#1 Edited by Jokergeist (4935 posts) - - Show Bio

Round 2

A few minor changes have been made to the rules.

Click here for the Tournament Thread

You will NOT post spam, questions, accusations, etc. etc. in this thread.

You have received a private message that contains everyone in this debate, in addition to Floopay and myself. If you have questions, accusations, and random spam you want to post, put it in the PM. This thread will not be clogged.

Someone asks you a question who isn't in the tournament, or makes a comment your direction? Reply by posting on that user's Wall. You may post as much spam and etc. after this thread is open for votes, however, once the thread is open to votes you CANNOT debate for your team in any way, shape, or form. Minor clarifications are allowed, but no challenging every vote against your team, no showing off feats and stuff you forgot to post for your team earlier. Once it's open for voting, the debate is done.

Posting Orders and Limits

Opening Post: You're reading it.

Second Post: I will make the second post. I have sent you another PM, in which you will describe your team make-up in the match. Be sure to include:

  • Whether or not you bring your Wildcard
  • Scout's Prep
  • Battlefield starting positions

In this PM, you will disclose this information for me to record in Post #2. It cannot be altered once I have made the post.

Nobody's information will be posted until both teams have made their decisions; Neither of you has any clue of how the other will be using prep, and there will be no way someone can alter their opening prep over and over again based on what they think would have been the best way to prep to guarantee victory. Plain and simple, you're stuck with the tactics you decided.

Posting Orders:

Remember, there are 2 people in each team. I will refer to teams as Team 1, and Team 2 for this portion. As well as Member 1A, 1B, 2A, and 2B. Corresponding of course with their team.

I have chosen post orders, which is disclosed in Post #2 below.

  1. First Post: Team 1, Member 1A
  2. Second Post: Team 2, Member 2A
  3. Third Post: Team 1, Member 1B
  4. Fourth Post: Team 2, Member 2B
  5. Fifth Post: Team 1, Member 1A
  6. Sixth Post: Team 2, Member 2A
  7. Summary Post: Team 2, Member 2B
  8. Summary Post: Team 1, Member 1B

Make your posts count, because this is all you get. 2 posts from each team member, unless substitutions are made. Please refrain from posting cluttering irrelevancies.

*Each Member will have 5 days maximum to submit his post. If the deadline is reached without posting, you'll be skipped and the next person follows.

Honorable Thieves - Esquire & DireDrill

  • Champion: Omi
  • Champion: Gorgon
  • The Leader: Cable
  • The Meatshield: Mr. Negative
  • The Scout: T-Girl
  • Minions: 10 Skrulls, 6 Bat Shadowkahn, 2 Sweet Bots

VS

Stupid Drummers - SuperDrummer & Stupid_People

  • Champion: The Protagonist (SR4)
  • Champion: Oga Tatsumi (Beelzebub)
  • The Leader: Master Chief
  • The Meatshield: Killer Croc
  • The Scout: Pidgeot
  • Minions: 16 Rangers (Fallout), and 2 Terrismen

*The Leader does not fight in this round. His only job is to provide the strategy before the battle.

Location: Operation Riverside

This land houses an electric power substation at its center, with a small river flowing along its axis. The landscape and layout of the landmarks in Operation Riverside caters mainly towards infantry action, where the Scout must be strategic to maintain low-profile recon.

Battlefield Starting-Positions

Blue Zone = Team 1 territory, Red Zone = Team 2 territory

  • Team 1 can start at E, or anywhere within the Blue Zone.
  • Team 2 can start at A, or anywhere within the Red Zone.

*None of the vehicles listed above can be used.

PointDescription________________________

A

The Woods is a forested area covered with rocks and is surrounded by a small shack.

B

The Gas Station is positioned along the riverbank just south of the Warehouse.

C

The Warehouse is a three story building, surrounded by fields and a small power generator.

D

The Power Station is located south of the Warehouse, in close proximity to the RU Deployment and is scattered with crates.

E

The Outpost is located in very close proximity to the RU Deployment and is surrounded by a few crates and an outdoor garage.

Battle Conditions

Prior to the battle, both teams have the following:

  • 5 days of prep for the Scout.
  • 1 hour of prep for the Leader to strategize before the battle.
  • Full knowledge of teammates.
  • No knowledge of the enemy team.
  • In-Character
  • Fight to the death.

Rules for Voting

Reasons MUST be given. Votes will not count if no reasoning is provided.

  • Team 1 may call in six voters.
  • Team 2 may call in six voters.
  • The only other votes that will count are from the other participants of this tournament, as well as notable outsiders. I will call in 2 random participants from this tournament who will be required to cast a vote on the debate.

Any other tournament participants are allowed to vote.

Outside Viewers are allowed to vote, but must have a post count of 1000+

#2 Edited by Jokergeist (4935 posts) - - Show Bio

✓ "Honorable Thieves" Team Prep

1) Team Composition

  • Champion - Omi
  • Champion - Gorgon
  • Leader - Cable
  • Meatshield - Mr. Negative
  • Scout - T-Girl
  • Minion -10 Skrulls
  • Minion - 6 Bat Shadowkahn
  • Tank - 2 Sweet Bots

2) Team Deployment

South near E: Everyone except for the Skrulls.

North near E: The Skrulls disguised as woodland creatures.

3) Preparation

Scout

T-Girl splits herself in 2 using the Tiger Talisman.

Good T-Girl uses the Sheep Talisman to waltz straight into the enemy team's base and watch them and see what information they divulge while waiting. She should be able to determine names and basic abilities. Sheep Talisman makes her invisible and intangible and since you have to kill her lifeless body to kill her, she'll be completely safe throughout prep.

Evil T-Girl will move into the neutral zone completely invisible thanks to the Snake Talisman. Using the Rabbit and Rooster Talisman, Evil T-Girl will be hunting the enemy scout.

Should Pidgeot enter the neutral zone, he will be killed fairly quickly. Pidgeot can't detect Evil T-Girl so he will be unaware he is being followed until he gets grabbed with TK and hit with the Dragon and Pig Talismans. Pidgeot would need to show that he can detect Evil T-Girl, resist less than 1 ton of TK, and not be horribly burned by the combined talisman use. Should they be unable to do so, Pidgeot will be dead should he enter the neutral zone.

Regardless of whether or not Pidgeot dies, she'll use any time not used in hunting to get a good view of the map.

Leader

Cable will start by downloading all of the knowledge from the T-Girls. He'll then download several bits of relevant data into the team. Evil T-Girl and Omi both get a crash course in the use of TK from Cable who is highly skilled in its use. He also downloads how to hack satellites into Good T-Girl.

Cable then has Mr. Negative use his corruption touch to corrupt everyone on the team and ensure team cohesiveness and remove morals. In addition, he'll boost the healing factors of those that can be improved.

Cable then has some equipment switching take place. Evil T-Girl climbs into the cab of one of the Sweet Bot and uses the Rat Talisman to turn it into Sweet Tooth. Sweet Tooth then gets the Shroud of Shadows and the Pig Talisman. Mr. Negative will get the Jetboostsu. Omi will get into the cab of the other Sweet Bot. Gorgon gets the Snake Talisman and Longi Kite.

He then has the Skrulls shapeshift into woodland creatures.They will be tasked with working their way around the north to flank the enemy team. Thanks to Skrull Infiltration skills, they are virtually indistinguishable from the real thing so detecting them will be impossible.

Cable lastly sets up a telepathic link and puts the group into these teams:

Flanking Team

  • Minions 1: 10 Skrulls - Energy Rifles (Disguised as Forest Critters)

Aerial Attack Team 1

  • The Meatshield: Mr. Negative - Blade, Jetbootsu
  • Minions 2: 3 Bat Shadowkahn - Unarmed

Aerial Attack Team 2

  • Champion: Gorgon - Godkiller, Longi Kite, Snake Talisman
  • Minions 2: 3 Bat Shadowkahn - Unarmed

Ground Attack Team

  • The Scout: Evil T-Girl - Horse, Rabbit, Rooster, Dragon, and Half of Tiger Talisman
  • Tank: Sweet Tooth Gang Member - Sweet Bot, Rat and Pig Talisman, Shroud of Shadows (Currently emulating Sweet Tooth)

Decoy Team

  • Champion: Omi - Orb of Tornami, Two Ton Tunic, Mantis Flip Coin, Mikado Arms, Gills of Himachi, Helmet of Jong, Kaijin Charm, Shimo Staff, Ruby of Ramses, and the Emperor Scorpion
  • Tank: Sweet Tooth Gang Member - Sweet Bot, Shadow Slicer

Scout Team

  • The Scout: Good T-Girl - Sheep, and Half of Tiger Talismans (Remaining in Base)

✓ "Stupid Drummers" Team Prep

Team: We will be using 16 Rangers from fallout, and 2 Terrismen

Scout prep: Pretty simple, he flies over, looks at them, and continues to look at them. With his incredible sight and speed, he will stay out of your range while moving fast enough to stay practically invisible to anyone without enhanced senses. Also, he will have little to no trouble blitzing Jade should she leave her safe zone. However, he won't kill her, but will most certainly capture her. Our team will than have a LOT of fun interrogating her... Oga, the demon of Saint Ishiyama, The Protagonist, a ruthless gang leader, and Killer Croc, a giant lizard that gives children nightmares. She will be spilling her secrets in a matter of minutes.

Master chief is a strategic and military genius... and he will most likely see that no one else is here. So he will set them up at D, seeing as that will most likely be best suited for our team. The Terrismen will than use the knowledge from their copperminds and create an electric fence for our base. Our 16 snipers will than proceed to pick off every and anyone who approaches, but should anyone get close enough, they will have to deal with some badass and ruthless mofos.

Team 1 = Honorable Thieves, Team 2 = Stupid Drummers

  1. First Post: Esquire
  2. Second Post: SuperDrummer
  3. Third Post: DireDrill
  4. Fourth Post: Stupid_People
  5. Fifth Post: Esquire
  6. Sixth Post: SuperDrummer
  7. Summary Post: Stupid_People
  8. Summary Post: DireDrill

*Partners are allowed to substitute for each other's respective turns.

#3 Posted by Esquire (3833 posts) - - Show Bio

@diredrill @superdrummer @stupid_people

Notes on prep:

Pidgeot has little chance against Evil T-Girl in combat. First off, T-Girl is actively hunting Pidgeot since Good T-Girl is scouting out your team, meaning Evil T-Girl can devote her full attention to finding and killing Pidgeot, whereas the bird has to split his attention between scouting our team and finding Evil T-Girl. Second, T-Girl is invisible thanks to the Snake Talisman. I've found no mentions of Pidgeot having any sort of enhanced senses, so him detecting T-Girl is unlikely. With the Rooster and Rabbit Talismans granting her high-speed flight of her own, she'll be able to shadow the bird and catch him unawares with her TK before roasting him with eye beams and fire blasts from the Pig and Dragon Talismans. Pidgeot takes normal damage from fire attacks, so he should be killed pretty quickly by this barrage, and T-Girl's TK can keep him from escaping for as long as it takes to end him.

Your Feruchemists won't be able to leave your base at all during prep and, according to the rules Jokergeist stated in the Prep PMs, the furthest your team can start is E, so building an electric fence around D will have to take place once the battle has started. This means your team is distracted when the battle starts, giving our team more time to deploy as described below.

