Wally West against Earth New-52

@dextersinister: I believe it's permanent that Boston can't possess people

@reaverlation: I need you to clarify, he could possess people in the New 52, has he lost that ability because I saw him use it pretty late into Swamp Thing.

@dextersinister: Don't remember tbh.Lack of funds mean lack of keeping up.Maybe someone else can confirm

Wally can't beat everyone due exhaustion,isn't because he is a speedster would be free of that burden. Not to mention that people far above their abilities or they would not be affected by it.

Wally can't defeat:

1. The Spectre
2. Pahntom Stranger
3. Deadman (a ghost you know...)
4. Swamp Thing
5. Doomsday
6. Nightmare Nurse
7. Abigail Arcane (Avatar of the Rot)
8. Golden Glider (basically a spirit)
9. First Born
10. Dr. Xa-Du (Phantom King)
11. Enchantress (Withou June Moon)
12. Brother Eye (He no longer have a ''body'',now is a virus.)

I'm pretty sure this type of battle is banned...

Or highly discouraged.

@matchesmalone21: I doubt Wally would get exhausted as Wally has been able to run for days on end.Also I believe Spectre and Stranger aren't allowed here.But I can still see Wally losing due to some characters he might not be able to beat

Wally loses if kyle rayner counts

Red Hood one shots

Op doesn't specified who is allowed or not...so they're i. :D

1: OP Said no Spectre(well, no Jim Corrigan but that's synonymous).

2: This one could be a problem, I guess, but I'm not sure if he's immune to BFR or not, his capabilities are a bit erratic. He certainly can't die, traditionally, so BFR is the main option and this is one of the dozens of characters that would make Wally unable to win round 2.

3: Already dead, why does he have to be killed? Deadman meets the stipulation from the outset of the fight.

4: Same thing as 2, really. Wally can't permanently kill him through physical means, but Swamp thing should probably be able to be BFR if Wally just grabs Holland's main body and tosses it to another dimension as soon as he realizes he can regenerate from nothing.

5: What has New 52 Doomsday done that makes you think Wally couldn't put him down? Wally already doesn't win round 2 but I don't even think New 52 Doomsday hinders him there, either.

6: What the heck has nightmare nurse done? This doesn't seem like an obstacle at all.

7: This is similar to Swamp Thing.

8: Glider's powers are intangibility, flight, invisibility and weird scarf things. Wally has shown himself very capable of forcing someone tangible (and she DOES have a tangible form, it's how her powers interact with things) and she's visible to people at superspeed ala Barry witnessing her assassination attempt on Elias.

9: Frankly, this is similar to Doomsday. First Born's powerful but I don't see why he's much more than a speed bump to Wally. Even if the godly immortality thing is there he's imminently BFRable.

10: Like most Kryptonians, not really a threat. Also, I mean, clearly beaten by BFR.

11: Ditto to Nightmare Nurse. I've read JLDark and I don't see why these pose an encumbrance to Wally in either round.

12: Brother Eye isn't alive so not really something Wally has to kill.

I think it's very clear Wally doesn't have a chance in round 2. Without BFR there are just too many beings who can infinitely regenerate that Wally couldn't possibly deal with outside of BFR. Round 1 is a lot more in Wally's favor but then we start getting into odd situations like: Does Captain Atom count as being on Earth? He kind of exists everywhere in everytime but if that was a qualification then The Presence would count as being on Earth because he's omnipresent. Do we just count guys who mostly hang around Earth or are there right now? It gets confusing at that point. This is kind of the deal with fights that are most of a comic universe, there's lots of factors and the clarification on who's qualified is murky. Frankly, I haven't read every New 52 title so I can't safely say that Wally could even win round 1 -- and honestly, he probably can't. Just finding every living person in the world would be kind of a task considering all the hideouts and junk. Then he'd have to find out who he could and could not kill easily, because if he's moving at extreme speeds then he won't even notice the regenerators regenerating after he pastes them -- he'd have to come back to find them unable to be killed then BFR them. This wastes a lot of time because it can take a few minutes for these guys to reform and doing it to each one eats away at his time.

Beyond that there might just be some characters I'm not aware of who Wally doesn't have a conceivable means to kill and are possibly immune to his BFR or whatever. Heck, maybe the second Wally punches Vibe in an attempt to kill him Vibe's power reacts crazily with Wally's Speed Force connection and the universe implodes on itself.

