Who can beat the Surfer from DC?

Are you really trying to defend Darkseid as not being evil? Thats some crazy logic there man. How can you blame Superman for something Lex Luthor did? Society itself doesn't condone murder and Superman obeys the law by bringing him in everytime he does something wrong. Its not his fault that the United States criminal holding system (in fictional DC Comic land) isn't prepared for Luthor so he escapes every time. Darkseid on the other hand wants to destroy the Universe and makes an active effort to do so by killing as many people as possible. Galactus is a force of nature/neutral who needs to destroy planets to live because his existance balances the universe. Darkseid makes has never stated that he NEEDS to wipe out untold millions nor has their been any justification otherwise.

"Doomsday would have killed the entire world 6 billion people, are more than 10,000.
"

there we go

"Voidheart said:

"Doomsday would have killed the entire world 6 billion people, are more than 10,000.
"

correct, but i'm not debating whether Superman was right in killing Doomsday (another one i forgot to add), i know he was right in doing it...

i'm showing you how many people Superman has inadvertantly killed while doing his 'heroic actions'

M
"

"Are you really trying to defend Darkseid as not being evil? Thats some crazy logic there man. How can you blame Superman for something Lex Luthor did? Society itself doesn't condone murder and Superman obeys the law by bringing him in everytime he does something wrong. Its not his fault that the United States criminal holding system (in fictional DC Comic land) isn't prepared for Luthor so he escapes every time. Darkseid on the other hand wants to destroy the Universe and makes an active effort to do so by killing as many people as possible. Galactus is a force of nature/neutral who needs to destroy planets to live because his existance balances the universe. Darkseid makes has never stated that he NEEDS to wipe out untold millions nor has their been any justification otherwise.
"

its the lesser of two evils
"

"Ace High said:

"Are you really trying to defend Darkseid as not being evil? Thats some crazy logic there man. How can you blame Superman for something Lex Luthor did? Society itself doesn't condone murder and Superman obeys the law by bringing him in everytime he does something wrong. Its not his fault that the United States criminal holding system (in fictional DC Comic land) isn't prepared for Luthor so he escapes every time. Darkseid on the other hand wants to destroy the Universe and makes an active effort to do so by killing as many people as possible. Galactus is a force of nature/neutral who needs to destroy planets to live because his existance balances the universe. Darkseid makes has never stated that he NEEDS to wipe out untold millions nor has their been any justification otherwise.
"

i'll go through this in detail...

1. Darkseid is not evil, he has never done anything more 'evil' than Emma Frost has...
2. I'm not blaming Superman for something Luthor did, i'm Blaming Superman for not killing Luthor in the first place and preventing those thousands, perhaps more, deaths
3. the criminal holding system COULD keep him... hell, i can think of 8 places in the DCU, not counting the phantom zone, where Luthor could have been incarcerated permanantly without any chance of escape
4. Darkseid does not, and never has wanted to, destroy the entire universe... he has never declared war or any other planet aside from New Genesis, check the DC history if you don't believe me


M
"

Are you kidding me?

1) Brainwashing children to be your slaves and torturing them in death dungeons isn't evil? When was the last time Emma Frost took over the world with an Anti-Life equation? Every single alternate universe that has Darkseid in charge of the world has it some horrible, dystopian future with people in places that makes concentration camps look like holiday camps (see Rock of Ages).
2) If Superman kills Luthor what makes him different? (See Action Comics #775 on why Superman doesn't kill).
3) Luthor is the smartest man on the planet, check the latest all-star superman for ways to break out of prison luthor style.
4) Darkseid's whole motive is to destroy the universe and re-make it using the Anti-Life equation.

"Darkseid does not, and never has wanted to, destroy the entire universe... he has never declared war or any other planet aside from New Genesis, check the DC history if you don't believe me"

The Fifth
"

well he said he wants to become more perfect than the other 4  so meh, plus theres always the anti-life equation ;)

said: "Are you kidding me?

1) Brainwashing children to be your slaves and torturing them in death dungeons isn't evil? When was the last time Emma Frost took over the world with an Anti-Life equation? Every single alternate universe that has Darkseid in charge of the world has it some horrible, dystopian future with people in places that makes concentration camps look like holiday camps (see Rock of Ages).

Have you seen his Order? Granny Goodness? and such?

"well he said he wants to become more perfect than the other 4  so meh, plus theres always the anti-life equation ;)
"

"Have you seen his Order? Granny Goodness? and such?
"

I may be going out of my element here seeing as im not an SS fan but could the Great Wizard Shazam do it Not Shazam himself but the wizard who was once Shazam but is not any longer.

(could have said that in a less confusing sentace but choose not to:p)

"I may be going out of my element here seeing as im not an SS fan but could the Great Wizard Shazam do it Not Shazam himself but the wizard who was once Shazam but is not any longer.

