night Thrasher said:

@Stronger said:

Imperiex,Spectre.....etc

Nope and probably not.

Franklin is not beating the Spectre.

Depends on which Franklin and which Spectre...At his most powerful Franklin could take Spectre at his average showings.

Now I'm just curious. What do you consider to be Spectre "average showings"?

Lately it hasn't been great. I'm thinking Infinite Crisis Spectre. That Spectre would lose to Franklin. IMO he's jobbed a lot lately.

You realize Infinite Crisis Spectre, by which I presume you mean the version seen in Day of Vengeance and Dead Again, is the weakest possible version of Spectre? And thus not an average showing? And that even in that form, he was still wreaking havoc across entire dimensions as a side-effect of his power?

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the "Spectre jobs therefore X could beat him" statements usually comes from people who have read minimal content featuring Spectre. No offense.

@CitizenBane said:

@Night Thrasher said:

@CitizenBane said:

@Night Thrasher said:

@CitizenBane said:

@Night Thrasher said:

@Stronger said:

Imperiex,Spectre.....etc

Nope and probably not.

Franklin is not beating the Spectre.

Depends on which Franklin and which Spectre...At his most powerful Franklin could take Spectre at his average showings.

Now I'm just curious. What do you consider to be Spectre "average showings"?

Lately it hasn't been great. I'm thinking Infinite Crisis Spectre. That Spectre would lose to Franklin. IMO he's jobbed a lot lately.

You realize Infinite Crisis Spectre, by which I presume you mean the version seen in Day of Vengeance and Dead Again, is the weakest possible version of Spectre? And thus not an average showing? And that even in that form, he was still wreaking havoc across entire dimensions as a side-effect of his power?

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the "Spectre jobs therefore X could beat him" usually comes from people who have read minimal content featuring Spectre. No offense.

I haven't read a lot of Spectre to be honest. But, from what I've read and just going through various "respect threads" and getting some knowledge of him, I think he jobs a lot. My logic wasn't X showing was weak therefore B beats him.

It was more like average showings (A) versus average showing (B). At peak levels I'm would probably lean Spectre but I haven't really seen it outside of the Silver Age. I'm seeing the Universe creating Franklin versus God's Hand that got smacked down by magically enhanced Captain Marvel.

I would say Michael or Lucifer could take him, and I know Spectre is supposed to somewhere above or below that level. But I just don't see it. IMO.

BTW...congrats on the Community Star

maybe...

@Night Thrasher said:

I haven't read a lot of Spectre to be honest. But, from what I've read and just going through various "respect threads" and getting some knowledge of him

I never thought otherwise.

My logic wasn't X showing was weak therefore B beats him.

Then what was it? You said the Spectre's average showings were below Franklin's level, and yet your idea of Spectre's average showings come from his weakest possible incarnation. So where was your logic being applied here? Because those stories are not average showings.

I'm seeing the Universe creating Franklin versus God's Hand that got smacked down by magically enhanced Captain Marvel.

You have listed Franklin's best feat ever (never mind the fact that the Spectre has recreated the entire DCU from nothing) and you think that's an average showing to be weighed against the Spectre's average showings? I could just as easily say that I'm seeing Dimension Busting God's Hand vs Universe Creating Franklin that got smacked down by a single Celestial, who was not even on Galactus' level, forget about the Spectre.

I would say Michael or Lucifer could take him

You realize Mike and Lucy are astronomically more powerful than even 10 Franklin's, right? Yeah, they could take him.

I know Spectre is supposed to somewhere above or below that level. But I just don't see it. IMO.

Why?

@CitizenBane: Franklin's created universe(s). Plural. Meaning it's not a one-off showing. I'm not arguing the Spectre power level, it's more of the actual showings that gets me. Going from his 1992 series onward it's not really there for me. I seen him job more than anything. He's become DC's version of Galactus. If you create a new character and want to show how powerful he(she) is then have them beat up the Spectre.

Question, how durable is Franklin against psionics?

@Outside_85 said:

Question, how durable is Franklin against psionics?

might be pretty durable, seeing how he stopped the mad celestials attempt to mind rape him

as a child

@Night Thrasher said:

@CitizenBane: Franklin's created universe(s). Plural. Meaning it's not a one-off showing.

