@MarvelJackAss433: You know this shouldn't be in the battle forum. You've done this before and have been told before. Many times. Why do you continue to constantly fail in this regard? It HAS to be on purpose...I just can't fathom why you would want to be berated for something that has been beaten into your head in nearly every post you make. Doesn't it get tiresome? Honestly. "
Okay, I'm just going to lay it all out quickly here.
We are assuming the following things: 1. In this competition, there is no magic involved or a specific power like Black Bolts voice. We are assuming this is done by who can do the best Thunderclap. So without Magic or Mutant/ Meta abilities we can use physics and science to describe what is going on here. 2. We are assuming that the Thunderclap is caused by the aftermath of two objects striking each other very hard causing the amount of air pressure within the objects to destroy its surroundings. Air pressure is what a clap essentially is.
I don't want to lay out the equations for air pressure, so lets just use normal pressure.
P = F / A F = ma
So the greater F is the greater P will be.
How Hulk would create the most amount of force is if he clapped at the same speed all the others did. He has more Mass than Superman and the Flash. But this is not the case, because the Hulk can not accelerate his hands as fast as Flash or Superman. Hulk loses.
Superman and Flash are relatively similar in mass, Superman has a bit more mass. But Mass is not the main factor here, because at the speed they are moving,
a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> m
So it comes down to who accelerates their mass the fastest.
No one has to go by my opinion, but this is the reason why I think THE FLASH should theoretically be able to make the most destructive thunderclap.
Thats a good post, but I think Thunderclap effectiveness has nothing to do with how fast the clap is done. I can clap faster than a muscle bound power lifter. I bet I can;t create as much force as him though.
" Okay, I'm just going to lay it all out quickly here. We are assuming the following things: 1. In this competition, there is no magic involved or a specific power like Black Bolts voice. We are assuming this is done by who can do the best Thunderclap. So without Magic or Mutant/ Meta abilities we can use physics and science to describe what is going on here.2. We are assuming that the Thunderclap is caused by the aftermath of two objects striking each other very hard causing the amount of air pressure within the objects to destroy its surroundings. Air pressure is what a clap essentially is. I don't want to lay out the equations for air pressure, so lets just use normal pressure. P = F / A F = ma So the greater F is the greater P will be. How Hulk would create the most amount of force is if he clapped at the same speed all the others did. He has more Mass than Superman and the Flash. But this is not the case, because the Hulk can not accelerate his hands as fast as Flash or Superman. Hulk loses. Superman and Flash are relatively similar in mass, Superman has a bit more mass. But Mass is not the main factor here, because at the speed they are moving, a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> m So it comes down to who accelerates their mass the fastest. No one has to go by my opinion, but this is the reason why I think THE FLASH should theoretically be able to make the most destructive thunderclap. "
This can all be immediately thrown out the window simply because it takes place in the DCU (or any other piece of fiction that isn't specifically defined in being scientifically accurate).
" Found this thru Google. Not a Thunder Clap. Still cool. Not sure where it's from. Probably JLA
"
Why can Flash talk to Martian Manhunter and have him understand him(let alone hear him) if he is moving at the speed of light or sound? DC is retarded.
" It's not just about speed. Strength and volume has a lot to do with it. "
No, it's how fast you can move and accelerate mass. Think about it, just become someone is a body builder doesn't mean he can clap louder than a skinny guy that slaps his hands and accelerates his hands much faster. "
Sound has nothing to do with it. It's the outward kinetic force generated by the collision of two hands that causes most of the damage. "
Everything can be taken back to Newtons basic law of F = MA, almost everything I have to do everyday has to do with Newton's law. Believe it or not, even heat transfer has to do with F = ma. Trust me, it's all F = MA when it comes to physical force. If it's magic or some character that has mutant ability it's different. If you really have the chance, please explain it in detail why Flash theoretically wouldn't be able form a thunderclap when he could clap with the most Force via F = ma. We can talk about it later, I'm heading home now. "
Quit getting all physics about it , i do it at school its not as complex as you keep making it out to be , but my point is Black Adam and Hercules etc. are in this , their power is derived from magic , which has no connection to our universal laws , also even characters whos powers are derived differently it doesn't work for them , comic characters regularly defy science so bringing in science at other points isn't relevant sure what your saying makes sense but these guys break the laws of physics all the time , i mean "speed force" some fictional dimensional barrier ? these guys don't abide by the laws of physics sometimes , so we can't base things like this on them too deep , sure we can basically as its evident they follow roughly the same laws but its not really full proof is what im trying to say.
probably BA he's the strongest , maybe Flash , maybe Skyfather Herc.
