#1 Posted by Esquire (3833 posts) - - Show Bio

Tournament Rules:

§ All parties involved in a debate must state they are ready for voting before votes are taken into consideration. Meaning anyone who votes prior to this point will be discounted.

§ Personal attack are prohibited. At any point, if you insult your fellow debater(s), and they feel personally insulted, I will ask you apologize for the jest. I'm not talking about joking around, or meaningless jabs at one another, I'm talking about over the line insulting and ridicule. If someone is offended, either apologize, or under the even someone really crosses a line, they will be flagged and kicked out of the tournament.

§ Feats must be backed up with scans, or at the very least sourced. For example, if you know something happened and what issue it's from, but don't have the scan, just source the issue. If you can find the scan, great. However, if you are just pulling information off a wiki, and can't find what issue it's actually from, then as far as I'm concerned it is irrelevant. Even sourcing the Story Arc would be fine.

§ Follow the character rules, battle rules, and the scenarios given.

§ As always, respect each other.

Team

  • City Level: Link
  • Equipment: Master Sword, Mirror Shield, Goddess Bow, Fire/Ice/Light/Bomb Arrows, Red Tunic, Fire Shield Earings, Golden Gauntlets, Bunny Hood, Lense of Truth, Magic Armor, Din's Fire, Wallet with 99,999 Rubies
  • Street Level+: Gambit
  • Equipment: Bo Staff, Trench Coat, Standard Uniform, 5 Decks of Cards
  • Street Level+: Hitomi
  • Equipment: None
  • Street Level+: King Bradley
  • Equipment: Four Sabres, 3 Frag Grenades
  • Street Level+: Blink
  • Equipment: Bolts
  • Team

  • City Level: Cloud Strife (Final Fantasy 7 Franchise only)
  • Equipment: Fushion Sword, Fire Materia, Lightning Materia, Haste Materia, Heal Materia, SOLDIER Uniform, 2 Elixers, Fenrir, Ribbon
  • Street Level+: Hei (With Powers)
  • Equipment: 6 Throwing Knives, Mask, Black Coat, Metal Wire
  • Street Level+: Vincent Valentine (Transformations: Disabled)
  • Equipment: Cerberus, Standard Uniform, 12 Backup Clips, Ribbon
  • Street Level+: Greed (Ling Yao)
  • Equipment: Dao Sword, 2 Flash Grenades, 2 Frag Grenades
  • Street Level+: Kadaj
  • Equipment: Fire Materia, Lightning Materia, Souba, Motorcycle
  • Battle Conditions:

    1. Prep - Yes. One character from each team gets a week's worth of prep, and after that each entire team gets three days of prep. May create a maxiumum of three devices, all of which they have to have knowledge on how to create, and characters only have access to their own resources.
    2. Morals On
    3. Bloodlust Off
    4. BFR Disabled
    5. Sherlock starts at the left statue, Floopay at the right statue, city is one mile across from statue to statue.
    6. Location:

    Perks:

    I am Vengeance, I am the Night!

    The battle is at night, and your team gets three pairs of Batman-Caliber night-vision goggles.

    Click...Click...

    Each member of your team gets a motion detector from Aliens, which works in a 250-foot radius

    We are one.

    Your team is telepathically linked

    Share your thoughts with me.

    One member of your team gets telepathic movereading on the level of Mister X/The Gorgon. Cannot use TP for offensive purposes, only for reading minds. Works on one opponent at a time.

    #2 Posted by Floopay (8721 posts) - - Show Bio

    @Esquire:

    I'll take "We are one"

    Prep Character: Cloud Strife

    I'll cover prep later, I'm kinda tired and it's getting pretty late for me (it's like 9pm here, and yes, I feel old saying it's late for me).

    I can do an opening argument tomorrow if you'd like, but here some basic information for you if you want it.

    Team Overview:

    Cloud Strife

    Source(s):

    • Final Fantasy 7
    • Final Fantasy 7: Crisis Core
    • Final Fantasy 7: Last Orders
    • Final Fantasy 7: On the Way to a Smile
    • Final Fantasy 7: The Maiden Who Travels the Lifestream
    • Final Fantasy 7: Advent Children
    • Final Fantasy 7: Dirge of Cerberus

    Equipment:

    Fushion Sword - It's a single sword that contains 6 swords in one

    Fire Materia - Extremely powerful concussive blast that also creates immense heat and fire.

    Lightning Materia - Extremely powerful concussive blast that also creates immense amounts of electricity.

    Haste Materia - Increases the users speed several times over for very brief periods of time.

    Heal Materia - Can cure any condition placed on a person. Can also create a magic barrier to shield someone from any adverse condition change.

    SOLDIER Uniform - No real feats on the uniform itself, I just don't have any feats of Cloud when not wearing it...other than him in a dress...but....yeah lets not go there.

    2 Elixers - Heals the user spiritually and physically.

    Fenrir - Cloud's custom motorcycle, contains slots for his sword, extremely maneuverable, the thing can turn on a dime.

    Ribbon - Protects wearer from all adverse condition changes. Sickness, charm, confusion, death attacks, paralysis, etc.

    Powers:

    Superhuman Stats:

    Strength - Cloud has shoved a being through several floors of steel and concrete. He can slice through large chunks of steel and concrete debris with little to no effort. Can leap vast distances, and blocking an attack from him provides sufficient enough force to leave a crater below the feet of the person blocking

    Reflexes/Speed - Superhuman levels of speed, and can dodge and deflect bullets with little to no effort, even from point blank range, and even while fighting multiple opponents. He has also dodged lightning bolts, and defended and fought against multiple hasted opponents simultaneously.

    Enhanced Perception - Cloud is enhanced beyond the levels of your average SOLDIER member. Additionally, he has absorbed all the feats and memories observed from Zack Fair and told by Zack Fair. As a result, Cloud's level of perception is far above those of your average human being.

    Durability - Cloud has been thrown through steel and concrete with little to no effect to his person. He has also survived multiple stab wounds (including through his heart) and continued fighting. He has immense resistance towards heat and electricity, and can withstand arctic temperatures much longer than your average human being.

    Magic

    Materia - Through materia, Cloud has some degree of magic depending on what is equipped.

    Levitation

    Flight/Levitation - Mostly used to control himself in aerial combat, Cloud has also displayed levitation under his own power

    Limit Breaks

    These are the limit breaks that have been confirmed in multiple continuities:

    Braver - A single, powerful swing with his weapon, can produce a cone effect outwards that rips through steel

    Cross-Slash - A powerful ability that not only deals devastating levels of damage, but also stuns or paralyzes his opponents.

    Blade Beam - Cloud launches a ranged attack from his sword, capable of stopping a hill-sized earth based attack.

    Climmhazzard - Cloud cuts through nearly any material in a devastating single attack maneuver

    Finishing Touch - Cloud creates a powerful gust of wind with his sword, launching his enemies backwards

    Omnislash - Cloud performs a devastating 15 strike maneuver. When an opponent reveals a vulnerability in their defense, he can resort to this and catch them completely offguard for a chain of powerful attacks. It is most probably a variation of Zack Fair's "Chain Attack" maneuver.

    Omnislash v6 - Cloud performs a devastating 15 strike maneuver directly at one's soul, it is unblockable, and performed at blinding speeds. He can only use it when he is near dead, however.

    Skill Set:

    Master Swordsman - Cloud has not only the training and skills that came with his years of travel and fighting with his weapon, but has also received military training in combat. Over and above this, he has absorbed many of the memories of Zack Fair, including much of his swordsmanship abilities. He has proven that in combat, he can match Sephiroth and even get the upper hand on him.

    Master Driver - Cloud is an amazing cyclist, with his enhanced physical stats, he can do superhuman maneuvers on his motorcycle.

    Hei, the Black Contractor

    Source(s):

    • Darker Than Black
    • Darker Than Black: Ryuusei no Gemini
    • Darker Than Black: Kuro No Keiyakusha Gaiden

    Equipment:

    Throwing Knives (6) - He uses them in melee and ranged combat, and is extremely accurate with them.

    Mask - Provides some degree of protection, but by no means is indestructible

    Black Coat - Bullet proof in his hands, and provides a great degree of protection.

    Metal Wire - Much like Batman's grappling hook. However, he can also use it with his powers, and attach it to his knives.

    Powers

    Peak Human Stats

    Hei is peak human in almost all capacities. Including his cunning, his strength, speed, reflexes, etc. He is a proven bullet timer.

    Electric Manipulation

    Hei can use his power through almost any conductive medium, including water and metal. He can easily provide sufficient enough energy to kill a man outright.

    Skill Set

    Superb Marksman - Hei is not only extremely accurate with his throwing knives, but he is also very accurate with the metal wire he carries.

    Master Martial Artist - Hei is a master martial artist of what seems to be multiple styles. He is not only skilled in hand to hand, but he is also very skilled with his metal wire, and his throwing knives. Often using them to KO his opponents from a distance. He is a confirmed bullet timer, and can handle multiple super powered foes simultaneously.

    Master Tactician - Hei's brain is almost wired entirely for logic. He was a trained killer long before he obtained his powers, and was even more deadly once he acquired them. He often takes down multiple foes at or above his level through tactical analysis, situational awareness, and proper use of attack, retreat, and counter attack.

    Vincent Valentine

    Source(s):

    • Final Fantasy 7
    • Final Fantasy 7: Pre Crisis
    • Final Fantasy 7: On the Way to a Smile
    • Final Fantasy 7: Advent Children
    • Final Fantasy 7: Dirge of Cerberus

    Equipment:

    Cerberus - The term hand cannon describes this thing perfectly. It can punch holes through entire airships without slowing these bullets down. Shoots 3 bullets simultaneously, making it extremely difficult to block.

    Standard Uniform - Seems to be more than just a uniform, may very well be a part of him. His gauntlets are near indestructible, and he has used them to block ranged attacks and bullets, and his cloak seems to regenerate, though doesn't actually offer much protection, if any.

    12 Backup Clips - Each contains 18 bullets, or 6 shots.

    Ribbon - Protects the user from any adverse effects, see Cloud's description for more details.

    Powers:

    Superhuman Stats

    Strength - Vincent can leap vast distances in a single bound, easily overpower your average human, and can bend steel with little effort.

    Speed/Reflexes - Vincent is easily a bullet timer+, often dodging bullets from multiple sources simultaneously, as well as keeping up with characters who travel at mach speeds.

    Durability - Vincent can't shrug off bullets, but he can take more than an average person. He's resistant to blunt force, heat, and severe temperatures at either end of the spectrum.

    Chaos Power

    Can further enhance his speed and reflexes to a lesser degree. Essentially ups his perception by quite a bit from what I can tell.

    Regeneration

    Nothing to write home about, maybe Luke Cage level at best. It's enough to make him immortal, but it's not instant healing. It could take hours to recover from a minor wound. But again, that's hours instead of days.

    Skill Set:

    Master Marksman - Vincent can easily tag bullet timers, and mach-speed travelers with his bullets. And has a laundry list of defeated foes to prove so. His bullets can go through reinforced steel plating, and puncture through entire airships.

    Superb Martial Artist - Vincent is also a pretty decent martial artist, capable of going toe to toe with multiple foot soldiers.

    Tactical Genius - Vincent is about 60 years old, and a Turk (one of the highest ranking members of SHINRA).

    Greed (Ling Yao)

    Source:

    • Full Metal Alchemist: Brotherhood

    Equipment:

    Dao Sword - One of these:

    2 Flash Grenades - It's a flash grenade, creates a blinding flash against opponents.

    2 Fragmentation Grenades - Fragmentation grenade, creates a concussive force, followed by shrapnel. Extremely Dangerous

    Powers:

    Superhuman Stats

    Strength - Peak Human maybe? Possibly a bit above, but I don't put him anywhere above Captain America sort of peak human.

    Speed/Reflexes - I would say he's super human in this capacity. Once the Homunculus entered his body he could move at incredible speeds, with reflexes to match!

    Durability - I think even in his base form he's a bit above with the Homunculus in his body, but it really is only enhanced with his Ultimate Shield up.

    Ultimate Shield

    Extremely durable shield, capable of deflecting steel, and provides a huge amount of resistance towards...well...any attack really!

    Regeneration

    Wolverine Level Regeneration, but he cannot use it while using his Ultimate Shield

    Skills:

    Superb Swordsman - Ling Yao is an excellent swordsman in every capacity. He was trained by the best, and he truly reflects it in his style

    Superb Martial Artist - Ling Yao is an amazing martial artist. Capable of giving Bradley a run for his money in their encounter, he really proved that he could potentially be his equal.

    Great Tactician - Ling can strategize well with his team, and knows how to use people's strengths and weakness to his advantage.

    Demolitionist - Not many explosive feats, but he has shown that he knows how to use them well.

    Kadaj

    Source(s):

    • Final Fantasy 7: Lifestream Black
    • Final Fantasy 7: Advent Children

    Equipment:

    Souba - Double bladed katana, really effective at disarming, and a potent slicing weapon.

    Motorcycle - It's a futuristic motorcycle, nothing special about it really.

    Fire Materia - Allows for an extreme concussive blast with a heat and flame element.

    Lightning Materia - Allows for an extreme concussive blast with an electrical element to it.

    Powers:

    Superhuman Stats:

    Strength - Though enhanced, not nearly to the same level as Cloud. He can easily overpower your average human being, and could throw a grown man several meters under his own power, but that's probably about it.

    Agility/Reflexes - Far above human levels. Extremely agile, uses acrobatics and his superior reflexes to overpower his foes.

    Durability - Can survive great falls, but is not impervious to falling damage (meaning maximum velocity still effects him), resistant to heat, but he's not immune by any means.

    Magic

    Materia - Through materia, he can cast fire and lightning. But that's about it.

    Monster Summoning

    Shadow Creepers - Can summon these things from the lifestream, more on them later (as the rules state, he can only summon 3 throughout the entire battle).

    Intangibility

    Black Mist - Kadaj can assume a black mist form for the sake of travel, and for the sake of avoiding damage. More on that later.

    Skill Set

    Master Swordsman - Kadaj often uses his skills to disarm his foe, he has showns sufficient enough speed and skill to keep Cloud on the defensive, and prevent him from taking the offensive.

    Great Martial Artist - Same as above.

    Brutal Tactician - Kadaj has no qualms with using children or his own team mates to gain an advantage. He is without morals, and is known for his brutality.

    Bed Time....

    Thanks for reading,

    Floopay

    #3 Posted by Sherlock (7250 posts) - - Show Bio
    @Esquire: No one on my team is any good with prep.Im really hoping that Floop doesnt have something going on with because that would leave me at a serious disadvantage.Ill give my prep week to Blink all the same.She uses the week to get matching daggers.Since i gave her stipulations an edged weapon would be awesome for her. 
    For a perk ill takeShare your thoughts with me.This i will also give to Blink  
     
    Question.How wide is the city?
     
