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#1 Posted by comicdude23 (11399 posts) - - Show Bio

Who can beat it? 


 

#2 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17004 posts) - - Show Bio

TOAA
Living Tribunal
Phoenix Force
Anyone with HOTU
Multi-Eterinty 
Infinity Being (in full power)
Jim Jaspers (616)
Maybe:
Abraxas, Chaos King, Chaos War Hercules, other Multi-Abstracts, 
 
There are others, like Cap. Britain with all his weapons or Merlyn with all his weapons.

#3 Edited by comicdude23 (11399 posts) - - Show Bio
@czarny_samael said:

"TOAA Living Tribunal Phoenix Force Anyone with HOTU Multi-Eterinty  Infinity Being (in full power) Jim Jaspers (616)Maybe: Abraxas, Chaos King, Chaos War Hercules, other Multi-Abstracts,   There are others, like Cap. Britain with all his weapons or Merlyn with all his weapons. "


Phoenix would lose.
#4 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17004 posts) - - Show Bio
@comicdude23 said:
" @czarny_samael said:

"TOAA Living Tribunal Phoenix Force Anyone with HOTU Multi-Eterinty  Infinity Being (in full power) Jim Jaspers (616)Maybe: Abraxas, Chaos King, Chaos War Hercules, other Multi-Abstracts,   There are others, like Cap. Britain with all his weapons or Merlyn with all his weapons. "

Phoenix would lose. "
You think about Phoenix as a universal being at best. The thing is that each Phoenix avatar in each universe can reach WPOTC level. The real Phoenix Force is the sum of power of all avatars from whole Multiverse. Since each other avatar created each other universe, Phoenix Force is the one responsible for creating Multiverse.
It is like PF > Multi-Eternity and WPOTC > Eternity
#5 Posted by Neptune God of Water (158 posts) - - Show Bio

Mr. Mxy
#6 Posted by comicdude23 (11399 posts) - - Show Bio
@czarny_samael said:
" @comicdude23 said:
" @czarny_samael said:

"TOAA Living Tribunal Phoenix Force Anyone with HOTU Multi-Eterinty  Infinity Being (in full power) Jim Jaspers (616)Maybe: Abraxas, Chaos King, Chaos War Hercules, other Multi-Abstracts,   There are others, like Cap. Britain with all his weapons or Merlyn with all his weapons. "

Phoenix would lose. "
You think about Phoenix as a universal being at best. The thing is that each Phoenix avatar in each universe can reach WPOTC level. The real Phoenix Force is the sum of power of all avatars from whole Multiverse. Since each other avatar created each other universe, Phoenix Force is the one responsible for creating Multiverse. It is like PF > Multi-Eternity and WPOTC > Eternity "


Even WPOTC lose. 
She has no feats to compare to with AM. 
COIE AM desotryed hundereds of Universes, and pretty miuch destroyed the DC Multiverse. 
All the avatars and the the Force lose. 
As AM was resposnible fo destroying the Multiverse.
#7 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17004 posts) - - Show Bio
@Neptune God of Water said:
" Mr. Mxy "
He will lose.
 
@comicdude23 said:
" @czarny_samael said:
" You think about Phoenix as a universal being at best. The thing is that each Phoenix avatar in each universe can reach WPOTC level. The real Phoenix Force is the sum of power of all avatars from whole Multiverse. Since each other avatar created each other universe, Phoenix Force is the one responsible for creating Multiverse. It is like PF > Multi-Eternity and WPOTC > Eternity "
Even WPOTC lose. She has no feats to compare to with AM. COIE AM desotryed hundereds of Universes, and pretty miuch destroyed the DC Multiverse. All the avatars and the the Force lose. As AM was resposnible fo destroying the Multiverse. "

I know that WPOTC will lose. The point is that Phoenix Force has power of billions upon billions WPOTC.
#8 Posted by comicdude23 (11399 posts) - - Show Bio
@czarny_samael said:
" @Neptune God of Water said:
" Mr. Mxy "
He will lose.
 
