#1 Edited by highaccuser (1652 posts) - - Show Bio

I have different beliefs about how the order of cosmic beings work, and i made this post to show that. Please put everyone you believe exceeds the gauntlet (save presence, TOAA, and LT-their to obvious).

Edit: This the CLASSIC gauntlet, not the heavily stupified current one.

#2 Posted by Nightflash (713 posts) - - Show Bio

heart of the universe

#3 Posted by the_mighty_Beyonder (701 posts) - - Show Bio

Marvel Character :

1 - The One Above All

2 - The Fulcrum (possibly)

3 - Tiamut the Dreaming Celestial (possibly)

4 - The Beyonder (Pre retcon)

5 - Thanos with the Heart Of The Universe

6 - Molecule Man (Pre retcon)

7 - Protege

8 - Living Tribunal

9 - Sise-Neg

10 - Nemesis

11 - The Alien Entity

#4 Posted by dondave (26495 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_mighty_Beyonder: I don't think any Celestail is beating the infinty gauntlet

#5 Posted by logy5000 (5516 posts) - - Show Bio

Anything above multi-universal level.

#6 Posted by the_mighty_Beyonder (701 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave said:

@the_mighty_Beyonder: I don't think any Celestail is beating the infinty gauntlet

i said possibly, because Tiamut has transcended to the level of Fulcrum as Fulcrum said himself.

#7 Posted by Killemall (16955 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_mighty_Beyonder said:

3 - Tiamut the Dreaming Celestial (possibly)

9 - Sise-Neg

10 - Nemesis

11 - The Alien Entity

Yeah none of those are above Infinity Gauntlet. At least not the 616 counterpart.

Also Tiamut thing seems a little misunderstood.

Here Tiamut talks to Watcher and its made clear he consider him much like a robot , a creation of Fulcrum who just does what he is told, although he is now having few doubts.

Then there is him meeting and talking to Fulcrum

So all he did in the talk with Fulcrum was showed a free will, to actually question Fulcrum and care about what is happening to Earth. I think people are over-reading, "You are no longer by device, in shattering a bond you have proven a power equal to my own".

If that was to show him being equal to Fulcrum , then by the same logic any celestial who successfully develop a concise would be Fulcrum's equal?

But then even then the point is moot because the next time Tiamut appeared in X-men comics, he was back to his robot form getting lobomotised by Mr. Sinister.

#8 Posted by Killemall (16955 posts) - - Show Bio

@logy5000 said:

Anything above multi-universal level.

I dont agree, a being who is just multi-universe wont be able to with an omni-dimensional attack, originating from 616 have it go all the way outside marvel multiverse to Beyonder's realm, which is extra dimensional and wreck shop it.

Also Eternity, Infinity at the very least are multi-universal on their own accord, perhaps even multiversal given the powers they have shown, and IG had them helpless with by 1 move.

The only one shown to be above IG was Living Tribunal, because he was representative of TOAA, one whose powers dwarf that of IG (stated explicitly on panel).

IG makes you a god, as godly as it gets, and you are second only to the true representative of TOAA .

#9 Posted by logy5000 (5516 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall: Hmmm. Well then, my answer changes to: multiversal level or above.

#10 Posted by Killemall (16955 posts) - - Show Bio

@logy5000 said:

@Killemall: Hmmm. Well then, my answer changes to: multiversal level or above.

That seems more fair. His (@the_mighty_Beyonder: ) list seems very through as far as marvel in concerned.

1 - The One Above All

2 - The Fulcrum

3 - The Beyonder (Pre retcon)

5 - Thanos with the Heart Of The Universe

6 - Molecule Man (Pre retcon)

7 - Protege

8 - Living Tribunal

I would likely add Infinity Being (the true infinity being and not the weakened counterpart Nemesis) and i would add Scanthan on the list.

Apart from them, given the description of powers no one else should be above IG at least from Marvel.

