" @Silver2467: What makes you think Captain America is more physically comparable to Batman as opposed to Deathstroke? The reason I have some reservation with Elektra and Iron Fist(though for the most part I do think Deathstroke would beat them quite handily), is that Deathstroke's record one on one against beings of reputable skill is somewhat.........dodgy. Needless to say, people have a habit for overestimating him(he's my favorite comic-book character, and the one I know about more than any other, but I find myself in the position most often making a case for his defeat). "
Because BatMan has feats that put him just under Cap physically. Deathstroke is enhanced, whereas BatMan is only peak human. Deathstroke has demolished Bats as a result of his enhancements. He said that himself. That's why. Cap is more skilled, as BatMan is, but Deathstroke should be physically superior, as well as having superhuman senses, healing, and the ability the think 9 times faster.
Deathstroke has defeated BatMan and held his own against Cassandra (who is quite possibly the best fighter on New Earth). Iron Fist and Elektra are good, but they're nothing Deathstroke hasn't handled before. Bats has physical feats at least comparable if not superior to Elektra, and Cassandra is more skilled than Iron Fist.
" @Silver2467: I understand what you're saying, but that being considered, I haven't seen Deathstroke perfrom any physical feats Cap could not(as that would be the only way to properly gauge the respective differences of their physiological capabilities. That's why I put them about even, Deathstroke and the Captain). I haven't seen their lastest bouts, but the one I do recall, Deathstroke had in fact barely etched out the victory against Batman(only because of his attributes did he, as well as his ruthless agression, being well aware that eventually Batman would fatigue. With Captain America, that is not a viable tactic given his nigh unlimite stamina). "
" @Silver2467: Crap, I forgot about Sensei's shoddy endurance(revise that to Sensei if had stamina greater than that of a several hundred year old man). "
I still doubt he'd defeat Deathstroke. Bats got stabbed, if I remember correctly, and he still pushed Sensei into that fountain. (I haven't looked at that in a while.)
" @Silver2467: Crap, I forgot about Sensei's shoddy endurance(revise that to Sensei if had stamina greater than that of a several hundred year old man). "
I still doubt he'd defeat Deathstroke. Bats got stabbed, if I remember correctly, and he still pushed Sensei into that fountain. (I haven't looked at that in a while.) "
Ok, re-revise that into "Sensei if he had stamina greater than that of a several hundred year old man, and there are no enchanted fountains that smite the impure of soul or moral to be pushed into"(hahaha). "
Bats beat him with a stab wound (albeit, by pushing him into a fountain). He's still not beating Deathstroke.
Bats beat him with a stab wound (albeit, by pushing him into a fountain). He's still not beating Deathstroke. "
Yeah. I'd take it that that "stamina of a several hundred year old man" was the cause of such(as a matter of fact, he more or less stated as much). Anyway, given the proper the physical endurance befitting that of a world class fighter(much less one with centuries of experience to call upon), yes Deathstroke would be defeated(soundly at that). He has been by less. "
I wouldn't say that. Bats managed to do that even when severely wounded. Deathstroke>BatMan>Sensei.
" @Silver2467: What I mean is given the proper endurance; which basically the character doesn't have. Obviously the Sensei was eventually defeated because he couldn't continue to mount such an over-bearing offense. That's not debatable. That is in fact, why he lost, he couldn't continue to fight because his stamina had deteriorated I.E. exhaustion(which is why he was stabbed, because it took a toll his physical attributes *or reactionary time*). What I was saying was more or less strictly hypothetical(and would have stripped him of such shortcomings). "
I'm not sure I follow this. You said that Sensei was defeated because he grew tired (which is true), but then you brought up being stabbed. But Bats was the one who was stabbed. Now, I haven't taken a thorough look at that in a while; so maybe I'm just not remembering.
Even still though, I hold to Deathstroke>BatMan>Sensei.
BatMan- No. (Deathstroke has defeated him before. BatMan's more skilled than Deathstroke is, to some degree, but Deathstroke's enhancements more than make up for that.)
Captain America- I doubt it. (Cap is roughly equal to BatMan in combat skill. Bats is more intelligent. Cap is slightly superior physically. And their equipment (shield, gadgets) pretty much cancel each other out. It may be ABC logic, but Deathstroke has defeated BatMan. Considering the similarities between Bats and Cap and Deathstroke's victories over Bats, I think Deathstroke should probably win.)
Lady Shiva- Possibly. (Shiva's one of the top two fighters on New Earth, along with Cassandra. She is at a disadvantage in physical stats, but she is more skilled than he is. Considering that BatMan has stalemated Shiva before, Deathstroke may very well be able to defeat her. On the other hand, I don't want to underestimate Shiva's skill. Could go either way.)
