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#51 Posted by pooty (11008 posts) - - Show Bio

@pooty: well people keep saying he cant do it.

those people are assuming. . a god is just a person with powers. humans have surpassed gods in power. vulcan has affected people, magic, mutates, machines and cosmic powers with his powers. The brain uses tiny amounts of energy. That is nothing for Vulcan to control or manipulate or shut down. Vulcan had energy manipulation powers BEFORE he fused with Darwin. So losing Darwin would not affect his energy manipulation. Vulcan has not been retconned so his powers have not been altered.

#52 Edited by czarny_samael666 (17130 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave said:

@czarny_samael666: Thor's Hammer produces Kinetic Energy as it moves, Vulcan just has to redirect it Thor. As shown by Hulk, Thor doesn't react well to having his hammer hit him in the face.

1.To wield Mjolnir (and this would be wielding it) Vulcan would have to be worthy.

2.In this way You can say that Vulcan can manipulate matter because in energy can change into matter and opposite. It doesn't work in this way. Not too mention that it is similar to TK and it also would have to be proved by power level, which means that until Vulcan will control similar object (any object actually, since he never done anything like that) that would be flying with similar speed.

3.Hulk used sucker punch agaisnt Thor. Normally Hulk is too much below Thor to be able to KO him. He has never done it beside two sucker punches.

#53 Posted by dondave (35901 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666:

1. He wouldn't need to touch it just send it in another direction

2. If Sucker Punched Superman would he get knocked out

#54 Posted by NorrinBoltagonPrime21 (5713 posts) - - Show Bio

@inconvenient_truth: You shouldnt feel sorry cause this is actually a close fight that but people wont admit it from lack of knowledge on vulcan and a bit of overhype of thor.

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#55 Posted by Inconvenient_Truth (2362 posts) - - Show Bio
#56 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17130 posts) - - Show Bio

@norrinboltagonprime21: youre probably right

He isn't right at all. I've read almost all comics with Vulcan.

Deadly Genesis, War of Kings and all tie-ins, Kingbreaker, Emperor Vulcan...

He isn't in this league of physical strength and durability. He has NO feats that would allow him to survive Thor's attacks. That is why Gladiator one-shotted him.

Vulcan didn't manipulate any energy in anyone brain since he was depowered. At least no one posted anythin against that.

@pooty said:

@inconvenient_truth said:

@pooty: well people keep saying he cant do it.

those people are assuming. . a god is just a person with powers. humans have surpassed gods in power. vulcan has affected people, magic, mutates, machines and cosmic powers with his powers. The brain uses tiny amounts of energy. That is nothing for Vulcan to control or manipulate or shut down. Vulcan had energy manipulation powers BEFORE he fused with Darwin. So losing Darwin would not affect his energy manipulation. Vulcan has not been retconned so his powers have not been altered.

You can keep saying that, only if You have prove that he did it since x-M:DG.

And this still wouldn't prove Your point if he didn't do it against anyone in Thor's league of durability. You're not even proving Your point, You just locked Yourself in repeating the same sentence over and over again without any evidence to prove Your point.

@dondave said:

@czarny_samael666:

1. He wouldn't need to touch it just send it in another direction

2. If Sucker Punched Superman would he get knocked out

1.In other words: Show me Vulcan doing it. That just for start.

2.Superman was punched in this way by Cap Marvel. Not too mention that I don't belive that Superman is more durable than Thor. In the same level? Very possible, but not entierly sure, since Thor = BRB and BRB survived worse than Superman in the past.

#57 Edited by dondave (35901 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666: 1. What exactly do you want me to show you, Vulcan redirecting energy or or Thor's hammer because they haven't met?

2. Superman was sucker punched but knocked out, then stood up and got knocked out. What does Superman's durability have to do with any thing here?

#58 Edited by czarny_samael666 (17130 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave said:

@czarny_samael666: 1. What exactly do you want me to show you, Vulcan redirecting energy or or Thor's hammer because they haven't met?

2. Superman was sucker punched but knocked out, then stood up and got knocked out. What does Superman's durability have to do with any thing here?

