Wally West has absorbed the speedforce and has all of its abilities. Kal Kent is under the supersun. The fight is in the 853th century. Try to be respectful and logical. Thanks all.
I will probably be the advocate in this... Im a Wally West Fan and a Superman Prime (earth prime) fanboy... So I like Both Characters of the Flash and Supes.
"hmm...could speed force dumping and stealing will work on Kal? How good is Kal's Reaction timing? "
Speed steal and lend works on anything with Kinetic energy. Anything in motion or the attempt there-of. Speed force enables Wally to turn Kal into a statue and even use Kals speed after turning him into a statue...
"hmm...could speed force dumping and stealing will work on Kal? How good is Kal's Reaction timing? "
Speed steal and lend works on anything with Kinetic energy. Anything in motion or the attempt there-of. Speed force enables Wally to turn Kal into a statue and even use Kals speed after turning him into a statue... "
ok then, unless Kal has attosecond reaction time or the like Wally takes him down under a barage of IMP while he is frozen as a statue...
"hmm...could speed force dumping and stealing will work on Kal? How good is Kal's Reaction timing? "
Speed steal and lend works on anything with Kinetic energy. Anything in motion or the attempt there-of. Speed force enables Wally to turn Kal into a statue and even use Kals speed after turning him into a statue... "
ok then, unless Kal has attosecond reaction time or the like Wally takes him down under a barage of IMP while he is frozen as a statue... "
attosecond would be too late. I have a scan of Wally West in the future saying he could squeeze a thousand years out of a second...
the embodiment of speed and inertia/kenetic energy of the universe itself. with it Wally has been shown to out run entropy and do all kinds of crazy stuff...he can also dump someone in it, steal their speed or locomotion, punch them with fists heavier than the weight of the universe etc...
"hmm...could speed force dumping and stealing will work on Kal? How good is Kal's Reaction timing? "
Speed steal and lend works on anything with Kinetic energy. Anything in motion or the attempt there-of. Speed force enables Wally to turn Kal into a statue and even use Kals speed after turning him into a statue... "
ok then, unless Kal has attosecond reaction time or the like Wally takes him down under a barage of IMP while he is frozen as a statue... "
attosecond would be too late. I have a scan of Wally West in the future saying he could squeeze a thousand years out of a second... "
an attosecond would give him billions of years in a second therotically...lol
the embodiment of speed and inertia/kenetic energy of the universe itself. with it Wally has been shown to out run entropy and do all kinds of crazy stuff...he can also dump someone in it, steal their speed or locomotion, punch them with fists heavier than the weight of the universe etc... "
When has he absorbed the entire Speed Force? I only recall Bart doing that.
"hmm...could speed force dumping and stealing will work on Kal? How good is Kal's Reaction timing? "
Speed steal and lend works on anything with Kinetic energy. Anything in motion or the attempt there-of. Speed force enables Wally to turn Kal into a statue and even use Kals speed after turning him into a statue... "
ok then, unless Kal has attosecond reaction time or the like Wally takes him down under a barage of IMP while he is frozen as a statue... "
attosecond would be too late. I have a scan of Wally West in the future saying he could squeeze a thousand years out of a second... "
an attosecond would give him billions of years in a second therotically...lol "
@CosmicSpiral: Allows Wally to turn Kal into a statue, allows him to steal kinetic energy from ANY object including Kal (hence the statue part) and making himself (Wally) faster. The speed force allowed Bart to create force avatars. It's also used for accelerated healing. Time travel. I think the most unique aspect of the speed force is the most interesting. Wally can, and has, manipulate every individual molecule in his body. And not just his own body but other objects. He can phase through things, control its kinetic frequency on a subatomic level, and cause instability in said molecules. Also the speed force allows the speedster, in this case Wally, to learn and remember anything at a superaccelerated rate. At one point in time batman makes a statement in the future about having to defeat/outsmart a supercomputer that will destroy the universe but says "But then again, we have the Flash"... Just google the speed force... Wikipedia's refrence is relatively good but doesn't mention all aspects of the speed force. It's best to just find scans...
"hmm...could speed force dumping and stealing will work on Kal? How good is Kal's Reaction timing? "
Speed steal and lend works on anything with Kinetic energy. Anything in motion or the attempt there-of. Speed force enables Wally to turn Kal into a statue and even use Kals speed after turning him into a statue... "
ok then, unless Kal has attosecond reaction time or the like Wally takes him down under a barage of IMP while he is frozen as a statue... "
attosecond would be too late. I have a scan of Wally West in the future saying he could squeeze a thousand years out of a second... "
an attosecond would give him billions of years in a second therotically...lol "
exactly how small is an astro second? "
1 attosecond is to one second what 1 second is to the age of the universe (14 billion years), its 1 million times faster than a nano second which is 1 billion times faster than a second..@CosmicSpiral said:
" @difficlus said:
" @CosmicSpiral said:
" What does absorbing the Speed Force do? "
the embodiment of speed and inertia/kenetic energy of the universe itself. with it Wally has been shown to out run entropy and do all kinds of crazy stuff...he can also dump someone in it, steal their speed or locomotion, punch them with fists heavier than the weight of the universe etc... "
When has he absorbed the entire Speed Force? I only recall Bart doing that. "
i never said he absorbed it, i said with the speed-force he can do those things...
