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#1 Edited by Strider92 (16240 posts) - - Show Bio

Like characters such as Wolverine and Spider-man, Backlash walks the grey line between street-level and higher so my question is what street level character could beat Backlash in these circumstances:

Backlash (Half-Gen Factor):

Round 1:

  • Morals On
  • No Prep
  • Random Encounter
  • Standard Gear
  • No BFR
  • Win by KO, death or Incap

Round 2:

  • Morals Off
  • No Prep
  • Random Encounter
  • Standard Gear
  • No BFR
  • Win by KO, Death or Incap

Location:

What characters could beat Slayton in either or both rounds?

#2 Posted by gumflabica (2197 posts) - - Show Bio

@strider92: Midnighter is not street level, just putting that out there.

Deathstroke could probably handle this, but without prep, Wolverine would probably be a better choice. Or Bullseye. Bullseye could do this.

#3 Posted by CalebHara (2329 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't consider Midnighter to be street level. But him.

Flash Thompson Venom maybe?

#4 Posted by robertloucksjr (1711 posts) - - Show Bio

Below Spider-Man possibles Iron Fist/Gambit/Archangel/Gorgon/Spider-Woman/Adamantium Sabretooth (immune to psionics)

#5 Posted by Esquire (3833 posts) - - Show Bio

Morals Off Iron Fist, perhaps?

Or classic gear Black Panther has a decent chance, assuming the Vibranium can handle the psi-whips.

#6 Edited by laflux (15069 posts) - - Show Bio

These are could ones by the way- Some are not definite and are for minorities

Morals on

Spider-Man (Peter) (Would have to be serious at the very least and even then), also depends on whether Backlash his unlimited misting or not

Brock, Flash Venom, Anti-venom (For similar reasons)

Gorgon

Mister Negative (Depends on whether he chooses to use his speed)

What-if-Spider-Man

Iron Fist (Morals off/loose he would have to go in hard and fast)

New 52 Deathstroke (highly debatable)

Wolverine (Not necessarily with morals off, but fighting to his best)

Classic Kaine (Fighting well)

Classic BP

Morals off

Nemesis

Midnighter (He would have door Slayton fast, but his Battle Computer would probably tell him of this)

Current BP (due to teleportation)

Deathstroke with Prep

Gorgon (Possibly)

#7 Edited by Sovereign91001 (4182 posts) - - Show Bio

Fantomex

#8 Posted by Stompa (1257 posts) - - Show Bio

I disagree that morals on would make it easier for most people to defeat Slayton because he is already willing to do a lot to win. Which version is it of Backlash how about misting and the power of his psi whips?

#9 Posted by laflux (15069 posts) - - Show Bio

@stompa: He can kill, but he is certainly less likely to do so with Morals

#10 Posted by Pierpat (2669 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux said:

These are could ones by the way- Some are not definite and are for minorities

Morals on

Spider-Man (Peter) (Would have to be serious at the very least and even then), also depends on whether Backlash his unlimited misting or not

Brock, Flash Venom, Anti-venom (For similar reasons)

Gorgon

Mister Negative (Depends on whether he chooses to use his speed)

What-if-Spider-Man

Iron Fist (Morals off/loose he would have to go in hard and fast)

New 52 Deathstroke (highly debatable)

Wolverine (Not necessarily with morals off, but fighting to his best)

Classic Kaine (Fighting well)

Classic BP

Fantomex

Morals off

Nemesis

Midnighter (He would have door Slayton fast, but his Battle Computer would probably tell him of this)

Current BP (due to teleportation)

Deathstroke with Prep

Gorgon (Possibly)

sabertooth(adamantium)

Daken

this, with a few added

#11 Posted by Batman242 (4860 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm only thinking of Wolverine

Daken

Deathstroke (maybe)

#12 Posted by HereComesTheBoom_Headshot (321 posts) - - Show Bio

Psylocke, X-23, Black Canary, Batgirl, Huntress, Spider-Woman. To name some.

#13 Posted by Stompa (1257 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux said:

@stompa: He can kill, but he is certainly less likely to do so with Morals

Against heroes i would agree even though i think he would go for the kill if he thinks he looses against hero i don´t really see him having issues.

#14 Edited by Stompa (1257 posts) - - Show Bio

Psylocke, X-23, Black Canary, Batgirl, Huntress, Spider-Woman. To name some.

Uhm don´t get me wrong but have you actually read a comic with Backlash in it?