1.Vulcan using his energy manipulation as a TK. And he to belive that he can control Mjolnir, You also have to prove that Vulcan can control something similar to Mjolnir. At least when it comes to power of damage this thing could made in an impact. So, object that possibly could destroy a large area.

2.Lol, IDK, You mentioned him...

#59 Edited by pooty (11008 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666: Your point if he didn't do it against anyone in Thor's league of durability

Explain what does physical durability have to do with electrical synapses in his brain? Are Thor's electrical currents in his brain more powerful then Warlocks magic or Black Bolts blast? Has Vulcan been retconned so that he no longer controls all forms of energy?

#60 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17130 posts) - - Show Bio

@pooty said:

@czarny_samael666: Your point if he didn't do it against anyone in Thor's league of durability

Explain what does physical durability have to do with electrical synapses in his brain? Are Thor's electrical currents in his brain more powerful then Warlocks magic or Black Bolts blast? Has Vulcan been retconned so that he no longer controls all forms of energy?

Vulcan with Darwin was simply more powerfull. It is like saying that Thor can beat Thor without OF, since Thor can always boost Mjolnir with other energies and he just used these energies and his hammer to defeat Bor.

It doesn't matter what they've done when they were boosted.

IDK if Vulcan really can do it on his own power, but since he wasn't, we can't assume that he can. You don't know if Darwin's powers enable him to do it or not, so only way to prove he still can do it is to post a scan in which he is actually doing under his own power.

Now, how many heroes can manipulate electricity from brains of other heroes? Not too many.

How many can absorb magical energies - a lot more. Thor for example can do it.

And Vulcan didnt't absorb BB's attacks. They were close in energy control.

And durability matters all the time. How do You know that Vulcan can do it on people whos minds are harder to damage? That are pretty much immune to heat or frezzeing attacks? Thor's brain is nothing like Cyke's, since Cyke can't survive in heart of star, in space, or being frozen by Malekith. Thor was attacked by so many things that normal brain would get crushed, so we can't use it as an argument. By the same logic, we could say that Galactus and Thanos can be putted down in this way.

#61 Posted by Inconvenient_Truth (2362 posts) - - Show Bio

To me, durability doesnt matter in this fight because i imagine the fight starts and vulcan is already trying to take away thors power since he is an "omega level" mutant, and thats what he does and that would render durability or strength irrelevant but apparently people are saying that the super powerful mutant that absorbs energy cant absorb energy in this fight.

#62 Edited by pooty (11008 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666: I'm not using the feats when he had Darwin. Look at the scans when he battled the Imperial Guard. They were stomping him. Still, he was able to manipulate the energy within their bodies. Not one person, but two alien beings at the same time. and one of them was a brick with high durable. Vulcan manipulated ALL of their energy to the point that they were near dead. If Vulcan can do that while battered and can do it to two people at once, then manipulating the tiny amount of energy used in Thor's brain is nothing. Look at the scans on the previous page. Vulcan is manipulating their personal energy. Thor has personal energy and it can be manipulated. Also the energy needed to power a Sentinel is more then the energy Thor has in his brain. And Vulcan manipulated that also. So without Darwin he has proven he can manipulate a persons personal energy whether cosmic or magical or machine. Multiple people at once.

How do You know that Vulcan can do it on people whos minds are harder to damage? That are pretty much immune to heat or frezzeing attacks?

He is not attacking their mind. It is the electrical current in their brains.Your brain receives signals from your body. If those signals are interrupted or stopped then you pass out. that has nothing to do with durability. that is science. Galactus is not a humanoid so i don't know how his mind works. But Thor is a humanoid. and Vulcan proved he can use his powers against alien bricks. Thor would be no different.

To me, durability doesnt matter in this fight because i imagine the fight starts and vulcan is already trying to take away thors power since he is an "omega level" mutant, and thats what he does and that would render durability or strength irrelevant but apparently people are saying that the super powerful mutant that absorbs energy cant absorb energy in this fight.

