Vision (AOU) vs Superman (MOS)

@hyperlight: saw it again today. The fight that took place at the end was an upgraded vibranium body. Stark does comment on it. I thought he used it all up making visions body, but whatever....seems like a waste to make a vibranium body you are going to dump anyway since he planned to used visions all along.

@shazam117: He phased his fingers through Ultron's head.

After quickly looking at some replays of the clip in question, I'm not sure they do. The light when he phases is usually green but the light on his fingers when they were on Ultron's head was orange.

If they did phase through his head it, it was slow and obviously took lots of effort on Vision's part. It also didn't leave any vestiges of damage.

Lemme check the Jack Sparrow version *checks*.

Well, part of his fingers disappear.

@i_am_lightning: Oh, I see. I remember the part where he cuts off Ultron from the Net, but I must have not noticed he phased his fingers into Ultrons head. I'll probably be going to see this again this weekend

Only if you ignore in the scene before Scarlet Witch vaporizing the surrounding Ultronbots with her telekinesis. So shocker, Scarlet Witch is pulling off Manhattan shenanigans with her powers.

Vibranium has also been shown to be vulnerable to extreme heat, which MoS just so happens to have.

Vibranium no-shows disintegrating blasts of energy and took superficial damage from lightning (which burns a lot hotter than heat-ray vision is EVER shown to) and a plot-gem.

Vision is downed by Ultron level striking, which is, honestly speaking, simply poor.

Speculation. Ultron was phasing Thor with brute strength alone.

Even Ultron was completely incapable of deal with Hulk at all. It was almost comical how useless he was against Hulk.

Off-screen and very much not peak level Ultron.

Vision stomps.

Again, Ultronbots have incredibly low durability. Hawkeye was beating them by slamming his bow into them. He was stabbing them with normal arrows with nothing but normal human arm strength.

Heat vision shown to instantly sublimate structural steel is in excess of the heat required for low tier lightning. We have no idea how hot Thor's lightning is, except that it's lightning.

Ultron surprises and punches Thor 4 times before he can really react and then Thor holds Ultron in place so he can get hit in the back by Vision. Thor wasn't scuffed (assumption of sub Kurse level striking) and while being choked spoke easily and without gagging... as one would normally do if being choked by someone who was capable of choking them out... It's not impressive striking/strength in the least and there's context behind it.

Peak level Ultron, even after having his face melted, still got swatted away by moderately annoyed Hulk strength. Reduced face plate durability or no, getting swatted away and needing to retreat is being comically useless to me. Ultron is never directly hit by Thor in the whole movie.

Regardless of all of this, MoS's physical stats all dwarf Vision's in terms of feats. Vision has shown no ability to impede MoS whatsoever as long as he won't phase against a living being.

It doesn't matter how durable the titanium robots are when telekinesis is turning them into dust.

Heat vision shown to instantly sublimate structural steel is in excess of the heat required for low tier lightning. We have no idea how hot Thor's lightning is, except that it's lightning.

Melting point of steel is less than 3 thousand degrees (f); lightning burns nearly or over 20x times that.

Ultron surprises and punches Thor 4 times before he can really react and then Thor holds Ultron in place so he can get hit in the back by Vision. Thor wasn't scuffed (assumption of sub Kurse level striking) and while being choked spoke easily and without gagging... as one would normally do if being choked by someone who was capable of choking them out... It's not impressive striking/strength in the least and there's context behind it.

So Thor is getting owned on purpose just so the Vision could surprised attack Ultron? That doesn't make anysense; Thor wasn't restraining / holding Ultron in place.

Peak level Ultron, even after having his face melted, still got swatted away by moderately annoyed Hulk strength. Reduced face plate durability or no, getting swatted away and needing to retreat is being comically useless to me. Ultron is never directly hit by Thor in the whole movie.

Off-screen he got thrown out of the Quinjet - that's all that happened. The fact Ultron was over-powering Thor implies a fight with the Hulk wouldn't have been one-sided.

Regardless of all of this, MoS's physical stats all dwarf Vision's in terms of feats. Vision has shown no ability to impede MoS whatsoever as long as he won't phase against a living being.

The Vision only had about 5 minutes of feats; so yeah, MOS Superman does actually have better physical stat feats. Since when was phasing an instant death sentence in fiction? In all likelihood the Vision is probably going to use phasing quite a bit in phase 3 on living people - since that's one his main powers.