(could have said that in a less confusing sentace but choose not to:p)"

could of said Vlarem, or Jebediah O' Keenan

anyways

Methos look at the first few lines in Darkseids wiki

"All that is Darkseid's has been taken by him through blood and force. It is unsure how Uxas evolved into an embodiment of evil that he is now."

"Final Arrow said:

"I may be going out of my element here seeing as im not an SS fan but could the Great Wizard Shazam do it Not Shazam himself but the wizard who was once Shazam but is not any longer.

(could have said that in a less confusing sentace but choose not to:p)"

The wizard probably could... and Lord Marvel as Batson is now known probably could as well...

thanks, didn't think of those...

also i'll add Phantom Stranger to the list

M
"

Lets not forget Black Ann I think that is her name goes to check

Well it wasn't alternate it was THE actual timeline until the re-did it somehow...I can't remember correctly. Yeah Superman is well known for killing people, you know thats his whole deal, flying around killing people left right and centre thats like his whole schtick....or not. Have you actually read Final Crisis? The whole point is EVIL HAS WON, and DARKSEID IS THE EVIL. You must be the only guy on the planet who doesn't think Darkseid is evil. What about putting kids in camps and giving them the anti-life equation and making them slaves? That not evil to you?

And the Allmight duck of duckness! (It's Sunspots duck he absorbs powers lol)

"Well it wasn't alternate it was THE actual timeline until the re-did it somehow...I can't remember correctly. Yeah Superman is well known for killing people, you know thats his whole deal, flying around killing people left right and centre thats like his whole schtick....or not. Have you actually read Final Crisis? The whole point is EVIL HAS WON, and DARKSEID IS THE EVIL. You must be the only guy on the planet who doesn't think Darkseid is evil. What about putting kids in camps and giving them the anti-life equation and making them slaves? That not evil to you?
"

People keep saying Surfer got a power up but no one's been able to explain exactly what that means. What can he do now that he couldn't do before? Someone tell me and be specific.

Voidheart said:

"well he took on two beings that were able to beat galactus and won...
"

"Well it wasn't alternate it was THE actual timeline until the re-did it somehow...I can't remember correctly. Yeah Superman is well known for killing people, you know thats his whole deal, flying around killing people left right and centre thats like his whole schtick....or not. Have you actually read Final Crisis? The whole point is EVIL HAS WON, and DARKSEID IS THE EVIL. You must be the only guy on the planet who doesn't think Darkseid is evil. What about putting kids in camps and giving them the anti-life equation and making them slaves? That not evil to you?
"

"People keep saying Surfer got a power up but no one's been able to explain exactly what that means. What can he do now that he couldn't do before? Someone tell me and be specific.

Voidheart said:

"well he took on two beings that were able to beat galactus and won...
"

Surfer took on two beings that were able to beat Galactus and won, but only barely and not under his own power. He had to use an outside energy source (read: plot device) they just happened to be fighting next to and after the fight he was practically dead. If Galactus hadn't been right there to heal him there would be no Silver Surfer because the energy source he tapped was too much for him. He didn't beat them. The energy of the Crunch beat them, he just channeled it at them and it nearly killed him.
"

Blame Methos, he is the one saying Darkseid isn't evil. Well he sure as heck isn't a hero so he can't be used in this thread anyways.

Methos look at the first few lines in Darkseids wiki

"All that is Darkseid's has been taken by him through blood and force. It is unsure how Uxas evolved into an embodiment of evil that he is now.""

oh and its from this site btw

Oh and note to self: before arguing a stubbern mod, check the DCcomics.com page where Darkseid is listed as a villain

"Voidheart said:

Methos look at the first few lines in Darkseids wiki

"All that is Darkseid's has been taken by him through blood and force. It is unsure how Uxas evolved into an embodiment of evil that he is now.""

yes, because i trust Wiki implicitly....

/sarcasm

Evil is always subjective, people love to see black and white universes, good and evil... i much prefer to see shades of grey everywhere as to some people Darkseid is a hero and Superman an idiot for trying to enforce his moral standards of 'no killing' on everyone...

M
"

"Ace High said:

"Well it wasn't alternate it was THE actual timeline until the re-did it somehow...I can't remember correctly. Yeah Superman is well known for killing people, you know thats his whole deal, flying around killing people left right and centre thats like his whole schtick....or not. Have you actually read Final Crisis? The whole point is EVIL HAS WON, and DARKSEID IS THE EVIL. You must be the only guy on the planet who doesn't think Darkseid is evil. What about putting kids in camps and giving them the anti-life equation and making them slaves? That not evil to you?
"

thats what im trying to say but he wont listen, stubbern...
"

"Oh and note to self: before arguing a stubbern mod, check the DCcomics.com page where Darkseid is listed as a villain
"

In this case the end justifies the means, and can you remember what happened on Themyscira when the Amazons refused to aid darkseid on his plan?

you see thats the whole point, he a pawn defeated two beings that were able to defeat his master which has his power to the tenth. And even if he would have died, he defeated them. end of story no what if and would of.
"

instead of the small boost of Galactus' power he now has 25% (thats just what i heard)

"Voidheart said:

"Oh and note to self: before arguing a stubbern mod, check the DCcomics.com page where Darkseid is listed as a villain
"

i'm not stubborn... i'm perfectly willing to accept that Darkseid has done horrible things and had murdered millions...