Battle

With a telepathic link and Good T-Girl using the Sheep Talisman to scout during the battle, our team will have the advantage of constant knowledge about your team's location and movements. We'll start the match by having the groups spread out from each other, making their separate ways across the map to flanking positions. Gorgon's Aerial attack team will come in from the Northwest, Mister Negative's from the Southeast, the Ground attack team will move to a position in the Northeast, the Flanking team will make their way to the forest around the power station, and the decoy team will follow the river from our starting position. All will make sure to stay low and out of sight behind cover as much as possible.

With the Skrulls transformed into woodland creatures, you have no way to detect them and no reason to attack them even if you did discover them somehow. They'll move across the map unhindered, making their way through the forest to your base without anyone bothering them at all. With Pidgeot killed during the scouting phase, none of your characters have the speed to effectively scout the area for any of our groups, so the Aerial and Ground attack groups should also be able to get into cover close to D without being detected.

Omi will use the Gills of Himachi to stay underwater as he and the Sweet Bot move towards your team. The Sweet Bot will fly just above the river, and will use the Shadow Slicer to create dozens of decoys around it. Once they get close enough for a clear line of sight, your team will see a small army of flying mechs baring down on them, which should cause them to panic a bit and open fire. Omi will use the Kaijin Charm and the Orb of Tornami to make a huge wall of water, obscuring the decoy team from view and making it harder to hit the decoys or know what's they're doing. While your snipers are focused on this, the Aerial and Ground teams will move in from their positions in cover. Sweet Tooth is invisible, so with T-Girl inside, the Ground Attack force will be undetectable. They'll drive straight to your base with T-Girl tearing down your fence using the Rooster Talisman's TK. Sweet Bot will then start ramming your personnel at high speeds while they don't know what's hit them, which should take out your minions very quickly. Once the fence is taken down, the Skrulls will use their laser rifles to start shooting down any of your minions still standing.

While your team is trying to deal with Sweet Tooth invisibly killing them all, the Skrulls blasting them down, and an army of mechs charging from the riverfront, the Aerial forces will attack. The Bat Shadowkhan will focus first on getting Gorgon and Mister Negative into your base quickly. Both Gorgon and Negative have items that allow them to fly, Gorgon is invisible thanks to the Snake Talisman, and both of them can slice bullets with their swords, so getting them in unharmed during all the chaos should be child's play. Gorgon has the most skill on the battlefield, a sword that can kill anything, and is invisible. He should be able to decapitate both Oga and the Protagonist without them having a chance to respond, and clean up any remaining minions. Negative will kill Croc, since he has basically every single advantage and is backed by the 6 Bat Shadowkhan. Evil T-Girl can also come in to help since Sweet Tooth doesn't need her, and Omi and Sweet Bot will probably have made it up from the river by now, so any remaining members of your team will get slaughtered by our full force coming down on them.

Our team is just too difficult to detect and has too many angles of attack for you to deal with it effectively. You have no way to counter our invisible attacks, no way to stop the Skrulls from slaughtering your snipers in an ambush, no way to keep Gorgon and Negative out of your base, and nobody who can stop an invisible Gorgon, anyway. You just don't have the versatility necessary to ward off our team's attacks, nor the mobility to keep your team from getting ruthlessly flanked since you have them trying to hold a position.

#4 Edited by SuperDrummer (778 posts) - - Show Bio

@esquire

@diredrill

@stupid_people

First off, Merry Christmas gang :D May the best team win!

I was wondering how to start this, there are SO many parts... But than I realized that I should probably start with our character outline. It would be great if you guys could as well, because you guys are using both Omi and T girl, who rely heavily on artifacts for their versatility, so an outline on which artifacts are being used for each would be very much appreciated.

Now than on to the fun stuff!

OGA TATSUMI

Enter Oga Tatsumi, the demon of Ishiyama

He goes by many names: the Child Rearing Badass, The father of The Demon Lord, Ishiyama's Strongest, and, more recently, your destroyer.

A bit of a background, when the infant demon lord was sent to earth to destroy the world, he attached himself to the most powerful and evil person he could to use as a catalyst: YOU GUESSED IT! None other than our very own delinquent. Already immensely powerful, being bonded to Beelzebub allowed him a near limitless amount of demonic energy that is capable of destroying buildings with ease.

However, seeing how that is a tad unfair, he will NOT be using any of Baby Beel's demonic energy, and will be fighting under his own power, like a man.

STRENGTH

Despite being a highschooler, Oga is capable of amazing feats of strength, including, but not limited to:

1-2) Punching people through solid cement (This is his specialty!)

3) Punching people out of windows and a very impressive amount of meters

4) Punching the sand on the beach and making a crater

DURABILITY

Oga has shown that he is more than capable of taking a hit or two, and has even proven capable of being thrown at least a half a mile and just getting frustrated

1) Oga getting punched hard

2) Oga not caring about said punch

3) Oga getting punched even harder

4) Oga being annoyed he got bfr'd by said punch

SPEED

Unfortunately, there are no direct speed feats... this is a manga character after all. However, by a very small amount of powerscailing, it is rather easy to deduce that he is indeed mach speed. In fact, I'm not sure that this is even considered powerscailing, it pretty obviously states that Oga would laugh at bullets.

This is Toujou. He is Oga's rival, fellow brawler, and the one who so kindly gave us our durability feats from earlier. This is Toujou being speedblitzed by Jabberwock, even though he and oga were working together, AND oga was using his demon powers:

And after a long, demonic powered fight, after baby beel has exhausted his powers, Oga decides to start trying:

ELECTRICAL IMMUNITY

Baby Beel, the Demon Lord, just LOVES electricity, and whenever he cries, Oga gets shocked with incredible amounts of electricity (in no particular order, although you should note that he is in the center of every one of these electrical storms):

But really, its worked to his advantage, as he is now he has electrical tolerance beyond any human:

Its a shame that Baby Beel isn't in this fight... But fighting next to the power generator with an electric fence that is conducting it's power should be able to compensate slightly. Or a lot. I forgot, how effective is a megawatt or twenty is in frying someone :/

RUTHLESSNESS:

Yes... Oga is the protagonist. But hes also an a$$hole. Point and case: the fact that he was chosen to be the demon king's parent. But why should I explain when I can have a guy with a wicked mustache do it for me???

PIDGEOT

Ahh pokemon... nothing like it. What do we think of when we recall our glory days, being the very best, like no one ever was?

Mindless. Grinding.

But you need to grind in the right place, and to do that, you need a trusty steed, and there isn't one more reliable than this majestic bird!

Now what makes this bird so great? Well, for one, it is one of the most consistent pokemon in the history of reality. For you see, while others are often victims of the rather... inconsistent pokedex. However, the game developers must have had a secret meeting and decided they need at least once consistent pokemon, and they made this:

I've got to say, thats more consistent than... well, most characters ever made. But there are a couple things that stand out: MACH 2, and the fact that it's sight is so superior that it can pick off magicarp and hunt them, even at absurdly high elevations. Now than, that is very, very fast. How fast?

Faster than the fastest snail in the world. I can guarantee you.

Now than... Pidgeot weighs 87.1lbs... A bullet weighs less than a pound, and travels at approximately half the speed. According to F=MA, there is >180X the force in a speeding Pidgeot than a speeding bullet. While he may not have the piercing power, that is still a lot of power, enough to make a teenage girl go splat. And he hasn't even touched upon his long list of abilities yet (See pic on the right). However, like all pokemon, he is limited to four moves, and I feel obligated to use a consistent moveset in each match. So, I will keep the same moves I used in the last round: Hurricane, Wing Attack, Double Team, and Roost. Yup. He can create afterimages, hurricanes, heal, and break stuff with his wings. Quite the scout if I do say so.

Of course, he could always use a nice synergy attack with Oga as well... Oga weighing about as much as/less than an adult should have no problem being carried by him

THE PROTAGINIST

As this is not my champion, I'm just going to link you to his Bio & Powers

KILLER CROC

Good ol' killer crock, a muscle head perfect for the title of meat-shield.

Capable of ripping vault doors off the wall, as well as brushing off bullets, he seems to be comfortably toeing the limits, and the addition of slapping around batman both even before the hush virus is a nice addition

Yes, I copied this exactly from our last battle thread... I see no reason to rewrite ALL of these :P

TERRISMEN KEEPERS

Now than, here is a character that I assume you know nothing about, from the Mistborn trilogy. Terrismen are capable of using a magic system called Feruchemancy. It is one of the three magic systems, and is the magic of preservation, contrary to Allomancy's creation and Hermalurgy's destruction. The way it works, in simple terms, is a keeper can store attributes in a piece of metal, and than access it later. So, in exchange for being weak for a week, they can become equally stronger for a week, using the metal as a medium to deposit it and withdraw it. Each metal can store a certain thing, which this table will show:

Iron

Weight

Steel

Speed
(note, they only have steel earings for the tourney)

Tin

Senses

Pewter

Strength

Zinc

Mental Speed

Brass

Warmth

Copper

Memories

Bronzez

Wakefulness

Gold

Health

A little bit more depth into the nature of Feruchemancy, one does not need to use their energy at the same rate they stored it. In fact, one can store strength in minute amounts for a year, and than suddenly be able to lift ten tons for an instant. Or, in reverse, they can become pathetically weak for a matter of hours and than be slightly stronger for the rest of their lives. The amount stored is, however, limited to the size of the piece of metal they use to store the attribute. The Feruchemists carry attributes in many things; rings, earrings, bracelets, and each one will, on average, have enough metal to multiply their attribute 200X for an instant, or double it for a week. They can draw from as many metal sources as they want at any given time, but only one of each type of metal (With the exception of tin, where they can draw from one of each sense).

Their copperminds, the bracelets which they store memories, are slightly different. They are far larger than any of the other ones, and can therefor store near limitless amounts of information. Keepers aren't primarily fighters, their main purpose in life is the preservation of knowledge. They spend seventeen years non-stop storing every speck of knowledge ever recorded, and storing it in their copper-minds, and whenever someone makes a discovery or gains a new perspective, they share it with the others, and they all record it.

There is your crash course on 1/3 of the magic in Mistborn

NCR VETERAN RANGERS

Again, I'm just going to copy it from the last thread:

Rangers are the most elite soldiers in the fallout universe. Theses are Rangers that are hand selected with a minimum of 20 years experience, and are rightfully feared by everyone in the game.

Why should they be feared you ask? Wonderful question!

A normal female ranger was capable of beating a centurion in hand to hand combat.

Whats a Centurion?

This is a Centurian

They are pretty much the biggest, burliest Spartans that you were ever see. Humanity as a species has been getting larger as history progresses, and so I mean that quite literally.

They were pretty much stolen away as kids (7-8 years old) and trained to be unbeatable in combat. And they usually are.

One single ranger girl (honestly, girls aren't usually as genetically capable in physical strength) dominated him in hand to hand combat.

We are using a team of sixteen that are males who are hand-selected because they are the best among the organization she was considered a rookie in.

Unfortunately, Thats all I have, @stupid_people will give these guys much more justice on his post!

Phew... Thats over. It only took a nice 3-4 hours. Now, onto your post and our rebuttals!

PREP

Pidgeot has little chance against Evil T-Girl in combat. First off, T-Girl is actively hunting Pidgeot since Good T-Girl is scouting out your team, meaning Evil T-Girl can devote her full attention to finding and killing Pidgeot, whereas the bird has to split his attention between scouting our team and finding Evil T-Girl. Second, T-Girl is invisible thanks to the Snake Talisman. I've found no mentions of Pidgeot having any sort of enhanced senses, so him detecting T-Girl is unlikely. With the Rooster and Rabbit Talismans granting her high-speed flight of her own, she'll be able to shadow the bird and catch him unawares with her TK before roasting him with eye beams and fire blasts from the Pig and Dragon Talismans. Pidgeot takes normal damage from fire attacks, so he should be killed pretty quickly by this barrage, and T-Girl's TK can keep him from escaping for as long as it takes to end him.

