#1 Posted by Supermanwithatan01 (4639 posts) - - Show Bio

Wally West going 100% all out

vs

SA Hal Jordan

vs

SA Superman

vs Starheart Alan Scott

No morals

BFR allowed

Fight is on the JL tower

100% effort

#2 Edited by Dredeuced (6126 posts) - - Show Bio

Silver Age Superman goes so fast he destroys the universe/dimension they all reside in and all the others die. Presence stops him from destroying the multiverse later on.

#3 Posted by AllStarSuperman (26554 posts) - - Show Bio

^this could work, but SA supes was very waek to magic..

#4 Posted by Supermanwithatan01 (4639 posts) - - Show Bio

Silver Age Superman goes so fast he destroys the universe/dimension they all reside in and all the others die. Presence stops him from destroying the multiverse later on.

Wouldn't Wally steal his speed? and Wasn't SA Supes manhandled by Hal?

#5 Edited by Dredeuced (6126 posts) - - Show Bio

@supermanwithatan01 said:

@dredeuced said:

Silver Age Superman goes so fast he destroys the universe/dimension they all reside in and all the others die. Presence stops him from destroying the multiverse later on.

Wouldn't Wally steal his speed? and Wasn't SA Supes manhandled by Hal?

Wally's never gone so fast that God himself had to stop him from destroying everything that ever existed, so I'm not sure he could react to SA Superman blitzing that fast.

SA Supes was beaten by a lot of guys, SA is filled with jobbery -- also, if what you're talking about is that one scan where Hal is imitating kryptonite with his ring, I believe that was Bronze Age, though I suppose people frequently mix up BA and SA. This thread specifically stated 100% effort, and Superman's best showing I can think of in SA was the "going so fast he will destroy everything!" feat, which no one's come close to recreating and would be conceivably too fast for the other combatants to keep up with.

#6 Posted by Supermanwithatan01 (4639 posts) - - Show Bio

@supermanwithatan01 said:

@dredeuced said:

Silver Age Superman goes so fast he destroys the universe/dimension they all reside in and all the others die. Presence stops him from destroying the multiverse later on.

Wouldn't Wally steal his speed? and Wasn't SA Supes manhandled by Hal?

Wally's never gone so fast that God himself had to stop him from destroying everything that ever existed, so I'm not sure he could react to SA Superman blitzing that fast.

SA Supes was beaten by a lot of guys, SA is filled with jobbery -- also, if what you're talking about is that one scan where Hal is imitating kryptonite with his ring, I believe that was Bronze Age, though I suppose people frequently mix up BA and SA. This thread specifically stated 100% effort, and Superman's best showing I can think of in SA was the "going so fast he will destroy everything!" feat, which no one's come close to recreating and would be conceivably too fast for the other combatants to keep up with.

The logic behind that being Superman goes so fast he destroys everything inlcuding himself? Also that forwhatever reason Wally could not speed steal? SA Supes was nothing to Darkseid iirc

#7 Posted by Wardemon32 (5488 posts) - - Show Bio

@dredeuced:

Well that feat made no sense to me but, you know how it is with Supes. Flash speed stole and beat inntaneous teleportation. Shouldn't that be like 0 seconds or atleast a bit more or something? When Flash did that, nothing like that even happened. But if he were to get there in 0 seconds that would be dumb becuase that would be the fastest thing period which should do the same thing. If not EXTREMELY fast.

And didn't Spectre appear infront of Superman to stop him which means that Superman was already in motion though Spectre was still able to teleport right in-front of him? Which means Supermans speed shouldn't match up to Flash beating instaneous teleportation? Being the fact alone that Superman already had his head start before Spectre stopped him?

Flash was going light speed and had the whole town on fire. I can fetch the scan(probably) if you don't know what I'm talking about. But, Flash went a couple trillion times the speed of light and nothing like that happened?

Can you explain why that didn't happen with Flash? Or they just wanted to exaggerate Superman for that one?

