Who could beat Dormammu

BARRED FROM USE

-Abstracts, Living Tribunal, Zom

-Non Marvel Characters

Batman

thanos and above would beat him. Possibly the Void. Dormammu jobs quite a bit.

God damn right.

I'm getting tired of all this threads about Dormammu......The answers are getting worse with the time.

Not even in your facfics. :)

Sure.....If you don't know the context then he does.

Yeah, Thanos isn't beating Dormmy.

Dormmy is above Thanos by a good margin

other demonic beings, black priest dr strange

I don't see Dorm taking down the Void. The guy is just too evil with no regrets. Genis-Vell wrecks, anyone Skyfather and above. Hulk thunder clap lol jk. There are quite a few.

No.....Really,what makes you think that? There's like two stories that everyone keep forgetting who shows Dormammu and Odin being equals.

Heck, even Dormammu's own bio from the Handbook of 1996 puts him at Odin's level.

@laylah: I would put them as equal at Odins base power. However, Odin has many ways to amp his powers, like when he took all of the powers of Asgard, both present and past, to fight the celestials. I think he has many ways to make himself more powerful. Also, the fact that Odin owned Mesphito in his own world (I believe it was here), puts Odin above Dorm IMO.

So what? It's not like Dormammu didn't drag the energies of his Dark Dimension before or even absorbed his alternate self, as well both Mordo and Umar. Heck, Dormammu can even amp his stats by worship.

IIRC Odin owing Mephisto in Hades is non-canon, but Dormammu did the same thing and even more during a comic called ''Hellcat''

I don't see why Odin is more powerful....

@laylah: it took a blast by the whole fourth host of celestials to take him down, he was uber powerful. Dorm doesn't have the best durability feats. He has some decent ones, but then he has some VERY low showings. Odin doesn't have low showings like him.

Odin has destroyed galaxies as a side effect in a fight, and then he recreated everything with a wave of his hand. I don't see Dorm surviving this, unless you have scand of some really insane durability feats of his.

I don't see Dorm being able to take him down. PS won't work so Dorm really loses a lot of his fire power. Odin has many ways to get rid of Dorm though.

@thorboy2221: Dormammu took an attack of Eternity with sufficient power to destroy all the existence and even survived the holocaust of his Dark Dimension. He walked inside of Eternity, who has universes being born there.

How about destroying one universe or absorbing multiple ones while weakened( Umar helped though)? Sealing Eternity? One-shooting Giraud(Who did something that not even the Living Tribunal or the Celestials could do it)? Dormammu can match his feats.

Me neither, because I put them as equals.

EDIT: Dormammu doesn't have many low showing unless you don't know the context of them.

Batman stomps.

@laylah: Odin's evil half, when he was fighting him, was said to be tapping into Eternity, and Odin beat him. Eternity gets owned quite a bit for plot purposes. Dorm, apparently Odin, Genis-Vell, etc. have done it.

While Dorm can't take Odin down, there are ways Odin can beat him. TP (which Odin has feats of doing at a high level), stopping time and removing Dorm from battle, BFR, and a full galaxy busting blast would take him down (since what you said doesn't prove any great durability feats).

@thorboy2221: It wasn't Eternity, but rather Infinity( And was just a fraction) and IIRC Genis didn't beat Eternity without Entropy's help.

Dormammu used TP on the Mindless Ones( Together they occupy an entire part of the Dark Dimension), He has time powers too and BFR isn't an option to someone who can travel between universes and dimensions.

NO! I just said he survived inside of Eternity with universes being born there and tanked an attack with sufficient power to destroy all the existence, but you think a galaxy busting blast is really more powerful than that....

And Eternity was CREATED to fight against Dormammu just for you know.

Why Itachi of course

@laylah: It didn't say if it was a fraction or not, it just said that he was tapping into it. Genis seemed to do all of the work, he even kept saying "I" and not "we". He definitely destroyed the universe on his own. On my phone or I would have scans.

The Mindless Ones don't have any feats of TP or TP resistance, so this means nothing to me. Both Thor and Odin have shown it, defensively and offensively, at a much higher level than this. This is still one way Odin can win unless you can show me Dormy defending against TP against someone of significance. BFR, which is when you are being taken out of the battle, is still a win. It doesn't matter if he returns or not.

