#1 Edited by Wardemon32 (3970 posts) - - Show Bio

Esquire vs Sovereign91001

Round 1:

Location:

This battle takes place in a city desert and is not limited to out the outside but the inside(Closest pyramid) also which includes things such as; explosives enough to blow up city, 3 technological shields as durable as adamantium but only last 1 minute, and 2 teleporters that can only be used twice within battle.

These weapons can only be aquired during the battle so it cannot be taken up within prep time.

Rules:

  • Only canon feats allowed
  • No BFR
  • Win by Death, KO, or Incaptitation
  • Both teams bloodlusted
  • Standard Equipment
  • Both teams get 1 hour prep and has basic knowledge of each other. So there's no knowing their enemies weakness automatically unless ofcourse they actually do know their enemies weakness.
  • No throwing insults at eachother and fighting over petty things. If there's a problem Wardemon and Oceanmaster would come and try to regulate anything.
  • Starts off 500 meters apart
  • No Hax Items such as HOTU, IG, Worlogog, etc....
  • If someone doesn't reply within 3 days they forefit and voting starts

Team @esquire

  • Despero
  • Wally West
  • Matthew Tyler
  • Alan Scott
  • Dr. Doom

vs.

Team @sovereign91001

  • Dr. Fate(Kent Nelson Post-Crisis)
  • Kyle Rayner
  • Superman 1,000,000(Kal Kent)
  • Wave Rider
  • Jean Grey(Dark Pheonix)
#2 Posted by dondave (33389 posts) - - Show Bio

This should be good

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#3 Edited by Esquire (3826 posts) - - Show Bio

@sovereign91001

Prep

I have Doctor Doom, arguably the greatest prep master in all of comics. In addition, I have Matthew Tyler, arguably the greatest Time Manipulator in all of comics. In addition, I have Wally West, arguably the greatest speedster in all of comics. So speed lend + time manipulation means I essentially have infinite prep for Doom. So...yeah.

Hourman and Alan will have lots of knowledge on Doc Fate and Kyle, Hourman will have knowledge on Supes, and Doom should have knowledge on Phoenix. I don't think any of my characters have had run-ins with Waverider, so he'll be an unknown quantity.

Doom's signature strategy is power-stealing. He's done it to Silver Surfer, Galactus, and even the Beyonder. He has a good grasp on the way things like that are done, and he has a loooong time to do it here. With Wally's ability to calculate a billion things a nanosecond, further amped by Hourman's time manipulation, and Despero who is a genius intellect and strategist in his own right, he'll have a relatively easy time making things work.

Alan Scott and Doom are both very powerful and experienced in magical arts, and with Doom's prep and Alan and Hourman's knowledge of Fate, Victor can siphon off Fate's magical energies to amp himself and Alan. He'll build telepathic reflectors and blockers for all of my team, which he's done in the past, and he'll build a device to siphon Phoenix energy. He'll make one more siphoning device to steal Lantern Energy. While this is going on, Hourman will return to his native 853rd century and look up info on Waverider. Skeets had little trouble beating Wave Rider to a pulp and stealing his skin, so Doom will make energy weapons in the same vein as Skeets', using information Hourman brings back from the 853rd century. He'll arm each of my characters with these blasters.

Battle

Hourman will open the battle by accelerating Superman 1,000,000's pace in time. He weakens in a matter of a hours when away from the Super Sun of the 853rd century, so Tyler will accelerate him in time, causing him to lose his superpowers immediately. Here he accelerates Rick Tyler to the end of his Power Hour. He'll also amp my character's speeds by changing the relative paces in time of our characters, making mine seem much faster.

Bloodlusted Wally will speedblitz at millions of times the speed of light, speedstealing each of your characters before punching each of them characters harder than Superman several thousand times and then vibrating through them so they explode from the inside out. Doom will activate his power siphons, draining Fate, Kyle, and Jean. Alan will smash any characters who survive with high-powered constructs and Despero will mindrape them while smashing them with his massive physical power. If all of our magic attacks, physical attacks, and energy attacks somehow fail to put someone down, Hourman will de-age them to an infant and we'll kill them when they're most vulnerable.

#4 Edited by New_World_Order (12323 posts) - - Show Bio

Esquire's team is so beast.

#5 Edited by Funsiized (3571 posts) - - Show Bio
#6 Posted by Sovereign91001 (3958 posts) - - Show Bio

@esquire:

I have Waverider who can manipulate and freeze time as well as take my team outside of time so prep is going to be no problem for my team either.

