#1 Posted by Wardemon32 (4152 posts) - - Show Bio

Dccomicsrule2011 vs Beatboks1

Round 1:

Location:

This battle takes place in a city desert and is not limited to out the outside but the inside(Closest pyramid) also which includes things such as; explosives enough to blow up city, 3 technological shields as durable as adamantium but only last 1 minute, and 2 teleporters that can only be used twice within battle.

These weapons can only be aquired during the battle so it cannot be taken up within prep time.

Rules:

  • Only canon feats allowed
  • No BFR
  • Win by Death, KO, or Incaptitation
  • Both teams bloodlusted
  • Standard Equipment
  • Both teams get 1 hour prep and has basic knowledge of each other. So there's no knowing their enemies weakness automatically unless ofcourse they actually do know their enemies weakness.
  • No throwing insults at eachother and fighting over petty things. If there's a problem Wardemon and Oceanmaster would come and try to regulate anything.
  • Starts off 500 meters apart
  • No Hax Items such as HOTU, IG, Worlogog, etc....
  • If someone doesn't reply within 3 days they forefit and voting starts

Team @dccomicsrule2011

  • Luke Skywalker (Star Wars EU)
  • Hal Jordan (SA version)
  • Superman (SA version)
  • Emperor Palpatine (Star Wars EU)
  • Superboy-Prime

vs.

Team @beatboks1

  • Ultra Humanite
  • Brainwave Snr
  • Mordru (20th century)
  • Per Degaton
  • Obsidian

#2 Posted by beatboks1 (7221 posts) - - Show Bio

Not sure why but I didn't get tagged on this one. so

@dccomicsrule2011 hope this works

I have my opponent at a slight disadvantage.

First Ultra Humanite was the first super scientific Genius enemy of GA superman so is intimately acquainted with Superman's weaknesses. He's built Kryptonite rays before and wont have much trouble cobbling one together in an hour. That combined with having one of DC's most powerful mystics on my team means I have SA superman's weaknesses covered quite nicely.

Second Per Degaton is also intimately familiar with Earth Prime. One of his time manipulations ( one that gave him world power) was to steal missiles from the 60's Cuban crisis from Earth Prime and use them against the powers that be on E-2's 1940's. With Ultra's knowledge of Superman it wouldn't be hard to simply extrapolate where SBP comes from and the instant the battle start Degaton travels to the point in time in the prime universe that SBP launches for earth and diverts him to another red sun planet. It means I start out the battle one down but instants after it starts one of your team blink out of existence. Even if it takes a while for him to blink out he can easily be countered by Obsidian. SBP has an irrational fear of the dark because it can sap his solar energy and Obsidian is Dark. plus his ability to show the darker things within you to his opponents means he can throw SBP's other fears in his face easily.

So very soon after the match starts it's going to be Luke, Palpatine and Hal vs my entire team. Palpatine is arguably your strongest player ( Luke to far behind) but the fact that there is a history between them of animosity also plays into my hand. I have two of the most powerful TPers in fiction. Brainwave has Telepathically made the Spectre leave for places unknown whilst implanting suggestions in the entire JSA when he was a neophyte and no where near his latter power levels. In All Star in the 60's he telepathically made the entire planet see what he wanted them to see, and has mind raped the entire JSA ( including "Classic Dr Fate") with relative ease. Ultra has controlled several heroes from another dimension, Telepathically communicated with himself over several decades and matched Brainwave in TP battle. Combine that with Obsidian's ability to take the darkness within a soul and cast it back on it's owners view and it should be child's play to make Luke and Palpatine suspect each other of a double cross and work against themselves or out right fight amongst themselves.

Then I have Mordru, a character who has defeated Shazam in his place of power when Mordru himself was weakened and Shazam was amped. Who has defeated and killed many Lords of Order and Chaos. Who has taken the power of Dr fate from him, the Power of the Starheart from Alan Scot. Who was about to drink from the speed force from Jay Garrick until interrupted. Mordru isn't more powerful than any of those he defeated, he is just a magical energy leach who can match anyone by drawing on the very power of the one he fights. He should easily be able to draw on the power of the force within Luke and Palpatine to should their power be too much for his own magic on it's own.

That pretty much just leaves Hal. SA Hal with a weak-o-laimo weakness of the color yellow. My team may not know that weakness but seriously Hal wont keep it from TPers this strong for long and once they know he's toast. Especially when you consider it took the combined power of Martian Manhunter, Guy Gardner and Superman to match Ultra in one time line.

Scans available for all this to support if required.

#3 Posted by dccomicsrule2011 (24808 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1: Ha, nice opening move I will have my rebutal up tomorrow.

#4 Edited by beatboks1 (7221 posts) - - Show Bio

Ultra Humanite

history vs Superman

Ultra has been battling it out with the man of steel since 1940/41. S/He?it is well aware of all Superman's powers and weaknesses.

A master of many fields of science he created diseases, perfected brain transplants in the 40's. Built death rays, force fields, teleporters, and devices that affect the cosmic balance, controlled volcanoes.

Gaining mental power

He sought out and acquired talismans of vast power and incorporated that power into his own mind to give him his vast mental powers.

The power stone embedded in his brain gave him mental power that allowed him to easily match the likes of Superman and Alan Scot

He obtained other talismans over the years and sought to obtain even more power.

Gaining physical power

His mental power not enough he eventually genetically altered an ape body to make it as physically formidable as he was mentally ( both in intellect and mental powers).

A body powerful enough to mix it with Superman, smack Powergirl around and take the combined physical power of Superman, Martian Manhunter and Guy Gardner to to fight him

Brainwave

Mental giant. able to telepathically make Spectre do his will while commanding others

Even as a novice with his power not fully developed BW was able to TP fool the spectre.

He could cast powerful images with his mind that were three dimensional and real in every way and lethal as if they were real

More to come

#5 Edited by dondave (37384 posts) - - Show Bio

This is looking good

#6 Posted by dccomicsrule2011 (24808 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1:

I have my opponent at a slight disadvantage.

We shall see about that xD

First Ultra Humanite was the first super scientific Genius enemy of GA superman so is intimately acquainted with Superman's weaknesses.

That's cool.

He's built Kryptonite rays before and wont have much trouble cobbling one together in an hour.

Those rays would not do you much good,thanks to Luke Skywalker, any weapon you build will be BFR'ed via Fold space; An Aing-Ti Force technique that transmits an object through the Force to any location Luke deems, ignoring space and time to do so:

Luke caught Tadar'Ro's eye and smiled a little. Then, before Ben knew what was happening, there was a sharp pop of displaced air. The Vor'cha stick simply vanished from his hands to reappear in his father's.

--Taken from Star Wars: Fate of the Jedi: Omen

That combined with having one of DC's most powerful mystics on my team means I have SA superman's weaknesses covered quite nicely.

While he is weak against magic,he is not totally useless against it, he has fought and beat magical being before I will get to that later.

Second Per Degaton is also intimately familiar with Earth Prime. One of his time manipulations ( one that gave him world power) was to steal missiles from the 60's Cuban crisis from Earth Prime and use them against the powers that be on E-2's 1940's. With Ultra's knowledge of Superman it wouldn't be hard to simply extrapolate where SBP comes from and the instant the battle start Degaton travels to the point in time in the prime universe that SBP launches for earth and diverts him to another red sun planet.

Okay,but how does he know the exact place and time? I'm not familiar with Ultra so does he know the origin of Superman? Just because he knows that does not mean he knows the exact time to do so.

It means I start out the battle one down but instants after it starts one of your team blink out of existence. Even if it takes a while for him to blink out he can easily be countered by Obsidian. SBP has an irrational fear of the dark because it can sap his solar energy and Obsidian is Dark. plus his ability to show the darker things within you to his opponents means he can throw SBP's other fears in his face easily.

Hmm Obsidian using the dark won't help him much here Luke could summon Force Light to cast away darkness and help SBP if need be. Secondly If all else fails Palpatine could use his Essence transfer to transport his mind inside SBP's (which was sort of my plan for SBP to begin wtih)

So very soon after the match starts it's going to be Luke, Palpatine and Hal vs my entire team. Palpatine is arguably your strongest player ( Luke to far behind) but the fact that there is a history between them of animosity also plays into my hand.

They maybe mortal enimies but I think they could put there differences to get the job done,Jedi and Sith have teamed up before to get past a common goal.

I have two of the most powerful TPers in fiction. Brainwave has Telepathically made the Spectre leave for places unknown whilst implanting suggestions in the entire JSA when he was a neophyte and no where near his latter power levels. In All Star in the 60's he telepathically made the entire planet see what he wanted them to see, and has mind raped the entire JSA ( including "Classic Dr Fate") with relative ease. Ultra has controlled several heroes from another dimension, Telepathically communicated with himself over several decades and matched Brainwave in TP battle.

Great I have 3 powerful telepaths, SA Hal has been able to effortlessly control the mind of billions,take control of the Justice league, create powerful illusions, mentally dominate the Shark etc. Palpatine has been able to effortlessly mind wipe billions,effect thousands of Jedi across the galaxy,was able to get a subtle hold over Republic era Luke (this same Luke was able to resist telepathy from a being that telepathically effected millions) ,bring Darth Vader to his needs,shut of the brains of Jedi (who are resistant to telepathy),effect Darth Plagueis,communicate across the galaxy etc. Luke has been able to scan the minds of an entire star system, break control of Palpatine's will with help from Leia,resist telepathy from a being that effected millions,put being to sleep with telepathy,connected his minds with some one across different dimensions,sent out messages across the galaxy, sent messages out to Jedi across the galaxy,easily mind control and entire crew of people,he created illusions of an entire star fleet that that only Darth Caedus could see etc.

Combine that with Obsidian's ability to take the darkness within a soul and cast it back on it's owners view and it should be child's play to make Luke and Palpatine suspect each other of a double cross and work against themselves or out right fight amongst themselves.

Both Luke and Palatine know how to control there emotions,Luke has been able to resist the the empathetic/telepathic intrusion of Palpatine. Jedi are trained to control there emotions,even when Luke Skywalker was getting the life sucked out of him during the BOE he still never let his emotions get the best of him and convert to the dark side.

Then I have Mordru, a character who has defeated Shazam in his place of power when Mordru himself was weakened and Shazam was amped. Who has defeated and killed many Lords of Order and Chaos. Who has taken the power of Dr fate from him, the Power of the Starheart from Alan Scot. Who was about to drink from the speed force from Jay Garrick until interrupted. Mordru isn't more powerful than any of those he defeated,

he is just a magical energy leach who can match anyone by drawing on the very power of the one he fights. He should easily be able to draw on the power of the force within Luke and Palpatine to should their power be too much for his own magic on it's own.