#15 Edited by laflux (15069 posts) - - Show Bio

@stompa said:

@herecomestheboom_headshot said:

Psylocke, X-23, Black Canary, Batgirl, Huntress, Spider-Woman. To name some.

Uhm don´t get me wrong but have you actually read a comic with Backlash in it?

Oh dear, a bit harsh :P, but Batgirl (even Cassie) and Huntress would get stomped. Psylocke vs Backlash I'd say is similar to Grifter vs Backlash, I could see her winning. X-23 would lose, as would Black Canary (she'd probably get blitzed especially morals on). I would only say Spider-Woman would have a chance due to her Pheromones.

#16 Posted by Stompa (1257 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux said:

@stompa said:

@herecomestheboom_headshot said:

Psylocke, X-23, Black Canary, Batgirl, Huntress, Spider-Woman. To name some.

Uhm don´t get me wrong but have you actually read a comic with Backlash in it?

Oh dear, a bit harsh :P, but Batgirl (even Cassie) and Huntress would get stomped. Psylocke vs Backlash I'd say is similar to Grifter vs Backlash, I could see her winning. X-23 would lose, as would Black Canary (she'd probably get blitzed especially morals on). I would only say Spider-Woman would have a chance due to her Pheromones.

I am sorry but i was kinda shocked when i saw Huntress. :-p I agree with all of the rest only i don´t think Psylock could win........

#17 Edited by Strider92 (16240 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux: Your Morals On list I pretty much agree with except Classic BP. What makes him better or worse than current one? Morals Off i'm not sure about BP again what has he done recently? and there's no prep here :). I also should have specified the version and No BFR (they've got to beat him head on) i'll add that to the OP. Just to clarify this Half-Gen factor Backlash (the one pictured) the one who has best control over his abilities and prior to his whips becoming stupidly OPed.

Psylocke, X-23, Black Canary, Batgirl, Huntress, Spider-Woman. To name some.

I'd like to see some arguments for Psylocke, Black Canary, Bat-girl and Huntress because as far as i'm aware they shouldn't be able to do much to Slayton. Spider-woman (Jessica) would have a shot with Morals On due to her pheromones but even then it would be tough.

Fantomex

Depends if his Misdirection will work here or not. Being Kherubim his mind functions differently to humans and projects a strong psionic field. The last time someone tried to use mental manipulation the pisonic backlash (one of the reasons he has his name) almost fried the enemies brain.

I'm only thinking of Wolverine

Daken

Deathstroke (maybe)

Wolverine is a safe bet. I can honestly see that ending as a stalemate or Incap via psi-whips. With Morals On Daken has a shot too. Don't think he could pull a win with Morals Off. With Morals On DS has a small shot. I wouldn't bet on him but he could. With Morals Off I don't see Slade coming close to a majority.

@pierpat said:

sabertooth(adamantium)

Daken

this, with a few added

Adamantium Sabretooth is an interesting one. Care to explain why you think he could take it? Daken definitely has a shot with Morals On however I wouldn't like his chances with Backlash's morals off.

@strider92: Midnighter is not street level, just putting that out there.

Deathstroke could probably handle this, but without prep, Wolverine would probably be a better choice. Or Bullseye. Bullseye could do this.

I never mentioned Midnighter O.O. As I said just now I think Wolverine (adamantium) is a pretty safe bet he could most likely outlast Slayton unless he gets incapped by psi-whips. I'm not sure Bullseye could win this under any circumstance. Care to explain your choice?

#18 Edited by gumflabica (2197 posts) - - Show Bio

@strider92: sorry, i wasnt saying that directly to you, i just knew somebody would try to use midnighter.

I think Bullseye could have a chance at this because of his unpredictability, and pinpoint accuracy. with standard gear, bullseye would have stuff like knives, cards, small explosives, handguns, and in hawkeye costume he would have all those trick arrows too. I really do think that bullseye could stand a chance, because he is an excellent fighter close range, and has no match in long range. Bullseye never misses.

"Aaagh! Dog in the eye! Damnit!" - Mac Gargan a.k.a Venom

#19 Posted by laflux (15069 posts) - - Show Bio

@strider92: I meant Classic Black Tarantula as in (BT) lol. Even then I'd say its debatable, more debatable than Peter even, since he does like to tank damage and his movement speed and combat speed is probably a tad under Peter's, based on feats. He does make up for it with an Overwhelming Physical advantage in Strength and Resilience.