So first things first I'm gonna have Kyle duplicate his ring and Jean use her telepathy to info dump Kyle's mastery of the emotional spectrum into every memeber of my team so I'll have five master level White Lantern's. From there it's simple a simple matter to use the White Lantern rings to enhance all of my guys power levels as they all can absorb energy to amplify there powers.

As a Linear man Waverider has access to information about all of Earth's superheroes and their futures so getting info about all of your team minus doom is no problem, Jean should have some knowledge of Doom and the Phoenix's celestial knowledge should help as well so my team will have full info on your team. Next Waverider will procuer a set of motherboxes for my team, a technology that he is familar with then once again using his knowledge as a Linear Man he will procure Cobalt Blue's gem and Doctor Fate will use his knowlesge of mysticsim to mimic it's properties and create a Speed Force draining zone around the battlefield negating Wally's speed. For his last act he will secure a set of the Linear Men's time travel devices, Jean will info dump how to use them, granting every memeber of my team time travel abilities and the ability to move outside of time, Finally Jean will telepathically shield my team.

Moving onto the battle, with his Speed force energies drained Wally should go down first, my teams Motherboxes should easily neutralize Doom's armor and any machines he's made as well as further amplify my characters abilities, Fate or any member of my team should be able to drain Alan of his Star Heart energies with their White Lantern rings.

Kal Kent should be able to easily out muscle Despero, he may even be able to hypnotize him.

Hourman will likely be the last one to go down, but our motherboxes could disable him or my team could jump ahead 1 hour when his time manipulation abilites are kaput and take him out then.

And if all that fails I'll have Fate and or Jean use their molecular manipulation and turn your team into stones or something. Or my team phases in and out of time and attacks yours from where they can't be reached and are immune to any tampering to their timelines.

#7 Posted by dondave (33389 posts) - - Show Bio

Both sides have presented awesome starters. This is looking very good

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#8 Posted by New_World_Order (12323 posts) - - Show Bio
#9 Edited by Esquire (3826 posts) - - Show Bio

@sovereign91001: @oceanmaster21 @wardemon32

After reading through the LSSH vs OMGWTF thread, there seem to have been some rules applied to time manipulators. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like

  1. No stopping or slowing time during prep, only traveling through time.
  2. One hour of total prep activities by your team, so if they go back 50 years during prep, they can only spend an hour there.
  3. No time traveling during the battle, you must stay in the same time period.

Also, I'm not sure it's fair to retrieve Cobalt Blue's gem. If you get to do that, then everything becomes fair game, and I can use Wally's speed to grab every artifact on the planet, magical and otherwise, that falls within the limits. He's covered every inch of Earth in under a second before, so he can take a shrinking gun -- like the one Fantomex stole from Doom -- and a plastic bag, and carry all of the powerful artifacts on the planet back to Doom in a matter of seconds. If you're okay with that then let's go for it, but I'm of the opinion that prep should be limited to only things your characters actually have access to or can build from scratch. Cobalt Blue's gem would not fall under those limits.

#10 Edited by Wardemon32 (3970 posts) - - Show Bio

@esquire:

Yeah I read what you did with Flash and I thought i was an amazing idea. Instead of just going back and fourth in time to build whatever which isn't really fair. And yea you can get the gem. I'll be sure to impliment the rules in round 2 since it's kind of to late for that now or should we do it now? Thanks though

#11 Posted by oceanmaster21 (7621 posts) - - Show Bio

@wardemon32: no let them do the time thing n fix it during round 2 yes his flash can do it i like this its very interesting

#12 Edited by Sovereign91001 (3958 posts) - - Show Bio

@esquire: So where do we go now? I mean I could do the same thing with Waverider. Vanishing Point exists in the last moment before the Universe ends so time travelling and getting any object in the DCU from the begining of time all the way up to the Universe's dying breath (as long as it doesn't break the rules) is in my teams power as well... especially after he gets those time travelling devices for my entire team, I'll have five people capable of navagating the time stream picking up gear. Kal has like a twelfth level Braniac intellect and with his enhanced perception and speed (he was stated on panel being able to calculate billions of scenario's at the same time) creating and making devices at super speed is something I could do as well.

#13 Posted by Esquire (3826 posts) - - Show Bio

@sovereign91001: Yeah, that's why I wanted prep limited to only things you can build. But even then, it kind of becomes "build anything you need to win" since we both have superspeed geniuses. Want to make limits, just so we can actually have a debate? What if we limit prep to, say, 2 non-created items (Can be things you have previously used or not) and 3 created devices? (You can have multiple of the same, so you can still make 4 lantern rings or retrieve 5 suits and they only count as one thing each.) Does that sound like a reasonable compromise, so we can actually have a good debate?