TL;DR: Too much to really consider to make a decision but the safe bet is Wally fails.

Swamp Thing and Captain Atom should get the job done. I know others stated it, I'm just late to the party.

Deadman solos.

I thought hero X vs world/universe battles were banned.

Wally was capable of running at FTL speeds for days in the human race without exhaustion. Dreuced adressed the rest.

Wally dies horribly.

Parliament of Limbs could kill him. The Parliament of Decay could turn his dandruff into unrecoverable cancerous basketball sized tumors.

He'd also have to prioritize Vibe because if Vibe just threw out a planet wide vibrational burst Flash would be screwed.

@dredeuced: Let's go......

1: OP Said no Spectre(well, no Jim Corrigan but that's synonymous).

Jim Corrigan is bonded with The Spectre,they're not the same person.

2: This one could be a problem, I guess, but I'm not sure if he's immune to BFR or not, his capabilities are a bit erratic. He certainly can't die, traditionally, so BFR is the main option and this is one of the dozens of characters that would make Wally unable to win round 2.

BFR doesn't matter to someone capable cross dimensions at will and also his capabilities aren't erratic in New 52.

3: Already dead, why does he have to be killed? Deadman meets the stipulation from the outset of the fight.

Deadman ''lives'' on Earth and is a heroe,dead or not still count..unless specified by OP.

4: Same thing as 2, really. Wally can't permanently kill him through physical means, but Swamp thing should probably be able to be BFR if Wally just grabs Holland's main body and tosses it to another dimension as soon as he realizes he can regenerate from nothing.

The Seeder already do it with Swamp Thing BFRed to the Moon,but he was able to transfer his consciousness back to the planet and also he can make countless body since Earth's still filled with plant life,until he found the body where consciousness resides so it will take a long time.

5: What has New 52 Doomsday done that makes you think Wally couldn't put him down? Wally already doesn't win round 2 but I don't even think New 52 Doomsday hinders him there, either.

Wally can BFR anywhere in time and space, but still be affected by Doomsday's virus or Doomsday's effect....he's not able to resist it.

6: What the heck has nightmare nurse done? This doesn't seem like an obstacle at all.

Nightmare Nurse couldn't be a theat,but Asa is...you know the spirit that possess Alice Winters. She's a spirit with magic abilities and could possess Wally or BFR to The Between.

7: This is similar to Swamp Thing.

No is not. She's the Avatar of the Rot...she could kill him or infect him as Anton Arcane did or call an army of rotlings to keep him busy.

8: Glider's powers are intangibility, flight, invisibility and weird scarf things. Wally has shown himself very capable of forcing someone tangible (and she DOES have a tangible form, it's how her powers interact with things) and she's visible to people at superspeed ala Barry witnessing her assassination attempt on Elias.

Do you know Glider's body lies on a bed inside a hospital? She's basically a spirit and IRC barry never touched her in New 52.

9: Frankly, this is similar to Doomsday. First Born's powerful but I don't see why he's much more than a speed bump to Wally. Even if the godly immortality thing is there he's imminently BFRable.

BFR is the only way to win. Unless there isn't blood around,because he's now capable to travel through blood.

10: Like most Kryptonians, not really a threat. Also, I mean, clearly beaten by BFR.

It seems you doesn't have knowledge about him. Dr. Xa-du was a prisoner of the Phantom Zone that have builded a ecto-suit that would render able to walk outside his prison,into the living world. Xa-Du possess the same powers of a kryptonian,plus inatngibility and teleportation coulding even teleport through dimensions as mentioned by Batman and Harrow in Action Comics Annual 3.

11: Ditto to Nightmare Nurse. I've read JLDark and I don't see why these pose an encumbrance to Wally in either round.

Enchantress is another spirit...a spirit of a witch. Without his host he is extremely dangerous and unstoppable, many failed to defeat her,....only Cosntantine defeated uniting to their original host (June Moon) nad then BFR to somewhere (after bond her with June Moon).

12: Brother Eye isn't alive so not really something Wally has to kill.

Agains OP doesn't specified that. Brother Eye inhabitant of Earth

I doesn't really matter. FTL speed is not everything and Wally is not undefeatable.

@dredeuced: No BFR screws Wally but

2. He's capable of dimensional travel and I half believe he can't be beaten by physical force.

3. It's not that Wally needs to defeat him just that he may be able to get the drop on Wally.

4,7. Avatars are capable of dimensional travel, Abigail even made a pocket dimension to imprison Arcane.