Richard Dragon- I doubt it. (Richard Dragon is just under Shiva and Cassandra in combat skill. However, despite the fact that he's more skilled than BatMan, Bats has stalemated him. Deathstroke is less skilled than he is, but his enhancements usually make up the difference.)
Cassandra Cain- Possibly. (Cassandra is one of the two best fighters on New Earth, but Deathstroke does have an advantage because of his powers. Cassandra has fought him before, but if I remember correctly, she's also said that Deathstroke could defeat her.)
Bronze Tiger- Probably. (I would say no for the same reasons as Dragon, but he's already had the advantage over Deathstroke in a fight they had.)
Iron Fist w/o Chi- No. (Iron Fist is one of the best fighters in Marvel, and I would say he's more skilled than Deathstroke. But Deathstroke has defeated or at least stalemated more skilled fighters than himself before. Iron Fist shouldn't be an exception.)
Elektra w/o powers- No. (Elektra's an excellent combatant, and she should be slightly more skilled than Slade. But Deathstroke's powers should make up for that. He's taken on the best in DC, and although Elektra's very skilled, she's not the top fighter in Marvel.)
Bullseye- No. (Bullseye has defeated some skilled fighters before, but I doubt he's as skilled as Slade. But even if he is, Deathstroke still has his metahuman strength, speed, healing, senses, and thought processes to make up for that.)
Ra's al Ghul- No. (Ra's is a brilliant martial artist, but he's been defeated by BatMan more than once. Deathstroke should be able to defeat him.)
Shang-Chi- No. (Shang-Chi's one of the best in Marvel, but despite a few statements, I don't believe he's the single best. That said, Deathstroke should be able to defeat him.)
Punisher- No. (Deathstroke should be superior to Punisher in, not only physical power, but combat skill as well.)
Black Canary w/o Canary Cry- No. (Canary's one of the best, but she's not good enough to handle Deathstroke. Canary has held her own against Shiva, but BatMan has done the same. And Bats is physically and mentally superior to her. Deathstroke was able to defeat BatMan because of his enhancements. Once again, Deathstroke's defeated more skilled fighters.)
Connor Hawke- No. (Connor's also one of the best, but he's not in the top 5. Whereas Deathstroke has taken on several in the top 5. Connor should be slightly more skilled than Slade, but, based on showings, that in itself is enough to handle Deathstroke.)
Constantine Drakon- I doubt it. (Constantine doesn't have too many appearances, and thus, it may be a little early to determine whether or not he could compete with Deathstroke. However, he has defeated Connor Hawke, but that isn't enough to say he could defeat Deathstroke. Whatever Drakon may supersede Slade in as far as skill, assuming he does, Deathstroke makes up for with his physical strength, speed, healing, senses, and mental accelerations.)
My opinion on what you've said, as asked on none meta-humans Batman: no, I agree, evidence is there Captain America: If Batman can't take him, Cap won't either. They are equal when it comes to combat Lady Shiva: Possibly one of the two humans without powers that could Richard Dragon: the other Cassandra: No way, Shiva is better then her. She only lost to Cassie because she wasn't trying to kill her Bronze Tiger: Maybe, I still haven't made up my opinion yet as to if that victory was PIS Elektra without powers: Hell no, slade would murder her. Ra's Al'Ghul: He'd lose in a fight, that's never been where his greatest strenght lies anyway Bulleye: not even close, anything relevant to this fight Bullseye can do, Slade is better at it Shiang shi: No way, Cap can beat him, Slade will too. Punisher: never, he's not even in the same league Black Canary: No she'd die, horribly Connor Hawke: No, he's lost in the past in a consistent manner and nothing shown leads us to believe he could win Constantine Drakon: Maybe, but I doubt it. We haven't seen him beat an opponent quite near Slade's level yet. But he's shown his lethality
@Silver2467 said:
Wolverine: No. (Wolverine's one of the best fighters in Marvel, but he has been defeated by fighters like Daredevil, Elektra, and Iron Fist without his Chi, among others. On top of that, he rarely utilizes his skill. Deathstroke could defeat Logan.)
Black Panther- Yes. (Panther is only slightly below Captain America in combat skill. That should put him a little above Deathstroke in that area. As well, Deathstroke's powers won't make up for it, because of Panther's own superhuman physical attributes, such as strength, speed, and senses. Panther should be able to win.)
Iron Fist with Chi- Yes. (With his Chi, Iron Fist could easily slaughter Deathstroke.)
