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#101 Posted by i_like_swords (15765 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc: Ezio's pretty handy with projectiles too, especially his crossbow. Not to mention he has a hidden gun. Bullets travel faster than spears and Achilles isn't quite a bullet dodger, so I'd actually give range to Ezio. Then you factor in all of his bombs...

In terms of hand-to-hand it could go either way, but in this setting I'd take Ezio any day of the week. The city would be entirely foreign to Achilles and Ezio could literally do whatever he wanted to Achilles from a distance. He'd even be able to sneak up on him from behind if he felt daring.

#102 Edited by i_like_swords (15765 posts) - - Show Bio

@reikai said:

@i_like_swords: The same way he beats every other samurai, shinobi, oni, demon, warlord, ronin and mad genius of his day; by being better than them. Rikimaru became the Grand Master of the Azuma Ninja Clan at a young age.

Not only can Rikimaru do everything better than Ezio can, Rikimaru did it First. The Tenchu series was so damn boss until MS got a hold of the rights and butchered it.

Sounds cool. But I still don't see what advantage he has over Ezio here bar combat. Think about the setting and all the advantages it brings for Ezio.

#103 Edited by cfrehse (1004 posts) - - Show Bio

ezio can dodge arrows. you can do it in the game u just run away from the arrows. Plus the game mechanics don't really let u dodge them that easily. People haven't played the games. Watch all his cut scenes and you can see all the crazy stuff ezio does in all 3 games. I doubt any of these characters are going to even be able to track ezio under the OP circumstances. Streets in these games are packed. Ezio can disappear in moments. Also i don't think many street levelers could even catch ezio in rome. If he gets into a direct h2h confrontation with some of them i think maybe bats and a few others could top him but not easily. He has a massive advantage in this situation. I posted a video showing his fighting skill. He is flawless

#104 Posted by i_like_swords (15765 posts) - - Show Bio

@cfrehse said:

ezio can dodge arrows. you can do it in the game u just run away from the arrows. Plus the game mechanics don't really let u dodge them that easily. People haven't played the games. Watch all his cut scenes and you can see all the crazy stuff ezio does in all 3 games. I doubt any of these characters are going to even be able to track ezio under the OP circumstances. Streets in these games are packed. Ezio can disappear in moments. Also id don't think many street levelers could even catch ezio in rome. If he gets into a direct h2h confrontation with some of them i think maybe bats and a few others could top him but not easily. He has a massive advantage in this situation. I posted a video showing his fighting skill. He is flawless

All noteworthy points.

#105 Edited by Guardiandevil83 (5779 posts) - - Show Bio

Heres my list.

Clint Barton: Hawkeye is one of the best purely human acrobats in the Marvel universe. He is also incredibly accurate with that Bow of his. He has tagged Speedsters, like The Whizzer and Speed Demon. He would have to take out Ezio immediately, the longer they fight, the better chance Ezio has of finding cover.

Taskmaster: Dude has the compiled acrobatic knowledge of the already mentioned Clint Barton, Matt Murdock, Steve Rogers, and Peter Parker. He is no stranger to stealth, can copy all of Ezios moves in minutes, and is versed in many forms of fighting. Weapons or Hand to Hand. He should be able to close any gap the two have between them and match the Assassin blow for blow.

Jason Todd: He is a Robin who is not afraid to kill. Scary. But seriously, this kid is a monster. Super Powered opponents, skilled killers, Jason has fought it. And the dude schooled an armed swat unit in a bath towel. He should not be fazed by smoke bombs, and if he can sense Dick or Bruce, should pick up Ezio if it comes to hide and seek.

Classic Kraven: Dude gave Spider-Man trouble before any enhancements, wrestled Lions, and could track anyone. Locating Ezio should not be a problem, Kraven could blitz Parker, and lets not forget Kraven usually kept some form of anti-venom or vaccine. He could possibly have something to counter the poisons Ezios has.

#106 Edited by SOG7dc (7493 posts) - - Show Bio

@i_like_swords:

oh I know all about Ezio if played every AC game multiple times. but you said they start 50 visible meters away and we cant forget how bada$$ Achilles is. he barely broke a sweat the entire movie. in fact the only time he looked like he was even remotely trying was when he fought Hector. and he was still toying with Hector basically the whole fight. and can Ezio line up an accurate shot with his gun before Achilles can get that deadly spear throw off? I highly doubt it. the bombs wont count for much here because of Achilles shield and Achilles is basically the best fighter ever, his only Achilles heel being....well his heel. a heel that Ezio wouldn't know about. so the way I see this happening is Achilles throwing the spear, Ezio just barely dodging, Achilles drawing his sword. and then the rest of the fight would be a copy of Achilles vs. Hector. Ezio would die and "wander the underworld blind deaf and dumb and they will say there goes Ezio; the fool who thought he could kill Achilles."

#107 Posted by ThexX (1573 posts) - - Show Bio

@i_like_swords: Bucky isn't limited to just guns. He has superior fighting skill (Hand to Hand Combat) Which i have provided scans for. Also Ezio has never faced somebody that uses guns he most likely doesn't have the reflexes to dodge bullets.

And Bucky won't be shooting every civilian he sees he is a pretty damn good marksman. So if gets a line of sight on Ezio. Ezio is most likely going done. None of Ezio armor is going to stop modern ballistic bullets.

Here are some scans of Bucky Marksmen ship.

After getting shot plus cracking a few ribs, falling out of a window and landing a few stories below, he shoots Crossbones multiple times. Shield reports later that NO INTERNAL ORGANS were hit.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Marksmanship/CA_36_DCP12.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Marksmanship/CA_36_DCP13.jpg

More taking out randoms:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Marksmanship/CaptainAmerica046Zone-Avengerpg23.jpg

Manages to fire single explosive round into an assault rifle while the guy is running with a gun tucked under his arm.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Marksmanship/WinterSoldier04014.jpg

Shoots Madame Masque in her mask.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Marksmanship/NewAvengers53MrShepherd-Meganpg21.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Marksmanship/NewAvengers53MrShepherd-Meganpg22.jpg

Shoots Daken in the back of the head while Wolverine and Daken are about to fight

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Marksmanship/Origins25-016.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Marksmanship/Origins25-017.jpg

Hawkeye fires 3 arrows at Bucky. Bucky manages to shoot them all in midair.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Marksmanship/WinterSoldier013-Zone-010.jpg

You are correct Ezio has home filled advantage. But Bucky is a smart tactician he isn't just going to run around make him self a open target. He will come up with a plan to lure Ezio in and then attack. Bucky can also go on the hunt if he has to.

Here are some scans to prove my point. I will also throw in some stealth feats against wolverine.

STEALTH

Follows Wolverine for 3 days without Wolverine knowing.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Stealth/tn0_Wolverine40-017.jpg

Continues to follow Wolverine for a month without Wolverine knowing.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Stealth/tn0_Wolverine40-021.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Stealth/tn0_Wolverine40-022.jpg

Against Wolverine:

Bucky takes out a group of Ninjas and Wolverine (Without Adamantium).

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/6/60545/1151887-tn_vfx_wolverine38_016.jpg

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/6/60545/1151888-tn_vfx_wolverine38_017.jpg

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/6/60545/1151889-tn_vfx_wolverine38_018.jpg

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/6/60545/1151890-tn_vfx_wolverine38_019.jpg

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/6/60545/1151891-tn_vfx_wolverine38_020.jpg

Bucky with prep outsmarts Wolverine (with Adamantium) and nearly beats him to death if it wasn’t for the Adamantium and healing factor. Good thing he had backup.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/Wolverine/tn_VFX-Wolverine39-009.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/Wolverine/tn_VFX-Wolverine39-010.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/Wolverine/tn_VFX-Wolverine39-011.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/Wolverine/tn_VFX-Wolverine39-012.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/Wolverine/tn_VFX-Wolverine39-013.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/Wolverine/tn_VFX-Wolverine39-014.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/Wolverine/tn_VFX-Wolverine39-015.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/Wolverine/tn_VFX-Wolverine39-016.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/Wolverine/tn_VFX-Wolverine39-017.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/Wolverine/tn_VFX-Wolverine39-018.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/Wolverine/tn_VFX-Wolverine39-019.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/Wolverine/tn_VFX-Wolverine39-020.jpg

Theses scans prove that Bucky won't just run around and let him self be a target.

Against Canon Fodder

Bucky fights using armless combat. What is armless combat? Literally with no arms. Notable feat is his agility to be able to kick and one shot 3 men with one maneuver.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/Baron%20Zemo%20Jr/Canon%20Fodder/CA_32_DCP_0019.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/Baron%20Zemo%20Jr/Canon%20Fodder/CA_32_DCP_0023.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/Baron%20Zemo%20Jr/Canon%20Fodder/CA_32_DCP_0024.jpg

Against Canon Fodder with high tech gear of all kinds

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/Baron%20Zemo%20Jr/Canon%20Fodder/ca-23-016.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/Baron%20Zemo%20Jr/Canon%20Fodder/ca-23-017.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/Baron%20Zemo%20Jr/Canon%20Fodder/ca-23-018.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/Baron%20Zemo%20Jr/Canon%20Fodder/ca-23-019.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/Baron%20Zemo%20Jr/Canon%20Fodder/ca-23-020.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/Baron%20Zemo%20Jr/Canon%20Fodder/ca-23-021.jpg

Against more Canon fodder with high tech gear

Notable feats here are Bucky’s agility!