@WhiteLantern#1:@difficlus: I know what Wally can do as the Flash. I asking how Wally + entire Speed Force is any different than Wally + access to Speed Force.
@difficlus: ha oh. Well either way Wally wins the the reaction time hands down. idk.. I made this fight because it kinda seems that outside of non-corporal entities that are bound to a body, Wally could be a top 3 most powerful characters. I'm not talking about the omni-anything characters... You know what I mean..? I mean really think about the Speed force logically. All of it's components and contents, and then think if Wally absorbed it all (Barry created it soo perhaps Barry will be like the speed god if he unleashes his full potential) then I think he'd be unstoppable... Lol Ik how that sounds but its harder to argue than most people think. Wally always jokes and plays he never really takes a fight seriously. But if he had the whole speedforce and was pissed... Idk who would stop him.. or what...
" @WhiteLantern#1:@difficlus: I know what Wally can do as the Flash. I asking how Wally + entire Speed Force is any different than Wally + access to Speed Force. "
im guessing it gives him extra speed...and extra abilities...
"hmm...could speed force dumping and stealing will work on Kal? How good is Kal's Reaction timing? "
Speed steal and lend works on anything with Kinetic energy. Anything in motion or the attempt there-of. Speed force enables Wally to turn Kal into a statue and even use Kals speed after turning him into a statue... "
ok then, unless Kal has attosecond reaction time or the like Wally takes him down under a barage of IMP while he is frozen as a statue... "
attosecond would be too late. I have a scan of Wally West in the future saying he could squeeze a thousand years out of a second... "
an attosecond would give him billions of years in a second therotically...lol "
exactly how small is an astro second? "
1 attosecond is to one second what 1 second is to the age of the universe (14 billion years), its 1 million times faster than a nano second which is 1 billion times faster than a second.. @CosmicSpiral said:
" @difficlus said:
" @CosmicSpiral said:
" What does absorbing the Speed Force do? "
the embodiment of speed and inertia/kenetic energy of the universe itself. with it Wally has been shown to out run entropy and do all kinds of crazy stuff...he can also dump someone in it, steal their speed or locomotion, punch them with fists heavier than the weight of the universe etc... "
When has he absorbed the entire Speed Force? I only recall Bart doing that. "
i never said he absorbed it, i said with the speed-force he can do those things... "
@Thor's hammmer: the smallest measure of time ever recorded...oh sorry i attosecond is 1 BILLION times faster than a nanosecond not 1 million. and 1 nano second is 1 billion times faster than a second. so thus its a quintrillion times faster than a second or 10^18. its the time taken for light to travel the length of 3 hydrogen molecules. But wally has some crazy speed feats like rescuing half a million people from a nuke that already exploded in a PICOSECOND, thats 1 thousand times faster than a nanosecond...
@CosmicSpiral: The speed force has unlimited potential, Wally hasn't exhibited all of the speed force abilities, I'm saying the more of the speed force he has, the more powerful he is... and If he has all of its abilities in his arsenal, then he could use them. Basically It's like having Direct tv, but not all the channels. I'm just upgrading Wally to having ALL of the abilities (which theoretically at one point he did) and giving him all of the speed force (meaning no one can control him and he doesn't share any of its vast power, because no one is drawing from the powersource but him, technically he would be the powersource but thats actually Barry Allen...)
" @CosmicSpiral: The speed force has unlimited potential, Wally hasn't exhibited all of the speed force abilities, I'm saying the more of the speed force he has, the more powerful he is... and If he has all of its abilities in his arsenal, then he could use them. Basically It's like having Direct tv, but not all the channels. I'm just upgrading Wally to having ALL of the abilities (which theoretically at one point he did) and giving him all of the speed force (meaning no one can control him and he doesn't share any of its vast power, because no one is drawing from the powersource but him, technically he would be the powersource but thats actually Barry Allen...) "
When was this?
Wally's access to the Speed Force never limited his own abilities. A Speed Force user's abilities are determined by how much imagination and intelligence they have.
"@Thor's hammmer: the smallest measure of time ever recorded...oh sorry i attosecond is 1 BILLION times faster than a nanosecond not 1 million. and 1 nano second is 1 billion times faster than a second. so thus its a quintrillion times faster than a second or 10^18. its the time taken for light to travel the length of 3 hydrogen molecules. But wally has some crazy speed feats like rescuing half a million people from a nuke that already exploded in a PICOSECOND, thats 1 thousand times faster than a nanosecond... "
so if a blast travels from the earth to the moon in astroseconds it's trillions of times FTL right
" @CosmicSpiral: The speed force has unlimited potential, Wally hasn't exhibited all of the speed force abilities, I'm saying the more of the speed force he has, the more powerful he is... and If he has all of its abilities in his arsenal, then he could use them. Basically It's like having Direct tv, but not all the channels. I'm just upgrading Wally to having ALL of the abilities (which theoretically at one point he did) and giving him all of the speed force (meaning no one can control him and he doesn't share any of its vast power, because no one is drawing from the powersource but him, technically he would be the powersource but thats actually Barry Allen...) "
When was this?