" Okay, I'm just going to lay it all out quickly here. We are assuming the following things: 1. In this competition, there is no magic involved or a specific power like Black Bolts voice. We are assuming this is done by who can do the best Thunderclap. So without Magic or Mutant/ Meta abilities we can use physics and science to describe what is going on here.2. We are assuming that the Thunderclap is caused by the aftermath of two objects striking each other very hard causing the amount of air pressure within the objects to destroy its surroundings. Air pressure is what a clap essentially is. I don't want to lay out the equations for air pressure, so lets just use normal pressure. P = F / A F = ma So the greater F is the greater P will be. How Hulk would create the most amount of force is if he clapped at the same speed all the others did. He has more Mass than Superman and the Flash. But this is not the case, because the Hulk can not accelerate his hands as fast as Flash or Superman. Hulk loses. Superman and Flash are relatively similar in mass, Superman has a bit more mass. But Mass is not the main factor here, because at the speed they are moving, a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> m So it comes down to who accelerates their mass the fastest. No one has to go by my opinion, but this is the reason why I think THE FLASH should theoretically be able to make the most destructive thunderclap. "
This can all be immediately thrown out the window simply because it takes place in the DCU (or any other piece of fiction that isn't specifically defined in being scientifically accurate). "
@CaptainRodgers said:
" @SlimJ87D said:
" @superdemon said:
" @SlimJ87D said:
" @superdemon said:
" It's not just about speed. Strength and volume has a lot to do with it. "
No, it's how fast you can move and accelerate mass. Think about it, just become someone is a body builder doesn't mean he can clap louder than a skinny guy that slaps his hands and accelerates his hands much faster. "
Sound has nothing to do with it. It's the outward kinetic force generated by the collision of two hands that causes most of the damage. "
Everything can be taken back to Newtons basic law of F = MA, almost everything I have to do everyday has to do with Newton's law. Believe it or not, even heat transfer has to do with F = ma. Trust me, it's all F = MA when it comes to physical force. If it's magic or some character that has mutant ability it's different. If you really have the chance, please explain it in detail why Flash theoretically wouldn't be able form a thunderclap when he could clap with the most Force via F = ma. We can talk about it later, I'm heading home now. "
Quit getting all physics about it , i do it at school its not as complex as you keep making it out to be , but my point is Black Adam and Hercules etc. are in this , their power is derived from magic , which has no connection to our universal laws , also even characters whos powers are derived differently it doesn't work for them , comic characters regularly defy science so bringing in science at other points isn't relevant sure what your saying makes sense but these guys break the laws of physics all the time , i mean "speed force" some fictional dimensional barrier ? these guys don't abide by the laws of physics sometimes , so we can't base things like this on them too deep , sure we can basically as its evident they follow roughly the same laws but its not really full proof is what im trying to say. probably BA he's the strongest , maybe Flash , maybe Skyfather Herc. "
That's nice you do it at school, I do it at work.
As much as you guys want to deny it, science can be applied here.
First, magic for Hercules and Black Adam is amping their strength speed and durability. This topic is asking who can do the thudnerclap best. The Thunderclap is just air pressure:
No where does it say that the Thudnerclap has magic in it. It is air pressure that causes the shockwave. The magic that empowers Juggernaut, Hercules and Black Adam is amping their strength up physical which is allowing them to smack their hands together. When they smack their hands together it follows the same concept.
If this topic was about who can fly or run the fastest, then I would have not brougth up science and instead showed scans and feats. The Silver Surfer flys because the power of cosmic, Superman flies according toe Darkseids minion because he changes his gravitational pull (whether his minion is correct or not who knows.) These all have nothing to do with science and therefore science can be thrown out the window.
Here we have a simple competition. He can Thunderclap the best, and all it is is smacking your hands together the fastest.
If you guys truly wanted to go by comic book showings, then it would probably be the Hulk because he's technically the only one that does it so often and he was able to level the sands of a beach onto buildings with it.
If you guys are going to keep denying that science has nothing to do with this topic, then show the proof. Show why these characters are not doing this physically and are actually using magic to amp the air pressure from their hands.
" Found this thru Google. Not a Thunder Clap. Still cool. Not sure where it's from. Probably JLA
"
Why can Flash talk to Martian Manhunter and have him understand him(let alone hear him) if he is moving at the speed of light or sound? DC is retarded. "
He can't fly. I don't think he's moving at the speed of sound while falling.
He doesn't have to shout out though. Manhunter could read his mind.