@comicdude23 said:
" @czarny_samael said:
" You think about Phoenix as a universal being at best. The thing is that each Phoenix avatar in each universe can reach WPOTC level. The real Phoenix Force is the sum of power of all avatars from whole Multiverse. Since each other avatar created each other universe, Phoenix Force is the one responsible for creating Multiverse. It is like PF > Multi-Eternity and WPOTC > Eternity "
Even WPOTC lose. She has no feats to compare to with AM. COIE AM desotryed hundereds of Universes, and pretty miuch destroyed the DC Multiverse. All the avatars and the the Force lose. As AM was resposnible fo destroying the Multiverse. "
I know that WPOTC will lose. The point is that Phoenix Force has power of billions upon billions WPOTC. "

AM > Billions of WPOTC. 
 
AM has the feats that makes Phoenix Force look like a joke.
#9 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17004 posts) - - Show Bio
@comicdude23 said:
" AM > Billions of WPOTC.  AM has the feats that makes Phoenix Force look like a joke. "
No, because each WPOTCis universal being. AM destroyed thousands of universes, while Marvel Multiverse is much bigger:


Now, Phoenix Force is creator of all of them.
#10 Posted by Neptune God of Water (158 posts) - - Show Bio
@czarny_samael:
Mr. Mxy could beat MJJ, so I don't know why you would say he wins over Mxy. Mxy has shown more range in reality warping powers than Jim Jaspers...
#11 Posted by comicdude23 (11399 posts) - - Show Bio
   @czarny_samael said:
" @comicdude23 said:
" AM > Billions of WPOTC.  AM has the feats that makes Phoenix Force look like a joke. "
No, because each WPOTCis universal being. AM destroyed thousands of universes, while Marvel Multiverse is much bigger:

 
Now, Phoenix Force is creator of all of them. "


AM is a Multiversal level being.

 
The DC Multiverse before the Crisis was much bigger than it is now, that's why their was the Crisis, because their were to many Universes. 
 
He destroyed loads of them. 
 

 


Phoenix Force created the Multiverse because TOAA made her, without TOAA, their is no Phoenix. 
 
And destroying the entire DC Multiverse is a good feat.

#12 Posted by TheSpiritStalker (2013 posts) - - Show Bio

Anyone with a pen and some paper

#13 Posted by Nefarious (18841 posts) - - Show Bio

The Protege.

#14 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17004 posts) - - Show Bio
@comicdude23 :
 
Hundreds are not billions.
#15 Posted by comicdude23 (11399 posts) - - Show Bio
@czarny_samael said:
" @comicdude23 :  Hundreds are not billions. "

Destoying the entire Pre Crisis Muliverse is.
#16 Posted by Dracade102 (8167 posts) - - Show Bio
@Neptune God of Water said:
" Mr. Mxy "
Only WF's Mxyzptlk has a chance here
#17 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17004 posts) - - Show Bio
@comicdude23 said:
" @czarny_samael said:
" @comicdude23 :  Hundreds are not billions. "
Destoying the entire Pre Crisis Muliverse is. "
But You don't know how big it was. Also it wasn't entire Multiverse, it was almost entire Multiverse, while Phoenix Force is creator and can be (also will be) destroyer of whole Multiverse. This is small difference, but big enough.
#18 Posted by comicdude23 (11399 posts) - - Show Bio
@czarny_samael said:
" @comicdude23 said:
" @czarny_samael said:
" @comicdude23 :  Hundreds are not billions. "
Destoying the entire Pre Crisis Muliverse is. "
But You don't know how big it was. Also it wasn't entire Multiverse, it was almost entire Multiverse, while Phoenix Force is creator and can be (also will be) destroyer of whole Multiverse. This is small difference, but big enough. "

....The Crisis happenned because their were to many Universes, Phoenix Force has no On Pannel feats to be put at AM level, based off On Pannel feats, AM wins. And Phoenix Force needed TOAA to create her.
#19 Posted by comicdude23 (11399 posts) - - Show Bio
@czarny_samael:
Also, "Quality Over Quantity", AM destroyed most of the Pre Crisis Multiverse, with people like SA Superman.
#20 Posted by Outside_85 (8180 posts) - - Show Bio

The Spectre couldnt stop the AM during the Crisis, anyone below or equal his power level has no real chance of succeeding.

#21 Posted by comicdude23 (11399 posts) - - Show Bio
@Outside_85 said:
"

The Spectre couldnt stop the AM during the Crisis, anyone below or equal his power level has no real chance of succeeding.

