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#1 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

Every Race, Warp God, Star God, Chaos God, Daemon, and Psyker vs Star Treks Races, Q, ect.

Ships vs Ships.

Tech vs Tech

Troops vs Troops.

Gods vs Q

Resources vs Resources

Go.

#2 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@ChaosMarvel: @AtPhantom: @Strider92: @Jonny_Anonymous:

What You all think?

#3 Posted by Baldy (5021 posts) - - Show Bio

Ships: I'd go with Star Trek.

Tech: Not sure... I suspect Star Trek again.

Troops: 40k easily.

Gods: Q hands down.

Resources: Pretty sure 40k has this, by sheer amount of worlds involved. This assumes that we are talking only about worlds mapped by the Federation. Otherwise it would probably be a draw.

#4 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

Tech I think Star Trek Beats the Imperium, Ork, Nids, and Daemons of Course. Tie with Tau. I belive Necron (who can wink Solar Systems from Existance by erasing a map) and Eldar (Warp Tech) are superior.

Ships would be a HUGE Debate as Ships in 40K could out number and Firepower compared to Numbers for Star Trek.

As seen in this to scale Ship Size a 40k Cruiser is VASTLY Larger and more armed and shileded than a Star Destoyer. SDs are lager than federation Ships. The Mere Esort and Destroyers (which are as numerous as Space Fighters) are same size of a Star Trek Federation Ship.

Troops Ill stay out of.

Gods vs Q. Another Debate as the Star Gods, Warp Gods, and Chaos Gods have shwon feats that surpass anything I seen q Done in the shows.

Resources Ill stay out of as I honeslty dont know how many Populated worlds are in Star Trek.

#5 Posted by Baldy (5021 posts) - - Show Bio

@CadenceV2 said:

Tech I think Star Trek Beats the Imperium, Ork, Nids, and Daemons of Course. Tie with Tau. I belive Necron (who can wink Solar Systems from Existance by erasing a map) and Eldar (Warp Tech) are superior.

Ships would be a HUGE Debate as Ships in 40K could out number and Firepower compared to Numbers for Star Trek.

As seen in this to scale Ship Size a 40k Cruiser is VASTLY Larger and more armed and shileded than a Star Destoyer. SDs are lager than federation Ships. The Mere Esort and Destroyers (which are as numerous as Space Fighters) are same size of a Star Trek Federation Ship.

Troops Ill stay out of.

Gods vs Q. Another Debate as the Star Gods, Warp Gods, and Chaos Gods have shwon feats that surpass anything I seen q Done in the shows.

Resources Ill stay out of as I honeslty dont know how many Populated worlds are in Star Trek.

Can you post Chaos God feats so that we can compare. I will from this very moment stop discussing Q in the other thread. That one should be locked anyway.

I was talking about ship quality, not fleet battles. In an all out war 40k has too many ships for most races in Star Trek to deal with. That said on a case by case basis, I think Star Trek ships are better. Can you post evidence for 40k ships being better than star destroyers, that's a huge claim.

Does Q tech count in technology? If it does then Star Trek wins, otherwise I'll have to think about it. Necron are pretty cool.

#6 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@Baldy: Agreed about the other thread. Ill be back after re reading some of the Novels can Codexes for quotes and feats.

#7 Posted by jwalser3 (4985 posts) - - Show Bio

Ships: Star Trek wins

Tech: I'm going to have to go with Star Trek

Troops: 40k in a massive stomp

The Gods beatQ

#8 Edited by Strider92 (16425 posts) - - Show Bio

@CadenceV2:

Ships vs Ships= If your using the whole 40k-verse then races like the Eldar and Tau are probably more advanced than Trek ships but Trek is probably more advanced that the Imperium.

Tech vs Tech= Again if your using the entire 40k-verse than Eldar, Tau and Necron are probably far more advanced.

Troops vs Troops= 40k in a murderstomp

Gods vs Q= staying out of this but probably the gods as they actually have better feats.

Resources vs Resources= Again it depends if your counting all the races. Eg: Eldar Wraithbone is probably one of the most powerful/versatile elements in fiction as you can shape it to become absolutely anything you want or the Nids who can break down all bio-mass and turn it into whatever they want.

Online
#9 Posted by AtPhantom (14521 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm going with WH in every category except Gods.

#10 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@Baldy: @AtPhantom: @Strider92:

Alrighty here are the feats and facts on pnael and via dex.

What the Gods are.

The Inffinit and Uncomprehensible Realm of Chaos. Including the Gods own Realms.

The Gods Gifts to therie Champions and what they expect in turn.

Chaos Daemon are mere Fractions of the Chaos Gods own Power. They are Vast and can destroy or Reality Warp on Planetary levels and their mere Fractions. Their Feats are their Gods Feats.

Minnions of khorn and their Feats thru him.

Mere Minnions of Nurgle and the Feats they alone have thru Nurgle.

Slaanesh Minnions.

Tzeentchs Biatches. Blue cribes describ how Tzeentch had the power over the whole Universe and Time. The other 3 Gods made him split that power. He also know the Futur that will happen, not might, but will Happen thanks to Fate Weaver. He knows all.

A great Story on a Whole ork Waaagh made a Daemon Prince of Khorn eternal Slaves. Q ever do this kinda thing? Ever?