I went with the Flash simply because a Thunderclap relies on creating a large air pressure from a force, and force relies on the acceleration of mass. So I am arguing that the Flash can accelerate the fastest out of all of them and should generate the largest amount of force between his palms. If Superman or Black Adam is faster then they take it. "
eh dont think you should be applying real life physics to stuff in comics, i mean you do realize everytime flash grabs someone at Mach 10 he would rip their arm off, same with superman whenever someone is falling and he just catches them mid-fall in mid-air.
I went with the Flash simply because a Thunderclap relies on creating a large air pressure from a force, and force relies on the acceleration of mass. So I am arguing that the Flash can accelerate the fastest out of all of them and should generate the largest amount of force between his palms. If Superman or Black Adam is faster then they take it. "
eh dont think you should be applying real life physics to stuff in comics, i mean you do realize everytime flash grabs someone at Mach 10 he would rip their arm off, same with superman whenever someone is falling and he just catches them mid-fall in mid-air. "
Yeah but there's no other way we can debate this topic. It's not like Thunderclapping is a move that everyone does.
Feats wise, it has to be Hulk then if we aren't going to speculate some how. For someone to say Superman because he is stronger than Hulk, I can say Flash because he is Faster than Superman. I just gave the reasoning behind how speed plays a factor.
It's very logical, STRENGTH has little to do with a clap, it's speed. That's the simplest way I can put it.
I went with the Flash simply because a Thunderclap relies on creating a large air pressure from a force, and force relies on the acceleration of mass. So I am arguing that the Flash can accelerate the fastest out of all of them and should generate the largest amount of force between his palms. If Superman or Black Adam is faster then they take it. "
eh dont think you should be applying real life physics to stuff in comics, i mean you do realize everytime flash grabs someone at Mach 10 he would rip their arm off, same with superman whenever someone is falling and he just catches them mid-fall in mid-air. "
Yeah but there's no other way we can debate this topic. It's not like Thunderclapping is a move that everyone does. Feats wise, it has to be Hulk then if we aren't going to speculate some how. For someone to say Superman because he is stronger than Hulk, I can say Flash because he is Faster than Superman. I just gave the reasoning behind how speed plays a factor. It's very logical, STRENGTH has little to do with a clap, it's speed. That's the simplest way I can put it. "
@SlimJ87D: One thing to point out is that it will also depend on the rigidity of the materials. Banging two pieces of putty together is not going to create the same amount of noise as banging two blocks of iron together. In that regard, Superman and Hulk should be capable of generating far more forceful impacts without harming themselves than Flash.
Of course, that brings up one big issue with Flash; he can generate enormous velocities and accelerations (meaning he should be generating enormous kinetic energies and forces), but somehow does it with what is otherwise normal human physical strength, and survives theses velocities with what is otherwise normal human physical resilience. Basically, it seems like he somehow generates huge accelerations, but without generating the appropriate forces that should liquify his body. So basically, F=ma doesn't seem to apply to him.
Of course, unlike speedsters in other comic universes, Flash actually does have a vague explanation for this: the Speed Force. Frankly, when I first heard about it I had always assumed the writer's had made it up specifically to address these kinds of issues. So basically, any time Wally does something at super speed, the corresponding force should probably be denoted as maybe Fs (I'd make the s a subscript if I knew how), to differentiate it from normal Newtonian forces. No idea what the actual equation would be, but it just seems to me the function of the Speed Force is to (pretty much magically) supply Wally/speedster X with enormous acceleration while somehow circumventing the normal issues that would crop up from Newtonian mechanics.
I'd also point out a little detail in reading the equation: F=ma works both ways. Yes, if you can accelerate rapidly, there is a great force associated with it. However, it is important to understand that it also works in the opposite way; acceleration doesn't just magically come from out of nowhere, you need a massive force in the first place to create such an acceleration. Aside from speed, Wally can't really generate massive forces (I don't think he can lift multi-ton objects, for instance), so he's an exception, and his speed really does magically come from nowhere (Speed Force).
Relativity is kind of similar. People sometimes say that mass (or more properly, mass-energy) increases as something moves near light speed, which is sort of true, but what they often overlook is that the mass/energy doesn't just magically come out of nowhere when you move that fast, rather, you need to generate that amount of mass-energy to get to those high speeds in the first place.
" @SlimJ87D: One thing to point out is that it will also depend on the rigidity of the materials. Banging two pieces of putty together is not going to create the same amount of noise as banging two blocks of iron together. In that regard, Superman and Hulk should be capable of generating far more forceful impacts without harming themselves than Flash.