This isn't a durability feat. There isn't enough info in this one sentence that lets us know what is being implied. Destroy all of existence? All of existence where? Earth? That is normally what Dormy is trying to conquer. Destroy just the people or everything in the universe? You need a different angle. Odin has the power to take him down, as Dormy has been harmed by far less (thunder clap, etc.). Show me a truly impressive scan of durability or else he won't last.

And again, Odin can stop time long enough for him to learn to kill Blade, take his holy weapons, and use then to kill Dormy.

Nabu

The Solo King

Wonder Woman cut his head

@ancient_god: WONDER WOMAN can beat Dormammu? plz tell me how she can beat somebody of odin level

Cutting his head, have you ever listen of the Yatforce?

If this is Dormammu at the height of his powers no one below Eternity can beat him, or Dr. Strange with a significant amount prep.

Also Shuma Gorath.

@thorboy2221: It didn't say if it was a fraction or not, it just said that he was tapping into it. Genis seemed to do all of the work, he even kept saying "I" and not "we". He definitely destroyed the universe on his own. On my phone or I would have scans.

Which is unquantifiable at best and if Genis could do alone then he wouldn't need Entropy at first place.

The Mindless Ones don't have any feats of TP or TP resistance, so this means nothing to me. Both Thor and Odin have shown it, defensively and offensively, at a much higher level than this. This is still one way Odin can win unless you can show me Dormy defending against TP against someone of significance. BFR, which is when you are being taken out of the battle, is still a win. It doesn't matter if he returns or not.

This isn't a durability feat. There isn't enough info in this one sentence that lets us know what is being implied. Destroy all of existence? All of existence where? Earth? That is normally what Dormy is trying to conquer. Destroy just the people or everything in the universe? You need a different angle. Odin has the power to take him down, as Dormy has been harmed by far less (thunder clap, etc.). Show me a truly impressive scan of durability or else he won't last.

Do you know who many Mindless Ones exist? Basically, an entire universe filled with them, so it's a quite feat. All the existence is now just Earth? And Dormammu try to absolve the 616 to his home dimension and not just the Earth.......Where you took this idea? His objectives are universes.

Are you talking about Defenders Vol.3 where Hulk used a thunderclap on a weakened Dormammu? I debunked everything here( Page 20 and last post). Like I said.....Read the stories better and do the same to Strange Tales#146 and Doctor Strange#172 where Dormy tanked his attack that destroyed Eternity's substance and even another of Eternity himself.

And again, Odin can stop time long enough for him to learn to kill Blade, take his holy weapons, and use then to kill Dormy.

If he was able to or Dormy just send Satannish( Who was compared to the Shaper of Words and the same is put above Odin by the Handbooks by Kubik's bio) and finish this and even the Living Tribunal used Dormammu's source of power, so I think he can handle just fine.

Dormammu can't be killed too.....At least not like that.

@laylah: Which is unquantifiable at best and if Genis could do alone then he wouldn't need Entropy at first place.

Ehtropy recruited Genis, not the other way around. One shot from Genis' gun destroyed everything.

Do you know who many Mindless Ones exist? Basically an entire universe filled with themdon't know if i die now or what? All the existence is now just Earth? And Dormammu try to anex the 616 to his hoem dimension and not just the Earth.......Where you took this idea? His oblectis are universes.

It doesn't matter how many there were, if they don't have TP or TP defense, this means nothing. Sentry mind wiped the minds of over 7 billion people, but it means nothing in battle because it was against people who don't have a defense against TP. Same goes here unless you can show me scans of it. Regardless, this isn't on Odin's level. NONE OF THIS MATTERS ANYWAYS. SHOW ME DORMY RESISTING TP from someone at Skyfather level or above. If you can't, then Odin wins via TP.

LOL! Are you talking about Defenders Vol.3 where Hulk used a thunderclap on a weakened Dormammu? I debunked everything here. Like I said.....Read the stories better and do the same to Strange Tales#146 and 172 where Dormy tanked his attack that destroyed Eternity's substance and even another of Eternity himself.

There are more however I don't want to lowball the character.

If he was able to or Dormy just send Satannish( Who was compared to the Shaper of Words and the same is put above Odin by the Hanbooks by Kubik's bio) and finish this and even the Living Tribunal used Dormammu's source of power, so I think he can handle this just fine.