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/Baron%20Zemo%20Jr/Canon%20Fodder/CaptainAmerica50MrShepherd-Meganpg03.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/Baron%20Zemo%20Jr/Canon%20Fodder/CaptainAmerica50MrShepherd-Meganpg04.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/Baron%20Zemo%20Jr/Canon%20Fodder/CaptainAmerica50MrShepherd-Meganpg05.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/Baron%20Zemo%20Jr/Canon%20Fodder/CaptainAmerica50MrShepherd-Meganpg09.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/Baron%20Zemo%20Jr/Canon%20Fodder/CaptainAmerica50MrShepherd-Meganpg14.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/Baron%20Zemo%20Jr/Canon%20Fodder/CaptainAmerica50MrShepherd-Meganpg15.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/Baron%20Zemo%20Jr/Canon%20Fodder/CaptainAmerica50MrShepherd-Meganpg20.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/Baron%20Zemo%20Jr/Canon%20Fodder/CaptainAmerica50MrShepherd-Meganpg21.jpg

What theses scan provide are that Bucky doesn't just rely on guns he has grenades and knows how to use them. Also in melee combat he would use combat knives. I have provide scan of him using knives in previous post.

Online
#108 Posted by reikai (4335 posts) - - Show Bio

@i_like_swords: @cfrehse: Rikimaru trained people who deflect dozens of arrows, not just dodge them.

Rikimaru can disappear in nary an instant. He's a shinobi. It's what he does. It's what he is. On top of this, you also have items in the game that range from smoke bombs to invisibility scrolls. He even has items that make him appear as a normal citizen and disappear into the crowd.

Nvm smoke bombs, poison needles, shuriken, black powder bombs, exploding fire arrows and other goodies.

#109 Posted by Batman242 (4862 posts) - - Show Bio

@cfrehse said:

ezio can dodge arrows. you can do it in the game u just run away from the arrows. Plus the game mechanics don't really let u dodge them that easily. People haven't played the games. Watch all his cut scenes and you can see all the crazy stuff ezio does in all 3 games. I doubt any of these characters are going to even be able to track ezio under the OP circumstances. Streets in these games are packed. Ezio can disappear in moments. Also id don't think many street levelers could even catch ezio in rome. If he gets into a direct h2h confrontation with some of them i think maybe bats and a few others could top him but not easily. He has a massive advantage in this situation. I posted a video showing his fighting skill. He is flawless

All noteworthy points.

They all are, yea, but you have to remember, these comic characters won't stay grounded. They always have the option of looking from above. When a confrontation happens, people will give room and run away even.

Ezio has never really dodged arrows other than running away from them. (I am a little hazy on what happened in the series, but I just got Brotherhood back and I started playing again yesterday). You also have to keep in mind that Green Arrow is a marksman with a bow and arrow, and so is Clint.

#110 Edited by cfrehse (1004 posts) - - Show Bio

@reikai: i actually would put that guy way above a street leveler based on that video. He moved faster than humans can see

@batman242 i would actually like to see ezio vs green arrow or hawkeye. I dont think they would fire into a crowd though because of there morals. They do have trick arrows though which could cause problems for ezio

#111 Posted by i_like_swords (15765 posts) - - Show Bio

@thexx: You plucked that straight out of a respect thread for Bucky hahaha.

Bucky isn't limited to just guns. He has superior fighting skill (Hand to Hand Combat) Which i have provided scans for. Also Ezio has never faced somebody that uses guns he most likely doesn't have the reflexes to dodge bullets.

You're not getting the point. I'm fully aware that Bucky has hand-to-hand combat on his side (maybe not by much mind you) but Ezio isn't letting it get to that. And that is incorrect. Ezio has faced many opponents using guns. Not as advanced as modern day tech but he can tell a gun when he see's one. No one is saying Ezio can dodge bullets, but I'll explain why he isn't getting hit next:

And Bucky won't be shooting every civilian he sees he is a pretty damn good marksman. So if gets a line of sight on Ezio. Ezio is most likely going done. None of Ezio armor is going to stop modern ballistic bullets.

Yeah, the key word here being "if". With that much civilian traffic he's going to find it near impossible to hit a sprinting Ezio with all those civilians moving in and around his line of sight. If Ezio is feeling extra crafty he can throw a bag of gold coins near Bucky to attract civilians to him or drop a bomb that makes a large bang to cause a riot. Bucky isn't tagging Ezio.

You are correct Ezio has home filled advantage. But Bucky is a smart tactician he isn't just going to run around make him self a open target. He will come up with a plan to lure Ezio in and then attack. Bucky can also go on the hunt if he has to.

How is exactly would Bucky lure Ezio in? Please explain that one to me. Ezio has the home field advantage, is aware his opponent uses ranged weapons, and has all the options in the world of how to dispose of Bucky, and Bucky is going to lure him in? Not likely. Ezio would find it ideal for Bucky to go on the hunt.

What theses scan provide are that Bucky doesn't just rely on guns he has grenades and knows how to use them. Also in melee combat he would use combat knives. I have provide scan of him using knives in previous post.

Yes. I'm sure Bucky is going to start launching grenades through the streets of Rome that are flooded with innocent people. Next joke. All I have to say to the last bit is, don't bring a combat knife to dual hidden blade, sword, dagger, throwing knife, poison blade and smoke bomb fight. Again, none of that will be necessary since Ezio has a whole plethora of other options to deal with Bucky.

#112 Posted by reikai (4335 posts) - - Show Bio

@cfrehse: That's not above street level. That's like Cap America level. I mean hell, Leroy Green was slapping aside arrows shot at him from barely 10-15ft away, while training, and still caught the one he wasn't supposed to break. And then achieved "The Glow" by the end of the story.

#113 Posted by SOG7dc (7493 posts) - - Show Bio

@i_like_swords

id say that Achilles advantages are his level of skill. I don't think Ezio would even come close. Achilles was a demi-god. id wager a bet to say he's Ezio's Physical superior as far as sriking strength, combat quickness, combat intelligence and tactical mind. Ezio is obviously more agile and he has the gadgets that Achilles would have no idea existed. Achilles has a shield to defend against basically all of Ezio's projectiles and yes that includes his primitive bullets. Ezio has an advantage knowing the area and his stealth capabilities. but Achilles is so smart a combatant and so aggressive I don't think he'd give Ezio the chance for stealth....I give this fight to Achilles because Achilles would make Ezio cross blades with him. and the moment Ezio draws his sword he's a deadman

#114 Posted by Batman242 (4862 posts) - - Show Bio

@cfrehse: Civilians usually spread out and give them room in a fight. They're not gonna just stand around once the battle starts. The only time Ezio can use the civilians are in the beginning of the match to blend in. Other than that, he's out in the open.

#115 Edited by i_like_swords (15765 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc said:

@i_like_swords:

oh I know all about Ezio if played every AC game multiple times. but you said they start 50 visible meters away and we cant forget how bada$$ Achilles is. he barely broke a sweat the entire movie. in fact the only time he looked like he was even remotely trying was when he fought Hector. and he was still toying with Hector basically the whole fight. and can Ezio line up an accurate shot with his gun before Achilles can get that deadly spear throw off? I highly doubt it. the bombs wont count for much here because of Achilles shield and Achilles is basically the best fighter ever, his only Achilles heel being....well his heel. a heel that Ezio wouldn't know about. so the way I see this happening is Achilles throwing the spear, Ezio just barely dodging, Achilles drawing his sword. and then the rest of the fight would be a copy of Achilles vs. Hector. Ezio would die and "wander the underworld blind deaf and dumb and they will say there goes Ezio; the fool who thought he could kill Achilles."

Couple of things.

  1. No one is faulting Achilles' stamina, nor Ezios. They're both similarly fit so I don't think that really comes into it.
  2. He can. If you've played the games you'll notice how quickly Ezio can gun down his opponents. Achilles will be standing still, will need to gain reasonable momentum, make sure he doesn't hit a civilian, and throw his spear. Meanwhile Ezio lifts his wrist and cracks off a bullet at the momentarily occupied Achilles
  3. I don't think his shield nor his armor could defend against a bomb loaded with either shrapnel, gas or coal. Also there are other things like skunk oil designed to incapacitate, lamb blood designed to shock/scare, smoke bombs.. bombs are definitely a huge bonus for Ezio here.
  4. In the movie Achilles isn't shown to be invulnerable like the myth. At the start the little boy says to him something like "Is it true, that you're invincible, that you can't die" to which Achilles responds "I wouldn't be bother with the shield then would I". Also there was the moment Hector tagged Achilles in their fight. He seemed to experience pain implying he isn't invulnerable.
  5. Here's how your plan would work out: Achilles throws his spear at Ezio who is already sprinting away. His spear misses/hits a civilian. Ezio throws a bag of coins in the direction of Achilles. Civilians swarm around him giving Ezio even more time to escape. Ezio climbs a building over Achilles and stalks him. Achilles will be completely unaware and the idea of roof combat would be entirely foreign to him. Long story short all it takes from there is a crossbow, gunshot, poison dart, throwing knife, bomb... plenty of things, to kill Achilles.
#116 Posted by i_like_swords (15765 posts) - - Show Bio

@cfrehse: Civilians usually spread out and give them room in a fight. They're not gonna just stand around once the battle starts. The only time Ezio can use the civilians are in the beginning of the match to blend in. Other than that, he's out in the open.

Ezio won't try to blend in with civilians. Ezio can make it seem like there isn't a fight by running away from the get go. He also has the option of throwing money at his opponent to have the civilians swarm around him, or throw a bomb which creates a loud bang to send the civilians into a riot.