Exactly. Thor's durability couldn't even stop Grey Gargoyle from turning him to stone. No way he can stop an omega level mutant from affecting the energy in his body.

#63 Posted by Inconvenient_Truth (2362 posts) - - Show Bio

MUST be a coincidence, buuuut In this thread, the omega level mutant that absorbs energy cant absorb thors energy according these comments and in my other thread mimic cant mimic thors power, for some reason/// hmmm

#64 Edited by NorrinBoltagonPrime21 (5713 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666: Im not saying vulcan will win, im just saying that this isnt a big of a stomp as you think. from what i remember, gladiator was only able to one-shot vulcan after vulcan fought the imperial guard. thats much different that how you are presenting it. You are also assuming vulcan is going to go straight into a h2h situation where thor is obviously going to dominate. vulcan is a energy manipulator and can use it in a variety of ways to attack thor. im just trying to say this isnt as big as a stomp as you think it is.

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#65 Edited by Inconvenient_Truth (2362 posts) - - Show Bio

said:

@czarny_samael666: Im not saying vulcan will win, im just saying that this isnt a big of a stomp as you think. from what i remember, gladiator was only able to one-shot vulcan after vulcan fought the imperial guard. thats much different that how you are presenting it. You are also assuming vulcan is going to go straight into a h2h situation where thor is obviously going to dominate. vulcan is a energy manipulator and can use it in a variety of ways to attack thor. im just trying to say this isnt as big as a stomp as you think it is.

THIS

#66 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17130 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666: Im not saying vulcan will win, im just saying that this isnt a big of a stomp as you think. from what i remember, gladiator was only able to one-shot vulcan after vulcan fought the imperial guard. thats much different that how you are presenting it. You are also assuming vulcan is going to go straight into a h2h situation where thor is obviously going to dominate. vulcan is a energy manipulator and can use it in a variety of ways to attack thor. im just trying to say this isnt as big as a stomp as you think it is.

This is a stomp. Thor will one shot him, because Vulcan NEVER took such a big punishment on his face.

It doesn't matter what Vulcan will choose to do - Thor sends his hammer and Vulcan is KOd.

Vulcan can't dominante Thor in energy manipulation, because Thor has BETTER feats in this area.

This is a horrible stomp, because one character can take another in one move and has better feats in every possible area than the second one.

MUST be a coincidence, buuuut In this thread, the omega level mutant that absorbs energy cant absorb thors energy according these comments and in my other thread mimic cant mimic thors power, for some reason/// hmmm

He can't, becasue there IS NOTHING to absorb.

And Thor has better feats in this area, anyway...

Show me Vulcan doing something like this:

Redirecting Glory's power against himself:

Drainning Nega Bomb and recharging a star with its power:

@pooty said:

@czarny_samael666: I'm not using the feats when he had Darwin. Look at the scans when he battled the Imperial Guard. They were stomping him. Still, he was able to manipulate the energy within their bodies. Not one person, but two alien beings at the same time. and one of them was a brick with high durable. Vulcan manipulated ALL of their energy to the point that they were near dead. If Vulcan can do that while battered and can do it to two people at once, then manipulating the tiny amount of energy used in Thor's brain is nothing. Look at the scans on the previous page. Vulcan is manipulating their personal energy. Thor has personal energy and it can be manipulated. Also the energy needed to power a Sentinel is more then the energy Thor has in his brain. And Vulcan manipulated that also. So without Darwin he has proven he can manipulate a persons personal energy whether cosmic or magical or machine. Multiple people at once.

1.Doesn't matter, Thor has no energy for Vulcan to manipulate. They had.

2.Neutron is nowhere near Thor, so it is irrelevant. Besides, Neutron isn't just a brick.

3.Then show me Vulcan manipulating energy of someone's brain after he lost Darwin.

4.No, he isn't. Not without Darwin.

5.You're so sure about Your claims and You can't prove any of them. Funny since Vulcan already was taken out in this way:

Exactly. Thor's durability couldn't even stop Grey Gargoyle from turning him to stone. No way he can stop an omega level mutant from affecting the energy in his body.