#11 Posted by logy5000 (5516 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall: For DC what about:

Presence

Great Evil Beast

Lucifer Morningstar

Mr. Mxyzptlk

Mandrakk

COIE Anti-Monitor

Thought Robot

#12 Posted by Killemall (16955 posts) - - Show Bio

@logy5000 said:

@Killemall: For DC what about:

Presence

Great Evil Beast

Lucifer Morningstar

Mr. Mxyzptlk

Mandrakk

COIE Anti-Monitor

Thought Robot

Presence and Great Evil Beast, certainly one is the supreme being the other while questionable did give us the feel that he riviled Presence's power that should dwarf the IG.

Lucifer possibly.

The rest not so much.

Mandrakk, Mxy and Thought Robot seems weird to be included to this list.

#13 Posted by Evil Incarnate (3441 posts) - - Show Bio

Isn't anyone with the Heart of the Universe above the IG or is this only specific to Thanos?

#14 Posted by logy5000 (5516 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall: But all the guys you highlighted are multiversal.

#15 Posted by Evil Incarnate (3441 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall said:

@logy5000 said:

@Killemall: For DC what about:

Presence

Great Evil Beast

Lucifer Morningstar

Mr. Mxyzptlk

Mandrakk

COIE Anti-Monitor

Thought Robot

Presence and Great Evil Beast, certainly one is the supreme being the other while questionable did give us the feel that he riviled Presence's power that should dwarf the IG.

Lucifer possibly.

The rest not so much.

Mandrakk, Mxy and Thought Robot seems weird to be included to this list.

Wouldn't practically anyone be above the IG in DC? IIRC the IG doesn't work there...

#16 Posted by the_mighty_Beyonder (701 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall said:

@the_mighty_Beyonder said:

3 - Tiamut the Dreaming Celestial (possibly)

9 - Sise-Neg

10 - Nemesis

11 - The Alien Entity

Yeah none of those are above Infinity Gauntlet. At least not the 616 counterpart.

Also Tiamut thing seems a little misunderstood.

Here Tiamut talks to Watcher and its made clear he consider him much like a robot , a creation of Fulcrum who just does what he is told, although he is now having few doubts.

Then there is him meeting and talking to Fulcrum

So all he did in the talk with Fulcrum was showed a free will, to actually question Fulcrum and care about what is happening to Earth. I think people are over-reading, "You are no longer by device, in shattering a bond you have proven a power equal to my own".

If that was to show him being equal to Fulcrum , then by the same logic any celestial who successfully develop a concise would be Fulcrum's equal?

But then even then the point is moot because the next time Tiamut appeared in X-men comics, he was back to his robot form getting lobomotised by Mr. Sinister.

it's pretty clear to me, and to any reader i think, Fulcrum said it with clear words :

"i have watched other celestials change and evolve into

beings of greater power.

some have come close"

then he says : "You are no longer by device, in shattering a bond you have proven

a power equal to my own"

he is talking about power as well as freewill it's obvious.

then what happend in uncanny X-men doesn't contradict anything, did Tiamut talk or move or say something in that arc? i think it was just an empty shell with residues of celestial power.

#17 Posted by lilben42 (2487 posts) - - Show Bio

@logy5000: The spectre?

#18 Posted by Killemall (16955 posts) - - Show Bio

@Evil Incarnate said:

Isn't anyone with the Heart of the Universe above the IG or is this only specific to Thanos?

HOTU is the power of the god (TOAA). And whatever feat Thanos did was all attributed to HOTU and its powers not Thanos. So yeah anyone who has HOTU should be just above IG, by a huge margin. Its just a plot device, and going by Starlin words in his interview from Newsarama, the most powerful power source created thus far in marvel canon.

@Evil Incarnate said:

Wouldn't practically anyone be above the IG in DC? IIRC the IG doesn't work there...

Alternate reality IG have always been universal. Fantastic Four: War of 4 Cities demonstrated that. Hickman, recently (only yesterday) confirmed that in formspring. IG from 616 is different, as it has actually worked in Ultraverse. In fact few gems that gained sentience started creating universes after universes on their own.