#117 Posted by SOG7dc (7493 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc said:

@i_like_swords:

oh I know all about Ezio if played every AC game multiple times. but you said they start 50 visible meters away and we cant forget how bada$$ Achilles is. he barely broke a sweat the entire movie. in fact the only time he looked like he was even remotely trying was when he fought Hector. and he was still toying with Hector basically the whole fight. and can Ezio line up an accurate shot with his gun before Achilles can get that deadly spear throw off? I highly doubt it. the bombs wont count for much here because of Achilles shield and Achilles is basically the best fighter ever, his only Achilles heel being....well his heel. a heel that Ezio wouldn't know about. so the way I see this happening is Achilles throwing the spear, Ezio just barely dodging, Achilles drawing his sword. and then the rest of the fight would be a copy of Achilles vs. Hector. Ezio would die and "wander the underworld blind deaf and dumb and they will say there goes Ezio; the fool who thought he could kill Achilles."

Couple of things.

  1. No one is faulting Achilles' stamina, nor Ezios. They're both similarly fit so I don't think that really comes into it.
  2. He can. If you've played the games you'll notice how quickly Ezio can gun down his opponents. Achilles will be standing still, will need to gain reasonable momentum, make sure he doesn't hit a civilian, and throw his spear. Meanwhile Ezio lifts his wrist and cracks off a bullet at the momentarily occupied Achilles
  3. I don't think his shield nor his armor could defend against a bomb loaded with either shrapnel, gas or coal. Also there are other things like skunk oil designed to incapacitate, lamb blood designed to shock/scare, smoke bombs.. bombs are definitely a huge bonus for Ezio here.
  4. In the movie Achilles isn't shown to be invulnerable like the myth. At the start the little boy says to him something like "Is it true, that you're invincible, that you can't die" to which Achilles responds "I wouldn't be bother with the shield then would I". Also there was the moment Hector tagged Achilles in their fight. He seemed to experience pain implying he isn't invulnerable.
  5. Here's how your plan would work out: Achilles throws his spear at Ezio who is already sprinting away. His spear misses/hits a civilian. Ezio throws a bag of coins in the direction of Achilles. Civilians swarm around him giving Ezio even more time to escape. Ezio climbs a building over Achilles and stalks him. Achilles will be completely unaware and the idea of roof combat would be entirely foreign to him. Long story short all it takes from there is a crossbow, gunshot, poison dart, throwing knife, bomb... plenty of things, to kill Achilles.

-ill grant you point number 1

-I did play the games and Ezio takes at least as much time as it would take Achilles to throw the spear for Ezio to get an accurate shot.

-his shield is made of brass that's more than enough to deflect the shrapnel. the only bomb Ezio could use to an advantage is the smoke bombs or the ones meant to distract

-he didn't hit chilles he hit his breastplate and that looked like pain to u?? it looked like he just pissed Achilles off to me lol

-I think you really want Ezio to win lol I love him too though so I get it

#118 Posted by Batman242 (4862 posts) - - Show Bio

@batman242 said:

@cfrehse: Civilians usually spread out and give them room in a fight. They're not gonna just stand around once the battle starts. The only time Ezio can use the civilians are in the beginning of the match to blend in. Other than that, he's out in the open.

Ezio won't try to blend in with civilians. Ezio can make it seem like there isn't a fight by running away from the get go. He also has the option of throwing money at his opponent to have the civilians swarm around him, or throw a bomb which creates a loud bang to send the civilians into a riot.

Valid points, but what is he going to do from there? Get up high? I don't see that working exactly, because they won't stay in a position where they're out in the open as a target for anything.

Hmmm, I don't use the money or bombs much in my fights. I should probably use em from now on. :D

#119 Posted by SOG7dc (7493 posts) - - Show Bio

@i_like_swords:

and Achilles wouldn't care bout killing a civilian lol

#120 Edited by i_like_swords (15765 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc said:

@i_like_swords said:

@sog7dc said:

@i_like_swords:

oh I know all about Ezio if played every AC game multiple times. but you said they start 50 visible meters away and we cant forget how bada$$ Achilles is. he barely broke a sweat the entire movie. in fact the only time he looked like he was even remotely trying was when he fought Hector. and he was still toying with Hector basically the whole fight. and can Ezio line up an accurate shot with his gun before Achilles can get that deadly spear throw off? I highly doubt it. the bombs wont count for much here because of Achilles shield and Achilles is basically the best fighter ever, his only Achilles heel being....well his heel. a heel that Ezio wouldn't know about. so the way I see this happening is Achilles throwing the spear, Ezio just barely dodging, Achilles drawing his sword. and then the rest of the fight would be a copy of Achilles vs. Hector. Ezio would die and "wander the underworld blind deaf and dumb and they will say there goes Ezio; the fool who thought he could kill Achilles."

Couple of things.

  1. No one is faulting Achilles' stamina, nor Ezios. They're both similarly fit so I don't think that really comes into it.
  2. He can. If you've played the games you'll notice how quickly Ezio can gun down his opponents. Achilles will be standing still, will need to gain reasonable momentum, make sure he doesn't hit a civilian, and throw his spear. Meanwhile Ezio lifts his wrist and cracks off a bullet at the momentarily occupied Achilles
  3. I don't think his shield nor his armor could defend against a bomb loaded with either shrapnel, gas or coal. Also there are other things like skunk oil designed to incapacitate, lamb blood designed to shock/scare, smoke bombs.. bombs are definitely a huge bonus for Ezio here.
  4. In the movie Achilles isn't shown to be invulnerable like the myth. At the start the little boy says to him something like "Is it true, that you're invincible, that you can't die" to which Achilles responds "I wouldn't be bother with the shield then would I". Also there was the moment Hector tagged Achilles in their fight. He seemed to experience pain implying he isn't invulnerable.
  5. Here's how your plan would work out: Achilles throws his spear at Ezio who is already sprinting away. His spear misses/hits a civilian. Ezio throws a bag of coins in the direction of Achilles. Civilians swarm around him giving Ezio even more time to escape. Ezio climbs a building over Achilles and stalks him. Achilles will be completely unaware and the idea of roof combat would be entirely foreign to him. Long story short all it takes from there is a crossbow, gunshot, poison dart, throwing knife, bomb... plenty of things, to kill Achilles.

-ill grant you point number 1

-I did play the games and Ezio takes at least as much time as it would take Achilles to throw the spear for Ezio to get an accurate shot.

-his shield is made of brass that's more than enough to deflect the shrapnel. the only bomb Ezio could use to an advantage is the smoke bombs or the ones meant to distract

-he didn't hit chilles he hit his breastplate and that looked like pain to u?? it looked like he just pissed Achilles off to me lol

-I think you really want Ezio to win lol I love him too though so I get it

He doesn't really. Both are quick but Ezio doesn't need to get momentum and line up a thrown projectile. He points and fires a gun from his wrist. Aside from that bullets are so much faster than spears. Range - Ezio

A bullet could go through his shield easily considering spears were piercing it. You had no answer for Ezios explosive. The shrapnel could pierce anywhere from Achilles legs (heel hehe) arms, neck.. anywhere the shield isn't covering. Bombs still a massive advantage here.

Achilles took a step back when Hector caught him and looked down. Whenever you cut yourself you immediately look to the wound to check for damage. Achilles looked reasonably taken aback IMO. Still, the point there was Achilles isn't invulnerable.

I'd be happy to see either win I'm just expressing why I think Ezio has the upper hand here. I'm a big Achilles fan as well as of Ezio. No bias.

@guardiandevil83 said:

Heres my list.

Clint Barton: Hawkeye is one of the best purely human acrobats in the Marvel universe. He is also incredibly accurate with that Bow of his. He has tagged Speedsters, like The Whizzer and Speed Demon. He would have to take out Ezio immediately, the longer they fight, the better chance Ezio has of finding cover.

Taskmaster: Dude has the compiled acrobatic knowledge of the already mentioned Clint Barton, Matt Murdock, Steve Rogers, and Peter Parker. He is no stranger to stealth, can copy all of Ezios moves in minutes, and is versed in many forms of fighting. Weapons or Hand to Hand. He should be able to close any gap the two have between them and match the Assassin blow for blow.

Jason Todd: He is a Robin who is not afraid to kill. Scary. But seriously, this kid is a monster. Super Powered opponents, skilled killers, Jason has fought it. And the dude schooled an armed swat unit in a bath towel. He should not be fazed by smoke bombs, and if he can sense Dick or Bruce, should pick up Ezio if it comes to hide and seek.

Classic Kraven: Dude gave Spider-Man trouble before any enhancements, wrestled Lions, and could track anyone. Locating Ezio should not be a problem, Kraven could blitz Parker, and lets not forget Kraven usually kept some form of anti-venom or vaccine. He could possibly have something to counter the poisons Ezios has.

Hawkeye has a great chance out of everyone. I mean I think it could go either way but still Ezio has a lot of advantages that I've already pointed out. I'll give you Hawkeye.

Taskmaster does technically have a superhuman power in the respect of his memory so he's a bit OP for this, although I don't suspect he fairs that much better than anyone else listed.

Jason is an interesting opponent. He might be able to sense someone sneaking up on him, but he can't sense a bullet in the head or any other silent/poisoned projectile. I feel Ezio would be able to evade Todd via manipulating pedestrians and get himself into a good position to seal the deal on him.

Kraven is very interesting and may pose a good threat here. Still he has a worrying lack of armor and Ezio has a whole plethora of weaponry to use against him.

#121 Posted by i_like_swords (15765 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc said:

@i_like_swords:

and Achilles wouldn't care bout killing a civilian lol

Perhaps not but it's a wasted spear and him going to retrieve it just gives Ezio more time to plan his attack.

@i_like_swords said:

@batman242 said:

@cfrehse: Civilians usually spread out and give them room in a fight. They're not gonna just stand around once the battle starts. The only time Ezio can use the civilians are in the beginning of the match to blend in. Other than that, he's out in the open.