Which only proves how powerfull is GG. Vulcan didn't win with someone like Thor.

Vulcan was stomped by Gladiator and couldn't do ANYTHING to him. Yet, somehow, You try to convince me that he will be able to manipulate THOR's brain.

#67 Posted by dondave (35901 posts) - - Show Bio
#68 Edited by Killemall (18457 posts) - - Show Bio

3.Then show me Vulcan manipulating energy of someone's brain after he lost Darwin.

Here you go, not exactly sure on the issue number because i got the issue in a trade paper back, it was called Uncanny X-men Rise and Fall of Shair Empire, and its much later than X-men Deadly Genesis

Although durability is going to be a problem.

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#69 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17130 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666 said:

3.Then show me Vulcan manipulating energy of someone's brain after he lost Darwin.

Here you go, not exactly sure on the issue number because i got the issue in a trade paper back, it was called Uncanny X-men Rise and Fall of Shair Empire, and its much later than X-men Deadly Genesis

Although durability is going to be a problem.

OK, I could ask for scans like this over and over again and my opponents here wouldn't listen.

Yet, I hope You don't think that it changes anything. Neither Vulcan could do it from distance, use in battle against Gladiator (or others) nor Thor is anything like D'Ken.

#70 Posted by Killemall (18457 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666: I dont think its a outright give, Thor durability should affect him. The point was there really isnt anything to suggest his ability to manipulate someone's brain , that particular has been taken away. Furthermore, Darwin ability was only meant to make him unable to be killed rather than improve his power set, i mean thats exactly what Darwin's power is, evolve to defend himself.

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#71 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17130 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666: I dont think its a outright give, Thor durability should affect him. The point was there really isnt anything to suggest his ability to manipulate someone's brain , that particular has been taken away. Furthermore, Darwin ability was only meant to make him unable to be killed rather than improve his power set, i mean thats exactly what Darwin's power is, evolve to defend himself.

Vulcan affected D'Ken's brain in way he can't copy against Thor, so nothing changes when it comes to pick a winner here.

And it still doesn't prove that he can affect people with greater durability. He couldn't affect Gladiator at all.

#72 Posted by Killemall (18457 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666: Pretty sure you misunderstood what i said, i actually admit the scans shouldnt change the winner, and i have said twice (pretty sure you are mis-reading it somehow, else apologies) that Thor's durability will be a problem for Vulcan's manipulation.

What i am however saying is, him manipulating Cyclops and Rachel, that feat is still valid as separating him from Darwin.

I think Thor wins, and wins everytime.

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#73 Edited by czarny_samael666 (17130 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666: Pretty sure you misunderstood what i said, i actually admit the scans shouldnt change the winner, and i have said twice (pretty sure you are mis-reading it somehow, else apologies) that Thor's durability will be a problem for Vulcan's manipulation.

What i am however saying is, him manipulating Cyclops and Rachel, that feat is still valid as separating him from Darwin.

I think Thor wins, and wins everytime.

My bad, I really misunderstood You.

Other thing is Vulcan's ability to control Jean and Cyke's brains. I doubt that we're using any feat that was made when some character was boosted.

Thor fought with Bor. We know that he survived his blows because of OF. We also know that Thor can charge Mjolnir with great amounts of energy without OF, but does that mean that we can use Thor killing Bor as a feat to his own power? No, we would need other feats to prove ability to charge Mjolnir (ability to control brain) and its level (controlling brain to hurt his enemies).

#74 Edited by LordVulcan (209 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor wins but Vulcan took a scream from Blackbolt to the face. Vulcan tanked that S**T. So I don't think Thor is about to one shot Vulcan. He wins but i think it takes him at least two good hits on Vulcan.

#75 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17130 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor wins but Vulcan took a scream from Blackbolt to the face. Vulcan tanked that S**T. So I don't think Thor is about to one shot Vulcan. He wins but i think it takes him at least two good hits on Vulcan.

Not the same kind of durability and Vulcan's muscles and skin was completly burned.