I doubt absorbing Force power will do him any good,with out Midi-chlorians (microorganism that are need to to communicate with the Force) he would not even be able to use the Force powers he absorbs, and since you said he gets most of his powers by leaching of his enemies he is in deep trouble here.

That pretty much just leaves Hal. SA Hal with a weak-o-laimo weakness of the color yellow. My team may not know that weakness but seriously Hal wont keep it from TPers this strong for long and once they know he's toast. Especially when you consider it took the combined power of Martian Manhunter, Guy Gardner and Superman to match Ultra in one time line.

The thing about is that SA Hal won't be alone here as I have explained above I will post scan and quotes later on.

#7 Edited by beatboks1 (7221 posts) - - Show Bio

both Ultra and Brainwave have teleported things and people with their powerful minds. Mordru is also capable of dimensional travel and so is Obsidian. anything BFR'd can be brought back by any member of my team. also since Ultra has shown the ability to control his devices from other dimensions his link will mean he will know where they are.

SA superman was easily defeated by Dr Chaos ( the earth 1 evil counterpart of Dr Fate) before he went to Fate for help. Fate has been defeated by a non amped Mordru ( without leeching other powers just using his own) many times. In fact Fate has only beaten Mordru with prep.

That's what Degatons hour of prep is for. An hour should be plenty of time to find the exact point of Supermans path to Earth. also since Ultra and others have gathered Kryptonite they had to calculate which "meteors" had the pieces of rock to use against Superman. that alone gives them a pretty damn good idea of time.

When Infinity Inc fought Helix one of it's members was able to return the solar powered blasts of Silver Scarab back at him amplified. Obsidian then absorbed the light into his shadow self. I dont see any issue with him doing the same to force light. his shadow absorbs light. Palpatine is going to be too damn busy defending himself to essense transfer.

In case you hadnt noticed all players are blood lusted. this means Luke has already succumbed to his emotions. As such defending himself from Obsidians assault on his psychy wont be likely. turning that natural distrust of each other into blood curdling hatred wont be hard.

Wow talk about overestimating Hal's mental ability. I can easily post the scans where a TPer as limited as Hector Hammond ( whos well below both mins) has complete control of him and his power ring. Also most of the feats your referring to are Brinze age not Silver. bad luck for you, you picked the wrong one. Silver age has succumbed to many TPers like Despero and more and most are either at or below the level of mine. in two cross overs Alan Scot showed greater resistence to TP than Hal and he succumbs to both Ultra and BW often. Luke and Palpatine wouldn't be above BW and Ultra ( who are equals) and BW has feats ( as posted) of affecting every mind on the planet ( billions). plus a mere image of his psychy present in his son was able to best the crap out of Maxima in the astral plane where she is supposed to be supreme ( Extreme Justice)

I never said he gets most of his powers from leeching at all. Without any leeching what so ever he is an immortal lord of Chaos who has no beginning and will never end and is in power slightly above Dr Fate. he had no way of using the speed force or countless other energies he's absorbed either he just uses the power to increase his magic. by the time if the 30th Century ( the sky father level version I DIDNT pick) he will have absorbed all magic in the universe and will at one point absorb infinite man ( think Eternity). ther has never been a limit to the energy he can absorb and nothing has so far he's been unable tk absorb to enhance him. He's my ace in the whole in case anyone has a character a little op he ca. enhance to exceed them from their own power.

By the time it gets to me worrying about Hal he will be alone and done for

@dccomicsrule2011:

Silver Age Green Lanterns great mental power

Yeah, he's going to overcome the much more powerful mental assaults of Brainwave and Ultra without a problem ROFLMAO.

Superman and magic

SA Superman used to tell his enemies so often what affected him that they wouldn't even need to know his weaknesses.

These two wont last long at all.against my team

Online

#9 Edited by beatboks1 (7221 posts) - - Show Bio

@dccomicsrule2011:

Just to be clear so far in my prep I've only had Per Degaton go to Earth Prime's history to make that change to depower SBP ( or just lower his powers by sending him to a different planet under say an orange sun or creating a device to temporarily change or filter the spectrum of Earth's sun.

My team consists of three prep masters.

Ultra with prep has acquired the power of a 5th dimension Djinn and become a reality warper. he has altered the cosmic balance in order to erase every hero on his world from existence. He has empowered being with powers on the level of some of the best planetary level characters around ( Cyclotron with power = to Firestorm, Amazingman = Absorbing man). He has turned heroes evil and against their own children. Created devices that can control volcanoes Just to name a few.

Brainwave has orchestrated things to have many heroes ( the JSA and the All Star Squadron) like puppets on his string. he has invented devices that tap their mental energy or that of anyone he aims it at and feeds his power. Plus other inventions like a protective cube that deflects any power aimed at it back where it came times 2 in power. Plus he's made space ships and devices that can cause natural disasters.

Degaton has eliminated all the worlds technology while keeping his protected in a vault that time would not effect so that the world would be easy conquest. he has gathered weapons from across the time stream. brought villains from the future to face their enemies before those heroes are familiar with them but the villains retain their knowledge. he's also built some amazing weapons using future technology

Not to mention he could tinker a weapon in seconds during battle to do something completely different

Then I have Mordru who's a bigger threat than all three combined. At the heights of his power in the 30th century he will solo the combined JSA/JLA/ and LoSH. but still he's not lacking power in the 20th century. He has beaten Dr Fate, Alan Scot, and many more. he can regenerate an arm severed in battle in an instant with just a thought.

The simple fact is EVERY single member of my team has fought and soloed the JSA ( in some cases also the JLA). So they have soloed larger teams than yours with individuals every bit as powerful and more.

There is also the handy little advantage that Ultra, Brainwave and Per Degaton have all worked together before and so have Mordru and Obsidian. I actually have an established team chemistry that no other team has

#10 Edited by dccomicsrule2011 (24808 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1:

both Ultra and Brainwave have teleported things and people with their powerful minds. Mordru is also capable of dimensional travel and so is Obsidian. anything BFR'd can be brought back by any member of my team. also since Ultra has shown the ability to control his devices from other dimensions his link will mean he will know where they are.

But Luke will teleport all of those weapons inside of a Black Hole meaning they will be crushed instantly, Luke knows where a Black Hole is located assuming the battle takes place on neutral ground.

SA superman was easily defeated by Dr Chaos Fate has been defeated by a non amped Mordru ( without leeching other powers just using his own) many times. In fact Fate has only beaten Mordru with prep.

I hope you don't mind me asking but do you have the scans for this? I could name many times Silver Silver Age Superman have overcome magical being, Like the time when an Elder God who transmuted Wonder Woman failed to transmute Superman and was knocked unconscious in the process, SA Superman has been able to beat Captain Marvel, was able to break free of a magical straitjacket etc . Point being is this; while SA Superman has some bad showing against magic he also has good showing against it as well so magic is not an instant defeat.

That's what Degatons hour of prep is for. An hour should be plenty of time to find the exact point of Supermans path to Earth. also since Ultra and others have gathered Kryptonite they had to calculate which "meteors" had the pieces of rock to use against Superman. that alone gives them a pretty damn good idea of time.

Fair enough.

When Infinity Inc fought Helix one of it's members was able to return the solar powered blasts of Silver Scarab back at him amplified. Obsidian then absorbed the light into his shadow self. I dont see any issue with him doing the same to force light. his shadow absorbs light. Palpatine is going to be too damn busy defending himself to essense transfer.

Here's the thing though,Force Light is not ordinary light,it specialize in repealing the darkness, Luke used the same power to repulse Abeloth.

In case you hadnt noticed all players are blood lusted. this means Luke has already succumbed to his emotions. As such defending himself from Obsidians assault on his psychy wont be likely. turning that natural distrust of each other into blood curdling hatred wont be hard.

Fair enough but if he does join the darkside that still does not mean he is going to attack Palpatine, in fact Luke once turned to the darkside of the Force and was Palpatine's apprentice and he was not trying to take Palpatine's head of in the process. Luke and Palpatine know how to control their emotion for a common goal,not to mention these guys are higlhy resistant to any kind of mind/emotion manipulation to boot. And besides your guys will be to busy dealing with Sith spirits,but I will get to that in a moment.

Wow talk about overestimating Hal's mental ability.

I'm not really I'm just saying that Hal is not totally useless when it comes to telepathy.

I can easily post the scans where a TPer as limited as Hector Hammond ( whos well below both mins) has complete control of him and his power ring.

Hammond may not be as good as your guys but he is not bad either,he has been able to make his thoughts come to life with telepathy alone the same way he done in Green Lantern # 34 when he was able to turn his thoughts into a GOTU to take on Hal and this same mental Image was pulling of amazing feats. Again he may not be on there level but he is no scrub either. Also I can post many many scans of Hal besting Hammond after all he is the villian he almost never beats Hal.

Also most of the feats your referring to are Bronze age not Silver. bad luck for you, you picked the wrong one.

But isn't Silver age Hal Jordan and Bronze age the same people? I mean he not retconed and his power level was pretty much the same.... Even then Hal has been able to effortlessly mind control in the SA billions:

Silver age has succumbed to many TPers like Despero and more and most are either at or below the level of mine

True but Hal has also overcome some of them, also does this fight take place on Earth? If so Hal could use the Will of other humans on Earth to amp his own like he showed in Green Lantern # 31 (will post scans for that later) giving him even more mental resistance. And even if Hal does succumb to there telepathy,Luke can use his telepathy to free him in need be he was able to free some one who succumbed to the mind tamnpering of Palpatine before.

Luke and Palpatine wouldn't be above BW and Ultra ( who are equals) and BW has feats ( as posted) of affecting every mind on the planet ( billions). plus a mere image of his psychy present in his son was able to best the crap out of Maxima in the astral plane where she is supposed to be supreme ( Extreme Justice)

I agree with this, I do not think either of them can effect the other with telepathy.

I never said he gets most of his powers from leeching at all.

My mistake I worded it wrong I meant to say you said he greatest asset in this tourny is leeching off of others.

ther has never been a limit to the energy he can absorb and nothing has so far he's been unable tk absorb to enhance him. He's my ace in the whole in case anyone has a character a little op he ca. enhance to exceed them from their own power.

That's a no limit fallacy imo just because he absorbed other energy that does not mean he can absorb and use the Force,it has been canonically stated that you can only use the power of the Force with Midi-chlorians since he have none the Force would be useless to him. The Force is unlike any energy he has ever absorbed,it is like and entity sort to speak.

