Wally West vs. Thanos - Thread Remake

@darkraiden: Hal can get "there" (we dunno where "there" is actually) in time because he's a GL and he's very fast. 5 minutes are like a lifetime for guys on that caliber of speed. And correct me if I'm wrong but aren't Thanos' shields always up?

@jashro44: The fan calculation isn't cannon. Almost light is whats cannon.

Technically the fan calculation is based on what is stated on panel. So again the scan can't be proven one way or the other.

Its best to just ignore the feat and dismiss it as WIS. The writer didn't know what he/she was writing.

It is very unreasonable to challenge the author himself. But you are forgiven.

No problem.

The magic part of the shield would create a barrier that has nothing to do with any physical method penetrating it. A magical defense would protect against people who could get in by other means.

I am not sure Flash, who is not magical, would be able to penetrate this kind of shield.

Wait what?

None of that matters, how are they going to get a hold of Thanos' shield to inspect it? is he going to give it to them? Thanos and flash aren't even in the same place until the fight starts, you can't physically examine the other person with prep...

I was just answering his question. Flash can beat Thanos even without knowledge of his shields.

Interesting. I still say what I said at first, that if wally can't get through the shields he loses, but if he can he can win. It totally depends on the phasing vs the shield, and that part is actually kind of interesting. But I've pretty much run out of steam on this topic so I think I'll just retire myself from it.

Good debate man ^_^

Thanos >>> silver surfer>= Flash people really over rate flash. Superman beats flash, WW beats flash and Batman with prep beats Flash. Even with morals off. I admit I find flash annoying and low ball him a bit, but this is ridiculous

ok that's enough guys, Flash is massively over-estimated in this thread.

first 'll correct some wrong Flash claims, than i'll discuss how Flash has noway to beat Thanos, while Thanos can stomp him

1st : the writer says clearly Flash was runing at speed less than the speed of light, and that's the most direct description to his speed, the other explanations shows how people materialized and not how fast Flash was running.

2nd : Flash can't run with FTL speed and stay in earth dimension, once he exceeds light speed he enters the speed force dimension.

3rd : there is no contradiction in Flash's under-light speed and how fast all the peolpe appeared, because simply Flash can jump through time, and hence can save as many of those people and such short time without going above the speed of light.

now back to the fight.

what Flash has :

• speed blitz : useless, Flash needs to get through Thanos shields that could resist blasts from Galactus level characters
• IMP : useless, same above. and Thanos durability proved to resist blasts from Galactus, Odin who oneshot SS and Drax (2 planet bust durable characters) proved to resist black hole with 2 light years diameter, proved to resist Giant Gas explosion... 1 hit or sextillion hit of IMP won't do a thing not even a tickle.
• speed steal : firsly Flash needs to get through energy field to do that. and it's useless anyway, agianst someone who manipulate energy at free will, and can generate kinetic energy from his cosmic energy, and doesn't need even to move when he can attack with energy blasts, energy fields, TK, matter manipulation, TP, astral projection...
• phasing : useless against energy fields
• time travel : irrelevent, because Thanos can do the same, and hence would make the fight enter an infinite loop.
• BFR to speed force : useless as Thanos proved can teleport through dimensions and realities.

what Thanos have :

• TP : Thanos can mind rape Wally in the first moment, before he speeds enough, the same thing happened to him over and over with Grodd.
• BFR : Thanos can teleport Wally even if he doesn't tag him, Thanos can teleport all the battle field including Wally to the core of the sun or the center of a black hole, no place to run for Flash, it's instant death to him, while Thanos can resist those places.
• clocking : Thanos can clock himself, Wally won't be able to find him, and given that Thanos is the best prep character with hax powers, he will make an easy suprise attack to kill the speedster
• matter manipulation : even if Thanos can catch Wally, he can transmute entire battle field into some kind of glue substence for example and slow Falsh if not stop him, he can then TK tear him, or TP mind rape him, or shoot him, or transmute him by matter manipulation. you choose guys.
• time manipulation : as Flash can escape through time, Thanos can also follow him through time
• sheer power : Thanos cosmic energy makes him untouchable and can use it to toast his enemy, as he did against Mentis who just by getting close to Thanos body, her molecules started to disintegrate
• energy Fields : fields that could resist Galactus level bieng blasts, and that phasing characters can't pass through it. Thanos can use them for defense, but also to lock up Flash in large area (where Flash run so no necessary have to locate him exactly) and toast him.

RESULT : Thanos stomps.

Same to you man.

