I feel the need to address the terrifying amount of Xenomorphs you'll be facing. Your thugs will be desecrated early on in the time. The sheer speed and strength each bug has is 10x better than what your thugs have.
Strength
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Tackling a Predator hard enough to break stoneStrong enough to rip through steel doors
Durability
“It takes heavy armour-piercing military-grade weaponry to kill one and even then its not easy. We have the reports from Colonial Marines’ encounters with them. A Chinese farmer with a pitchfork, an Australian bird hunter with a shotgun, they’ll be wasting their time trying to stop a full-grown alien with either of those weapons.”-Aliens: Earth Hive pg. 248-249
“The sounds of combat were drawing much closer as they finished. He could here the occasional ricochet ping off the alien armour, and whoever had taken over from the dead general would probably be hauling ass real soon.”-Aliens: Earth Hive pg 274
Speed
I don't have the scans for it. But in Aliens vs Predator Annual #1 a xenomorph dodges a close range shoulder cannon. And I must pathetically use abc logic. Predators can easily dodge bullets, Xenomporhs blitz Predators all the time, it's safe to assume they have such speeds.
From the get go, your team is going to be swarmed by 30 primal, acid blooded, bullet resistance, steel level strength monsters. And that's just my cannon fodder!
Marines and Predators, armed with an APC couldn't hold off a swarm. Just to give you an idea.
Thugs
Deadshot
Deathstroke
Toph
Gambit
Your thugs will prove usless when the Xenomorphs swarm them. Deadshot's bullets should do damage after awhile, but when they get up close, Flyodd has no h2h feats to put him on par with a bug.
Bullseye
Gambit and Toph will be he targets. Why? Well he did already beat Gambit before. He even states that he is better than him.
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Not much I can say about it..
As for Toph, I know she'll probably go use her stone form and have basically no shots for Bullseye....Except her eyes. I know she leaves a gap for her eyes that are wide open.
When you can pull off an eye shot while the target is riding a horse, FROM TWO MILES AWAY. I think it's safe to say that Bullseye can throw a knife in her eye. As far as I can tell, Avatar characters only have arrow level reaction time.
Thugs
Deadshot
Deathstroke
Toph
Gambit
Leaving only Deathstroke to fight DD, SE, and Elektra....I'll post their feats later.
Ok, so right from the git-go Toph is going to raise a large square platform about the size of a building. She is totally capable of doing this, as she has the earth bending prowess to stop a large tower from sinking, in "The Library." Alas, I cannot get a video for this, but it is something that happened.
Hope you will understand- after all, you seem to know of Toph's stone armor- which, BTW, I will not be using.
So, if you will be so kind to be ok with this happening, Toph will raise a platform above the ground, leaving all the Arkham thugs on the ground to defend. From up above, my team will have the range bonus, and Toph and Gambit will become the best of friends- Toph brings up a rock, Gambit makes it into an explosive boulder, and sends it launching toward anyone on your team that looks unsuspecting.
Deathstroke and Deadshot play defense here, as I am slightly aware of the Xenomorph's ability to climb- I know they will tear through the Arkham mates like paper.
Some scans, just to show you-
Deadshot
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Tanks his own bullets. You should know about his aim- I noticed your name in the N52 Respect Thread for him.
Deathstroke
Slade also has great aim, like Bullseye- not saying he's better, just that he can hit the center of a dartboard too.
Hits a fly with a paperclip.
I'll do some Gambit scans later.
Point is, it will be hard for your team to hit my team when my team is 10-20 feet in the air on a rock, sending more projectiles at you then you to it- and the Arkham thugs stand as a distraction for my masters at sniping- DS and DS.
So Slade is alone, if my plan actually pulls through. I don't feel like posting scans of DD, SE, and Elektra bullet dodging/deflecting, we both know they can casually do so. What matters right now is skill.
Daredevil
Vs. Winter Soldier
Daredevil holding back, easily held a bloodlust Winter Soldier at bay.
Vs. Iron Fist
Easily evades Iron Fists attacks.