Black Widow- No. (Widow's one of the best, but I haven't seen anything from her that would suggest she can defeat an opponent as deadly as Slade. She may be more skilled than he is by a small margin, but he still has greater metahuman advantages over her.)
Daredevil- No. (Daredevil's good, but he's not the best. Deathstroke has defeated better.)
Elektra with powers- Probably. (If she uses her silent scream, she'll defeat him. Otherwise, she'll still lose.)
Black Canary with Canary Cry- Probably. (Like Elektra, if she uses her scream, she'll defeat him. Otherwise, she'll still lose.)
Deadpool- No. (Deadpool's a very good fighter, but he has been defeated by opponents inferior to Deathstroke.
Taskmaster- No. (Taskmaster has some very good showings, and logically, should be superior to Deathstroke in skill. However, he has just as many, if not more low showings. Even if Taskmaster is more skilled than Deathstroke, Deathstroke's physical augmentations should gain him the win.)
"
On metahumans: Wolverine: Never, Slade would annihilate him. Black Panther: I'd say yes with his recent boost. Without it, never Iron fist: with his chi powers, without a doubt, without them, Slade would kill him Black Widow: She would get murdered. I'm sure the funeral from shield would be nice Daredevil: Slade could eat him for breakfast any day of the week Elektra with powers: give him firearms and he'd kill her Deadpool: Are you serious? Slade would give him the slapping of a lifetime Taskmaster: no, not in the same league Black Canary: Again give him a firearm and she's dead, That cry won't save her
@Dark Noldor: please, this is a guy who's tagged the Flash and Superman, he faces blades wielded by far superior fighters all the time. He's taken out enemies far superior to wolverine. Slade would beat the snot out of him and send him back to the X-mansion with a nice pretty bow on his head and letter with the phrase "better luck next time losers" writyen on
BatMan- No. (Deathstroke has defeated him before. BatMan's more skilled than Deathstroke is, to some degree, but Deathstroke's enhancements more than make up for that.)
Captain America- I doubt it. (Cap is roughly equal to BatMan in combat skill. Bats is more intelligent. Cap is slightly superior physically. And their equipment (shield, gadgets) pretty much cancel each other out. It may be ABC logic, but Deathstroke has defeated BatMan. Considering the similarities between Bats and Cap and Deathstroke's victories over Bats, I think Deathstroke should probably win.)
Lady Shiva- Possibly. (Shiva's one of the top two fighters on New Earth, along with Cassandra. She is at a disadvantage in physical stats, but she is more skilled than he is. Considering that BatMan has stalemated Shiva before, Deathstroke may very well be able to defeat her. On the other hand, I don't want to underestimate Shiva's skill. Could go either way.)
Richard Dragon- I doubt it. (Richard Dragon is just under Shiva and Cassandra in combat skill. However, despite the fact that he's more skilled than BatMan, Bats has stalemated him. Deathstroke is less skilled than he is, but his enhancements usually make up the difference.)
Cassandra Cain- Possibly. (Cassandra is one of the two best fighters on New Earth, but Deathstroke does have an advantage because of his powers. Cassandra has fought him before, but if I remember correctly, she's also said that Deathstroke could defeat her.)
Bronze Tiger- Probably. (I would say no for the same reasons as Dragon, but he's already had the advantage over Deathstroke in a fight they had.)
Iron Fist w/o Chi- No. (Iron Fist is one of the best fighters in Marvel, and I would say he's more skilled than Deathstroke. But Deathstroke has defeated or at least stalemated more skilled fighters than himself before. Iron Fist shouldn't be an exception.)
Elektra w/o powers- No. (Elektra's an excellent combatant, and she should be slightly more skilled than Slade. But Deathstroke's powers should make up for that. He's taken on the best in DC, and although Elektra's very skilled, she's not the top fighter in Marvel.)
Bullseye- No. (Bullseye has defeated some skilled fighters before, but I doubt he's as skilled as Slade. But even if he is, Deathstroke still has his metahuman strength, speed, healing, senses, and thought processes to make up for that.)
Ra's al Ghul- No. (Ra's is a brilliant martial artist, but he's been defeated by BatMan more than once. Deathstroke should be able to defeat him.)
Shang-Chi- No. (Shang-Chi's one of the best in Marvel, but despite a few statements, I don't believe he's the single best. That said, Deathstroke should be able to defeat him.)
Punisher- No. (Deathstroke should be superior to Punisher in, not only physical power, but combat skill as well.)