I probably agree, if he can make it through the shields it will be difficult for Thanos to be able to win.

@all_mighty_beyonder said:

ok that's enough guys, Flash is massively over-estimated in this thread.

first 'll correct some wrong Flash claims, than i'll discuss how Flash has noway to beat Thanos, while Thanos can stomp him

1st : the writer says clearly Flash was runing at speed less than the speed of light, and that's the most direct description to his speed, the other explanations shows how people materialized and not how fast Flash was running.

2nd : Flash can't run with FTL speed and stay in earth dimension, once he exceeds light speed he enters the speed force dimension.

3rd : there is no contradiction in Flash's under-light speed and how fast all the peolpe appeared, because simply Flash can jump through time, and hence can save as many of those people and such short time without going above the speed of light.

now back to the fight.

what Flash has :

• speed blitz : useless, Flash needs to get through Thanos shields that could resist blasts from Galactus level characters
• IMP : useless, same above. and Thanos durability proved to resist blasts from Galactus, Odin who oneshot SS and Drax (2 planet bust durable characters) proved to resist black hole with 2 light years diameter, proved to resist Giant Gas explosion... 1 hit or sextillion hit of IMP won't do a thing not even a tickle.
• speed steal : firsly Flash needs to get through energy field to do that. and it's useless anyway, agianst someone who manipulate energy at free will, and can generate kinetic energy from his cosmic energy, and doesn't need even to move when he can attack with energy blasts, energy fields, TK, matter manipulation, TP, astral projection...
• phasing : useless against energy fields
• time travel : irrelevent, because Thanos can do the same, and hence would make the fight enter an infinite loop.
• BFR to speed force : useless as Thanos proved can teleport through dimensions and realities.

what Thanos have :

• TP : Thanos can mind rape Wally in the first moment, before he speeds enough, the same thing happened to him over and over with Grodd.
• BFR : Thanos can teleport Wally even if he doesn't tag him, Thanos can teleport all the battle field including Wally to the core of the sun or the center of a black hole, no place to run for Flash, it's instant death to him, while Thanos can resist those places.
• clocking : Thanos can clock himself, Wally won't be able to find him, and given that Thanos is the best prep character with hax powers, he will make an easy suprise attack to kill the speedster
• matter manipulation : even if Thanos can catch Wally, he can transmute entire battle field into some kind of glue substence for example and slow Falsh if not stop him, he can then TK tear him, or TP mind rape him, or shoot him, or transmute him by matter manipulation. you choose guys.
• time manipulation : as Flash can escape through time, Thanos can also follow him through time
• sheer power : Thanos cosmic energy makes him untouchable and can use it to toast his enemy, as he did against Mentis who just by getting close to Thanos body, her molecules started to disintegrate
• energy Fields : fields that could resist Galactus level bieng blasts, and that phasing characters can't pass through it. Thanos can use them for defense, but also to lock up Flash in large area (where Flash run so no necessary have to locate him exactly) and toast him.

RESULT : Thanos stomps.

This lol.

He is ducking. The previous page shows a blinking light in the eye of Thanos (i.e. the reflection of the Surfer in Thanos eye). Thanos actually sees the Surfer coming and ducks. Hope someone has the scan for that.

So....is this the part where Morrigan Freeman's epilogue starts and then credits role?

Soo yea Flash won. Can this get locked now?

Thanos also has the Infinity gauntlet. That gives him speed and strength that he normally doesn't have.

Actually I have yet to hear an argument as to how he gets through magic based shields. And mind you that is just one thing that could give Thanos a win.

Does it state anywhere he gets faster with the IG? I don't recall. Also the scan does show he wasn't at "full power", for whatever that is worth!

then you havent read the thread.

@man_of_miracles: Where does it say Thanos shields are magic based? Also, magic is just exotic energy. But still just energy.

1. He has mystical ability, his shields and powers have a mystical as well as cosmic base, I will try to find a good scan for it. But it is pretty well know that Thanos is a powerful magic user as well as cosmic energy user.

2. Incorrect, the idea of magic is that it does not function by the same rules as normal energy or else there would be no reason to have magic.

Nicely put.

Not particularly since that is incorrect.

So energy manipulators are magicians now?

he doesn't it that simple. Wally has no way to win. magical or not magical, he can't get through the shields. moreover there a million reason why Wally lose, while no reason why Thanos may lose. read my post above

An agreement on this thread is never going to be made.

Flash supporters are just going to say that Flash phases through the shields and blitzes him/speed steals him.