Slaanesh takes a Eldar Craftworld with his power in the form of his minnions. The Keeper epic fight vs the Avatar.

Warp Unleash.

Add to this the Stoies and Feats from the Horus Heresy Novels from Black Library.

1) Showed to be able to keep Horus dying body in the present and creat a physical body for him in the Past at the same time. False Gods

2) Showed a Daemon Servant of Tzeentch curropting the Thousand Sons while goading the Space Wolves thru cvarious points in time. Hawser (a mortal man) Open a door to a room on Prospero during the epic clash of SWs and TSons. He open the door to discover a Daemon in the form of Horus on a Space Ship from 2 years ago. Stepping thru the door Hawser realize he was back in time by 2 years from when he met Horus. This showed on one side of a door being the Present on Prospero and the other Horus Space Ship 2 years in the past. Reality Warping, Space and Time Control from a mere Fraction of Tzeentch. Propsero Burns

3) The Daemon Prince Mkaar opens a Warp Storm over a planet of the Ultra Marines and the Daemon Host in hours strip the world clean of Life. Chapters Due

4) A Daemon Train transport Ultramarine Uriel and his Sarge thru mutiple Time and Space and Alternate Realities were events played different. Dead Sky Black Sun

Seruiously I can go all day of Feats and control over Time, Space, and Reality. They also Control Soul, Physical, and Mental control in the Physical Universe.

Sound like the IG huh? So where are Qs feats that match other than his BS talk?

#11 Posted by ShootingNova (16932 posts) - - Show Bio

Ships: Dunno, Star Trek?

Tech: I suspect 40K

Troops: ?????? 40K

Gods vs Q: Q

Resources: 40K from what I know....

#12 Edited by Strider92 (16425 posts) - - Show Bio

@CadenceV2: This is why i'm keeping out of the God Vs God part lol! I suspect the Gods are stronger but i'm not a Star Trek fan so i'm not going to go there as I don't know much about Q.

Online
#13 Posted by ShootingNova (16932 posts) - - Show Bio

@Strider92 said:

@CadenceV2: This is why i'm keeping out of the God Vs God part lol! I suspect the Gods are stronger but i'm not a Star Trek fan so i'm not going to go there as I don't know much about Q.

From what I know (not a fan either) Q would win. Omnipotents FTW

#14 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

Just pointing out Tzeentch was Omnipotent at one time as well. All four Together are Omnipotent. thing is they only do it very very rarely and when they do its not for long. Each in their realm in the Warp is Omnipotent period. Just only together in the physical universe. Then one ends up back stabbing the others.

#15 Posted by ShootingNova (16932 posts) - - Show Bio

@CadenceV2 said:

Just pointing out Tzeentch was Omnipotent at one time as well. All four Together are Omnipotent. thing is they only do it very very rarely and when they do its not for long. Each in their realm in the Warp is Omnipotent period. Just only together in the physical universe. Then one ends up back stabbing the others.

Yup.

#16 Posted by e3zombie (720 posts) - - Show Bio

Kharn rapes them all with axe <3

#17 Posted by ShootingNova (16932 posts) - - Show Bio

@e3zombie said:

Kharn rapes them all with axe <3

:(

#18 Posted by drgnx (3564 posts) - - Show Bio

@CadenceV2 said:

Every Race, Warp God, Star God, Chaos God, Daemon, and Psyker vs Star Treks Races, Q, ect.

Ships vs Ships.

Tech vs Tech

Troops vs Troops.

Gods vs Q

Resources vs Resources

Go.

Ships vs Ships = Warhammer (Tau, necron, Eldar)

Tech vs Tech = Warhammer (Tau, necron, Eldar) - DAoT EoM could give them a run for their money

Troops vs Troops = Warhammer

Gods vs Q => Hard to call, I think Q's might have the edge here, I don't know much about the WH gods actual feats

Resources vs Resources => Warhammer

#19 Posted by Floopay (8721 posts) - - Show Bio

@CadenceV2: Janeway solos......

And no, I absolutely am not serious.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

#20 Posted by Lady_Liberty (8279 posts) - - Show Bio

Awesome. I'm a big fan of the 40k universe, so I always love to see them pop up in threads.

Ships vs Ships. The peek of Star Trek ships was Species 8472, and the peek of the 40k Universe is Necron ships. Between the two of them the Necron's are probably more powerful, but Species 8472 is held back by their limited number of appearances compared to the Necrons.

If you were to compare all the ships of one universe against all the ships of the other, then 40k would win again, simply because they have so many ships.

If you were to compare the average vs. the average then the 40k universe would win there as well, because the average Star Trek ship is not very large or offensively powerful.

I'm going to say this one goes to the 40k universe.

Tech vs Tech This is another case where it depends on what is compared. Overall I would say the 'peek' technologies of Star Trek is the Borg, and the peek technologies of 40k is the Necrons. On the whole the Necrons are much more powerful.

If you were to compare the average to the average, Star Trek would win, because 40k is weighted down by an Imperium where technology is worshiped as a religion, and barely understood.

I'm actually going to call this a draw, because it depends on what the question means.

Troops vs Troops. Star Trek has some of the absolute worst troops in any universe, in any media, ever. It would be hard to lose to Star Trek troops. I mean it would actually be a challenge to find roughly equal levels of technology who would lose this. Honestly the USMC could probably take out the entire Federation ground force alone.