Haha... You actually want to fight Pidgeot... in an AREAL battle XD Lets take this one part at a time:

First off, T-Girl is actively hunting Pidgeot since Good T-Girl is scouting out your team, meaning Evil T-Girl can devote her full attention to finding and killing Pidgeot, whereas the bird has to split his attention between scouting our team and finding Evil T-Girl.

Actually, there is much more to be gained in hunting your scout than scouting your team, and it would thus be first priority. For, you see, without our mastermind making a translator, Pidgeot is incapable of relaying information. Jade has human vocal cords and thus would be able to be forced to speak. Its easy to see which is more useful.

I've found no mentions of Pidgeot having any sort of enhanced senses, so him detecting T-Girl is unlikely.

Just what type of invisibility are we talking here? Any sort of video would be appreciated, so I know what I have to disprove.

With the Rooster and Rabbit Talismans granting her high-speed flight of her own, she'll be able to shadow the bird and catch him unawares with her TK before roasting him with eye beams and fire blasts from the Pig and Dragon Talismans.

Again, any form of evidence of flight speed, which I highly doubt will be on Pidgeot's mach 2 level, and I know aren't over, considering that would put her over the limits. Also, something on the offensive abilities used would be helpful, considering I haven't seen Jackie Chan in years...

Pidgeot takes normal damage from fire attacks, so he should be killed pretty quickly by this barrage, and T-Girl's TK can keep him from escaping for as long as it takes to end him.

Haha... You do realize that her TK is less than 1 ton, which very well may not be enough to stop his speed, and he is a VERY capable fighter in his own right, yes?

And throughout all of this, her reflexes/reaction time have to be bullet timing at least to even SEE him, let alone react to him. This is a mismatch in Pidgeot's favor until you can provide evidence of her:

1) Reacting to something at least mach speed

2) Being completely undetectable by enhanced sight

We will almost certainly go farther in depth on this match-up, but I think that is it for now.

Your Feruchemists won't be able to leave your base at all during prep and, according to the rules Jokergeist stated in the Prep PMs, the furthest your team can start is E, so building an electric fence around D will have to take place once the battle has started. This means your team is distracted when the battle starts, giving our team more time to deploy as described below.

Not a problem. Using the full capabilities of their stored memories, and with the help of Oga (who has electrical immunity), there should be no problem with them setting up while you are busy setting up. After all, you are attacking from the northwest and south east, and it takes time to get to a point that you can attack from. Unless you are attacking in waves... in which case I think we will be even better off.

Just a little fyi, there is really nothing in the weakness department to relay, and we aren't exactly being stealthy. If you get information back, it wouldn't really matter.

Battle

With a telepathic link and Good T-Girl using the Sheep Talisman to scout during the battle, our team will have the advantage of constant knowledge about your team's location and movements.

Luckily, we don't care.

We'll start the match by having the groups spread out from each other, making their separate ways across the map to flanking positions. Gorgon's Aerial attack team will come in from the Northwest, Mister Negative's from the Southeast, the Ground attack team will move to a position in the Northeast, the Flanking team will make their way to the forest around the power station, and the decoy team will follow the river from our starting position. All will make sure to stay low and out of sight behind cover as much as possible.

And we will be picking our noses and playing cards, waiting for you. Except our snipers, but they will be covered in a different post (Sorry about that)

With the Skrulls transformed into woodland creatures, you have no way to detect them and no reason to attack them even if you did discover them somehow. They'll move across the map unhindered, making their way through the forest to your base without anyone bothering them at all.

... Woodland creatures...

Lets review.

Our team consists of: 16 ruthless touristic navy seal type soldiers who are hardened by YEARS of combat, a bird that is used to caterpillars being potential threats, someone so ruthless and cruel demons flock to him, a gang leader, and a lizard with instincts that most likely say hunt cute things...

Sorry, but you'd most likely get killed for the giggles.

Couldn't resist pointing that out

With Pidgeot killed during the scouting phase, none of your characters have the speed to effectively scout the area for any of our groups, so the Aerial and Ground attack groups should also be able to get into cover close to D without being detected.

Pidgeot has a 99% chance of being alive here still. And Snipers don't rely on speed to detect things.

Omi will use the Gills of Himachi to stay underwater as he and the Sweet Bot move towards your team. The Sweet Bot will fly just above the river, and will use the Shadow Slicer to create dozens of decoys around it. Once they get close enough for a clear line of sight, your team will see a small army of flying mechs baring down on them, which should cause them to panic a bit and open fire. Omi will use the Kaijin Charm and the Orb of Tornami to make a huge wall of water, obscuring the decoy team from view and making it harder to hit the decoys or know what's they're doing.

Please, give a list of abilities for Omi, shenganwu are VERY diverse...

And who is really going to be scared? With the exception of Terrismen, we have basically a troupe of war veterans, feral beasts, and psychopaths. Good luck with that. Especially considering Pidgeot can simply use whirlwind and blow away everything in a direction with 70+mph winds.

While your snipers are focused on this, the Aerial and Ground teams will move in from their positions in cover. Sweet Tooth is invisible, so with T-Girl inside, the Ground Attack force will be undetectable.

I have to know what that is before I can counter it.

They'll drive straight to your base with T-Girl tearing down your fence using the Rooster Talisman's TK.

She should be out of the picture by now... in prep actually.

Sweet Bot will then start ramming your personnel at high speeds while they don't know what's hit them, which should take out your minions very quickly.

Good luck getting past oga. And what speeds are we talking exactly? Because our Terrismen's enhanced mental quickness should let them keep up, and our rangers could also be fast enough depending on the speed.

Once the fence is taken down, the Skrulls will use their laser rifles to start shooting down any of your minions still standing.

Laser combat? With NCR veteran rangers?

Do you have a death wish?

While your team is trying to deal with Sweet Tooth invisibly killing them all

Seriously, what is this?

the Skrulls blasting them down

*the skrulls being blasted down

and an army of mechs charging from the riverfront

Facing a hurricane

the Aerial forces will attack.

Fun :D

The Bat Shadowkhan will focus first on getting Gorgon and Mister Negative into your base quickly.

The whaty what?

Both Gorgon and Negative have items that allow them to fly, Gorgon is invisible thanks to the Snake Talisman, and both of them can slice bullets with their swords, so getting them in unharmed during all the chaos should be child's play.

Cool... I think?

Gorgon has the most skill on the battlefield, a sword that can kill anything, and is invisible. He should be able to decapitate both Oga and the Protagonist without them having a chance to respond, and clean up any remaining minions.

Oga is more than capable of keeping up with Gorgon, and he has plenty of experience with sword users:

Check the 1:00 to 2:00 range. He is capable of dealing with high skilled swordsmen with absolute ease.

And to be quite honest, Toujou's breaking of the supersonic sword is around Gorgan's best presented feat (Bullet blocking), and Oga speedblitzed someone who speedblitzed him. Gorgan, even with invisibility would most likely be outmatched.

Negative will kill Croc, since he has basically every single advantage and is backed by the 6 Bat Shadowkhan.

This seems more like something the protagonist would deal with, with a little help from Croc.

Evil T-Girl can also come in to help since Sweet Tooth doesn't need her, and Omi and Sweet Bot will probably have made it up from the river by now, so any remaining members of your team will get slaughtered by our full force coming down on them.

Pidgeot will face Omi, using his wind element and speed to match his water element and skill. Tarrismen will back him up, depending on what the sweet things are.

Our team is just too difficult to detect and has too many angles of attack for you to deal with it effectively. You have no way to counter our invisible attacks, no way to stop the Skrulls from slaughtering your snipers in an ambush, no way to keep Gorgon and Negative out of your base, and nobody who can stop an invisible Gorgon, anyway. You just don't have the versatility necessary to ward off our team's attacks, nor the mobility to keep your team from getting ruthlessly flanked since you have them trying to hold a position.

You have nothing stopping you from coming into our base. We are opening the doors, welcoming you. You say we can't beat invisibility, but your snake talisman is getting taken in prep. You say nothing can stop Skrulls from ambushing our NCR elite veterans, but we have superior quality and quantity troops. No one can stop Gorgan? Meet Oga. Don't have the versatility? We have the power, we are the SUPREME brawlers. No matter how you approach, in the end it is still a fight, and you simply can't beat us in a fight. No mobility? Who is moving?

Here is how the battle will REALLY go down, according to the current facts.

In prep: Your scout will look around like a lost puppy for a bird moving too fast for her to see, and eventually will be badly beaten and captured, one way or another. He will than see that Gorgan and Mr. Negitive are the only ones who can even react to him.

Fight starts: The team rushes over to D, and Oga and the Tarrismen begin to set up. If any of your guys poke their heads too high:

Pidgeot will fly around killing your Skrull, and hold off the diversion team when they make their move. He will most likely also kill Omi/the diversion team. When Gorgan and Negitive attack, Oga will kill Gorgan while Croc and the protagonist tag team negitive. NCR will kill anything that moves that's not us, especially the instant a single Skrull transforms or they see Pidgeot kill one.. Tarrismen will provide support where needed. No matter how you approach, you still have to fight us, and we will win the fight. This isn't a team that will be freaked out by a flashy entrance, it is a team that will rip anything that is put in front of it to shreds.

Unfortunately for you, you were put in front of us.

*Stops stopwatch* Just under seven hours... not bad.

#5 Posted by Cjdavis103 (9575 posts) - - Show Bio

bump

#6 Edited by DireDrill (2447 posts) - - Show Bio

@esquire: @superdrummer: @stupid_people

Introduction

Just a quick introduction of our team for the readers out there.

Omi is a highly skilled Xiaolin Monk from Xiaolin Showdown. He uses a series of magical artifacts known as Shen Gong Wu that grant different powers. For this battle, Omi has Wu that grant him the following abilities: Superhuman Strength, Durability, Speed, Agility, Senses, as well as Telekinesis, Invisibility, Water Manipulation, Flight, Underwater Breathing, and Illusions. He also has the Emperor Scorpion which prevents theft of Wu.

The Gorgon is a highly skilled swordsman and martial fighter capable of taking on multiple high tier opponents simultaneously. He is the leader of the Hand and a high level member of Hydra. He is a mutant with the power of Telepathy and has been further enhanced by the Hand to have superhuman strength, speed, agility and regeneration. He is one of Marvel's biggest BAMFs.

Cable is the mutant son of Cyclops and Madelyne Pryor. He was infected with Apocalypse's Techno-Organic Virus at birth and was able to form a mutual symbiotic relationship with it. He has fought Apocalypse for decades and even across time. He is superhumanly strong and durable and has potent Telekinesis, Telepathy, Cyberpathy, and can see the entire EM spectrum.

Mr. Negative is the exact opposite of his alter ego Martin Li. He is the leader of his own crime syndicate that has managed to operate under the nose of the entire superhero community in New York City. In addition to his substantial strategic skill, his negative manipulation powers grant him the following abilities: Superhuman Strength, Durability, and Regeneration as well as corruption powers that allow him to alter his allies to better suit his needs.