Wally's access to the Speed Force never limited his own abilities. A Speed Force user's abilities are determined by how much imagination and intelligence they have. "
Thats not neccissarily true. Bart Allen absorbed the speed force and was a beast. He had wayyy more power than he knew what to do with. Thats because he was the only Flash. And I think it was in Rebirth that it was stated Wally had "mastered the speed force and its abilities" which implies he had the potential for every ability. Either way lol it really doesn't matter were debating about Flashes and potential. Its the same idea though. This is the Flash at his most powerful vs a Most powerful version of Superman. (Besides prime 1mil. but not enough feats)... Who do you think wins? and Why?
Yeah, I mean, if you're way faster than the person who's attacking you and you can hurt them, you're going to win.
Having a punch with an infinite mass and being able to turn people to statues and vibrate their molecules so they explode - is overkill for the Flashes.
U now in theory u cant travel faster than the speed of light, Because if u do then your just traveling into the future.. But this being the comic book world anything is possible Lol..
"U now in theory u cant travel faster than the speed of light, Because if u do then your just traveling into the future.. But this being the comic book world anything is possible Lol.."
Actually its called warpspeed. Its not going intot he future but by bending space and time you bring the location to you. I saw this on Discovery channel. Its possible to do it but if they try how would a ship be able to stand to those speeds?
"@Thor's hammmer: the smallest measure of time ever recorded...oh sorry i attosecond is 1 BILLION times faster than a nanosecond not 1 million. and 1 nano second is 1 billion times faster than a second. so thus its a quintrillion times faster than a second or 10^18. its the time taken for light to travel the length of 3 hydrogen molecules. But wally has some crazy speed feats like rescuing half a million people from a nuke that already exploded in a PICOSECOND, thats 1 thousand times faster than a nanosecond... "
so if a blast travels from the earth to the moon in astroseconds it's trillions of times FTL right "
Yoctosecond is an attosecond divided by 1 million or a 0.000 000 000 000 000 000 000 001 of a second.
If you could travel 1 inch in a yoctosecond in theory you could cover every square inch of the universe and return to your orginal location to watch the light appear to make yourself leave :P
"This fight doesn't even boil down to just speed. Kal in a beat down. He has so many more options, varieties and intelligence, not even close. "
So, if I have a gun, a knife, a sword, karate skills, and my own intelligence - I can beat a Nascar that's, hypothetically, going 500 miles an hour and running me down before I could even think the phrase " what the fu-" ?
@difficlus: unless you have a scan showing him reacting in atto second, there is no proof of it, plus what wally says and can do have proven to just intimidations in the past
Kal Kent has super ESP which can give him the ability to react (along with his ability to generate billions of scenarios in his head). He is also FTL, possibly not at the level of Wally, but he is FTL. He also has some form of telepathy, and his Force vision could immobilize Wally before Wally gets a chance to move and/or immobilize Kal.
Kal could then easily KO Wally.
But The DC one million characters don't have very good showings against the JLA, though they are from more than 800 centuries in the future. Big Barda gave fuuture WW a challnge. Batman and Aquaman took on Zauriel. Huntress and Plastic man took out John Fox/Flash. The one million guys were holding back, but still, it shouldn't have even looked like a challenge.
Kal woulld win because of his ESP. Without it Wally would stomp.
Wally wins this fight. With full access to the Speed Force, he'd be nearly unstoppable. He could simply punch Kal in the face at 100000000000000000000000000000000 miles per hour (Infinite Mass Punch and all that). The only people who could stop Wally at this point would be some of the top-tier cosmic beings.
"Kal Kent has super ESP which can give him the ability to react (along with his ability to generate billions of scenarios in his head). He is also FTL, possibly not at the level of Wally, but he is FTL. He also has some form of telepathy, and his Force vision could immobilize Wally before Wally gets a chance to move and/or immobilize Kal. Kal could then easily KO Wally. But The DC one million characters don't have very good showings against the JLA, though they are from more than 800 centuries in the future. Big Barda gave fuuture WW a challnge. Batman and Aquaman took on Zauriel. Huntress and Plastic man took out John Fox/Flash. The one million guys were holding back, but still, it shouldn't have even looked like a challenge. Kal woulld win because of his ESP. Without it Wally would stomp. "
You are assuming that Kal Kent can think faster than Wally can KO him. Even if he could, you are assuming that being able to know what Wally is going to do - will give him the ability to dodge him.
You're assuming he would get the chance to use Force Vision before Wally has even moved.
If Wally is as fast as everyone says, it's safe for me to assume that Wally will have him out before he can finish thinking "oshi-"
All of the Speed Force? Kal is up against someone nigh-omnipresent, someone that can speed steal, someone that could IMP him to death. Wally wins this in an epic curbstomp.
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