#8 Posted by Dredeuced (6126 posts) - - Show Bio

@dredeuced said:

@supermanwithatan01 said:

@dredeuced said:

Silver Age Superman goes so fast he destroys the universe/dimension they all reside in and all the others die. Presence stops him from destroying the multiverse later on.

Wouldn't Wally steal his speed? and Wasn't SA Supes manhandled by Hal?

Wally's never gone so fast that God himself had to stop him from destroying everything that ever existed, so I'm not sure he could react to SA Superman blitzing that fast.

SA Supes was beaten by a lot of guys, SA is filled with jobbery -- also, if what you're talking about is that one scan where Hal is imitating kryptonite with his ring, I believe that was Bronze Age, though I suppose people frequently mix up BA and SA. This thread specifically stated 100% effort, and Superman's best showing I can think of in SA was the "going so fast he will destroy everything!" feat, which no one's come close to recreating and would be conceivably too fast for the other combatants to keep up with.

The logic behind that being Superman goes so fast he destroys everything inlcuding himself? Also that forwhatever reason Wally could not speed steal? SA Supes was nothing to Darkseid iirc

I don't think SA Supes ever even interacted with SA Darkseid, did he? I know he did stuff to Superboy and Supergirl. Admittely, these comics were decades before I was born so I'd be fine with being proven wrong.

SA Supes lost and won a lot of fights that made no sense. He'd literally invent a new power as it became relevant if the writers needed him to win. It's so dumb debating a guy who literally had to have the most powerful being in continuity tell him to chill it before he destroys everything. That feat alone puts Lucifer Morningstar to shame.

#9 Edited by Dredeuced (6126 posts) - - Show Bio

@wardemon32 said:

@dredeuced:

Well that feat made no sense to me but, you know how it is with Supes. Flash speed stole and beat inntaneous teleportation. Shouldn't that be like 0 seconds or atleast a bit more or something? When Flash did that, nothing like that even happened. But if he were to get there in 0 seconds that would be dumb becuase that would be the fastest thing period which should do the same thing. If not EXTREMELY fast.

And didn't Spectre appear infront of Superman to stop him which means that Superman was already in motion though Spectre was still able to teleport right in-front of him? Which means Supermans speed shouldn't match up to Flash beating instaneous teleportation? Being the fact alone that Superman already had his head start before Spectre stopped him?

Flash was going light speed and had the whole town on fire. I can fetch the scan(probably) if you don't know what I'm talking about. But, Flash went a couple trillion times the speed of light and nothing like that happened?

Can you explain why that didn't happen with Flash? Or they just wanted to exaggerate Superman for that one?

Flash didn't "beat" instantaneous teleportation. He beat the time it took the Cosmic Gamblers to materialize during instant teleportation(Zeptoseconds). You can't actually beat something if it IS instant -- only tie it or use time travel. It also took a lot of setup and prep for him to get the Speed given to him in time to race the Gamblers.

There's no explanation behind the Superman thing because they didn't explain things in the Silver Age -- logic doesn't apply and that's why they're so damned powerful. It's like when Barry punched Thawne so hard he went thousands of years into the future, but never punched anyone that hard again. Silver Age stuff is dumb and inconsistent, that's the entire reason they did COIE.

#10 Posted by Supermanwithatan01 (4639 posts) - - Show Bio

@dredeuced:

Well that feat made no sense to me but, you know how it is with Supes. Flash speed stole and beat inntaneous teleportation. Shouldn't that be like 0 seconds or atleast a bit more or something? When Flash did that, nothing like that even happened. But if he were to get there in 0 seconds that would be dumb becuase that would be the fastest thing period which should do the same thing. If not EXTREMELY fast.

And didn't Spectre appear infront of Superman to stop him which means that Superman was already in motion though Spectre was still able to teleport right in-front of him? Which means Supermans speed shouldn't match up to Flash beating instaneous teleportation? Being the fact alone that Superman already had his head start before Spectre stopped him?

Flash was going light speed and had the whole town on fire. I can fetch the scan(probably) if you don't know what I'm talking about. But, Flash went a couple trillion times the speed of light and nothing like that happened?