    @Floopay
    Im actually fully aware of what Hei(I didnt watch  Kuro No Keiyakusha Gaiden though.I should look into that.Per chance did you read the manga?) and Greeling can do.Thanks though.The FF characters iv been doing some digging on but i dont have much.  
     
     
    Ill assume you know about Gambit,Bradley,Hitomi,and perhaps Blink.Link will likely be the only one you are lacking in so anything you dont get feel free to ask. 
     
    As a basic Strategy 
     
    Since i dont have a detector thanks to Floop taking Links mask of scents,ill have to stick with old fashioned tracking.Blink ports herself and Hitomi around the city till they locate your team.Pretty simple.As long as they keep to the high ground and move quickly they shouldnt be caught.Once your team is found Blink will port back to my team leaving Hitomi to keep an eye on them and get an idea of who they are.Blink will then port my team back to where Hitomi is and make a plan.From after the plan of attack is made Blink drops my whole team onto yours and the battle ensues. 
     
    Obviously from the getgo i have an advantage in the surprise attack. 
     
    As is normal for team battles im going to match ups to make things easier on my brain 
     
    The way i see it going is 
    Link Vs Cloud (Both are the heavy hitters here its obvious that they will fight each other) 
    Bradley Vs Greeling (They have history and should therefore be drawn to each other) 
    Hei Vs Gambit (Both are specialists in maneuvering ranged attacks and have trench coats.But more to the point i think this is an awesome fight and will make it as soon as i finish up here) 
     
    Vincent and Kadaj i again know very little about so they have Hitomi and Blink to fight by default. 
     
    The only fights im going to get into right now are Bradley and Greeling and Blink and Hitomi vs Kadaj and Vincent.Im too tired to think much about Gambit and Hei and LInk will take a lot of time to explain. 
     
    Bradley and Greeling is easy.Bradley has fought both Greed and Ling seperate and together and every time he has won.(That does not include the instance where Fu and everyone else gained up on him.Again though Greeling was there and he still couldnt put him down even with all that help) 
      
      First fight 
       
      Second fight 
        
      
          OK so this one is odd.IN the first fight it cuts to a different scene at 3:06.Right after is where Fu (The old guy) comes in and the fight goes on from there 
     
      
      Fight before Ling was Greed. 
     
    As you can see Greeling never once beats him.Bradley has the upper hand in all the fights 
     
    And now that i look and see its 2 AM im deciding to call it quits and finish this tomorrow despite what i said earlier
    #4 Posted by Esquire (3833 posts) - - Show Bio

    @Sherlock said:

    Question.How wide is the city?

    Read the OP, silly!

    Sherlock starts at the left statue, Floopay at the right statue, city is one mile across from statue to statue.
    #5 Posted by Sherlock (7250 posts) - - Show Bio

    @Esquire: Thats the length i want the width

    I am Now BTW very pissed off since my battle was already made and the OP is poops.I need to figure something out for this because this is an awesome battle idea

    #6 Posted by Esquire (3833 posts) - - Show Bio

    @Sherlock: Let's call it a square, so a mile in each direction.

    And which battle was already made? Someone else made your and Floopay's match for this tourney? o.0

    #7 Posted by Sherlock (7250 posts) - - Show Bio

    @Esquire: Gambit Vs Hei.Great battle i must say but the OP is awful in the one i found.I could give you a Hei rundown here to show how good it is but that would kinda be adding firepower to Floop there

    #8 Posted by Esquire (3833 posts) - - Show Bio

    @Sherlock said:

    @Esquire: Gambit Vs Hei.Great battle i must say but the OP is awful in the one i found.I could give you a Hei rundown here to show how good it is but that would kinda be adding firepower to Floop there

    Oooooohhh, gotcha. Yeah, that could be a pretty interesting fight, from what I know of Hei.

    #9 Posted by Sherlock (7250 posts) - - Show Bio

    @Esquire said:

    @Sherlock said:

    @Esquire: Gambit Vs Hei.Great battle i must say but the OP is awful in the one i found.I could give you a Hei rundown here to show how good it is but that would kinda be adding firepower to Floop there

    Oooooohhh, gotcha. Yeah, that could be a pretty interesting fight, from what I know of Hei.

     

    I thought so.On the morrow im gonna repost it

    And iv now been inspired so im going to do a full opener tonight.

    @Floopay

    OK so iv gone over Greed and Bradley.Needless to say Bradley wins the encounter as he has done so over and over

    Link VS Cloud

    Without more intel on Cloud ill just stick to what Floop already posted here.

    First off is his ranged Materia.For starters Link using the fire shield earrings and the Goron Tunic he is pretty much immune to fire and heat.With the goron tunic he is capable of walking through lava with very little adverse affects.Lava is pretty hot

    The next line of defense is his shield.The Mirror Shield. 

      
      This is Twinrova.She/they use a mixture of fire and ice magic.As you can see Link is not only able to redirect the attacks but is also able to absorb them until he has enough power for a much larger blast.Any energy attacks that Cloud may use on him will be sent right back Elvis style.Unless Cloud is immune to all of his own attacks(As far as i can see the ribbon only protects him from status problems) then he is going to be in for a rude awakening.  
      
    Speed 
    With the Bunny hood on Link moves at twice his normal speed
      
    Strength
    Link is also super humanly strong with the Golden Guantlets. 
     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qon4eBR1rM4 
     
    Im skipping using actual vids so i dont clutter up the thread too much. 
    Anyway skip to 7:22 
    Watch in awe as Link not only lifts but throws the ridiculously large stone.Id reckon him at around 25 tons with the guantlets on. 
     
    Durability 
    Using the Magic Armor Link is almost impervious to attacks 
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5bgobWU8Lg 
    Skip to 3:00 Minutes thats when he starts wearing it.This also brings me to my time frame.The magic armor eats Rupies as you use it.As you can see 1000 will give you about 4 minutes.I have 99,999.Thats 6 hours if im not mistaken.Also note that he takes no damage when hit by Ganondorf while wearing the armor. 
     
    This battle is part 4 in the fight against Ganondorf in Twilight Princess 
    Part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpfn8f1jjHY&feature=relmfu  
    Part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AURERcWLbzw&feature=relmfu 
    Part 3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiyuoF9mixI 
     
    Part three is where i want to draw your attention.Gives a good measure of Ganondorfs power.At the beginning of the video you see the little green hovering girl?Thats Midna.Watch as she turns into a giant hulking beast and attacks Ganondorf.Next we go outside the castle and low and behold Ganondorf beat the snot out of her. 
     
    Another showing of what Midna is capable of 
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6_dSwFGTmg 
     
    Skill 
     
    Link is also a master swordsman. 
     
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uy5PQfezvSY 
     This is him taking on an entire army by himself.Some of which are archers and suicide bombers.That tends to make things difficult.Lets also note that he does not have his bunny hood,golden gauntlets,or magic armor in this fight.Needless to say one solid hit with a sword should kill him.Thats a lot of swords getting into the upper hundreds. 
     
    Right after that little powwow he fights the demon lord Girahim. 
    Ghirahim is a powerful magic user,able to create weapons(Some of which he will control via TK) and barriers like its nothing.He is also a great swordman and teleporter with super speed and durability
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJBMUyekvhk 
    Skipping to 45 seconds in the video you see him attacking with speeds that would impress Bradley and weve seen how fast he is  
    In the actual fight with Ghirahim you may notice that he is completely black.Thats his body armor.The best thing i can compare it to is Greeds Ultimate Shield. 
    Suffice it to say Link still takes him down,though hes not out of it yet 
     
    We finally have Demise. 
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r580S90NECo 
    See that giant sword in his hand.Thats actually Ghirahims true form.Ghirahim is literally a tool in Demises hand. 
     
    This is just a basic rundown of what Link can do.Since Zelda has just celebrated its 25th anniversary you can bet i have a lot more to add if the need arrises. 
     
    Gambit Vs Hei 
     
    Everyone knows Gambit i mean Cmon.Agile card throwing womanizer that he is. 
     
    In this fight I see Gambit having the advantage all the way. 
     
    In ranged attacks he is much better than Hei due to the explosions his cards create,Hei may have his knives but a card in Gambits hand is much deadlier than a knife even when its electrified.

     
    Even if Hei avoid the main attack he will still be caught in the explosion and that is still going to hurt. 
     
    That is assuming he can dodge 
     
    First off you have him being mauled.He throws his card without looking barely missing an old lady and disarming the woman behind him 
    Next you get the classic detonator gig.Needless to say Gambit Knocks the thing to the floor and disarms it with a single throw.  
     
    Finally we have my interchangeable one. 
     
    Blink and Hitomi Vs  Vincent and Kadaj
      
    Once again i know very little about the characters so this is very basic. 
     
    Well start with Hitomi (Who is in fact hotter than Tifa and that chick Nick Z was on about) 
     
    I want to start out with the version of Hitomi im using.That being the Dead Fantasy Version.Oddly enough she is fighting Final Fantasy Characters in this franchise.That gives her a great idea of what these guys may be capable of and how to beat them. 
     
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgfCI7iOuaQ 
     
    The Main things i want to note in this is her Strength and Durability. 
    Strong enough to sends giants block of stone flying at her opponents 2:42 
    As well as break them with punches and kicks.Note she also sends it flying with a punch 3:13  
    I would also place her around 25 tons 
    Lets also note that her durability is high enough that she does no damage to herself when punching and kicking these blocks.Think what would happen to you if you punched a brick wall full force. 
     
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ufy8bHxPnUk 
     
    So now her rival Tifa Lockheart finally shows up. 
     
    And the one we were waiting for 
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxY4keNx6K0 
     
    Tifa VS Hitomi 1v1.YOu may notice as i did that even with all her Marteria and speed Tifa still loses this fight.Being from the same game franchise and using relatively the same powers Hitomi shouldnt have any trouble with either of these guys. 
     
    Blink 
     
    Our first thing of note here is Blinks TP for this battle.Being able to read her opponent like an open book is going to make her a very difficult opponent to face (As if she wasnt already) 
     
    Next we go on to ranged attacks. 
      

    This shows her capability to to redirect energy based attacks.Needless to say with TP this is going to be even easier 
     

    Blink May not be as good as Mr X.But if he can deflect automatic gunfire with his swords i dont see it being a problem for her redirect anything thorn at her the same way she did to King Hyperions eye blasts. 
    This can be used against anyone on the field as well giving anyone who needs it a massive advantage in their fight. 
     
    A bit of speed porting just so you know how fast she can do this 
     Shes in three places at once on the same panel via her teleportation.Thats pretty freaking fast. 
     
    Finally a quick accuracy feat.This is also what will happen if any of Floops swordsman try to deflect her projectiles.Bye Bye Weapon. 
     
    As you may have guessed with her TP perk Blink is going to be my top player even more so than Link (Funny that their names rhyme).Im not sure if theres anyone here who can really stand against her 1v1 
     
    Your move Floopay
    #10 Posted by Floopay (8721 posts) - - Show Bio

    @Sherlock:

    Alright....

    Prep Time:

    I'm going to play nice here. I could easily auto-win this with Cloud, Vincent, and Kadaj using nothing but Cloud's Prep time, but I'll be nice, and I'll do some prep that doesn't put me leagues ahead of your team, because I want a decent fight.

    Cloud will be using his time to re-outfit Kadaj, Vincent, and his own materia.

    will have to clarify, because if I am allowed to use all my materia I might have more that I'll be doing in a week's time.

    Vincent, Cloud, and Kadaj will be outfitted with the following Materia:

    Lightning

    Fire

    Time

    Heal

    Shield

    2 Elixers (each, not added to the two Cloud is already carrying)

    This will take next to zero time at all, as Cloud already has all this materia. His next task will be to acquire a Dao for Ling, and 6 knives for Hei.

    With 3 Days Prep, my team will be doing the following as well:

    Vincent will use his resources to acquire some FF7 armor for the rest of my team. This should take little to no time at all, him, and Cloud have access to so many resources that this will not be an issue.

    With the Armor, which I'm assuming they won't be acquiring anything fancy, because it's only 3 days, they will have 2 materia slots for the rest of my team, which will be dedicated to:

    Haste

    Shield

    Additionally, they'll give an elixer to Greedling and Hei as well.

    Again, some to most of this is covered in Cloud's time already, and I should have the majority of two and a half days worth of prep to take advantage of after this. One of these days will be dedicated to training Hei and Ling to properly use materia. Another will involve Vincent using the time to acquire a hover board.

    Hover Board:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZa2ujs_hCQ

    In case you are questioning Cloud's resources when it comes to materia.....

    Well, while the video is here...

    Jump to 2:55 - You can see haste materia in action, increases the user's speed to near hypersonic levels for very brief periods of time.

    Jump to 3:20 - Yeah....that chest...well that's filled with Materia...lots and lots of materia

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1zcMgEhc7I

    Vincent Valentine

    First thing, your team has no knowledge on him, and when they attempt to block his projectiles they'll be sorely disappointed.

    The Cerberus is his weapon of choice. As you can see below:

    The Cerberus: What makes this weapon so potent is not only that it shoots three projectiles simultaneously, which is going to be very difficult to block, and the fact that he's extremely accurate with it. What truly makes it hard to deal with, is that it's capable of puncturing through entire airships with a single shot.

    Jump to 6:00 - This thing trashes a SHINRA weapon aircraft.

    Also, notice how he dodges that rocket after it's been fired and tanks the explosion like a champ.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hAj58yOTSg

    Vincent's Feats:

    Jump to 2:00-2:15 - Vincent dodges aircraft fire and rockets from up close.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfa5KWEKABI

    More on Vincent Valentine Later...

    Cloud Strife

    Alright, this is Cloud vs. Kadaj, Loz,

    Cloud is extremely fast here, capable of holding his own against multiple opponents who use haste materia like a meth addict spamming the morphine button while in the hospital...

    Something to be noted, Cloud is suffering from an extremely debilitating virus at this point in the game, and has zero materia.

    Notable scenes to watch out for:

    0:30 - Blade Beam, one of Cloud's lesser limits

    1:15 - That's Kadaj with his weapon showing up. Notice how blindingly fast he is, and is more than capable of dodging Vincent's attacks.

    1:20 - Vincent Valentine shows up. Notice how his cloak regenerates behind him, and makes him impossible to really target. The thing serves as more of a distraction than anything...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87tDO1_nofE

    Bahamut SIN part 1:

    Watch the whole thing, but I'll point out things to watch out for:

    2:40 - The Shadow Creepers make an appearance. They can handle Tifa (though she clearly is better than them), but they also turn Black Mist and transport themselves and become intangible. These are the things Kadaj can summon, and the Black Mist is what he is capable of. But they do tank several blows form Tifa...