"

Alot of people above Spectre would lose. And that was Full Powe PC Spectre.
#22 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17004 posts) - - Show Bio
@comicdude23 :
 
We've seen on panel what WPOTC can and we know that Phoenix is the sum of billions of such a people. 
Full Phoenix Force > COIE AM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WPOTC
#23 Posted by Killer_of_trolls (1852 posts) - - Show Bio

Living Tribunal ftw (Nuff said)
chaos king Amatsu Mikabushi
Thanos with HOTU

#24 Posted by Cosmic_Falcon (2039 posts) - - Show Bio
@czarny_samael said:
" @comicdude23 said:
" @czarny_samael said:
" @comicdude23 :  Hundreds are not billions. "
Destoying the entire Pre Crisis Muliverse is. "
But You don't know how big it was. Also it wasn't entire Multiverse, it was almost entire Multiverse, while Phoenix Force is creator and can be (also will be) destroyer of whole Multiverse. This is small difference, but big enough. "
Pre Crisis DC Universe was composed of an infinity number of universes.  Anti Monitor reduces infinity to 5, so off of your list there are maybe 3 that can win here. 
#25 Posted by goldenshot80 (7349 posts) - - Show Bio
Some people from my List could beat Anti Monitor
#26 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17004 posts) - - Show Bio
@Cosmic_Falcon said:
" @czarny_samael said:
" @comicdude23 said:
" @czarny_samael said:
" @comicdude23 :  Hundreds are not billions. "
Destoying the entire Pre Crisis Muliverse is. "
But You don't know how big it was. Also it wasn't entire Multiverse, it was almost entire Multiverse, while Phoenix Force is creator and can be (also will be) destroyer of whole Multiverse. This is small difference, but big enough. "
Pre Crisis DC Universe was composed of an infinity number of universes.  Anti Monitor reduces infinity to 5, so off of your list there are maybe 3 that can win here.  "
I know what he has done and I know also that he is bassically Mikaboshi, beside the fact that Mikaboshi had to be BFR'd.
#27 Posted by Killer_of_trolls (1852 posts) - - Show Bio
@czarny_samael:  oh shit, your right!
#28 Posted by King Saturn (223834 posts) - - Show Bio
Bugs Bunny and Popeye The Sailor ( with Spinach )
#29 Posted by _Courage_ (1183 posts) - - Show Bio
@czarny_samael said:
" TOAA Living Tribunal Phoenix Force Anyone with HOTU Multi-Eterinty  Infinity Being (in full power) Jim Jaspers (616)Maybe: Abraxas, Chaos King, Chaos War Hercules, other Multi-Abstracts,   There are others, like Cap. Britain with all his weapons or Merlyn with all his weapons. "
Abraxas would lose.
#30 Posted by RiseofApocalypse (3992 posts) - - Show Bio

Pre-crisis Supergirl. 

#31 Posted by Prince CortSether (2301 posts) - - Show Bio

616 Eternity or higher

#32 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17004 posts) - - Show Bio
@_Courage_ said:
" @czarny_samael said:
" TOAA Living Tribunal Phoenix Force Anyone with HOTU Multi-Eterinty  Infinity Being (in full power) Jim Jaspers (616)Maybe: Abraxas, Chaos King, Chaos War Hercules, other Multi-Abstracts,   There are others, like Cap. Britain with all his weapons or Merlyn with all his weapons. "
Abraxas would lose. "
That is why I've said maybe. Abraxas is actually bassically what Anti-Monitor, Mikaboshi, Oblivion or The Hunger. All of them are destructive forces of Multiverse. All of them are a threat to Multiverse. But:
COIE AM and Mikabohi almost reached their goal.
Oblivion actually is their goal, but we knwo that he is leeser being than Multi-Eternity, so it is debatable.
Abraxas was a threat, but he stopped at potential and doesn't have a feats that entiely proves that point.
The Hunger maybe is like them, but he has a problem with coming into next universes. That is why I've didn't bring him here.
#33 Posted by comicdude23 (11399 posts) - - Show Bio
@czarny_samael said:
" @comicdude23 :  We've seen on panel what WPOTC can and we know that Phoenix is the sum of billions of such a people.  Full Phoenix Force > COIE AM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WPOTC "

WPOTC only held a Universe in her hand. Full PF created the Multiverse, AM destroyed most of it. 
 
Destroying Multiverse > Creating it. 
 
Destroying > Creating.
#34 Posted by comicdude23 (11399 posts) - - Show Bio
@RiseofApocalypse said:
"Pre-crisis Supergirl.  "

........
#35 Edited by Devias (297 posts) - - Show Bio

 Pre-Retcon Beyonder.
 