Vs. Captain America
I believe DD can tank Slade's hits seeing how he has been hit by Cap's shield and fists.
Elektra
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On multiple occasions Elektra has been able to stalemate Wolverine. I believe this shows she has enough skill to hang with DS.
SO. My team is at the bottom of this stone building. With all of your goons at the bottom, they'll be taken out in less then a minute. As seen above, the Xenomorphs numbers alone will demolish them. With the bugs bulldozing through your fodder, Bullseye can go tic for tac agaisnt Deadshot. I'm well aware of his capabilities, along with Slade's.
While both Deadshot and Deathstroke are great marksmen, both DD and Elektra have dodged shots from their Universes best marksmen.
With your thugs out of the picture the rest of my team can utilize the surrounding buildings to get onto the stone building. The Xenos can just climb their way up, assuming there is still a good amount of them left in the fight.
Bullseye vs Deadshot
This is going to be tricky. They're pretty much identical when it comes to projectiles. But one thing that will give Bullseye the edge is his h2h skill.
This is a guy who has taken on DD reagualy, defeated Elektra three times, even killing her in one of their encounters!
He shows great h2h and reaction feats in this fight. Also taking serious punishment, like falling out of a 3 story building and getting hit by a bus.
Daredevil vs Toph
Blind vs Blind! Now, if I'm correct, she sees by feeling vibrations in the ground? If so, Daredevil should stomp easily. His agility will help him cover great ground to land in front of Toph and take her out before she can react. I am 100% sure he has better h2h than Toph.
Dem rocks. I'm sure they're fast in their right, but DD easily dodges bullets...
Swats away a bullet. So with this being said, I believe DD can easily avoid a bunch of rocks being thrown at, possibly arrow speeds. Let's not forget about his ranged weapon.
Say Toph launches 5 boulders at him. DD can make them bounce off one another till it reaches Tophs face. Then follow up with some strikes. I think that takes care of Toph...
With your thugs out of the picture the rest of my team can utilize the surrounding buildings to get onto the stone building. The Xenos can just climb their way up, assuming there is still a good amount of them left in the fight.
Oh, yeah, this is in Nuketown, isn't it? Well, that can be an easy fix. Since I am primarily entrusting the strategy-ing to Slade- the greatest tactician ON my team- he can tell Toph to raise the stone square even higher if need be, which may be a bit difficult yet possible of her. However, in case she somehow can't, we are prepared.
Bullseye vs Deadshot
This is going to be tricky. They're pretty much identical when it comes to projectiles. But one thing that will give Bullseye the edge is his h2h skill.
This is a guy who has taken on DD reagualy, defeated Elektra three times, even killing her in one of their encounters!
He shows great h2h and reaction feats in this fight. Also taking serious punishment, like falling out of a 3 story building and getting hit by a bus.
Very nice- however, he isn't just facing Deadshot. He is facing in essence everyone on the stone square- can Bullseye take Deadshot and Gambit, or Deadshot with help from any other member of my team? I think not.
Daredevil vs Toph
Blind vs Blind! Now, if I'm correct, she sees by feeling vibrations in the ground? If so, Daredevil should stomp easily. His agility will help him cover great ground to land in front of Toph and take her out before she can react. I am 100% sure he has better h2h than Toph.
Dem rocks. I'm sure they're fast in their right, but DD easily dodges bullets...
Swats away a bullet. So with this being said, I believe DD can easily avoid a bunch of rocks being thrown at, possibly arrow speeds. Let's not forget about his ranged weapon.
Say Toph launches 5 boulders at him. DD can make them bounce off one another till it reaches Tophs face. Then follow up with some strikes. I think that takes care of Toph...
Super busy lately, I'll have more up tonight!
All impressive, however, keep in mind the rocks are charged by Gambit. So, the second they touch DD- or any area around him- BOOM! Daredevil goes up in flames!