Odin did this instantly, while Dormy needs time to complete it. Dormy would be trapped well before he could utter out any words. No one on the vine goes by Official books, marvel.com, wiki, or anything like that. The point is, you have to show that Dormy is immune to this type of attack, as in a scan. Otherwise he wins like this too.

Awwwww.... I was gonna say fire benders. lol.

Ehtropy recruited Genis, not the other way around. One shot from Genis' gun destroyed everything.

IIRC Genis only used to Entropy become the new Eteninty, but it's quite different from destroying the entity.

It doesn't matter how many there were, if they don't have TP or TP defense, this means nothing. Sentry mind wiped the minds of over 7 billion people, but it means nothing in battle because it was against people who don't have a defense against TP. Same goes here unless you can show me scans of it. Regardless, this isn't on Odin's level. NONE OF THIS MATTERS ANYWAYS. SHOW ME DORMY RESISTING TP from someone at Skyfather level or above. If you can't, then Odin wins via TP.

This logic is ridiculous.....Someone controlled an entire Multiverse, but it doesn't matter if they don't have TP resistance? This a really a silly and flawed logic. I twist the question: Show me Odin controlling an entire universe and even more. The Dark Dimension became bigger with the time and has many universes, so more and more Mindless Ones.

There are more however I don't want to lowball the character.

Then say them for me debunk great part of it....And it's not like every character don't have low feats, but Dormammu actually has less than the others.

Odin did this instantly, while Dormy needs time to complete it. Dormy would be trapped well before he could utter out any words. No one on the vine goes by Official books, marvel.com, wiki, or anything like that. The point is, you have to show that Dormy is immune to this type of attack, as in a scan. Otherwise he wins like this too.

How can you say he can't? Strange can stop time just fine, but this doesn't help him against Dormammu and the fact you think he can take all his items while Dormammu is freeze is nonsense. Well, the Handbooks are created by Marvel....You know, the company who writes the comics and not the viners who read them. They aren't perfect, but aren't wrong too.

Otherwise Dormammu seals him like he was doing with Eternity or just transform him into dead matter like with Sinifer. It's not like Dormammu was compared to the Celestials and Odin was trashed by them....

@laylah: 90 percent of your argument has been debunked on this forum by Killmall. The guy is a genius in this department. He even shows how Dormammu was owned by Eternity the first time, and how the second time Dorm did it because he merged with Umar and he had special artifacts. This fight is straight up and Dormammu will get owned. He also debunks a bunch of other stuff that you would say puts Dorm at or above Skyfather level.

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/dormammu-and-mephisto-vs-odin-and-zeus-1501075/

I'm done going back in forth here, especially since i am on my phone. I can't just do long posts. now lets get to the scans. Dorm using TP, no matter how small of a feat it was, and showing a defense to it, are two complete different things. Now show me these. 1) show me Dorm defending against TP against someone at Skyfather level or above. An actual scan. There are more than one of Odin doing it. If you can't than Odin wins via TP. 2) Show me Dorm withstanding Time being stopped in battle. An actual scan please. If not, then Odin wins this way too. 3) Show me an actual scan of Dormammu's durability. If you can't show me something than he gets blasted away as soon as the fight starts.

@thorboy2221: I'd read this post a long time ago and I didn't say that Dormammu won against Eternity, but he actually was able to fight it and was banished, but Eternity was the one who fleed by letting being captured by Nightmare, while Dormammu was perfect fine too :)

He forgot the size of the Dark Dimension, That Dormammu actually confronted the Watcher, That Dormammu's power was being sucked by the The Wing of Needless Sorrow before Clea and Topaz showed up, Strange also said that Eternity might be destroyed by Dormammu's force on the same scan and Umar isn't Dormammu for her opnion having height. Even more when Dormy one-shooted her.

Killemall forgot this things......But I think it doesn't matter follow him like a blind person.

So Odin can TP'd Dormammu, but the same used on a dimension bigger than entire universe can't do the same? Dormammu also mentally contolled the G'Uranthic Guardian( Which is composed of the Mhuruuks who lived on the entire Dark Dimension) and this was after he took away their essence.

