Wally West vs Shrike

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uberhikari

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#51  Edited By uberhikari

@dratini1331:

That's a time paradox, you can't create yourself. Let's put it this way, you're born in the year 30 trillion, and jump to this time. However, someone else kills both your parents a year before you were born using time travel. Now all of the cause and effects that led to you have ceased, and you would no longer exist. You would never have existed. No matter what you do, it would have never happened because the original cause would never have happened. You could have an infinite number of clones, but it wouldn't mater since none of them would have even existed in the first place.

Your example fails to recognize causality. If you exist at two points in time simultaneously, they everyone does at all points in their life anyways, then killing you before your jump or any sort of actions would prevent those actions. It doesn't matter in what order you exist to everyone else, your own personal timeline is what matters.

Regardless of what time you jump to, your persona timeline is linear. Everything I've read on the Shrike says it was created, so how could it not be beaten in that manner? That's just like arguing flash can never lose since he has the capacity to exist beyond time and death.

Why do you keep ignoring what I write? I've already explained this to you multiple times: What you're saying is only true if you assume a linear notion of time. The shrike does NOT exist in a linear notion of time; the shrike exists within a curved space-time. In a curved space-time you can create yourself. Indeed, in a curved space-time effects can precede their causes. Why are you not understanding this? Physics tells us that causality is not a metaphysical necessity; causality is predicated on the type of space-time you inhabit. Please, stop ignoring what I write. Wally can NOT travel to the future and kill the shrike.

You're aware that the fastest wally has ever gone completely destroys the not-infinite speeds, right? not only that, but with boosts, he reached a point where he could exist and freely move while there was literally no time. That's infinite speed.

Not only that but Wally is entirely immune to entropy, as shown when he used it to kill death but survived. I have no idea what merlin sickness is, so I can't even comment on that, sorry :(

First, running without time doesn't mean infinite speed, it just means you can run outside of time. Saying that someone can run outside of time doesn't quantify how fast they're running. The shrike can slow time to the point that it is moving infinitely fast relative to everything else. That's infinite speed (in a manner of speaking).

Second, the entropic field is not entropy. It is a field that surrounds the shrike that causes those who encounter it to age backwards. For every amount of time that passes they age backwards and lose their memories accordingly, until they cease to exist. For example, if you encounter the shrike's entropic field, ten minutes later you will have aged backwards by 10 minutes and lost the last 10 minutes of your memories.

I'm pretty sure Wally loses this fight. All of Wally's hax is useless here but the shrike has a lot of hax.

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Dratini1331

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@uberhikari: I'm not ignoring what you write, you just can't explain it well, apparently. Either way, this feels like I'm talking to a wall. I concede then, fine, the Shrike wins. GG wp.

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uberhikari

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#53  Edited By uberhikari

@uberhikari: I'm not ignoring what you write, you just can't explain it well, apparently. Either way, this feels like I'm talking to a wall. I concede then, fine, the Shrike wins. GG wp.

Either I'm not explaining it well or you don't understand curved space-time. I suppose it could be both.

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Dratini1331

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@uberhikari: I bet it's more that I don't understand the character worth jack O.o he feels hard to understand without reading the books.

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uberhikari

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#55  Edited By uberhikari

@dratini1331 said:

@uberhikari: I bet it's more that I don't understand the character worth jack O.o he feels hard to understand without reading the books.

Well, the author pretty much left the character a blank. Sometimes he acts autonomously but he also appears to serve a master. His origins are completely ambiguous and uncertain and nothing is ever really explained. Even his appearance changes as the series progresses.

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KingOfAsh

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The Shrike has limitless speed (it was on multiple occassions described to "not so much move as cease to be there and suddenly be here." It gains its power from both the Machine Ultimate Intelligence and the Human Ultimate Intelligence, two abstract beings that exist far in the future.

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Redzkz

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Shrike can win.

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Eisenfauste

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Shrike kills him.

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MasterKungFu

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shrike