Seriously, is there anyone, besides The One Above All and The Presence that can beat the Beyonder? I'm on a quest, trying to seek the answer.

#36 Edited by TheUltimateSurvivor (840 posts) - - Show Bio
Destroying is > Creating ? LOL, build a house and then destroy it. How much did it take to build and how much to destroy ? You fail as always, jasraj.
#37 Posted by tensor (3928 posts) - - Show Bio
@Devias: mxy
#38 Edited by Killer_of_trolls (1852 posts) - - Show Bio
@comicdude23 said:

" @czarny_samael said:

" @comicdude23 :  We've seen on panel what WPOTC can and we know that Phoenix is the sum of billions of such a people.  Full Phoenix Force > COIE AM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WPOTC "

WPOTC only held a Universe in her hand. Full PF created the Multiverse, AM destroyed most of it.  Destroying Multiverse > Creating it.  Destroying > Creating. "
where are you getting this from, it didn't creat the multiverse, just the living beings in it. that's why it's the entity representing life just like eternity represents time.
 
@Devias said:

"  Pre-Retcon Beyonder.  Seriously, is there anyone, besides The One Above All and The Presence that can beat the Beyonder? I'm on a quest, trying to seek the answer. "


maybe, even though it's not canon, but Doom in the "what if...?" story when he kept the beyonders powers he went and stole all the Infinity Gems, so I guess that makes him above beyonder according to his actions, but that just an assumption of mine.
#39 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17004 posts) - - Show Bio
@rapest_of_super_heros said:
" @comicdude23 said:

" @czarny_samael said:

" @comicdude23 :  We've seen on panel what WPOTC can and we know that Phoenix is the sum of billions of such a people.  Full Phoenix Force > COIE AM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WPOTC "

WPOTC only held a Universe in her hand. Full PF created the Multiverse, AM destroyed most of it.  Destroying Multiverse > Creating it.  Destroying > Creating. "
where are you getting this from, it didn't creat the multiverse, just the living beings in it. that's why it's the entity representing life just like eternity represents time.
No, Phoenix Force created Marvel Universe and allow Galactus to survive. 
 
@comicdude23 said:
" @czarny_samael said:
" @comicdude23 :  We've seen on panel what WPOTC can and we know that Phoenix is the sum of billions of such a people.  Full Phoenix Force > COIE AM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WPOTC "
WPOTC only held a Universe in her hand. Full PF created the Multiverse, AM destroyed most of it.  Destroying Multiverse > Creating it.  Destroying > Creating. "

Creating > destroying
It takes less energy to destroy something by molecular manipulation, than to re-create it.
#40 Posted by Prince CortSether (2301 posts) - - Show Bio
@czarny_samael said:
" @rapest_of_super_heros said:
" @comicdude23 said:

" @czarny_samael said:

" @comicdude23 :  We've seen on panel what WPOTC can and we know that Phoenix is the sum of billions of such a people.  Full Phoenix Force > COIE AM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WPOTC "

WPOTC only held a Universe in her hand. Full PF created the Multiverse, AM destroyed most of it.  Destroying Multiverse > Creating it.  Destroying > Creating. "
where are you getting this from, it didn't creat the multiverse, just the living beings in it. that's why it's the entity representing life just like eternity represents time.
No, Phoenix Force created Marvel Universe and allow Galactus to survive. 
 
Phoenix did no such thing. Show that on panel instead of relying on a misinformed bio. It was the Infinity Being that allowed Galactus to live. Phoenix was born from the Big Bang just like all of the other abstracts.
 

#41 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17004 posts) - - Show Bio
@Prince CortSether said:
" @czarny_samael said:
" @rapest_of_super_heros said:
" @comicdude23 said:

" @czarny_samael said:

" @comicdude23 :  We've seen on panel what WPOTC can and we know that Phoenix is the sum of billions of such a people.  Full Phoenix Force > COIE AM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WPOTC "

WPOTC only held a Universe in her hand. Full PF created the Multiverse, AM destroyed most of it.  Destroying Multiverse > Creating it.  Destroying > Creating. "
where are you getting this from, it didn't creat the multiverse, just the living beings in it. that's why it's the entity representing life just like eternity represents time.
No, Phoenix Force created Marvel Universe and allow Galactus to survive. 
 