Black Canary w/o Canary Cry- No. (Canary's one of the best, but she's not good enough to handle Deathstroke. Canary has held her own against Shiva, but BatMan has done the same. And Bats is physically and mentally superior to her. Deathstroke was able to defeat BatMan because of his enhancements. Once again, Deathstroke's defeated more skilled fighters.)
Connor Hawke- No. (Connor's also one of the best, but he's not in the top 5. Whereas Deathstroke has taken on several in the top 5. Connor should be slightly more skilled than Slade, but, based on showings, that in itself is enough to handle Deathstroke.)
Constantine Drakon- I doubt it. (Constantine doesn't have too many appearances, and thus, it may be a little early to determine whether or not he could compete with Deathstroke. However, he has defeated Connor Hawke, but that isn't enough to say he could defeat Deathstroke. Whatever Drakon may supersede Slade in as far as skill, assuming he does, Deathstroke makes up for with his physical strength, speed, healing, senses, and mental accelerations.)
My opinion on what you've said, as asked on none meta-humans Batman: no, I agree, evidence is there Captain America: If Batman can't take him, Cap won't either. They are equal when it comes to combat Lady Shiva: Possibly one of the two humans without powers that could Richard Dragon: the other Cassandra: No way, Shiva is better then her. She only lost to Cassie because she wasn't trying to kill her Bronze Tiger: Maybe, I still haven't made up my opinion yet as to if that victory was PIS Elektra without powers: Hell no, slade would murder her. Ra's Al'Ghul: He'd lose in a fight, that's never been where his greatest strenght lies anyway Bulleye: not even close, anything relevant to this fight Bullseye can do, Slade is better at it Shiang shi: No way, Cap can beat him, Slade will too. Punisher: never, he's not even in the same league Black Canary: No she'd die, horribly Connor Hawke: No, he's lost in the past in a consistent manner and nothing shown leads us to believe he could win Constantine Drakon: Maybe, but I doubt it. We haven't seen him beat an opponent quite near Slade's level yet. But he's shown his lethality
@Silver2467 said:
Wolverine: No. (Wolverine's one of the best fighters in Marvel, but he has been defeated by fighters like Daredevil, Elektra, and Iron Fist without his Chi, among others. On top of that, he rarely utilizes his skill. Deathstroke could defeat Logan.)
Black Panther- Yes. (Panther is only slightly below Captain America in combat skill. That should put him a little above Deathstroke in that area. As well, Deathstroke's powers won't make up for it, because of Panther's own superhuman physical attributes, such as strength, speed, and senses. Panther should be able to win.)
Iron Fist with Chi- Yes. (With his Chi, Iron Fist could easily slaughter Deathstroke.)
Black Widow- No. (Widow's one of the best, but I haven't seen anything from her that would suggest she can defeat an opponent as deadly as Slade. She may be more skilled than he is by a small margin, but he still has greater metahuman advantages over her.)
Daredevil- No. (Daredevil's good, but he's not the best. Deathstroke has defeated better.)
Elektra with powers- Probably. (If she uses her silent scream, she'll defeat him. Otherwise, she'll still lose.)
Black Canary with Canary Cry- Probably. (Like Elektra, if she uses her scream, she'll defeat him. Otherwise, she'll still lose.)
Deadpool- No. (Deadpool's a very good fighter, but he has been defeated by opponents inferior to Deathstroke.
Taskmaster- No. (Taskmaster has some very good showings, and logically, should be superior to Deathstroke in skill. However, he has just as many, if not more low showings. Even if Taskmaster is more skilled than Deathstroke, Deathstroke's physical augmentations should gain him the win.)
"
On metahumans: Wolverine: Never, Slade would annihilate him. Black Panther: I'd say yes with his recent boost. Without it, never Iron fist: with his chi powers, without a doubt, without them, Slade would kill him Black Widow: She would get murdered. I'm sure the funeral from shield would be nice Daredevil: Slade could eat him for breakfast any day of the week Elektra with powers: give him firearms and he'd kill her Deadpool: Are you serious? Slade would give him the slapping of a lifetime Taskmaster: no, not in the same league Black Canary: Again give him a firearm and she's dead, That cry won't save her "
" @Silver2467: Basically what I meant was, 'give Sensei physical resiliency and stamina on par with someone like, say, Batman, and he should have it well in hand'. "
@Gambler: No it's not. Cassie tracked down Shiva to relearn how to read people, Shiva killed her then revived her. Cassie then won because Shiva wanted her to join her. Shiva is better then Cassie.
@Xi Felix: Except physical evidence is there that he is far superior physically to Cap. He's dodged the entire teen titans easy, he's tagged Flash. And your Cap vs Bats argument won't hold because: 1-Bat lost to Slade clearly and evidently 2-Crossovers are poor evidence, so citing Cap vs Bats isn't worth anything. Slade would kill Captain america and put his shield over his fire place.