Also, another point to bring up- in what way will DD and Elektra be willing to work with Bullseye, instead of trying to fight him right off the bat? And who's to say the Xenomorphs won't also attack your team? They certainly won't be warm and cuddly to DD, Elektra, and Bullseye either. And since when will DD let Xenomorphs eat people?
Very nice- however, he isn't just facing Deadshot. He is facing in essence everyone on the stone square- can Bullseye take Deadshot and Gambit, or Deadshot with help from any other member of my team? I think not.
And why is that?
Bullseye has no problem throwing things at different targets. Plus he has the reaction speed to handle bullets.
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Has no problem deflecting bullets or dodging optic blasts
Lester should be able to dance around their shots. Like I've said, Bullseye can go toe to toe with Deadshot. But the moment it goes h2h, it's over.
All impressive, however, keep in mind the rocks are charged by Gambit. So, the second they touch DD- or any area around him- BOOM! Daredevil goes up in flames!
That doesn't really say much. You haven't shown how fast she can throw them. Again, DD has deflected shots from Bullseye, dodged machine gun rounds from multiple targets, I believe he can dodge some stones.
You have also yet to show her reaction speed. Basically any one of my team members can one shot her from across the stone buildings, seeing how she doesn't have enhanced hearing, she only sees by vibrations in the ground. Snake Eyes could just pull off a headshot from across the stone building and bring both teams falling to the ground.
Also, another point to bring up- in what way will DD and Elektra be willing to work with Bullseye, instead of trying to fight him right off the bat? And who's to say the Xenomorphs won't also attack your team? They certainly won't be warm and cuddly to DD, Elektra, and Bullseye either. And since when will DD let Xenomorphs eat people?
Just don't. Lol. Bullseye has worked along side heroes before. In Secret Invasion(I think) Bullseye had a chance to use a bazooka on Spider man and DD, but he shot the skrull instead. DD works along side Elektra and Wolverine, both kill people.Also, he didn't mind deflecting that bullet into that guy's brain, now did he? He wouldn't cry if he saw Xenos slash up people.
Why would Toph work with badguys?
Why would Deadshot and Deathstroke work together
It's fair to assume our teams would work together.
I know that the Thugs and Toph will be taken out very early on. I have yet to actually see any reaction feat for her. I do recall the episode were she help of the tower. It took great focus and she couldn't even save the flying bison thing. Along with the fact she has no enhanced hearing, Bullseye or Elektra can throw a knife in her head. Sending the stone building down and then my team can advance and finish them off.
Very nice- however, he isn't just facing Deadshot. He is facing in essence everyone on the stone square- can Bullseye take Deadshot and Gambit, or Deadshot with help from any other member of my team? I think not.
And why is that?
Bullseye has no problem throwing things at different targets. Plus he has the reaction speed to handle bullets.
Impressive, however ineffective against Slade. His Nth Metal armor is bulletproof- and unless you can show me something where Bullseye throws a screw faster/harder than a bullet, he pretty much is going to die vs Deathstroke. Gambit also is amazing at reaction speed- he has deflected bullet like projectiles from his bo-staff.
Lester should be able to dance around their shots. Like I've said, Bullseye can go toe to toe with Deadshot. But the moment it goes h2h, it's over.
Far as I can tell, Deadshot is the only one who'll be shooting from that range. Slade can go for h2h- and there is no way Bullseye can beat Deathstroke h2h. He'll get wrecked.
That doesn't really say much. You haven't shown how fast she can throw them. Again, DD has deflected shots from Bullseye, dodged machine gun rounds from multiple targets, I believe he can dodge some stones.
I don't think you understand. These stones will explode. Boom. Explosion =/= Machine gun rounds. And to show how fast she can throw them-
Loading Video...
This video is a good showing of all of her skills.
You have also yet to show her reaction speed. Basically any one of my team members can one shot her from across the stone buildings, seeing how she doesn't have enhanced hearing, she only sees by vibrations in the ground. Snake Eyes could just pull off a headshot from across the stone building and bring both teams falling to the ground.