    3:00- Cloud shows up, notice his incredible accuracy with his weapon when throwing it, and how well he drives that motorcycle (I will provide many more motorcycle feats to come, don't worry about that),

    3:20 - Cloud slices through metal and concrete debris with little to no difficulty with his weapon.

    4:30 - Shadow Creepers again. Can pick up a human being and throw them a couple meters in the air, as well as throw a person hard enough to put a dent in a metal pole and shift it's position. Also tanks a fire hydrant cap being shot into it, as well as the blast of water to come. That may not sound impressive, but that's a highly pressurized system.

    Notice how much punishment this thing takes without ever really being damaged, also note how it's blasts are able to destroy entire steel constructs, and affect entire city blocks.

    Alright, now how does this thing do when Cloud shows up?

    Watch the whole thing, but:

    Notable Scenes -

    0:25 - Uses Cross Slash, knocks this thing to the curb with his limits stun effect

    2:20 - Cloud flies THROUGH it's breath attack, and the heat does NOTHING to him, so he has some pretty massive heat resistance.

    3:00 - Climhazzard. I wasn't kidding when I said that attack has near limitless cutting power. Cloud's attacks earlier, which have gone through steel and concrete effortlessly, and Vincent's bullets which have gone through entire airships, had little effect on this thing. Yet Climhazzard cuts through it like butter.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=HYmlJoCk7uU&feature=endscreen

    Motorcycle Fight Scene

    To be noted, Cloud is still effected by Geostigma at this point, which has been shown to cause great pain, and is life threatening.

    The whole thing is good, and this is pretty much what I mean by expert Motorcyclist. I mean, he's fast, and he's strong, and again, this is him in his weakened state...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rc9iwNLFpvE

    Cloud's Memory is mostly replicated off of Zack Fair's, Proven here:

    In the game the information is provided over the course of a bunch of cutscenes and throughout FF7, and then elaborated on in Crisis Core. It's easier for me to point out if I just take stuff out of one of the novellas released before Advent Children. I bolded the parts that talk about his memory.

    The Maiden who Travels the Planet

    Chapter 5

    Cloud was falling into the Lifestream. He wasn’t falling into it as the dead or as a soul. He was falling into the Sea of Mako alive, in his living body. He was going to pass out.

    In the Northern Crater, he found out that his memories were false. He was just a doll who the mad scientist Hojo had transplanted Jenova cells into. A being made to merge with Sephiroth for his resurrection. But as a failure, he was an inferior clone that wasn't even given a number.

    He was thrown out like trash in Midgar. Then he met Tifa. He met his "real" childhood friend, Tifa Lockhart. That time, with Jenova's power to duplicate memories, the memories that Tifa had of Cloud was instantly transferred to him. The missing parts were then filled with his own memories of being in Soldier to complete it all. That was how the patched up personality of Cloud Strife, based on the young man that existed in Tifa's conscious, was born. While that "Cloud" held many contradictions about himself, he built up a fictitious character so that he wouldn't be doubtful of himself. That character was himself.

    However, the disguise was going to be stripped away.

    It started to fail a long time ago. After coming into contact with many Sephiroth clones, the resonance inside Cloud's conscious uncovered many suspicions. Before long after Aerith's death, the dam he had built holding back his suspicions started to overflow. Using the anger he had towards Sephiroth and the goals he had in mind he somehow managed to suppress it but, that only lasted until he met the original Sephiroth.

    In the Northern Crater before Sephiroth who had Jenova at his core, Cloud's brittle character fell apart. Right after that, even his conscious came under his control as Cloud himself handed over the key to summoning Meteor, the Black Materia.

    Cooperating with the one enemy he hated and being made to turn against his own goal of stopping Meteor, Cloud's character completely collapsed. His false mosaic ego shattered into pieces and in his empty conscious, only the despair of how he was no one but a failed Sephiroth clone remained.

    And so...

    Now no longer of use, Cloud crossed into the Planet through the Northern Crater, - abandoned into the Lifestream.

    With his ego lost, what was going to happen if the highly concentrated Mako, containing the aggregated memories of the Planet, entered his system?

    He was equal to a dried up sponge soaking up a liquid. His blank conscious and vast nonsensical memories were all going to be buried away. This state in which someone was expected to be extremely intoxicated was commonly refered to as "Mako poisoning."

    With his mind being infringed beyond the point of recovery, Cloud floated within the Lifestream. Before long, his living body that shouldn't be in the Lifestream, was ejected through one of the natural Mako energy geysers into the nearby coasts of Mideel. With his character lost, he was now a crippled person in confusion.

    * * *

    Aerith knew one of the reasons why there was a place that the Lifestream couldn't approach. That place had a barrier that Sephiroth setup. The disaster that would fall from the skies, Jenova, brought with it a meteor that created an enormous scar on the Planet due to its impact. Now that place, where lots of energy was gathering to heal the scar, had become a cradle for Sephiroth's resurrection. The flows of life all around were drawn into the unnatural swirl, preventing a discarnate entity like Aerith from approaching it.

    Aerith was eager to talk to Cloud as his living body flowed out of the swirl. She had been trying to while his body was being carried to Mideel. But with his mind shattered and filled with despair, Cloud couldn't hear Aerith's voice. No matter how much she cried out, her voice wouldn't reach Cloud just like the time when they were separated in the Forgotten City.

    Helplessly watching Cloud's body return to the surface, Aerith stood in the sea of Mako in dismay.

    * * *

    "How can I save Cloud? How can I stop Meteor? I didn't think that Holy would be held back. At this rate, the Planet's going to end up the way Sephiroth wants it... What can I do? Tell me, Cloud..."

    Aerith cried as she thought about the shattered Cloud that even her prayers wouldn't reach. His wrecked character could no longer be fixed. If he wasn't Cloud in the first place then, who was he? Knowing him only as a former member of Soldier, there was no way she could guess. She embraced the feeling of helplessness that she couldn't put into words.

    "Cloud... I miss you. I miss the real you..."

    Her whispers and thoughts became expanded into waves and spread out in the Mako.

    Her memories of being with Cloud came to mind again. Her impression was that even though he wasn't very social, there was some cheerfulness about him.

    "I felt something odd about him but, was everything really just made up and part of his false character? Cloud wasn't real at all? ...No, that can't be true. There were things that only Cloud could think of. Things that he done because he was Cloud. He was never an empty vessel to begin with!"

    But she couldn't figure out the truth. Her thoughts just went in circles. Aerith delved into her memories again. Memories that showed Cloud's individuality. The way he walked. She remembered all his actions one by one...

    Most of those thoughts merged into the Sea of Mako and awakened a character. The character recognized the image she recalled and "he" woke up.

    "Aerith... Is that you?"

    At first, Aerith couldn't remember whose voice it was because it was so sudden. Panicking, she turned round and saw a nostalgic face she hadn't seen for five years. He was her light taste of first love. He was also now a very dear friend who she hadn't seen ever since she heard nothing from him. He had the same character she saw in Cloud. Zack who had blue eyes that proofed he was in Soldier appeared before her. He had an image inferior to Aerith's solid image.

    "Zack! Does that mean you're dead too?"

    Although usually Aerith wasn't the one to ask obvious questions, it was the first thought that came to mind and she spoke out as if it was a reflex. Besides that, it was odd that such a seasoned and highly skilled Soldier would die. Even though she didn't know his whereabouts, she was sure that he was safe and living peacefully somewhere... She blamed herself for blindly believing in such a thing. This cruel reality was a strong shock for her.

    ""You too?"... Does that mean you're dead too, Aerith? Well, I was going to say the same thing anyway and then... How should I put this... Give my condolences?"

    "You haven't changed one bit."

    No matter what happened, Zack never lost his cheerfulness. As if saved by his cheerful personality, Aerith smiled weakly. Even though she knew that he was a member of Shinra's Soldier, it was that part of him that was charming to her.

    "Lots of things happened. All terrible things. It all started when I was dispatched on a mission to the rural Nibelheim."

    "Nibelheim?"

    "Yes, do you know about it? That time, I was together with a very famous Soldier that was known as a hero. He suddenly went mad..."

    "You mean Sephiroth, don't you?"

    Aerith swallowed her breathe. She believed that there was a meaning to why Zack appeared. She had a feeling it was linked to something.

    "That bastard really is famous. Or was it because you read about the huge Nibelheim massacre in the news?"

    "You were there at the time, Zack? Then what about Cloud...?"

    "Woah woah, hold it there! How do you know about Cloud too? And is he safe?!"

    "You know Cloud too. There really is a Cloud, isn't there?"

    The two of them quickly exchanged what they knew. And then Aerith knew. She knew that Cloud wasn't just a cloned doll made for Sephiroth. She also knew why she saw Zack in him now.

    Zack also knew. He knew the current state his close friend was in now. The friend who got involved together with him in the incident as they got hunted down by the Shinra. He also knew that Sephiroth was going to be resurrected and become a threat not just to Nibelheim but to everything on the Planet.

    "Zack... What should I do so that Cloud will know about the truth about himself? Can you tell him that he's real?"

    "It's impossible for us to do it. The only one who can do it is that girl that was there with us in Nibelheim, Tifa. If the memories she has could draw out the memories in Cloud then maybe..."

    "That's going to be hard. But I won't give up. I'm sure there's a chance."

    Aerith's face brightened now that there was hope. "When that's done, Cloud and the others will be able to do something about Sephiroth. They'll be able to remove the obstacle that's suppressing Holy.

    Before long, the chance came.

    * * *

    Under pressure with the Meteor drawing near, the Planet released its massive biological destructive Weapons and the flow of the Lifestream was disrupted by their activities. The amount of energy that surged up onto the surface was never seen before. Gushing out into Mideel, Cloud who was peacefully resting there with Tifa nursing him by his side, both of them get swallowed up into the Lifestream.

    Both of them were engulfed by Mako as they fell into the Planet. For Cloud, it was the second time but for Tifa, it was her first experience.

    Aerith risked everything she had in this golden opportunity.

    She desperately tried to talk to Tifa who was about to get intoxicated by the highly concentrated Mako. Guiding her conscious, Aerith took her into Cloud's closed heart.

    In truth, Aerith really wanted to do it herself. But she couldn't carry out the task. That's why she entrusted Tifa with it. She entrusted Tifa with all the feelings she had for Cloud in her heart. She entrusted them to the one that was going to "live" together with Cloud...

    Link may have taken an army, and that is impressive and I don't want to cut that feat down...however:

    Zack Fair was less enhanced than Cloud. Cloud was enhanced by the Jenova cells put into his body, whereas Zack's body, due to the enhancements already given to him, rejected the Jenova cells. Over and above this, Cloud replicated most of Zack's memory, and his training. Coupled with the fact that Cloud is proven to be superior to Zack in every way, it makes him a pretty potent enemy.

    Zack Fair vs. an Army

    The Cannon ending is Zack kills everyone of these Soldiers....that's guns, grenades, rocket launchers, snipers, swordsman (enhanced to the same levels as him mind you), etc. All of this done by his superior skill.

    Saddest video game ending ever :(

    Feel free to skip around...or watch the whole thing if you'd like, can't promise you won't cry though :P

    Note: Notice how even after the soldiers leave, he's still alive....even with a bullet hole through his chest, and in his face...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zBfzJSyo6c

    Kadaj

    Origins

    Kadaj was created as a seed to Sephiroth. That is, he is the base of what will soon to be the resurrection of Sephiroth (I'll get to that sometime..)

    Lifestream Black 3

    Despite mankind's troubles, life on the planet had returned to normal. The man became aware of the increase in spirits— they could be called the darkness of the heart— melding with the Lifestream. He cherished that lingering darkness. Even more so when he considered that the stigma he had left on the surface was what created it. He thought that he could possibly enjoy himself with that. Filling the Lifestream with this darkness.

    The man hid himself within the life on the planet and traveled around the world, branding even more people with his stigma. On the surface there were many people who no longer had their normal lives, and at the man's temptation the dark parts of their hearts grew even larger.

    Soon the man thought to himself; I want Cloud to know this is my doing. I want the humans to know this is my doing. For that he needed a body. There were things he wanted to say in his own voice. Things he wanted to shatter by his own hand.

    He had decided he would use his Mother's power. With a fragment of Mother's body, I too can get a body again, the man thought. And so firstly, he tried to manifest on the surface as just a spirit, but his attempt failed. He had already returned the memories of his own appearance to the planet, and so he was not able to produce an image of himself. So the man found memories of a suitable appearance from the Lifestream, and with that form produced an image. It was the form of a boy. Soon the man remembered that being on the surface was incomparably more limited than the freedom of being a spirit. He created two more agents to do his work. These three were separate entities, and at the same time he himself. These three, created by the strength of the man's will and detached from the system of the planet, were both at once a part of reality and monsters out of fantasy.

    The man thought of the future. As my servants are looking for Mother, if they come across someone who knows me, then from that spirit I can learn of who I once was. And with Mother's further assistance, I can become fully real. Even if there's something lacking, it doesn't matter. Cloud will make me complete.

    That will be the beginning, the man thought.

    Note:

    This is literally copied and pasted from a previous debate I had. So some of the information is irrelevant

    Video 1:

    http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x20k2t_final-fantasy-7-advent-children-mca_shortfilms

    Notable Scenes:

    10:00-12:30 - Cloud Fighting on Fenrir against 2 Super Soldiers. Also note these are the Shadow Creeps which Kadaj can summon

    Video 2

    http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x20kde_final-fantasy-7-advent-children-mca_shortfilms

    4:30-4:50: First application of Haste

    15:00 - 19:00 - Keep in mind, Cloud in this scene is affected by Geostigma, a virus that causes him severe pain and is wreaking havoc on his body/mind.

    Cloud tanks shots from Loz, which are capable of collapsing trees in a mystical forest. Also dodges gunfire in this scenario using the 2nd smallest blade in his sword.

    Cloud shows off his limit break (every so often, as Cloud battles he gets to use these limit breaks. The longer the fight, the more powerful they become). This particular one is called Blade Beam, he uses it to destroy that wave of Earth Loz blows in his direction.

    Cloud is deflecting bullets at near point blank range with his swords. No small feat of reflex. Additionally, he is dodging attacks from characters while they are using haste materia. He also fights Yazoo and Loz simultaneously, both moving at super human speeds.

    Ends with Kadaj vs. Cloud briefly. At this point, Cloud is too weakened to really handle Kadaj as you can see.