Some races, such as the Borg would do better because of their force-fields, but considering the 40k universes preferences for hand to hand combat, they would swiftly be wiped out to a drone.

The Klingons are far to aggressive to stay far the heck away from 40k's assault specialists, and would be obliterated as soon as they ran into anyone who was reasonably proficient by the standards of 40k.

Most of the other races fall into the same problem. Even if they can survive in a shootout, they can't survive hand to hand combat, and sheer numbers will eventually wear them down. The Imperium alone may have more members of the Guard then the Federation has people.

And lets not get started with the Tyranids.

This one goes to the 40k universe, hands down.

Gods vs Q Q has the same problem that Dr. Manhattan has. He lacks feats against any kind of powerful superhuman who has a resistance to reality warping. Based on his actual feats, rather then his implied power, I don't think he could defeat all the Chaos gods.

40k universe, because Q lacks relevant feats.

Resources vs Resources I guess the 40k universe simply because it is so large?

So in the end 40k wins, 4-0.

Fun thread!

#21 Posted by jwalser3 (4985 posts) - - Show Bio

@Lady_Liberty said:

Troops vs Troops. Star Trek has some of the absolute worst troops in any universe, in any media, ever. It would be hard to lose to Star Trek troops. I mean it would actually be a challenge to find roughly equal levels of technology who would lose this. Honestly the USMC could probably take out the entire Federation ground force alone.

This made me laugh.

#22 Posted by toby5678910 (340 posts) - - Show Bio

@CadenceV2 said:

Tech I think Star Trek Beats the Imperium, Ork, Nids, and Daemons of Course. Tie with Tau. I belive Necron (who can wink Solar Systems from Existance by erasing a map) and Eldar (Warp Tech) are superior.

Ships would be a HUGE Debate as Ships in 40K could out number and Firepower compared to Numbers for Star Trek.

As seen in this to scale Ship Size a 40k Cruiser is VASTLY Larger and more armed and shileded than a Star Destoyer. SDs are lager than federation Ships. The Mere Esort and Destroyers (which are as numerous as Space Fighters) are same size of a Star Trek Federation Ship.

Troops Ill stay out of.

Gods vs Q. Another Debate as the Star Gods, Warp Gods, and Chaos Gods have shwon feats that surpass anything I seen q Done in the shows.

Resources Ill stay out of as I honeslty dont know how many Populated worlds are in Star Trek.

Why would you compare a Cruiser class ship with a Destroyer Class ship...

Look at the Warhammer 40k Destroyer - its tiny...

#23 Posted by jwalser3 (4985 posts) - - Show Bio

He is right the 40k ships are tiny. And isn't that comparing to Star wars ships?

#24 Posted by Lady_Liberty (8279 posts) - - Show Bio

@toby5678910: @jwalser3: Those are Star War's ships, which are several orders of magnitude larger and vastly more powerful then Star Trek ships.

An average troop carrier in Star Wars could probably beat any Enterprise.

#25 Posted by jwalser3 (4985 posts) - - Show Bio

@Lady_Liberty:Okay, I just didn't understand what comparing Star wars ships had to do with Star trek ships.

#26 Posted by Lady_Liberty (8279 posts) - - Show Bio

@jwalser3: Yeah, I'm not really sure either.

It is a pretty neat pic though.

#27 Posted by ShootingNova (16932 posts) - - Show Bio

@Lady_Liberty said:

@toby5678910: @jwalser3: Those are Star War's ships, which are several orders of magnitude larger and vastly more powerful then Star Trek ships.

An average troop carrier in Star Wars could probably beat any Enterprise.

Really?

#28 Posted by jwalser3 (4985 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova:Now lets not turn this into a ST vs SW forum. Lol

#29 Posted by ShootingNova (16932 posts) - - Show Bio

@jwalser3 said:

@ShootingNova:Now lets not turn this into a ST vs SW forum. Lol

Yeah, we can make a new one for that.

#30 Posted by jwalser3 (4985 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova:Hahah.

But I do think star trek ships could destroy the 40k ships.

#31 Posted by Lady_Liberty (8279 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova said:

@jwalser3 said:

Yeah, we can make a new one for that.

@ShootingNova:Now lets not turn this into a ST vs SW forum. Lol

If someone makes the battle I'll post some stats and stuff.

#32 Posted by Manchine (4169 posts) - - Show Bio

Ships vs Ships. Warhammer 40k wins this

Tech vs Tech. Star Trek wins this

Troops vs Troops. Warhammer 40k

Gods vs Q. Q and his Quantium wins (A misfire from one of there hand weapons can cause a star to supernova and they are not effected by time).

Resources vs Resources Warhammer wins

#33 Posted by ShootingNova (16932 posts) - - Show Bio

@jwalser3 said:

@ShootingNova:Hahah.

But I do think star trek ships could destroy the 40k ships.

Yeah.

@Lady_Liberty said:

@ShootingNova said:

@jwalser3 said:

Yeah, we can make a new one for that.

@ShootingNova:Now lets not turn this into a ST vs SW forum. Lol

If someone makes the battle I'll post some stats and stuff.

For ST?

#34 Posted by Lady_Liberty (8279 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova: I don't want to derail this thread but Star Wars Episode II Incredible Cross-Sections and Star Trek Next Generation Technical Manual both post stats on ships in real world units.