I gave you the stories as I can't post the scans and most of this feats are on Doctor Strange, Sorcerer Supreme.

Nothing is stopping Dormammu from sealing or transforming him into dead matter like he did with more powerful foes.

@laylah: So Odin can TP'd Dormammu, but the same used on a dimension bigger than entire universe can't do the same? Dormammu also mentally contolled the G'Uranthic Guardian( Which is composed of the Mhuruuks who lived on the entire Dark Dimension) and this was after he took away their essence.

I told you that I gave you the benefit of the doubt, that Dorm TP'ed someone. I asked for you to show me Dorm DEFENDING against TP. Odin has shown this on panel, now show me Dorm doing the same thing. Otherwise, Odin will defend off Dorm and then he will mindrape him. Dorm wouldn't be able to defend against this because he has no scans of him doing this against someone like Odin.

I gave you the stories as I can't post the scans and most of this feats are on Doctor Strange, Sorcerer Supreme.

So time stopping will work too, seeing that there isn't anything of Dorm showing it wouldn't work on him. Which there isn't, I've looked myself.

Nothing is stopping Dormammu from sealing or transforming him into dead matter like he did with more powerful foes.

Odin has better matter and transmutation feats than Dorm. Like I said, he recreated every speck of the galaxy he destroyed. Far more impressive. And he did it on his own, something Dorm doesn't do quite often.

So as for now, Odin can win in ways:

1) TP (since you don't have a scan of Dorm withstanding it from someone like Odin)

2) BFR (Odin has done this to billions of people, and many characters)

3) Freezing Dorm in time (which will surly work)

4) Finding a holy weapon, which far weaker characters have, and killing Dorm with it.

5) Banishing Dorm (which has been done before).

6) Galaxy busting power (no scans to contend this).

Please don't reply to this without showing me scans.

^

That picture which is in no way pertaining to somebody is awesome.

I told you that I gave you the benefit of the doubt, that Dorm TP'ed someone. I asked for you to show me Dorm DEFENDING against TP. Odin has shown this on panel, now show me Dorm doing the same thing. Otherwise, Odin will defend off Dorm and then he will mindrape him. Dorm wouldn't be able to defend against this because he has no scans of him doing this against someone like Odin.

TP is TP....If can be used to attack, then can be used to defend yourself by overpowering the opponent and even if Odin enter on Dormammu's mind, then he would still have to fight Dormammu himself as he has the ability to project himself ( More like the manifestation of his ego) as a ''security'' just like he did during Doctor Strange, Sorcerer Supreme#50.

So time stopping will work too, seeing that there isn't anything of Dorm showing it wouldn't work on him. Which there isn't, I've looked myself.

Sure! I believe you've looked over all the comics of Doctor Strange, Sorcerer Supreme during just the small gap of time in our talk.

Odin has better matter and transmutation feats than Dorm. Like I said, he recreated every speck of the galaxy he destroyed. Far more impressive. And he did it on his own, something Dorm doesn't do quite often.

See? This just proves you didn't look nothing, because if you did then you would know that Dormammu maintain all the molecular activity of the Dark Dimension just by simple existing and the same dimension was hinted to be infinite in size during Doctor Strange, Sorcerer Supreme#21.

Yeah! You sure have read.

1) TP (since you don't have a scan of Dorm withstanding it from someone like Odin)

I just gave you the comics, so I kinda did.

2) BFR (Odin has done this to billions of people, and many characters)

Your conception that Odin would simple be able to banish a powerful opponent like Dormammu and the same can't do it too is laughable...Even more when you wrote this:

BFR, which is when you are being taken out of the battle, is still a win. It doesn't matter if he returns or not.

Hi OP! I didn't know you specified this as a condition on this battle to win.

3) Freezing Dorm in time (which will surly work)

I still have to find the scans of his time powers, but Dormammu also has other abilities to get away with Odin, such as sealing,absorbing him or transmutation.

4)

4) Finding a holy weapon, which far weaker characters have, and killing Dorm with it.

On middle battle? And Dormammu isn't Ghost Rider for having weakness to holy weapons and they needed Evil Eye of Avalon and isn't easy to get an artifact like this.

5) Banishing Dorm (which has been done before).