@isaac_clarke: Melting point =/= instant sublimation point. Lightning is between 10k and 50k F. Assuming Thor's lightning is at the high end is just as valid as assuming that it's at the low end, unless you have some insider info tell us it's high end or above. Thor's lightning has also been shown to be absorbed by an Iron Man suit before, so how much exactly it was even affecting Ultron is debatable.

Thor got surprised and then punched 4 times... then got grabbed by the neck. Stop trying to make it sound like he was on the cusp of dying. He was completely uninjured and cracking a joke... Thor notices Vision behind Ultron and then stops even trying to fight back. If you look at his hands in the scene he's definitely holding Ultron in place and not trying to pry Ultron's fingers from his throat.

Ultron got punked by Hulk twice. Both times he was swatted away like he didn't matter. His "fight" with Thor has context and never shows him having the durability to take a hit. It never puts his strength against Thor's. All it does is show that when he had the tempo advantage he didn't lose it, Iron Man did much the same in Avengers sans the neck gripping (Thor doesn't seem able to instantly crush vibranium).

I don't care that you think Vision will use phasing on living people in upcoming movies. It didn't happen in AoU. Vision has shown an unwillingness to kill or maim. He's shown difficulty phasing against Ultron level durability. As of now, he won't use phasing offensively vs MoS. He hasn't shown using it defensively at all.

As of now, he's literally just MoS with worse physicals in every feat respect with a forehead repulsor instead of heat vision.

Making Leviathans explode / blasting them apart on contact - despite their armor impervious to Tony's instant-titanium cutting lasers.

Thor's lightning has also been shown to be absorbed by an Iron Man suit before, so how much exactly it was even affecting Ultron is debatable.

Thor wasn't exactly bombarding the suit with lightning in Avengers;

Ultron is sporting a completely different design and potentially an entirely different power-source. There is zero reason to believe he will magically absorb energy in fights; either-way it doesn't matter since the Mind-Gem is likely doing most of the work since it's a giant plot device.

Thor got surprised and then punched 4 times... then got grabbed by the neck. Stop trying to make it sound like he was on the cusp of dying. He was completely uninjured and cracking a joke... Thor notices Vision behind Ultron and then stops even trying to fight back. If you look at his hands in the scene he's definitely holding Ultron in place and not trying to pry Ultron's fingers from his throat.

Thor was getting smacked around by Ultron; it wasn't some elaborate rouse to wait to the Vision to wake up from his self-induced KO with the Mind Gem. While Thor took the opportunity to have the Vision surprise attack Ultron while serving as a distraction - that's not the same as him 'holding Ultron in place' when Thor's the one being held and clearly effected by it.

Ultron got punked by Hulk twice. Both times he was swatted away like he didn't matter. His "fight" with Thor has context and never shows him having the durability to take a hit. It never puts his strength against Thor's. All it does is show that when he had the tempo advantage he didn't lose it, Iron Man did much the same in Avengers sans the neck gripping (Thor doesn't seem able to instantly crush vibranium).

The Hulk dropped in after Ultron was bombared by the Mind Gem, repulsors and Thor's lightning and punched him off into the distance; then again tossed out of the Quinjet - both times this was already a damaged Ultron and not the one that was restraining Thor.

And we've seen Cap's shield tank hits from Thor - so there's a good chance a robot made of the same material would have similar durability to that striking power. Just like the machine Ultron created that survives the entire city being torn apart or Ultron himself does when the Vision whacks him with Mjolnir.

I don't care that you think Vision will use phasing on living people in upcoming movies. It didn't happen in AoU. Vision has shown an unwillingness to kill or maim.

Vision's entire introducing into the MCU consists of killing and maiming Ultron on multiple fronts. It doesn't matter what he says if that's he does.

He's shown difficulty phasing against Ultron level durability.

You just made this completely up. The Vision KOs himself using the Mind Gem to delete Ultron's mind from the net - that's about all the issues he had with Ultron.

As of now, he won't use phasing offensively vs MoS. He hasn't shown using it defensively at all.

Based off nothing.

As of now, he's literally just MoS with worse physicals in every feat respect with a forehead repulsor instead of heat vision.

