White Lantern Hal Jordan vs Classic Ion (Kyle) vs White Phoenix

" @lord_oraculous016 said:

"@Reactor: the Phoenix is beyond TIME and SPACE, as she is beyond DEATH and ALL FORMS OF REALITY.. plus the PHOENIX FORCE itself is MULTIVERSAL, for how can a so called "UNIVERSAL" entity project a tower throughout the MULTIVERSE.. such logic is absurd.. the reason why there are different Phoenix Avatars on each reality is because, the Phoenix as a force can not act on its own for it needs an avatar to act.. the White Phoenix of the Crown is undoubtedly MULTIVERSAL, for there only exist one WPOTC in the entire Multiverse.. a single reality is next to nothing to the concerns of the Phoenix, for even it all the MUltiverse is destroyed, all of its energies will just return to the White Hot Room, and there the Phoenix will spark a new creation.. Ion has great feats, i have to agree, but they still pales in comparison to what the Phoenix has displayed so far.. "

I'm not saying your wrong. But I just don't know a lot about Marvel in general when it comes to like Infinity Thanos and White Crown Phoenix. And everytime I try to research them so I don't sound like a jackass I get a lot of different answers on power. I know some writers kinda screw characters up. ie: Hulk lifting a mountain range then a few comics later losing a fight to a python in the swamp. Well I know the Phoenix is pretty much the Original breathe or "Fire" that started in all. The PF is creation. Which I THINK, i dont know, but i think that DC is trying to Use the White Lantern as the one All powerful entity that has hosts except Only the weilder of the entity will be 2nd to God. The rest will be white lanterns and be what the green lanterns were meant to be, Galactic police. Just on a higher scale. And I don't want to seem like a sexist or anything so I sincerly apologize if I offend anyone but why is the Phoenix Female? Jean Gray (Grey?), Rachel Summers? Like I said I don't know much about the Actual character except the pic of her holding the universe and people always calling her threads spite cause the force itself is soo powerful. I guess my question is, HOW did something called the "Goblin Force" defeat her?>(whats the GF if you can answer that too) and If the Phoenix represents creation and the White Lantern entity is All Life then they should technically BE the same thing right? "

I’ll try to sum up what I know about the Phoenix for you my friend.. the Phoenix Force is not in a corporeal sense an abstract entity (like Eternity and Death) or a cosmic being (Galactus and the Celestial), rather it is a FORCE.. pure LIFE FORCE, pure CREATION.. in order for the force to manifest into the physical plane in must tap into the limitless source of energy the force itself originally intended for the unborn.. and thus, its manifestation to the physical plane (in a form of a Firebird it mostly depicts) denies these countless souls existence.. in this form, the Phoenix is composed of raw cosmic energy and needs an avatar in which it could act.. it is the source of life in the cosmos, the embodiment of the very passion of creation.. it’s are the flames that will ultimately destroy “all that is”, and from those ashes, it will again spark a new creation..

the Goblin Force on the other hand is a ravenous cosmic entity which is said to be the shadow of the Phoenix Force.. the Goblin Force sustains itself from the energies of cosmic beings in devours and thus adding their power to it.. so there is the answer for the much asked question.. did the GF “devour” the PF? The answer is yes (it devoured its cosmic shell or possibly an avatar) and no (it did not “devour” the force itself, for grave effects should put into motion)..

there are actually many Phoenix Avatars but only one exist on each alternate universe.. these avatars wield the power of the Phoenix and performs their jobs as the Guardians of Creation of each universe.. but much like the White Lanterns as you said, these is but one main avatar, or should I say not a host but a individual who is ONE WITH THE SAME BEING as the Phoenix Force.. the White Phoenix of the Crown.. I really don’t know why Marvel chose Jean Grey to be the wielder of the force.. but the answer probably due to Jean’s love for Life, as Death itself once stated that since the dawn of creation, it never knew someone who is so dedicated to life as she is..  Rachel Summers is the daughter of Jean Grey.. she was sought by the Phoenix since she holds the same genetic pattern as her mother..

in Marvel, Eternity is the being who represents all life in the Universe while the Phoenix is the source of life in the entire creation, as well as their destruction and ultimate resurrection.. if DC portraits the White Lantern entity as such.. yes they could probably/arguably be the same, the only thing is that, the Phoenix is more than just life..