She has amazing reaction speed, as seen in the video above- a stone is thrown at her from behind and she whirls around to catch it in a split second. Also, if Snake Eyes' plan works, it won't bring down the whole stone building. It isn't like when she isn't focusing on it it fixes itself- it will stay if she goes down. Gambit still has 52 projectiles to work with.
Just don't. Lol. Bullseye has worked along side heroes before. In Secret Invasion(I think) Bullseye had a chance to use a bazooka on Spider man and DD, but he shot the skrull instead. DD works along side Elektra and Wolverine, both kill people.Also, he didn't mind deflecting that bullet into that guy's brain, now did he? He wouldn't cry if he saw Xenos slash up people.
That shouldn't count as an example. That would be like Batman having a chance to take down Joker and the Riddler or take down Darkseid. Not like he could take down Darkseid- but still. He was most likely prioritizing his threats. This also doesn't explain to me why the Xenos won't attack DD, Elektra, and Bullseye.
Why would Toph work with badguys?
Who says she knows they're bad guys? The only 2 people on my team that know each other are Floyd and Slade. Are they going to bully her, or maybe go rob a bank? No, DS is going to explain to them a good strategy.
Why would Deadshot and Deathstroke work together
They're both mercenaries. If there is a job that needs doing, they won't bother each other with measly rivalries.
It's fair to assume our teams would work together.
Considering you put DD and Elektra's worst enemy on the same team with them, and got 30 creatures that literally tear through anyone in their path, I doubt it.
I know that the Thugs and Toph will be taken out very early on. I have yet to actually see any reaction feat for her. I do recall the episode were she help of the tower. It took great focus and she couldn't even save the flying bison thing. Along with the fact she has no enhanced hearing, Bullseye or Elektra can throw a knife in her head. Sending the stone building down and then my team can advance and finish them off.
I gave a reaction feat in the video. There are several in the video, actually. And she can also make herself a stone tent. Something we also see in the video. There is no evidence to prove if Toph goes down the building goes down.
Impressive, however ineffective against Slade. His Nth Metal armor is bulletproof- and unless you can show me something where Bullseye throws a screw faster/harder than a bullet, he pretty much is going to die vs Deathstroke. Gambit also is amazing at reaction speed- he has deflected bullet like projectiles from his bo-staff.
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Sorry, all I have is the typical scans of him tagging Spiderman and Daken
Bullseye throws them pretty fast, managing to hit DD even though he has radar sense. I'm sure he'll tag Deathstroke, will it pierce through? Maybe. Maybe not.
Far as I can tell, Deadshot is the only one who'll be shooting from that range. Slade can go for h2h- and there is no way Bullseye can beat Deathstroke h2h. He'll get wrecked.
It's debatable. He has bested Daredevil, Elektra, Black Widow, Gambit, in h2h. So it's a pretty rad dude.
I don't think you understand. These stones will explode. Boom. Explosion =/= Machine gun rounds. And to show how fast she can throw them-
No, I don't think you understand. If DD dodges something flying at him, and it keeps flying, it's not going to explode. So yes, DD can dodge slow rocks flying at him. Unless Gambit can make them explode midflight, which he can't
Gambit has the mutant ability to tap into the potential energy contained within an object and transform it into kinetic energy upon touching it. When Gambit thus charges an object and throws it at a target, the object releases this energy explosively on impact
Marvel.Com/univerese/Gambit
Anyway.
She has amazing reaction speed, as seen in the video above- a stone is thrown at her from behind and she whirls around to catch it in a split second. Also, if Snake Eyes' plan works, it won't bring down the whole stone building. It isn't like when she isn't focusing on it it fixes itself- it will stay if she goes down. Gambit still has 52 projectiles to work with.
That still doesn't explain/show how fast stuff in the Avatar U works. I'm sorry. A quick head shot is all it will take. As for the tower thing, that's still fine.
As far as our team cooperation goes, that's up to @jonez120 to decide. Nothing in the rule suggested that the characters wouldn't work together. He wouldn't add Xenomorphs and zombies, if they wouldn't work with their team. Lol.
Each battle takes place in Nuketown! Start on opposite sides.