5. Doomsday has done nothing of note

Can't speak for the rest

Deadman never lost that ability.

5. Doomsday has done nothing of note

Explain how Wally will survive to Doomsday's infection? Doomsday doesn't need to fight Wally....people seems to forgot he's more than a brute now.

@matchesmalone21:

I doesn't really matter. FTL speed is not everything and Wally is not undefeatable.

FTL speed matters a pretty big deal considering no one can really compete with it.

Explain how Wally will survive to Doomsday's infection? Doomsday doesn't need to fight Wally....people seems to forgot he's more than a brute now.

New 52 Superman survived the death spores on raw durability, Wally is more durable than New 52 Clark and can just vibrate through the spores.

@matchesmalone21:

1: You are twisting the words. If Jim Corrigan is not allowed and he is the Spectre then we're not using the Spectre. He specifically mentioned reality warpers right after saying Corrigan's name and obviously Corrigan doesn't have any powers if he isn't the host of the spectre.

2: Sure it does. Wally can literally BFR him to the end of time if necessary, where even death ceases to exist as a concept. That's a bit above Judas' shown capability and you know it.

3: The goal is for Wally to kill everyone. If someone has already been killed, like Brand, then Wally doesn't really have to deal with him. He's already dead.

4: Wally does not BFR someone to the moon -- which is still the same universe and, cosmologically speaking, very close to Earth. Wally can BFR Swamp Thing to other universes entirely or to the end of time.

5: Okay, so? The Doomsday virus wouldn't stop him in the first place. Not that there would be enough time for the virus to get in his system. He's literally moving at untold numbers of times the speed of light and he's covered in an aura that protects him. This is really stretching it.

6: Wouldn't possibly have a chance of catching Wally with anything. That's why she's not a threat.

7: Again, she would have her entire body blown up in a fraction of a second so small that it doesn't even exist in the real world. When her body reforms she could be BFR'd quite handily. She is not a threat.

8: Yes, you can't possibly educate me about freaking Flash villains. I know exactly how her powers work considering I'm the one who cited things that she's done. She can be forced material and beaten. Beyond that, Wally's goal is to kill everyone on the planet. He knows who Captain Cold and his sister, Glider, are and he could kill her in her hospital bed if you REALLY want to be obstinate about this.

9: I doubt he's capable of traveling through blood when he's stuck in entropy. First Born shouldn't qualify as even a speed bump.

10: Again, I know what I'm talking about. The powers you listed are not relevant. He's not constantly intangible 100% of the time, he can't escape being BFR'd through time or the speed force, and he couldn't even survive Wally actually outright trying to kill him. Even if he was automatically intangible Wally could force him tangible. Intangibility is one of the worst possible powers you can cite for being a way to stop Wally from harming you. He can literally throw something at a vibrational rate to impale someone who is intangible (Technically Walter West did this but Wally is just as capable, he just has morals).

11: Spirits aren't alive but Enchantress has a body. You can't just cite all the people who are dead in DC as people Wally has to kill. If they're already dead then killing them is not relevant. The thread doesn't say "defeat everyone in DC as if it were a normal fight." The word used is slaughter -- to kill or butcher. If the OP clarifies that he just has to beat everyone who exists on Earth, alive or dead, then I agree that to some extent Wally couldn't deal with all the already dead spirits. THOUGH I will say that Barry Allen has used his super speed and vibrations to trap a malevolent spirit that even Deadman was having trouble with, so there is a basis for the speed force's vibrational powers affecting the dead.

12: Brother Eye is a computer virus. Wally doesn't have to destroy every computer on Earth, too. You can't slaughter a piece of software.

Like I said, I do not think Wally succeeds but I dislike your examples as to why.

You're really biased mate. There is plenty of people he couldn't kill anyway nad still doesn't have a wnser for that,doesn't matter how you try to glorify him.

I used to respect you but after that thoughtless comment I'II just simply ignore certain comments of yours.

@dredeuced: @highaccuser: Make me a favour and never tag me again in another Flash thread...i hate biased comments nad people who thinks he's undefeatable. Thanks and never tag me again in a flash thread.

2: Wally can BFR through time, this isn't relevant.

3: Seems unlikely, how would he even track Wally down if Wally's moving at max speed the entire time? How would he even be aware who is doing it?

4,7: Again, BFR to the end of time or into the speed force and they only have to be gone for an hour at that.