Of course, that brings up one big issue with Flash; he can generate enormous velocities and accelerations (meaning he should be generating enormous kinetic energies and forces), but somehow does it with what is otherwise normal human physical strength, and survives theses velocities with what is otherwise normal human physical resilience. Basically, it seems like he somehow generates huge accelerations, but without generating the appropriate forces that should liquify his body. So basically, F=ma doesn't seem to apply to him.
Of course, unlike speedsters in other comic universes, Flash actually does have a vague explanation for this: the Speed Force. Frankly, when I first heard about it I had always assumed the writer's had made it up specifically to address these kinds of issues. So basically, any time Wally does something at super speed, the corresponding force should probably be denoted as maybe Fs (I'd make the s a subscript if I knew how), to differentiate it from normal Newtonian forces. No idea what the actual equation would be, but it just seems to me the function of the Speed Force is to (pretty much magically) supply Wally/speedster X with enormous acceleration while somehow circumventing the normal issues that would crop up from Newtonian mechanics.
I'd also point out a little detail in reading the equation: F=ma works both ways. Yes, if you can accelerate rapidly, there is a great force associated with it. However, it is important to understand that it also works in the opposite way; acceleration doesn't just magically come from out of nowhere, you need a massive force in the first place to create such an acceleration. Aside from speed, Wally can't really generate massive forces (I don't think he can lift multi-ton objects, for instance), so he's an exception, and his speed really does magically come from nowhere (Speed Force).
Relativity is kind of similar. People sometimes say that mass (or more properly, mass-energy) increases as something moves near light speed, which is sort of true, but what they often overlook is that the mass/energy doesn't just magically come out of nowhere when you move that fast, rather, you need to generate that amount of mass-energy to get to those high speeds in the first place. "
And Freefa puts his 1,000,000 cents in. Well done.
" If you can't debate this topic using science, then go by feats. There's really no point. "
I see your point as most of the contenders don`t have TC feats to speak of. However, Freefa did a pretty good job countering Slim with science. "
True, with a wall of text lol. If this was "who punches the hardest?" then it would definitely be the Flash, since F=ma. I'm not so sure about thunderclap though since there's air pressure involved and whatnot.
And i dont think you understand , i'm not saying thunderclaps are magic but because some of these guys are magic we dont know if they abide by Newtons law of pressure therefore we can't use that to judge their claps, you're right about flash as he isn't magic , and i'd agree it could be Flash .
I say Flash but it could be BA or Herc , maybe Hulk , its his trademark.
"@SlimJ87D: One thing to point out is that it will also depend on the rigidity of the materials. Banging two pieces of putty together is not going to create the same amount of noise as banging two blocks of iron together. In that regard, Superman and Hulk should be capable of generating far more forceful impacts without harming themselves than Flash.
Of course, that brings up one big issue with Flash; he can generate enormous velocities and accelerations (meaning he should be generating enormous kinetic energies and forces), but somehow does it with what is otherwise normal human physical strength, and survives theses velocities with what is otherwise normal human physical resilience. Basically, it seems like he somehow generates huge accelerations, but without generating the appropriate forces that should liquify his body. So basically, F=ma doesn't seem to apply to him.
Of course, unlike speedsters in other comic universes, Flash actually does have a vague explanation for this: the Speed Force. Frankly, when I first heard about it I had always assumed the writer's had made it up specifically to address these kinds of issues. So basically, any time Wally does something at super speed, the corresponding force should probably be denoted as maybe Fs (I'd make the s a subscript if I knew how), to differentiate it from normal Newtonian forces. No idea what the actual equation would be, but it just seems to me the function of the Speed Force is to (pretty much magically) supply Wally/speedster X with enormous acceleration while somehow circumventing the normal issues that would crop up from Newtonian mechanics.
I'd also point out a little detail in reading the equation: F=ma works both ways. Yes, if you can accelerate rapidly, there is a great force associated with it. However, it is important to understand that it also works in the opposite way; acceleration doesn't just magically come from out of nowhere, you need a massive force in the first place to create such an acceleration. Aside from speed, Wally can't really generate massive forces (I don't think he can lift multi-ton objects, for instance), so he's an exception, and his speed really does magically come from nowhere (Speed Force).
Relativity is kind of similar. People sometimes say that mass (or more properly, mass-energy) increases as something moves near light speed, which is sort of true, but what they often overlook is that the mass/energy doesn't just magically come out of nowhere when you move that fast, rather, you need to generate that amount of mass-energy to get to those high speeds in the first place. "
I agree , characters often don't abide to our physics You've made a very reasoned and well thought arguement well done .