Phoenix wins here

@lord_oraculous016: That's awesome, unfortunetly it doesn't help or her chances in this fight in the least bit.
 
 
 
 
@Hellos: 
 

Lol Goblin Force, nothing beats some obscure alternate reality menace that as far as I know hasn't shown up since that punked out a Phoenix Avatar at best, certainly not the force itself. If it devoured the entire force then it would have been a bit more than a universal threat good chap. Doubtful the entity will be doing much devouring or killing Jean, that statement seems a bit too fanboyish imo. "

 Um, where exactly did it say it was an avatar? It flat out stated it devoured the entire Force 
 
Why wouldn't he be able to kill Jean? How about backing some of this up with proof  
Also, I am still waiting for someone to prove that WCP is a multiversal entity, so the Goblin Force wouldn't have to be a multiversal entity to devour the PF
 
 

 

 
 
@Goenitz said:

"Phoenix wins here "

It's WPOTC here

"It's WPOTC here "

Neon_Nemesis: :) you´re hardy man

"Neon_Nemesis: :) you´re hardy man "

I respect Hal and Kyle powers, but WPOTC can´t be underestimate

" @Neon_Nemesis: if you mean by a daft manner yes.. but one with unparalleled intelligence would clearly see through what really is and is not.. your defense is so much flawed.. you refuse to succumb to valid and factual claims and insist your twisted and biased ideas..    remember, one cannot argue with deaf years and closed mind.. "

" @lord_oraculous016:
Oh and one more thing, Do you believeOriginal version Ion Kyle (Hand of God series) as the entity and force of Willpower or Zero Hour Parallax Hal (Zero Hour series) as entity and force of fear could defeat Dark Phoenix? (One on One not  2 v. 1) AND are Dark and White Crown Phoenix same power levels? "

" @Neon_Nemesis: you are acting naive.. from such claims, one can logically understand her power to destroy the Multiverse.. you are insisting an idea which is already been answered.. "

"
 Um, where exactly did it say it was an avatar? It flat out stated it devoured the entire Force 
 
Why wouldn't he be able to kill Jean? How about backing some of this up with proof  
Also, I am still waiting for someone to prove that WCP is a multiversal entity, so the Goblin Force wouldn't have to be a multiversal entity to devour the PF"

"  
@Neon_Nemesis said:

"
 Um, where exactly did it say it was an avatar? It flat out stated it devoured the entire Force 
 
Why wouldn't he be able to kill Jean? How about backing some of this up with proof  
Also, I am still waiting for someone to prove that WCP is a multiversal entity, so the Goblin Force wouldn't have to be a multiversal entity to devour the PF"

 
And you where wrong. That may be what was written in that comic, but if it had devoured the entire force the GF would have been MUCH more of a threat that would have stomped out that universe with ease.   
Again people are using the Goblin Force an obscure alternate universe polar opposite of the PF that no one has seen outside that universe as a means to devalue a character who does hold universes in the palm of her hands. :P
   
Because "The Entity" is comes off as a phoenix avatar clone right off the bat with less feats. Though it did bring back the dead, not sure other than self ressurection Avatars have..  
Ion when he did play the omnipresent game in one universe did come off as fairly powerful, but does lack the personal feats to say he was something of a multiversal guy, mainly because he dealt with threats in DC's main backyard universe. 
 