This tournament consists of street levelers and meta humans.
Everyone has 15 points to spend for characters, troops, and vehicles.
You can not have one specific character that has been taken already. You may however have troops and vehicles that have been taken already.
You may multiply your number of troops or vehicles by any amount, as long as you also multiply your number of points spent by the same.
Looking for 6-10 teams. (There is a possibility of a 3 way battle.)
Please no insults, remember, we're only doing this for fun!
Things to take into account before drafting team.
You will have 30 minutes of prep to make a plan, so picking a tactician could be good for your team!
Even with prep, you are still limited to standard gear. You can however trade standard gear among characters if you so feel. (No, you can't trade the symbiote)
If the opposing team has 50 zombies and you only have melee fighters...Yikes...
When the battle starts, your team will not know of the other team's location.
Sorry, all I have is the typical scans of him tagging Spiderman and Daken
Bullseye throws them pretty fast, managing to hit DD even though he has radar sense. I'm sure he'll tag Deathstroke, will it pierce through? Maybe. Maybe not.
I highly doubt it. Nth metal armor can tank hits from Hawkman, and even his helmet is bulletproof from machine gun fire. (Scans available if you want me to show you)
It's debatable. He has bested Daredevil, Elektra, Black Widow, Gambit, in h2h. So it's a pretty rad dude.
It's also debatable that Slade can take any of those people as well. However, Slade and Deadshot- now there are some odds in my favor.
No, I don't think you understand. If DD dodges something flying at him, and it keeps flying, it's not going to explode. So yes, DD can dodge slow rocks flying at him. Unless Gambit can make them explode midflight, which he can't.
What if the rock hits the ground? It'll obviously explode, and the explosion will send smaller rocks flying in several directions.
That still doesn't explain/show how fast stuff in the Avatar U works. I'm sorry. A quick head shot is all it will take. As for the tower thing, that's still fine.
She can still make a stone tent, or cover herself 100 percent like she did in the video with the metal.
As far as our team cooperation goes, that's up to @jonez120 to decide. Nothing in the rule suggested that the characters wouldn't work together. He wouldn't add Xenomorphs and zombies, if they wouldn't work with their team. Lol.
Got it.
Each battle takes place in Nuketown! Start on opposite sides.
This tournament consists of street levelers and meta humans.
Everyone has 15 points to spend for characters, troops, and vehicles.
You can not have one specific character that has been taken already. You may however have troops and vehicles that have been taken already.
You may multiply your number of troops or vehicles by any amount, as long as you also multiply your number of points spent by the same.
Looking for 6-10 teams. (There is a possibility of a 3 way battle.)
Please no insults, remember, we're only doing this for fun!
Things to take into account before drafting team.
You will have 30 minutes of prep to make a plan, so picking a tactician could be good for your team!
Even with prep, you are still limited to standard gear. You can however trade standard gear among characters if you so feel. (No, you can't trade the symbiote)
If the opposing team has 50 zombies and you only have melee fighters...Yikes...
When the battle starts, your team will not know of the other team's location.
It's a sad attempt for a win...
It wasn't an attempt for a win- just something to bring up.
I highly doubt it. Nth metal armor can tank hits from Hawkman, and even his helmet is bulletproof from machine gun fire. (Scans available if you want me to show you)
While it is durable, people have been able to get past the blue mesh part of his armor before. While it is maid of Nth metal, it is composed up of other earth metals. So it's not completely invulnerable to attacks.
It's also debatable that Slade can take any of those people as well. However, Slade and Deadshot- now there are some odds in my favor.
Wut?
What if the rock hits the ground? It'll obviously explode, and the explosion will send smaller rocks flying in several directions.
It would explode, yes. But would any of those rocks be charged like the rest? If they are or are not, DD's radar sense can detect them.
She can still make a stone tent, or cover herself 100 percent like she did in the video with the metal.
So then what will she be doing? Also, Snake eyes has been seen cutting through metal and break through stone. What's to say Snake Eyes can't do the same to the tent.