Well it helps that the one appearance the Vision has consists of completely over-powering Ultron physically. And that he himself is made of Vibranium and thus far was largely unharmed by anything in AoU. And that the laser in his head comes from an infinity gem - whose power is literally hijacking minds.

@isaac_clarke: The Mind Gem repulsor is not shown to be anything other than a repulsor in combat.

Your assumptions that it did the lion's share vs Ultron are completely unfounded. There's just no evidence for it. Not even a visual effect showing the repulsor in a different light than one of Iron Man's repulsors.

Vision never uses phasing to avoid attacks in the entire movie. That's what I meant by using phasing defensively. If he's never done it, even when it would have been beneficial to him, then why would he do it against MoS?

Vision does not resort to using offensive phasing vs Ultron even to debilitate when Ultron is completely stationary and vulnerable, this denotes either an unwillingness to phase to even do completely non-lethal crippling or a lack of confidence that such an attack would work -whether it be from difficulty phasing or Ultron noticing and knocking him away is unclear-. When Vision first phases against Ultron the color of his phasing is off (orange rather than green) and he seems to be struggling, so I would lean towards the former.

Ultron being "largely unharmed" is fine. The fact that he was consistently ragdolled by Hulk is enough to make him a non-factor vs MoS.

Nowhere in the movie does Vision physically overpower Ultron. He has literally two physical confrontations with him where he grabs Ultron's head for 5 seconds then collapses in exhaustion and getting punched into a church ceiling by Ultron and not even being punched through a wall... Ultron even slams Vision down while he's basically unconscious and barely kicks up dust. There is no evidence that Ultron's striking is particularly better than Iron Man's.

As much as you'd like to say Ultron smacked around Thor, it's not exactly impressive as stated earlier. Iron Man in the Avengers smacked around Thor. It didn't amount to anything. Thor wasn't damaged there and he wasn't damaged here either.

Except that time the Vision used it to delete / lock Ultron's mind?

Your assumptions that it did the lion's share vs Ultron are completely unfounded. There's just no evidence for it.Not even a visual effect showing the repulsor in a different light than one of Iron Man's repulsors.

Not true.

Vision never uses phasing to avoid attacks in the entire movie. That's what I meant by using phasing defensively. If he's never done it, even when it would have been beneficial to him, then why would he do it against MoS?

I haven't argued he'd used it defensively once. Stop baiting and inflating the argument.

Vision does not resort to using offensive phasing vs Ultron even to debilitate when Ultron is completely stationary and vulnerable, this denotes either an unwillingness to phase to even do completely non-lethal crippling or a lack of confidence that such an attack would work -whether it be from difficulty phasing or Ultron noticing and knocking him away is unclear-. When Vision first phases against Ultron the color of his phasing is off (orange rather than green) and he seems to be struggling, so I would lean towards the former.

He was using the mind-gem to delete his mind from the internet / trap Ultron in his physical bodies.

Ultron being "largely unharmed" is fine. The fact that he was consistently ragdolled by Hulk is enough to make him a non-factor vs MoS.

Ignoring the context of Ultron not being at peak levels.

Nowhere in the movie does Vision physically overpower Ultron.

Within the first moments of meeting Ultron he physically over-powers him / wipes his mind from the web. Ultron couldn't do anything until after the Vision had KOed himself in the process.

He has literally two physical confrontations with him where he grabs Ultron's head for 5 seconds then collapses in exhaustion and getting punched into a church ceiling by Ultron and not even being punched through a wall... Ultron even slams Vision down while he's basically unconscious and barely kicks up dust. There is no evidence that Ultron's striking is particularly better than Iron Man's.

Minus Thor being hurt by his punches compared to Iron Man's completely lack of being able to do the same against Thor.

As much as you'd like to say Ultron smacked around Thor, it's not exactly impressive as stated earlier. Iron Man in the Avengers smacked around Thor.

And amped Iron Man was still getting trashed by Thor in Avengers; he was crushing Tony's armor in his hands.

It didn't amount to anything. Thor wasn't damaged there and he wasn't damaged here either.

I think being able to hurt and restrain Thor means Ultron is physically VERY strong. If you honestly believe otherwise more power to you.