They don't have the feats to devour or kill Jean, when the process would require them killing pretty much everyone to do so, which is against what they would normally do.  
White Crown demolished any feats standard avatars pulled off by just holding a mainstream universe in her hand making it her play thing, how often do non multiversal nigh omnipotents pull feats like that off? (In before picture of Franklin Richards holding a pokcet universe :P)  "

"Once again, proof please, I love how people make random statements without any evidence  I don't go around saying Ion is a multiversal entitiy, but he is capable of multiversal feats, feats that are greater then anything WCP has shown   Why do you bring up holding a universe in the palm of her hand like its some godly feat? All she did was repair ONE Universe, this pales in comparison to destroying and recreating several  Bottom line here is, until WCP shows some credible feats, hell, maybe when she can traverse different realities without the M'Krann Crystal, I might give her more credit, until then she gets mutilated  by Kyle /thread "

"@lord_oraculous016: Thank you very much. That was an academic responce rather than fanboy crap. I do understand how Phoenix is multiversal because the force itself sparked creation and will undo and redo. So I get that. I honestly believe the White Light Entity will be something like the Phoenix force. The White and Black entities were stated by Johns to be the origin of "it" He went further into implying that the White Light Entity and Black Lantern entity have done this all before...  Like the phoenix before and after type deal. Soo I think it will end up being the White and Black lantern are actually DC God 2 first creations. White Will be just like the phoenix force, creation, life, and Black will be inevitability, death (Death is obviously a lot like life, just not fully explored). So IT could be a lot like PF and GF... Thanks for all the help. "

"@lord_oraculous016:
Oh and one more thing, Do you believeOriginal version Ion Kyle (Hand of God series) as the entity and force of Willpower or Zero Hour Parallax Hal (Zero Hour series) as entity and force of fear could defeat Dark Phoenix? (One on One not  2 v. 1) AND are Dark and White Crown Phoenix same power levels? "

" @Neon_Nemesis: beacuse you my friend are delibirately denying something 1. which is clearly shown.. my scans of what Necrom did while possessing an insignificant fraction of the Phoenix is much of an evidence itself.. what you are doing, is refusing feats of such scale and ask something which is more direct to what you want, when what is already shown is more than sufficient.. not having the feats of clearly/directly destroying multiple realities is not a valid defense that one being does not possess such power.. remember than most OMNIPOTENT/NIGH-OMNIPOTENT characters does not directly shows such feat even though they can easily perform such on a whim.. some other characters who shares such situation with the 2. WPOTC are the Living Tribunal, Lucifer Morningstar, Michael Dermiurgos, Protege and even Pre-retcon Beyonder who once considered destroying the Multiverse but never really shown it.. the Spectre once fought the Anti-Monitor who had shown such feats, suggesting, the Spectre himself is on par with the Anti-Monitor3. and probably/theoretically capable of performing the same though he has never shown such.. 4. what Necrom did was far better feat of showning the power to destroy the Multiverse than all of the mentioned OMNIPOTENT/NIGH-OMNIPOTENT beings, which he obviously pale in comparison.. and 5.i am in no particular reason a Fanboy of the Phoenix, i do admit that i like the character but i am no way biased in opinion with regards to it, i only state i what i know, no more no less.. if by any chance i encounter an evidence i cannot logically counter in defense for the character, the i will concede, if not, i will continue on with my adamant resolves..6. i defended the character because you refuse to accept what is shown despite clear evidences.. i believe this is the purpose of such forums.. 7.to share what you know, compare it with others, and make a logically correct response and conclusions.. this applies to all characters, if one has a good, valid and factual claim, others must consider them well.. thank you.. ^__^ "

@Goenitz

" I respect Hal and Kyle powers, but WPOTC can´t be underestimate "

@lord_oraculous016

" Ion and Parallax have had clearly greater feats than the Dark Phoenix, so if they act together against a still weaken Dark Phoenix, they would probably able to take home the victory rather easily.. but if the Dark Phoenix reached the point where her powers are in infitie levels, i honestly don't know.. could probably go either way.. at the cost of Universe itself..  "

I am aware that you call yourself, a realitist.. one who demands clear and direct evidences.. pardon if I cannot satisfy your demands, for I only speak of what I know.. since everyone has their own opinions of the matter, then it’s for us to respect those.. this debate can go on forever, not backing down for each one is with adamant will.. but remember, yours and mine is only two of thousands or even millions of unheard opinions.. so let us give others the honour of evaluating and judging all our given statements.. and from that, their own opinions of the matter.. thank you.. ^__^

WPOTC Owns Both Of Them.

Enough said.

I read lots article about Phoenix,

and it is great.

Classic Ion wins until WL Hal gets more feats. I'm sure he will be able to match him by the end of Brightest Day. WPOTC is really a non-factor here imo.