While it is durable, people have been able to get past the blue mesh part of his armor before. While it is maid of Nth metal, it is composed up of other earth metals. So it's not completely invulnerable to attacks.
So? Bullseye won't know about the blue mesh part- let alone the Nth metal itself.
Wut?
I mean, if Slade and Floyd work together. Chances are they can take Bullseye.
It would explode, yes. But would any of those rocks be charged like the rest? If they are or are not, DD's radar sense can detect them.
No, but they will be going at pretty fast speeds.
So then what will she be doing? Also, Snake eyes has been seen cutting through metal and break through stone. What's to say Snake Eyes can't do the same to the tent.
She'll put up the tent before giving Gambit ammo to launch. And SE won't be on the tower. Even if he is, it isn't like it won't be totally guarded by my team, and Toph won't be helpless either.
@_atomikill_: Man your plan keeps changing lol. Voting soon, so let's top this off.
The Battle So Far
Toph will make a stone tower that will give your team an advantage. Leaving your goons down there, they will be slaughtered by the Xenos. But realistically, any member of my team could solo 40 goons. While the goons get demolished, the rest of my team can use their great agility to scale the stone building via surrounding buildings. I can't tell if Toph will be in a tent or not, but I'll give it to you and say she will be in a tent. Accourding to you, Gambit will charge stones, stones that their size was never stated, will be launched at my team.
I still believe my team can dodge and fight back at the same time.
With my team on the building, Snakeyes and Bullseye can throw/shoot at your team, distracting them. I know Gambit will be throwing rocks, but can he charge them and focus on not getting a bullet in him? So with the artilliary down for the moment, my team has a chance to strike.
So!
Deadshot
I can say with confedeness that DD, Bullseye, and Elektra can take him on. While he does posses great marksmen ship, he is no't going to make it past these great h2h masters in close combat.
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All can easily dodge his shots.
Deadshot doesn't have any feats to put him on their level of h2h. There just isn't much to say after that.
Deathstroke
Another fearsome fighter on your team. I believe Snake Eyes or Elektra can take him on. Both have such speed and technique. Now, we've both seen Deastroke's armor get pierced by swords. So there is not doubt that some one like Snake Eyes could have the speed and skill to actually cut him open.
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Just to give you an idea on his speed
Deflecting multiple bullets
Catching 3 arrows
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Snake Eyes uses both ranged and melee at ounce, this will be difficult to deal with
No would this be an easy fight for Snake Eyes. Hell. No. But could he pull off such a thing? I believe so.
Gambit
This guy is a toughy. DD has faced him before and it was a stand still. Who on my team could take on Gambit? Bullseye. I've already posted it, but the moment Bullseye takes him on, he's finished.
Toph
I hate to sound like this. But almost everybody on my team could finish her. In h2h and at a range. I still have yet to see any bullet level speeds from her. Snakeyes could easily pull a head shot off or Bullseye, or Elektra.
Now while this is all going on, the remaining Xenos can climb the wall and give my team back up. These stalemate situations will be sorted by the bugs over running the building. While I'm sure Deadshot can take a few out, he'll be more worried about the capes climbing the building to take him out.
This is pretty much my last post, unless we have more time. Good luck!
wow.. great debate guys.. i was watching this match since i saw the first strategy post.. then i followed every post after that... will give my voting soon :)
Anyway, atomikill has the better team. Toph wouldn't know her team was a group of badguys. I doubt they would say hey "We're the bad guys, wanna work with us?"
Xenomorphs are a waste of points in this tourney, when there is no rule they have to obey you. Also putting, Elektra, DD, and Bullseye on the same team? When there is no rule that teammates have to get along or can't attack each other? What's gonna stop them from beating up Bulls or vice versa? Nothing.
My vote is for Atomikill. Better teamwork. Teamwork, makes the dream work.
@_atomikill_: @jwalser3: Great job both of you. I have to give my vote to atomkill. I think he ever so slightly had a better team and starting plan. Besides that you guys where pretty much even, just those factors tipped the balance.
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