@logy5000 said:

@Killemall: But all the guys you highlighted are multiversal.

I think you misunderstand. In order to beat IG you have to , at the least, be Multiversal or above. Not everyone who has been multiversal would beat IG. Furthermore, apart from World Funniest, Mxy hasnt been shown to be multiversal. But if you are using World's Funniest version, which is non canon, he should be even above Michael and Lucifer individually, who i still believe are above IG.

#19 Posted by Killemall (16955 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_mighty_Beyonder said:

it's pretty clear to me, and to any reader i think, Fulcrum said it with clear words :

"i have watched other celestials change and evolve into

beings of greater power.

some have come close"

So what watcher, and celestials are beings of great powers - agree. Power close to Fulcrum, who was said to be all powerful? Of course not.

Some have come close - come close to gaining sentience.

then he says : "You are no longer by device, in shattering a bond you have proven

a power equal to my own"

he is talking about power as well as freewill it's obvious.

You are now longer my device - of course thus far him and all celestial were blindly following him while finally he finally got his sentience.

So you are really saying, a free will (and celestial powers are based on cosmic energy and not free will, never has been), shows he ascended to power level of a god? Really

then what happend in uncanny X-men doesn't contradict anything, did Tiamut talk or move or say something in that arc? i think it was just an empty shell with residues of celestial power.

Nothing on the issues even remotely elluded it was an empty shell, really looks like your own version of it. Furthermore, why would an empty cell of a celestial, with power in it (which seems weird) crash on earth.

Furthermore, isnt just standing there and doing nothing is what Tiamut has always done?

#20 Posted by 7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning (3578 posts) - - Show Bio

Anything that is outside and BEYOND time, space, reality and dream:

So Dormammu and every other extradimensional being.

#21 Posted by Killemall (16955 posts) - - Show Bio

@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning said:

Anything that is outside and BEYOND time, space, reality and dream:

So Dormammu and every other extradimensional being.

Based on.

So Dormammu cant beat even Eternity, despite him not attack Dormammu at all but is somehow above IG? Love to see you argue around that.

Also what has extradimension got to do with anything. You make it sound like Extradimension is some sort of wow thing, it isnt. Extradimension are universe that dont have a defined hierarchy (the cosmic compass).

#22 Posted by 7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning (3578 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall said:

@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning said:

Anything that is outside and BEYOND time, space, reality and dream:

So Dormammu and every other extradimensional being.

Based on.

So Dormammu cant beat even Eternity, despite him not attack Dormammu at all but is somehow above IG? Love to see you argue around that.

Also what has extradimension got to do with anything. You make it sound like Extradimension is some sort of wow thing, it isnt. Extradimension are universe that dont have a defined hierarchy (the cosmic compass).

Dormammu can beat Eternity, but let's say for instance that Dormammu was his 100% former self (The Entire Faltine Reality), he would dwarf Eternity so much since the Faltine Sphere is larger in essence than the Eternity Sphere. The Cosmic Compass is nothing special. Slorioth almost wrecked Eternity's Sphere easily just being present in his sphere, while Slorioth LOST against Dormammu in the Dark Dimension.

The Only thing that is special about Eternity is TIME itself exists in it. He is afterall the embodiment of time.

#23 Posted by Killemall (16955 posts) - - Show Bio

@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning said:

Dormammu can beat Eternity, but let's say for instance that Dormammu was his 100% former self (The Entire Faltine Reality), he would dwarf Eternity so much since the Faltine Sphere is larger in essence than the Eternity Sphere.

Based on?

They have fought twice,the first one Dormammu couldnt win, the second one he had powers of Umar, the same power Dr. Strange used to beat Dormammu with the power of Eternity , so it was made pretty clearly, for whatever reason Umar's power was written as an uber plot device.

The Cosmic Compass is nothing special. Slorioth almost wrecked Eternity's Sphere easily just being present in his sphere, while Slorioth LOST against Dormammu in the Dark Dimension.

Issue number? Scan? of the latter? Coz there has to be a context.