T-Girl is Jade Chan the niece of Jackie Chan from Jackie Chan Adventures. She is a precocious little scamp having saved the world on multiple occasions. She is armed here with the Talismans a group of magical artifacts that grant her the following powers: Superhuman Speed, Regeneration, Telekinesis, Invisibility, Optic Blasts, Fireballs, Astral Projection, Duplication, and Animation.

The Skrulls are a highly advanced race of shapeshifters. They are expert infiltrators with the ability to so perfectly mimic a target that they are immune to most forms of detection. They have power energy weapons here that are designed to fight the Kree.

Bat Shadowkahn are a tribe of Shadowkahn with bat-like features that grant them flight. They also have an ability to fire a constricting beams. They were part of an army that threatened to plunge the world into darkness.

Last we have Sweet Tooth's Gang the big guns of our team. What they lack in forethought and tactics, they more than make up for in firepower and insanity. They pilot specially modified Ice Cream Trucks that can transform into monstrous robots. Sweet Bots, as they are called, are the love children of Sweet Tooth's desire for carnage and grant the pilot the following abilities: Superhuman Durability and Strength as well as Flight and a variety of weapons.

Pidgeot

So you are suggesting that good telescopic vision will reveal an invisible girl? You realize that telescopic vision only allows you to better see things that are visible, right? Well, just to make sure you know how fruitless a strategy you are employing here is a video of the Snake Talisman, start at 3:35:

See, how not even Jackie could see her and he is a trained fighter and archaeologist. How does Pidgeot even attempt to attack her when he has no means of detecting her? Now even if he could detect her, she is still just as fast as he. Watch this from 14:50:

See how they are easily able to replicate Quicksilver and the Flash's run on water trick? The Rabbit and Rooster gives her supersonic flight that will allow her to easily keep pace with Pidgeot. You also don't need powerful TK to bring down a bird, you just have to move those feathers around. See, with all of his speed, he still needs control surfaces to allow himself to move. T-Girl doesn't have to stop a bullet, just hit its control surfaces. Eventually, Pidgeot will hit the ground at mach 2 and allow T-Girl to just murder him with fire. Evil T-Girl has no morals and will absolutely just murder him with a smile on her face. Let's be sporting and allow Pidgeot to get a hit in, unless he kills her she'll just regenerate thanks to the Horse Talisman. You think your little team is going to scare her, then you obviously have never seen her face down 7 Demons intent on killing her and win. On a day to day basis, she faces off against horrors that would make you pee yourself. You will get nothing but fireballs and optic blasts to the face for your trouble. Overall your scout is dead. Even if he is not, your scout gives you nothing of value because as you already said, he cannot communicate with your team. So we'll be generous and move forward as though your scout isn't the horribly burnt corpse that it totally is.

You have been pretty critical of evidence gathering, could we get some actual feats for Pidgeot? If you want to play the evidence game then statements in a Pokedex are simply not enough, we need some actual feats.

The Battle

So you guys have decided to dig in? You know why you rarely see a strategy like that work in modern military confrontations? Because it doesn't work.

Now, since Good T-Girl has constantly been watching and listening to your team, we'll know about this plan. You have conceded as much already. So with that in mind, our strategy will be slightly changed.

What is sad is that with you digging in, our Decoy Team and Ground Team can take down your team by itself. They start by driving up to your little base. They are in truck mode with the little music that ice cream trucks have playing. This will undoubtedly attract your team's attention. One of your Rangers will open fire and he'll see his bullet do nothing at all against the truck that is approaching. Once it gets reasonably close it will stop. Suddenly it will start to contort and at the end of the contortions it unveils its new demonic clown form and begins raining metal and fire on them. Then it isn't just one demon clown it is 2 and 3 and 4 until they can't keep track anymore. See what your team doesn't know is that one of them is real and invisible and firing at them. Your team's can't not engage them because they are taking actual losses. All while your team is hopelessly fighting our army of illusions, Omi has been moving into the river behind the Powerstation. Using his Kaijin Charm and Orb of Tornami and years of experience manipulating the element of water, he'll start gathering the water into a massive wave. He will then crash this massive wave down upon your team and then freeze it instantly. Bet you are thinking about Pidgeot's wind powers, right? Check below to see why that is a bad idea. Your entire team is now helplessly frozen because you have so little data on our team. At this point, we have Omi selectively unfreeze foes and we execute them until your entire team is dead.

You need to prove several things in order for your team to survive this strategy:

  1. Your team can detect magical illusions which none of the information you provided on them suggests.
  2. Your team can survive a massive wave of water freezing on top of them.
  3. Each member of your team can take our entire team on in single combat.

If you fail to prove these then your team is now dead. Thanks to your focus on power as oppose to versatility, our team can pretty much use hundreds of strategies to kill your team. Cable has far more combat experience and knowledge than Master Chief and has fought a war through time singlehandedly. Our leader gives our team a massive strategic advantage that your team can't match.

Counters

You are using NCR Veteran Rangers right? Did you know that the NCR's major means of moving resources around was brahmin caravans. To the point that you can find Brahmin, Bighorners, coyotes and all manner of creatures near Camp Golf in range of these Veteran Rangers that just go about their lives. Unless they are being actively charged, none of your rangers will even lift a finger against woodland critters. The rest of your team knows they are going to be attacked so wasting time shooting creatures that present no danger would be very counterproductive. The Skrulls will be able to move about completely undetected. Not that it matters since 2 of our guys can solo your team.

You are also relying alot on Pidgeot's speed because you think him faster than our entire team. Our scout is as fast as he is. Gorgon cuts mach 2 bullets with ease, slicing Pidgeot in half would be no problem. Pidgeot will be dead to begin with but even if he is still alive, he won't be an issue for our team at all.

You also are relying alot on Oga's perceived skill and speed. You want to know why Oga won't dodge the Gorgon? Because his Telepathy, Superhuman Speed, and ridiculous amount of skill. He dismembered a speedster with no problem by using Telepathy to predict where she was going and use his own speed to put his blade right through her arms. Yo-yo is faster than everyone here and she was taken apart by Gorgon. When Oga tries to dodge his blade, Gorgon will know about it before he does it and move his blade to intercept. You have to show that Oga has telepathy resistance or the ability to fight without his mind. Gorgon is one of the top level swordsman in the Marvel Universe. He has made people with decade of experience look like fools. I love how you are suggesting that Oga can even fight an invisible foe without so much as any evidence that he can detect him. Oga is no match for Gorgon. In fact in 1 on 1, the Protagonist is the only one that survives on your team and only because of his TK.

The Energy Rifles the Skrulls are using are designed to fight the Kree not barely light a fire like the energy weapons of the Fallout Universe. Heck, the NCR Rangers also have ZERO RESISTANCE to any energy weapons as Ranger Combat Armor provides nothing like that. If they take a hit from a Skrull Energy Rifle, they will die. So don't expect any of the experience they have with the Enclave or Brotherhood's pitiful Plasma and Laser weaponry will give them any advantage.

You have made a lot of how your team is so bloodthirsty when you seem to have forgotten that our team is just as bloodthirsty. Mr. Negative's corruption powers allow us to alter our team's morals as we see fit. We can turn everyone on our team into bloodthirsty killers with no problem. Evil T-Girl is already going to be bloodthirsty thanks to the Tiger Talisman extracting all the good from her.

I also love how you spend most of your post just saying the opposite of what we just said without providing anything that supports it.

Conclusion

Power means nothing without target, it means nothing without ways to deliver it, and it is useless against stealth. Our team's stealth, versatility and similar level of power make our team the superior construct. Your team's lack of strategic thinking, digging in tactics, and overall lack of detection and versatility makes them easy pickings for our team. There is literally nothing of any value that your team can do to keep them from getting slaughtered.

#7 Posted by Stupid_People (1248 posts) - - Show Bio

@diredrill First off, thank you for the outlines of your characters they are much appreciated.

@esquire @superdrummer Now to the debate:

So you are suggesting that good telescopic vision will reveal an invisible girl? You realize that telescopic vision only allows you to better see things that are visible, right? Well, just to make sure you know how fruitless a strategy you are employing here is a video of the Snake Talisman, start at 3:35:

We were not suggesting anything of the sort, we were simply asking for proof of a high level of invisibility. Which you provided. Now we may continue.

See, how not even Jackie could see her and he is a trained fighter and archaeologist. How does Pidgeot even attempt to attack her when he has no means of detecting her? Now even if he could detect her, she is still just as fast as he. Watch this from 14:50

Respectable speed example indeed, but anyone watching can clearly see she had minimal ability to keep up with her own speed if ATALL. Travel speed means nothing without being able to react accordingly. Not to mention she has to be either at or below Pidgeot to even be within the limits, therefore she obviously can't keep up.

See how they are easily able to replicate Quicksilver and the Flash's run on water trick?

You'd better hope she is nowhere near their level of speed or she will be over mach 2 and over the limits.

The Rabbit and Rooster gives her supersonic flight that will allow her to easily keep pace with Pidgeot.

Once again, travel speed =/= combat speed so unless you show her at those speeds with optimal reaction and fighting ability she wont be in combat anywhere near that speed.

You also don't need powerful TK to bring down a bird, you just have to move those feathers around. See, with all of his speed, he still needs control surfaces to allow himself to move. T-Girl doesn't have to stop a bullet, just hit its control surfaces.

Jade doesn't seem like the most tactical fighter out there, does she even know bird physiology? Isn't she twelve? 6th grade tops?

Eventually, Pidgeot will hit the ground at mach 2 and allow T-Girl to just murder him with fire. Evil T-Girl has no morals and will absolutely just murder him with a smile on her face. Let's be sporting and allow Pidgeot to get a hit in, unless he kills her she'll just regenerate thanks to the Horse Talisman.

Pokemon are rather ruthless aswell. Morals? They blindly follow the orders of pre-pubescent kids! Pokemon are killers, simple as that. Just look at poor Cubone, his mom killed by team rocket!

Face it, the ONLY reason that team rockets Pokemon don't kill yours when you loose to them is A) Game mechanics and B) To keep it PG.

"Unless he kills her"- I feel like you dont know just how hard that hit will be. He will be traveling at around twice the speed of most bullets and is >80x the weight. Good luck surviving that.

You think your little team is going to scare her, then you obviously have never seen her face down 7 Demons intent on killing her and win. On a day to day basis, she faces off against horrors that would make you pee yourself.

Luckily, it isn't me who is facing her because I would indeed come up short! Instead it is Pidgeot, who is perfectly capable of fighting Arceus, Giratina, shadow Pokemon (Morals hidden away under lock and key so tight that they are barely unlocked by reality warpers!), Deoxys, and even things it KNOWS will kill it. Intimidation wont be a factor here either way, but you don't need to fear something for it to kill you.

You will get nothing but fireballs and optic blasts to the face for your trouble. Overall your scout is dead. Even if he is not, your scout gives you nothing of value because as you already said, he cannot communicate with your team.

I'm sorry but you seem to be putting A LOT of faith into these optic blasts and fireballs but can we see them in action? Mabye? Just a little?

So we'll be generous and move forward as though your scout isn't the horribly burnt corpse that it totally is.

You have been pretty critical of evidence gathering, could we get some actual feats for Pidgeot? If you want to play the evidence game then statements in a Pokedex are simply not enough, we need some actual feats.