#14 Posted by Sovereign91001 (3958 posts) - - Show Bio

@esquire: Sounds good. I agree that it's not so fun having a bunch of 'I win' buttons, so a few limitations would be good for the sake of the debate as well as the interest in having a bit of fun.

#15 Edited by Sovereign91001 (3958 posts) - - Show Bio

@esquire: You can start...er restart us off if you'd like.

#16 Edited by Wardemon32 (3970 posts) - - Show Bio
#17 Edited by Esquire (3826 posts) - - Show Bio

@sovereign91001

Prep:

Hourman will retrieve the Quantum Bands and give them to Wally, who will use his superspeed to train with them for the equivalent of decades. Hourman will then retrieve the Soulsword, which Doctor Doom has stolen and used in the past. Doom will use some of his superspeed prep to enhance the effects of the Soulsword thanks to his magical mastery and overall genius.

Doom will create Telepathic Blocker/Reflectors, which is something he's made in the past so should be easy for him to amp. He'll create a Phoenix Absorber modeled after the devices he's used to absorb the powers of Galactus, Silver Surfer, a Watcher, and even the Beyonder. The basic version he has built into his armor was able to absorb the power of Franklin Richards, so with a few years of relative prep time, the Phoenix should be no issue.

And finally, he'll build a replicas of Wally's Quantum Bands and give them to each of my characters, who will use borrowed speed to train with them.

#18 Posted by Sovereign91001 (3958 posts) - - Show Bio

@esquire

Okay we'll start it off with Waverider and Fate going to Vanashing point and get information (the whole career of your team members including detailed fights that gave them trouble and information about any tech/artifacts pertaining to said conflicts minus Doom) then using the archive's they'll journey back for the Ibistick, this powerful artifact will give jump Fate's magic power up to the tournaments ceiling. Then they will secure a set of motherboxes for each member of my team.

While this is happening Jean will use her mind to scan Kyle and learn how to manipulate the entire emotional spectrum. Kyle will duplicate 4 rings My team will arrive and using his Super speed and intellect Kal will memorize the entire contents of Waverider's information.

Jean then info dumps the contents of Waverider's knowledge, her own Cosmic knowledge on Doom and Kyle's to my entire team. Using said Knowledge Fate uses the Ibistick to mimic the properties of Colbolt Blue's Gem over the entire battlefield.

Finally my team slips on their Lantern Rings.

Created Device's: White Lantern Rings

Non-Created Device's: Ibistick, Motherboxes.

#19 Posted by Wardemon32 (3970 posts) - - Show Bio
#20 Posted by Esquire (3826 posts) - - Show Bio

@sovereign91001:

When the battle starts, my team will use their Quantum Bands to drain all the energy from the battlefield and from your team. They've got absolutely obscene energy draining feats, such as draining entire stars, a Watcher, and absorbing blasts from Phoenix. This should take out your White Lantern Rings, as well as your Mother Boxes. They can also drain Kal Kent's super-sun energy, or Hourman can accelerate his natural power loss as detailed in my first post. Quasar alone was able to hold off Dark Phoenix for a while, so with 5 beings who have practiced with the Quantum Bands for relative centuries, she shouldn't pose much threat even before Doom's power-drain device turns her strength into his own.

Doctor Doom has the amped Soulsword, which has the ability to disrupt magic spells. Backed by his formidable magic abilities and Alan Scott, he should be able to disrupt Doctor Fate's anti-Speed Force spell, returning Wally to his usual levels of dominance. West can then speedsteal, phase, and IMP your team to oblivion, as was the original plan.

With Phoenix, Kent, and Kyle totally drained, this leaves Waverider and Fate up against my whole team. Scott and Doom combined can go toe-to-toe with Fate's magical prowess, especially with Doom's Soulsword messing up Fate's spells. Flash and Hourman should be able to take down Waverider, what with Hourman being an incredible time-manipulator and Flash being a ridiculously powerful character. Despero can use his TP and massive physical stats to wreak havoc against both Fate and Waverider.

#21 Posted by beatboks1 (6948 posts) - - Show Bio

Damn, such great starts and then no reply by Sovereign

#22 Posted by Sovereign91001 (3958 posts) - - Show Bio

@wardemon32: I'm sorry I forgot about this :( Is it too late to get a post up?

#23 Edited by Wardemon32 (3970 posts) - - Show Bio
#24 Posted by Esquire (3826 posts) - - Show Bio

@wardemon32: @sovereign91001: I would be more than happy to debate some more. The notifications being down messed everything up.