Can you explain why that didn't happen with Flash? Or they just wanted to exaggerate Superman for that one?

Are you referring to when Wally saved the people from the Nuclear power plant explosion and his shoes were kinda melting and he evacuated them in like a picosecond? It was like millions of people in .00001 second?

#11 Edited by Dredeuced (6126 posts) - - Show Bio

@supermanwithatan01 said:

@wardemon32 said:

@dredeuced:

Well that feat made no sense to me but, you know how it is with Supes. Flash speed stole and beat inntaneous teleportation. Shouldn't that be like 0 seconds or atleast a bit more or something? When Flash did that, nothing like that even happened. But if he were to get there in 0 seconds that would be dumb becuase that would be the fastest thing period which should do the same thing. If not EXTREMELY fast.

And didn't Spectre appear infront of Superman to stop him which means that Superman was already in motion though Spectre was still able to teleport right in-front of him? Which means Supermans speed shouldn't match up to Flash beating instaneous teleportation? Being the fact alone that Superman already had his head start before Spectre stopped him?

Flash was going light speed and had the whole town on fire. I can fetch the scan(probably) if you don't know what I'm talking about. But, Flash went a couple trillion times the speed of light and nothing like that happened?

Can you explain why that didn't happen with Flash? Or they just wanted to exaggerate Superman for that one?

Are you referring to when Wally saved the people from the Nuclear power plant explosion and his shoes were kinda melting and he evacuated them in like a picosecond? It was like millions of people in .00001 second?

He is referring to The Flash: The Human Race story arc where Wally challenges two seemingly omnipotent cosmic gamblers in a race across the universe to Earth -- if they win, he becomes their slave and they destroy the Earth, if he wins, they leave the Earth alone. Wally beat them by taking the speed of every living being on Earth -- including every superhero, and an entire race of radio-wave people. They claimed instant teleportation and they only took the bet because they believed it impossible to lose because of instant teleportation. Wally then beat them. It shows, in the scan, that they are in the process of materializing from their teleportation when Wally gets to the Earth, giving the illusion that he beat them there despite not, technically, travelling instantly.

#12 Posted by Wardemon32 (5488 posts) - - Show Bio

@dredeuced: But, even if it would have taken time for Spectre also and Spectre still got to what ever point to stop him which doesn't make any sense. The logic in that feat is VERY, VERY, stupid.

@supermanwithatan01: Yea, but there's also when he broke the time barrier(keep in mind he was slower then), scanned ahlf a million faces, and saved the people from the nuke, or when he turned on every radio at the same time. None of what Superman did actually happened with Flash

And for that turning the radio, he would have to be VERY fast with that because he would still have to look around for all of them and he'd be also have to travel WAYYYYYYYYY faster than the speed of light

#13 Edited by Dredeuced (6126 posts) - - Show Bio

@wardemon32 said:

@dredeuced: But, even if it would have taken time for Spectre also and Spectre still got to what ever point to stop him which doesn't make any sense. The logic in that feat is VERY, VERY, stupid.

@supermanwithatan01: Yea, but there's also when he broke the time barrier(keep in mind he was slower then), scanned ahlf a million faces, and saved the people from the nuke, or when he turned on every radio at the same time. None of what Superman did actually happened with Flash

And for that turning the radio, he would have to be VERY fast with that because he would still have to look around for all of them and he'd be also have to travel WAYYYYYYYYY faster than the speed of light

If you assume there is 1 radio for every 1 square kilometer of land (lowballing it for ease of math, there would be a much higher density), to reset every radio on earth to the right frequency in a zeptosecond, Wally would have to be going this many times the speed of light:

500,346,910,000,000,000,000,000 or 500 sextillion times the speed of light. If you could give me an accurate number of radio location density on Earth I could be more exact but that's just the easiest math I could do, and this also ignores the amount of time it takes him to set the frequencies like he did.

That said, I do not believe Wally can speed steal fast enough to effect SA Superman (his speed steal takes time, however minuscule that time is, to operate).