#20 Edited by Sovereign91001 (4182 posts) - - Show Bio

@strider92

I don't see why it wouldn't work here. Fantomex has misdirected Jean Grey and Professor X at the same time, misdirection seems to bypass psychic defense. As far as not human minds he misdirected Apocalypse's horsemen. The only time besides Dark Beast prepping Fantomex's misdirection with some device he made I can recall it failing were against robotic enemies.

#21 Edited by Strider92 (16240 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux said:

@strider92: I meant Classic Black Tarantula as in (BT) lol. Even then I'd say its debatable, more debatable than Peter even, since he does like to tank damage and his movement speed and combat speed is probably a tad under Peter's, based on feats. He does make up for it with an Overwhelming Physical advantage in Strength and Resilience.

Ahhh BT lol that makes mroe sense!

@sovereign91001 said:

@strider92

I don't see why it wouldn't work here. Fantomex has misdirected Jean Grey and Professor X at the same time, misdirection seems to bypass psychic defense. As far as not human minds he misdirected Apocalypse's horsemen. The only time besides Dark Beast prepping Fantomex's misdirection with some device he made I can recall it failing were against robotic enemies.

The difference is neither Jean Grey or Prof X have any natural defenses against it. Backlash was born with his. He can't make illusions, use TP or anything like that but he is naturally immune to it. People like Jean Grey or Prof X have to make a conscious effort to fight back and defend because Fantomex can distort their sense of perception he can simply make them think they are fighting back when really they aren't. Backlash doesn't need to think to activate his pisonic backlash its always active. IIRC Fantomex has never fought someone who is naturally immune to this kind of attack just very powerful telepaths so its not really possible to prove it could or couldn't work on BL. For example Psylocke is supposedly immune to reality warping thanks to her brother Jamie changing the fabric of reality around her but because she has never fought a strong reality warper such as say Proteus in this kind of battle we can't tell for sure. All we know is that she should be immune to it so to make an argument that she isn't despite the fact that its been stated seems pointless. The same applies here.

#22 Posted by KMART4455 (1290 posts) - - Show Bio

Im pretty sure Iron Fist could take this.

#23 Posted by Pierpat (2669 posts) - - Show Bio

@pierpat said:

sabertooth(adamantium)

Daken

this, with a few added

Adamantium Sabretooth is an interesting one. Care to explain why you think he could take it? Daken definitely has a shot with Morals On however I wouldn't like his chances with Backlash's morals off.

Sabertooth is ruthless, as proven to have a very high combat speed(keeping up with his brother...) and simply won't be killed.It could take a while, but he can and will win.

I have some other ones:

Cyber(more or less same reasons of sabertooth,+ his envenomed claws and his enached durability)

Moon night(night time)

#24 Posted by Strider92 (16240 posts) - - Show Bio

@pierpat: I don't know much about Cyber so I can't give an educated reply. However I am a Moon Knight fan and I can say with absolute certainty there is no version (expect that one who was possessed by Khonshu and beat the crap out of some of the Avengers) that can take on Backlash without prep.

While Sabretooth can't be killed easily he can be KO'd and Slayton was strong enough to one-shot a military APC (basically a tank without the big gun). Combined with his speed and agility that isn't far off Spider-man's and that he can go intangible at will I don't really see Sabe's taking a majority. However I could be swayed if you've got some feats for me :)

#25 Posted by SSJLozza (1528 posts) - - Show Bio

Buffy

#26 Posted by laflux (15069 posts) - - Show Bio

@ssjlozza said:

Buffy

I don't even know anymore.............................

Do you have any idea what Backlash can do?

#27 Posted by Pierpat (2669 posts) - - Show Bio

@pierpat: I don't know much about Cyber so I can't give an educated reply. However I am a Moon Knight fan and I can say with absolute certainty there is no version (expect that one who was possessed by Khonshu and beat the crap out of some of the Avengers) that can take on Backlash without prep.

While Sabretooth can't be killed easily he can be KO'd and Slayton was strong enough to one-shot a military APC (basically a tank without the big gun). Combined with his speed and agility that isn't far off Spider-man's and that he can go intangible at will I don't really see Sabe's taking a majority. However I could be swayed if you've got some feats for me :)

Sure!About moon knight with adamantium blades he could be lucky and one-shot him.I know well that if the fight lasts alot moon night is doomed.

Cyber Has all his skin replaced with adamantium-like tissue, is a 10 tonner, has matched wolverine's h2h abilities and has trained daken, has 10 adamantium blades in his hands,each one coated with very poisonus sustenances.