Phoenix did no such thing. Show that on panel instead of relying on a misinformed bio. It was the Infinity Being that allowed Galactus to live. Phoenix was born from the Big Bang just like all of the other abstracts.
 

"
What does this scan prove?
#42 Posted by comicdude23 (11399 posts) - - Show Bio
@czarny_samael:
No. 
Destroying > Creating. 
Destroying shows more ability to fight and a better challenge, AM was physically destroying people and Universes. 
Death > Life.
#43 Posted by comicdude23 (11399 posts) - - Show Bio
@czarny_samael:
PF didn't create the Multiverse.
#44 Posted by Supreme Cosmic (764 posts) - - Show Bio
@comicdude23 said:
" @czarny_samael: No. Destroying > Creating. Destroying shows more ability to fight and a better challenge, AM was physically destroying people and Universes. Death > Life. "
Logically no, but i agree with the fact that in order to destroy you'll have to be strong enough to face the opposition
#45 Posted by Prince CortSether (2301 posts) - - Show Bio
@czarny_samael: That Phoenix had nothing to do with saving Galan. The Infinity Being allowed Galan to merge with it. 
 
But you seem to think otherwise so please show an on-panel instance of the Phoenix Force saving Galan and not some crummy unsupported bio.
#46 Posted by RiseofApocalypse (3992 posts) - - Show Bio
@comicdude23 said:
" @Outside_85 said:
"

The Spectre couldnt stop the AM during the Crisis, anyone below or equal his power level has no real chance of succeeding.

"
Alot of people above Spectre would lose. And that was Full Powe PC Spectre. "
Spectre was being amplified by some of DC's most powerful magic users. He wasn't 'fully powered'; he was in excess of his 100%. Plus, it was implied that the Spectre spared the Anti-Monitor's life due to the fact that if he had killed the AM, then every single hero Anti-Monitor had absorbed would've died as well. 
 
@comicdude23
said:
" @RiseofApocalypse said:
"Pre-crisis Supergirl.  "
........ "
Supergirl nearly killed the Anti-Monitor even though her powers were being drained by his crib.  

"You have destroyed most of my body! I feel my energies waning!" 


"No! My machines! You have destroyed them!" 


"My body is destroyed! I cannot remain here! I need time to heal! It is not yet over!"

The reason Anti-Monitor became a multi-versal powerhouse near the end of Crisis on Infinite Earths was because of him absorbing the anti-matter universe and the heroes who were opposing him at that point.  
 
So to summarize; base Anti-Monitor (the AM I assume you want us to debate) = not too powerful, amped Anti-Monitor = super powerful.
#47 Posted by _Courage_ (1183 posts) - - Show Bio
@czarny_samael said:
" @_Courage_ said:
" @czarny_samael said:
" TOAA Living Tribunal Phoenix Force Anyone with HOTU Multi-Eterinty  Infinity Being (in full power) Jim Jaspers (616)Maybe: Abraxas, Chaos King, Chaos War Hercules, other Multi-Abstracts,   There are others, like Cap. Britain with all his weapons or Merlyn with all his weapons. "
Abraxas would lose. "
That is why I've said maybe. Abraxas is actually bassically what Anti-Monitor, Mikaboshi, Oblivion or The Hunger. All of them are destructive forces of Multiverse. All of them are a threat to Multiverse. But: COIE AM and Mikabohi almost reached their goal. Oblivion actually is their goal, but we knwo that he is leeser being than Multi-Eternity, so it is debatable. Abraxas was a threat, but he stopped at potential and doesn't have a feats that entiely proves that point. The Hunger maybe is like them, but he has a problem with coming into next universes. That is why I've didn't bring him here. "
I agree. It's just Abraxas didn't come near as close as Anti-Monitor or Mikaboshi.
#48 Posted by comicdude23 (11399 posts) - - Show Bio
@RiseofApocalypse:
Ok, but I'm using the amped up Anti Monitor.
#49 Posted by OmegaDynasty (9184 posts) - - Show Bio

What about Lucifer Morningstar, Archangel Michael, or the GEB?

#50 Posted by TheGoldenOne (38849 posts) - - Show Bio
@comicdude23 said:
" @czarny_samael: No. Destroying > Creating. Destroying shows more ability to fight and a better challenge, AM was physically destroying people and Universes. Death > Life. "
I disagree