The Only thing that is special about Eternity is TIME itself exists in it. He is afterall the embodiment of time.

And? The only thing impressive about Dormammu is he is the ruler of the Dark Dimension, thats not an argument mate. Also you have to give a good reason why Dormammu can beat a weilder of IG, something solid. Anything?

#24 Posted by the_mighty_Beyonder (701 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall: Fulcrum said clearly, they evolve in power, cosmic power or not, they evole in power, and Tiamut has evolved to a level equal to Fulcrum.

in Uncanny X-men it's an empty shell, if not, how could Mr Sinister blow up his head? the head of a celestial? it makes no sense if it was the real Tiamut.

#25 Posted by 7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning (3578 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall said:

@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning said:

Dormammu can beat Eternity, but let's say for instance that Dormammu was his 100% former self (The Entire Faltine Reality), he would dwarf Eternity so much since the Faltine Sphere is larger in essence than the Eternity Sphere.

Based on?

They have fought twice,the first one Dormammu couldnt win, the second one he had powers of Umar, the same power Dr. Strange used to beat Dormammu with the power of Eternity , so it was made pretty clearly, for whatever reason Umar's power was written as an uber plot device.

The Cosmic Compass is nothing special. Slorioth almost wrecked Eternity's Sphere easily just being present in his sphere, while Slorioth LOST against Dormammu in the Dark Dimension.

Issue number? Scan? of the latter? Coz there has to be a context.

The Only thing that is special about Eternity is TIME itself exists in it. He is afterall the embodiment of time.

And? The only thing impressive about Dormammu is he is the ruler of the Dark Dimension, thats not an argument mate. Also you have to give a good reason why Dormammu can beat a weilder of IG, something solid. Anything?

The 1st time Dormammu did prove his win.

He destroyed Eternity's entire space, but didn't think twice about using his powers to attack time itself... Then in Later issues, this was proven that Eternity is co-existent with Infinity (Space), Thus space-time continuum reality. So, yes... Dormammu did destroy Eternity's physical self, but the essence of time still remained and therefore Eternity still existed and recovered... But the same thing can be said about Dormammu in the way that Dormammu has recovered. Also, remember, Dormammu had Eternity's sphere at the grasp of his hand. Eternity couldn't defeat Dormammu in extradimensional plane; he had to suck up Dormammu inside himself to do anything effective towards him.

The 2nd time:

Dormammu used Umar (who is also himself with a split personality) to counter off the essence of time while he (Dormammu) changes the essence of space into his own image. And he has! Umar was the plot device, but it wasn't just her. Dr. Strange had every other help through his Principality so Dormammu wasn't a match (never was) against Strange along with his counter self (Umar) working together. Umar wants Dormammu to consentrate on bigger things (the Extradimension) while Dormammu wants to play with toys (the multiverse).

#26 Posted by 7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning (3578 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall said:

@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning said:

The Cosmic Compass is nothing special. Slorioth almost wrecked Eternity's Sphere easily just being present in his sphere, while Slorioth LOST against Dormammu in the Dark Dimension.

Issue number? Scan? of the latter? Coz there has to be a context.

The Only thing that is special about Eternity is TIME itself exists in it. He is afterall the embodiment of time.

And? The only thing impressive about Dormammu is he is the ruler of the Dark Dimension, thats not an argument mate. Also you have to give a good reason why Dormammu can beat a weilder of IG, something solid. Anything?

Dormammu created his own versions of the Infinity Guantlet and everything else. He created Thor, Odin, Dr. Strange, Hulk, Wolverine, Thanos, Spiderman, Galactus and all other characters with all the same power levels. So yes, he created the Infinity Gems too, (MINUS THE EGO GEM --- Since the Ego Gem is in the Malibu Multiverse)

For former question: Look for the Slorioth Arc. It's a part of the Seven Sphere.

#27 Posted by Killemall (16955 posts) - - Show Bio

@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning said:

The 1st time Dormammu did prove his win.