About sabertooth:

Here was punched by sasquatch, and even if it hurt him, he was still alive and conscious.Well, sasquatch is a 80/100+ class(depending on the author)

#28 Posted by New_World_Order (12945 posts) - - Show Bio

Gorgon.

Online
#29 Edited by Buckshot (18914 posts) - - Show Bio

Most of these characters aren't street level...

Moderator
#30 Posted by laflux (15069 posts) - - Show Bio

@buckshot said:

Most of these characters aren't street level...

You could make the argument that Backlash isn't either.......

#31 Posted by ghost_rider1 (3445 posts) - - Show Bio

I would say wolverine and daken has a chance here. If misdirection works....which im pretty sure it would. Fantomex can win also. I am also confident that sebastian shaw could win if he gains enough energy before backlash incapacitate him. I think a pissed off deadpool with prep would be a serious problem also. He would come in with a bomb strapped to his chest

#32 Posted by SSJLozza (1528 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux said:

@ssjlozza said:

Buffy

I don't even know anymore.............................

Do you have any idea what Backlash can do?

yeah I looked him up on the cv page, he's an immortal warrior with massive whips and high levels of agility plus some psionic powers. He may be immortal but Buffy can break his whips (which is apparently possible with great strength) and then put him out with one punch.

#33 Edited by Buckshot (18914 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux said:

@buckshot said:

Most of these characters aren't street level...

You could make the argument that Backlash isn't either.......

right, but that would be the challenge

Moderator
#34 Edited by laflux (15069 posts) - - Show Bio

@ssjlozza said:

@laflux said:

@ssjlozza said:

Buffy

I don't even know anymore.............................

Do you have any idea what Backlash can do?

yeah I looked him up on the cv page, he's an immortal warrior with massive whips and high levels of agility plus some psionic powers. He may be immortal but Buffy can break his whips (which is apparently possible with great strength) and then put him out with one punch.

Not just "high" "standard street leveler" levels of agility and speed. He's probably Spider-Man level in that regard. So he's significantly faster than Buffy. His whips are not physical they are Psionic. And he's physical attributes are more than enough to contend with Buffy (he's enhanced due to his kheribuim heritage), as he dominated Zealot in H2H, who is at least on the same level as Buffy physically (being kind to Buffy here) and far outranks the slayer in skill.

So Backlash is faster, far more skilled, at least on the same level physically. He wouldn't even need his misting abilities or whips to win, Morals on or off.

#35 Posted by ChaosMarvel (997 posts) - - Show Bio

Aside from Wolverine no-one else mentioned can beat a bloodlusted Backlash.

#36 Edited by laflux (15069 posts) - - Show Bio

Aside from Wolverine no-one else mentioned can beat a bloodlusted Backlash.

how so?

#37 Edited by Floopay (8721 posts) - - Show Bio

The following could likely do it morals on or off:

Cloud Strife (especially morals off bloodlusted) (Final Fantasy 7)

The One Sought After (Code: Breaker) (Space Manipulation, Cellular Regeneration, Superhuman Stats)

Inuyasha (Inuyasha), any version post Cutting Wind technique

First Suit Spawn (Spawn)

Greed (Ling) (Full Metal Alchemist)

Free (Soul Eater)

Fantomex (Marvel)

Deadpool (Marvel) - Could being the key word, probably wouldn't take the majority

Wolverine (Marvel) - Could being the key word, probably wouldn't take the majority

Gamibt (Marvel) - Especially morals off

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

#38 Posted by Bo88gdan (4393 posts) - - Show Bio

Blob

#39 Posted by HyperViper97 (1342 posts) - - Show Bio

A lot have been named, I'm just gonna throw bloodlusted deadpool in the mix. Oh and archangel. And most of x force lol

#40 Posted by jashro44 (20552 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm not an expert on backlash but I doubt deadpool could beat him from what I know.

Online
#41 Posted by ChaosMarvel (997 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux: because if he's bloodlusted Backlash can simply enter their bodies in his mist form and kill them from the inside out. Wolverine and his adamantium skeleton can resist that. No-one else is taking a human reforming inside their bodies and not getting instantly killed or ko'd at the very least.

#42 Posted by laflux (15069 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux: because if he's bloodlusted Backlash can simply enter their bodies in his mist form and kill them from the inside out. Wolverine and his adamantium skeleton can resist that. No-one else is taking a human reforming inside their bodies and not getting instantly killed or ko'd at the very least.