Pokedex > None. Now, because we are using "Pidgeot" not "Ashes Pidgeot", "Gary's Pidgeot", or "Green's Pidgeot", we MUST use generic references. That only leaves us with Pokedex, Pokemon Ranger, the TCG, and non leveling Pokemon mystery dungeon characters. Here are the TCG descriptions:

More of the same. It’s like in-game Dragonborn and lore Dragonborn, 2 different canons. We aren't using RPG mechanics (or you'd be dead in an instant quite literally), NO anime references (because its a watered down version that contradicts this version constantly making feats non interchangeable). We are using the Pokedex and attack description Pidgeot, we are using the attack choices and 4 attack limit because it is consistent with nearly every form of Pokemon to date.

Dont like it? Tough luck, it's not your choice. Its your job to go against it. Also, quite frankly we would love to know EXACTLY what we are dealing with because vague descriptions such as "super speed" can range anywhere from Captain America to Wally West.

The Battle

So you guys have decided to dig in? You know why you rarely see a strategy like that work in modern military confrontations? Because it doesn't work.

No, actually are you familiar with the Blitzkrieg technique of WW2? It mainly consists of constant movement SPECIFICALLY because digging in was so devastating to both sides. Ever heard of trench warfare? Look it up sometime.

Now, since Good T-Girl has constantly been watching and listening to your team, we'll know about this plan. You have conceded as much already. So with that in mind, our strategy will be slightly changed.

By all means. Have fun.

What is sad is that with you digging in, our Decoy Team and Ground Team can take down your team by itself. They start by driving up to your little base. They are in truck mode with the little music that ice cream trucks have playing.

Saints row protagonists. Vehicle. You do the math.

Considering that 99% of the time he is embodied by a 12 year old who likes to blow stuff up I think they better be ready to go for a little air travel. Truck? He's on it, forget the snipers.

This will undoubtedly attract your team's attention. One of your Rangers will open fire and he'll see his bullet do nothing at all against the truck that is approaching. Once it gets reasonably close it will stop. Suddenly it will start to contort and at the end of the contortions it unveils its new demonic clown form and begins raining metal and fire on them. Then it isn't just one demon clown it is 2 and 3 and 4 until they can't keep track anymore. See what your team doesn't know is that one of them is real and invisible and firing at them.

See above.

If not, the Terrismen are super geniuses with enhanced senses. They weigh 2-2.5 tons I assume, as much as an ice cream truck?

Its getting crushed by a sudden burst of strength from a Terrisman. And cant move him if he uses his stored weight, a punch will be countered by storing mass amounts of weight(becoming near weightless) and using a bit of speed to dance circles around you. Then drawing on strength and smashing you to pieces. These tin cans are nothing to Feruchemists.

Your team's can't not engage them because they are taking actual losses. All while your team is hopelessly fighting our army of illusions, Omi has been moving into the river behind the Powerstation. Using his Kaijin Charm and Orb of Tornami and years of experience manipulating the element of water, he'll start gathering the water into a massive wave. He will then crash this massive wave down upon your team and then freeze it instantly. Bet you are thinking about Pidgeot's wind powers, right? Check below to see why that is a bad idea. Your entire team is now helplessly frozen because you have so little data on our team. At this point, we have Omi selectively unfreeze foes and we execute them until your entire team is dead.

Woah woah woah wait a second...So a hurricane (which we are using at the lowest possible level to still be considered one) is over the limits, yet making a giant wave, flash freezing it, then selectively unfreezing people is completely within them???

Rules not covered in limitations:

"You know the power level I'm looking for, and if you don't, ask. No picking a character with electrogeohemopyrokinesis and claiming I never specifically stated you couldn't use a character who could manipulate the earth's magnetic field in a capacity to cause intense friction in the iron in a person's body causing them to light on fire and explode. Oddball powers are to be okayed by me before they can be used."

You are INSTANTLY freezing water (which you can only lift 2 tons of fyi or Omi is DQ'd)

That seems "slightly" above what is intended. Before you attack us, check your own powers.

Furthermore you have just dumped a huge amount of water on a Power Station AND your robots, congrats Einstein.

You need to prove several things in order for your team to survive this strategy:

1. Your team can detect magical illusions which none of the information you provided on them suggests.

2. Your team can survive a massive wave of water freezing on top of them.

3. Each member of your team can take our entire team on in single combat.

No, we really don't. You are suggesting a strategy that is either A) Beyond the scopes of the tourney or B) You are throwing a fish tank at us. Here's the math:

1 gallon = 8.34lbs. 2 tons= 4000lbs. That is less than 500 gallons.

Say hello to a 500 gallon fish tank:

You MIGHT be able to squeeze Oga in there, or perhaps Croc may decide to make a fashion statement. But the fun part is what you have REALLY just done was spill water on the ground for all your footsteps to be seen. Gosh darn it.

If you fail to prove these then your team is now dead.

We choose secret option C: none of the above. Plus a shower.

Thanks to your focus on power as oppose to versatility, our team can pretty much use hundreds of strategies to kill your team.

Please do try, this was fun.

Cable has far more combat experience and knowledge than Master Chief and has fought a war through time singlehandedly. Our leader gives our team a massive strategic advantage that your team can't match.

Ill tell you exactly what Drummer did, we simply don't need an elaborate plan to deal with your "team". Our characters are a kind where we are just as good sans prep. Oga has casually strolled into a building of high level demons without a plan at all and wiped the floor with them, Protagonist is NOTHING BUT improv, the Rangers have their set up/prep, and now Oga gets a bonus from the helpful terrismen and has acquired a source of electricity that will do nicely as it transfers from his fist to your teams faces. Or perhaps he can simply take a nice electric dip in the puddle you just threw and electrocute all your soldiers that approach.

Counters

You are using NCR Veteran Rangers right? Did you know that the NCR's major means of moving resources around was brahmin caravans. To the point that you can find Brahmin, Bighorners, coyotes and all manner of creatures near Camp Golf in range of these Veteran Rangers that just go about their lives. Unless they are being actively charged, none of your rangers will even lift a finger against woodland critters. The rest of your team knows they are going to be attacked so wasting time shooting creatures that present no danger would be very counterproductive. The Skrulls will be able to move about completely undetected. Not that it matters since 2 of our guys can solo your team.

Woodland creature mutilization was more of a humor comment, yes? But take it as you wish.

On that subject Pidgeot could very possibly see their transformation well across the battlefield. After all, eagle eyes pale in comparison to this winged monster. If he sees this he could easily hunt them down with little opposition. But assuming that is out of the question, as you said, with prompting, they will attack. But once they do, they will get shot down.

You are also relying alot on Pidgeot's speed because you think him faster than our entire team. Our scout is as fast as he is. Gorgon cuts mach 2 bullets with ease, slicing Pidgeot in half would be no problem. Pidgeot will be dead to begin with but even if he is still alive, he won't be an issue for our team at all.

Yea, Pidgeot will NOT be engaging him in a 1v1. Believe me. But the rest of your team cant react, and he cant hope to protect them all from this threat.

You also are relying alot on Oga's perceived skill and speed. You want to know why Oga won't dodge the Gorgon? Because his Telepathy, Superhuman Speed, and ridiculous amount of skill. He dismembered a speedster with no problem by using Telepathy to predict where she was going and use his own speed to put his blade right through her arms. Yo-yo is faster than everyone here and she was taken apart by Gorgon. When Oga tries to dodge his blade, Gorgon will know about it before he does it and move his blade to intercept. You have to show that Oga has telepathy resistance or the ability to fight without his mind.

Fight without a mind? The guy is a strategic dunce who punches things really hard after all. He sees something coming? He dodges it. Sees an opening? He punches you. Gorgon might be able to see him, maybe even keep up with him, but he certainly cant use his mind. This is a manga we are talking about. This guy has 0 schooling. He will however beat you with a rattle.

This is AT a school. One with trash teachers who cower in the corner as the students use the classrooms as gang headquarters. Simple brawling constantly going on, brawling at its finest!

Gorgon is one of the top level swordsman in the Marvel Universe. He has made people with decade of experience look like fools. I love how you are suggesting that Oga can even fight an invisible foe without so much as any evidence that he can detect him. Oga is no match for Gorgon. In fact in 1 on 1, the Protagonist is the only one that survives on your team and only because of his TK.

Detect him?? Check your own video at 3:30 or 4:40, the talisman turns the USER invisible, not what they're carrying. You are now a flying sword!

Also, you aren't fighting anyone from the Marvel universe. We are now in a magical realm known as manga where there are more than a few people who can make a comic fighter look like a blind child.

Though Oga is lacking in the skill department, his instincts in battle are through the roof, and in manga, that is superior to skill 9 times out of 10.

The Energy Rifles the Skrulls are using are designed to fight the Kree not barely light a fire like the energy weapons of the Fallout Universe. Heck, the NCR Rangers also have ZERO RESISTANCE to any energy weapons as Ranger Combat Armor provides nothing like that. If they take a hit from a Skrull Energy Rifle, they will die. So don't expect any of the experience they have with the Enclave or Brotherhood's pitiful Plasma and Laser weaponry will give them any advantage.

No energy resistance is quite true, aside from the fact that they take full clips of the stuff without dropping. Even with a full repair laser rifle and an energy skill of 100 you can drain shots into one for longer than a player would enjoy. I wouldn't take their damage threshold lightly. Not to mention you are very dependent on these fodder soldiers getting anywhere near them without missing limbs. Which i guarantee wont happen with the strategy you've suggested. Can they take Anti material rifle .50 cal shots? We'll see.

Do take note of the rules if you will aswell, since the limit is: "At base, nothing more powerful than a sniper rifle, Extended: They can have up to 3 uses of something RPG level or lower (grenades, rpgs, etc.)” therefore if they are greater than our snipers they only have 3 shots to work with.

I would like to see these weapons and soldiers in action if you wouldn't mind. I want see JUST how outclassed Fallout tech is.

You have made a lot of how your team is so bloodthirsty when you seem to have forgotten that our team is just as bloodthirsty. Mr. Negative's corruption powers allow us to alter our team's morals as we see fit. We can turn everyone on our team into bloodthirsty killers with no problem. Evil T-Girl is already going to be bloodthirsty thanks to the Tiger Talisman extracting all the good from her.

We did not claim to be MORE bloodthirsty. We just don't NEED Mr. Negative to turn ours off,but we are a group of puppy kickers after all, no denying that. XD

I also love how you spend most of your post just saying the opposite of what we just said without providing anything that supports it.

On the contrary actually, we have provided a hefty some of evidence. To be exact: 25 scans and a video on Oga, feats for Pidgeot from >20 resources, a video outline on the protagonists abilities, feats from croc beating batman/durability/ strength, and an outline on the Terrismen (no scans, its a novel).

A quick survey of YOUR posts shows you have: 3 videos(2 of which were on the same person), and a whole lot of implications. Bravo.

Response

Scouting:

T girl is clearly not keeping up with her own speed and has reactions far below what is needed to fight a mach 2 opponent. Also, what evidence do you have that the speed will apply to her OTHER talisman? Can 2 even be used simultaneously? I trust both above will be addressed and you will have the benefit of the doubt for the time being. But for now, the scouting period will go as such:

T-Girl will split herself in 2 and uses astral projection to scout with the good side. The bad side will then use her time to hunt down Pidgeot using invisibility, speed, flight, and ranged attacks. Neither are capable of seeing eachother as T-Girl is untraceable in the air with invisibility and Pidgeot travels too quick for her to see. Both scouts make it to the battle phase with info on the opposing team.

Yes, information. How you ask?

While taking a stroll through the tourney rules I have come across something interesting:

You catch that?

Looks like Pidgeot can talk to our team, considering Pokemon interact through specie specific dialects. In every showing, Pokemon can all understand each other and is even picked up by the Pokedex from time to time, they obviously have a language.