Star Wars, Acclamator troop transport has 24 light guns with 6 megatons of energy per shot, and 12 turrents with 200 gigatons per shot.

Then it has shields with a heat dissipation of 70 trillion gigawaats.

Star Trek: Enterprise-D has 200 emitters in the main phaser array, 2 full-sized saucer arrays and 3 smaller roughly half-size arrays on the stardrive section. Each emmiter has roughly 5.1 megawatt's of power, so total that should be about 3.6 gigawatts. Photon Torpedoes have roughly 64 megatons of yield.

Seven shield generators with 473 gigawatts of heat dissipation per generator, so around 3,311 gigawatts of heat dissipation total.

And that's a no-name troop carrier against a Star Trek captial ship. The Enterprise-D is out-scaled by an several orders of magnitude, and wouldn't even survive the first salvo. It isn't even a fight.

#35 Posted by ShootingNova (16932 posts) - - Show Bio

@Lady_Liberty said:

@ShootingNova: I don't want to derail this thread but Star Wars Episode II Incredible Cross-Sections and Star Trek Next Generation Technical Manual both post stats on ships in real world units.

Star Wars, Acclamator troop transport has 24 light guns with 6 megatons of energy per shot, and 12 turrents with 200 gigatons per shot.

Then it has shields with a heat dissipation of 70 trillion gigawaats.

Star Trek: Enterprise-D has 200 emitters in the main phaser array, 2 full-sized saucer arrays and 3 smaller roughly half-size arrays on the stardrive section. Each emmiter has roughly 5.1 megawatt's of power, so total that should be about 3.6 gigawatts. Photon Torpedoes have roughly 64 megatons of yield.

Seven shield generators with 473 gigawatts of heat dissipation per generator, so around 3,311 gigawatts of heat dissipation total.

And that's a no-name troop carrier against a Star Trek captial ship. The Enterprise-D is out-scaled by an several orders of magnitude, and wouldn't even survive the first salvo. It isn't even a fight.

Talk about the Executor. I don't know so much about ST though, so you'll have to educate me a bit.

#36 Posted by Magethor (1054 posts) - - Show Bio

@Lady_Liberty said:

@ShootingNova: I don't want to derail this thread but Star Wars Episode II Incredible Cross-Sections and Star Trek Next Generation Technical Manual both post stats on ships in real world units.

Star Wars, Acclamator troop transport has 24 light guns with 6 megatons of energy per shot, and 12 turrents with 200 gigatons per shot.

Then it has shields with a heat dissipation of 70 trillion gigawaats.

Star Trek: Enterprise-D has 200 emitters in the main phaser array, 2 full-sized saucer arrays and 3 smaller roughly half-size arrays on the stardrive section. Each emmiter has roughly 5.1 megawatt's of power, so total that should be about 3.6 gigawatts. Photon Torpedoes have roughly 64 megatons of yield.

Seven shield generators with 473 gigawatts of heat dissipation per generator, so around 3,311 gigawatts of heat dissipation total.

And that's a no-name troop carrier against a Star Trek captial ship. The Enterprise-D is out-scaled by an several orders of magnitude, and wouldn't even survive the first salvo. It isn't even a fight.

I think you're kind of missing the point of the weapon architecture of the Star Trek ships. Star Fleet can make their ships 100 Trillion gigawaats if they wanted to, but decided not to, because it's insufficient. Phaser arrays don't have to shoot 200 gigatons simply because phasers are not used for concussive force like most of Star Wars weapons are all about. To understand this, you must first understand what a phaser is and what its purpose is used for. A Phaser, fires frequency waves that phases through matter and creates a chain reaction once it makes contact with that matter. Much more effective and power efficient than physical concussive force.

70 trillion gigawatt shield vs 3.6 gigawatt phasers

Again, the phasers win because its purpose is not to project concussive force neither generate heat. Analogy? You can hide behind a 5 foot thick iron wall, but that wall is not going to protect you from X-Ray frequency waves. That's the one critical thing that Star Wars over looked. They tried packing their star ships and weaponry with so much explosive power and totally forgotten about frequency waves. I guess at the moment is was above their heads, but this is proof that Star Trek ships are more advanced. They attack matter through a sub-atomic method.....

#37 Posted by Magethor (1054 posts) - - Show Bio

@Lady_Liberty: 473 gigawatt shield vs 200 gigaton laser cannon

Again, Star Trek uses over-all better technology that effects frequency. Match the frequency rate of the concussive force of a 200 gigawatt plasma beam, and the energy would just negate itself as soon it makes contact of the ST shields. Every matter and energy has a frequency. That's just how reality works. Your body and my body has its own frequency. If you disrupt that frequency, we can vanish hence why phasers can evaporate people without heat. Don't think for a minute that heat causes people to evaporate when fired by a phaser set to evaporate. They evaporate because the frequency of the phaser is counter match the frequency of the person so that persons molecules break up into loose atoms. What holds a molecule together? Electrons do right? What effects electron? Frequency....

#38 Posted by Strider92 (16425 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova said:

@jwalser3 said:

@ShootingNova:Hahah.

But I do think star trek ships could destroy the 40k ships.

Yeah.

It would depend on the race they were fighting. I can see them being able to destroy Imperium vessels but as soon as you cross-over to the more advanced races (namely Eldar, Necron and Tau) I don't think they would stand much of a chance due to their vastly superior tech.