Ezio won't try to blend in with civilians. Ezio can make it seem like there isn't a fight by running away from the get go. He also has the option of throwing money at his opponent to have the civilians swarm around him, or throw a bomb which creates a loud bang to send the civilians into a riot.

Valid points, but what is he going to do from there? Get up high? I don't see that working exactly, because they won't stay in a position where they're out in the open as a target for anything.

Hmmm, I don't use the money or bombs much in my fights. I should probably use em from now on. :D

Perhaps. I believe he'd plan his route accordingly and choose a good position to shoot from. I see Ezio tagging his opponent as they come round a corner, just as Ezio predicts. He can also leave traps but I haven't given him those bombs in this fight.

Honestly, I don't much either. My favorite is the blood bomb, it works very well.

#122 Posted by ThexX (1573 posts) - - Show Bio

@i_like_swords: And whats the problem with using a respect thread for scans. Maybe i don't want to take the time and gather all those scans and put them in folder.

First Bucky uses Smoke grenades and knows how to fight in smoke. Ezio Smoke bombs are a none factor here. Secondly Ezio Throwing knives and crossbow are also a none factor. Bucky has dodged and caught arrows fired by Hawkeye (Clint), Also Bucky has deflected Black Widows Strings at point blank range. Third, Bucky has fought against some pretty damn good hand to hand fighters that also use weapons. So some guy name Ezio isn't going to be a problem no matter what weapon he is carrying. Finally you obvious don't know the dramatic deference between firearms from 1500s -1600s to year 2013. So let me explain first the reload time between a modern firearm and musket monsters the average reload time for a modern gun is around 2-3 seconds, while the reload time of musket was around 1 minute, secondly the speed a bullet travel is also ridiculous a average musket ball travels at 950 feet per second and is extremely inaccurate while a modern firearm bullet travels at 2,346 per second and is extremely accurate (A basic army marksman can put numerous rounds on target from 350 yards away while the target is moving)(A basic Marine can but rounds into a stationary target at 500 yards away). Finally Modern Firearms hold averagely 30 rounds for assault rifles and 12 rounds for a pistol. While 1500s - 1600s muskets and pistols only holds 1 round. So this fight will come done to close quarters fighting no matter what. And Bucky isn't going to let Ezio sneak up on him. You go to remember Bucky is expert in stealth and has extensive Military Special forces training. Meaning he is going let his guard down. Also to point out Bucky Winter Soldier suit is impact resistant and is bullet proof (Modern Bullets)

Also again here are some of Bucky marksman feats. (Basically if Bucky gets a line of sight on Ezio there is nothing he can do other the throw a smoke bomb down.) And I already proved you scans of Bucky fighting skill so.

After getting shot plus cracking a few ribs, falling out of a window and landing a few stories below, he shoots Crossbones multiple times. Shield reports later that NO INTERNAL ORGANS were hit.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Marksmanship/CA_36_DCP12.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Marksmanship/CA_36_DCP13.jpg

More taking out randoms:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Marksmanship/CaptainAmerica046Zone-Avengerpg23.jpg

Manages to fire single explosive round into an assault rifle while the guy is running with a gun tucked under his arm.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Marksmanship/WinterSoldier04014.jpg

Shoots Madame Masque in her mask.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Marksmanship/NewAvengers53MrShepherd-Meganpg21.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Marksmanship/NewAvengers53MrShepherd-Meganpg22.jpg

Shoots Daken in the back of the head while Wolverine and Daken are about to fight

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Marksmanship/Origins25-016.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Marksmanship/Origins25-017.jpg

Hawkeye fires 3 arrows at Bucky. Bucky manages to shoot them all in midair.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Marksmanship/WinterSoldier013-Zone-010.jpg

Here is some more scan of Bucky fighting skill.

Against 50s Captain America:

50s Captain America has 2 ton strength. Bucky has commented that 50s Captain America is twice as strong, fast and durable as Steve. Bucky also commented that Steve is 3 times faster, stronger and durable as himself. This makes 50s cap 6 times all the stats of Bucky who is only peak human. No big deal, Bucky still kicks his ass.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/50s%20Cap/CaptainAmerica40Zone-Meganpg03.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/50s%20Cap/CaptainAmerica40Zone-Meganpg04.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/50s%20Cap/CaptainAmerica40Zone-Meganpg05.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/50s%20Cap/CaptainAmerica40Zone-Meganpg08.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/50s%20Cap/CaptainAmerica40Zone-Meganpg09.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/50s%20Cap/CaptainAmerica40Zone-Meganpg10.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/50s%20Cap/CaptainAmerica40Zone-Meganpg13.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/50s%20Cap/CaptainAmerica40Zone-Meganpg14.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/50s%20Cap/CaptainAmerica40Zone-Meganpg15.jpg

This time Bucky did not have a shield, only his arm. He still beats 50s Cap and then shoots him multiple times. We all know 50s Cap will be back again.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/50s%20Cap/CaptainAmerica605Shepherd-Meganpg06.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/50s%20Cap/CaptainAmerica605Shepherd-Meganpg10.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/50s%20Cap/CaptainAmerica605Shepherd-Meganpg11.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/50s%20Cap/CaptainAmerica605Shepherd-Meganpg15.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/50s%20Cap/CaptainAmerica605Shepherd-Meganpg16.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/50s%20Cap/CaptainAmerica605Shepherd-Meganpg17.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/50s%20Cap/CaptainAmerica605Shepherd-Meganpg18.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/50s%20Cap/CaptainAmerica605Shepherd-Meganpg20.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/50s%20Cap/CaptainAmerica605Shepherd-Meganpg21.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Fighting%20Ability/50s%20Cap/CaptainAmerica605Shepherd-Meganpg22.jpg

Online
#123 Posted by Batman242 (4862 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc said:

@i_like_swords:

and Achilles wouldn't care bout killing a civilian lol

Perhaps not but it's a wasted spear and him going to retrieve it just gives Ezio more time to plan his attack.

@batman242 said:

@i_like_swords said:

@batman242 said:

@cfrehse: Civilians usually spread out and give them room in a fight. They're not gonna just stand around once the battle starts. The only time Ezio can use the civilians are in the beginning of the match to blend in. Other than that, he's out in the open.

Ezio won't try to blend in with civilians. Ezio can make it seem like there isn't a fight by running away from the get go. He also has the option of throwing money at his opponent to have the civilians swarm around him, or throw a bomb which creates a loud bang to send the civilians into a riot.

Valid points, but what is he going to do from there? Get up high? I don't see that working exactly, because they won't stay in a position where they're out in the open as a target for anything.

Hmmm, I don't use the money or bombs much in my fights. I should probably use em from now on. :D

Perhaps. I believe he'd plan his route accordingly and choose a good position to shoot from. I see Ezio tagging his opponent as they come round a corner, just as Ezio predicts. He can also leave traps but I haven't given him those bombs in this fight.

Honestly, I don't much either. My favorite is the blood bomb, it works very well.

Oh, right, we're using Revelations Ezio. I forgot lol. I didn't use bombs in Revelations much, 'cause I was more into the hookblade and tossing people's heads around with my sword. I don't even have that game anymore.

Now, I can't really debate because I don't really remember what Revelations Ezio is capable of.

#124 Posted by SOG7dc (7493 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc said:

@i_like_swords said:

@sog7dc said:

@i_like_swords:

oh I know all about Ezio if played every AC game multiple times. but you said they start 50 visible meters away and we cant forget how bada$$ Achilles is. he barely broke a sweat the entire movie. in fact the only time he looked like he was even remotely trying was when he fought Hector. and he was still toying with Hector basically the whole fight. and can Ezio line up an accurate shot with his gun before Achilles can get that deadly spear throw off? I highly doubt it. the bombs wont count for much here because of Achilles shield and Achilles is basically the best fighter ever, his only Achilles heel being....well his heel. a heel that Ezio wouldn't know about. so the way I see this happening is Achilles throwing the spear, Ezio just barely dodging, Achilles drawing his sword. and then the rest of the fight would be a copy of Achilles vs. Hector. Ezio would die and "wander the underworld blind deaf and dumb and they will say there goes Ezio; the fool who thought he could kill Achilles."

Couple of things.

  1. No one is faulting Achilles' stamina, nor Ezios. They're both similarly fit so I don't think that really comes into it.
  2. He can. If you've played the games you'll notice how quickly Ezio can gun down his opponents. Achilles will be standing still, will need to gain reasonable momentum, make sure he doesn't hit a civilian, and throw his spear. Meanwhile Ezio lifts his wrist and cracks off a bullet at the momentarily occupied Achilles
  3. I don't think his shield nor his armor could defend against a bomb loaded with either shrapnel, gas or coal. Also there are other things like skunk oil designed to incapacitate, lamb blood designed to shock/scare, smoke bombs.. bombs are definitely a huge bonus for Ezio here.
  4. In the movie Achilles isn't shown to be invulnerable like the myth. At the start the little boy says to him something like "Is it true, that you're invincible, that you can't die" to which Achilles responds "I wouldn't be bother with the shield then would I". Also there was the moment Hector tagged Achilles in their fight. He seemed to experience pain implying he isn't invulnerable.
  5. Here's how your plan would work out: Achilles throws his spear at Ezio who is already sprinting away. His spear misses/hits a civilian. Ezio throws a bag of coins in the direction of Achilles. Civilians swarm around him giving Ezio even more time to escape. Ezio climbs a building over Achilles and stalks him. Achilles will be completely unaware and the idea of roof combat would be entirely foreign to him. Long story short all it takes from there is a crossbow, gunshot, poison dart, throwing knife, bomb... plenty of things, to kill Achilles.

-ill grant you point number 1

-I did play the games and Ezio takes at least as much time as it would take Achilles to throw the spear for Ezio to get an accurate shot.