    This is where Vincent Valentine shows up and saves him. Notice how his cloak pretty much hides his entire person, and how he rallies off a bunch of shots (all of which Kadaj is capable of dodging, something else to take note of).

    Another thing to pay attention to is Vincent's ridiculous speed, and mobility. It's almost impossible to keep track of him with that cloak, and they have to slow down the scene to show him moving.

    http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x20njc_final-fantasy-7-advent-children-mca_shortfilms

    Video 3

    http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x20njc_final-fantasy-7-advent-children-mca_shortfilms

    4:00-4:30 - Again, Kadaj summoning swarms of Shadow Creeps. Notice how they are throwing human beings around like they are nothing. Also they aren't too bad for speed either. They may not be able to harm your team, but they are more than capable of acting as canon fodder, and giving your team some unwanted chaos around the battle field.

    11:10-11:30 - Bahamut SIN, his blast takes out center of the city in a single blast. Note this for later

    12:00 - 13:00

    Kadaj is toying with Reno here for awhile. Then around 12:30 he kicks him like 30 meters or more.

    Video 4

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8tps5cmEsQ

    2:00-End -

    Vincent Valentine, shows off his agility here a little bit. Remember, Vincent's shots can go through airships like a bullet going through paper (I'll show this fact later). Also, none of these attacks are having any affect on Bahamut SIN.

    Cloud flies through a blast from Bahamut SIN without taking any damage, something to take note of.

    Cloud uses two limit breaks in a row here. Start off with Climhazzard and then finishes with Cross Slash. Bahamut took no damage from anything, including Cloud's original attacks which shred through steel efffortlessly (I'll prove this later on), and suddenly this attack tears through it's back and then knocks it unconscious with another blow.

    Video 5

    http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x20nnp_final-fantasy-7-advent-children-mca_shortfilms

    2:20 - 3:00 - Fire Materia blows apart the top floor of that building

    4:10-6:40 - Motorcycle fight scene!

    Notice Cloud's ability to maneuver that motorcycle and deflect bullets. This has to say something to his reaction time and situational awareness.

    Cloud is also fending off assaults from Loz (if you pay attention you can see blue streaks across the screen from when he uses haste), while simultaneously deflecting bullets from Yazoo, and in order to do these things he spinning his bike around like a merry-go-round .

    In a split second Cloud leaps off his bike, cuts the motorcycle Loz throws at him in half, then turns back around, deflects an oncoming assault for Loz, tanks a few hits, and then continues to deflect bullets and defend himself against Loz, and sometime throughout that portion of time he detaches a second blade from his Fushion sword, and begins blocking both Yazoo and Loz at the same time. Then he attacks both of them, destroys Loz's arm piece, and lands back on top of his motorcycle and speeds away from them. Notice how most of this portion of this scene is done in slow motion, meaning they were moving much faster than what is shown.

    7:30-8:00 - Motorcycle Fight Scene continued!

    Kadaj stops a blow from Cloud, tanking the weight of Cloud's motorcycle combined with the force of his blow as well.

    9:30-10:20 - Kadaj vs. Cloud! Part 1

    Kadaj uses Lightning Materia to open the fight, creates a pretty big boom. Cloud is capable of dodging it, even though it is moving at speeds which look to be faster than a bullet.

    Aerith cures Cloud's Geostigma (Aerith is the most powerful character in FF7, it's a long story).

    11:30-14:30 - Kadaj vs. Cloud! Part 2

    Kadaj opens with Lightning again. Notice the scene slows down to show how fast those things are supposed to be traveling, and Cloud is still a blur when he dodges them. Also, he fires more than 1 bolt, unlike he did originally.

    Notice how fast Kadaj is. Clearly he outclasses Cloud in speed (probably because of Cloud's big weapon), nonetheless though, Cloud is more than adept at dodging and parrying his blows.

    Kadaj manages to even disarm Cloud at one point, which is pretty impressive. Another thing to note is that Kadaj is only using one arm, because his other arm is occupied holding his mother's head in a box (it's a long story). However, even without the box I have serious doubts he could keep up with Cloud for long. As you can see Kadaj is fighting with everything he's got and pretty much making a last stand. While Cloud is having little problem keeping up, and spends most of the fight just waiting for the right time to finish him off.

    In a single attack, Cloud seems to move his sword and expell Kadaj away with a gust of wind....that's Finishing Touch.

    Notice how you see no sign of Cloud being there, and then hear a gust of wind and he's there, in the scene where Kadaj is dangling from the ledge.

    I will educate you further later, this is just part one of my overall debate.

    Thanks for reading,

    Floopay

    #11 Posted by Esquire (3833 posts) - - Show Bio

    @Floopay: I'm thinking no to materia, mostly because Sherlock doesn't have much in the way of prep characters, and we want to keep this fair. Does that seem okay?

    #12 Posted by Floopay (8721 posts) - - Show Bio

    @Esquire said:

    @Floopay: I'm thinking no to materia, mostly because Sherlock doesn't have much in the way of prep characters, and we want to keep this fair. Does that seem okay?

    That's fine, but I'm going to keep the materia listed for the Final Fantasy 7 characters. That is, Lightning and Fire for Kadaj, and Lightning, Fire, Haste for Cloud. Maybe add some to Vincent with Prep, but I'll leave Hei and Greed out.

    As Materia is a key piece of equipment for FF7, as much as Link's gear is a key piece of equipment in his universe. I'll adjust prep later.

    Thanks for reading,

    Floopay

    #13 Posted by Esquire (3833 posts) - - Show Bio

    @Floopay: Sorry, I wasn't clear. Materia in the gear is fine, but I don't think gathering additional materia during prep would make for a very fair fight.

    #14 Posted by Floopay (8721 posts) - - Show Bio

    @Esquire said:

    @Floopay: Sorry, I wasn't clear. Materia in the gear is fine, but I don't think gathering additional materia during prep would make for a very fair fight.

    Alright, I'll work it out of my prep and find something else.

    Thanks for reading,

    Floopay

    #15 Posted by Esquire (3833 posts) - - Show Bio

    @Floopay

    Does that seem like a reasonable solution? I'm no Final Fantasy expert, so if you think it would be more fair to simply limit materia, we could do that somehow. I just want an even debate.

    #16 Posted by Floopay (8721 posts) - - Show Bio

    @Esquire said:

    @Floopay

    Does that seem like a reasonable solution? I'm no Final Fantasy expert, so if you think it would be more fair to simply limit materia, we could do that somehow. I just want an even debate.

    That's fine. I did limit my materia choice to make things fair though. If I wanted unfair I would have chosen restorative materia, barrier, summon materia, support materia, or independent materia :P

    Thanks for reading,

    Floopay

    #17 Posted by Sherlock (7250 posts) - - Show Bio
     @Esquire Do as you will in terms of prep.TBH i dont care what Floop does.I was pretty sure he was going to do something similar to this.Even after reading through it im still pretty sure im going to win

    @Floopay said:

    @Sherlock:

    Alright....

    Prep Time:

    I'm going to play nice here. I could easily auto-win this with Cloud, Vincent, and Kadaj using nothing but Cloud's Prep time, but I'll be nice, and I'll do some prep that doesn't put me leagues ahead of your team, because I want a decent fight.


    OK just as a quickie dont act as though you are doing me a favor.No offense.I had no idea about prep time,as it was and needless to say my team isnt really built for it. 
    If you had gone through and prepped up to the point where you were unbeatable (Especially when i wasnt even told we had prep) i would have told you to go fvck yourself and left 
    Another thing of note is your prep breaks your own rules.You made tier limits for this tourney and by adding all of that you up the tier for two at  least of your characters. 
    But as i said to Esquire i dont mind much if you have it since i still think im going to win anyway. 
     
    As for the rest its pretty much just feats and writing.(FTR it took me 3 hours to get through all that i would tend to think most people are just going to skip it entirely)I only have a few things to address. 
    #1 Giving Greeling and Hei 1 day to master their new powers is very foolish.With extra powers that they dont know how to use you will have 2 possible scenarios 
    1:They dont use the new powers and stick to what they know and what they are good at. (This means they dont change at all)
    2: They try to use the powers that they are new to and don't really understand and use them badly and thereby put up even less a fight than usual 
     
    Next is this point 

    Vincent Valentine

    First thing, your team has no knowledge on him, and when they attempt to block his projectiles they'll be sorely disappointed.

    The Cerberus is his weapon of choice. As you can see below:


    I never said anything about blocking his shots.I did mention Blink teleporting them and i dont see why that wouldnt work. 
    Also If Link tried he would have no problem since his shield is indestructible as is his sword. 
     
    The only other thing i want to throw out is Zack VS the army.I saw nothing to make me believe that he took all of them down.As a matter of fact in the gameplay he only fought a few dozen if that..Also after the long spoiler bit im still not getting how Zach can be used to gauge Cloud. 
     
    Finally i did some research on the Jenova Cells that Cloud uses for his powers.Am i correct in getting that his body is filled with cells from some evil dude?If that is in fact the case then Link has a huge advantage against him. 
    The Master Sword AKA the Blade of Evils Bane,is imbued with the power to vanquish evil.Since Clouds cells are filled with evil Link sword is going to be a great weapon to take him down. 
     
    Im not going to bother with the rest until you get a proper strategy up and reply to all my points.
    #18 Posted by Floopay (8721 posts) - - Show Bio

    @Sherlock:

    Clarification on points:

    Why don't we just eliminate prep, as it seems to cause nothing but confusion anyway. I had no idea about prep time either and it doesn't matter to me, I just saw prep and decided to use it. I was just as unaware of prep as you, what I was saying is that I wasn't going to get ridiculous with it and pull some ridiculous auto-win maneuver. There are some horrifying Final Fantasy materias that could make this stupid and not fun to debate, and I want a good debate, I don't want to win with prep I didn't even know I'd have. I'd rather lose fairly than win by over exploiting the rules.

    Yes, Cloud has Jenova cells in his body. But he is a pure soul and a good guy, through and through. Unless you're telling me that the Master Sword will do extra damage at Cloud because the cells in his body were enhanced by an alien who happened to be evil, even though Cloud is a pure soul and really hasn't done much (if anything) that would be considered "evil" throughout his lifetime, I think that argument is sort of lackluster to be completely honest.

    I am well familiar with Link, at least the Super Nintendo Link, Ocarina of Time Link, and Twilight Princess Link. I know his weapons are not going to be phased by Cerberus, I was just pointing out your other 4 characters have no means of blocking shots from it, and their only method of evading attacks from it are to dodge.

    As for the Zack feat. If you read the full post you would know my point was that Cloud was enhanced beyond the levels of your normal SOLDIER member. Zack was enhanced to those points, and through superior skill, and training (plus I think the Buster Sword helps more than a bit) he was able to take down an entire army, and the canon ending is he takes out all of them but the last 3, however, from a gameplay perspective, it sends an unlimited amount of soldiers at you until you are defeated.

    The second point to be made, was from the novellas that occurred between FF7 and FF7: Advent Children, where it is stated that Cloud's memory of being in SOLDIER is not his own, because he was never a member of SOLDIER. His memory of being in SOLDIER, and his training is based off the Jenova cells in his body replicating Zack's training and memory to fill in the gaps in Cloud's memory. It stands to reason that if Zack were able to do such a thing with his skill and power set, somebody with the literally the exact same skill set, but a superior power set could, at the very least, replicate that feat

    .

    Strategy:

    I will not be fighting your team 1 vs. 1, I will be fighting your team 5 vs. 5.

    Alright, Cloud and Kadaj's job will be to scout ahead, but not stay too far ahead of the group. They have superior mobility compared to your group (except for maybe Blink) because of their motorcycles. Once your team is spotted, they will head back to my group and prepare for the assault.

    Vincent will be scouting from above, leaping to the top of buildings with Hei and scouting as well from above. There is a good chance they would see Blink, but at the same time Blink would undoubtedly teleport out and relay my location long before I could get a chance to attack or whatever, and her teleporting doesn't exactly give me your team's location. But again, it's not like my team isn't going to be prepped or mindful of the idea of a surprise attack, obviously both our teams know they are going into battle.

    However, being only 1 mile away, I honestly don't think it'll take long to locate, and for my team to rally together at a certain location.

    Kadaj will not fight on his motorcycle, but will stay on it until your team shows up. My team will keep in group though, and will advance towards the center of the city, Cloud and Kadaj up front, Hei, Vincent, and Ling in the back.

    Hei and Vincent will be sticking to the shadows and keeping out of sight, possibly use the high ground to their advantage. This shouldn't be that difficult as they are both heavily trained in stealth. However, I think the rest of my team, as well as most of your team from the looks of it, will be going with a more direct approach against each other

    The Encounter:

    Cloud, Kadaj, and Greed

    Alright, Blink and Gambit might be a stealthers but I don't think Wrath, Link, or Hitomi are, so it's probably going to open up with Cloud, Kadaj, and Greed Ling vs. Wrath, Link, and HItomi, go ahead and let me know when I'm wrong here.

    Cloud and Kadaj will open up with Fire attacks toward Hitomi and Wrath. Why these two? Well, they don't have a shield, and are the least likely to survive. Unfortunately, both of them do have durability, and I think this wouldn't do much more than maybe daze them for half a second and kick up a lot of dust. That's fine though.

    At the same time Ling will throw out a Flash Grenade. The extra dust and smoke kicked up by the fire materia should help shield my team against the flash of the grenade, at least at a distance, whereas your team will be a bit closer, and the flash should affect them more. Greed is well aware of Wrath and his abilities, so before you say Wrath cuts the fuse, Greed will likely be going for a low shot and aim for it to roll at the end, to avoid that possibility.

    All of this will only buy my team a few seconds, Link's shield will absorb the excess fire from the blast, but that's fine, the concussive shockwave is what I'm more interested in using. I don't know how you plan on using that and I guess you'll let me know. Wrath and Hitomi will have spots in their eyes for a second or two, but they are both extremely well trained fighters and have probably dealt with this sort of thing before.

    Kadaj will summon three Shadow Creeps. This gives me a numbers advantage in melee combat. They probably won't be able to harm your team, because your team is fast and strong enough to overpower them and block them. However, they are powerful enough that your team can't afford to really ignore them.

    They will be sent to circle and overpower your team. Hitomi will have a hard time with them, their ability to turn mist, and their inherent resistance to Blunt force trauma will be hard to deal with. Wrath will probably have a hard time the first few strikes he takes at one, but once he sees what they can do, he undoubtedly will find a way to get rid of them. Link should be able to handle them pretty easily with his sword.

    However, it's not like these three things are charging alone.

    Greed will attempt to charge Hitomi, that'll be his target. He is armed, but has great unarmed skill, and his armor will prove most useful against blunt force attacks like hers.