Thanos supporters are just going to say that Flash doesn't have the damage output to do that.

I don't really think either side is going to yield if they haven't by now.

And what's with all this back and forth about the nuke feat? I mean, one little statement suddenly invalidates what logic should tell everybody. Is everyone suddenly so nitpicky that they have to dissect that phrase, which is contradicted by the other information the feat provides?

Either way, does it even matter? Flash has plenty other FTL feats. I think everyone can agree he's way faster than Thanos.

Now if everybody doesn't(I wouldn't know, I don't have the time to read 216 comments) then there's a bit of a problem.

Jmarshmallow

you havent read the thread either. nothing new has been brought up that hasnt been talked about. wally wins. just go back and read.

i have read the entire thread, noting not a single of my points has been 100% faced with feats, instead of pure assumptions. would you like to re-post the answers ifyou think you find them to every of my points?

ive read every comment. this battle was won long ago. nothing new has been brought up. its already been explained. i dont care to debate about it though as i think talking about something that has already been settled is a waste of time. I'll see you around though. Take care.

Most of what you pointed out has been a point of discussion in this thread.

"What Flash have" was complete speculation and baseless. Also proved you're pro Thanos without giving Flash the benefit of the doubt, that's no discussion.

As to the "what Thanos have ":

• TP : Flash has Prep, in no way is he going to mind rape him. This part was already disproved.
• BFR : You gave this point to Thanos and a negative to Flash, why?
• clocking : Surprise attack a speedster? Really, that easy?
• matter manipulation : Your glue example would melt at the heat generated by Flash's feet if Flash stood half a millisecond still. At his speeds the material of the floor makes little difference.
• time manipulation : Another negative for Flash, yet a positive for Thanos, why?
• sheer power : Sheer Speed Force.
• energy Fields : More speculation that's been part of the greater topics in this thread.

oh boy...

very funny how you decide who won on your own, nothing in this thread proves Wally has even the smallest chances of victory.

and no one refuted any of my point.

so...

Thanos stomps

anyone who dare to refuse this fact, come at me bro or just accept the truth

i want to....with all due respect....say that "all mighty beyonder" has not read the thread like he claims. otherwise he wouldnt have listed those things since theyve ALREADY been talked about and its been explained how flash would win

Care to define it and the specifics on the shields for the debate to move along smoother? I do believe most magic to be a form of energy and due to its foreign nature to us, it is exotic.

@foreverevil: really , how would wally win? to be honest i don't care, im a fanboy for both characters so i'd just like to know who wins and why.

Um yes I actually have, the explanations offered are about a normal shield, unless I am mistaken Flash has never phased through a magic based shield.

Why don't you try paying attention, put away your pre-conceived notions and make an actual argument? otherwise, don't comment.

i didnt just come up with the idea. the post convinced me. Basically you showed up to the fight late talking about things that were already refuted. Again. Im not being antagonistic or mean, i sincerely ask you to just read the comments and youll see that people already talked about what youre talking about and then it was countered and that was all she wrote.

Despite this being common knowledge I will explain briefly.

Magic does not follow the same rules as other energy manipulation. If it did every energy user would be a Magician.

Example, if someone created two shields to keep Flash out, on magical and one cosmic energy based they would function in the following way.

Comsic: The cosmic shield, (or technological) would attempt to keep the Flash out based off molecular structure, or biological makeup or by using a wall of energy etc.

Magical: The magical shield is not a simple wall of energy, it does not follow the same physical rules. If you make a shield to keep out Flash magically, it would keep him out based on other factor, such as his soul, or the definition of his being. The phasing rules that he follows would be useless under magical circumstances. He has no magical acumen, unless his phasing has shown an ability to defy magic, (i mean has he been able to resist magic at all?) then I see no reason he would be able to phase through shields that are magically based.

Saying that Magic is simply "exotic" energy is incorrect, it doesn't even function by the same set of rules as regular energy.

read the thread bro

#236 Edited by Man_of_Miracles (1156 posts) - 5 minutes, 53 seconds ago - Show Bio

Um yes I actually have, the explanations offered are about a normal shield, unless I am mistaken Flash has never phased through a magic based shield.

Why don't you try paying attention, put away your pre-conceived notions and make an actual argument? otherwise, don't comment.