-his shield is made of brass that's more than enough to deflect the shrapnel. the only bomb Ezio could use to an advantage is the smoke bombs or the ones meant to distract

-he didn't hit chilles he hit his breastplate and that looked like pain to u?? it looked like he just pissed Achilles off to me lol

-I think you really want Ezio to win lol I love him too though so I get it

He doesn't really. Both are quick but Ezio doesn't need to get momentum and line up a thrown projectile. He points and fires a gun from his wrist. Aside from that bullets are so much faster than spears. Range - Ezio

A bullet could go through his shield easily considering spears were piercing it. You had no answer for Ezios explosive. The shrapnel could pierce anywhere from Achilles legs (heel hehe) arms, neck.. anywhere the shield isn't covering. Bombs still a massive advantage here.

Achilles took a step back when Hector caught him and looked down. Whenever you cut yourself you immediately look to the wound to check for damage. Achilles looked reasonably taken aback IMO. Still, the point there was Achilles isn't invulnerable.

I'd be happy to see either win I'm just expressing why I think Ezio has the upper hand here. I'm a big Achilles fan as well as of Ezio. No bias.

@guardiandevil83 said:

Heres my list.

Clint Barton: Hawkeye is one of the best purely human acrobats in the Marvel universe. He is also incredibly accurate with that Bow of his. He has tagged Speedsters, like The Whizzer and Speed Demon. He would have to take out Ezio immediately, the longer they fight, the better chance Ezio has of finding cover.

Taskmaster: Dude has the compiled acrobatic knowledge of the already mentioned Clint Barton, Matt Murdock, Steve Rogers, and Peter Parker. He is no stranger to stealth, can copy all of Ezios moves in minutes, and is versed in many forms of fighting. Weapons or Hand to Hand. He should be able to close any gap the two have between them and match the Assassin blow for blow.

Jason Todd: He is a Robin who is not afraid to kill. Scary. But seriously, this kid is a monster. Super Powered opponents, skilled killers, Jason has fought it. And the dude schooled an armed swat unit in a bath towel. He should not be fazed by smoke bombs, and if he can sense Dick or Bruce, should pick up Ezio if it comes to hide and seek.

Classic Kraven: Dude gave Spider-Man trouble before any enhancements, wrestled Lions, and could track anyone. Locating Ezio should not be a problem, Kraven could blitz Parker, and lets not forget Kraven usually kept some form of anti-venom or vaccine. He could possibly have something to counter the poisons Ezios has.

Hawkeye has a great chance out of everyone. I mean I think it could go either way but still Ezio has a lot of advantages that I've already pointed out. I'll give you Hawkeye.

Taskmaster does technically have a superhuman power in the respect of his memory so he's a bit OP for this, although I don't suspect he fairs that much better than anyone else listed.

Jason is an interesting opponent. He might be able to sense someone sneaking up on him, but he can't sense a bullet in the head or any other silent/poisoned projectile. I feel Ezio would be able to evade Todd via manipulating pedestrians and get himself into a good position to seal the deal on him.

Kraven is very interesting and may pose a good threat here. Still he has a worrying lack of armor and Ezio has a whole plethora of weaponry to use against him.

dude he took at least 2-3 seconds to line up a shot and then fire. (im referring to the first game which are you talking about? because I know for a fact that in the first game it too him at the very least 2 seconds to aim and then shoot and Achilles could get off a throw way quicker thn that. as a QB I get timed all the time on my releases and mine is consistently under .45 seconds)

and its a brass shield it should be able to block a primitive low caliber bullet fired from Ezios wrist and don't forget the armour Achilles wheres that covers his head, his body from his neck to his waist and his shins that are all brass

and in that scene. hector sliced the breastplate, Achilles looked down. there was no blood and no painful exclamation. so there is 0 evidence that it pierced his skin.

and Ezio would have to figure a way to kill Achilles from far away because, and I think we can agree, that Achilles curbstomps him in a sword fight

#125 Posted by i_like_swords (15765 posts) - - Show Bio

@thexx said:

@i_like_swords: And whats the problem with using a respect thread for scans. Maybe i don't want to take the time and gather all those scans and put them in folder.

First Bucky uses Smoke grenades and knows how to fight in smoke. Ezio Smoke bombs are a none factor here. Secondly Ezio Throwing knives and crossbow are also a none factor. Bucky has dodged and caught arrows fired by Hawkeye (Clint), Also Bucky has deflected Black Widows Strings at point blank range. Third, Bucky has fought against some pretty damn good hand to hand fighters that also use weapons. So some guy name Ezio isn't going to be a problem no matter what weapon he is carrying. Finally you obvious don't know the dramatic deference between firearms from 1500s -1600s to year 2013. So let me explain first the reload time between a modern firearm and musket monsters the average reload time for a modern gun is around 2-3 seconds, while the reload time of musket was around 1 minute, secondly the speed a bullet travel is also ridiculous a average musket ball travels at 950 feet per second and is extremely inaccurate while a modern firearm bullet travels at 2,346 per second and is extremely accurate (A basic army marksman can put numerous rounds on target from 350 yards away while the target is moving)(A basic Marine can but rounds into a stationary target at 500 yards away). Finally Modern Firearms hold averagely 30 rounds for assault rifles and 12 rounds for a pistol. While 1500s - 1600s muskets and pistols only holds 1 round. So this fight will come done to close quarters fighting no matter what. And Bucky isn't going to let Ezio sneak up on him. You go to remember Bucky is expert in stealth and has extensive Military Special forces training. Meaning he is going let his guard down. Also to point out Bucky Winter Soldier suit is impact resistant and is bullet proof (Modern Bullets)

Would of been nice to see you counter me point for point but I'll continue.

Your logic in how this fight will play out is flawed. You can go on and on about how in an even confrontation Winter Soldier is superior but that isn't the point. Ezio is a master Assassin. He is constantly outnumbered and out-armored by opponents. He has to fight them on uneven terms. That's how he will fight Bucky.

Okay... Bucky throws a smoke. Ezio has already thrown money at Bucky or dropped a bomb-scare into the crowd, making it hard for Bucky to begin chasing Ezio. If anything throwing a smoke here is a waste of time and hinders Bucky more than anything.

Here's the thing. Ezio isn't going to be throwing them at Bucky in an even confrontation. Ezios whole plan here is to become undetected and launch his projectile without Bucky knowing until it hits him. He has a number of lethal silent projectiles an unknowing Bucky couldn't dodge. His gun is to hard to dodge if Bucky is nonethewiser, as is his crossbow. Point is, Ezio just needs the right position and Bucky to not be able to see him, for a split second, and it's game over. Ezio is easily capable of this considering his equipment and the location.

YOU obviously haven't played Assassins Creed my friend. Newsflash: Ezio isn't carrying around a musket rifle. He's carrying a gun located up his sleeve. It takes a split second to line up and fire and about to seconds to reload. Ezio can have a field day with this thing. Ezio gets range on Bucky and I don't care how much of a difference the speed of firearms are, Ezios gun is still a gun and will be too fast for an unknowing Bucky to avoid.

No, it isn't coming down to close quarters no matter what. There are so many different ways for Ezio to open the gap it isn't even funny. Ezio doesn't even need to sneak up on Bucky when he has his projectiles, although I doubt he couldn't. Ezio is very skilled in stealth being a master assassin and all, and considering it's midday and the streets are flooded with people, Bucky won't be able to pick Ezios footsteps out above other peoples. Not saying Ezio needs to get close, just saying he can.

Third, Bucky has fought against some pretty damn good hand to hand fighters that also use weapons. So some guy named Ezio isn't going to be a problem no matter what weapon he is carrying.

Calling all AC fans. Please feel free to tear this man to shreds, as he has insulted our loved assassin icon that is Ezio Auditore De Firenze. Seriously you don't seem to know a great ton about Ezio. You thought he used a musket that needs a 1 minute reload lol.

#126 Posted by i_like_swords (15765 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc said:

dude he took at least 2-3 seconds to line up a shot and then fire. (im referring to the first game which are you talking about? because I know for a fact that in the first game it too him at the very least 2 seconds to aim and then shoot and Achilles could get off a throw way quicker thn that. as a QB I get timed all the time on my releases and mine is consistently under .45 seconds)

and its a brass shield it should be able to block a primitive low caliber bullet fired from Ezios wrist and don't forget the armour Achilles wheres that covers his head, his body from his neck to his waist and his shins that are all brass

and in that scene. hector sliced the breastplate, Achilles looked down. there was no blood and no painful exclamation. so there is 0 evidence that it pierced his skin.

and Ezio would have to figure a way to kill Achilles from far away because, and I think we can agree, that Achilles curbstomps him in a sword fight

I'm referring to Revelations Ezio and I can confidently say it doesn't take 2-3 seconds to line up a shot and fire. It takes at most 1 second.

Think about this for a second. The enemies in Assassins creed wear STEEL armor. Ezios "primitive low caliber bullet" (which is actually a good thousand years + more advanced than bloody brass) can easily pierce that armor and kill his enemies. He'll have 0 issues putting it through Achilles' armor and shield. You're misinformed about Ezios firearms as well as Achilles' armor mate.

Okay but just saying, he isn't invulnerable.

I've talked plenty about how Ezio takes him from a distance. Arguably Ezio could take Achilles in a sword fight. Much more advanced tech, more advanced sword technique thanks to a thousand+ years of advancement, plenty of goodies in terms of bombs, hidden blades, throwing knives, an extra dagger. Also much superior armor. They have similar experience although I'd argue and say Ezio has more considering the vast age difference, however Achilles has fought in wars so that evens it out. Ezio is no stranger to fighting multiple opponents, though. Point being, Ezios versatility wins this in the end, it's not a sword fight. Nor is this fight in any way in favor of Achilles.