    Kadaj has speed to match Wrath's, but I believe he has superior agility, acrobatics, and his combat reflexes surpass Greed's (someone who was doing a good job dodging Wrath, and block him) by quite a bit, so he should be able to dodge Wrath pretty handily. Over and above this, he can go black mist to avoid damage, and he's pretty good at disarming. Over and above this his weapon is superior in quality, and he has superior strength, he could very well destroy Wrath's weapons (not 100%, but over the course of the battle, I think he'll break a couple).

    Cloud will charge Link two weapon style. With his haste materia, this gives him a huge speed advantage in short bursts, plus his striking power vastly surpasses anything Link has come across. I don't think he'll be one shotting Link, but these two are going to be in for quite a battle.

    Add to this my Shadow Creeps, and I have a huge numbers advantage.

    Shadow Creep Reminder

    Video 1:

    http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x20k2t_final-fantasy-7-advent-children-mca_shortfilms

    Notable Scenes:

    10:00-12:30 - Cloud Fighting on Fenrir against 2 Super Soldiers. Also note these are the Shadow Creeps which Kadaj can summon

    Video 3

    http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x20njc_final-fantasy-7-advent-children-mca_shortfilms

    4:00-4:30 - Again, Kadaj summoning swarms of Shadow Creeps. Notice how they are throwing human beings around like they are nothing. Also they aren't too bad for speed either. They may not be able to harm your team, but they are more than capable of acting as canon fodder, and giving your team some unwanted chaos around the battle field.

    11:10-11:30 - Bahamut SIN, his blast takes out center of the city in a single blast. Note this for later

    12:00 - 13:00

    Kadaj is toying with Reno here for awhile. Then around 12:30 he kicks him like 30 meters or more.

    The remainders

    I don't know when Gambit and Blink are showing up. If they show up with the rest of your team, they will be caught in the blast and the opening attack (though unlikely Blink will, because she will probably teleport out of the way). Again, I'm not underestimating your team, I'm not thinking this will score a KO or kill, but it'll buy me time.

    Once the Shadow Creeps are out, Vincent will make his first appearance. He will open full fire against Hitomi, Link, and Wrath. Honestly, Wrath can't really block these bullets, and Hitomi can only dodge as well. Given the fact that they are also pre-occupied looking ahead at my team (though they should know I have 5 memebers, so I admit, they will be aware that there are 2 members unaccounted for) I should be able to score a KO or a Kill here.

    Numbers are huge, people often underestimate them, but they can win or lose a battle more often than not, and with 5 powerhouses against 4, this is a battle where the tides have changed dramatically.

    Here are some Hei feats (I know you're aware of him, but not everybody is so I'm posting them for everyone to see)

    Video 1: Hei vs. the Frenchmen - Shows off that his Cloak provides some good protection in his hands. Also shows that he can transfer his attack across any conductive medium, including water and metal

    Video 2: Hei vs. Wei - Hei goes up against someone who can disintegrate almost any material that comes into contact with his blood. Really shows off his mobility and his combat style, and evasiveness.

    Video 3: Hei vs. Mina - Hei's electrical attack can disrupt energy weapons used by his opponents, also shows off his skill again. Her weapon can cut through entire trees, and she's only a peak human, so it's all in the way her weapon is empowered. However, blocking it with his knife is enough to shatter the weapon and leave his knife unharmed.

    Video 4: Hei vs. 3 Contractors - This really shows off his abilities to locate his opponents. As you can see, one of them was completely invisible, and Hei was all over the battlefield. However, this still wasn't enough to catch him off guard, he grabs that invisible guy with no issue. This should be very useful in locating Blink and Gambit and stopping them from getting the upper hand.

    Hei will make an appearance and attempt to take either Hitomi or Wrath, whichever hasn't bought it from Vincent's brief onslaught. He should be able to get a surprise attack in here, and turn this into 3 vs. 5.

    Thanks for reading,

    Floopay

    #19 Posted by Sherlock (7250 posts) - - Show Bio
    @Floopay said: If you want to drop it completely i wont complain.I still see myself winning either way but i am known for overconfidence at times.My primary reason is the perks we chose.I tend to think my pick was better.So again i dont see any problem with your prep but if you really want to drop it i wont stop you


    The Encounter:

    Cloud, Kadaj, and Greed


    So for starters i said nothing about stealth if you recall i said my team ports in at the same time.All of them will be there at once. 
     
    Fire materia
    Link also has good speed here and a shield that can reflect energy attacks.There really is no reason why he cant use that to send the blast back at you.Lets also add to that that Blink will have her TP on one of them that being Greeling,Cloud,or Kadaj.Im not sure who you will be using for the Materia blast but id assume both Cloud and Kadaj at once.If she has either of these two via TP then she can also get in front of the blast and hit them with their own attack.Hitomi can also pull up the ground to absorb the blast for them.Something she has been shown to do already 
      SPOILER WARNING: Click here to reveal hidden content. 
    Thats three different scenarios there two of which will be very bad for your team and one leaving my team relatively unscathed.No matter how you cut it up my team should over all be pretty ok after that blast. 
     
     Flash Bomb
    .Link has his shield for that so it wont be a problem for him.Blink can again if she isnt on either Cloud or Kadaj would by default be on Greed.If that is the case the flash bang goes back to your team and stuns them instead.Gambit who as iv shown has incredible accuracy with his cards.If it ends by rolling (And thereby not moving very fast) he can easily cut the fuse himself or just simply blow the grenade up in a real explosion. 
    FInally you have Bradley.You may have forgotten this but i haven't. 
      SPOILER WARNING: Click here to reveal hidden content.
    Obviously a flash bomb will have no effect on him  
     
    Shadow Creeps 
     
    Hitmoi is far stronger than anyone who has ever faced these guys.They may have blunt force resistance but have nothing to prove they can take a 25 ton hit.Personally i think she will one shot them. 
    Bradley has his eye which as he clearly states to the original Greed 
     
      SPOILER WARNING: Click here to reveal hidden content.
    He shouldnt have any problem either. 
     
    Cloud Greed and Kadaj Vs Hitomi Link and Bradley 
     
    Hitmoi vs Greed may seem to you to be a good plan.In a way it is.Then again Greed has never been tested against anyone that strong.Even if she cant get through his shield the internal damage will be heavy.Add to that that every hit he takes will send him flying. 
     
    Kadaj Vs Bradley.Kadaj may have the speed to match Bradley but his ultimate advantage is his sight.That Ultimate Eye is insane.There is very little Kadaj can really do that Bradley wont see coming.Kadaj may also have better reflexes than Greeling but the fact remains that Greeling is dominated by Bradley in every encounter.Heck he was still being beaten around when he had help. 
      SPOILER WARNING: Click here to reveal hidden content.
    Im not overly concerned about broken sword since Bradley has been shown to draw his others in no time at all.Not to mention he has fought with just a sword hilt before and very effectively i might add. 
     
    Cloud Vs Link. 
    This is an opening question.Cloud does in fact have some evil alien guys cells running through his body correct?Im not talking is Cloud and evil person i just want to know about his cells.If they are overrun with this guys makeup then yes the Master Sword will be more effective against him than normal.  
    On to the actual fight.I first of all want to say Link is no stranger to fast opponents. 

      SPOILER WARNING: Click here to reveal hidden content. 
     So yes Cloud will be faster than Link is but as iv shown Link has beaten opponents who are faster than him and that was without his own speed boost. 
    Cloud is not the strongest opponent Link has ever faced.Not by far. 
      SPOILER WARNING: Click here to reveal hidden content.
    Now for my own argument.Ill give you Clouds speed but Link is stronger than he is by a long shot.Cloud has never come across someone that strong as far as i know.Next you have his fighting style.Sword and Shield.Easily the best swordfighting style ever invented.It easily tops dual wielding which has no means really for defending your self.Then add to that his durability which is also far above Clouds.Finally you have his Sword skill.He is a master at his chosen craft as he has proven time and again.Cloud really has no range attack here that cant be dealt with and sent back to him via mirror shield (And Cloud knows nothing about Link so hell,why wouldnt he use them).  
     
    As a sum up. 
    Cloud is going to be hard put to it to tag Link based on his reflexes and fighting style and anything that he does get in will be dealt with via magic armor. 
    Link has a superior fighting style to Cloud (Dont say that there is no best sword fighting style.Yes there is.The one that is made for every situation and that is Sword and Shield) 
    Links physical strength is going to make every swing with that sword even deadlier to the point where he may be able to one shot him if he tags him in the right place 
    FInally you have the Master Sword which i still think will be especially deadly to Cloud due to his cells.  
     
    Also just as a side note Link beat Cloud for the final spot in Super Smash Brothers Brawl.Just saying 
     
    This leaves Blink and Gambit unaccounted for.Either of them can help out if they like since Vincent and Hei wont be around till later stacking this even more in my favor. 
     
    Now you said Vincent will show up when the shadow creeps go out.Now as iv said the chances of any of your explosions working are very low.So my team will be just fine and not dazed (And your team will in fact be,seeing as Blink will get either the fire materia or the flash bomb sent back at them) 
    Since two of my members wont be preoccupied the chances of them seeing him coming are very high.Blink can be up to him is less than a second (Something he wont see coming i might add) messing up any shot he though he could get off.As soon as he is engaged in combat with Blink hes as good as dead.Hes not going to be able to react to her porting speeds especially when she knows everything he does long before he does it.As already stated no one on your team can best Blink with her perk.No one.Even more to the point her fights are going to be quick.Getting VIncents every thought and knowing his every opening will put this fight completely in her favor.She should have no problem ending him quickly. 
     
    Now even if he does get a shot off and tags one person with it that will still put us on equal footing since Blink will end Vincent. 
     
    BTW you still have yet to address this.How do you plan on beating Blink?Every time she fights someone they are going to lose and as i said the fights wont take long since she will not only win but dominate them. 
     
    Say it goes like this.Hitomi gets hit and dies via Vincent bullet.Blink ports to Vincents and hes out.The other continue fighting 
    Gambit pick up Greed 
    Blink picks up Hei. 
     
    Out of these two i tend to think Blink will win before Greed does since Gambit has range and knows how to use it.Though for the sake of argument lets say that Bradley snuffs it to Kadaj. 
    Blink will obviously pick him up and i have yet to see any reason of her losing.Lets say for arguments sake that Gambit also loses to Greed in this instance. 
     
    Now we have Blink Vs Greed and Link Vs Cloud. 
     
    Blink will have to get creative here due to Greeds shield.I dont see her getting through it but then again its not like he will ever tag her.The obvious solution is to switch opponents.Now how to do that?Link is very busy at the moment and Blink wont be able to get a message across.That wont be a problem for Blink.She simply ports away from Greed uses her TP on Cloud and times a teleblitze to kick him in the face.Pretty simple.Once he is sent sprawling she tells Link to switch. 
     
    Now its Blink Vs Cloud and Link vs Greed.Since Cloud does not have Greed durability handy Blink wont have much trouble decimating him. 
     
    Link should be able to beat Greed with a mix of swordsman ship and magic attacks and even if he doesnt Greed is still doubled up and cant really win the fight
     
    Blink is really the big obstacle you are facing in this fight.I dont see any way she can lose without being double teamed and even then it wont be easy to beat her.This means that the margin for losing your team has is absolutely zero.If anyone on your team loses to anyone on mine then you cant hope to win the overall fight
    #20 Posted by Sherlock (7250 posts) - - Show Bio
    @Floopay: I know i really laid the smack down in my last comment.Are you still going on this?
    #21 Edited by Floopay (8721 posts) - - Show Bio

    @Sherlock said:

    @Floopay: I know i really laid the smack down in my last comment.Are you still going on this?

    I have about 9 christmas events to do over the course of a week, and then 7 birthdays in January. Then I got work, and a social life to maneuver around, so my time for comicvine has been slim to nil the past week. I'll try to get something in soon though.

    However, Blink will not be catching any fire materia, because if she does, it will end her. Fire Materia sends out an extremely potent ball of concussive force that releases heat and fire upon contact. It is not a one time use item, and catching it would mean she would have to make contact with it, which would more than likely cause it to explode and kill her.

    Though I doubt she would try to catch a ball of fire, though going after the Flash Grenade is perfectly acceptable.

    Also, you talk about Vincent and Hei like they are going to be miles away from my team. They aren't, they are both near my team, but they are taking a stealth route. More than likely, they'll be on top of a building, or statue, hiding in the shadows, and not too far away from my team. The moment those shadow creeps are up you will be dealing with a barrage of bullets.

    As far as Cloud's Strength goes:

    Sephiroth vs. Cloud:

    I'd watch the whole thing, it's a pretty good showing of Cloud. Two weapon provides a lot of defense when you are talking about someone at Cloud's level of strength and defense. He can afford to use a weapon big enough to double as a shield....

    Sephiroth is a a 100+ tonner (his highest feat I've been able to quantify puts him in the 6000 ton range). Now then, Sephiroth holds back his assortment of powers, and shows that when he uses his full strength he overpowers Cloud pretty handily. He's trying to make Cloud suffer, so it's pretty much swordsmanship vs. swordsmanship here, because Sephiroth going all out would slaughter a lot.

    Jump to: 2:50 - Cloud gets thrown through steel and remains relatively unharmed, then fights in the dark and has no issue spotting Sephiroth, someone leagues above him in speed.

    Jump to 3:20 - Cloud shoves Sephiroth through several floors of steel and concrete, so yes, he has a lot of strength.

    Jump to 4:20 - This is Cloud's strength, cutting power, levitation, speed, combat reflexes, situational awareness, and sheer swordsmanship.

    Jump to 5:30 - Sephiroth again, throws him through steel and concrete

    Jump to 6:05 - Sephiroth impales him on the end of his sword, and then stabs the crap out of him, and throws him hard enough to leave a crater in the stee/concrete structure beneath his landing point. And Cloud still stands.

    Jump to 8:10 - Cloud's most powerful limit, Omnislash. Unblockable, moves at blinding speeds, and completely devastating. Note: He has to be dang near dead to perform this technique, he can't just pull it out of nowhere....

    I have listed below the video how to watch it on either Mac or Windows.

    How to Watch this:

    Mac: Control + Option + Apple + 8 to inverse colors.

    Window: Go to START, go to SEARCH, Search "Magnifier", Open it, hit options, click invert colors

    Cloud is tough to beat here. He has seemingly limitless cutting power, and his durability is actually extremely high. he adapts instantly to environmental and battlefield changes, he has levitation, and his weapon allows him to change between Single Weapon, Two Weapon, and a Two Handed Weapon fighting styles.