Silver Age Green Lanterns great mental power

Yeah, he's going to overcome the much more powerful mental assaults of Brainwave and Ultra without a problem ROFLMAO.

I never said he would have no problem with there telepathy, in fact there is a good chance he can. All i'm saying is Hal is not going down as easy as you think he is from telepathy. lol @ using Hector Hammond I can post many scans of Hal overcoming the mental power of Hammond.

Superman and magic

SA Superman used to tell his enemies so often what affected him that they wouldn't even need to know his weaknesses.

These two wont last long at all.against my team

Online

I doubt a bloodlusted Superman is going to running his mouth the only thing he is going to be doing is sneezing the Solar System away:

I also forgot about my prep plan I will have that up right after this.

#11 Edited by dccomicsrule2011 (24808 posts) - - Show Bio

Prep

Palpatine with one hour prep Palpatine can easily conjure up other Sith Spirits and make them do his bidding (I.E. posses people on your team)

Chancellor Palpatine spent many years studying ancient Holocrons to learn the secrets of the SIth. The Holocrons enabled him to channel Sith spirits, who taught him how to harness dark-side energy and release lethal bolts of lightning.

--Taken from The Ultimate Visual Guide

I can also get the Galaxy Gun a battle station that destroys planets by sending missiles threw hyperspace,that when making physical contact converts matter into energy,thus destroying it:

An immense space station built in the orbit above the Emperor's new Capital world of Byss,the Galaxy Gun Fired missiles equipped with particle disintegrator warheads. Each missile possessed a terrifyingly fast hyperdrive and could travel from the Galactic Core to the outermost frontier planet in a matter of hours. Upon emerging from hyperspace and homing in on the target world,the missile's formidable defenses would activate. Automated laser cannon turrets blasted fighter interceptors,while armor plating and advanced energy shields easily withstood blast from powerful ion cannons and turbolasers. Once within range,the particle disintegrator warhead,energizes by the missile's power core,triggered massive nucleonic chain reactions that spread like wildfire across the planets surface,explosively converting matter to energy. At the missiles's full power setting,the nucleonic reactions were sustained until all matter was converted,destroying the entire planet.

--Taken from Star Wars-The Essential Guide to the Weapons and Technology

You might say who is going to be manning the ship,well thanks to Hal can bring an inanimate object into life:

Here is is turning toy ship into a real one:

Here is Hal using his ring to change himself into a robot via atomic manipulation:

Here Hal creates a Amoeba with his power ring (I know the scans suck but bare with me here):

I can also get the Death Star II which was stated to be 2x more power then the first one.

Not to mention Hal could also give duplicates of his ring and give one to everyone:

Superman can also sun dip for an hour boosting his power even more so.

I will post more later.

#12 Edited by beatboks1 (7221 posts) - - Show Bio

@dccomicsrule2011:

But Luke will teleport all of those weapons inside of a Black Hole meaning they will be crushed instantly, Luke knows where a Black Hole is located assuming the battle takes place on neutral ground.

I have basic knowledge and reason to know or assume that Luke has the power to teleport. I also have one of the best DCU prep masters. If you don't think in that hour of prep he's taken some measures to protect his device from BFR ( since really I'm using a device he's already made so he wont have to make it) your quite mistaken. Besides which there are plenty of other ways Ultra can ( and has) deal with Superman. For one thing as my scans above already show Ultra's mental power comes from the fact that he acquired and absorbed the power of the MAGICAL artifact the Powerstone into his brain. The use of his mental power ( also shown in above scans) clearly works quite effectively on Superman, he can even throw him around with TK

I hope you don't mind me asking but do you have the scans for this? I could name many times Silver Silver Age Superman have overcome magical being

Sorry about the black and white ones but I bought this in an Australian reprint anthology and they were either all or part Black and white.

It was SA Superboy from New adventure of Superboy 25 (IIRC). Now let's not forget that it was Superboy not Superman who had the feat of towing multiple planets on a chain so there si NO power difference.

It's also very pertinent since Dr Chaos is the only Mage Superboy/man has faced who is in the power league of Mordru. Dr Chaos being a Lord of Chaos and Mordru being the MOST powerful Lord of Chaos.

Superman isn't lasting against Mordru here, just like he didn't against Chaos.

Hal

Let's deal with Hal once and for all.

In Green Lantern Version 2 #40 Alan's spirit and mind are ejected by Krona who takes over his body. Even disembodied he still affects the powerful mind of Krona and his power. The same Krona who in that issue also mentally subjugated the entire Guardians of the Universe. Hal could not defeat Krona and only succeeded because Alan joined wills with him. If Ultra and BW's mental powers have affected and gotten the better of Alan ( and they BOTH have. In All Star Squadron 20 Alan almost killed himself because his battle with BW made him think he had killed millions) Than Hal won't fair as well let alone better.

Here's the thing though,Force Light is not ordinary light,it specialize in repealing the darkness, Luke used the same power to repulse Abeloth.

Silver Scarabs solar blasts aren't "normal light " either. They are intense beams of energy that can and have melted metal. And when Tao deflected them she amplified them.

While we're on the subject Obsidian's darkness isn't exactly "normal darkness" either so I don't see what difference that makes. Force light is made to repeal darkness Obsidian's darkness is made to absorb light. NO real way of knowing which one will win out, but since your already down at least two players, SBP depowered as the battle starts ( my use of Obie to use darkness against him to take advantage of his irrational fear of it is after all only a back up) and Superman taken out quick with either Kryptonite or magic ( Ultra will keep a spare piece of Green K with him just in case his safe guards of his K ray fail). It's not like Luke wont have his hands busy fighting the greater numbers. Not to mention their own shadows ( and those of anyone anywhere near this fight or every place of darkness nearby under Obie's control.

Fair enough but if he does join the darkside that still does not mean he is going to attack Palpatine, in fact Luke once turned to the darkside of the Force and was Palpatine's apprentice and he was not trying to take Palpatine's head of in the process.

Ah but that wasn't while his inner demons from his soul were being shown him. Remember what Obsidian does is shed their own inner demons to them. Luke wouldn't be fighting someone's attempt to control him he's be fighting the darkness within himself. And Obie could easily show him the countless reasons he has not to trust or in fact distrust Palpatine. His own dark side self would do the rest.

Hammond may not be as good as your guys but he is not bad either,he has been able to make his thoughts come to life with telepathy alone the same way he done in Green Lantern # 34

Unfortunately while that is a high end showing for Hector it's just an everyday showing fro BW who can always project his thoughts as actual three dimensional solid and real things. he used his mental images to commit crimes and bring the loot to him without ever being near the crime scene in his earliest Goldean age appearance. he also used them to fight and defeat Wonder Woman and the JSA at various locals across the country ( that includes the Spectre and Dr fate)

True but Hal has also overcome some of them, also does this fight take place on Earth? If so Hal could use the Will of other humans on Earth to amp his own like he showed in Green Lantern # 31

But those he has overcome are not on BW or Ultra's level. Remember Ultra has TP defeated MMH, Hector Hammond, Jemm and others. He has worked with Despero and more. As for using the will of Earth BW could just as easily use his brain drain apparatus to drain mental energy from every mind on earth and amp his power. Just like he did in All Star 58 and 59. Using that amp he TP one shotted the entire JSA.

I never said he would have no problem with there telepathy, in fact there is a good chance he can. All i'm saying is Hal is not going down as easy as you think he is from telepathy. lol @ using Hector Hammond I can post many scans of Hal overcoming the mental power of Hammond.

Post away, they are meaningless as I have this scan of Ultra having mentally subjugated Hector and several other more powerful TPers than him. Your going to need to show Hal overcoming someone a HELL of a lot more mentally powerful than Hector for it to mean squat. He did employ devices he's created here to add to his TP but I do have prep and I aahven't really used it to do much that would take very long at all.

That's a no limit fallacy imo just because he absorbed other energy that does not mean he can absorb and use the Force,it has been canonically stated that you can only use the power of the Force with Midi-chlorians since he have none the Force would be useless to him. The Force is unlike any energy he has ever absorbed,it is like and entity sort to speak.

He really doesn't need to absorb energy he is after all the most powerful Lord of Order who is without beginning or end. DCU magic works on a very similar basis to the "force" as in it is a energy that links all life. Even if he can't drain the Sith/Jedi ( which I highly doubt) there is still a green lanterns power and the solar energy within Superman. He can amp himself in any way.

I doubt a bloodlusted Superman is going to running his mouth the only thing he is going to be doing is sneezing the Solar System away:

He doesn't need to as Ultra will know and my Mystic is more powerful than the one he couldn't beat.

Now as for the Silver Age/ Bronze Age thing. There may not have been a retcon, but there were VERY distinct differences in portrayal. For one thing in the SA the whole weakness thing was a MAJOR plot point for every character. Almost every appearance Hal would struggle with that damn color yellow. Kryptonite seemed to be everywhere. You specified SA, you should have simply said pre COIE but you didn't. So calling you out on BA feats is very fair since they aren't pertinent to the "versions" you chose.

I'll cover your prep later.

#13 Edited by beatboks1 (7221 posts) - - Show Bio

@dccomicsrule2011:

My prep ( the rest)

As already said Degaton is going to a point in time in Earth Prime history to alter SBP's path so he wont get as much yellow sun absorbed ( or arrives at earth later in life so no where near as powerful)

Ultra will TP link with his future self as he did in All Star Squadron and know what weapons your team are bringing to the party.

Ultra from the 40's TP communicating with his 80's version

I wont go as far as to say he knows every action because everything he's doing will mean future events are changed due to his own actions changed. he will however know exactly what weapons you have and then prepare for them.

That preparation will involve increasing his power. He has already done this twice, once by acquiring the powerstone and Hammer of Thor and merging their power with his mind. Again by mutating the white ape body that he implanted his brain in so that it is close to a physical match fro Superman. He will do this by using his own time machine ( yes Ultra has one too, he used it to take Infinity Inc under his control from the 80's to fight for him in the 40's against their parents) and go back in time to his 40's labs where the devices he used to empower Cyclotron and Amazingman are.

The result will be that Ultra aside from being physically in Superman's league, mentally a giant will have the power of Nuclear Fission at his finger tips and be able to split atoms and the power to alter his won atomic structure and absorb powers. He could even throw in Deathbolt's electric powers if he so chooses

Brainwave will grab his many inventions like his brain drain devices (that he uses it to gather mental energy to amp his power), brain inducer, shrinking ray, force field dome and metal projector. ( images loaded above for some reason).