#127 Posted by SOG7dc (7493 posts) - - Show Bio

@i_like_swords:

ok in revelations he got shots off a lot quicker than in AC2.

ehh if your just accepting the fantasy of it all then yes it could pierce the shield and armor. but realistically the size of the bullet in the size of the gun fashioned to be a bracelet couldn't, in real life, pierce steel or brass. hell teddy Roosevelt stopped a bullet with a folded up speech in his pocket. but if we're referring to the mythos then yes you are correct that it could pierce the shield and the armor. im plenty informed I just have a different train of thought.

duly noted.

and I highly doubt ezio would have even a slight chance of survival if he crossed blades with Achilles. as I said before I believe that Achilles would be stronger than Ezio because he displayed more feats of striking power than Ezio. he did cut the head off of a solid gold statue. and Ezio did nothing close to that in any game. no doubt ezio is incredibly skilled but Achilles is possibly the greatest mythological swordsman. I mean just check out the fight again:

that's Achilles fighting the best TROY had to offer. barely broke a sweat. I don't believe, unless you can prove to me other wise because im willing to adjust my opinion if im wrong, that Ezio has a chance of even landing a solid blow to Achilles in a straight up sword fight

#128 Posted by Redxiii18881990 (454 posts) - - Show Bio

Ryu hyabusa would own him.

#129 Edited by i_like_swords (15765 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc: What fantasy is there... Assassins Creed is very closely based on real life events aside from the storyline about the apple of Eden. The templars were very real. Assassins I'm honestly not sure on but I don't doubt it. Point is, if brass was bullet proof we'd be wearing it today. Ezios bullets can go through steel easily, hell even his swords and crossbow can. Aside from that Achilles' face, neck, arms, and legs are all vulnerable.

INFACT explain this one to me. If Achilles' armor is bullet proof how on earth was Paris putting numerous arrows into him at the end? Yeah.

What striking feats has Achilles shown? Ezio is trained to break necks and fight unarmed against armed opponents. His training is a thousand years more advanced than Achilles'. I'm pretty sure Ezio can cut through gold haha. Achilles was the best of his time because of his natural godly heritage, but thanks to the advancements in training and equipment there is a whole bunch of people that could take him.

In a straight up sword fight? Well, here is the trailer for AC Revelations. I think that alone is evidence to show Ezios ability to hang with Achilles in the skill department. I can go hunting for more feats of his skill if we're going to discuss their swordsmanship. Trailer

In terms of this thread though, Achilles can't win. I am however willing to discuss how they would fair in a one on one fight. We could make a CAV thread if you want? It'd be interesting to debate the topic.

#130 Posted by ThexX (1573 posts) - - Show Bio

@i_like_swords: When have I ever said that Bucky would just throw a smoke grenades. i was stating that Ezio has really no advantage in smoke. Which it you don't remember is a damn good way to take large groups of enemies out in Assassin Creed. Secondly if Ezio throws gold down Bucky simple avoid the crowd on way are another and are simple just gives up the chase. To go plan his next attack.

Next I know Ezio won't be throwing his weapons in every confrontation. My point was is Bucky is either able to deflect our dodge any of Ezio's longe range attacks. My other piont is Bucky is wearing a suit that is impact resistant and Bullet proof. Meaning Ezio's hidden gun is not going to harm him unless it's a head shot. The reason why a posted the stats of musket is to inform you of the differences in firearm technology. I know Ezio doesn't use a muskets in Revelations.

Bucky is also a master assassin & a Spec Ops Soldier and is also master at stealth. Meaning he isn't going to be running around. He going to cunning and looking for openings. He also going to know where Ezio will be coming from because of his training. Next thing Bucky knows what Ezio looks like. So he can easily spot him in a crowd of people. So stop thinking Bucky is some idiot NPC in the game. Also Bucky can easily run the roofs tops just like Evio (I have provide scans of him donning so.) So Bucky can also use the roof tops to avoid the Crowds and to his advantage.

Next you stated that Ezio well be trying to line up shots on him with his weapons. But what you are forgetting is that. One Bucky is a trained soldier and assassin it is not going to be that easy to line up a shot on him. Bucky will be peaking corners, using the crowd just like Ezio (This is basic spy training which Bucky also has.) Also Bucky will be trying to line up shots to. And he has a major advantage with Modern Firearms. Meaning Bucky can have a line of sight on Ezio from 350 yards away are more and Ezio will never know whats coming and none of Evio's armor can protect him. Ezio's lethal range in game is probably around 25 yards because of his crossbow. While Bucky range is considerably more. A Modern handgun range is 25 yards and in trained hands like a soldier it can be up to 100 yards. Next a modern rifle range is around 350 yards to 600 yards and more depending on the training of the operator of the gun.

Final Bucky has the better gear. This is standard gear for Bucky (his Winter Soldier suit "which is impact resistant and Bullet proof", SHIELD Special Handgun "this gun has been shown to silenced and can be equipped with explosive rounds which have destroyed a Assault Rifle. it has also been shown to wind Ares", next Bucky will also be carrying a Assault Rifle or Battle Rifle, he will also have a assort meant of grenades "Frag, Smoke, Flash Bang". & lastly he will be carrying 1 are 2 combat knives.

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#131 Posted by SOG7dc (7493 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc: What fantasy is there... Assassins Creed is very closely based on real life events aside from the storyline about the apple of Eden. The templars were very real. Assassins I'm honestly not sure on but I don't doubt it. Point is, if brass was bullet proof we'd be wearing it today. Ezios bullets can go through steel easily, hell even his swords and crossbow can. Aside from that Achilles' face, neck, arms, and legs are all vulnerable.

INFACT explain this one to me. If Achilles' armor is bullet proof how on earth was Paris putting numerous arrows into him at the end? Yeah.

What striking feats has Achilles shown? Ezio is trained to break necks and fight unarmed against armed opponents. His training is a thousand years more advanced than Achilles'. I'm pretty sure Ezio can cut through gold haha. Achilles was the best of his time because of his natural godly heritage, but thanks to the advancements in training and equipment there is a whole bunch of people that could take him.

In a straight up sword fight? Well, here is the trailer for AC Revelations. I think that alone is evidence to show Ezios ability to hang with Achilles in the skill department. I can go hunting for more feats of his skill if we're going to discuss their swordsmanship. Trailer

In terms of this thread though, Achilles can't win. I am however willing to discuss how they would fair in a one on one fight. We could make a CAV thread if you want? It'd be interesting to debate the topic.

im speaking about the fantasy of a gun that small with a bullet that small piercing brass from 50 yards away. that just wouldn't be possible in real life.

Achilles dodged arrows like it was nothing

Achilles chopped off the head of a solid gold statue and Ezio doesn't have any feats to back up the claim that he can do the same

Achilles wasn't just the best in his time. its been quoted he was "the perfect warrior" aside from his heel of course. there was no flaw in his technique no weakness to exploit. no doubt tech plays a big role but if u give Achilles the same stuff as Ezio then my opinion on that is obvious. I think tech and knowledge of the terrain is Ezios only advantage because I don't think anyone is on Achilles level skill wise. especially with a sword.

I saw the trailer already but he was fighting no named henchmen with nowhere near the training he had. Achilles was fighting the best a mighty nation had to offer and he displayed the sme dominance. Achilles beating hector>>>>>Ezio beating nameless guys.

this particular battle is seriously leaning in Ezios favor and I get that's the point of the thread. but on equal footing. I think Achilles kills Ezio.

whats a CAV thread?

and I didn't mention them but this guy should have 0 trouble beating Ezio even in Florence:

#132 Edited by i_like_swords (15765 posts) - - Show Bio

@thexx said:

@i_like_swords: When have I ever said that Bucky would just throw a smoke grenades. i was stating that Ezio has really no advantage in smoke. Which it you don't remember is a damn good way to take large groups of enemies out in Assassin Creed. Secondly if Ezio throws gold down Bucky simple avoid the crowd on way are another and are simple just gives up the chase. To go plan his next attack.

Sorry I read what you said wrong. Just saying, the smoke isn't to fight in. Bucky can't hit what he can't see and Ezio will be well out of there after the smoke appears. Okay here I had no idea what you said. "Bucky simple avoid the crowd on way are another and are simple just gives up the chase." Bucky simply avoids the crowd? I don't know how to translate the rest of what you said. He can't simply avoid the crowd, that doesn't make sense. The crowd is there. He will have to push and shove through them. Okay so he gives up the chase and goes to plan. What exactly is his plan. He's in a foreign city and has no idea where Ezio is now where as Ezio has every possible rooftop or side street to choose from to wage his attack on Bucky. Please oh please tell me what plan Bucky could possibly have for this situation. Remember, he isn't the only one doing the hunting.

Next I know Ezio won't be throwing his weapons in every confrontation. My point was is Bucky is either able to deflect our dodge any of Ezio's longe range attacks. My other piont is Bucky is wearing a suit that is impact resistant and Bullet proof. Meaning Ezio's hidden gun is not going to harm him unless it's a head shot. The reason why a posted the stats of musket is to inform you of the differences in firearm technology. I know Ezio doesn't use a muskets in Revelations.

Okay well to counter your first point. He can't dodge or deflect a projectile he can't see or hear. A silent poison dart or throwing knife to the head is too quiet for him to react to, and a bullet or crossbow bolt is too fast to react to if he can't see it as it's being shot. Point is when Ezio is in a position where he is undetected, he simply has to let whatever projectile he wants loose and Bucky can't react to it. It will be a headshot. Ezio is a very keen shot. Okay well you don't really need to inform me about the difference between a musket and a machine gun, I'm not stupid. I'm very aware of what Ezios gun is capable of mate.