He destroyed Eternity's entire space, but didn't think twice about using his powers to attack time itself... Then in Later issues, this was proven that Eternity is co-existent with Infinity (Space), Thus space-time continuum reality. So, yes... Dormammu did destroy Eternity's physical self, but the essence of time still remained and therefore Eternity still existed and recovered... But the same thing can be said about Dormammu in the way that Dormammu has recovered. Also, remember, Dormammu had Eternity's sphere at the grasp of his hand. Eternity couldn't defeat Dormammu in extradimensional plane; he had to suck up Dormammu inside himself to do anything effective towards him.

No he did not. I posted the scans before to you, doing so again.

Strange Tales 147

So no point in the fight does Eternity attack Dormammu, he asks Dormammu not to attack him, but Dormammu attacks and both disappear, what happened is left unclear.

Another reference to this fight, when Eternity is freed from Nightmare he says he was captured by Nightmare after his fight with Dormammu

Few issues before this Dr. Strange gets to talk to Eternity in a dream where Eternity says Dormammu could never have beaten him, makes sense to me:

Defenders Volume 3, ISsue 02 Eternity recall Dormammu's previous meeting him as dismissiable

to me:

Anyone reading this its pretty Clearly Eternity was NOT defeated by Dormammu.

The 2nd time:

Dormammu used Umar (who is also himself with a split personality) to counter off the essence of time while he (Dormammu) changes the essence of space into his own image. And he has! Umar was the plot device, but it wasn't just her. Dr. Strange had every other help through his Principality so Dormammu wasn't a match (never was) against Strange along with his counter self (Umar) working together. Umar wants Dormammu to consentrate on bigger things (the Extradimension) while Dormammu wants to play with toys (the multiverse).

Prove the bolded part.

Issue no, scans, bio, anything that suggest Umar is Dormammu himself?

The rest he did using Eternity powers not his own.

Also prove anything that suggest that?

Dormammu wanted to conquere multiverse, so did so using Eternity powers, using a plot device, not on his own accord.

Same eternity, infinity, galactus and other abstract that were stopped on a mere whim by IG.

So i ask again, based on what apart from a fan interpretation is Dormammu even half as powerful as IG, let alone above it.

@the_mighty_Beyonder said:

@Killemall: Fulcrum said clearly, they evolve in power, cosmic power or not, they evole in power, and Tiamut has evolved to a level equal to Fulcrum.

Thats what i am saying it doesnt make sense, its likely just being sentience. How do you becomes equal to god just because you have a free will, from a mere celestial ? Dont see a connection.

in Uncanny X-men it's an empty shell, if not, how could Mr Sinister blow up his head? the head of a celestial? it makes no sense if it was the real Tiamut.

Ok why would an empty shell of a celestial, appear on Earth, and have celestial come retrieve him later? Doesnt make sense.

And if it was an empty shell how did Sinister absorb its powers, he even used the dimisinigh powers from the same celestial, stored in his creation engine, that he used to temporarily beat P5.

#28 Posted by Killemall (16955 posts) - - Show Bio

@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning said:

Dormammu created his own versions of the Infinity Guantlet and everything else. He created Thor, Odin, Dr. Strange, Hulk, Wolverine, Thanos, Spiderman, Galactus and all other characters with all the same power levels. So yes, he created the Infinity Gems too, (MINUS THE EGO GEM --- Since the Ego Gem is in the Malibu Multiverse)

I dont recall Dormammu ever creating the infinity gauntlet in Defenders volume 3, would you be able to quote me the issue or scan when he did so?

Also that is NOT Dormammu's power never have been, it was the power he stole from Eternity, not sure why you would exclude something that huge, when the scan of him standing in front of eternity is from an issue immediately prior to that.

For former question: Look for the Slorioth Arc. It's a part of the Seven Sphere.

Firstly you are assuming all extra dimensional entities are same power level, no they are not. And as far as i remember, its based on scans posted by MR. Masters, Solarith threatens eternity, Vishanti being helpless call upon the most powerful mystical being from ALL realities, LT appears .