Superman wins this he is much physically above Vision in strength, speed and striking he also has heat vision. And for those saying Vision has telepathy lol cuz he never did anything of the sort and he is not phasing Clark, all he phased was fodder Ultron bots, he could not phase Ultron's Vibranium body so yes his phasing has limits which depends on the opponent's durability, and whose to say Clark will just stay there and let Vision try to phase him ? never knew Supes was such a helpless statue lol

@heaven_sings7: you alredy got yo ass whooped by me in the other thread to the point where you had no answers in the end, but here we go again: Vision phased his fingers through Ultrons's head.

Heat vision? Even Stark's repulsors are more powerful.

Vision is also made of vibranium that as i have demonstrated, is simply off kryptonian's paygrade.

Vision is also quite strong since he was on par with Ultron.

On a last note: even if Vision didn't phase through Ultron's head, there's nothing to suggest he couldn't, after all, his mission wasn't to kill Ultron.

Superman with EMP.

@gxrevolution96:who would vision use his mind gem in avengers 2? the mind gem keeps all previosu feats

@i_am_lightning: Lol what are you talking about I got my ass whooped ? lmao stop taking internet debates to heart so much...and stop cowering behind phasing cuz Vision has never phased anyone on Clark's level of durability, and no Stark's repulsors are not more powerful than heat vision stop being stupid, Cap easily tanked them, Thor easily tanked them to the face in Avengers, Thor can't tank a face full of heat vision from Superman, they even cut thick steel beams like paper while Thor's face was cut up from a vehicle sized boulder thrown at him, Superman can clearly damage Thor greatly with Heat Vision.. anyway Superman still wrecks Vision who has no feats to put him on Supes level

Oh yes, because he was trying to kill Caps.
He melted a tank in IM 1, better feat than melting a steel beam.

By logic, if Thor got IM's repulsors to the face when IM was bloodlusted(in fact he was overcharged) and can easily shrugh them off, he can tank heat vision.

You wanna lowball? Superman got k.o'd by a tower that wheight in 2000 tons at best. Later in the film he got k.o'd by Faora, who has sub-par striking power compared to MCU Thor and Hulk.

I'm cowering behind phasing because as i said, it's the only way for Vision to win. He phased through the head of vibranium armor Ultron, you twat.

Even if hadn't, there's nothing to suggest he couldn't.

Language. Now kiss and make up kiddies.

@isaac_clarke: I don't see how technopathy is going to help Vision vs MoS.

When you strike out a part of my post and say it's "based off nothing", I feel the need to respond to that. You were overhyping Vision's phasing usage, that was my rebuttal.

Iron Man was smacking around Thor -dealing no damage- just the same in Avengers. Just his suit wasn't made of Vibranium.

For what reason do you think Vision's suit is physically superior to Iron Man's? What feat show this?

Visions lack of using phasing when it would have been useful in debilitating Ultron is either his admission that it would be too difficult, less useful than striking with Mjolnir, or simply out of character. Any of the three would be good news to MoS, who has better durability than any of the Avengers, and has better durability feats than Ultron.

Phasing is Vison's only real weapon here and it's inapplicable.

I don't see where your argument for him winning is. Or where your feats to back up that claim might be.

I also don't understand what Ultron's face being melted has to do with his unability to react at all or put up any resistance to Hulk. Ultron doesn't feel pain. Why would damage to his faceplate reduce his combat efficacy at all beyond reducing his durability?

You're making it sound like "peak level Ultron" somehow has physical feats that are contentious with Hulk/Thor/MoS... when he just doesn't. He has punching Thor 4 times and then gripping him while "restrained" Thor doesn't even try to break his grip in the slightest...

morals on vision probably won't win

Hey he's the one who started with the language, and I won't really debate with users when they start doing that, time to ignore him

@heaven_sings7: I'm just looking out for fellow viners. I know things can get heated but we still shouldn't turn to insults and swearing. Granted it happens to the best of us.