Mordru will simply cast spells of protection on my team.

NOW I would like to know how you plant to take down my team. Obsidian being a shadow being can't be touched. the version of Degaton I've chosen also has intangibility. Mordru can regenerate any part of him with but a thought and even a time manipulator like Hourman 1 Million could not devolve him to a point he was not a threat because he has no beginning or end. Plus has teleportation and using it can react to FTL opponents and move out of their way ( or them out of his) before they can speed blitz. Note I know no BFR but that doesn't mean I can't move you somewhere else within the battlefield. OHHHH that brings up a point, with NO BFR ( as per OP) you can't teleport my Kryptonite ray into a black whole.

#14 Edited by Wardemon32 (4152 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump

#15 Posted by dccomicsrule2011 (24808 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1: I will have my post up in a bit. Scanning comics is a pain and so is getting quotes from Star Wars Books. O_O

#16 Posted by beatboks1 (7221 posts) - - Show Bio

@dccomicsrule2011: Just so I don't have to look through 5 pages for this again

BUMP

#17 Posted by dccomicsrule2011 (24808 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1:

I have basic knowledge and reason to know or assume that Luke has the power to teleport. I also have one of the best DCU prep masters. If you don't think in that hour of prep he's taken some measures to protect his device from BFR ( since really I'm using a device he's already made so he wont have to make it) your quite mistaken

Okay but how are they going to protect it against BFR? You can say they can protect it with prep all they want but how are they going to go about doing it?

. Besides which there are plenty of other ways Ultra can ( and has) deal with Superman. For one thing as my scans above already show Ultra's mental power comes from the fact that he acquired and absorbed the power of the MAGICAL artifact the Powerstone into his brain

That's good and all but Superman will also be sun dipped here,thanks to one hour prep he can take that time to Sundip for one hour straight. It was stated in OWAW I believe that a sundipped Superman is 100 more powerful then when he is not sunddiped now imagine a sundipped SA version.... And again SA Superman does not automatically lose when going against magic I have some scans to back this up,( I will be getting to that in a bit)

The use of his mental power ( also shown in above scans) clearly works quite effectively on Superman, he can even throw him around with TK

Has he ever dealt with SA Superman? I saw the scans and it looked like that was Earth One Superman to me.

For some reason I can't post scans right now (damn you comicvine!) So I will have to post scans for the claims I make in this rebuttal another time.

Sorry about the black and white ones but I bought this in an Australian reprint anthology and they were either all or part Black and white.

It's all good.

It was SA Superboy from New adventure of Superboy 25 (IIRC). Now let's not forget that it was Superboy not Superman who had the feat of towing multiple planets on a chain so there si NO power difference.

It's also very pertinent since Dr Chaos is the only Mage Superboy/man has faced who is in the power league of Mordru. Dr Chaos being a Lord of Chaos and Mordru being the MOST powerful Lord of Chaos.

Superman isn't lasting against Mordru here, just like he didn't

But this Superman will be ampped to a higher degree thanks to Sundipping, but since his magical resistance to someone as powerful to Mordru is only hypothetical, it is hard to pin point exactly how resistant he would be while sundipped. That is why I will have Superboy Prime handle him

In Green Lantern Version 2 #40 Alan's spirit and mind are ejected by Krona who takes over his body. Even disembodied he still affects the powerful mind of Krona and his power. The same Krona who in that issue also mentally subjugated the entire Guardians of the Universe. Hal could not defeat Krona and only succeeded because Alan joined wills with him. If Ultra and BW's mental powers have affected and gotten the better of Alan ( and they BOTH have. In All Star Squadron 20 Alan almost killed himself because his battle with BW made him think he had killed millions) Than Hal won't fair as well let alone better.

I really don't get what this is proving,it's not like Alan done it by himself it took a combined effort of both Hal and Alan to beat Krona. How does this exactly prove he will go down easy to there telepathy? They will be to busy dealing with Sith spirits trying to take over there conscious to even get to Hal.

Silver Scarabs solar blasts aren't "normal light " either. They are intense beams of energy that can and have melted metal. And when Tao deflected them she amplified them.

While we're on the subject Obsidian's darkness isn't exactly "normal darkness" either so I don't see what difference that makes. Force light is made to repeal darkness Obsidian's darkness is made to absorb light. NO real way of knowing which one will win out,

Fair enough.

but since your already down at least two players,

Well see about that.

SBP depowered as the battle starts ( my use of Obie to use darkness against him to take advantage of his irrational fear of it is after all only a back up)

If that does happen Palpatine will command a Sith Spirit to take over SBP consciousness. As I have already shown before Palpatine can control spirits,Knowing the kind of power Obsidian is packing via prep,he would have a back up plan like this in his pocket. When the Sith spirit possess Boy Prime he would have no such fear of darkness.

Superman taken out quick with either Kryptonite or magic ( Ultra will keep a spare piece of Green K with him just in case his safe guards of his K ray fail).

A sundipped Superman would not go down easy to Green K, and not to mention his strength and speed will outmatch Ultra to the point.

Ah but that wasn't while his inner demons from his soul were being shown him. Remember what Obsidian does is shed their own inner demons to them. Luke wouldn't be fighting someone's attempt to control him he's be fighting the darkness within himself. And Obie could easily show him the countless reasons he has not to trust or in fact distrust Palpatine. His own dark side self would do the rest.

This reminds me of a story in Star Wars A Long time ago..... Luke fault and beat his inner Demon by not allowing it to control him and listen to the Force. I will post scans for that later.,seeing as how Comicvine is not letting me post scans now and I do not have that particular Long Time Ago volume with me at the time.

Unfortunately while that is a high end showing for Hector it's just an everyday showing fro BW who can always project his thoughts as actual three dimensional solid and real things. he used his mental images to commit crimes and bring the loot to him without ever being near the crime scene in his earliest Goldean age appearance. he also used them to fight and defeat Wonder Woman and the JSA at various locals across the country ( that includes the Spectre and Dr fate)

Actually Hector Hammond has made solid images with his thought on multiple occasions, he once done it to create rocks monsters,giant Iguana's, but none of this is really relevant, I'm not claiming Hector Hammond is better then him anyway.

But those he has overcome are not on BW or Ultra's level. Remember Ultra has TP defeated MMH, Hector Hammond, Jemm and others.

Hal has overcome the combine might of Gorrila Grodd and Hector Hammond, he has over come Sonar,over come the Shark, controlled the Justice league. But again your guys will be too busy dealing with Sith spirits trying to possess them to even try to TP Hal.

Post away, they are meaningless as I have this scan of Ultra having mentally subjugated Hector and several other more powerful TPers than him. Your going to need to show Hal overcoming someone a HELL of a lot more mentally powerful than Hector for it to mean squat.

I will have scans for this later again at this point and time Comicvine is not allowing me to post scans.

He really doesn't need to absorb energy he is after all the most powerful Lord of Order who is without beginning or end. DCU magic works on a very similar basis to the "force" as in it is a energy that links all life. Even if he can't drain the Sith/Jedi ( which I highly doubt) there is still a green lanterns power and the solar energy within Superman. He can amp himself in any way

The thing is though it's not just the principle,with out Midi-Chlorians he can not drain the Force,It's the Midi-Chlorians that manipulates the Force. He can leech of them all he wants,my point was I doubt he can leech off the Force but I will just leave that up to the voters to decide.

Now as for the Silver Age/ Bronze Age thing. There may not have been a retcon, but there were VERY distinct differences in portrayal. For one thing in the SA the whole weakness thing was a MAJOR plot point for every character. Almost every appearance Hal would struggle with that damn color yellow. Kryptonite seemed to be everywhere. You specified SA, you should have simply said pre COIE but you didn't. So calling you out on BA feats is very fair since they aren't pertinent to the "versions" you chose.

You make bring up a good point, I Pm'ed the one of the creators of this Tourny (Oceanmaster) and he told me it is okay for me to use Bronze Age feats as well.

I will get to your prep in the next post.

#18 Edited by dccomicsrule2011 (24808 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1:

My prep ( the rest)

As already said Degaton is going to a point in time in Earth Prime history to alter SBP's path so he wont get as much yellow sun absorbed ( or arrives at earth later in life so no where near as powerful)

That really won't matter since Boy Prime will sun dip for a whole hour and seeing as how he has free room to roam anywhere he wants I can have him sun dip inside of a yellow Sun which makes kryptonians 2 times more powerful then when under a yellow Sun.

Ultra will TP link with his future self as he did in All Star Squadron and know what weapons your team are bringing to the party.

Hal can communicate with his future self as well,he can use the same trick.

Mordru will simply cast spells of protection on my team.

How strong are the protection spells?

NOW I would like to know how you plant to take down my team.

Will do.

Obsidian being a shadow being can't be touched.

Palpatine can leech of his Life Force or Hal could probably still interact with him seeing as how he has interected with intangible/energy beings before.

the version of Degaton I've chosen also has intangibility.

Same as above,also what kind of telepathy feats is he sporting? Luke could possibly use it to put him to sleep.

the version of Degaton I've chosen also has intangibility. Mordru can regenerate any part of him with but a thought and even a time manipulator like Hourman 1 Million could not devolve him to a point he was not a threat because he has no beginning or end.

Luke's TK can do some damage to him seeing as how he was able hold a black hole in place and Crumble Vaders fortress which reached the clouds:

Luke crumbles Vader’s fortress, crushes it into pebble-sized pieces, and then throws its remains into the nearby sea.

A damp, cold wind blowing out of a broken sky buffeted Luke Skywalker as he stood on the cliff above his seacost hermitage. He stood there a long time, thinking off all the reasons he had raised it from the rocky sands, of the work he had thought to do there. He had taken the broken pieces of his father’s fortress retreat and tried to remake them into something that could redeem them from their history. But he saw now that all he had managed to build was a prison, and that he had been fortunate to escape it.

Extending his hands and his will, Luke found the points of greatest stress within the structure and pressed upon them, found the points of greatest fragility and sundered them. With a roar that momentarily rivaled the wind, the hermitage collapsed in on itself, crushing the fighter still sealed within it.

But that was not enough to satisfy Luke, not enough to forever erase the temptation. One after another, he raised the pieces of the ruined hermitage, the broken ship, up out of the sand and into the air, crumbling them with the force of his thoughts, until it was a dense, swirling cloud of pebble-sized fragments and metal bits. Then, with a final, explosive effort of will, he hurled the cloud of debris far out beyond the breakers, where it rained down on the churning water and vanished from sight.