Doesnt change the fact that IG is still above every God of 7 Spheres.

Also an extra dimensional universe was destroyed by one omnidirectional blast from Thanos orginating all the way from 616. So yeah, not very convincing

#29 Edited by MrMaster (44 posts) - - Show Bio

In Marvel: Nothing can defeat a piss-less 616 IG ... that's not at-least = to the LT.

Simple.

As for "beyond space/time" ... IG/Thanos' 'Actuality Ripple' billowed out of 616 across the myriad planes/realities devastating everything as it passed. It finally went Beyond "space-time" and crashed its way into the Beyond Realm (unheard of) where it continued to ravage whatever it touched.

The impressive thing here is,

... that the Beyond Realm (home of the BeyonderS) is so vast it literally "dwindles into insignificance All That Is"

That's All of Eternity my friends, the embodiment of everything across all levels of creation ... insignificant!

The IG affected reality withIN the Beyond Realm. Again, that's unheard of.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/14863597/IG_beyond_Universe_2.jpg.html

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/14863598/IG_beyond_Universe_3.jpg.html

This feat took place in the Infinity Gauntlet series (I have the relevant scans if needed) and was retold here.

#30 Posted by beautifulrevery (1457 posts) - - Show Bio

I've heard rumblings that Classic Dr. Strange negated the power of the IG twice. Can someone confirm this or what? I feel as though would know

#31 Edited by MrMaster (44 posts) - - Show Bio

@beautifulrevery said:

I've heard rumblings that Classic Dr. Strange negated the power of the IG twice. Can someone confirm this or what? I feel as though would know

That's false. He never negated the IG once before let-alone twice. Warlock was using the Gems on Strange individually and never with the intent to hurt him, but rather convince him. The only time Warlock was going to really hurt Strange was near the end when he used the Power Gem ALONE on him. Mind you, Strange came Prepped with All his Talismans' combined as one, and still he was going to be obliterated almost immediately after a moments' struggle. Strange peered into the future real quick and saw this as the definitive inevitability. Luckily simultaneously he reached Warlock through the Soul Gem before being annihilated by the Power Gem alone.

#32 Posted by beautifulrevery (1457 posts) - - Show Bio

@MrMaster said:

@beautifulrevery said:

I've heard rumblings that Classic Dr. Strange negated the power of the IG twice. Can someone confirm this or what? I feel as though would know

That's false. He never negated the IG once before let-alone twice. Warlock was using the Gems on Strange individually and never with the intent to hurt him, but rather convince him. The only time Warlock was going to really hurt Strange was near the end when he used the Power Gem ALONE on him. Mind you, Strange came Prepped with All his Talismans' combined as one, and still he was going to be obliterated almost immediately after a moments' struggle. Strange peered into the future real quick and saw this as the definitive inevitability. Luckily simultaneously he reached Warlock through the Soul Gem before being annihilated by the Power Gem alone.

Ok, thank you for clearing that up. It's been going around lately and I hadn't read that and therefore wasn't able to determine whether it was true or not.

#33 Posted by jeanroygrant (20191 posts) - - Show Bio

LT.

#34 Posted by highaccuser (1652 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall

You put mandrakk and thought armor. Am i the only one who thinks that "jar multiverse" wasent the actual multiverse, but a synthesetic replica of sorts? I always thought the monitors called the multiverse a germ because there so egotistical. As for COIE anti-monitor, IG isnt merely universal in scale, its just universe bound. I believe Ig exceeds all monitors exponentially. and myx is not nearly this strong

#35 Posted by highaccuser (1652 posts) - - Show Bio

7AM

Eternity allows himself defeat. he is so amoral he dosent care about dying.

Sorry killemall, a meant someone else

#36 Posted by Sethlol (1296 posts) - - Show Bio

I do.

#37 Posted by Living_Monstrosity (422 posts) - - Show Bio

Any being that has recreated Marvel should be able to be equal to or surpass the Infinity Gauntlet.