I agree the phasing argument is kind of invalid, its clear his phasing has limits and has trouble getting past opponents with insane toughness/durability

@boringperson: I'm gonna clarify, that Ultron did make Thor gurgle, he could barely breath or speak. He beat on him severely, even when Thor finally realized it he still had him. As for the failure you call MOS, Clark was not only weak, but in all his fights, he got knocked around like nothing by simple light taps. Super-man was forced to kill Zod, and struggled to even do that. Vision said he fights only when he has to, and to be accurate, he used the gem to vaporize Ultron, not blow him up. Also, Ultron is at or around Thor's level, he easily thrashed Thor, proving he is very powerful, or mediocre. Also, Widow's guns barely fazed the sentries Ultron released. Hawkeye was struggling with them, as they kept pulling out the arrows and getting up. Also, Vision did indeed phase into his head slightly, but only to complete his goal, not end him. He didn't want to kill Ultron, he wanted to help him. Therefore, Vision can not only handle Clark, but over-power and beat him.

Sigh. This should be locked. At least until "Civil War" where get some more feats from Vision.

I'll say Vision curbstomos.

Give it another month or so and the vision sank will go down significantly

Thor was speaking clearly, didn't gurgle, and cracked a joke completely clearly... he also didn't try to pry Ultron's fingers off him or slam into the elbow to loose his grip.... he just grabbed his forearm. I'm definitely not watching a completely non-pirated version on my computer right now to make sure that I'm right. Definitely.

As for getting beat on, Thor was completely uninjured and unscuffed, unlike vs Kurse where he blatantly was. Further, getting beat on was already explained multiple times. Surprised, thrown into a church, got a man sized pillar thrown at him, punched 4 times... Ultron never tanks one of Thor's strikes. Ultron never overcomes his strength. All he shows in the confrontation is that he could hold a tempo advantage. Perhaps reasonably higher combat speed.

MoS snaps Zod's neck with absolute ease when it happens. Regardless Zod > MoS. MoS also gets knocked away by other Kryptonians... Ultron got knocked literally out of scene by Vision using Mjolnir and Hulk humiliating him twice. MoS's strength feats are also better than anyone in the MCU sans Hulk.

Vision never vaporizes Ultron. That just never happens. He deletes Ultron from the web, that's not vaporizing Vibranium though.

Widow's guns straight disabled them and Hawkeye was puncturing through them and their armor with arrows his punched into them... not even shot. Widow wholesale slaughtered them with a truck with a snowplow on it....

Vision phasing into his head slightly doesn't mean he can phase straight through. The slight phasing has different coloring than usually (orange vs normal green) and was obviously taxing. Whether or not he could punch all the way through is hard to know... Regardless, even when Vision had the perfect opportunity in sneaking up on Ultron he chooses to use Thor's hammer which only knocked Ultron away instead of using his phasing to... say... severe Ultron's head from his body? Phase off an arm? Phase off his power core? All of which wouldn't have killed Ultron or caused any sort of physical pain?

So it's out of Vision's character to use and may be inapplicable against opponents of high durability.

So, in short, your whole post is terrible. None of it is substantiated and much of it is outright wrong. Come back with some real points, preferably after reading the Battle Bible and the Battle Forum Rules. They're truly quite helpful to the enjoyment of newer posters like yourself :)

Please do come again afterwards.

I must have missed the place in the movie where Vision actually becomes intangible.

Superman wins.

Clark. Most of what people are saying in favor of Vision is just speculation or statements. No actual feats. Phasing through fodder does not mean he can phase through anything. Especially since if he could phase through anything, why not phase through Ultron and rip out what powers him?

@boringperson: He vaporized Ultron while he was in the last sentry. Check again, I know I'm right.

I'd take Superman. Vision was a boss, and I loved his design (except for the eyes), but he was lacking in feats. I didn't see anything impressive except partial phasing, and I think Superman can account for that.

@i_am_lightning: please explain your theory of why ironman beams being more powerful than heat vision.?.even tho the beams are disposed in 2 seconds while heat vision is everlasting continuous heat

Iron Man 1. He melts a tank.

????

@masterkungfu: What?

@monte-cristo: there's nothing to suggest he can't phase through Clark.

Perhaps he's hinting at that despite it being used against fodder, disintergrating is a good feat? Not so sure.

@i_am_lightning: The fact that the only thing he phased through was fodder that black widow could tear apart? Or the fact that he never phased through Ultron and ended the entire conflict? Phasing through fodder does not mean he can phase through anything. There's plenty to suggest he can't phase through Clark. It's the same thing with his vibranium body. Now everyone acts as if he can't be hurt despite the fact there's nothing to suggest this. Honestly, I've rarely seen so much baseless speculation for a character with so little feats as I have with Vision