Online
#39 Posted by Baldy (5021 posts) - - Show Bio

@Magethor said:

@Lady_Liberty said:

@ShootingNova: I don't want to derail this thread but Star Wars Episode II Incredible Cross-Sections and Star Trek Next Generation Technical Manual both post stats on ships in real world units.

Star Wars, Acclamator troop transport has 24 light guns with 6 megatons of energy per shot, and 12 turrents with 200 gigatons per shot.

Then it has shields with a heat dissipation of 70 trillion gigawaats.

Star Trek: Enterprise-D has 200 emitters in the main phaser array, 2 full-sized saucer arrays and 3 smaller roughly half-size arrays on the stardrive section. Each emmiter has roughly 5.1 megawatt's of power, so total that should be about 3.6 gigawatts. Photon Torpedoes have roughly 64 megatons of yield.

Seven shield generators with 473 gigawatts of heat dissipation per generator, so around 3,311 gigawatts of heat dissipation total.

And that's a no-name troop carrier against a Star Trek captial ship. The Enterprise-D is out-scaled by an several orders of magnitude, and wouldn't even survive the first salvo. It isn't even a fight.

I think you're kind of missing the point of the weapon architecture of the Star Trek ships. Star Fleet can make their ships 100 Trillion gigawaats if they wanted to, but decided not to, because it's insufficient. Phaser arrays don't have to shoot 200 gigatons simply because phasers are not used for concussive force like most of Star Wars weapons are all about. To understand this, you must first understand what a phaser is and what its purpose is used for. A Phaser, fires frequency waves that phases through matter and creates a chain reaction once it makes contact with that matter. Much more effective and power efficient than physical concussive force.

70 trillion gigawatt shield vs 3.6 gigawatt phasers

Again, the phasers win because its purpose is not to project concussive force neither generate heat. Analogy? You can hide behind a 5 foot thick iron wall, but that wall is not going to protect you from X-Ray frequency waves. That's the one critical thing that Star Wars over looked. They tried packing their star ships and weaponry with so much explosive power and totally forgotten about frequency waves. I guess at the moment is was above their heads, but this is proof that Star Trek ships are more advanced. They attack matter through a sub-atomic method.....

You're wrong.

@Magethor said:

@Lady_Liberty: 473 gigawatt shield vs 200 gigaton laser cannon

Again, Star Trek uses over-all better technology that effects frequency. Match the frequency rate of the concussive force of a 200 gigawatt plasma beam, and the energy would just negate itself as soon it makes contact of the ST shields. Every matter and energy has a frequency. That's just how reality works. Your body and my body has its own frequency. If you disrupt that frequency, we can vanish hence why phasers can evaporate people without heat. Don't think for a minute that heat causes people to evaporate when fired by a phaser set to evaporate. They evaporate because the frequency of the phaser is counter match the frequency of the person so that persons molecules break up into loose atoms. What holds a molecule together? Electrons do right? What effects electron? Frequency....

I assume by "Every matter and energy has a frequency" you are referring to the De Broglie wavelength. If you are then your'e talking absolute nonsense as large objects have a wavelength that isn't even measurable.

#40 Posted by ShootingNova (16932 posts) - - Show Bio

@Strider92 said:

@ShootingNova said:

@jwalser3 said:

@ShootingNova:Hahah.

But I do think star trek ships could destroy the 40k ships.

Yeah.

It would depend on the race they were fighting. I can see them being able to destroy Imperium vessels but as soon as you cross-over to the more advanced races (namely Eldar, Necron and Tau) I don't think they would stand much of a chance due to their vastly superior tech.

If you say so.

#41 Posted by AtPhantom (14521 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm pretty sure Imperium vessels have firepower couple orders of magnitude beyond anything Federation ships can muster.

#42 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@jwalser3: @toby5678910: @Lady_Liberty:

The (Numerous) Destroyers are larger than (the Federation, Klingons, Romalns, ect) the Largest Trek Ships. Battle Cruisers and Battle Ships due to size have Planet Busting Shileds and Weaponary and more weapons than the Tiny Trek Ships. Thats my point.

#43 Posted by Lady_Liberty (8279 posts) - - Show Bio

@Magethor said:

@Lady_Liberty said:

@ShootingNova: I don't want to derail this thread but Star Wars Episode II Incredible Cross-Sections and Star Trek Next Generation Technical Manual both post stats on ships in real world units.

Star Wars, Acclamator troop transport has 24 light guns with 6 megatons of energy per shot, and 12 turrents with 200 gigatons per shot.

Then it has shields with a heat dissipation of 70 trillion gigawaats.

Star Trek: Enterprise-D has 200 emitters in the main phaser array, 2 full-sized saucer arrays and 3 smaller roughly half-size arrays on the stardrive section. Each emmiter has roughly 5.1 megawatt's of power, so total that should be about 3.6 gigawatts. Photon Torpedoes have roughly 64 megatons of yield.

Seven shield generators with 473 gigawatts of heat dissipation per generator, so around 3,311 gigawatts of heat dissipation total.

And that's a no-name troop carrier against a Star Trek captial ship. The Enterprise-D is out-scaled by an several orders of magnitude, and wouldn't even survive the first salvo. It isn't even a fight.