So aside from those like PR Beyonder and PR Molecule Man, Thanos with THOTI, or LT, I'd say...

1) FP Sise-Neg

2) Genis/Entropy

3) Alien Entity

That's about it.

#38 Posted by Floopay (7700 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall:

IIRC, wasn't the Infinity Gauntlet and all the Infinity Gems stated to be Universal aspects?

Therefore wouldn't anything that is on a power level higher than universal be more powerful? As in, anything Multiversal or Universal+.

A lot of extradimensional entities come to mind, obviously LT, Beyonder, Evil Owen Reece, Mad Jim Jaspers, Multi-Eternity, Jack the Bartender, Black Celestial Universe Galactus, etc. etc.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

#39 Posted by Nefarious (17622 posts) - - Show Bio

Squirrel Girl.

#40 Posted by ShootingNova (12941 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall said:

1 - The One Above All

2 - The Fulcrum

3 - The Beyonder (Pre retcon)

5 - Thanos with the Heart Of The Universe

6 - Molecule Man (Pre retcon)

7 - Protege

8 - Living Tribunal

Agreed, although we don't know whether the Fulcrum is TOAA (alternate name/form) or something similar.

#41 Posted by sunhawk (550 posts) - - Show Bio

Reed Richards and Victor von DOOM! working together with a day of prep and a box of paper clips.

#42 Posted by NeonGameWave (7204 posts) - - Show Bio

Pre Recton Beyonder

Thanos (HOTU)

#43 Posted by Killemall (16955 posts) - - Show Bio

@highaccuser said:

@Killemall

You put mandrakk and thought armor. Am i the only one who thinks that "jar multiverse" wasent the actual multiverse, but a synthesetic replica of sorts? I always thought the monitors called the multiverse a germ because there so egotistical. As for COIE anti-monitor, IG isnt merely universal in scale, its just universe bound. I believe Ig exceeds all monitors exponentially. and myx is not nearly this strong

Agreed.

@Floopay said:

@Killemall:

IIRC, wasn't the Infinity Gauntlet and all the Infinity Gems stated to be Universal aspects?

There is a IG in every universe yes, that doesnt change the scope of IG power, specially 616, which has operated far above universal.

Therefore wouldn't anything that is on a power level higher than universal be more powerful? As in, anything Multiversal or Universal+.

Well IG has operated above multiversal. During Warlock and the Infinity Watch 04 it was revealed that a unidirectional blast from IG, let loose by Thanos, destroyed Beyonder's realm. This is unheard of because, 616 is in the center of the multiverse from which all reality branch out, while Beyonder realm is an extra dimensional realm lying outside of marvel multiverse. And it was one uni-direction blast, not even the best one, that Thanos let loose, that went all the way from center of the marvel multiverse, to outside marvel multiverse and wrecked Beyonder Universe.

Furthermore, in Infinity Wars 05 Magus with incomplete IG (was missing the reality gem) was able to re-direct the ultimate nullifier back to Quasar, the same nullifier that has destroyed and re-created entire multiverse.

A lot of extradimensional entities come to mind, obviously LT, Beyonder, Evil Owen Reece, Mad Jim Jaspers, Multi-Eternity, Jack the Bartender, Black Celestial Universe Galactus, etc. etc.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

Living Tribunal is of course given. Beyonder and MM would depend on version. The rest wont win, at all.

And most of the entities you listed arent extra-dimensional .

#44 Posted by Killemall (16955 posts) - - Show Bio

@Living_Monstrosity said:

1) FP Sise-Neg

2) Genis/Entropy

3) Alien Entity

That's about it.

Why would you think anyone here would exceed IG? Sise Neg power level is hard to decide, but his on panel feat is re-creating big bang that created the universe, same with Alien Entity.

Genis/ Entropy was him using a big bang gun, to restart a big bang without entropy to mold him into Eternity.