--Taken from Tyrant's Test

Luke telekinetically grips the portions of Vader’s destroyed retreat fortress from the sand, cliffs, and sea and molds them into the parts necessary to rebuild it as it was before. He then moves his E-Wing into the hangar. The hermitage itself is taller than the cliffs nearby, and when Luke stands on its apex, his view is obstructed by storm clouds, showing how immense the fortress is.

Luke had not gone far when he stopped and looked up at the top of the cliff for a long moment, then out at the twin spires of rock. Dropping his chin to his chest and closing his eyes, he turned through two full circles, then looked back up at the cliff edge. “Yes,” he said, the wind stealing the word from his lips. “Yes, it is here.”

He sat down on the sand, cross-legged and straight-backed, and brought his hands together in his lap, fingertip to fingertip. Concentrating on a picture in his mind, Luke dipped his awareness deeply into the flow of the Force beneath him. With eyes that looked inward, he found what he was seeking, like flaws in a near-perfect crystal. He extended his will.

The sand around him stirred. The rocks shuddered, shifted, then began to rise from the sea and the sand as though sifted from them by an invisible screen. Swirling through the air as they sought their place, the stones took shape as broken wall and shattered foundation, as arch and gate and dome—the ruins of Darth Vader’s fortress retreat. It hung in the air around and above Luke as it had once stood atop the cliff, a dark-faced and forbidding edifice.

There was no record in Imperial City’s files to say whether his father had ever occupied the fortress, though it had clearly been built for him in accord with his instructions. It had been empty when it was destroyed by a B-wing’s blasters, in the days after the New Republic reclaimed Coruscant. Was this where Vader plotted his conquests in the Emperor’s service? Was this where he had come to rejuvenate after a battle? Had there been celebrations here, self-indulgent pleasures or cruelties? Luke listened for the echoes of the old evils, and could not be certain. But that did not matter to his plans. As he had redeemed and reclaimed his father, he would redeem and reclaim his father’s house.

Now the stones swirled again in the air, joined by others plucked from the sea and stripped from the face of the cliff. Now broken edge fused against broken edge, and the dark faces of the rock lightened as their mineral structure was reshuffled. Now heavy rock walls and floors thinned to an airy elegance as if they were clay in a potter’s press. Now a tower stretched skyward until it rose above the edge of the cliff.

When it was done, the last gap closed, the last rock transformed, the structure securely perched just above the sand on pillars of stone extending down to bedrock, Luke brought the E-wing down the beach and nestled it in the chamber he had made for it. It was not a door that closed over the opening, though, but a solid wall that closed out not only the wind and the cold, but the world. “Shut down all systems,” Luke told R7-T1. “Then place yourself in standby mode, I won’t be needing you for a while.”

The last task was to inspect his retreat from the perspective of any outsiders whose gaze might fall upon it. All was as he had planned. From the sky, it appeared as part of the beach. From the sea, as part of the cliffs. From the beach, as part of the sky. From the cliffs, as part of the sea. It was not a trick of camouflage, but a simple matter of allowing the essences of its substance to be seen. The retreat was of the sea, and the rock, and the sand, and the sky, in harmony with them rather than imposed on them.

The last test was to climb the tower and inspect the view. But when he looked to the east, he found his view blocked by the lowering clouds. So he waited, shrugging off time as easily as he shrugged off the cold. He waited until the wind finally blew the storm away, until he could see the snow-capped Manarai Mountains ruling over the jewel of the Core, outlined against the sky by the light from the yellow-faced inner moon.

--Taken form Before the Storm

Palpatine can also use his Force Storms (I can't post scans for that right now (man I'm hating Comicvine right now..)

Plus has teleportation and using it can react to FTL opponents and move out of their way ( or them out of his) before they can speed blitz.

Really? When did he do that?

OHHHH that brings up a point, with NO BFR ( as per OP) you can't teleport my Kryptonite ray into a black whole.

I thought the OP meant I could not BFR people I had no idea it meant weapons @wardemon32 is BFR weapons allowed?

#19 Posted by Wardemon32 (4152 posts) - - Show Bio

@dccomicsrule2011:

Yea BFR weapons is allowed. When I said "No BFR" I meant people.

#20 Edited by beatboks1 (7221 posts) - - Show Bio

@dccomicsrule2011:

Okay but how are they going to protect it against BFR? You can say they can protect it with prep all they want but how are they going to go about doing it?

since BFR of weapons is allowed I can protect my Kryptonite ray by either Ultra or BW or Mordru or Obsidian ( hell Degaton for that matter) teleporting it in and out where i need it long enough to fire it's blast ( seconds) Or either Degaton or Ultra or Mordru can shield it in it's own time so it's there but not there. Both Ultra and Degaton have time travel devices, plus Degaton ( the version I've chosen) and Mordru have time powers. If Luke can't actually know or access where it is he can't BFR it.

That's good and all but Superman will also be sun dipped here,thanks to one hour prep he can take that time to Sundip for one hour straight. It was stated in OWAW I believe that a sundipped Superman is 100 more powerful then when he is not sunddiped now imagine a sundipped SA version.... And again SA Superman does not automatically lose when going against magic I have some scans to back this up,( I will be getting to that in a bit)

please show any evidence of sundipping reducing the effect of Kryptonite on SA Superman ( or magic for that matter) ? since SA ( or BA) superman NEVER sun dipped I'm quite certain there is none. Don'yt warry because you wont and in fact can't because pre COIE Superman's powers didn't work that way. He simply had power under a yellow sun, he also completely lost it under a red one so Sundipping does absolutely nothing for him. HMMM for that matter I have another couple of ways to take out Superman and SBP. I can have Mordru simply change the sun to a red one or have Degaton age it.

SA Superboy couldnt defend against Dr Chaos but your sure he'll resist the more powerful Mordru?? highly unlikely. He may not "automatically win" but we hare talking one of the Most powerful wizards in the DCU here. Just for the record Mordru in the SA soloed the JLA, JSA, and LoSH. That was a team grouping that included SA Superman, SA E-2 Superman, SA Powergirl, SA Mon-el, SA Ultra boy and several others in that league. It also included SA Hal. Plus he one shotted SA Fate AFTER Fate had absorbed power from BOTH Hal and Alan Scot. Post COIE Mordru actually has better feats on teh whole/

before u say about it being superboy and not man let me remind you asside from a sneeze ( that he couldnt do as wanted anyway) SA best feats are actually for the boy

Has he ever dealt with SA Superman? I saw the scans and it looked like that was Earth One Superman to me.

AHH YES Ultra is predominantly a SA/BA character.

This was Ultra manhandling SA E-2 Superman. You know the one that's stronger than E-1 but not as fast or durable due to age. Ultra only has about 3 or 4 post COIE appearances and most are alternate time line ones. Dealing with SA characters is all he has done.

It already took the combined power of Superman, MMH and Guy Gardner to take on Ultra physically, he's best SA E-2 supes physically ( who was stronger but slower and less stamina than e1) so I don't see too many issues there.

I really don't get what this is proving,it's not like Alan done it by himself it took a combined effort of both Hal and Alan to beat Krona. How does this exactly prove he will go down easy to there telepathy? They will be to busy dealing with Sith spirits trying to take over there conscious to even get to Hal.

The point of the feat with Alan from GL 40 was it show that he could control his power ring from a disembodied state when someone else was wearing it ( well the body wearing it). ISomething SA and BA Hal has only ever shown by giving the ring pre commands ( one example would be an encounter with Hector Hammond where Hector took over Hals body but could not control the ring with that control because Hal had prepped for it- that BTW is one of hals overcoming Hector feats nothing to do with mental resistence) Alan actually has the far better TP resistence feats and he cant completely resist either Ultra or BW. This example was perfect because while Krona could TP overcome hal and KO him, and over come ALL the Guardians he could only expell Alan and Alan was still able to have a measure of control himself.

But this Superman will be ampped to a higher degree thanks to Sundipping, but since his magical resistance to someone as powerful to Mordru is only hypothetical, it is hard to pin point exactly how resistant he would be while sundipped. That is why I will have Superboy Prime handle him

SA Superman couldn't sun dip so again I ask HOW this is even possible?? Also once again NOTHING about sun dipping ( even if it WERE possible) has ever reduced their weaknesses.

Hal has overcome the combine might of Gorrila Grodd and Hector Hammond, he has over come Sonar,over come the Shark, controlled the Justice league. But again your guys will be too busy dealing with Sith spirits trying to possess them to even try to TP Hal.

WAIT, so your response to my showing you Ultra overcome mentally the combined mental power of Grodd, Hector Hammond, Martian Mahunter, Jemm and a few others is to say no worries Hal has overcome some of those. Those feats are meaningless when put up against someone who has overcome them ALL together. Add to that the fact that Ultra and BW are shown to be complete equals in several places. Add to that the fact that the mere image in the mind of his son from BW could beat Maxima ( who's above everyone you mentioned in TP) in the Astral plane where she's supposed to be supreme in Extreme Justice. WE aren't even talking about a full BW just what's left of him pushing his psychy onto his son with his power. Hal has NO FEATS that compare to Ultra or BW in TP.

The thing is though it's not just the principle,with out Midi-Chlorians he can not drain the Force,It's the Midi-Chlorians that manipulates the Force. He can leech of them all he wants,my point was I doubt he can leech off the Force but I will just leave that up to the voters to decide.

As I've tried to point out it doesn't matter. Mordru has Soloed a team that included Alan Scot, Dr Fate, Hourman 1 Million, Captain marvel, Powergirl, Obsidian, Stargirl, Hypolitta, Jay Garrick and others. He's soloed a larger team of MORE powerful characters than yours without an amp. The fact is every single member of my team has soloed a team like that and more. Your seriously outclassed here.

Also as I've said in DCU magic is done by using the "Mana" which is the force that flows through all life. IN Star Wars the "force" is the force that flows through all life. In a shared universe how can they NOT be the same thing.

That really won't matter since Boy Prime will sun dip for a whole hour and seeing as how he has free room to roam anywhere he wants I can have him sun dip inside of a yellow Sun which makes kryptonians 2 times more powerful then when under a yellow Sun.

!since my plan for SBP is to slow his ship with time altering so he arrives to earth as an 11 or 12 yr old boy he wont have absorbed anywhere near as much YK to begin with. doubling his power with a sun dip will still mean he's lower than New Earth supes so hardly an issue

How strong are the protection spells?

Strong enough that he's beaten skyfathers, soloed team larger and more powerful than yours and a lot more.

Palpatine can leech of his Life Force or Hal could probably still interact with him seeing as how he has interected with intangible/energy beings before.