I think you're kind of missing the point of the weapon architecture of the Star Trek ships. Star Fleet can make their ships 100 Trillion gigawaats if they wanted to, but decided not to, because it's insufficient. Phaser arrays don't have to shoot 200 gigatons simply because phasers are not used for concussive force like most of Star Wars weapons are all about.

Concussive force like most Star Wars weapons? What? They burn holes in things..

To understand this, you must first understand what a phaser is and what its purpose is used for. A Phaser, fires frequency waves that phases through matter and creates a chain reaction once it makes contact with that matter. Much more effective and power efficient than physical concussive force.

Minor gains in effiancy are pointless agiast this degree of power differeance.

70 trillion gigawatt shield vs 3.6 gigawatt phasers

Again, the phasers win because its purpose is not to project concussive force neither generate heat. Analogy? You can hide behind a 5 foot thick iron wall, but that wall is not going to protect you from X-Ray frequency waves. That's the one critical thing that Star Wars over looked. They tried packing their star ships and weaponry with so much explosive power and totally forgotten about frequency waves. I guess at the moment is was above their heads, but this is proof that Star Trek ships are more advanced. They attack matter through a sub-atomic method.....

Frequency waves? And.. yes a five foot thick iron wall will protect you pretty well from X-Ray waves, by the way. I'm not sure what your point is here, to be honest.

@Magethor said:

@Lady_Liberty: 473 gigawatt shield vs 200 gigaton laser cannon

Again, Star Trek uses over-all better technology that effects frequency. Match the frequency rate of the concussive force of a 200 gigawatt plasma beam, and the energy would just negate itself as soon it makes contact of the ST shields.

Simply impossible. They -cannot- make that heat go away.

Every matter and energy has a frequency. That's just how reality works. Your body and my body has its own frequency. If you disrupt that frequency, we can vanish hence why phasers can evaporate people without heat.

There is no reaction in the universe possible that does not create entropy (heat). It cannot happen.

Don't think for a minute that heat causes people to evaporate when fired by a phaser set to evaporate. They evaporate because the frequency of the phaser is counter match the frequency of the person so that persons molecules break up into loose atoms. What holds a molecule together? Electrons do right? What effects electron? Frequency....

What does this have to do with the fact Star Trek ships do not have a fraction of the power needed to fight against Star War's ships?

The technology doesn't matter. There is a very simple reason shields are measured in ability to disperse heat.

Once you create heat, it cannot be uncreated. You cannot turn back entropy. In space there is nowhere to send that heat, you have to disperse it so it doesn't melt though your hull, and then you have to put it somewhere. You need a heatsink.

These are fundamental laws that you cannot get around, period.

#44 Posted by DedmanWalkin (2598 posts) - - Show Bio

You guys need to remember that the Federation comprises only a part of the Star Trek universe so its ships need not be all that we focus on here.

V'Ger's, the Whale Probe's, Voth, the Dyson Sphere, and Borg Cubes are all vastly superior to Federation vessels in both size and power and yet have received veritably no mention. It is like looking at our world and then deciding that since the nation of Sri Lanka has crappy ships, all of our ships are crappy.

Also, Star Trek has a whole class of timeships that WH40k has no answer for, for the most part. For example, the Krenim Imperium Timeship easily eclipses everything but maybe Necron ships as it is completely impervious to attack and can one shot pretty much any ship and even erase entire populations of worlds. Federation Timeships also easily eclipse everything but maybe Necron ships as they can move through time and transport through time.

Star Trek Tech is easily superior since WH40k has no answer for time travel.

Troops are tactically useless with space travel and planet destroyers.

The Q beat WH40k gods without even blinking. They have the power to depower an omnipotent being which should be impossible. They will simply depower all of the WH40K gods and be done with it.

Resources really can't be compared since the universes are composed of different elements and as such what is valued by both universes is

#45 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

wWow alot of things wrong here.

You guys need to remember that the Federation comprises only a part of the Star Trek universe so its ships need not be all that we focus on here.

V'Ger's, the Whale Probe's, Voth, the Dyson Sphere, and Borg Cubes are all vastly superior to Federation vessels in both size and power and yet have received veritably no mention. It is like looking at our world and then deciding that since the nation of Sri Lanka has crappy ships, all of our ships are crappy.

Yet 40k has Eldar Crafet Worlds, Ork Roks, Ork Fleets, Hive Ships, Hive Fleets, Necron Fleets, the World Engine (Necron Ship the size of our Planet), Chaos Fleets, Tau Fleets, Black Stone Fotresses (Solar System Destroyers), Abbaddon Planet Killer (Baddest Ship ever) and MORE!!!

Also, Star Trek has a whole class of timeships that WH40k has no answer for, for the most part. For example, the Krenim Imperium Timeship easily eclipses everything but maybe Necron ships as it is completely impervious to attack and can one shot pretty much any ship and even erase entire populations of worlds. Federation Timeships also easily eclipse everything but maybe Necron ships as they can move through time and transport through time.

I never seen a Time Ship in Start Trek Enterpise, Star Trek, Deep Space Nine, Generations, or Voyager. What crap crazy offshoot cannon are you pulling? Also Warhammer also has Time Devices in the Dark Age of Technology and the Chaos Fleets can and have Time Travel via Warp with their Gods Blessing.

Star Trek Tech is easily superior since WH40k has no answer for time travel.

Even if these Time Ships exist (Which I never seen) then 40k Chaos Fleets can counter that via Gods.