    Also, I don't see why the Master Sword would do more damage because he has alien cells in his body. The cells have obviously not tainted his soul, or his person. He is a pure of heart, the very definition of hero, a good guy, and has done nothing but fight for the

    As for defense. One aspect you seem to forget, Cloud has a range advantage in melee combat. The Fushion Sword is almost 7 feet in length, Link has a much wider gap to close to even get close enough to attempt a melee strike than Cloud. As an experienced fighter myself, I can say for certain the importance of reach.

    I'll construct more on the other's later. I have lots of gifts to wrap.

    Thanks for reading,

    Floopay

    #22 Posted by Floopay (8721 posts) - - Show Bio

    @Sherlock:

    Now then, sorry for the late response.

    Blink -

    You claim she's unbeatable, but I think you are drastically overestimating movement reading. She is a teleporter, and she's not even peak human in reflexes. The fact is, she's still drastically outclassed physically and mentally by everyone on my team. As great as her power is, it'll only increase her survivability.

    My tactics:

    As far as Shadow Creepers are concerned, it doesn't matter what their overall durability is. They can go intangible, and it's not an uncommon thing for them to do either, they do it in every scene I posted of them, and in every scene they are in. So to assume they aren't going to go intangible and appear behind your team and go for an attack seems silly when more often than not they choose to avoid damage than take it directly. Cloud was able to catch them off guard while they were occupied with someone else, which is what allowed him to finally kill them. When Tifa tried to take them physically they disappeared, appeared below her, threw her in the air, assault her, and when she was about to hit them, they went intangible and switched targets while she was mid-air and unable to perform another assault on them til she landed.

    Vincent and Hei

    They aren't a mile away from my team, they are merely were they are hard to see. The moment Blink grabs that flash grenade, Vincent will undoubtedly appear. Someone teleporting in and grabbing a grenade is something he's going to want to prevent. Additionally, she's not going to be able to grab the fireballs as I've already pointed out, unless she wants to die, so you have two of those being fired at you. Link can only block one of them, and that leaves whoever is left to tank the other unchecked for. Now this attack can blow chunks through steel and concrete, so it's nothing anyone on your team (Hitomi or Bradley) can just shrug off. They can't deflect or block it, because making contact with it will make it explode, so they have to dodge. At which point the Shadow Creepers will be out.

    Considering you've stated your team is porting in ready to attack mine, that means Gambit is also in the mix on the "could be hit by a fire materia fireball" list, and I know he can't tank one of those. Over and above this we have a barrage of bullets from Vincent that can easily kill anyone on your team, and the only person with any means of blocking these projectiles, is Link. Anyone else will lose their weapon, a limb, or straight up die if they are hit by these shots, and he shoots three bullets simultaneously, all of which can rip through steel like butter, and he can fire this thing pretty fast. If he unloads a clip you have 18 bullets to dodge, which is a lot, especially considering his accuracy, and the advantage of surprise. After this he'll target whoever comes at him. If that's Blink, well, she can read his movements, that's fine, but she's much slower, weaker, and doesn't have nearly as potent an arsenal as the sort he usually goes up against.

    As far as Hei goes, once Vincent goes in he'll probably be going for Gambit or Hitomi. Again, he's unaccounted for by your team so he has a surprise advantage, and if he tags anyone with a surprise attack they are dead. He can dodge and deflect any ranged attack Gambit sends out, and Blink could catch him off guard, but he's dealt with some pretty deadly opponents before, I doubt she'll be able to make quick work of him. I mean she has movement reading, but that doesn't make her untouchable.

    Realistically:

    At this point, between Vincent's surprise attack, a shot of fire materia, and Hei, a member of your team has probably bit it. The Shadow Creeps should keep your team pretty occupied. And seeing as they've all stuck together that means Gambit, Hitomi, Link, and Wrath are worrying about them while Blink decides to go against Vincent, who outclasses her physically across the board with superior reflexes and melee abilities.

    So now it's my team, plus Shadow Creeps, moving in. Greed will take Hitomi, Cloud will take Link, Kadaj will jump Wrath. Wrath may have his eye, but again, Kadaj has a huge speed advantage, plus fire materia, plus intangibility. Over and above this I have Hei, who will probably help with Hitomi. His skill set allows him to take her from a distance, and if he gets a hand on her she's dead, which he would only risk if her back was turned to him. Considering I have Shadow Creeps to keep your teams thoughts distracted all over the place, this shouldn't be too difficult.

    I think numbers play a huge advantage here.

    Thanks for reading,

    Floopay

    #23 Posted by Sherlock (7250 posts) - - Show Bio
    @Floopay said:


    Cloud is tough to beat here. He has seemingly limitless cutting power, and his durability is actually extremely high. he adapts instantly to environmental and battlefield changes, he has levitation, and his weapon allows him to change between Single Weapon, Two Weapon, and a Two Handed Weapon fighting styles.

    Also, I don't see why the Master Sword would do more damage because he has alien cells in his body. The cells have obviously not tainted his soul, or his person. He is a pure of heart, the very definition of hero, a good guy, and has done nothing but fight for the

    As for defense. One aspect you seem to forget, Cloud has a range advantage in melee combat. The Fushion Sword is almost 7 feet in length, Link has a much wider gap to close to even get close enough to attempt a melee strike than Cloud. As an experienced fighter myself, I can say for certain the importance of reach.


     Switching styles while flashy and fun to watch is usually pointless.Doing stuff like that is taxing on time and energy.In a fight using one multi purpose style that would work in any situation is always superior to using 20 styles that each have one purpose and 1 situational use
     
    Im actually not the only one who thinks that it would.I did some research and a lot of other people have thought of that 
     
      
      Obviously take it with a grain of salt.You can watch the whole thing if you like.I would recommend just skipping to 8:50 and just look at the statistics.These guys also think Clouds cells would be more vulnerable to the Master Sword as well as going into what i said about fighting style
     
    I havnt forgotten.It an obvious issue for Link but then again he has a shield.Blocking is not something new to him and that is always a good way to get in closer. 
     

    Blink -

    You claim she's unbeatable, but I think you are drastically overestimating movement reading. She is a teleporter, and she's not even peak human in reflexes. The fact is, she's still drastically outclassed physically and mentally by everyone on my team. As great as her power is, it'll only increase her survivability.


    How so am i overestimating it?She knows what her opponent is going t do before they do it every single time.Add to that the fact that she can teleport in less than a second.Say she fighting Vincent.The instant that an attack comes to mind she is going to know and react accordingly.Its not like he is going to know where she will appear next when porting around either.Whats to stop her from porting out of the way of his initial attack,behind him and put her foot in the back of his head?She can repeat this as many times as she likes.(And even though VIncent has superior stats he isnt fast enough that she wont be able to react to him.Especially with TP)Telecombat is formidable in any situation.Blink having TP makes it overkill. 
     

    My tactics:

    As far as Shadow Creepers are concerned, it doesn't matter what their overall durability is. They can go intangible, and it's not an uncommon thing for them to do either, they do it in every scene I posted of them, and in every scene they are in. So to assume they aren't going to go intangible and appear behind your team and go for an attack seems silly when more often than not they choose to avoid damage than take it directly. Cloud was able to catch them off guard while they were occupied with someone else, which is what allowed him to finally kill them. When Tifa tried to take them physically they disappeared, appeared below her, threw her in the air, assault her, and when she was about to hit them, they went intangible and switched targets while she was mid-air and unable to perform another assault on them til she landed.


    IN the SIN scene when they make an appearance Tifa makes contact with them multiple times.Obviously they arent very skilled in using their intangibility.especially since they didnt do so when the kid hit them with the fire hydrant.Just because they have the ability doesnt mean that they can use if effectively in battle.Most of my team can one shot them easily.Hitomi and LInk as easily strong enough to do so and Bradley would likely make mincemeat of them.Unless you can show that they can use that ability effectively without a gain up im still going with them getting one shot by most of my team. 
     

    Vincent and Hei

    They aren't a mile away from my team, they are merely were they are hard to see. The moment Blink grabs that flash grenade, Vincent will undoubtedly appear. Someone teleporting in and grabbing a grenade is something he's going to want to prevent. 

    OK i want to clear this up.Blink is not going to grab the grenade.She is going to hit it with a bolt.That is also only 1 scenario.I gave several other ways to neutralize it. 

    . Additionally, she's not going to be able to grab the fireballs as I've already pointed out, unless she wants to die, so you have two of those being fired at you. Link can only block one of them, and that leaves whoever is left to tank the other unchecked for. Now this attack can blow chunks through steel and concrete, so it's nothing anyone on your team (Hitomi or Bradley) can just shrug off. They can't deflect or block it, because making contact with it will make it explode, so they have to dodge. At which point the Shadow Creepers will be out.



     You are also misquoting me here.I said nothing about grabbing anything be it grenade of fireball.  
    OK King Hyperion has Superman level durability.His eye beams went through his spine in this scan.Do you honestly think that Blink can grab something like that and survive?No not at all.She teleported the blast it never once made contact with her or anything else.If she uses TP to get a read on the situation then she could easily send those things right back at you in this same method.  
    Also 
      
      2:45 Hitomi has already shown the ability to block fire Materia
     
    I also want to note here that no matter how this goes down you team is going to get the worse of it.Blink can send either the grenade or the fire strait back to your team.That isnt going to bode well for them by any means.So yes send out the shadow creeps.Your team just got hit by their own attack and is not going to be able to mount a counter for a few.That makes it my team vs the creeps all alone in witch case the creeps lose.  
     

    Considering you've stated your team is porting in ready to attack mine, that means Gambit is also in the mix on the "could be hit by a fire materia fireball" list, and I know he can't tank one of those. Over and above this we have a barrage of bullets from Vincent that can easily kill anyone on your team, and the only person with any means of blocking these projectiles, is Link. Anyone else will lose their weapon, a limb, or straight up die if they are hit by these shots, and he shoots three bullets simultaneously, all of which can rip through steel like butter, and he can fire this thing pretty fast. If he unloads a clip you have 18 bullets to dodge, which is a lot, especially considering his accuracy, and the advantage of surprise. After this he'll target whoever comes at him. If that's Blink, well, she can read his movements, that's fine, but she's much slower, weaker, and doesn't have nearly as potent an arsenal as the sort he usually goes up against.

    Glad you remember that.Surprise attack also puts this in my favor. 
    No one will be hit except your team as iv explained over and over. 
    Im not sure what 3 shots at once will really do for him.Its not like they all go different directions. 
    Vincent wont get many shots off before Blink gets there.She teleports in less than a second.As soon as she realizes they are being shot at shell be there in less than a second. 
    What pray tell is going to stop her from porting up to Vincent and simply kick him off the building hes perched on?How is he going to react to that?He wont see the attack coming,how could he.She can hit him with a barrage of attacks that he will never see coming.Power of tele blitzing 
      
      Head to 3:00.The red haired one (The teleported) going into a mad barrage of attacks.Thats how teleblitzing works.Vincent may have superior stats but i dont see him reacting to that especially when Blink will know every move he makes.Sorry i just dont see it@Floopay said:


    As far as Hei goes, once Vincent goes in he'll probably be going for Gambit or Hitomi. Again, he's unaccounted for by your team so he has a surprise advantage, and if he tags anyone with a surprise attack they are dead. He can dodge and deflect any ranged attack Gambit sends out, and Blink could catch him off guard, but he's dealt with some pretty deadly opponents before, I doubt she'll be able to make quick work of him. I mean she has movement reading, but that doesn't make her untouchable.


    How will Hei block any of Gambits cards.Those things make huge explosions.Blocking is simply not in the cards. 
    Hei has never faced a teleporter with Blinks level of skill who can read his thoughts and thereby predict his every move.The same thing i said about Vincent applies here to.The difference is that Hei doesnt have Vincents durability.Sorry but he cant win 

    Realistically:

    At this point, between Vincent's surprise attack, a shot of fire materia, and Hei, a member of your team has probably bit it. The Shadow Creeps should keep your team pretty occupied. And seeing as they've all stuck together that means Gambit, Hitomi, Link, and Wrath are worrying about them while Blink decides to go against Vincent, who outclasses her physically across the board with superior reflexes and melee abilities.

    So now it's my team, plus Shadow Creeps, moving in. Greed will take Hitomi, Cloud will take Link, Kadaj will jump Wrath. Wrath may have his eye, but again, Kadaj has a huge speed advantage, plus fire materia, plus intangibility. Over and above this I have Hei, who will probably help with Hitomi. His skill set allows him to take her from a distance, and if he gets a hand on her she's dead, which he would only risk if her back was turned to him. Considering I have Shadow Creeps to keep your teams thoughts distracted all over the place, this shouldn't be too difficult.

    I think numbers play a huge advantage here.


    I still say the creeps get one shot.The fire materia is going back at your team and blowing them up.They wont be in the fight for a bit leaving any and all shadow creeps all alone making them easy prey 
    Vincents physicals arent really an issue here.Iv already gone over why he would lose 
     
    As a quick sum up. 
    Your teams fire attack will go right back at them and needless to say they are going to be hurting.Since Blink can put the blast directly behind them the chances of them seeing it and reacting in time to dodge it is next to Zero.Now your team is hurting and likely a little woozy from the attack.This leaves the Shadow creeps to take on my team alone.I still dont see them using their intangibility very well in combat in the vid you posted.They have it but dont really use it well enough to really make a case for.Without backup from you team they go down hard. 
     
    Vincents gets his shots off and likely kills and wounds a few people.Blink ports up and makes mincemeat of him. 
     
    Your team is likely up and running again (And hurting) and back in the fray with my team.Hei makes an appearance.Considering he need to be practically on top of someone to use his power effectively i dont see him making much or a surprise attack. 
     
    Blink comes back and pretty much decimates anyone who stands against her.I even thought of a plan for Greeling.She just drops a building on him. (Or a very large stone as is more likely) 

      
    You can add whatever you like but i for one am ready for votes
    #24 Posted by Floopay (8721 posts) - - Show Bio

    @Sherlock:

    That Cloud vs. Link battle is a complete load of crap, I've seen it before, and they are way off. First of all, Composite Link STOMPS Cloud into the ground like it's nobodies business. Second, they have Cloud using the Buster Sword instead of the Fushion Blade, which is a much weaker weapon. They pretty much took feats from Link throughout the entire series, and took zero feats from Cloud and based their opinion of him off of almost nothing. Over and above this they pin Cloud as being predictable, impulsive, and moody. Yes, he's emo, everybody knows this, but he's far from predictable, and far from impulsive.