Ok? It is still the highest showing he's got. It's not like he's had his powers removed and been turned into a vegetable by a ray gun. It's not like he's ever been KO'd by a lone Celestial. It's not like he's ever been kidnapped and held hostage by Onslaught. It's not like he lost his powers with the resurrection of Galactus. Oh wait.........all of those things have happened. But let's just forget about them, because Franklin creating universes is obviously his daily gig.

I'm not arguing the Spectre power level, it's more of the actual showings that gets me. Going from his 1992 series onward it's not really there for me. I seen him job more than anything. He's become DC's version of Galactus. If you create a new character and want to show how powerful he(she) is then have them beat up the Spectre.

This makes little sense. Do you have some examples to throw out to show why it's really not there for you?

@CitizenBane: Like I said...I'm not arguing that Spectre should stomp. It's the showings that really hold it back for me. It's kinda like how the Eagles were supposed to be the best team in the NFL in the preseason but the Giants won the Superbowl. On paper I would pick the Spectre everytime. But, going by what I've seen it's closer than that. If it's the version of Spectre that's been showing up for about the last ten to fifteen years in the DCU then it's close. The Spectre before that however, I'm would go with mean green.

Kinda like Daredevil versus Rhino. Rhino should win on paper. However, Rhino jobs all the time so logically I'd pick Daredevil. All things even...Spectre. Going by what's been shown lately...55/45 one way or the other.

Superman

@CitizenBane said:

vs Universe Creating Franklin that got smacked down by a single Celestial, who was not even on Galactus' level, forget about the Spectre.

smacked by who?

he recently just beat three celestials

who defined him as " beyond omega" "anomaly" and a universal warper/threat

and is essentially destined to witness the end/beginning of the universe and apparently become an abstract

and those celestials probably were around galactus's level, for starters he was "well fed"

but then got k.o'd

he even revived galactus

my money's on spectre, seeing how he is supposedly equivalent to the living tribunal

but don't try to discredit franklins character by such nonsense

@Night Thrasher said:

@CitizenBane: Like I said...I'm not arguing that Spectre should stomp. It's the showings that really hold it back for me. It's kinda like how the Eagles were supposed to be the best team in the NFL in the preseason but the Giants won the Superbowl. On paper I would pick the Spectre everytime. But, going by what I've seen it's closer than that. If it's the version of Spectre that's been showing up for about the last ten to fifteen years in the DCU then it's close. The Spectre before that however, I'm would go with mean green.

Kinda like Daredevil versus Rhino. Rhino should win on paper. However, Rhino jobs all the time so logically I'd pick Daredevil. All things even...Spectre. Going by what's been shown lately...55/45 one way or the other.

Again, you keep going on and on about "what's been shown lately" and "average showings".............exactly what "average showings" are you talking about? What are these incidents that convinced you that Spectre jobs all the time?

@X_insignia1 said:

@CitizenBane said:

vs Universe Creating Franklin that got smacked down by a single Celestial, who was not even on Galactus' level, forget about the Spectre.

smacked by who?

he recently just beat three celestials with galactus

who defined him as " beyond omega" "anomaly" and a universal warper/threat

and is essentially destined to witness the end/beginning of the universe and apparently become an abstract

and those celestials probably were around galactus's level, for starters he was "well fed"

but then got k.o'd

my money's on spectre, seeing how he is supposedly equivalent to the living tribunal

but don't try to discredit franklins character to display he as a bug

..........that is a future adult version of Franklin..........take a look at when this thread was made and then tell me what version you thought the OP had in mind......

For god's sake......

The actual kid Franklin Richards was KO'd by a single Celestial blast in FF #15.

@CitizenBane: Give me something Post Zero Hour as an example. I'll read it and let you know.

also not to mention, he temporarily made galactus his herald

@Night Thrasher said:

@CitizenBane: Give me something Post Zero Hour as an example. I'll read it and let you know.

A Spectre showing post Zero Hour? There's Day of Judgement, his entire fourth volume, Rebirth, Day of Vengeance, Dead Again, Tales of the Unexpected and Revelations. Pick one and roll with it.

@X_insignia1 said:

also not to mention, he temporarily made galactus his herald

@CitizenBane said:

..........that is a future adult version of Franklin..........take a look at when this thread was made and then tell me what version you thought the OP had in mind......

For god's sake......

The actual kid Franklin Richards was KO'd by a single Celestial blast in FF #15.