Troops are tactically useless with space travel and planet destroyers.

Ummm yeah right. Space Marines excell at Boarding Actions and tacking over ships. Its what they do. Also Daemons can board ships if any are in a Warp Storm with no Geller Field. Eldar can Battle on Ships via Webway Portals. So obviously this staement is irrelevant....

The Q beat WH40k gods without even blinking. They have the power to depower an omnipotent being which should be impossible. They will simply depower all of the WH40K gods and be done with it.

I still have not seen a Single feat were they can where I put up countless Feats they did. All I hear Q wins Q wins with no Proof of his Feats that he can. Prove it!

Resources really can't be compared since the universes are composed of different elements and as such what is valued by both universes is

Yeah they can Compare. Which has more Populations, Agri Worlds, Forgeries, Star Ports, ect....

#46 Posted by DedmanWalkin (2598 posts) - - Show Bio

The Dyson Sphere is roughly the size of a small solar system as it featured a working sun. The Whale Probe was half as long as the Death Star 2 and the Whale Probe was about two thirds as long as that. Both of those ships were just probes not full on space ships, I shudder to think how large their ships of the line are. The Voth City ship is roughly the size of the Imperium Retribution-class Battleship. The Voth ship had a phase cloak which allows them to move right through matter and remain completely invisible to scanners. They had scanners that grant them 90 lightyears of range and could transport entire ships across 90 lightyears regardless of shields. Borg Cubes are easily the size of most Imperium ships and the Borg Unicomplex is 600km otherwise known as 3.75 Death Stars. By the way, they have multiple unicomplexes.

The Krenim Imperium Timeship was in a two part episode of Voyager known as Year of Hell. The Wells-class Federation Timeship Relativity featured prominently in the episode Relativity. Maybe watch more Star Trek before commenting? WH40K ships would require a god's aid to even touch them. When you require what is essentially magic to even match their tech, you have lost the argument as magic =/= technology. Just ask Batman or Reed Richards.

Troops are almost irrelevant now as in the real world. Our air force and navy can deal more damage than our troops ever could. Troops are predominantly used for holding ground and scouting. With sensors that can cover lightyears and transporters removing the need to hold ground, there is literally no need to use troops in most cases. The fact that WH40K still use troops is actually quite sad as they are still using our tactics way into the future.

Q warps reality for fun. He created an entire world complete with realistic humans with which he played out Robin Hood. He allowed Picard to time Travel twice. He threw the Enterprise half a galaxy away instantly. He created entire species and worlds out of thin air. He turned his kid into a single celled organism and back again. You posted a lot of pages, could you summarize them?

Again, you are literally comparing apples to oranges. For instance, Replicators invalidate the need for entire worlds devoted to agriculture. There is no way to even quantify the number of resources in the Star Trek Universe because they only cover a small percentage of it in the show/movies. We never see the races that built the Whale Probe, V'Ger, or the Dyson Sphere and their ship yards must be ridiculous in size. When I said that this can't be compared, I wasn't kidding. There is no real answer that can be obtained here for we have incomplete information.

#47 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@DedmanWalkin said:

The Dyson Sphere is roughly the size of a small solar system as it featured a working sun. The Whale Probe was half as long as the Death Star 2 and the Whale Probe was about two thirds as long as that. Both of those ships were just probes not full on space ships, I shudder to think how large their ships of the line are. The Voth City ship is roughly the size of the Imperium Retribution-class Battleship. The Voth ship had a phase cloak which allows them to move right through matter and remain completely invisible to scanners. They had scanners that grant them 90 lightyears of range and could transport entire ships across 90 lightyears regardless of shields. Borg Cubes are easily the size of most Imperium ships and the Borg Unicomplex is 600km otherwise known as 3.75 Death Stars. By the way, they have multiple unicomplexes.

Unicomlexes pale in compareson to World Engins and Solar Systen Destroing Black Stone Fortresses. There are also many Space Hulks that rival the size if not bigger than Super Star Destroyers.

The Krenim Imperium Timeship was in a two part episode of Voyager known as Year of Hell. The Wells-class Federation Timeship Relativity featured prominently in the episode Relativity. Maybe watch more Star Trek before commenting? WH40K ships would require a god's aid to even touch them. When you require what is essentially magic to even match their tech, you have lost the argument as magic =/= technology. Just ask Batman or Reed Richards.

Ask Doom who beats Tony Stark with a Combination of Magic and Tech. Now thats Tech. Warp Tech is more advance in results then any Sicence tech on Star Trek. Its not magic when there is fundemantal understandings like Daemon Engines and Warp Tech of the Eldar. Also Tech for the Necrons allow them erase any area of Space from a Star Map at one time. Beat that ........

Troops are almost irrelevant now as in the real world. Our air force and navy can deal more damage than our troops ever could. Troops are predominantly used for holding ground and scouting. With sensors that can cover lightyears and transporters removing the need to hold ground, there is literally no need to use troops in most cases. The fact that WH40K still use troops is actually quite sad as they are still using our tactics way into the future.

Wow you did not go there LOL. We rely more on our troops than ever. Can a jet retrieve a Object? Can a Ship defeat a Seal Team that takes it over? Your seriously so off here lol.