(Concerning Captain America, which I can already tell this will be a case of "agree to disagree" because you seem to hold the opinion that Deathstroke's physical advantage is any more than negligible, which I have seen nothing to suggest) Yes, Captain America is roughly equal to Batman in Martial Arts skill, but the truth was made evident in their first encounter that resiliency made the greatest difference; Batman still had Deathstroke on the ropes for much of the battle, but eventually grew weary, while Deathstroke(due to his physical augmentations) did not. Cap's stamina is virtually limitless, so Deathstroke can't exploit any such shortcoming. "
Deathstroke didn't win because BatMan got tired. He won because he beat the crap out of BatMan. Besides, BatMan fought for a few days on end during Knightfall. Stamina ins't going to make much difference.
" @Gambler: No it's not. Cassie tracked down Shiva to relearn how to read people, Shiva killed her then revived her. Cassie then won because Shiva wanted her to join her. Shiva is better then Cassie. "
Wrong. Re-read the issue(s). Its Cass who actually sacrifices herself and wanted to die cause she felt guilty for having killed a man when she was a child (this is confirmed on panel by both Shiva and Cass). Shiva doesnt bring her back so Cass could join her, not sure where you got that from. Shiva brought her back and showed her all her trophies (pictures of the people she killed over the years) knowing it would cause Cass to fight her again only this time Cass wouldn't hold back. Shiva wanted to fight someone who was fully capable of killing her. Again, this is all confirmed on panel. This is all moot however cause this is one of their earliest fights. Cass doesnt even know Shiva is her mother at this point. They fight again in the very last issue of the series and Cass not only defeats Shiva (rather easily), but kills her.
An argument could be made that Shiva is better, but not because of anything you've posted above. Sorry dude, its just wrong information.
" @Crom-Cruach: Man, no way Slade could finish Logan...once the knuclehead got a grip on him, it's Slade slices for dinner"
You're kidding yourself with this post, although it was far from the worst one in this thread (you claimed that the Punisher could beat Slade). Then again, you also said that Thanos could beat Black Adam without prep.....................
" what does Batman's "fighting for a few day on end during Knightfall" have to do with anything? "
it invalidates your stamina argument as it shows how much stamina Batman has even without the SS serum. If someone without the SS serum can fight this long non-stop and still lose to Slade, then Cap will too, tired or not.
@Xi Felix: Batman did not bring Slade to the brink of defeat. Slade kicked the crap out of him on more then one occasion. Scans proving this have been posted hundreds of times on this board. Slade leaves Bats a broken heap on the floor. Cap would be no different.
We are talking about Batman(Bruce Wayne, correct)? If so, I'm looking at the very issue right now, where Deathstroke leaves the fight limping, in extreme physical agony, and stating "I'd hate to go against him if my strength hadn't been increased
"
And in the next issue Slades injuries are further explored when he gets his ass handed to him by a Johnny No Name as a result of having sustained serious injuries in the Batman fight.
So basically you just told me that "Batman after having recently engaged in heavily strenuous physical exertion, took Deathstroke to the limit of his one on one combat prowess, and *while losing* left him so worn and torn, he was almost killed in the next issue by a rogue-cop". Not exactly making a great testement to Deathstroke's capabilites.
" For people using that fight with Batman injuring Slade, he owned Bats twice in the same issue while depowered. "
Wasn't the fact that he was de-powered the result of a recton? It wasnt revealed he was de-powered until a later issue, and during the fight Deathstroke even states that Batman is just a man, while he himself is enhanced.
@Gambler:Possibly, I remember Drake telling Bats that Deathstroke is considered a meta human, but I think that issue laid to rest that under normal circumstances Slade could defeat Bats soundly and as far as that instance in his own series where Batman injured him. A guy can repair his freaking spine yet can't heal from Batman's punches an issue later sounds like massive PIS to me.
" @Gambler:Possibly, I remember Drake telling Bats that Deathstroke is considered a meta human, but I think that issue laid to rest that under normal circumstances Slade could defeat Bats soundly and as far as that instance in his own series where Batman injured him. A guy can repair his freaking spine yet can't heal from Batman's punches an issue later sounds like massive PIS to me. "
I have the entire series, he suffered a great deal of injury of similar cause throughout.
@Xi Felix: His other solo series [the one from the mid 90's] has more of his consistent showings. I factor in his showings from that series and from the Titans as his consistent showings. Not that I'm ignoring his showings from the Terminator series but that most of that series had some shoddy writing.
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