#45 Posted by SirMethos (1269 posts) - - Show Bio

It depends on which version of the Infinity Gauntlet you're talking about. If you mean the original one, that came from Nemesis, then it's only those in the same general scope of power as The Living Tribunal that exceeds the IG. If you are talking about the IG after the retcon, where it became a merely universal object of power, then there are plenty of beings that exceeds it in power, since the post-retcon version of the IG, can't affect anything outside of its own universe.

Also, I don't see why people would put Scathan as even possibly exceeding either version of the IG, since he has never actually done anything that definitively proves he is on that level of power.

#46 Posted by Killemall (16955 posts) - - Show Bio

@SirMethos said:

It depends on which version of the Infinity Gauntlet you're talking about. If you mean the original one, that came from Nemesis, then it's only those in the same general scope of power as The Living Tribunal that exceeds the IG. If you are talking about the IG after the retcon, where it became a merely universal object of power, then there are plenty of beings that exceeds it in power, since the post-retcon version of the IG, can't affect anything outside of its own universe.

Infinity Gauntlet from 616 was never officially retconned. It was the power of Infinity Beings that created everything in Marvel universe. Memphisto 2010 bio actually still attributes his origin to the all powerful Infinity Beings.

Furthermore, we have seen IG from 616 operate outside 616.

Also, I don't see why people would put Scathan as even possibly exceeding either version of the IG, since he has never actually done anything that definitively proves he is on that level of power.

He was one of the most impressive feat. Protege who had copied the powers of Malevolence, Mephisto, Beyonder, GOTG, Hawkgod, Abstracts and Living Tribunal, was defeated because he gave him a thumbs down and even physically restrained him.

Furthermore, Marvel bio of 2007 collaborates all of this, that Protege nearly upsurped the power of LT and it was Scathan who saved the day.

So Scanthan should be above LT given he defeated someone with the power of LT, and saved LT

#47 Edited by Killemall (16955 posts) - - Show Bio

@beautifulrevery said:

I've heard rumblings that Classic Dr. Strange negated the power of the IG twice. Can someone confirm this or what? I feel as though would know

Master (@MrMaster: ) pretty much cleared it up for you, and not sure if you were aware but if i have question regarding cosmic being in Marvel i normally refer to him, so you got a good explanation from the source.

So everthing he said is well and true, if you are interested here are the relevant scans, in case someone tells you otherwise you can always refer to the official scans.

Doctor Strange Sorcerer Supreme 36

Furthermore, thats not the only time Dr. Strange faced Infinity Gauntlet.

Doctor Strange Sorcerer Supreme 33

Also if Dr. Strange was indeed capable of stopping the gauntlet, would heroes and abstracts fighting together against Thanos and losing be the wisest course of action? Wouldnt you expect hereos to just say, well Strange go stop the gauntlet.

Not to mention even in classic days Dr. Strange clearly addresses Eternity as his superior, someone who was completely and utterly helpless against IG. Dr. Strange isnt even close in terms of power level vs IG, dont let anyone tell you otherwise.

#48 Posted by SSJLozza (1527 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman Prime 1 million, The Phoenix force (at 100% power), Lucifer Morningstar, Elder God Demonbane, Lina Inverse, Morrigan Aensland, The Anti-Monitor, The Darkness and many more.

#49 Posted by Killemall (16955 posts) - - Show Bio

@SSJLozza said:

Superman Prime 1 million, The Phoenix force (at 100% power), Lucifer Morningstar, Elder God Demonbane, Lina Inverse, Morrigan Aensland, The Anti-Monitor, The Darkness and many more.

Really? I would love to see an explanation why. The bolded part is what i have read, would love to see an explantion of why anyone there should be above IG. Anti-Monitor at the very least is questionable, but The Phoenix force, i mean come on..

Also The Darkness, are we referring to DC or Image? One is the dark part of Presence called Great Evil Beast, the other is a primal force of nature that Jackie weilds, the latter would likely stomped based on what i have read (but then i have only read 35 issues on Darkness so far so would love to see an explanation on why you think otherwise).

#50 Posted by Bo88gdan (4374 posts) - - Show Bio

Goblin Force