5: The argument made seems to be "he gets infected with the Virus" but that seems unlikely given that Wally's vibrated through world killing pathogens before and the only reason he didn't keep going was he didn't want to spread the disease to others -- obviously not an issue in this scenario.

I don't think he's undefeatable. You just gave really bad answers. Like I said, if Wally had to beat all these spirits then he can't really do anything to them. Get the OP to clarify whether he has to kill everyone or beat everyone, I assumed it was killing based on the word used. I also assumed BFR was a method of victory because he clarified that in round 2 that BFR wouldn't be allowed.

I believe that I ask to not tage me in Flash Vs someone thread anymore. Thanks.

@matchesmalone21:

You're really biased mate. There is plenty of people he couldn't kill anyway nad still doesn't have a wnser for that,doesn't matter how you try to glorify him.

Except dredeuced countered all of the people he "couldn't hurt". We're not really glorifying him considering he's done all the thing we've listed.

I used to respect you but after that thoughtless comment I'II just simply ignore certain comments of yours.

Wally tanked 15 blows from Amazo followed by an Nth metal mace to the stomach, a blast from the anti-monitor in a timeline where he gained supremacy and ran through a black hole while tanking it's gravity. Wally's best durability feats are on par with Pre-new 52 Superman, and we all know New 52 Clark isn't much compared to him durability wise.

Anyway, I'm beginning to doubt he can take round 1, he definently can't take round 2.

Please explain how our comments are wrong exactly.

If you don't want me to tag you again then don't, in a post tagging me, call me biased and lie about my views. I'll leave you alone after this but you can't just toss out a snide remark and THEN get asked to be left alone.

@dredeuced: The rules say no BFR

2. That won't be Wally's go to move, if he encountered the stranger he would treat him like another human and try and knock his block off and the Stranger would do some out of body soul attack. I only read the first few issues of his series but I would say it's a safe bet he takes this one.

3. Magic, luck, if Wally kills John he can take Johns trinket and use it to beat Flash after a dead John tells him how.

4, 7. They can exist in multiple bodies and even an extremely weakened parliament of rot was capable of time travel.

2: Wally has encountered Phantom Stranger several times before, albeit his own universe's version of the enigma. While you're right that the BFR wouldn't be his go to move I don't think Judas is gonna be able to perceive Wally to attack him unless he has some supernatural way to know where someone is, even if they're from another universe, and attack their soul even then. If that's the case then I'll concede this one.

3: Yeah but he has to catch Wally to even use the trinket. I suppose if the series of events could play out like this: Wally kills Constantine, Constantine somehow figures out he was killed by a Speed Force user (Not sure how he could after he's already dead), realizes that Wally is trying to kill every person on Earth somehow instead of just him (I mean lots of people want to kill John), Constantine goes to the other spirit guy who he knows can interact with living people in Brand, convinces him to possess a body and find the trinket so as to eventually get targetted by Wally and hope the trinket works when Wally goes to kill the person Brand is possessing, Wally is rendered helpless by this and, presumably, Brand and John sussed up some reinforcements to disable him afterwards.

I can see this happening but it seems like a real long shot. Figuring out who's killing everyone and what powers they're using seems like a stretch -- presumably Barry Allen would be dead in this scenario, for instance, and he's like one of the, what, 3 speed force users still around in the New 52? (Grodd kind of, Barry, Daniel West). If you can think of a cleaner way for this to work out then lay it on me. I don't think Wally succeeds in the first place but all the possible scenarios that defeat him are a lot more interesting to talk about.

4,7: Yeah but where Wally time traveled Death itself was unmade, I don't think Rot stacks up and Wally can suss out time travelers. Maybe this leads to him ineffectually trying to kill them, then ineffectually BFRing them through a dimension, then ineffectually BFRing them through time and it wastes the 1 hour he has. Wally's certainly capable of getting rid of them. I don't think the multiple bodies thing is an issue, either as it's just more regenerating bodies Wally has to dump off.

The rules say no BFR in round 2, it also says no speed steal. Round 2 is obviously a failure and I'm just discussing round 1 where BFR is implied to be allowed (otherwise the OP wouldn't have to disable it for round 2).

@dredeuced:

2. He was Clark Kenting in the first few issues but he may have ditched that.

On of the Strangers classic abilities has always been time stop.

and he was capable of scanning the multiverse for his family.