#25 Posted by Thedarklordpandamonium (4825 posts) - - Show Bio

Daaaaaaaaaaaaaamn and I thought MY prep was over the top.

#26 Edited by Sovereign91001 (3958 posts) - - Show Bio

@esquire: Cool thanks :)

I spent about 5 hours working on a post in another match and I just got it up, I'm going to crash for a bit and I'll have something up a bit later today.

#27 Edited by Ancient_0f_Days (11384 posts) - - Show Bio

my god....Hourman, Doom and Flash ..... that's just unholy.

#28 Posted by dondave (33389 posts) - - Show Bio

my god....Hourman, Doom and Flash ..... that's just unholy.

QFT

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#29 Edited by Sovereign91001 (3958 posts) - - Show Bio

@esquire said:

@sovereign91001:

When the battle starts, my team will use their Quantum Bands to drain all the energy from the battlefield and from your team. They've got absolutely obscene energy draining feats, such as draining entire stars, a Watcher, and absorbing blasts from Phoenix. This should take out your White Lantern Rings, as well as your Mother Boxes. They can also drain Kal Kent's super-sun energy, or Hourman can accelerate his natural power loss as detailed in my first post. Quasar alone was able to hold off Dark Phoenix for a while, so with 5 beings who have practiced with the Quantum Bands for relative centuries, she shouldn't pose much threat even before Doom's power-drain device turns her strength into his own.

Doctor Doom has the amped Soulsword, which has the ability to disrupt magic spells. Backed by his formidable magic abilities and Alan Scott, he should be able to disrupt Doctor Fate's anti-Speed Force spell, returning Wally to his usual levels of dominance. West can then speedsteal, phase, and IMP your team to oblivion, as was the original plan.

With Phoenix, Kent, and Kyle totally drained, this leaves Waverider and Fate up against my whole team. Scott and Doom combined can go toe-to-toe with Fate's magical prowess, especially with Doom's Soulsword messing up Fate's spells. Flash and Hourman should be able to take down Waverider, what with Hourman being an incredible time-manipulator and Flash being a ridiculously powerful character. Despero can use his TP and massive physical stats to wreak havoc against both Fate and Waverider.

Okay let's get started with this.

I had to do a bit of reading about the Quantam Bands (because I'm not an expert) on them and the source I read said that they have a few vulnerabilites

What Are Quasar's Specific Vulnerabilities?

Quasar is vulnerable to all energy outside the electromagnetic spectrum:

  • Magic. He cannot absorb it, he cannot resist it. Magic can bind him, magicians can even take over his mind. A bolt of magic will penetrate his force field. However, an enchanted physical object will only be as strong as the object itself would otherwise be: while his forcefield could resist an adamantium blade, the Black Knight's magical ebony blade would be able to slice through Quasar's best quantum shield like tissue. Fortunately, magicians have no control over the energies he manipulates so he should be able to slam an energy construct through a mystical shield of Seraphim, for instance.
  • Extradimensional energy. Q is susceptible to all persons using Darkforce (Shroud, Darkstar, Black Mamba, Quagmire). His q-bands cannot create constructs to hold or resist the dark stuff. The Darkforce penetrates his energy like it wasn't even there.
  • Kinetic energy, the energy of motion. No defense against someone manipulating it psionically (which is why Maelstrom overwhelmed him so easily). He can however resist the effects of something imbued with kinetic energy--a thrown knife has kinetic energy, but if Q sees it coming he can put up a shield to stop the knife despite its kinetic force.
  • Psionic energy. A psionic blast will cut through his quantum constructs like papier mache'. Fortunately, most psionic manipulators are susceptible to the energies he employs, so they're even.
  • Matter manipulation. Foes who manipulate matter, psionically or otherwise, he cannot muck with. He deals with energy not matter. The Molecule Man, Sersi, Phoenix, Her, and the Silver Surfer, among others, affect matter in a way he cannot. Her, Sersi, and the Surfer use cosmic energy to do so, however, and he could stop the cosmic energy though not undo anything wrought to matter by that cosmic energy.

I have three (possibly four) of those weaknesses on my team: Waverider, Jean, Fate and Kyle

Psionic: Jean

Extradimensional Energy: Kyle and all the White Lantern Rings, The Motherboxes (They channel the power of the Source) Waverider's chronal energy

Magic: Fate

Matter Manipulation: Fate and Jean

Jean has very high levels of matter manipulation

In her words "Total Telekinetic control over matter" (It should include energy as she said she transmuted the sun's energy)

So when your team starts to drain my teams various energy devices and characters (which should honestly take a bit of time considering the vast energy stores we're talking about)

Non Dark Phoenix Jean alone can power stargates and in her Dark Phoenix form could hold the energy of at least a star.