#76 Posted by pooty (11008 posts) - - Show Bio

@killemall: Thor's durability will be a problem for Vulcan's manipulation.

Greetings my friend! Why would Thor's durability help him resist energy manipulation? What is the connection between physical durability and energy durability? If Vulcan has been shown to manipulate vast mechanical energy, cosmic energy and magic(Thor has to fall within one of those categories) why couldn't he affect the synapses in Thor's brain or nervous system? Also why couldn't he dodge Thor's beams or redirect them?

#77 Edited by czarny_samael666 (17130 posts) - - Show Bio

@pooty said:

@killemall: Thor's durability will be a problem for Vulcan's manipulation.

Greetings my friend! Why would Thor's durability help him resist energy manipulation? What is the connection between physical durability and energy durability? If Vulcan has been shown to manipulate vast mechanical energy, cosmic energy and magic(Thor has to fall within one of those categories) why couldn't he affect the synapses in Thor's brain or nervous system? Also why couldn't he dodge Thor's beams or redirect them?

Thor has energy durabiltiy on level above Vulcan's.

I don't even needed Vulcan vs. Gladiator for that, but I don't understand how can You still say that Thor will be affected after clear scan saying that Vulcan can't affect Gladiator?

And Thor will end him by throwing Mjolnir in his face, not energy beam. Thor always starts battle in this way.

#78 Edited by Killemall (18457 posts) - - Show Bio

@pooty: @czarny_samael666: We there are never going to be in an agreement in this its better to leave it at it is man :)

Agree to disagree folks, agree to disagree.

(pretty sure we have to resort to the same thing on Thanos vs Zeus thread.. we are so not going to see eye to eye there either)

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#79 Posted by pooty (11008 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666: Thor can't "will" himself to be untouchable like Gladiator did. Also that scan is after Vulcan had been attacked by the entire IG. It's not like he is at full power. In the earlier scans he was able to casually blast Gladiator back a couple times. then after he is weakened he can't touch Gladiator for some odd reason. and i'm not talking about Vulcan blasting Thor with energy. i'm talking about him taking Taking Thor's energy or shutting down the energy in his brain or nervous system. all living beings contain energy of some kind.

#80 Posted by pooty (11008 posts) - - Show Bio

@pooty: @czarny_samael666: We there are never going to be in an agreement in this its better to leave it at it is man :)

Agree to disagree folks, agree to disagree.

(pretty sure we have to resort to the same thing on Thanos vs Zeus thread.. we are so not going to see eye to eye there either)

agreed.

#81 Posted by ghost_rider1 (3445 posts) - - Show Bio

Vulcan has a chance if he can avoid a direct hit from thor. Mjonir will be useless due to the energy control that vulcan possess. Thor combat speed is pathetic compared to gladiator so thpr will have a much harder time trying to get past vulcan energy force fields. If vulcan can shut down thor's brain. Then this fight could be over before it really gets started

#82 Posted by ForeverEvil (4788 posts) - - Show Bio

tough one.

#83 Posted by HellionVulcan (3712 posts) - - Show Bio

If Iceman can effect Thor's insides why can't someone who controls pretty much everything around them , If Vulcan can shut Thor's brain down is his only chance as he can't brawl with Thor or allow him to his his hammer .

#84 Posted by New_World_Order (12895 posts) - - Show Bio

It most likely ends the same way between them as it did Gladiator and Vulcan.

#85 Edited by pooty (11008 posts) - - Show Bio

When Vulcan fought Gladiator, Vulcan had literally just got stomped on by the Imperial Guard. Thor won't have the Imperial Guard to wear down Vulcan. Also that is a HUGE PIS moment. All of a sudden Gladiator can "Will himself not to be touched". Where did that power come from? And Vulcan tried to blast him with a tiny beam. This fight is in character so Vulcan can last with Thor the same way Black Bolt lasted with Thor. When Vulcan has taken enough punishment, he shuts off his power like he did Adam Warlock

#86 Posted by ghost_rider1 (3445 posts) - - Show Bio

@pooty:

thats what i was thinking as well