Wait, your going to leech the life force from a character who's powers include absorbing souls/soul energy ( or life force). How does that even make sense?? Also Obsidian isn't just "intangible" he's an abstract force. Unless you can show Hal touching a shadow ( something that has no form). In his shadow form Todd can touch things while they can't touch him. It's not phasing in the normal sense.

Same as above,also what kind of telepathy feats is he sporting? Luke could possibly use it to put him to sleep.

Luke and Palpatine are going to have their hands full with Ultra and BW they won't have time to warry about anyone else

Luke's TK can do some damage to him seeing as how he was able hold a black hole in place and Crumble Vaders fortress which reached the clouds:

Trust me man, Luke is going to be so damn busy he wont have a chance to worry about Mordru. Here for example is one of BW's mental projections ( from GA long before he built his power) fighting the JSA miles from where BW actually was.

He could fight and commit crimes in different parts of the country with his mental projections while he was safely somewhere else. Or he could simply bind rape several highly powerful individuals at once like this.

That BTW was classic Dr fate. Before I here you cry foul because it's pre COIE feat, Brainwave died before COIE, there is no post COIE version.

#22 Posted by beatboks1 (7221 posts) - - Show Bio

@dccomicsrule2011:

Here is yet another example of the mental power of BW and Ultra.

Here we have Brainwave Jr before receiving the gift of his dying fathers power soloing the assembled JSA

The very Same BW Jnr who Ultra telepathically assaults and overcomes from another dimension while he's telepathically taking over several others.

Brainwave Jnr who has VASTLY superior mental power to hector Hammond, Grodd, and every other character you've mentioned so far could not resist Ultra and you truly think someone who's best TP resistance feats are resisting the inferiors of one so easily taken down by my TPers is going to show anything of substance.

AND Ultra and BW have always been mental equals.

#23 Posted by New_World_Order (13189 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump

#24 Posted by beatboks1 (7221 posts) - - Show Bio

@wardemon32: when does round 1 end. I want to allow Dccomicsrules2011 a chance to reply but if he doesn't want to di a closing statement before votes called

#25 Posted by Wardemon32 (4152 posts) - - Show Bio
#26 Posted by beatboks1 (7221 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1: @dccomicsrule2011

As long as you guys are ready. Round 2 is almsot done I believe

Not sure why but I didn't get tagged on that one.

I'm pretty ready now, so will just make a closing case.

  1. Courtesy of my prep SBP will be considerably lower in power than normal as he wont make it to Earth and a yellow sun until 11 or 12. He'll only have a couple of years to absorb YK radiation so will hardly even be a threat.
  2. SA Superman can't sun dip because that version never could. Even if he could nothing about sun dipping has ever countered weaknesses.
  3. Ultra is intimately acquainted with a pre coie Superman so will know his weakness very well having exploited it often.
  4. SA Hal has a very simple mundane weakness, a lousy color. Since I have two very powerful TPers( three if you count Mordru) and another with power over the soul, there is no way I wont know that. As such i will use yellow against him in very short order and he has no answer for it.
  5. For all the talk about Hal resisting mental powers, his best feats are against those whose power is well below mentalists like BW Jnr who Ultra and Bw can easily defeat even from as far away as another dimension. plus those Like Alan who have greater resistance feats and mental strength feats than Hal have succumbed to them.
  6. The idea that Palpatine will "possess" my team when I have Obsidian and Mordru who both also possess the power to possess others. Somehow i just don't see that one flying at all.
  7. Mordru has the capability of draining almost anything of Power. Even if we say he can't drain the Jedi and Sith he certainly can drain SBP, SA Supes and Hal. This means all will be weaker ( even More weaker than the Kryptonite ray and only spending 4 to 6 yrs under a yellow sun not your entire life, can do) while he get's stronger.
  8. Courtesy of my prep on top of his Superman level Strangth and blunt force durability, massive level TP and TK Ultra will have the powers of Cyclotron Deathbolt and Amazingman. This will mean will have VAST energy manipulation, flight and additional Super Strength. Plus matter and power absorption. All this so far is adding up to three of your team falling in moments at best. Only Palpatine and Luke will be left. Ultra can probably solo them while my other team members all take on Luke ad Palpatine
  9. Even if by some absolute miracle SBP and SA Supes aren't harmed or Depowered to a level I'm happy with what's to stop me from simply turning them into babies with Degaton's time powers ( scan above wouldn't load here.. No to be fair Ii'll simply de-age them a few years to when their powers were as weak as i was trying to achieve with the prep plans.
  10. So basically Palaptine and Luke within a minute, 2 tops will be facing all my team. They will also be facing EVERYTHING my team bring to the part. Every shadow for miles, 100's of mental constructs of BW's.
  11. You say Luke has kept his emotions in check before, but he has also lost them. Empire strikes back the scene on the death star when he learns that Leia and Han are in danger. When faced with a few hundred of BW's mental constructs to fight ( some maybe in visages that trouble him) BW's own mental onslaught while Obsidian is also weighing in on his soul. Not to mention when Ultra finishes he joins this team assaulting Luke.
  12. That then means you only have Palpatine who's fighting my entire team ( likely already weakened by Mordru and Degaton) as well as Luke.

Holes in your argument

  1. SA Superman can't sun dip was only a post COIE thing.
  2. No evidence anywhere that sundipping increases resistance to weaknesses.
  3. Hal's TP resisting feats are woefully inadequate.
  4. Obsidian and Degaton's intangibility doesn't work like others. They don't change their density or speed up their atoms. Obsidian is a shadow that actually has no substance, it void/ lack of anything. Degaton does it much the way of Zoom, he's simply in another or parallel time. Just because they've done it before doesn't mean it works every time.
  5. Sundipping either makes SBP 2 times or 100 times ( can't be both) more powerful. Two times seems pointless especially since he's only been around 6 or so years his power level is likely close to that of action 1. Two times a little over Luke Cage level won't cause my guys any reason for concern.
  6. Luke wont do any TK damage to anyone who's powerful enough to defeat the TKer who could shatter Alan SCot constructs with his mental powers. That was a feat of BW Jnr ( before upgrade) and Ultra owned him from another dimesnion

I'm done - your turn.

#27 Posted by dccomicsrule2011 (24808 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1: My closing closing statement:

Courtesy of my prep SBP will be considerably lower in power than normal as he wont make it to Earth and a yellow sun until 11 or 12. He'll only have a couple of years to absorb YK radiation so will hardly even be a threat.

If that does happen Hal Jordan could just time travel and undo the things you done,I'm more the sure the effects would be shown during the prep time and all Hal has to do is travel back through time and undo the damage:

So that point is pretty null and void.

SA Superman can't sun dip because that version never could. Even if he could nothing about sun dipping has ever countered weaknesses.

My point was that was,while sun dipping a Kryptonian should have a higher resistance to Kryptoinite that is why I said it was "hypothetical" or speculation but it's not like it matters, though thanks to the rings given to Superman by Hal Jordan it could block the effects of a Kryptonite ray.

SA Hal has a very simple mundane weakness, a lousy color. Since I have two very powerful TPers( three if you count Mordru) and another with power over the soul, there is no way I wont know that. As such i will use yellow against him in very short order and he has no answer for it.

Hal has dealt with the yellow weakness before and he most certainly can deal with it here.

For all the talk about Hal resisting mental powers, his best feats are against those whose power is well below mentalists like BW Jnr who Ultra and Bw can easily defeat even from as far away as another dimension. plus those Like Alan who have greater resistance feats and mental strength feats than Hal have succumbed to them.

Again they will be to busy dealing with Sith spirts conjured by Palpatine to even get to Hal for some reason you completely ignored this in your rebuta Palpatine can summon and control souls to do his bidding meaning several Sith spirits will be trying to possess your team while at the same time my team will be attacking yours

Chancellor Palpatine spent many years studying ancient Holocrons to learn the secrets of the SIth. The Holocrons enabled him to channel Sith spirits, who taught him how to harness dark-side energy and release lethal bolts of lightning.

--Taken from The Ultimate Visual Guide

Shortly after the Death Star was expected to crush the Rebel base on Yavin 4, Bevel Lemelisk had been summoned to meet personally with Emperor Palpatine deep within the Imperial palace. Lemelisk had been flanked by red-armored Imperial bodyguards as they whisked him off on a high-speed shuttle across the skylanes of the planetwide city. The millions of illuminated windows winked like corusca gems. Each point of light seemed to be another torch celebrating his triumph.

Lemelisk rubbed his jowls, pleased that he had remembered to shave this time. The red Imperial guards were a silent lot, standing at attention like statues. Lemelisk hummed and grabbed his jutting knees as the shuttle approached the enormous pyramid of the Imperial palace. The guards rushed him down the hall so quickly that their flowing scarlet cloaks billowed around them. When the group reached the door to the Emperor's private chambers, the guards stood at attention, their force pikes raised, their smooth plasteel helmets obscuring any expression.

Lemelisk jaunted happily into the vaulted room, pleased to see the black-cowled Emperor waiting for him. Palpatine hunched in his chair, reptilian yellow eyes glowing through the oily shadows cast by his hood. The Emperor appeared to be falling into ill health: His skin was blistered and folded in upon itself like a pasty drapery over his bones, as if decay had set in well before the advent of death.

But Lemelisk couldn't be troubled by unpleasant thoughts right now. He stood on the polished stone floor and made a cursory bow of obeisance. "My Emperor," he said. "I trust you have received word by now that our Death Star has destroyed the secret Rebel base."

"I have received word," Palpatine said and gestured with one long-clawed finger. Lemelisk glanced up at a clattering sound and saw a flexible wire cage released from the vaulted ceiling above. He ducked, but the cage fell squarely down over him, seating itself to the floor as if Palpatine were directing it with invisible powers. The cage was made of fine mesh, the grid barely large enough to stick his smallest finger through.

"Excuse me, Emperor?" Lemelisk said. "Is there something further you wish to discuss with me? Another project perhaps? Anything else I can do for you?" Lemelisk swallowed again.

"Yes, my servant," Palpatine said. "You may die for me."

"Uh—“ Lemelisk could think of nothing else to say. "I was hoping for something else, actually," he said stupidly.

Palpatine glowered at him. "I just received word that your Death Star was destroyed at Yavin. A puny band of Rebels with outdated fighters found a weakness in your design—a thermal exhaust port that allowed a single X-wing pilot to strike a fatal blow. One pilot obliterated an entire battle station!"

Lemelisk pursed his lips. "Thermal exhaust port, eh? I knew I must have forgotten something. I'll have to fix that in the next design."