Battle:

Now our team is aware of your invisibility. And you seem to have forgotten we have Master Chief as a leader who pounds invisible Elites daily. It is more than likely he has tricks to share with the team to overcome this threat. As I hope you know the Rangers deal with super mutants and night-kin alike and what do night-kin do? GO INVISIBLE.

PS: If you could provide a video of Xiaolin Showdown invisibility? That way we know what we are dealing with as the Jade video was most helpful.

The 2 most notable tips for invisibility would be:

1. Have them hold/throw something on them.

2. Use your other senses.

The ground in the picture looks pretty loose does it not? A gust from Pidgeot would easily kick up any sand/dirt and cover your team.

If that doesn't work, luckily we have the Terrismen who are capable of enhancing their senses. Massively. And considering they have >800 years of knowledge at their disposal, they will definitely know to and how to use it. It will be another battle against your sweet bots and again, you will loose. Their manipulation of weight allows them to attack even from the air. Once your invisible character is dead, we will take advantage of the Wu ourselves. Giving it to the Protagonist if he is in a position in which he can accept it. (As Oga will gain nothing from it while fighting Gorgon).

Gorgon will, unless you disprove it:

A. Be a floating sword

B. Be footsteps in your puddles

C. Covered in dust and thus visible

D. Both A and B

E. Both B and C

F. Both A and C

G. All of the above

Currently Gorgon is a G. That lets Oga fight him on equal terms.

Your other minions Bat shadowkhan are very unknown at this point. Flight is obvious but the physical abilities along with the lasers abilities are completely in the air still.

Your Scrull are, by your own words, Using weapons above the limits and thus can only be used 3 times. After that they are fodder. But since DQ'ing is lame lets just assume they are on the same level as us for now.

Your sweet bots are capable, but our Terrismen are too well rounded, making them simply more capable in a fight. They will either be completely destroyed or sustain heavy damage to which they will be non factors for the rest of the battle.

Omi is FAR over the TK limits with his hydrokinesis, and if you cannot prove otherwise in your following post he will be DQ'd along with his equipment. It is a lame way to, go but it is an unbalanced factor in an otherwise balanced battle, and should be removed for the sake of the tournament.

You say we are without target, but our target is simple, you. And what better way to deliver that target when it is coming right to us? On a silver platter no less. Your stealth tactics are floppy at best, versatility meaning little when facing us, and similar power is laughable. In the end, you must take us on, we WILL win, and no strategy you have suggested will change your fate.

#8 Posted by DireDrill (2447 posts) - - Show Bio

@esquire: @superdrummer: @stupid_people:

We are rather taken aback by your continued refusal to engage in even the most basic of research into our team. We spent time researching your team so that we wouldn't waste time uselessly asking questions that again could be answered in 10 seconds of Googling.

Pidgeot

We thought you were using one of the canon versions of Pidgeot but now we see that you are using your own interpretation of Pidgeot which means he effectively is a feral bird. So now that we are dealing with a Feral Pidgeot we can now completely debunk your entire prep strategy. Now since the rules do not ensure perfect teamwork or negate the character's personality, this means your untrained, uncaptured Pidgeot will have no desire to follow any commands given to it. It won't follow any strategies or obey any of your team unless they can capture it in a Pokeball. As none of your team have a Pokeball, your team will be completely unable to control Pidgeot. Heck, you can't even control it, it will be in control of its actions. So what will it do when in this environment? It will start hunting for tasty Magikarp as it is suggested in the lion share of the Pokedex information. So rather than hunting down our team member, it will be hunting and likely sleeping. Nothing in this environment that it can discern can ever hope to hurt it. So it'll get lazy and find a place to sleep after filling up on ridiculously easy to eat fish from the river. Upon falling asleep, Evil T-Girl can kill it without any issue. Had we known you were using a Pokedex entry as a character, we would have capitalized on that much earlier. Until you can show us proof that it would not act like this, then your Pidgeot is an extra crispy bucket of KFC.

As you asked for a combat speed feat, we would also like to see a combat speed feat from Pidgeot. All you have shown is that your Pidgeot can TRAVEL at Mach 2. Great Horned Owls and Golden Eagles are much slower than Peregrin Falcons and they still enjoy a healthy amount of Peregrin Falcons. Just so you know, Peregrin Falcons are the fastest animals on the planet. All you've shown is that your Pidgeot is a hyped up Peregrin Falcon. Well guess what, T-Girl is a Golden Eagle. Good luck producing that feat because it does not exist for your Pidgeot. At best your Pidgeot can cruise and dive at high speed, you have yet to show a combat feat for him.

You say that Pidgeot is Ruthless and that he has faced off against some really powerful Pokemon but you can't show me that because your Pidgeot has ZERO FEATS. You just neutered your bird into uselessness as there is nothing keeping it from just flying away.

T-Girl

In each example I used of the Talismans power, it was the first time it was used in the show meaning no one had time to practice using it. Jade was shown to be the most tactically proficient user of the Talismans being the first one to figure out that Rooster + Rabbit = Flight. She also is the one who doles out the Talismans when they go into battle, making sure to optimize which of her allies gets the Talisman they need to be their best. Heck, when she was left without allies she was able to use her stuffed moose, her pet rooster and her pet pig to take down a powerful foe using Bat Shadowkahn. She has a pet bird and she has more than enough knowledge about bird physiology to bring down Pidgeot. She is by far the most dangerous part of the J-Team.

Here is her using the Rabbit, Rooster, and Tiger Talisman to take on Hsi Wu the Sky Demon, even outmaneuvering him. Check around 15:05 to see her totally making a Demon Sorceror look like a doofus. She has impressive control here and much improved reaction time. As I said, she gets better at using them over time.

The Battle

I love how when I ask for MODERN MILITARY TACTICS you bring up WWII and WWI tactics from over 60 years ago. No modern military would ever use a trench because Artillery and Aircraft completely invalidate this tactic. Even in WWI it was a dated tactic because chemical weapons, tanks, and aircraft were starting to see some use. Our team is built around Artillery and Aircraft.

The next thing I love is how you have your Protagonist move out to attack our illusions. None of them are real, he attacks them he opens himself up to being attacked by an Invisible Gorgon. As he is "totally pwning" our illusory Sweet Bots, he himself gets sliced in half by the Gorgon who was laying in wait. Also, the Snake turns anything that is being worn invisible. We see this clearly when Viper's close aren't visible and it has rendered belts, jewelry, glasses, and pretty much everything but what is in the person's hands. Much like most swordsmen, he doesn't draw his sword until he is using it. Once drawn, it will become visible but by that time it is too late. Anything that a Talisman touches can also be empowered. If he really needs to make the blade invisible as well, he can hold the Snake Talisman and Godkiller in the same hand making both invisible.

I really need to see a feat for Feruchemist Senses. You have said they have them and given the virtual dearth of information about them, there is nothing we have to go on. Also, according to your own rules for it, they can only store enough to keep them heightened to high levels for short periods of time. Our team knows your team very well, so they could easily just have Gorgon make you waste them before we attack. Heck, we could force you to waste all of their power by using illusions to continually bait them out. You are under siege at this point you dug in which means our team has free reign to do whatever they desire. Furthermore how do they know to use their super senses? You suggested earlier that because there are invisible guys in Halo that your team will know our team has invisibility. That makes zero sense since your team could gather no information on ours. Pidgeot even it were alive, would NEVER have detected T-Girl so how does your team find out? As your MC never sees or hears about our team's invisibility, he can't possibly predict that our team will be using invisibility. That is like receiving zero intel and assuming that you are facing off against nuclear terror zombies. It is not reasonable.

Water isn't air. Water has many different properties that air does not. Liquids are denser and fall according to gravity. I clearly stated that Omi would be building this wave while your team is fighting our illusory Sweet Bots. He wouldn't be just using the "Few Flaps" that Pidgeot would need according to you. The Orb of Tornami creates water and ice and the Kaijin Charm allows him to change the state from water to ice or ice to water and reshape it at will. Using the Orb of Tornami, he can create a dam on the river storing water and adding more via orb of Tornami. Then when he has gathered enough, he can release that like a flood. Think of it like the Ents releasing the dam in the Two Towers. They aren't manipulating the water so much as they are just taking advantage of its properties. He is not guiding it, he is just unleashing it. I may have mispoke when I suggested he would be freezing the entire wave, he'll only be freezing the water over your team as anything more would be ridiculous. Heck, given that you have electricity flowing through a fence, anyone on your team who can't take your own voltage will be fried. Only Oga likely survives and he can't win against our entire team. Flying Robots are immune to water on the ground.

Our team is basically all flying or hovering, you think footsteps are a thing we will be leaving? Good luck convincing anyone of that. Then you suggest covering using dust? The Snake Talisman makes anything you are wearing invisible. If you are wearing dust, then it becomes invisible. At best, you'll have revealed Gorgon for a second before he recloaks with your dust on him. Sweet Tooth is flying invisible way above you so dust wouldn't be of any value.

It is also hilarious that you think Manga Fighters are superior because "magic" when you have nothing to support that assertion. You also suggest that he has a natural talent for fighting and that his instincts are good which is complete bollocks. What you are seeing is the same thing that Vash the Stampede presents. They build up this image of incredulity so that people underestimate them, even readers like you. Heck, Jackie Chan beats people with fishes but that does not mean that he doesn't have a ridiculous amount of skill and training to make that possible. Oga wins because he is manipulating people constantly. What I mean by you have to fight with your mind is that you have to focus so much on something else that your mind is not concentrating on the fight. Wolverine was able to pull this trick off once and was only able to do so because he has experience fighting telepaths. Show me a telepathy resistance feat for Oga, when you can't I'll accept that Gorgon slices him to bits. Gorgon is one of those few Comic Characters that can make the majority of manga street level fighters look like so much trash.

One more thing, Omi's Emperor Scorpion gives us absolute control over any Wu. If your team picks one up, Omi can kill you with it.

Skrulls are amazing shapeshifters. Many Skrulls can move their vital organs around in mid fight to make mortally wounding them impossible. Your snipers are trained for headshots which won't help them. It will hurt but it won't kill them. Sniper Rifle is meant to denote the DESTRUCTIVE ability not piercing ability. Our energy weapons do not hit like an RPG or Grenade, they hit like rifles. They are completely within limits. If someone was using a character that fired Adamantium Bullets, then they would still be within limits because their weapon destroys no more than a sniper rifle. The cool part about the shapeshifting is that they can shoot you while looking like a deer or tree.

You also seem to believe that your Terrisman can beat Sweet Tooth much less a Sweet Bot. Sweet Tooth has machine guns and enough incendiaries to burn a forest. They have no durability boosting abilities. Weight manipulation would not save them here. How do your Terrismen not get burned or shredded? Our Sweet Bots are also not designed for fighting hand to hand, they are distance fighters. Sweet Tooth is one of the best drivers in the game having survived tournament after tournament and multiple confrontations with everything from cops to the military. He won't get close enough for your Terrismen to engage without first hitting them with Laughing Deaths which are homing incendiary missiles. If he uses a Sweet Slam, he hits with enough force to throw a semi off a bridge, that's 8 tons. You also forget he can use optic blasts that your Terrisman cannot block.

Conclusion

You have posted a lot of ridiculous assertions based upon your zero research into the opposing team that have really delayed this debate.