#1: Hal.
#2: Phoenix.

Kyle wins.

Not sure but I think Kyle or Hal take it

@GamorasBigDaddy: oh god, not another one. the phoenixes best showings are in a text bubble. her REAL feats show shes just barely a multiversal threat at absolute best. Ion slaughters her from existence with a simple hand gesture

also the phoenix is indeed HIGHLY overestimated in almost all her threads . the best scans a phoenix lover can show you is a bunch of crap with people saying shes this and that and blah blah blah. her best actual showing is her altering one moment in time while holding the visual of a single universe. not to mention she only did this in the white hot room, which was easily manipulated by jamie braddock. im sure lordoraculous or some other ridiculous fan boy is now going to remind me of how, the PHOENIX is the primal force of creation and blah blah and other crap ive heard a million times

@jimroote99 said:

also the phoenix is indeed HIGHLY overestimated in almost all her threads . the best scans a phoenix lover can show you is a bunch of crap with people saying shes this and that and blah blah blah. her best actual showing is her altering one moment in time while holding the visual of a single universe. not to mention she only did this in the white hot room, which was easily manipulated by jamie braddock. im sure lordoraculous or some other ridiculous fan boy is now going to remind me of how, the PHOENIX is the primal force of creation and blah blah and other crap ive heard a million times

@menaceforever: and what is this crap supposed to be? her destroying a universe? cool. Ion destroys/creates multiple universes and realities. now go away as you will most likely be nothing more than an annoyance

@jimroote99: You obviously dont know what the word debating is and you dont know who I am. If you did you would know that now that you said to go away i wont.

Did you know

• Phoenix had reaction speeds to stop a black hole
• If Phoenix dies every thing else will also
• Phoenix cant die
• Phoenix can manipulate matter on a molecular level
• Phoenix defeated Galactus
• Phoenix can tap into all future life
• Phoenix can drain life force
• Phoenix stomped the x-men

@menaceforever:

1. ..and?

2. in which case Ion will re-create everything back

3. just contradicted yourself. i shouldnt even be taking you seriously right now

4. her feats put that on a mediocre level

5.she beat a starving galactus that didnt want to fight back and she even said herself if he was at full power she would lose

6. no feats have shown this

7. no feats have shown this

8. wow. she beat a bunch of overrated earth bound heroes. what an accomplishment

now go away

@jimroote99 said:

@menaceforever:

1. ..and?

2. in which case Ion will re-create everything back

3. just contradicted yourself. i shouldnt even be taking you seriously right now

4. her feats put that on a mediocre level

5.she beat a starving galactus that didnt want to fight back and she even said herself if he was at full power she would lose

6. no feats have shown this

7. no feats have shown this

8. wow. she beat a bunch of overrated earth bound heroes. what an accomplishment

now go away

You know nothing of Phoenix i can see.

She did 6-7

I dont feel like giving you scans since you will not appreciate them.

@menaceforever: i wont appreciate scans showing characters saying shes this and that when her actual on panel feats prove otherwise. i have seen her REAL feats, and nothing there indicates shes anywhere near these 2 guys. im no expert on this damn character, but i know enough to rate her as she is, and not completely over hype her like you do

There are feats that show everything I stated. I back my sh*t up. I go to respect threads and make sure I can provide scans before I even start debating. So in all honesty if you are going to just complain and b*tch like " WPOTC is over rated" and "WPOTC has no feats" when you have no real knowledge on the Phoenix Force do everyone a favor and move on or shut up.

Dude white lantern entity destroys ion because he created it then he kills white Phoenix of the crown. Guys if the white lantern entity has control of the emotional spectrum he will rape everyone literally

I'm confused if the white lantern entity is life can't it just commit suicide and kill all life cause everything life if you think about it even black lanterns

WPOTHC

ION

Phoenix

Sounds to me like a WL / White Phoenix stale mate since they both harness thepoweroflifecreation

@neon_nemesis how are you not getting if the white Phoenix can hold create or fix a universeshe could confine or destroy it just as Necrom did harnessing the exact same Phoenix Force