===================

sigh. look man. he doesnt need to phase thru. he can just speed steal. and magic is just a form of energy. blue beetle has said so and he countered with his tech. You talk about me having pre conceived notions but you know nothing of how i think. You assume you know and we all know what happens when you make asssuptions. I actually came in here thinking holy cow this is giong to be a slaughterstomp for thanos and then i learned about KC flash and then came to this battle and read all the comments and i easily saw that either thanos loses or the arguments for thanos were refuted and the thanos fans just arent good at debating. really though. i wont debate this until new info comes up. because all the arguments that are being brought up now have already been refuted.

@man_of_miracles: Sorry my friend but you are incorrect. An Omega Level mutant stated that magic is just exotic energy. He states it plainly in those exact words. then he proceeds to shut down the powers of a magic being. Google: Vulcan vs Adam Warlock. Also it says thanos has used mysticism before on himself. but I have not seen that he uses it often or put it in his shields. show the scans when you can

AND blue beetle has countered magic with his tech, after saying that magic is just another type of energy

1. So he can speed steal through a shield? I would like to see a scan of that.

2. Actually I have a read a lot of what you have written. You act as if you are unbiased ground (when you are actually looking for the DC guy to win), then act surprised when DC characters win. Oh and you don't really contribute much in the way of actually arguing points.

Look man, you can sit here and just say the same thing over and over. I have already said that I am not sure that Thanos even wins, but since I haven't heard and actual argument against penetrating magical shields, i will continue t ask.

3. Yeah and so what? I didn't say that magic isn't energy, i said it operates under a different and mostly randomly applied rule set that can't be just said to be "exotic", it is much more than that.

And i will take 50+ years of magic in comics operating under a different rule set than regular energy over a single panel statement by a character.

This is ridiculous, Thanos destroy Flash.

ok good ^^

first, i'm giving Thanos the background of protection, becuase this thread was going all the way wrong in thinking Wally wins (from my opinion)

what do you mean "what Flash have" is speculation? everyone of my points comes from Thanos/Flash feats, so care to explain with explicit point please.

for "what Thanos have" :

• TP :how prep gonna make him avoid TP? he's not supposed to start running before the fight begin, otherwise the fight will start before its time.
• BFR : of course it's negative to Wally, he can just BFR Thanos to speed force and Thanos can teleport back. In the other hand, Thanos can teleport Wally to center of black hole or core of the sun, Wally can't escape from there it's his grave.
• clocking : combine this with one of the other points. Also, Thanos is the best prep character, he's the master of surprises. while Wally has no clue to find Thanos, this advantage gives Thanos all the time he needs to elaborate the best anti-speedster counter attack
• matter manipulation : glue was just a lol idea, just to open your mind to what Thanos can do with his surrounding to stop Wally or at least slow him. what if he makes the ground like ice, or change density of the ground so flash will be fouled to lose his balance or something i can come up with a dozen of ideas from that.
• time manipulation : now this i didn't say it's negative to Wally.
• sheer power : what the hell sheer speed force gonna do??? i explained how Thanos's power cosmic clock his body and makes him untouchable. and will evaporate Wally's molecule in the first touch. what sheer speed force can do to Thanos? nothnig
• energy Fields : what the hell? what speculation? we have feats that prove Thanos has cosmic/mystic fields that withstand Glalactus level blasts and is impenetrable by phasing characters like Vision, what Wally has htta make you think he can phase through it easily with super speed? nothing you have but speculations.

Character statements are notoriously unreliable. In addition there are more instances of magic operating by a different rule set than by the same.

So let me get this straight, the Flash fans in this thread are now calling all energy manipulators magicians? my god this is just incredible.

You forgot about arguably Thanos's best ability, his legendary durability. I'm not convinced Flash can even hurt him, let alone kill/KO him.

1. im so damn frustrated. READ THE COMMENTS. Its already been shown dude. holy cow!!

2. Thats your opinion. 2a. cause im not looking to debate sometimes. sometimes im not in the mood and just try to correct people....like you.

3. so what? as long as you know that its just another form of energy we're all good

4. you can say whatever you want. but both marvel and dc characters have stated its just another form of energy so yea.

5. please dont keep this going. do you just want attention? i already told you its all already been talked about. either bring something new or different or dont post anything at all brosef

lmao, none of these new guys have read the thread but say they have all the while bringing up old stuff thats already been refuted.

"and for that reason, im out"

Again you have debated nothing. Well done.

Fallacious beliefs based on flawed character statements rather than a multitude of feats that suggest otherwise.

Here is a well stated definition of magic from the marvel comics database (yes I realize it is a database, but it is still a well stated definition), that way I don't have to keep trying to explain when people seem to not be capable of grasping the concept.

Magic Definition