3. For this one it requires the prep aspect of being able to see the future, Xanadu reads the future and something like this would stand out so they could ready themselves before he starts.

The other aspect is Wally is zipping about and if you include the item Batman swiped that negatively affects speed force users there are 2 things he will inevitably encounter as he searches every nook and cranny looking for people

4,7. This is more the Rot and the Red than Swamp Thing, the Rot could just take control of him through any decayed matter on his body and I think the Red is capable of taking control of everything else.

Bloodlusted Flash (Wally West) speed-blitzes time, space and really all together at the same time! xD (i'm joking, lol)

But Wally still wins here.

@dextersinister:

2: I've always been skeptical of time stopping. A lot of times it's just slowed down as lots of super speed characters have been in situations akin to time being stopped. But I'll assume you're right and move to the next part -- he was scanning for people he is very close to and who he knows. He knows practically nothing of Wally because Wally doesn't even exist in their multiverse anymore (atleast this version). Would he even know who he needs to be scanning for? Can it be as vague as "Who just killed most of the Earth's population in the last couple minutes?" and he gets a magical scanning vision of what Wally is doing, despite Wally's speed? This is always how it tends to go with magic interacting with stuff, I guess. It's a lot of guessing as to how it'd work when you apply it to things outside of its normal uses.

3: Would seeing the future really affect someone who gets dropped in from, basically, outside of DC's continuity? I mean it's not like Xanadu has never been surprised before, it happened right before Forever Evil and that entire event was a bunch of people invading from a sister universe. I'm not sure how the item Batman has even responds to Speed Force users (I mean Johnny Quick was beaten by Cold) or how it has to be effectively implemented. It's also in a hidden box. Vibe would be a better choice since he's downright shown to screw with speed force powers upon contact, though things tend to settle down if Flash just moves away from him.

4/7: Are we counting the entities of Rot and Red and Green as things Wally has to get rid of? That's kind of like saying Wally has to kill the entire planet Earth to succeed. I imagine the Avatars are the only ones he'd have to deal with. Beyond that would the Rot or Red even know who's attacking the Earth or what's going on to use their powers on him? Can they keep up with whatever decaying matter is in his body if they don't know where he's at? Would the rot even be adverse to Wally killing everyone on Earth (I suppose The Red would)? I suppose if I really wanted to cheese this and talk about Wally being completely out of character then Wally can just...become pure speed force energy like he did in the mid 90s. It's just really out of character for him since he likes being human.

Wally loses

@dredeuced:

2. Do we not assume that characters exist in a shared universe for the sake of battle? even then I'm 90% certain that Phantom Stranger has memories from pre-crisis as he is one of the few to make mention of what Pandora has done.

3. Same again with the shared universe concept. The idea of giving someone some immunity from future sight because they don't exist in there comics is an advantage they wouldn't have.

It's not so much Batman reacting it's more the idea that Flash will eventually enter a zone of something that depowers or harms him while carrying out his task.

4,7. I'm just going by the fact that it had no trouble with Barry, granted he's not on Wally's level it most likely will work the same, there's rot in his body to work with.

That's always been why Swamp Thing has been such a tough character to match others with, he can just shed his body and regrow it elsewhere on Earth. Solomon Grundy is Earth 2's inexperienced avatar of rot and he would have sucked the life out of the planet within minutes if the green avatar hadn't opposed him.

Under Arcane the rot would let Wally work away but Abigail along with the rest of the parliament of Rot are more concerned with balance.

@matchesmalone21: welcome to the club. I learned to stay away from a Flash thread a long time ago :)

@dextersinister: I assume he was just dropped on the main Earth in the New 52 and sent to go kill everyone. I don't see why people would suddenly gain knowledge of him even in the merged universe scenario. As far as the future sight goes, like I said, it failed against the Crime Syndicate invading Earth and they planned it for weeks before actually showing up. The idea here seems to be that Wally just shows up out of the blue one day and goes on a killing spree.

If Wally does have to actually fight the Red and Black then I don't see how he could beat them since they're just more transient spirit like entities. Like I said, I imagine if he became pure energy like he has before then they couldn't control him but he has no way of getting rid of them if they count as part of the group that he has to take down to fulfill the circumstances of the battle.

Flash

Tottaly agreed!!

Sir did you just make a flash versus thread???

Can someone post the other ones for me? I lost them. On a side note, since flash cant bfr he wont beat some of the intangibles or those who are just immune to physical damage. flash loses.