Of course! On his hosts which aren't truly him and when depowered! It's not like even 5 Hell-Lords on Hell had problems too and only did with a plot-device.

6) Galaxy busting power (no scans to contend this).

Really? Like, really? When you looked at Killemall's posts and searched for it, I saw the comic and the scans I was talking about IN THE SAME PAGE! Did you choose to ignore them? Because I'm about to ignore you right now.

Please don't reply to this without showing me scans.

Like you have done until now? I said that I can't post right now and so did you, but you continued and I can't?

Hypocrisy is Hypocrisy. Don't reply to me then.

How about Dormammu wins by defeating more powerful characters? Even guys like the Living Tribunal who barely felt Odin's death like if wasn't important recognized Dormammu. Odin's power won't work on a foe much more powerful than him, so it's kinda pointless since Dormy has feats to say so.

I'm tired of having to debunk most of your claims, so unless you start reading about Dormammu for me not do this.........I'm not going to debate against someone lacking knowledge.

EDIT: I've finally debunked your reasoning of Odin being above Dormammu, so I don't need to post or prove anything more:

Let's take Hellcat#02 for example:

Mephisto explicitly states that Dormammu could bring down both Asgard and Olympus as a whole( Since Mephy said that Dormammu could get all their family killed) and while there isn't much reason to listen to the ''Prince of Lies'' himself, I say it's reasonable to listen to Hela and Pluto:

Gallery

They were convinced to take part in the plan of freezing Hades to defeat Dormammu, which shows to us that both of them ended up agreeing with Mephisto's statement of how dangerous Dormmy can be. Another thing, this was Dormammu during/around the time of his banishment and exile.

Most of his actions there were to indirectly regain his old power back. Other pieces of evidence also demonstrate/put Dormammu above the level you're labeling him, like The War of the Seven Sphere:

We've been told by Clea during Doctor Strange, Sorcerer Supreme Annual#4 that Dormammu fought against Slorioth; The Trinity of Ashes and Fatalis.

All of them were major players in the war and Dormammu defeated them all since The Dark Dimension was still in his possession after all this:

Why did I mention this? The War of the Seven Spheres is referenced numerous times as the biggest and most important mystical event between the greatest mystical entities out there and I haven't seen any ''Skyfathers'' such as Odin and/or Zeus being present, even though they're mystical beings and use magic as their power and don't come at me saying that Odin/Zeus doesn't only use magic to be in there......Dormammu also has access to cosmic powers per his own admission and so have Pura-Shumatra and other beings in the battle.

Moreover, Dormammu's creation( Satannish) is even part of the War too:

Speaking of Satannish...He also proves Dormammu's superiority over someone like Odin. Don't you believe in me?

Let's take a look at Avengers#61, then:

Gallery

As you can see above, even one crystal containing a fraction of Satannish's might was enough to overpower both Surtur and Ymir to teleport them and then hit each other. Satannish's power was also used in ''The Spell of the Fire and Ice'' to free the duo from a prison so powerful that they couldn't escape by themselves:

Gallery

I've debated many times against other users that such spell is directly connected to the power of the caster, so it's not anyone who can free the two.

Doctor Strange's words let very clear that was thanks to Satannish's might that both were freed and by it can the spell be reversed( This is why Strange looked up for something with the same amount of power used by Satannish to cast the spell):

The SoS even regard Satannish as more powerful and they were the ones responsible for freeing Surtur and Ymir. Like....The SoS basically don't even care/fear them, but they all pee in the presence of Satannish:

Gallery

Even go as far to regard Satannish as the most powerful mystic entity( NOTE: Lord Nekron was actually part of the SoS if anyone didn't know):

You can/may argue that Odin is more powerful than them, but I'm not talking about Dormammu to begin with....I'm talking about Satannish, whose power is so laughable below his creator that it's not even funny.

Dormammu himself was portrayed to be above Surtur with the Twilight Sword during Magik's series.

Surtur got destroyed by Archenemy even while inside of his realm and with the sword, as well his troops.

Gallery

While Dormammu was able to hold an entire flank against the same enemy alone duringMagik#04:

Surtur also had his troops if you want to say that was because of the Mindless Ones.