Your team has a strategy that only dooms them to being sitting ducks to our superior firepower, mobility, and versatility. That you think that using WWI tactics against people who can engage in combat like this is ridiculous. Furthermore your choosing to use a featless Pidgeot makes him your big weak link in a battle designed around Scouting.

#9 Posted by Vaeternus (9410 posts) - - Show Bio

Nice posts, when can we vote?

#10 Edited by SuperDrummer (778 posts) - - Show Bio

Sorry about the extremely late response, I got extremely busy for a while, and I'm still not done with this post... so I'm just going to put up what I have and let Stupid_people put his summary up, and call it good.

We are rather taken aback by your continued refusal to engage in even the most basic of research into our team. We spent time researching your team so that we wouldn't waste time uselessly asking questions that again could be answered in 10 seconds of Googling.

We are completely dumbfounded as to why you seem incapable of providing simple evidence for any of your characters but T-girl. You see, there is no way we are going to watch all of Xioulin Showdown just for the sake of the tournament. Sorry, we’re not. Just like we don’t expect you to read mistborn for the tournament. You ask us what you want to know, and if we can, we will provide evidence for it. We expect the same.

And regardless of what you might think, there is no way that “ten seconds of googling” can provide me evidence of the limitations of every talismen. Its simply not. Just like “Ten seconds of googling” can’t provide you pokemon information from every form of media, while limiting it to simply pokedex information. It is our job, and your job, to scour media that our characters appear in, and take information and show evidence of our character’s powers. We aren’t willing to do your homework for you. The fact that you did ours is irrelevant, because there is no way that you know all of Sazed’s or Wax’s uses of feruchimancy. That is my job. Just like it’s not our job to know all of Jade’s uses of the talismens. Thats your job.

Pidgeot

We thought you were using one of the canon versions of Pidgeot but now we see that you are using your own interpretation of Pidgeot which means he effectively is a feral bird.

Whoa dude, non canon? Of course he’s canon. Just not the form of canon you are used to using.

Its like Dragonborn. If you go by game mechanics, he is X strength. If you go by storyline, he is X strong. If you go by the lore, he is X strong. When debating, all of them are acceptable forms of characters. Or we could go starwars, there is movie, and there is EU. The same goes for pokemon. Anime, manga, game mechanics, and pokedex are different forms. We are using the pokedex version.

And when you think about it, this is the true cannon. This is what the creators themselves say about the characters. “THEY CAN DO THIS” “THEY CAN DO THAT” “THEY ARE THIS”, as opposed to inconsistent feats on a cartoon made for children.

So now that we are dealing with a Feral Pidgeot we can now completely debunk your entire prep strategy. Now since the rules do not ensure perfect teamwork or negate the character's personality, this means your untrained, uncaptured Pidgeot will have no desire to follow any commands given to it. It won't follow any strategies or obey any of your team unless they can capture it in a Pokeball. As none of your team have a Pokeball, your team will be completely unable to control Pidgeot. Heck, you can't even control it, it will be in control of its actions. So what will it do when in this environment? It will start hunting for tasty Magikarp as it is suggested in the lion share of the Pokedex information. So rather than hunting down our team member, it will be hunting and likely sleeping. Nothing in this environment that it can discern can ever hope to hurt it. So it'll get lazy and find a place to sleep after filling up on ridiculously easy to eat fish from the river. Upon falling asleep, Evil T-Girl can kill it without any issue. Had we known you were using a Pokedex entry as a character, we would have capitalized on that much earlier. Until you can show us proof that it would not act like this, then your Pidgeot is an extra crispy bucket of KFC.

Feral is such a harsh word, pokemon are rather intelligent, and most certainly sentient.

17:20: “Pokemon, by nature, are friendly creatures, and prefer cooperation to confrontation” - Showing how they are not unwilling to cooperate with little reason.

8:15: “Pokemon enjoy competition, but not only in battles.” - Showing they are battlers, just not 100% of the time.

Pidgeot will not only cooperate, but it will be willing to battle, stated by pokedex

This is a good example why we each do our own research on our own team. There is no way that in the time we have for the tournament you will become proficient on all of our characters. Instead, you ask relevant questions about a character’s feats/personality like this, we provide them. We ask about things, you should in turn provide evidence. THAT is how this works. Just like in a court case, we do everything we can to gain information for our side, and than let you handle your side, and let the judge decide. We won’t provide evidence for your side, just like a lawer won’t provide evidence for the opposing side. We will demand that you prove it. That is how this works. Yet all you’ve done is walk into court and say “You should already know what I’m going to say, and you’re stupid for not.”

As you asked for a combat speed feat, we would also like to see a combat speed feat from Pidgeot. All you have shown is that your Pidgeot can TRAVEL at Mach 2. Great Horned Owls and Golden Eagles are much slower than Peregrin Falcons and they still enjoy a healthy amount of Peregrin Falcons. Just so you know, Peregrin Falcons are the fastest animals on the planet. All you've shown is that your Pidgeot is a hyped up Peregrin Falcon. Well guess what, T-Girl is a Golden Eagle. Good luck producing that feat because it does not exist for your Pidgeot. At best your Pidgeot can cruise and dive at high speed, you have yet to show a combat feat for him.

You say that Pidgeot is Ruthless and that he has faced off against some really powerful Pokemon but you can't show me that because your Pidgeot has ZERO FEATS. You just neutered your bird into uselessness as there is nothing keeping it from just flying away.

Congratulations, you figured out that the “falcon” pokemon is like a falcon. *claps slowly*

Except it also says that it hunts at high speeds. But lets just say for a moment, for argument’s sake, that hes only going at mach 1 speed: That is still apparently too fast for your scout.

As for combat feats, the simple fact that it is a Pidgeot shows that it has combat experience. If you weren’t aware, thats how many pokemon evolve, and pidgey/pidgeotto are no exceptions.

As for the type of battles, as shown above, they will battle others in their own area for competitive purposes. One of the only known locations where wild Pidgeots appear is Mt. Mistral, and the other pokemon who reside there are:

Lets take a look into some of these

So, now it’s your turn. We have given our evidence, the instant you asked for it. Your turn. Show T-girl reacting to anything mach speed.

T-Girl

In each example I used of the Talismans power, it was the first time it was used in the show meaning no one had time to practice using it. Jade was shown to be the most tactically proficient user of the Talismans being the first one to figure out that Rooster + Rabbit = Flight. She also is the one who doles out the Talismans when they go into battle, making sure to optimize which of her allies gets the Talisman they need to be their best. Heck, when she was left without allies she was able to use her stuffed moose, her pet rooster and her pet pig to take down a powerful foe using Bat Shadowkahn. She has a pet bird and she has more than enough knowledge about bird physiology to bring down Pidgeot. She is by far the most dangerous part of the J-Team.

Please explain to me how “having a pet bird” implies knowledge of bird physiology? I have a cat, does that mean I’m a master of cat physiology? Because I wouldn’t know the specifics of how cat ballance works, I know that they have ballance. Just like how she wouldn’t know specifics of bird aerodynamics and flight, especially considering shes pretty young.

Here is her using the Rabbit, Rooster, and Tiger Talisman to take on Hsi Wu the Sky Demon, even outmaneuvering him. Check around 15:05 to see her totally making a Demon Sorceror look like a doofus. She has impressive control here and much improved reaction time. As I said, she gets better at using them over time.

I am going to assume there is a missing video here... can't make any comments on it without it. And although I know that he only appeared in season two, I don't have the time to really look through half the series to find one fight scene.

The Battle

I love how when I ask for MODERN MILITARY TACTICS you bring up WWII and WWI tactics from over 60 years ago. No modern military would ever use a trench because Artillery and Aircraft completely invalidate this tactic. Even in WWI it was a dated tactic because chemical weapons, tanks, and aircraft were starting to see some use. Our team is built around Artillery and Aircraft.

I trust you are aware that artillery made its debut in WWI right? And that it was completely useless? Or that British charged after a three day non-stop artillery strike and got massacred because it did absolutely nothing? Trench warfare was used, even after chemical warfare, because it was effective. Or, before that, castles. Really, this isn’t something unique to WWI, the side on the defensive ALWAYS has an advantage. 100% of the time.

And what modern war do you want to reference? WWII and WWI are the most recent wars that was really a full on war. Now, its guerrilla warfare. Not only that, but there hasn’t been a conflict between first world countries since (Unless I'm blanking hardcore). WWI and WWII are the most recent applicable wars.

The next thing I love is how you have your Protagonist move out to attack our illusions. None of them are real, he attacks them he opens himself up to being attacked by an Invisible Gorgon. As he is "totally pwning" our illusory Sweet Bots, he himself gets sliced in half by the Gorgon who was laying in wait.

I really find this funny. Did you even read your own post?

“With a telepathic link and Good T-Girl using the Sheep Talisman to scout during the battle, our team will have the advantage of constant knowledge about your team's location and movements. We'll start the match by having the groups spread out from each other, making their separate ways across the map to flanking positions. Gorgon's Aerial attack team will come in from the Northwest, Mister Negative's from the Southeast, the Ground attack team will move to a position in the Northeast, the Flanking team will make their way to the forest around the power station, and the decoy team will follow the river from our starting position. All will make sure to stay low and out of sight behind cover as much as possible.”

Gorgon is coming from the north west. The river is to the east. Plus, if he can't hit the first one, everyone will know they are illusions, and at the same time be on guard.

Also, the Snake turns anything that is being worn invisible. We see this clearly when Viper's close aren't visible and it has rendered belts, jewelry, glasses, and pretty much everything but what is in the person's hands. Much like most swordsmen, he doesn't draw his sword until he is using it. Once drawn, it will become visible but by that time it is too late. Anything that a Talisman touches can also be empowered. If he really needs to make the blade invisible as well, he can hold the Snake Talisman and Godkiller in the same hand making both invisible.

In character, would that really happen? No. He is arrogant and loves fights. Morals might be turned off, but not his personality. In fact, its debatable if he’d turn invisible at all. Now than, I posted this before, but I guess I’m going to have to post this again:

Clearly Oga>Jabberwock>Toujou>Supersonic sword. Gorgon’s sword is supersonic. Now, even making some adjustments for Gorgon’s superior skills, Oga>Gorgon seems very reasonable.

I really need to see a feat for Feruchemist Senses. You have said they have them and given the virtual dearth of information about them, there is nothing we have to go on. Also, according to your own rules for it, they can only store enough to keep them heightened to high levels for short periods of time. Our team knows your team very well, so they could easily just have Gorgon make you waste them before we attack. Heck, we could force you to waste all of their power by using illusions to continually bait them out. You are under siege at this point you dug in which means our team has free reign to do whatever they desire. Furthermore how do they know to use their super senses? You suggested earlier that because there are invisible guys in Halo that your team will know our team has invisibility. That makes zero sense since your team could gather no information on ours. Pidgeot even it were alive, would NEVER have detected T-Girl so how does your team find out? As your MC never sees or hears about our team's invisibility, he can't possibly predict that our team will be using invisibility. That is like receiving zero intel and assuming that you are facing off against nuclear terror zombies. It is not reasonable.

Yes, rather annoying isn’t it? When we don’t post feats? Just going to leave that there for now (As much as I hate to admit it, I only have the book on a kindle, and I can’t take screenshots of that, or scan it, and my phone has a atrocious camera… I promise to get feats up as soon as I can, AKA, as soon as I can get a decent camera)

Also, playing that game, how would you know our team “so well”? Its not like they are going to be showcasing all of their abilities in prep. In fact, not even the main character of mistborn, who lived with a Tarrisman keeper, knew of their abilities until Sazed used them. In fact, while doing last minute storing they will appear to be fragile, slower, and weaker than they truly are normally, let alone powered up, you’re scouts would never know the power these soldiers hold until it is much too late. As we will show, it is very in character to use a small amount of attributes as they simply walk, but not to the point that they can be detected. And as for the invisibility, if your scout is never once detected, it is going to be a possibility that comes up to someone who deals with it on a daily bases.