"Yes, you will," Palpatine said with an icy voice. "But first, you will die for me."

Lemelisk blinked his watery blue eyes and reached out to touch the fine, tough wires of his cage. He looked around, and nervousness raged like a whirlwind around him. Though he had shaved, his neck itched fiercely. The Emperor sat completely still, yet he must have manipulated a set of controls because with a sharp snick at Lemelisk's feet tiny openings appeared in the polished stone floor, orifices that led down to a black unknown. He heard clicking sounds, the scrabbling of sharp, hard feet.

"I am most displeased with your performance, Lemelisk," the Emperor said.

Bevel Lemelisk shuffled aside as something small but iridescent poked out of the opening: a beetle of some kind. The eight-legged, hard-shelled insect shone a deep blue as it clambered into the light and paused to probe the air with waving antennae. From other openings five identical beetles emerged. They fluttered their wing cases, then took flight, buzzing around the enclosed space. Lemelisk swatted at one, but the blue beetle detected the motion and swooped toward him, sinking mandibles with serrated razor edges into the thick flesh of his palm.

"Oww!" Lemelisk flailed his hand until the beetle lost its hold. He stomped on it, cracking its carapace. But the scent of blood attracted the other beetles to him. He watched in horrified fascination as a dozen more of the insects emerged from the floor holes, fluttering their wing cases and buzzing toward him.

"Those are piranha beetles," the Emperor said, lounging back in his swiveling black chair. "They are native to Yavin 4, and I considered them too precious for extinction when your Death Star was expected to destroy the moon. So I rescued them."

The beetles swarmed over Lemelisk now. He slapped at them, shouting, paying little attention to Palpatine's words. "Stop this!" he yelled.

"Not yet," the Emperor said.

The beetles sliced through his clothing to the skin on Lemelisk's arms, his thighs, his chest, his cheeks. Blood flowed around him, drenching his shredded clothes. He could not keep up with the new injuries. Hundreds more beetles swarmed out, battering themselves against the cage mesh.

"These fine insects are not in danger of becoming extinct after all, though," Palpatine said, "since your Death Star did not work! You have failed me, Bevel Lemelisk," he said, slowing his words. His wrinkled, rubbery lips bent upward in a fiendish grin.

"And now, I'm going to watch these beetles devour you, bit by bit. They are very hungry, you see, and don't get satisfied easily. But if they gorge themselves and begin to slow down, don't worry—I have plenty more." The Emperor let out a glacial laugh, but Lemelisk could no longer hear.

The beetles buzzed in his ears, tearing at his flesh, his hair, his clothes. He struck at himself, throwing his body against the cage mesh. In the process, some of the beetles were stunned, and their own companions fell upon them, cracking through the iridescent shells and chewing to the soft organs within.

Lemelisk screamed and begged—to no avail. The agony went beyond his comprehension, beyond his imagination. His vision turned black after the piranha beetles devoured his eyes—but the pain continued for a long time afterward....

Later, Lemelisk had awakened, blinking his restored eyes, and was completely disoriented. He found himself in the same vaulted chamber, wrapped in a clean, white uniform. His body felt young and strong, without the paunch and the flab from spending too much time working on projects in his mind and too little effort maintaining his health.

Lemelisk bent his arms and looked at his hands, blinking in astonishment. Hearing a small buzz and clatter, he glanced over to find the wire-mesh cage still filled with buzzing, clacking piranha beetles that scampered up and down the walls, snapping their mandibles. Spattered patterns of fresh blood made arcs along the walls of the cage. Inside, he saw a carcass that had been stripped down to gnawed bones and shreds of clothing—the clothing he himself had worn only moments ago.

"You'll grow accustomed to your clone in a moment," the Emperor said, rubbing his knobby fingers over a strange ancient-looking artifact. "I trust that all of your memories have been transferred properly? It is an uncertain skill at best, and the Jedi I stole the technique from was reluctant to give me thorough instruction. But it seems to work."

Lemelisk nodded weakly, wanting to faint but knowing he didn't dare.

"Now don't fail me again, Lemelisk," the Emperor said. "I'd hate to have to think of an even worse execution for next time."

Simply hearing the word execution brought back to his mind the full horrors of the Emperor's executions, the excruciating deaths Palpatine had inflicted upon Lemelisk each time he made an error...

The deaths remained in Lemelisk's mind, ever-present shadowy nightmares—seven executions in all. Once, Palpatine had launched him out an airlock; the pain had been excruciating, though the death was mercifully swift as the sudden drop of pressure and the freezing cold destroyed his internal organs.

He also remembered being slowly lowered into a vat of molten copper, watching his body burn away inch by inch. (Why molten copper? Lemelisk had wondered. Finally one day, more than a month later, he asked the Emperor. Palpatine’s answer had proved surprising in its utter mundanity. “It’s what the smelter used that day.”)

Lemelisk had also been trapped in a vault filled with thickening acid mist so that his lungs dissolved and he coughed blood, and the acid continued to eat him from the inside out. The other deaths had been as imaginative and just as painful.

--Taken from Darksaber

The Death Star worked as planned, but fell victim to a design flaw at Yavin. As a result, the Emperor punished the engineer with the torture of flesh-eating piranha-beetles. Lemelisk died in agony, then awoke in the body of a clone. Motivated by fear, he set to work designing the second Death Stare, and also built the Tarkin super-laser. Lemelisk died seven times in total, dark side magic shuttling his consciousness through seven clones.

--Taken from The New Essential Guide to Characters

The idea that Palpatine will "possess" my team when I have Obsidian and Mordru who both also possess the power to possess others. Somehow i just don't see that one flying at all.

Ah now I see you thought I mean Palpatine possessing your team? No I meant the Sith spirits Palpatine summons via prep will.

Even if they do beat the Sith spirits in a battle of wills they will still be unable to move momentarily which will give my team the moment to strike yours.

Mordru has the capability of draining almost anything of Power. Even if we say he can't drain the Jedi and Sith he certainly can drain SBP, SA Supes and Hal. This means all will be weaker ( even More weaker than the Kryptonite ray and only spending 4 to 6 yrs under a yellow sun not your entire life, can do) while he get's stronger.

Hal ring had unlimited power during SA IIRC,it only ran out when 24 hours was up it is not like the current Gl rings. The effects of time manipulation would be null and void thanks to Hal (as I have shown above)

Courtesy of my prep on top of his Superman level Strangth and blunt force durability, massive level TP and TK Ultra will have the powers of Cyclotron Deathbolt and Amazingman. This will mean will have VAST energy manipulation, flight and additional Super Strength. Plus matter and power absorption. All this so far is adding up to three of your team falling in moments at best. Only Palpatine and Luke will be left. Ultra can probably solo them while my other team members all take on Luke ad Palpatine

Ultra will be busy fending off Sith spirits to even get the first strike vs my team giving Palpatine enough time to make a Force Storm:

Credit to Silver2467 for the scans and quotes:

Palpatine describes the creation of his Force Storm in his

Book of Anger

.

"I have learned that Anger and Will, joined together, are the greatest Power.

I have learned to meditate upon Anger and Will with clarity and precision, and I have learned to open the hidden reservoirs of Dark Side Power.

Anger concentrated by Will in the vital center of the body creates a portal through which vast energies are released—the energies of the dark side of the Force.

Standing watch with the mind, in my meditation of Anger, I have slain my enemies from great distances, through the dark side Power that permeates the galaxy. I have created lightning, and unleashed its destructive fire.

Using this knowledge, I can unleash the dark side energies that are all around us, even to shatter the fabric of space itself. In this way, I have created

storms

.

Through a simple act of Will, I can generate Force Storms, energy storms that are vastly destructive and virtually unstoppable. Although triggering such storms requires merely thought and inclination, I admit I am not yet able to completely control the phenomenon. Among my goals is to perfect this control."

--Taken from

Jedi vs Sith: The Essential Guide to the Force

"The churning energy mass of a Force Storm can consume everything it touches, for at its eye is pure hate. Just as a black hole devours a star, this storm can swallow armies and fold space."

--Taken from

Book of Sith: Secrets from the Dark Side

The effect of Force Storm is explained.

This is perhaps the single most destructive Force power known. This power allows the Jedi to twist the space-time continuum to create vast storms of force. The power also allows limited control of these storms. Capable of creating annihilating vortices, the storms can swallow whole fleets of spaceships or tear the surfaces off worlds.

--Taken from

Dark Empire Sourcebook

and

Tales of the Jedi Companion

"The Force Storm is truly an awe-inspiring demonstration of pure natural energy. After using the Force to open a hyperspace wormhole, tremendous shockwaves will ripple through the fabric of space. Due to the Force Storm's potential for abuse, the Council has recently classified it as a dark side power."
"The Reborn Emperor used this at Da Soocha. It has the power to kill worlds."
—Luke

--Taken from

The Jedi Path: A Manual for Students of the Force

Vast energy storms that connect wildly disparate spots across the galaxy, hyperspace wormholes are unpredictable and devastating. It was to the Rebel Alliance's detriment that Emperor Palpatine was able to not only control these storms, but to create them.

--Taken from

Handbook Volume Three: Dark Empire

Even if by some absolute miracle SBP and SA Supes aren't harmed or Depowered to a level I'm happy with what's to stop me from simply turning them into babies with Degaton's time powers ( scan above wouldn't load here.. No to be fair Ii'll simply de-age them a few years to when their powers were as weak as i was trying to achieve with the prep plans.

Also I would like to point out how are you going to destroy Palpatine? They only to beat him is by banishing his essence to Chaos and since none of the guys on your tea know anything about Chaos or are Force sensitives,How will they banish his essence?

So basically Palaptine and Luke within a minute, 2 tops will be facing all my team. They will also be facing EVERYTHING my team bring to the part. Every shadow for miles, 100's of mental constructs of BW's.

Already addressed this.

You say Luke has kept his emotions in check before, but he has also lost them. Empire strikes back the scene on the death star when he learns that Leia and Han are in danger. When faced with a few hundred of BW's mental constructs to fight ( some maybe in visages that trouble him) BW's own mental onslaught while Obsidian is also weighing in on his soul. Not to mention when Ultra finishes he joins this team assaulting Luke.

The instance you are talking about in ESB is Luke way before he becomes a Grand Master Jedi he was still a padawan then, Luke has been able to control his emotion when he fell into a mysteries trance in Star Wars a long Time Ago Volume 3. IN ROTJ Luke was able to set his emotion aside to free his father from Palpatine's grip and almost died doing it in the process. Dealing with inner demons should not be a problem for Luke.