#14 Edited by Wardemon32 (5488 posts) - - Show Bio

@dredeuced: OH MY GOD! I am deff using that in threads now. I knew it was extremely fast but I didn't know it was THAT fast. The thing about that feat is that it could be that he was actually just faster than Flash, or he was just exagerated in inconsistency like with Flash just running light speed and taking out a town as to him running millions of times faster than light speed and nothing happened.

Well IDK.

#15 Edited by Dredeuced (6126 posts) - - Show Bio

@wardemon32: It's not really an applicable feat, though, because it took the entire Earth and an entire other planet of Radiowave People prepping to give him all their speed for the briefest instance.

Flash controls his relativistic effect on his surroundings. He can go near lightspeed without affecting anything around him or create a slipstream/whirlwind if he wants to.

But yes SA Superman has threatened the entire DCU according to the Presence and that's a bigger feat than anything anyone else in this fight has. He's certainly jobbed plenty of times before, but if the 100% effort statement in the OP means no jobbing like I think it does, then this should be a stomp.

The Human Race feat is pretty neat, though. It's the fastest calculated operative speed I've ever seen (instant teleportation/omnipresence is faster, but he was actively doing stuff like talking to his wife and resetting radios at that speed so it was more than just travel speed).

#16 Posted by xeon1cs (1483 posts) - - Show Bio

Oh god. SA Hal Jordan. Literally the dumbest man to ever exist in comics.

#17 Edited by Dredeuced (6126 posts) - - Show Bio

@xeon1cs said:

Oh god. SA Hal Jordan. Literally the dumbest man to ever exist in comics.

The world's most laughable pedophile.

#18 Posted by Supermanwithatan01 (4639 posts) - - Show Bio

@dredeuced: haha nice scans but quick ?, what do you think of Bart (full power) vs Wally (full power) in terms of most powerful flash?

#19 Posted by Dredeuced (6126 posts) - - Show Bio

@dredeuced: haha nice scans but quick ?, what do you think of Bart (full power) vs Wally (full power) in terms of most powerful flash?

Bart is theoretically the most powerful Flash when he took both Barry and Wally's speed to go back to Earth, and he did school Zoom twice in a row(but Zoom was trying to help him at Iris' request so ehhh), which is something Wally never did. That said, unless it's alternate future Bart, he does not know how to Speed Steal and that would be Wally's trump card in the fight. No matter how fast Bart had gotten, Wally could take it away from him. Even if Bart could speed steal, Wally was the only Flash who Savitar could not speed steal from (bart, jay, and max and the quicks were all susceptible), so he's got an argument for resisting it.

#20 Posted by ComicStooge (16501 posts) - - Show Bio

@xeon1cs said:

Oh god. SA Hal Jordan. Literally the dumbest man to ever exist in comics.

The world's most laughable pedophile.

I haven't laughed this hard since the Badass of the Week article on Australia.

#21 Posted by beatboks1 (7884 posts) - - Show Bio

Silver Age Superman goes so fast he destroys the universe/dimension they all reside in and all the others die. Presence stops him from destroying the multiverse later on.

Except that won't destroy Alan and would actually play into what a blood lusted Alan Scot would want ( as Blood lusted he is the unbound starheart and wants to destroy everything).

Silver Age Superman was VERY weak to magic.

In these images here from New adventures of Superboy 25 (IIRC) Superboy was soundly beaten by a Lord of Chaos called Dr Chaos ( very similar in appearance to Dr Fate but blue where he was gold and gold where he was blue). Alan has defeated Mordru several times and he is the MOST powerful Lord of Chaos and has feats post COIE that match any SA LOO or LOC.

SA Hal will definitely be the first to fall

#22 Edited by beatboks1 (7884 posts) - - Show Bio

@dredeuced said: If your referring to these It was not Superman's speed that threatened anything. It was the fact he was going to far and would see things mortal eyes weren't meant to see. If it was his speed than Spectre would have also stopped Supergirl who was traveling just as fast. didn't because she was unconscious, her eyes were closed and she wouldn't see anything so was not a threat. Superman's speed cannot destroy the universe