Superman has done exactly the same but people seem to be blind to him, which is weird seeing as all he wears in primary colors :p

M
"

"In this case the end justifies the means, and can you remember what happened on Themyscira when the Amazons refused to aid darkseid on his plan?
"

Yeah he has used the anti life equation in a real life time. Obviously you haven't been reading Final Crisis cause he does it in the first issue. The blood on Superman's hands aren't caused directly by him though whereas Darkseid has explicitly murders all those people. Thats like saying that Hitler wasn't evil cause the German people at the time thought he was a hero. Seeing as Superman doesn't have slave pits that torture people to death on Earth run by people like Granny Godness I'd say yes it is different. Superman doesn't rule Earth he protects.

true, but Superman does it indirect and Darkseid does it willingly
"

"instead of the small boost of Galactus' power he now has 25% (thats just what i heard)
"

"Yeah he has used the anti life equation in a real life time. Obviously you haven't been reading Final Crisis cause he does it in the first issue. The blood on Superman's hands aren't caused directly by him though whereas Darkseid has explicitly murders all those people. Thats like saying that Hitler wasn't evil cause the German people at the time thought he was a hero. Seeing as Superman doesn't have slave pits that torture people to death on Earth run by people like Granny Godness I'd say yes it is different. Superman doesn't rule Earth he protects.
"

I dont even know exactly lol (thats why i said i heard), well for a feat, Nova recently gave a shot at SS and couldnt even scratch him

"I dont even know exactly lol (thats why i said i heard), well for a feat, Nova recently gave a shot at SS and couldnt even scratch him
"

Well like I have said many times, he definately isn't a hero so he has no real purpose in this thread. If you wanna take the Surfer out you need power at least on the Phantom Strangers level in the DCU.

"Voidheart said:

"I dont even know exactly lol (thats why i said i heard), well for a feat, Nova recently gave a shot at SS and couldnt even scratch him
"

You shouldn't go around saying things that you can't back up.
"

"Buckshot said:

"Voidheart said:

"I dont even know exactly lol (thats why i said i heard), well for a feat, Nova recently gave a shot at SS and couldnt even scratch him
"

You shouldn't go around saying things that you can't back up.
"

.... huh?
"

"Voidheart said:

"Buckshot said:

"Voidheart said:

"I dont even know exactly lol (thats why i said i heard), well for a feat, Nova recently gave a shot at SS and couldnt even scratch him
"

You shouldn't go around saying things that you can't back up.
"

.... huh?
"

What, you disagree? If you keep saying things that you have no evidence for and aren't even sure about, just going off "what you heard", then you can't prove your statements. Not only that, but other people see it and then they go around saying the same thing with no proof either (like you did). Then you have a large number of people believing some false information and making decisions based off that and coming to the wrong conclusions.
"

"Voidheart said:

"Buckshot said:

"Voidheart said:

"I dont even know exactly lol (thats why i said i heard), well for a feat, Nova recently gave a shot at SS and couldnt even scratch him
"

You shouldn't go around saying things that you can't back up.
"

.... huh?
"

What, you disagree? If you keep saying things that you have no evidence for and aren't even sure about, just going off "what you heard", then you can't prove your statements. Not only that, but other people see it and then they go around saying the same thing with no proof either (like you did). Then you have a large number of people believing some false information and making decisions based off that and coming to the wrong conclusions.
"

"Buckshot said:

"Voidheart said:

"Buckshot said:

"Voidheart said:

"I dont even know exactly lol (thats why i said i heard), well for a feat, Nova recently gave a shot at SS and couldnt even scratch him
"

You shouldn't go around saying things that you can't back up.
"

.... huh?
"

What, you disagree? If you keep saying things that you have no evidence for and aren't even sure about, just going off "what you heard", then you can't prove your statements. Not only that, but other people see it and then they go around saying the same thing with no proof either (like you did). Then you have a large number of people believing some false information and making decisions based off that and coming to the wrong conclusions.
"

thats why it isnt legit i didnt EVER state it was so stop trying to twist words in my mouth"

Lets get out of the comic book scene. Let's go to the real thing in life! What if you have Surfer's powers and ur fighting Doom? U have the power cosmic what's Doom gonna do with that? Heck he has no godlike powers like the Surfer does. Writers just gives heroes flaws so that there'll be balance and cos they want to. But in real life (without the writers powers)  could someone beat the Surfer?