SA Superman can't sun dip was only a post COIE thing.

Fair enough.

No evidence anywhere that sundipping increases resistance to weaknesses.

That's why I said hypothetical

Hal's TP resisting feats are woefully inadequate.

That's not going to matter much when your guys are trying to fend off Sith spirits.

Obsidian and Degaton's intangibility doesn't work like others. They don't change their density or speed up their atoms. Obsidian is a shadow that actually has no substance, it void/ lack of anything. Degaton does it much the way of Zoom, he's simply in another or parallel time. Just because they've done it before doesn't mean it works every time.

Different dimesnion you say? Hal has been able to recover the scattered body parts of the JLA when they were in a different dimension he could do the same with Obsidian and Degaton:

Sundipping either makes SBP 2 times or 100 times ( can't be both) more powerful. Two times seems pointless especially since he's only been around 6 or so years his power level is likely close to that of action 1. Two times a little over Luke Cage level won't cause my guys any reason for concern.

Why not? If being under a Blue Sun doubles there strength won't he be 200 times stronger? Yep I think he would.

Anyway I have to go sorry if I missed any points I'm pressed for time.

#28 Edited by beatboks1 (7221 posts) - - Show Bio

@dccomicsrule2011:

few things from your closing.

1. it will not be obvious during your prep that anything has changed for SBP as it will be the normal time line from their perspective. just like only those who went to the dawn of time in COIE were aware anything had changed.

2. I did address your sith spirits you must have missed it. Obsidian can be present in every shadow and can have as many of himself as he needs to fight the Sith Spirits. BW can also create 3 dimensional constructs that can fight on his behalf and has had them fight in multiple parts of the country.What I didn't cover hiwever was Mordru can simply make duplicates of himself and animate inanimate objects to serve his needs. Degaton can have alternate time duplicates ( he's gathered dozens of himself from different time lines). plus Ultra has dozens of back up genetically created bodies as back ups to transfer his brain into ( which he has controled to fight for him also). every member of my team can be fighting dozens or more opponents at once and leave the original free to still follow my plan. Frankly since Obsidian can be literally everywhere at once ( i'll post scans when home) can possess AND absorb souls he will be all I need to deal with the Sith spirits ( and so far he isn't doing much)

3. obsidian isn't from a different dimension when intangible he's abstract. his fathers more powerful green flame cant touch it so Hal certainly isnt.

4. taking down Palpatine will be childs play ( literally) Degaton can de- age him to an infant or young to before he had the level of power he has and anyone on my team can take him. the same can be done to luke to make him a padowan again and unable to resist he manipulatikns if Obsidian BW and Ultra . Mordru could also take on all Sith spirits and Palpatine. I only need a single member of my team to address this so the idea that everyone else is to busy dealing with sith spirirts is a fail.

#29 Edited by oceanmaster21 (8003 posts) - - Show Bio
#30 Edited by dccomicsrule2011 (24808 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1: Before I finish I would just like to address something,then we may call for votes.

I did address your Sith spirits you must have missed it. Obsidian can be present in every shadow and can have as many of himself as he needs to fight the Sith Spirits. BW can also create 3 dimensional constructs that can fight on his behalf and has had them fight in multiple parts of the country.What I didn't cover hiwever was Mordru can simply make duplicates of himself and animate inanimate objects to serve his needs. Degaton can have alternate time duplicates ( he's gathered dozens of himself from different time lines). plus Ultra has dozens of back up genetically created bodies as back ups to transfer his brain into ( which he has controled to fight for him also). every member of my team can be fighting dozens or more opponents at once and leave the original free to still follow my plan. Frankly since Obsidian can be literally everywhere at once ( i'll post scans when home) can possess AND absorb souls he will be all I need to deal with the Sith spirits ( and so far he isn't doing much)

The thing is though the Sith spirits are intangible and invisible and they are very very hard to detect,in fact they hide them selves from Force sensitives,who are in tuned to there power source yet they were unable to detect them so how do you figure non Force sensitives can do the same? When Luke founded his Jedi Praxeum on Yavin IV, he was unable to notice Exar Kun's spirit in the Massassi Temple's.

taking down Palpatine will be childs play ( literally) Degaton can de- age him to an infant or young to before he had the level of power he has and anyone on my team can take him. the same can be done to luke to make him a padowan again and unable to resist he manipulatikns if Obsidian BW and Ultra . Mordru could also take on all Sith spirits and Palpatine. I only need a single member of my team to address this so the idea that everyone else is to busy dealing with sith spirirts is a fail.

Does he have to blast them to do that? judging from the scan he does, both Luke and Palpatine has near relativistic combat speed and precog, they can dodge his ray and Luke can use Force Immersion and ability that allows him to become invisible and undetectable by any means,even Force sensitives can not see or detect Luke while he is using this ability, so I see no reason why Degaton will.

Combat speed feats for Palpatine:

Palpatine is near Light speed in combat

Sidious throws strokes with his blade so fast that Anakin is incapable of seeing his blows and instead can only see the "webs" left behind by the movements of the lightsabers as well as a black blur as Palpatine moves throughout the office. Anakin is fast enough to react to starfighters flying at substantial fractions of light speed and evade lightning bolts.

Obi-Wan was already making that exact move as Anakin spoke. But they were inverted to each other: breaking right shot him one way while Anakin whipped the other. The tri-fighters' cannons ripped space between them, tracking faster than their starfighters could slip. His onboard threat display chimed a warning: two of the droids had remote sensor locks on him. The others must have lit up his partner. "Anakin! Slip-jaws!"

"My thought exactly."

They blew past the tri-fighters, looping in evasive spirals. The droid ships wrenched themselves into pursuit maneuvers that would have killed any living pilot. The slip-jaws maneuver was named for the scissorlike mandibles of the Kashyyyk slash-spider. Droids closing rapidly on their tails, cannonfire stitching space on all sides, the two Jedi pulled their ships through perfectly mirrored rolls that sent them streaking head-on for each other from opposite ends of a vast Republic cruiser. For merely human pilots, this would be suicide. By the time you can see your partner's starfighter streaking toward you at a respectable fraction of lightspeed, it's already too late for your merely human reflexes to react.

But these particular pilots were far from merely human.

The Force nudged hands on control yokes and the Jedi starfighters twisted and flashed past each other belly-to-belly, close enough to scorch each other's paint.

Anakin's speeder shrieked through the rain, dodging forked bolts of lightning that shot up from towers into the clouds, slicing across traffic lanes, screaming past spacescrapers so fast that his shock-wake cracked windows as he passed.

Anakin blinked and rubbed his eyes again. Maybe he was still a bit flash-blind—the Korun Master seemed to be fading in and out of existence, half swallowed by a thickening black haze in which danced a meter-long bar of sunfire. Mace pressed back the darkness with a relentless straight-ahead march; his own blade, that distinctive amethyst blaze that had been the final sight of so many evil beings across the galaxy, made a haze of its own: an oblate sphere of purple fire within which there seemed to be dozens of swords slashing in all directions at once.

The shadow he fought, that blur of speed—could that be

Palpatine

?

Their blades flared and flashed, crashing together with bursts of fire, weaving nets of killing energy in exchanges so fast that Anakin could not truly see them—but he could feel them in the Force. The Force itself roiled and burst and crashed around them, boiling with power and lightspeed ricochets of lethal intent. And it was darkening.

He could feel the end of this battle approaching, and so could the blur of Sith he faced; in the Force, the shadow had become a pulsar of fear.

--Taken from

Revenge of the Sith

In the quotes above Palpatine is able to fight faster then Anakin can see,(the same person that was able to react to sub-light ships which are a respectable fraction of light speed,dodge lighting, and perceive events in a microsecond, and react in a millisecond)

Luke has been able to keep pace with Palpatine in combat,note Luke is not even in his prime yet:

I'm ready for votes if you are.

#31 Posted by dccomicsrule2011 (24808 posts) - - Show Bio
#32 Posted by NeonGameWave (7782 posts) - - Show Bio

@dccomicsrule2011: Both of you did a remarkable job! This was a phenomenal debate it was extremely hard for me to make a decision, which is why I believe this is a draw.

#33 Edited by beatboks1 (7221 posts) - - Show Bio

@dccomicsrule2011:

ok just to resppnd to your 2 new points.

1. shadows are also intangible. Add to that Obsidians soul based powers ( which is what spirits are) and his ability to sense, look into and absorb them and seeing the sporits wont be a problem. In JSA when an evil spirit threatened the team Obsidian sensed it when no one else could and sealed in those it was targeting for protection within his shadow form. the sporit couldn't get through. this was a spirit even the magic of Fate and Alan couldn't detect it's what he does. in JLA he sensed the presence of a cloaked enemy is space because of their souls. spirits wont benhisden from him, they cant.

2. your seriously going to use speed against a guy with clairvoyance and time powers?? Degaton altered the time flow for the person he made an infant how do you think he wont simply alter his own to be faster than Palpatine or Like cannppssibly be?? Zoom is faster than Flash because his power is over time se analagy works fine here. your not dodging his blasts no matter how damn fast you are

I'm ready for votes yeah.

#35 Posted by Dratini1331 (7028 posts) - - Show Bio

I vote Beatboks

#36 Posted by dondave (37384 posts) - - Show Bio
#37 Edited by Sovereign91001 (4403 posts) - - Show Bio
#38 Posted by Mr_Ingenuity (7512 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1: Classic knowledge is extensive, easily having countermeasures to dominate even Silverage versions.

#39 Posted by boschePG (2328 posts) - - Show Bio

@dccomicsrule2011: @beatboks1:

If I may ask a question before I vote? Luke and Palapatine are stated from EU. Didnt Luke succumb to the darkside again after the fall of the Jedi when he was rebuilding the Jedi order? If so, is EU before that moment or during. I only ask cuz the bloodlusted comment was mentioned during the battle.

#40 Edited by beatboks1 (7221 posts) - - Show Bio

@boschepg: sorry man I have no idea you'll have wait for dccomicsrules to reply to that one

#41 Posted by Juiceboks (8999 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm gonna have to with @beatboks1 His counters for the ridiculous SA heroes and his use of some of the most powerful beings in this tourney won it over for me.

#42 Edited by beatboks1 (7221 posts) - - Show Bio

@wardemon32: when does this round end?

seems to be stagnated

#43 Posted by mightyrearranger (1580 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm going to vote for @beatboks1 as well. Luke and Palpatine almost swayed my mind the other way, but beatboks had great counters for everything.

#44 Posted by Thedarklordpandamonium (4825 posts) - - Show Bio

Dccomics gets my vote