Bucky is also a master assassin & a Spec Ops Soldier and is also master at stealth. Meaning he isn't going to be running around. He going to cunning and looking for openings. He also going to know where Ezio will be coming from because of his training. Next thing Bucky knows what Ezio looks like. So he can easily spot him in a crowd of people. So stop thinking Bucky is some idiot NPC in the game. Also Bucky can easily run the roofs tops just like Evio (I have provide scans of him donning so.) So Bucky can also use the roof tops to avoid the Crowds and to his advantage.

Okay let's put it this way. If he isn't running around he's an easy target. This is because off the bat Ezio is going to escape his sight. After he does this Bucky can't see him, and he is in a foreign city. Ezio can come from absolutely anywhere he wants and pick off Bucky, especially if he isn't running. I'm well aware of Buckys skill but the fact is, if he walks around and keeps an eye out, he can't possibly keep an eye on every single angle at all times, and Ezio only needs a split second to let loose a shot. Now if Bucky chose to go ahead and chase Ezio straight up, he's screwed. Ezio can drop bombs behind him, make the crowd fall into whatever place he chooses to cut off Bucky, hide somewhere in the area like a haystack or well and anticipate Bucky. All Ezio would have to do is lead Bucky into whatever area of Rome he chooses and execute his plan for killing him. Bucky has no advantage in this respect. The fact that Ezio knows the city off by heart and it is completely foreign to Bucky means that Bucky will be forced into being the chaser. If Bucky waits for Ezio instead, he's dead that way too.

Next you stated that Ezio well be trying to line up shots on him with his weapons. But what you are forgetting is that. One Bucky is a trained soldier and assassin it is not going to be that easy to line up a shot on him. Bucky will be peaking corners, using the crowd just like Ezio (This is basic spy training which Bucky also has.) Also Bucky will be trying to line up shots to. And he has a major advantage with Modern Firearms. Meaning Bucky can have a line of sight on Ezio from 350 yards away are more and Ezio will never know whats coming and none of Evio's armor can protect him. Ezio's lethal range in game is probably around 25 yards because of his crossbow. While Bucky range is considerably more. A Modern handgun range is 25 yards and in trained hands like a soldier it can be up to 100 yards. Next a modern rifle range is around 350 yards to 600 yards and more depending on the training of the operator of the gun.

Yeah, not disputing Bucky has the advantage in firearms. Only thing is, I've explained how he won't have a target because Ezio can elude him long enough to get a clean shot. And the fight won't be any further than Ezios desired range.

Final Bucky has the better gear. This is standard gear for Bucky (his Winter Soldier suit "which is impact resistant and Bullet proof", SHIELD Special Handgun "this gun has been shown to silenced and can be equipped with explosive rounds which have destroyed a Assault Rifle. it has also been shown to wind Ares", next Bucky will also be carrying a Assault Rifle or Battle Rifle, he will also have a assort meant of grenades "Frag, Smoke, Flash Bang". & lastly he will be carrying 1 are 2 combat knives.

Not disputing that Bucky has the better gear, although it isn't that far off Ezios. Buckys head is vulnerable. He won't be throwing frag grenades in populated areas. Flash bangs are also questionable. Smoke grenades won't do the job they need to here because Ezio isn't hanging around. Ezio has a ton more blades to choose from and various projectiles, along with 9 different bombs, so those all factor in.

#133 Posted by i_like_swords (15765 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc: It won't be from 50 yards, likely 25. Either way it's piercing.

If I dug around I'm sure I could find a sufficient strength feat. Honestly it isn't that great a feat in terms of striking power. Ezio could do it easily.

Achilles wasn't just the best in his time. its been quoted he was "the perfect warrior" aside from his heel of course. there was no flaw in his technique no weakness to exploit. no doubt tech plays a big role but if u give Achilles the same stuff as Ezio then my opinion on that is obvious. I think tech and knowledge of the terrain is Ezios only advantage because I don't think anyone is on Achilles level skill wise. especially with a sword.

"The perfect warrior" is an example of hyperbole. It's when you say something that is exaggerated to add emphasis. "He moved as fast as lightning." For example. He wasn't literally perfect otherwise Hector wouldn't of tagged him or would of been able to block his swings. Everyone has flaws and in terms of weaknesses Achilles actually has more of a weakness in terms of armor.

I saw the trailer already but he was fighting no named henchmen with nowhere near the training he had. Achilles was fighting the best a mighty nation had to offer and he displayed the sme dominance. Achilles beating hector>>>>>Ezio beating nameless guys.

Yeah, the fact is the number of "no named henchmen" (aka trained soldiers). He was dodging all of their strikes, manuvering their strikes into eachothers, breaking necks, dispatching multiple enemies easily with his hidden blades.. it was very impressive and if I dig hard enough I will find someone with a good amount of skill that Ezio has beaten. Honestly, everyone in Troy was fodder except maybe Hector, so as soon as I find a good fight Ezio has won your argument is nullified.

CAV = Challenge a Viner. We both pick a character/team, debate, then let other viners vote on who wins. You up for it? We can agree on a setting and stuff. It'll be on even terms and you can show how skilled Achilles is in more detail :p

#134 Edited by slacker the hacker (7844 posts) - - Show Bio

@i_like_swords:

The number one assassin there is. (In his world anyway)

Vino

He's completely human but has to many absurd feats for Ezio to be a threat.

#135 Posted by hart7668 (2294 posts) - - Show Bio

@dratini1331: Let me put it to you this way:

Akira Hongo would take Richard Dragon, Lady Shiva, Batman, and [insert another street-leveler here] at the same time with the team getting prep, and he would destroy them. Easily. The Masters in History's Strongest Disciple Kenichi are well above peak human. I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if someone made an argument that Koetsuji could take Spiderman. Seriously. These guys are ridiculous. Kind of like Yujiro Hanma.

#136 Posted by i_like_swords (15765 posts) - - Show Bio

@slacker_the_hacker: Anime peak humans are the equivalent of the Flash in other media lol. Can't really be bothered debating but yeah.

#137 Posted by ThexX (1573 posts) - - Show Bio

@i_like_swords: First the reason you are having trouble understanding me is because I am dyslexia.

Next as for the plain its rather simple he simples goes in hides in a secure location. And take up a sniper position. Bucky will be carrying assault/battle rifle so he has a major advantage in range. also give himself a heads up if Ezio gets close he simple sets detection traps with the flash bang grenades are frag grenades. Before you say what about civilians he will make sure the spot he is in is very safe (Like a in the top of tree,a abandon building, or something like that.)

Okay you got a point about the poison dart. The problem is Ezio has be very close to use it. If I remember correctly it like 10 to 15 yards. And like I say Bucky has alot of Training to counter this type thing. He will be high alter after he loose sight of Ezio. For example after Bucky loose sight of Ezio, Bucky will realize he sticks out. So he simples knocks out some guy and steals his cloths and puts them on over his suit.

This is pretty much it. But if Bucky waits and hides how is he good as dead. If you remember correctly one of the enemy types the Arquebusiers who hide in reinforced outpost and shot you from there. Bucky would just do this but a 100 time betters.

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#138 Posted by i_like_swords (15765 posts) - - Show Bio

@thexx: I can safely say none of those plans would work. Ezio would be monitoring him the entire time he sets up a sniper spot or puts on someone elses clothes (really? haha).

Saying Bucky has training for something is an empty claim unless you back it up. You haven't really countered any of my points so I'll assume you concede to them.

I don't think you realize that Bucky wouldn't know to go find a reinforced outpost. Besides whoever is in the there will definitely object to him being there and by causing a row only increases Buckys chances of being caught (like he wasn't caught already).

#139 Edited by SOG7dc (7493 posts) - - Show Bio

@i_like_swords said:

@sog7dc: It won't be from 50 yards, likely 25. Either way it's piercing.

If I dug around I'm sure I could find a sufficient strength feat. Honestly it isn't that great a feat in terms of striking power. Ezio could do it easily.

Achilles wasn't just the best in his time. its been quoted he was "the perfect warrior" aside from his heel of course. there was no flaw in his technique no weakness to exploit. no doubt tech plays a big role but if u give Achilles the same stuff as Ezio then my opinion on that is obvious. I think tech and knowledge of the terrain is Ezios only advantage because I don't think anyone is on Achilles level skill wise. especially with a sword.

"The perfect warrior" is an example of hyperbole. It's when you say something that is exaggerated to add emphasis. "He moved as fast as lightning." For example. He wasn't literally perfect otherwise Hector wouldn't of tagged him or would of been able to block his swings. Everyone has flaws and in terms of weaknesses Achilles actually has more of a weakness in terms of armor.

I saw the trailer already but he was fighting no named henchmen with nowhere near the training he had. Achilles was fighting the best a mighty nation had to offer and he displayed the sme dominance. Achilles beating hector>>>>>Ezio beating nameless guys.

Yeah, the fact is the number of "no named henchmen" (aka trained soldiers). He was dodging all of their strikes, manuvering their strikes into eachothers, breaking necks, dispatching multiple enemies easily with his hidden blades.. it was very impressive and if I dig hard enough I will find someone with a good amount of skill that Ezio has beaten. Honestly, everyone in Troy was fodder except maybe Hector, so as soon as I find a good fight Ezio has won your argument is nullified.