" @SlimJ87D: Cool what do you work as And i dont think you understand , i'm not saying thunderclaps are magic but because some of these guys are magic we dont know if they abide by Newtons law of pressure therefore we can't use that to judge their claps, you're right about flash as he isn't magic , and i'd agree it could be Flash . I say Flash but it could be BA or Herc , maybe Hulk , its his trademark. "
I'm a Mechanical and Material Science. Kinda bored with it, wish I was a Cop. I just got another job yesterday so I'm real happy about that. You hit this point where you don't know if you wanted to do what made you happy or you want to do what made your parents happy -_-
@Freefa11 said:
" @SlimJ87D: One thing to point out is that it will also depend on the rigidity of the materials. Banging two pieces of putty together is not going to create the same amount of noise as banging two blocks of iron together. In that regard, Superman and Hulk should be capable of generating far more forceful impacts without harming themselves than Flash.
Of course, that brings up one big issue with Flash; he can generate enormous velocities and accelerations (meaning he should be generating enormous kinetic energies and forces), but somehow does it with what is otherwise normal human physical strength, and survives theses velocities with what is otherwise normal human physical resilience. Basically, it seems like he somehow generates huge accelerations, but without generating the appropriate forces that should liquify his body. So basically, F=ma doesn't seem to apply to him.
Of course, unlike speedsters in other comic universes, Flash actually does have a vague explanation for this: the Speed Force. Frankly, when I first heard about it I had always assumed the writer's had made it up specifically to address these kinds of issues. So basically, any time Wally does something at super speed, the corresponding force should probably be denoted as maybe Fs (I'd make the s a subscript if I knew how), to differentiate it from normal Newtonian forces. No idea what the actual equation would be, but it just seems to me the function of the Speed Force is to (pretty much magically) supply Wally/speedster X with enormous acceleration while somehow circumventing the normal issues that would crop up from Newtonian mechanics.
I'd also point out a little detail in reading the equation: F=ma works both ways. Yes, if you can accelerate rapidly, there is a great force associated with it. However, it is important to understand that it also works in the opposite way; acceleration doesn't just magically come from out of nowhere, you need a massive force in the first place to create such an acceleration. Aside from speed, Wally can't really generate massive forces (I don't think he can lift multi-ton objects, for instance), so he's an exception, and his speed really does magically come from nowhere (Speed Force).
Relativity is kind of similar. People sometimes say that mass (or more properly, mass-energy) increases as something moves near light speed, which is sort of true, but what they often overlook is that the mass/energy doesn't just magically come out of nowhere when you move that fast, rather, you need to generate that amount of mass-energy to get to those high speeds in the first place. "
@superdemon:
That's a very nice insight Freefa, I like it. I didn't want to get into materials just because I was trying to keep this conversation as easy as I could.
Anyways, if we're going to talk about the Speed Force, then Wally could survive the durability because of the speed force. The Speed Force is very ambiguous, and it's suppose to protect the user from any kinds of harm if someone really were to move at that high speeds. When he did the IMP, his arm didn't burn up and disappear but instead it caused an explosion. Therefore, the durability needed to perform the Thunderclap will be made up for via Speed Force. If you don't believe me, then think about it. He shouldn't have been able to punch the white martian which has durability and strength similar to Superman and MM.
I understand what you are trying to say about the "two ways" force thing. But in this event, like I said, strength, the amount of force you can lift, plays very minimal for this competition. I want to say this again, a body builder that is 2 times stronger than a man is not necessarily going to clap louder than him just because he is stronger. Again, take the IMP, he can't generate a lot of lifting force but he can generate a instantaneous force, which results in the IMP itself. The IMP is a punch that happens instantly, which lets the amount of acceleration he generated transverse instantly.
Infinite mass punch - Introduced in Grant Morrison's JLA title. Flash (Wally West), traveling near the speed of light acquired the relativistic mass of such speed to impart blows which could hit with the force of "a white dwarf star," enabling him to knock down such powerful foes as the White Martians with a single punch. Flash's own durability is regulated by the Speed Force in such cases.
This is the IMP. I don't see why he could perform such a punch and not be able to Thunderclap with similar results.
Something I wanted to bring up to discussion is Zoom. He can make sonic booms and shock waves by snipping his fingers together. How else is he doing this? My assumption is because of his speed. Sure their powers work differently, but it's still speed that allowed Zoom to perform this feat, and nothing else. Flash speeds himself up, Zoom slows time down, but the same concept is being applied. They are a lot faster than our relative time, and it is that concept that allowed Zoom to pull off such a feat. I bet Flash could do the same thing if he tried, but he doesn't because he doesn't want to harm anyone.
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