    In the fight I posted of him vs. Sephiroth alone he constantly changed tactic, and contrary to what the video states, Cloud isn't limited to a single fighting style. He can go two weapon, he can use his weapons for range, he has superior cutting feats to any version of Link, he can use his weapon two handed, one handed, and etc. I don't know why they pinned Firaga and Thundaga as his signature materia, as there is literally zero mention of Cloud using any specific materia, it is stated that he has obtained a wide plethora of materia throughout his adventures, most of it destructive, to use against Sephiroth. It is proven that his party has mastered multiple haste materias, fire materias, lightning materias, cure materias, regenerate materias, heal materias, etc. etc.

    On the Way to a Smile

    Episode 5

    Note: You don't have to read any of it, just a way of showing how much materia they really had throughout FF7, including ones of immense destructive power, and of incredible healing power.

    The Forgotten City. At a small lake where Aerith had lost her life and saw everyone off, Yuffie and the others had returned once again to let her know that the fight against Sephiroth was over. They all stood silently around the lake's altar. None of them spoke but each of them were speaking to Aerith with their own words.

    "Bye."

    It was Vincent's low voice. By the time Yuffie turned round to face him, his red mantle was already flailing behind him. What was with him, thought Yuffie. Is that the way he was going to part with us?

    "Hold it- Hooold it!!"

    She cried out hurrying after him.

    "How can you part with us just like that? We're all war buddies you know."

    Her protesting didn't stop him. She ran ahead and the two of them stood face to face. He looked as if he was staring at a point far into the distance. Yuffie didn't know what he was thinking or what was going through his mind but his gaze was very powerful. She stepped back immediately knowing that she couldn't stop him.

    "Take care," Vincent said as he passed her. Yuffie never expected such words from him and let go of what just happened as she felt his heart for the first time.

    Cloud, Tifa, Barret, Cid and Red XIII were watching them.

    "Looks like he has somewhere to go," reported Yuffie as she returned to her comrades.

    "To his woman probably. Time I got going too," said Cid.

    "Yeah, you're right. Same for me," agreed Barret.

    Everyone has someone they want to go see, thought Yuffie. She understood but couldn't hold her feelings in.

    "You know... You guys sure are taking this lightly."

    "It just means we know we can always meet again," said Cid as he started to walk off. Cloud and Tifa nodded. Even Red XIII agreed too. Red XIII's just forcing himself along , thought Yuffie.

    "Yeah."

    As she began to feel the same way they did, she accepted what was about to happen.

    "Lets go."

    Cloud and Tifa began to walk off. Yeah. Once we leave this place, it really is goodbye for us all,thought Yuffie. But that's fine. I'll enjoy our parting with all the energy I have.

    "Hey wait!"

    Barret suddenly raised his voice. Man, this parting's ruined. That's why I don't like the old man. She looked over at him and saw him removing the materia from his prosthetic arm, handing it over to Cloud.

    "What do we do with this?"

    "Hey wait!"

    Realising she had forgotten something very important, Yuffie raised her voice. She had almost forgotten the whole purpose of her journey.

    "Can I have all the- No, I mean can I just have half of all the materia? I'll bring them back to Wutai with me and keep them in safe custody. Well, I'll use them too maybe. Just a little."

    The eyes of all her comrades gathered on her. She loved to be the centre of attention but this time she felt a little guilty. She continued to speak in an effort to hide that guiltiness.

    "I was in the middle of hunting for materia you know. I got close to you all because I was following my instincts as a materia hunter. The materia you all had was just too tempting."

    Shinra's research, technology and knowledge of the planet's life allowed them to bestow "powers" into the materia Cloud and his party possessed that wasn't possible to produce naturally.

    "To be honest with you all, I didn't really know what you were all after or know much about your past. Even now, I think it's the same. But I fought with you all didn't I? And it wasn't because of the materia. I just wanted to be of use, even if I wasn't much. We're friends now. Come on, think about it. How many times have I saved you all from pinches?"

    After she finished, Yuffie thought, Damn. There's no truth to that part.

    "Yeah, you helped us many times," said Tifa.

    Yuffie was confused.

    "You're an ideal child, so cheery and strong."

    "Huh!?"

    Yuffie was surprised and waited for Tifa to continue. But Tifa just smiled and stayed silent.

    "Are you serious?" Yuffie asked without thinking.

    "Mmhmm," nodded Tifa immediately.

    "Eheheh."

    Yuffie thought about what she just heard as she blushed. She was surprised that she just might be getting the materia with no objections.

    "What do you think, Barret."

    Cloud had suddenly turned round to ask him. Why the hell are you asking Barret for? Yuffie thought but remained silent.

    "Hmmmm—" mused Barret. "It's true that Yuffie's a good friend of ours. But it's a whole different matter when it comes to materia, isn't it?"

    "No it isn't! It's the same. The same! I know it maybe all over now that we've defeated Sephiroth but, I have a great dream and that's to restore Wutai. To do that, having materia is crucial."

    "Restoration eh—"

    This time it was Cid who piped in. Shut up old man! Yuffie glared at him.

    "If that's what you need it for, isn't Midgar much worse off?"

    "You're right."

    After agreeing with Cid, Cloud fell in thought.

    "Hey, Yuffie. How about this? We'll give you all the materia."

    "Alright!"

    "But I keep it in safe custody."

    "Er— Are you trying to trick a child here! "

    Thinking she was being made a fool, she stood up tall in protest.

    "You got it all wrong. Most of our materia are used for battle right? It really won't be of much use for Wutai. So we'll just share the ones that will be of use in healing and I'll keep the rest. I think I'm the one that's the most experienced when it comes to dangerous materia."

    "It's true we don't need any equipment for battles any more but—"

    "Yeah?"

    "Even if we can't use them, we'll feel much more at ease with them won't we?"

    "Then lets do this. You return to Wutai but if you feel uneasy without materia then contact me. We'll think about it again then."

    Cloud was speaking in a gentle tone but in the end, his decision to keep the materia was clear to Yuffie. And just as he said, even if Wutai had a lot of materia with immeasurable destructive power, they may not be of much use. Times have changed. Even Yuffie understood that.

    "Fine. You be sure to take good care of my materia."

    "And so, now I'm the one with the most materia in the world. What do you think of that?"

    Yuffie was on her way back to her hometown of Wutai and had been talking to the chocobo she was riding the whole time.

    "Do you think I should buy some new clothes somewhere? These clothes got all worn during that long journey."

    Yuffie thought about the people of Wutai who she expected will be welcoming her home. She was sure they already knew the planet managed to avoid the catastrophic Meteor because of them. That's why they will surely gather together to hear her stories.

    "Oh wait. These worn clothes will help show how much hardship I've been through. Yes, this is what I'll do. I'll keep these clothes as they are. But more importantly, I better prepare my stories!"

    However, Yuffie realised that she didn't know how a lot of the important things had happened and in what order just before the world was close to its end.

    "This isn't good—"

    What had everyone been thinking? What happened as a result of their thinking? There was a lot of things Yuffie, who only joined them some point during their journey, didn't know.

    "I wish I asked them about it— But whatever. I'll just have to improvise. The former Soldier Sephiroth that the evil Shinra Company created was thinking of great evil deeds. As Cloud and his friends fought Shinra Company, they pursued Sephiroth. When Sephiroth was cornered, he tried to use the Black Materia to summon a small meteor to crash into the planet. We risked our lives and stopped him. Yes, perfect. Easy for them to understand."

    What Yuffie didn't know was that a lot of the details she didn't know about had already reached Wutai. With the exception that she was involved.

    "Hey."

    Wutai was in sight. Yuffie had returned to visit a number of times during her journey but the feeling was different after finishing something. She stopped the chocobo and gazed at her home in the distance.

    "Huh? Why am I...?"

    Yuffie didn't understand why she was wiping away tears.

    Blink

    As for Blink I have 1 Grenade and 2 Fireballs going in 3 different directions, she's not catching them all, the fireballs alone move at least as fast as a bullet, it's not like Hyperion where she was already generating an attack to teleport. As far as the explosion goes...well. We have Kadaj and Cloud, who have taken these blasts before, so they should be pretty fine. Not to mention Cloud has dodged bullets fired at him from near point-blank-range and dodged them without even looking at the guy firing at him. Plus Kadaj has replicated this feat, he was able to allow bullets to phase through him while fighting the Turks in the FF7 Manga The Kids Are Alright. As for Greed...well.

    And then we have Greed

    Greed will already have his ultimate shield up when the fight starts, as you can see in the video provided, it's not exactly out of character for him to do so in a serious fight. He was tanking RPG blasts, got hit by a truck, bullets had no effect on him, and he was able to rip through and engine block with zero issue. To say the least, a fire materia blast isn't going to be much of a big deal to him.

    Greed is a huge problem for your team. Blink can't really hurt him, Wrath can't really hurt him with his shields up (in fact, Wrath's swords shattered against his skin), and Hitomi, though strong, doesn't have the strength to get past his shields. Not even Gambit has much of a chance against him here, your best bet would be Link going against him.

    Hei dealing with Gambit's attacks and Blink:

    Yeah, they're explosive, but he can potentially just destroy them before they explode, or hit them from a distance with a dagger, or just avoid them all together, it's not like he hasn't dealt with people slinging crap at him before:

    Easily avoids attacks from Mina Hazuki, and shows that his electric manipulation can counter charged energy weapons, as he shatter's Mina's weapon, which could cut through entire trees with zero issue, and can go through steel like butter, so obviously it was his power, not his weapon that did it:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2qVxDsbCLI

    Hei knows how teleportation works, he hasn't fought a teleporter, but he's encountered a teleporter before, her name was Brita.

    And to be honest, Hei's entire job was to kill contractors, who had a host of powers, it's not like one new power is going to blow his mind. He fought people who can distingrate someone with their blood, displace matter, control earth, people with invisibility, people who could control swarms of projectiles, people with instant freezing, explosive handprints, illusion casting, body switching, gravity manipulation, charging matter, people who could create suits of random materials they could control, reality warping, etc. etc.

    Most of the contractors he has killed were from before he even had powers, to say that someone is going to trump him just because they learn to read body language or because they have a power he hasn't come across is completely silly, because most of the people's he's fought had powers he had never gone up against before.

    Cloud:

    Link still has no answer to a wide variety of Cloud's attacks.

    One Final Touch and Link will be slung halfway across the map, and by the time Link gets back, Wrath or Hitomi will probably have bought the farm because Cloud will turn around and finish one of them off rather quickly.

    You can bring up random videos of people speculating Cloud vs Link all day, but unless you can prove that the Master Sword does more damage against a pure and innocent soul, then the whole having cells of an alien species in him is sort of null and void. I mean, the definition of the Master Sword in every Zelda is it does more damage against evil foes, not that it's a racist mystical sword that kills anyone it think comes from an evil race, or has evil blood in their body. Cloud hasn't ever done anything evil, he's always been a good guy, even with alien cells in his body he has successfully vanquished evil multiple times, and saved countless lives. Unless the Master Sword is actually the Master Sword of Racism, I think that argument is fading.

    The video claims Cloud's technique is predictable, but I've proven it isn't, so an ill put together video saying otherwise isn't much of a defense:

    Cloud dodges hypersonic attacks, and dodges and deflects bullets with zero issue, and constantly switches between single and dual weapon style. Over and above this he has blade beams, and overwhelming mobility. His tactics are ever changing, and even against two opponent and even while he is plagued by an extremely painful and devastating disease, he is able to hold his own relatively well.

    Cloud vs. Sephiroth

    Cloud shows that he can instantly adapt to a changing environment, shows off the sheer power of his limit breakers, cuts through debris effortlessly, leaps vast distances, has incredible mobility, constantly changes between weapon styles.

    Cloud vs. Kadaj

    http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x20nnp_final-fantasy-7-advent-children-mca_shortfilms

    13:45-14:00 - You see Cloud sort of just moves his sword and Kadaj flies across the building onto the roof of another building. That's Final Touch, Cloud doesn't need to get amped at all, in any fight lasting more than 30 seconds he should build up enough to be able to use this ability, which should be more than capable of sweeping Link halfway across the map, and keep him away for 30 seconds.

    Composite Link may beat Cloud, but regular Link is, at best, Cloud's equal.

    You claim that his sword is nothing but flashy, and have claimed sword and shield is an obvious superior, but have provided nothing to the contrary. Cloud's weapon's overwhelming size, and the fact that he wields it as if he's holding a feather allows him to use his weapon as a shield in and of itself. Over and above this, he has fought multiple opponents simultaneously, both spamming an attack that boosts them to hypersonic speeds, and fought them on equal ground. Cloud has demonstrated a constantly changing fighting style, as opposed to Link's static fighting style, that makes it impossibly difficult to fight against.

    Over and above this he has haste materia which boosts his speed by over double for brief periods of time, and his fire materia. Now Link's shield is fine and all, but he'll absorb all of one fireball before Cloud realizes he can only use his fire materia in spots where Link can't block, and that fire materia provides an overwhelmingly large amount of concussive blast, which is really what does the most damage, and an indirect hit from that will leave someone dazed.

    Thanks for reading,

    Floopay

    #25 Posted by Sherlock (7250 posts) - - Show Bio
    @Floopay: Of corse the vid was silly.I was only getting at the fact that i wasnt the only person who thought of that. 
    In fighting having a single all purpose style is certainly not limiting.You have a shield to defend yourself and a sword to attack with.Its basic and it works.Changing it up constantly is going to take time every time.Cloud switches swords.This is going to take a second. 
    My primary point here is Link is able to block with his shield until he finds an opening.Cloud cant do this in the same way.Defending witha sword is always going to be inferior to defending with a shield. 
     
    Also just to note.When Link is reincarnated all of his fighting prowess is passed on.Also note that the arsenal for Link that im using is made up of quite a few different games.Technically this is Composite Link  
     
    I cant prove that the Master Sword will do extra damage.How can i?Cloud and Link have never met and likely never will.I can speculate and im not saying you have to agree.I think it would you think it wouldn't.We both made our case and now were just going to have to let people make their own opinions. 
     
    And 1 final note on the Mirror Shield.It absorbs and redirects energy based attacks.I dont think the materia will even blow.Its just going to get sucked into the shield. 
     