Water isn't air. Water has many different properties that air does not. Liquids are denser and fall according to gravity. I clearly stated that Omi would be building this wave while your team is fighting our illusory Sweet Bots. He wouldn't be just using the "Few Flaps" that Pidgeot would need according to you. The Orb of Tornami creates water and ice and the Kaijin Charm allows him to change the state from water to ice or ice to water and reshape it at will. Using the Orb of Tornami, he can create a dam on the river storing water and adding more via orb of Tornami. Then when he has gathered enough, he can release that like a flood. Think of it like the Ents releasing the dam in the Two Towers. They aren't manipulating the water so much as they are just taking advantage of its properties. He is not guiding it, he is just unleashing it. I may have mispoke when I suggested he would be freezing the entire wave, he'll only be freezing the water over your team as anything more would be ridiculous. Heck, given that you have electricity flowing through a fence, anyone on your team who can't take your own voltage will be fried. Only Oga likely survives and he can't win against our entire team. Flying Robots are immune to water on the ground.

Ok… So now you are going to make a dam. Now than. There are several very large issues with this.

1: We would notice the absence of the water.

2: That would have to be a very large, and very visible dam.

3: There is not a drop off into the river, so even if you do somehow manage to overcome the above, the flow would not build up like you expect, because it would flow out the side like this

4: The water at no point flows in the direction of the power plant.

Using only the properties of water, it is impossible to attack us with a dam, because of the nature of water. So, Omi is mindlessly splashing around in the water, doing absolutely nothing.

Our team is basically all flying or hovering, you think footsteps are a thing we will be leaving? Good luck convincing anyone of that.

Fine than. The Jet packs are rather loud, and good luck convincing anyone that we won’t notice those.

Then you suggest covering using dust? The Snake Talisman makes anything you are wearing invisible. If you are wearing dust, then it becomes invisible. At best, you'll have revealed Gorgon for a second before he recloaks with your dust on him. Sweet Tooth is flying invisible way above you so dust wouldn't be of any value.

We have already adressed both forms of invisibility. Gorgon wouldn’t be completely invisible, or else he would lose out on a fight, and he’d see no reason to. Your sweet bot is a freaking robot using a jetpack to hold it up. Either way, "Wearing Dust" is quite the fashion statement...

It is also hilarious that you think Manga Fighters are superior because "magic" when you have nothing to support that assertion. You also suggest that he has a natural talent for fighting and that his instincts are good which is complete bollocks. What you are seeing is the same thing that Vash the Stampede presents. They build up this image of incredulity so that people underestimate them, even readers like you. Heck, Jackie Chan beats people with fishes but that does not mean that he doesn't have a ridiculous amount of skill and training to make that possible. Oga wins because he is manipulating people constantly. What I mean by you have to fight with your mind is that you have to focus so much on something else that your mind is not concentrating on the fight. Wolverine was able to pull this trick off once and was only able to do so because he has experience fighting telepaths. Show me a telepathy resistance feat for Oga, when you can't I'll accept that Gorgon slices him to bits. Gorgon is one of those few Comic Characters that can make the majority of manga street level fighters look like so much trash.

Couple things here: *Overestimate, *Gorgon. Now than, Oga’s fighting related instincts:

This is him, after a single day of practice, using an ancient skill, by “making it up as he went along”. What else do you want? Him completely embarrassing someone who can slice through cement walls with a wooden sword through skill alone? I already posted that. Oga beating people far more physically capable than him? Like say… Beating fully matured, armed thugs with a body that is less than that of an infant?

You seem to, despite, the ample amount of evidence, believe that Oga is incapable of holding his own in a high level fight. Let me ask you this, if evidence won’t convince you, what will? If the answer is nothing… What are you doing here?

One more thing, Omi's Emperor Scorpion gives us absolute control over any Wu. If your team picks one up, Omi can kill you with it.

Do they need to be in line of sight? Because last time I checked Omi was playing in the water a half mile away. Throw us a bone here, give us the limits of what your characters can do. I think we were pretty fair about that.

Sorry I couldn't make enough time for the entire post, it was fun, may the best team win ^.^

#11 Posted by SuperDrummer (778 posts) - - Show Bio
#12 Posted by Stupid_People (1248 posts) - - Show Bio

@superdrummer: @esquire @diredrill I posted this Thursday but it has just come to my attention that it did not post. I had alot of it saved but still had to add the scans and write all my last minute not saved work before re posting.

Summary

Scouting:

No matter how reluctant you may be to accepting our version of Pidgeot, he is by Pokedex definition a mach 2 threat, whether you like it or not. An obstacle you have refused time and time again to combat with feats from T-Girl proving her ability to see mach speed opponents, let alone engage them. From your performance, it is blatantly obvious Pidgeot will survive, and along with the language barrier down, you will have no choice in his scouting of your area, evil T-Girl will never see a feather. Your Good T-Girl on the other hand will scout us, there is no doubt in that aided by her invisibility which will also be her saving grace from a giant bird induced death. But as said before, she will see little of our crew aside from potential sniper positions, frail appearing Terrismen, and a bunch of bored superhumans. After Pidgeot returns, he will report the suspicious amount of nothing he had seen in his days, leading to the strong possibility of invisibility, which would make Chief recommend the team be even more observant and give them advice on how to fight invisible enemies.

Battle:

Your prefered strategy of attack, while flashy, has been pretty easily broken down with your inferior soldiers being your downfall coupled with your blatant underestimation of our team sending your sweetbots on a silver platter right into our very anti-vehicle hands, invisible or not.

Sweet bots are useless against the majority of our team and can/will be swiftly turned to scrap by our underestimated terrismen’s abilities. Their Enhanced senses will give away any movement by your jetpack wearing soldiers, leading to a swift crushing through weight or strength alike.

Can see clear across the city to Tin gate and even see the effectiveness of arrows on individual Koloss. Can see that the ones that fall are smaller than the others even from a great distance.
Able to see past a city and at least a km further to see individual Koloss in the distance and even identify what they are carrying.
Able to speed blitz a metahuman enemy and successfully integrate weight, strength, and speed while fighting. But ours will not have this large amount of speed so they will be somewhat slower.
Able to crush an 11ft monsters neck and throw it like a doll at a horde of even more of these beasts, with enough force to knock them back no less.
The extent of weight gain. They can also draw weight to the same extent. Keyword in the scan: Heavy as a building, then heavier.

^Fruchemency senses, strength, speed, and weight feats, keep in mind the one doing most of these is a knowledge seeker, and has stated multiple times he is no warrior. He was even a pacifist for a majority of his life.

<----- The beasts he is killing. They grow up to ~11-12 feet tall of complete muscle.

Your Skrull’s shapeshifting abilities will be of little use in our rocky and dirt surrounded powerplant and any animal life would never hope to get close enough for an attack. They will be hastily sniped upon advance. Even if they have survived the bullet (have yet to see the speed of their organ movement so unlikely) the mere whim of the Protagonist will toss them around like ragdolls.

Omi and your plans to use water to assault us is widely out of the scope of the limits and your dam idea has held up just as strong as the first little piggy’s house from the big bad wolf. So, while you are having one of your champions playing around in the water, the rest of the fight will continue, than he will have to solo the surviving members. And with your record 0 showings on his combat ability, speed, and strength, he has been rendered practically fodder. Bravo.

The shadowkhan have been a very neglected portion of your argument. But there is nothing I have seen from “5 seconds of googling” that suggests they can withstand .50 cal shots nor the multiple tons of force they will receive from a terrismen or Protagonists fist reaching them in the sky. In fact, a simple ice ball or fireball which destroy and freeze small cars on impact should suffice against your large and very noticeable giant bats.

Neither of our meat-shields have been explored much in this debate, what a shame.

Now, Gorgon, the most dangerous on your roster by far, is countered by Oga, our most powerful member by far. Their abilities are close, however, Oga should be able to stall long enough for the protagonist to assist him, or, win. His invisibility, is rather out of his character, so even with morals off, his personality would indicate that he at least has his blade visible (if he even can make it invisible, I’m not sure that the turtle (the only non-humanoid thing that we see using it.) is the same as a sword.)

Killer Croc, will be watching and helping anyone he feels needs it.

So, this is how this battle will playing out given your original battle plan:

1. You send in a decoy sweetbot as planned right into the center to draw our attention. Protagonists first thought is fireball when it opens up, but it is quickly realized that it is merely an illusion. They then send a terrismen, telling him to rely on his hearing and sight: both of which discover the true bots location by jetpack noise and air displacement given off by the hovering. It is then crushed like the bug it truly is in any manner already mentioned in previous posts. And as you hopefully remember, T-girl resides in this bot, so along with its destruction comes her’s.

2. Your Skrull and robots advancing at the time are then met with .50 cal fire for suppression, followed up by Pidgeot using double team (creating after images) and then using divebomb maneuvers to massacre the force. The non invisible sweet bot is then met with our free terrisman and suffers a similar fate as its companion.

3. While this is happening your airstrike will be commence, with Mr. Negative and the shaokahn. The Protagonist, who is simply waiting for an enemy to combat at this point meets them with car destroying fireballs and iceballs, an attack your fodder bats have shown no such damage resistance. Those who are lucky enough to survive the blasts will be greeted with his superpowered fist in the sky where all but Negative will be one shotted. He will then combat him 1 on 1, and since you have effectively made him a featless character he will be killed as such with little problem. You cant tell us we're underestimating if zero feats were ever presented, so not our problem.

4. Your now very alone Gorgon will then enter and will make his presence known by Oga after drawing his sword on the battlefield. The closest battle of the debate will then commence, where Oga will hold his own until he is aided by the now open Protagonist or Pidgeot, and in a 2 on one with a floating sword, Gorgon will fall. Invisible or not.

Now, if you chose to have Invisible Gorgon arrive with the bot and T-Girl instead, then the battle commences as follows:

The Terrisman will approach as normally instructed and be killed. Too bad for you, he will not fall fast enough for the bot nor T-Girl inside to survive, as not only will Gorgon not suspect his speed, but the location of the bot will be so obvious he will fall in seconds, committing child abuse at the same time. His death will immediately draw Oga's attention with the floating bloodied sword. He will then stall Gorgon next to our Extremely high voltage fence until backup arrives. One nice touch, have you seen the size of the reactor? With its current in the fence if Oga is struck while touching it (he will be as often as possible) say hello to a VERY dead and mutilated Gorgon. But either way you will be lucky if Oga needs help or the fence to win that battle, but with all these advantages I can assure you Oga will win, one way or another.

5. Omi meanwhile, while all this is going on, is going to be at the river side, trying and failing to control the flow of water to the point of being any use. However, being the dedicated and persistent hero he is, he won’t give up, and will continue to try to complete his job until the battle is long over, and he will than have to face the wrath of our team. For info on exactly why your dam will never work see Drummers last post.

"No matter how you approach, you still have to fight us, and we will win the fight."

Was true the day it was written, and is still true this day. This was fun guys, I really enjoyed it, but...

#13 Edited by Jokergeist (4935 posts) - - Show Bio