Its not as simple as that. Gorgon is fast enough to possibly tag Backlash before that happens, and can hit him with the stone gaze. Plus he has healing to rival wolverine.

Midnighter could just Door mist, though BFR isn't allowed (I didn't read OP when I made the list).

I'm pretty certain Nemesis could beat Backlash at least for a minority. As well as having Kheribuim level stats and being a master sword-woman with blades that can cut through anything, she also has force-fields and Grenades that attack your DNA and can kill in one hit.

Deathstroke is a beast with Prep (Though the OP doesn't allow Prep)

Current BP can teleport to avoid the mist, and has the means to hurt Backlash- Energy Daggers, Anti-Metal claws etc. He also has comparable skill.

#43 Edited by ChaosMarvel (997 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux said:

Its not as simple as that. Gorgon is fast enough to possibly tag Backlash before that happens, and can hit him with the stone gaze. Plus he has healing to rival wolverine.

Midnighter could just Door mist, though BFR isn't allowed (I didn't read OP when I made the list).

I'm pretty certain Nemesis could beat Backlash at least for a minority. As well as having Kheribuim level stats and being a master sword-woman with blades that can cut through anything, she also has force-fields and Grenades that attack your DNA and can kill in one hit.

Deathstroke is a beast with Prep (Though the OP doesn't allow Prep)

Current BP can teleport to avoid the mist, and has the means to hurt Backlash- Energy Daggers, Anti-Metal claws etc. He also has comparable skill.

Backlash's whips and misting work as fast as he can think so unless Gorgon can get to him faster than he can think I don't see that happening and given Wolverine was able to fight him despite the speed difference it seems even more unlikely. Dooring would only get Midnighter so far this is the version of Backlash who can go intangible at will yes? If so its only a matter of time before Backlash gets a hold of him. Nemesis on the other hand could win here. I didn't see you'd posted her. I agree she could win this due to her shields. Without prep Deathstroke isn't even coming close to wining a fight here in my opinion. As far as BP is concerned it seems to come down to the same thing as Midnighter. He can teleport around but how is he going to damage someone who can go intangible at will without limitation?

#44 Edited by Strider92 (16240 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux: because if he's bloodlusted Backlash can simply enter their bodies in his mist form and kill them from the inside out. Wolverine and his adamantium skeleton can resist that. No-one else is taking a human reforming inside their bodies and not getting instantly killed or ko'd at the very least.

Long time no see man O.O. Where you been?

As you brought up the misting kill I may as well post the scan:

#45 Edited by ChaosMarvel (997 posts) - - Show Bio
#46 Posted by Racob7 (5528 posts) - - Show Bio

Guyver III without using the megasmasher or the gigantic/exceed transformation.

#47 Posted by Strider92 (16240 posts) - - Show Bio

@chaosmarvel: Yeah i'm fine :D u?

@racob7: I've seen Guyver compared to Iron Man in the past. Pretty sure he exceeds the limit.

#48 Posted by Racob7 (5528 posts) - - Show Bio

@strider92:

Yeah come to think of it he's probably closer to huge building or city block level with pressure cannons and what not.

#49 Posted by SSJLozza (1528 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux said:

@ssjlozza said:

@laflux said:

@ssjlozza said:

Buffy

I don't even know anymore.............................

Do you have any idea what Backlash can do?

yeah I looked him up on the cv page, he's an immortal warrior with massive whips and high levels of agility plus some psionic powers. He may be immortal but Buffy can break his whips (which is apparently possible with great strength) and then put him out with one punch.

Not just "high" "standard street leveler" levels of agility and speed. He's probably Spider-Man level in that regard. So he's significantly faster than Buffy. His whips are not physical they are Psionic. And he's physical attributes are more than enough to contend with Buffy (he's enhanced due to his kheribuim heritage), as he dominated Zealot in H2H, who is at least on the same level as Buffy physically (being kind to Buffy here) and far outranks the slayer in skill.

So Backlash is faster, far more skilled, at least on the same level physically. He wouldn't even need his misting abilities or whips to win, Morals on or off.

None of that would help against Buffy, she'd use her innate Slayer instincts to dodge his whips and kick him several times in the face. Bloodlust on she'd just hack him in two with the scythe. How can you say he's more skilled? Buffy has done a fair amount of training plus she has natural instincts, add that to her experience (gained from previous Slayers) and she stomps.

#50 Posted by laflux (15069 posts) - - Show Bio

@ssjlozza: You know what......

Good for you