All Jean has to do is reach out and push a few molocules around and turn your Quantam Bands into Rubber, rendering them inert; I'm sure you can get a bit of energy but not enough to slow my team down in any significent way. If that doesn't work with the other vulnerabilites I could shut down the Quantam Bands early before they can do too much damage.

The motherboxes use their remaining energy to nuetralize Doom's Machines.

The Ibistick is similar to your Quantam Bands as it can channel nearly endless energy; in this case though the energy is magical. While Post Crisis Kent Nelson was lacking in power due to age he and Nabu both had extensive knowledge of magic, so I've married all that knowledge to a source of power capable of fully using it. Fate can magically turn your team into birds as the (weaker) Hector Hall did with a spell of Nabu's making.

The Ibistick should likewise be capable of disenchanting your soul sword.

I should be able to not only keep the effect of the Colbolt Blue's gem in place but completely drain Wally of his Speed Force powers at the start of the battle.

Should any of that not work my team will engage whoever is left on your team.

Kal Kent should be able to speed blitz Despero and or nuetralize him with his force vision.

Waverider with whatever's left of his White Lantern Ring charges can take out Hourman.

Dark Phoenix goes up against Alan Scott; telekinetically pulling the Starheart from his body and or transmuting him. With the knowledge taken from Vanishing Point she would know about the vulnerability to wood and can use it to her advantage.

Fate should be able to overpower Doom but Kyle can back him up if need be.

Depowered Wally is left for last, gets knocked out and that should do it.

#30 Posted by Sovereign91001 (3958 posts) - - Show Bio
#31 Edited by Thedarklordpandamonium (4825 posts) - - Show Bio

Scared AF of both of these teams

#32 Posted by Wardemon32 (3970 posts) - - Show Bio

@esquire:

Can you still debate or are you too busy?

#33 Posted by Esquire (3826 posts) - - Show Bio
#34 Edited by Thedarklordpandamonium (4825 posts) - - Show Bio
#35 Posted by Wardemon32 (3970 posts) - - Show Bio
#36 Posted by beatboks1 (6948 posts) - - Show Bio

Leaning to sovereign JUST. Great argument by both

#37 Posted by mightyrearranger (1414 posts) - - Show Bio

I was really sold on Esquire's team until Sovereign's last post. Now I'm on the fence...

#38 Posted by New_World_Order (12323 posts) - - Show Bio
#39 Edited by New_World_Order (12323 posts) - - Show Bio

Call me when voting starts, I'm just really eager for round 2.

#40 Posted by beatboks1 (6948 posts) - - Show Bio

I was really sold on Esquire's team until Sovereign's last post. Now I'm on the fence...

Yeah, that last one was what took me from Esquire to Just being on soveriegn's side of the argument. It's DAMN close though

#41 Posted by mightyrearranger (1414 posts) - - Show Bio
#42 Posted by oceanmaster21 (7621 posts) - - Show Bio
#43 Posted by Sovereign91001 (3958 posts) - - Show Bio

@mightyrearranger: it's up to @esquire, if he's done posting I guess so. He was kind enough to let me post after a few days so I'll wait until he gives the yay or nay.

#44 Posted by mightyrearranger (1414 posts) - - Show Bio

@mightyrearranger: it's up to @esquire, if he's done posting I guess so. He was kind enough to let me post after a few days so I'll wait until he gives the yay or nay.

Yeah, that makes sense. I'm tempted to vote, but he does deserve a chance to counter.

@oceanmaster21: Do you guys have next round's matchups lined up already since this is the last battle of Round 1?

#45 Edited by Sovereign91001 (3958 posts) - - Show Bio
#46 Posted by Esquire (3826 posts) - - Show Bio

@sovereign91001: I wish I wasn't so busy and could give you a better debate, but I've made you wait long enough. We can open to votes if you're ready.

#47 Posted by New_World_Order (12323 posts) - - Show Bio

This is hard. Sovereign's last post swayed it to him.

#48 Posted by mightyrearranger (1414 posts) - - Show Bio

I think I'll vote for @sovereign91001 here too, though it pains me to vote when Esquire didn't get a last word in. Either of you would made for interesting debates in Round 2. :)

#49 Posted by Thedarklordpandamonium (4825 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah, it...I mean I have to give it to Sov, I think Esquire could have probably finished a last post but idk.

Though really, these are probably the two strongest teams in the tournament. I mean, they had to LIMIT THEMSELVES in prep so they wouldn't become omnipotent! D:!