Dormammu did more than all the other Lords of the Splinter-Reams together( Even more than Surtur). They had a few powerful beings in there and some were even Hell-Lords and Fear Lords:

Gallery

Dormammu's power was also used by Magik to help defeat Archenemy:

And she did:

Gallery

Vitchen and Mephisto's power are inconsequent as it's pretty well stabilized to be well below both Magik and Dormammu's one. In the end, Dormmy and Magik were also portrayed as equals during that storyline:

So Dormammu's power had a big part in the defeat of Archenemy, whose power dwarfed all the other Lords of the Splinter-Realms together. Planning to post that quote of Dormammu claiming to be Zeus and Odin's equal won't help either when there's another interpretation ignored by many.

Dormammu never said anything about power and could very well mean status given the events during Thor Annual#9:

Gallery

Odin represents order and Dormammu represents chaos, so could very well be status. Heck, Dormammu even made a reference to the so-called ''Lords of Order'' during the same comic:

It's pretty clear where Dormammu stands in power and many Handbooks are misinterpreted as none ever claimed about Odin and Surtur's powers rivaling Dormammu( Just that is unknown where it stands in relation to each other). Many other things are without of context and still users believe in them, like that claim of Dormammu mentioning how Loki's evil powers nearly rivaling it's own.

Which I debunked, btw:

You need to know Steve Englehart's language, which is full of dramatic expressions to understand better what Dormammu said. Reading the story, it's very clear that Dormammu was actually talking about how Loki is as almost as evil as him( His capacity to evil deeds) and not magic or raw power.

The story was clear about who is more powerful than who.

Loki had to wait until Dormammu didn't care about him anymore and just then attacked Dormy while trying to steal the Evil Eye, which lead to a physical assault( I still see Dormammu caring more to merge the dimensions with the Evil Eye than Loki's assault on him.....And Dormy is not using any magic). This all happened in an unknown time frame.

You also forgot to post the pages where Loki's lesser mind couldn't comprehend Dormammu's power:

Gallery

And the ignoring the whole thing that happened during Thor#232-234 when Loki only accomplished his feats because of Dormammu's powers(Which wouldn't be possible if they were equal):

Loki himself acknowledge Dormammu's powers as everything:

And his very plan only worked because of this powers:

Gallery

This gave Loki a power boost like he never felt before by his own admission. A power boost that enabled him to defeat almost every hero and his brother Thor to a level that the same wondered where Loki gained such power. A power boost that would make him invincible and conquer both Asgard and the Earth.

Did you even read the stories? Loki took months to control a fraction of Dormammu's powers by unknown methods and was going to conquer Marvel Earth(After Loki stomped the heroes) by using a portion of Dormammu's powers. When Loki started losing that powers then Thor was able to defeat him:

Gallery

This shows a big gap between them and still don't see a counter to Loki becoming crazy for absorbing Dormammu's powers.

Anyway; Dormammu is a bit more powerful than your everyday skyfathers like Odin and many things prove this.

Oh! Nice to see another of your alts, Marvelous. ^-^

Sorry what?

@killemall: Yeah, I said it.

Because of a few, but not many of your posts I saw people using non-canon stuff or things without context about Dormammu, so I think it's better we both finish. It's between you and me.

I really don't agree with 80% of what you posted about it.

@laylah: Not agreeing with me is fine I can totally understand than though your and my conclusion is similar. I dont see a basis to outright suggest who among the two (Odin and Dormammu) is more powerful but Odin has consistency in terms of feats specially off late making him appear superior though at one point they were argued as equal, I am a bit unsure to what you mean by I forgot things?

@killemall: I just received this message now, lol.

Really....I think 90% of the users tend to post your arguments about Dormammu and some of them are a little out of context. They also give me a headache every time.

@decaf_wizard: Also, you should take out the restriction about Marvel characters.

It gets boring with it.

Squirrel Girl. And possibly Chipmunk Hunk, although he's untested as of yet. Looking to see if he has the same range. :)

someone above him :P

Happens, I am seeing your message today after you posted 12 days ago.

I don't really debate as much anymore. Time constraints and all but that's expected.

Honest truth, apart from the very popular characters, there are not many people who have read a complete history of either characters they debate with.

It's pretty clear we have both read about Dormammu though we still disagree, that's a different issue. But its often people going off what they have heard and disagreeing with people based on what they have heard.

blud