     
    On Blink.1 thing that you keep saying that is incorrect.The listed people with the perk i used for Blink are Mr X and the Gorgan.Neither of them read movements they read minds.There is literally nothing that Blinks opponent can do that she will not see coming.If anyone on your team has ever fought a person who can teleport in less than a second (To the point of being in three different places on one panel) and read their minds to the point of anticipating every move they make ill let it go.Fact is they haven't.Blink has good enough reflexes to dodge blasts from Dark Phoenix.She may not be on par with Cloud Kadaj and Vincent but because she can read their thoughts she doesnt have to be.Every attack they try she will see coming and will react accordingly.Most if not all of them can be avoided easily by porting out of the way.As soon a thats done she reappears behind them and kicks the in the spine and again she could do this all day.Not to mention using their own attacks against them.Someone with high durability like Greeling wont be easy to beat but again there is literally no way he will ever tag her. 
     Heres the Phoenix instance
    #26 Posted by Floopay (8721 posts) - - Show Bio

    @Sherlock:

    As far as mind reading goes, Vincent has shown resistance to mind altering effects and contains a huge portion of the lifestream within his body, this portion of the lifestream is considered tainted and contains a being call "Chaos". Now though I have posted this is Vincent with his Chaos Form disabled, this is still Vincent Valentine, which means he contains two beings within his body, one of which is Chaos. I could argue with more than just fair certainty that reading his moves and thoughts would be a futile effort.

    Vincent gets absorbed into the darkness from Nero and rescues Shelke (who is protected by a shield, not going into detail about that)

    Emerges unharmed and feeling alright, because of the portion of the lifestream in his body.

    How a normal person acts when they touch Nero's darkness:

    Just being touched by the dark wisps that surround him send a normal person into the darkest depths of their memory:

    Jump to 2:20

    Jump to 5:20

    Causes immense psychological pain. But again, Vincent isn't affected, Chaos protects him from this. Reading his mind is to read his mind and Chaos's mind, and Chaos is not to be trifled with.

    Hei and Vincent

    My point about Hei still stands. She can read minds, and she can teleport. Impressive, but again, he's fought a lot of people with a lot of powers, the fact is that she has to read one person's moves at a time, and it doesn't make her immune to being hit by whoever she's reading. Plain and simply, I have my entire team here going against your entire team, and the person attacking her isn't always going to be the person she is focusing on.

    If she's attacking Hei, Vincent could very well be shooting at her, in fact, your whole team could be being shot at this entire match, to slip up once is to be killed, I've proven this already because of the strength of Vincent's bullets.

    Hei I've proven can disrupt energy attacks, and he has fought so many opponents with so many powers:

    Matter Displacement and Gunmen:

    Disintegrating Blood:

    Atmospheric Manipulation and Freezing by Touch

    Reality Warping Bubble

    And there are so many more I can't find the videos for!

    Plus I still have Shadow Creepers, which provide a good numbers advantage to keep your team busy. If Blink focuses on one of them at all, then she loses concentration against my other team mates.

    Then we have Greed. Him and Lan dispatched Gluttony pretty handily:

    Lets not forget Ling has his Dao here, plus grenades:

    Ling is able to match Wrath (though he isn't able to use his eye here because of the eyepatch) when Wrath doesn't have his eye. That's a pretty dang good feat considering Ling's physically outmatched here in every capacity.

    Plus he rocks Glutton pretty well here too, something not to be discounted in the slightest.

    Plus my perk:

    I have five very tactically minded players here with ridiculous situational awareness. And they all have essentially a telepathic comm link. When backup is needed, when somebody is vulnerable on your team, when Blink is out of sight, etc. etc. My entire team will know because of a mere thought. Blink may have movement reading, but my team has perfect coordination.

    Thanks for reading,

    Floopay

    #27 Posted by Sherlock (7250 posts) - - Show Bio
    @Floopay: Im not quite sure what the Vincent Videos prove.Nothing about that would give me reason to believe that he is immune to TP.An extra mind in there is a nice thing but unless Chaos can mind rape Blink when she users her powers (Which BTW is illegal) or can present some kind of resistance or perhaps something like Yu Gi Ohs millenium puzzle.I dont see anything to indicate that though. 
     
    Im not trying to be rude but your point about Hei never stood.Hes an excellent fighter in his own right but he has no chance here.Have you seen some of the stuff Mr X pulls?He decimates people regularly.The only times anyone beats him is if they can bypass his TP in some way.This is something that Hei cant do.Hell even look as Cassie Cain.She just read body movement and decimates people.Hei has fought a lot of people and done some amazing things but this is an obstacle he cant get over. 
     
     
     Vs Wolverine.Logan is no slouch in H2H.Not to mention his healing factor and unbreakable skeleton.Then throw in super human stats that most of your team would find impressive.Again Logan cant even hit the guy.This is all because of Mr Xs TP. 
     
     Taskmaster another one of the top fighters on 616 earth.Again cant even touch the guy 
     
    Blocking automatic gun fire.I mean really how much more need i say on the topic.There is nothing Hei can do that Blink will not know about.Mr X has no powers other than his TP.Just think what he could do with teleportation.My point still stands that there is no one here who can actually beat her 
     
    Ill admit coordinating your efforts will be very helpful.Im still unsure as to how that will assist with Blink.Most of her fights wont last long (Similar to the fights i just posted of Mr X) and its her opponents wont really get whats going on at all.All they will really know is that she is all over them and reacting to everything they do perfectly. 
     
     
    You made a small case for Vincent being capable.The case however is very small given that it in no way pertains to telepathy.The rest of them have no defense other than a full on gain up.Needless to say no one on your team knows this is what needs to be done given they dont know who Blink is or what she is capable of (And that includes her TP) 
     
    I still dont see her being beaten by anyone 1v1 and in order to double team her you would need to take out multiple members of my team faster than she can.My team is very competent indeed and beating any wont be easy.Blink on the other hand know every move her opponent will make.I dont see her fights being any different than the ones of Mr X i just posted. 
     
    Im still ready for votes whenever you are.Though feel free to continue
    #28 Posted by Floopay (8721 posts) - - Show Bio

    @Sherlock:

    I think you are way overestimating Blink's perk. You seem to assume that being given the ability to read surface thoughts automatically gives her Mister X's, Gorgon, and Cassandra Cain's martial arts training, when it doesn't. Those characters have a level of martial arts training, an entire life of honing their lethal abilities as well as have the ability to read thoughts and body movement. Charles Xavier can read thoughts to a much greater level, but he can't fight like either of them....at all. Same goes with Moondragon, Cable, X-Man, Emma Frost, Jean Grey, etc. etc.

    All of them are, in fact, greater telepaths than Mister X, and none of them are nearly as skilled at him at dodging attacks, and using the knowledge of what their opponent is about to do to actively defeat their opponent nearly to the same degree as Gorgon or Mister X. If you would like I can probably name 15-20 more telepaths who match or surpass Mister X and Gorgon in telepathic ability and still don't match either of the two in sheer martial ability.

    Heck, Wolverine doesn't have any telepathy and he's a much greater martial arts fighter than Kid Omega, who is a far suprerior telepath to either Mister X or Gorgon. Again, she can have as much movement reading and telepathy as she wants, she doesn't have the lifetime of martial arts training that they do to put her on their level.

    You seem to be assuming that none of what Mister X and Gorgon do has anything to do with their training, and has everything to do with their power. Which is completely false, I would wager that if you were to depower both of them, or put them against, Sabertooth or a Berserker Wolverine (which both of them successfully fought might I add) they would still do pretty dang well, and would not have that ability to back them up.

    Over and above this she can only read a single person at a time. The moment she targets one person, I can alert anyone in my team as to her exact location, meaning if she targets Vincent, Hei could target her, if she targets Hei, Vincent could shoot her, if she targets Cloud, Kadaj can send Shadow Creepers her way, etc. etc.

    Vincent:

    Vincent has 2 beings in his body, meaning she would be reading 2 sets of thoughts, meaning her ability to read his movements would be much much more difficult. Assuming she can even probe his mind, because the shadow wraiths that I have shown affect people telepathically have zero affect on Vincent. Chaos doesn't have to mind rape Blink, the fact is she has two sets of thoughts she has to sort through to come up with what he's going to do.

    Hei

    Hei has immense amounts of training against Super Powered opponents. Over and above this, he earned his title "The Black Reaper" before he obtained a power of his own. He is even more lethal with his power, and Blink may have two abilities, but she doesn't have Mister X or Gorgon's level of training, so she may have an advantage, but he's still immensely skilled.

    Hei's skill is hard to match, he dodges attacks from people he doesn't even know are there. He reacts instantly, and without hesitation. One instant it looks as if he's losing, and in the next he's killing that opponent.

    He's not infallible, he's lost a couple times, but he does pretty dang well, even without his powers he can hold his own pretty well:

    Depowered Hei facing Miza:

    This is where he loses, when depowered, against a bloodlusted Mina, her power speaks for itself:

    He does extremely well here, to so much as be touched by any object she energizes would kill him, and she is full blown bloodlusted.

    Kadaj

    Over and above this Kadaj is fighting Wrath. Now then, one thing I would like to point out here.

    Talk about a badass btw, Mustang = Awesomesauce

    Homunculi are weak against fire and heat. Kadaj wields both Lightning and Fire Materia here. Both are pretty decent in terms of AoE as well, so dodging them is not going to be easy. With his intangibility, he can use it point blank and survive the blast. Whereas Wrath will only become hurt and damaged, and his body will slow down.

    Thanks for reading,

    Floopay

    #29 Posted by Sherlock (7250 posts) - - Show Bio
    @Floopay said:

    @Sherlock:

    I think you are way overestimating Blink's perk. You seem to assume that being given the ability to read surface thoughts automatically gives her Mister X's, Gorgon, and Cassandra Cain's martial arts training, when it doesn't. Those characters have a level of martial arts training, an entire life of honing their lethal abilities as well as have the ability to read thoughts and body movement. Charles Xavier can read thoughts to a much greater level, but he can't fight like either of them....at all. Same goes with Moondragon, Cable, X-Man, Emma Frost, Jean Grey, etc. etc.

    All of them are, in fact, greater telepaths than Mister X, and none of them are nearly as skilled at him at dodging attacks, and using the knowledge of what their opponent is about to do to actively defeat their opponent nearly to the same degree as Gorgon or Mister X. If you would like I can probably name 15-20 more telepaths who match or surpass Mister X and Gorgon in telepathic ability and still don't match either of the two in sheer martial ability.

    Heck, Wolverine doesn't have any telepathy and he's a much greater martial arts fighter than Kid Omega, who is a far suprerior telepath to either Mister X or Gorgon. Again, she can have as much movement reading and telepathy as she wants, she doesn't have the lifetime of martial arts training that they do to put her on their level.

    You seem to be assuming that none of what Mister X and Gorgon do has anything to do with their training, and has everything to do with their power. Which is completely false, I would wager that if you were to depower both of them, or put them against, Sabertooth or a Berserker Wolverine (which both of them successfully fought might I add) they would still do pretty dang well, and would not have that ability to back them up.

    Over and above this she can only read a single person at a time. The moment she targets one person, I can alert anyone in my team as to her exact location, meaning if she targets Vincent, Hei could target her, if she targets Hei, Vincent could shoot her, if she targets Cloud, Kadaj can send Shadow Creepers her way, etc. etc.

    I still dont see how im doing so.You are correct that Blink is not a skilled a combatant as Cassie or Tomi or Mr X.She makes up for that with her primary powerset.A teleporter who knows how to use their powers is already very formidable in H2H.Blink is no different.She could give anyone on your team a run just with that power (And a weapon since most of them have huge durability).In this case she gets a read on their attacks before they make them.Sure she may not have the muscle memory that they have to parry blows.Frankly though she doesnt need it since blocking is far less efficient then simply teleporting out of the way.Im really not sure how many more ways i can explain this  
     

    Vincent:

    Vincent has 2 beings in his body, meaning she would be reading 2 sets of thoughts, meaning her ability to read his movements would be much much more difficult. Assuming she can even probe his mind, because the shadow wraiths that I have shown affect people telepathically have zero affect on Vincent. Chaos doesn't have to mind rape Blink, the fact is she has two sets of thoughts she has to sort through to come up with what he's going to do.


    She isnt going to be tapping very far into his mind otherwise the power would be slightly useless.Unless Chaos can give him defense against TP or is right up there with Vincent as he thinks i cant really fathom any way that will be of any help. 

    Talk about a badass btw, Mustang = Awesomesauce

    Homunculi are weak against fire and heat. Kadaj wields both Lightning and Fire Materia here. Both are pretty decent in terms of AoE as well, so dodging them is not going to be easy. With his intangibility, he can use it point blank and survive the blast. Whereas Wrath will only become hurt and damaged, and his body will slow down.

    Thanks for reading,

    Floopay

    Mustang is like the ultimate man. 
    Bradley has no healing powers.Fire is no more effective against him than it would be any normal person. 
    Bradley can also dodge and deflect bullets.The blast will have to be damn fast for him to be unable to avoid them 
    Im kinda doubting that Kadaj would go for a risky attack like that.Has he ever done something like that?
    #30 Posted by Floopay (8721 posts) - - Show Bio

    @Sherlock:

    Mustang is like the ultimate man.
    Bradley has no healing powers.Fire is no more effective against him than it would be any normal person.
    Bradley can also dodge and deflect bullets.The blast will have to be damn fast for him to be unable to avoid them
    Im kinda doubting that Kadaj would go for a risky attack like that.Has he ever done something like that?

    Yeah, his only instance of using Fire Materia was cutting it rather close actually. He's brutal, and well timed. Here:

    Jump to 3:40 - Uses it pretty dang close to himself, whole thing is in slow motion, and he jumps out of the building to chase after President Shinra.

    He's also used his intangibility in combat. I can't provide scans I can only source it. It comes from Final Fantasy 7 Turk Files: The Kids are Alright. There was a translated manga version online (because you can't order it translated at all), but I can't even seem to find it non-translated online these days. He uses it against a group of turks who try to gun him down and the bullets phase right through him, it's also in the wiki I suppose

    http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Kadaj

    I'm ready for voting at anytime, but can continue debating near indefinitely with these characters if you'd like. So just let me know where you're at.

    Thanks for reading,

    Floopay

    #31 Posted by Sherlock (7250 posts) - - Show Bio
    @Floopay: Yeah im down for voting
    #32 Posted by Floopay (8721 posts) - - Show Bio

    And anyone else who would like to put in an opinion. This thread is ready for voting (and sorry, but it's a long one).

    Thanks for reading,

    Floopay

    #33 Posted by TheAcidSkull (17775 posts) - - Show Bio

    i am sorry but i in the dark here, i seriously can't deiced who won.....both of you were just awesome in the debate.

    i'll give a slight edge to Floopay. but damn sherlock, if you gave half this kind of effort in our hulk vs ww debate, you'd mop the floor with me, well done man.

    bravo both of you.

    Online
    #34 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (20117 posts) - - Show Bio

    This...will take a while...

    #35 Edited by logy5000 (5709 posts) - - Show Bio

    This is what I call clash of the titans.

    #36 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

    Slight edge to Floopay due to having the faster characters and being able to bring some more versatility to this fight. Versatility won out over me.