CAV = Challenge a Viner. We both pick a character/team, debate, then let other viners vote on who wins. You up for it? We can agree on a setting and stuff. It'll be on even terms and you can show how skilled Achilles is in more detail :p

1. OP says 50

2. IF you can prove that claim I will oblige. but having played the games. there is no such feat that substantiates that claim

3. I know what hyperbole is fella. but when so much of his mythos backs up the claim of him being a perfect warrior save his heel. Im inclined to believe it. but this is movie Achilles so ill concede

4.lol ok so the nameless soldier Ezio beat=trained waariors but the nameless soldiers that Achilles beat (that you knew I was gonna bring up) are fodder? that's not fair dude

5. and like i said i played the games too. and i don't remember Ezio fighting anybody of notable skill. even when he fought Cesare'. Cesare' had no showings of combat skill but he had to be the "boss" because of the story. like i said if you can actually bring up a fight where Ezio defeated an opponent with skill then ill adjust my opinion. but no such fight exists

6.yeah bro we can do that. just pm me tmrw and we'll do it. its getting pretty late

#140 Posted by slacker the hacker (7844 posts) - - Show Bio

@slacker_the_hacker: Anime peak humans are the equivalent of the Flash in other media lol. Can't really be bothered debating but yeah.

Well I wouldn't exactly be calling Claire a match for the Flash.

Flash would slaughter him.

But yeah this is Vino (Who is also called Claire.......he ended up changing his name to Felix as well. He has a lot of names)

He's from Baccano! Which is guilty of having one of the best dubs of all time and its one of my fav light novels. But I'll simply just show off a couple clips.

(Note in the vid above he doesn't actually look like that)

Vid below (He's the guy covered in blood)

Sure you don't wanna debate?

#141 Edited by i_like_swords (15765 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc said:

@i_like_swords said:

@sog7dc: It won't be from 50 yards, likely 25. Either way it's piercing.

If I dug around I'm sure I could find a sufficient strength feat. Honestly it isn't that great a feat in terms of striking power. Ezio could do it easily.

Achilles wasn't just the best in his time. its been quoted he was "the perfect warrior" aside from his heel of course. there was no flaw in his technique no weakness to exploit. no doubt tech plays a big role but if u give Achilles the same stuff as Ezio then my opinion on that is obvious. I think tech and knowledge of the terrain is Ezios only advantage because I don't think anyone is on Achilles level skill wise. especially with a sword.

"The perfect warrior" is an example of hyperbole. It's when you say something that is exaggerated to add emphasis. "He moved as fast as lightning." For example. He wasn't literally perfect otherwise Hector wouldn't of tagged him or would of been able to block his swings. Everyone has flaws and in terms of weaknesses Achilles actually has more of a weakness in terms of armor.

I saw the trailer already but he was fighting no named henchmen with nowhere near the training he had. Achilles was fighting the best a mighty nation had to offer and he displayed the sme dominance. Achilles beating hector>>>>>Ezio beating nameless guys.

Yeah, the fact is the number of "no named henchmen" (aka trained soldiers). He was dodging all of their strikes, manuvering their strikes into eachothers, breaking necks, dispatching multiple enemies easily with his hidden blades.. it was very impressive and if I dig hard enough I will find someone with a good amount of skill that Ezio has beaten. Honestly, everyone in Troy was fodder except maybe Hector, so as soon as I find a good fight Ezio has won your argument is nullified.

CAV = Challenge a Viner. We both pick a character/team, debate, then let other viners vote on who wins. You up for it? We can agree on a setting and stuff. It'll be on even terms and you can show how skilled Achilles is in more detail :p

1. OP says 50

2. IF you can prove that claim I will oblige. but having played the games. there is no such feat that substantiates that claim

3. I know what hyperbole is fella. but when so much of his mythos backs up the claim of him being a perfect warrior save his heel. Im inclined to believe it. but this is movie Achilles so ill concede

4.lol ok so the nameless soldier Ezio beat=trained waariors but the nameless soldiers that Achilles beat (that you knew I was gonna bring up) are fodder? that's not fair dude

5. and like i said i played the games too. and i don't remember Ezio fighting anybody of notable skill. even when he fought Cesare'. Cesare' had no showings of combat skill but he had to be the "boss" because of the story. like i said if you can actually bring up a fight where Ezio defeated an opponent with skill then ill adjust my opinion. but no such fight exists

6.yeah bro we can do that. just pm me tmrw and we'll do it. its getting pretty late

On the fodder thing. I didn't mean the soldiers in troy weren't skilled I just mean Hector was the only note worthy opponent Achilles faced.

When is tomorrow for you because it's early morning for me? If you want we can quickly agree on some settings now and I can make the thread tonight, then you can debate with me tomorrow?

#142 Posted by i_like_swords (15765 posts) - - Show Bio
#143 Posted by Racob7 (5890 posts) - - Show Bio

#144 Edited by ThexX (1573 posts) - - Show Bio

@i_like_swords: First if you have any knowledge on how special forces operators work in real life you would know that the SAS, Delta Force, Seals use civilian clothing to hide them selves in plain sight. Bucky has special forces training. Also you said your self that Ezio runs away. That there gives time for Bucky to put more distance in between him Ezio giving Bucky the opportunity to knockout somebody hide the body and put on the cloths. (The training feats are posted below.) He was trained by the US Army, Captain America, SAS, & then when the Russian got a hold of him he was trained by the Red Room (Which is the same training that Black Widow received also to point out Bucky trained Black Widow)

I do realize that but what you are saying. But you don't realize that Bucky is trained to think on his feet. Meaning he has been behind enemy lines many times and has adept. For example he followed Wolverine for 3 days and for 1 month without anybody knowing and this is while Wolverine was living in Japan.

Also you post that the Borgia have no presence in Rome meaning there are many buildings he could occupy and set up shop. And it doesn't even has to be a building it could be anything.

Believed dead near the end of World War II only to have been found and brainwashed by the Soviets for the next 50 years, Captain America's former sidekick now continues to defend his country from the shadows against those who would threaten it as the Winter Soldier.

Bucky was fully trained to become Captain America's sidekick at the tender age of 16.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Background/CaptainAmerica50MrShepherd-Meganpg06.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Background/CaptainAmerica50MrShepherd-Meganpg07.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Background/CaptainAmerica50MrShepherd-Meganpg08.jpg

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/6/60545/1166774-the_marvels_proj_07016.jpg

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/6/60545/1942941-captain_america_620_016.jpg

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/6/60545/1946129-captain_america_620_021.jpg

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/6/60545/1946130-captain_america_620_022.jpg

After Steve and Bucky were separated from a life threatening explosion; Steve was frozen and then later revived to become an Avenger. Bucky on the other hand was not so fortunate. Believed to carry the super soldier formula in his body, the Soviet Union obtained Bucky's frozen body. Although disappointed with Bucky not having the SSS, they discovered other uses for him. He was trained in all modern day martial arts and had a number of students including the Black Widow.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Background/CaptainAmericaV5011page05-1.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Background/CaptainAmericaV5011page06.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Background/CaptainAmericaV5011page07.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Background/CaptainAmericaV5011page08.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Background/CaptainAmericaV5011page09.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Background/CaptainAmericaV5011page10.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Background/CaptainAmericaV5011page11.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Background/CaptainAmericaV5011page12.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Background/CaptainAmericaV5011page13.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Background/CaptainAmericaV5011page14.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Background/CaptainAmericaV5011page15.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Background/CaptainAmericaV5011page16.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Background/CaptainAmericaV5011page17.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Background/CaptainAmericaV5011page18.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Background/CaptainAmericaV5011page19.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Background/CaptainAmericaV5011page20.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Background/CaptainAmerica50MrShepherd-Meganpg19.jpg

STEALTH

Follows Wolverine for 3 days without Wolverine knowing.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Stealth/tn0_Wolverine40-017.jpg

Continues to follow Wolverine for a month without Wolverine knowing.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Stealth/tn0_Wolverine40-021.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/JohnDV201/Bucky%20Barnes/Bucky%20Barnes%20Stealth/tn0_Wolverine40-022.jpg

Also he has other stealth feats, He has infiltrated AIM, Hydra, and SHIELD bases, Has been able to sneak up on Daredevil. Has also infiltrated a Latveria embassy with Doctor Doom inside. Doom did detect them but that wasn't until he and Black Widow where very close (Happens during Winter Soldier series.) Has been able to stay hidden while Union Jack, Sharon Carter, & a number of Shield agents (Does this during Captain America: Red Menace) where searching the area. Also has used civilian clothing a number of times to infiltrate enemy bases. He mostly does this in the Winter Soldier Series.

Online
#145 Posted by ThexX (1573 posts) - - Show Bio
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#146 Posted by Guardiandevil83 (5779 posts) - - Show Bio

@i_like_swords: Maybe I will substitute Taskmaster for Tarzan the novel version.

#147 Posted by Dratini1331 (7028 posts) - - Show Bio

@hart7668: lol I suppose so. Like swords said, I guess anime peak > peak in other medias. Sort of a plot device a this point lol.

#148 Posted by hart7668 (2294 posts) - - Show Bio

@dratini1331: Well, I think manga's are generally written (particularly shonen) to have martial artists "above" such things as guns and bombs and the like. As in they transcended and surpassed such weapons. Now clearly, Hongo isn't supersonic or anything - far from it. But his (and the Masters') ability to dodge bullets is the same as Batman's ability to: it's more of "I know where you're going to shoot it and I'll be gone by the time you pull the trigger" except on a bigger scale.

Bottom line, HSDK is crazy strong (for street levelers). But the OP is sort of giving the implication that there aren't any legitimate peak human characters that can take Ezio in his element. Although I feel like Snake Eyes could give him a run for his money.

#149 Posted by Rick_Grayson (816 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman, Nightwing, Green Arrow, Jason Todd, Punisher, Iron Fist, Cassandra Cain, Deadpool without healing, Daredevil, Black Panther, Lady Shiva, depowered Black Canary, Deadshot, Ra's Al Ghul. There's so many more than this but this will have to do.

#150 Posted by NeonGameWave (7952 posts) - - Show Bio