Q warps reality for fun. He created an entire world complete with realistic humans with which he played out Robin Hood. He allowed Picard to time Travel twice. He threw the Enterprise half a galaxy away instantly. He created entire species and worlds out of thin air. He turned his kid into a single celled organism and back again. You posted a lot of pages, could you summarize them?

Everything you said Chaos Gods have done. They exist in the past as well as the Present at the same time. They Time Travel as well. They Warpped 20% of the Galaxy into their playground (Eye of Terror) and can open Warpstorms anywhere else. They can create Life and erase it as they done numerous occassion in the pages I posted. A deamon with a fraction of their power has allowed a Man name Hawser to open a door on Prospero in the present that lead to 2 years in the past and half a Galaxy away. They allowed Horus to live Simaltaniulsy in the Present on the Moon of Davin while being in Physical body in the past 200 years on Terra at the same time.... Also many examples you threw out there suggest Q cant see the futur. Tzeentch can and does thanks to Fateweaver, another fraction of Tzeentch himself.

Again, you are literally comparing apples to oranges. For instance, Replicators invalidate the need for entire worlds devoted to agriculture. There is no way to even quantify the number of resources in the Star Trek Universe because they only cover a small percentage of it in the show/movies. We never see the races that built the Whale Probe, V'Ger, or the Dyson Sphere and their ship yards must be ridiculous in size. When I said that this can't be compared, I wasn't kidding. There is no real answer that can be obtained here for we have incomplete information.

Thats a better explanation.

#48 Posted by timis (1 posts) - - Show Bio

How can you people say that star trek ships can beat the wh40k ships just the imperium alone would destroy the whole star trek vers ships on its own.

http://www.google.gr/imgres?imgurl=http://foxhugh.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/the-imperium-vs-warhammer-40k.jpg&imgrefurl=http://foxhugh.wordpress.com/fiction/star-trek-vs-warhammer-40k/&h=747&w=1093&sz=114&tbnid=v2YzR8fs2VqTlM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=132&zoom=1&usg=__HfzjhBqY_1TjogasruA-4drhO5o=&docid=Dof9xJHfDrhtJM&sa=X&ei=g9FRULTUGIG10QWd3oDQCA&ved=0CEUQ9QEwBA&dur=207

#49 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@Baldy said:

@Magethor said:

@Lady_Liberty said:

@ShootingNova: I don't want to derail this thread but Star Wars Episode II Incredible Cross-Sections and Star Trek Next Generation Technical Manual both post stats on ships in real world units.

Star Wars, Acclamator troop transport has 24 light guns with 6 megatons of energy per shot, and 12 turrents with 200 gigatons per shot.

Then it has shields with a heat dissipation of 70 trillion gigawaats.

Star Trek: Enterprise-D has 200 emitters in the main phaser array, 2 full-sized saucer arrays and 3 smaller roughly half-size arrays on the stardrive section. Each emmiter has roughly 5.1 megawatt's of power, so total that should be about 3.6 gigawatts. Photon Torpedoes have roughly 64 megatons of yield.

Seven shield generators with 473 gigawatts of heat dissipation per generator, so around 3,311 gigawatts of heat dissipation total.

And that's a no-name troop carrier against a Star Trek captial ship. The Enterprise-D is out-scaled by an several orders of magnitude, and wouldn't even survive the first salvo. It isn't even a fight.

I think you're kind of missing the point of the weapon architecture of the Star Trek ships. Star Fleet can make their ships 100 Trillion gigawaats if they wanted to, but decided not to, because it's insufficient. Phaser arrays don't have to shoot 200 gigatons simply because phasers are not used for concussive force like most of Star Wars weapons are all about. To understand this, you must first understand what a phaser is and what its purpose is used for. A Phaser, fires frequency waves that phases through matter and creates a chain reaction once it makes contact with that matter. Much more effective and power efficient than physical concussive force.

70 trillion gigawatt shield vs 3.6 gigawatt phasers

Again, the phasers win because its purpose is not to project concussive force neither generate heat. Analogy? You can hide behind a 5 foot thick iron wall, but that wall is not going to protect you from X-Ray frequency waves. That's the one critical thing that Star Wars over looked. They tried packing their star ships and weaponry with so much explosive power and totally forgotten about frequency waves. I guess at the moment is was above their heads, but this is proof that Star Trek ships are more advanced. They attack matter through a sub-atomic method.....

You're wrong.

@Magethor said:

@Lady_Liberty: 473 gigawatt shield vs 200 gigaton laser cannon

Again, Star Trek uses over-all better technology that effects frequency. Match the frequency rate of the concussive force of a 200 gigawatt plasma beam, and the energy would just negate itself as soon it makes contact of the ST shields. Every matter and energy has a frequency. That's just how reality works. Your body and my body has its own frequency. If you disrupt that frequency, we can vanish hence why phasers can evaporate people without heat. Don't think for a minute that heat causes people to evaporate when fired by a phaser set to evaporate. They evaporate because the frequency of the phaser is counter match the frequency of the person so that persons molecules break up into loose atoms. What holds a molecule together? Electrons do right? What effects electron? Frequency....

I assume by "Every matter and energy has a frequency" you are referring to the De Broglie wavelength. If you are then your'e talking absolute nonsense as large objects have a wavelength that isn't even measurable.

Someone got served.

#50 Posted by Kinasin_ (1200 posts) - - Show Bio

40K all rounds. Q never stood a chance.