Vermin vs Batgirl

battle takes place inside a sewer.... she is hunting for the killer cannibal and runs into a mountain of rats...... from the mount  rises vermin..... disgusted batgirl falls back and prepares for a fight she was not aware would result with some kind of sewer monster
 

This is going to depend on Vermin. I'm going to give it to Batgirl though.

Batgirl dies horribly,Vermin can go toe to toe with Spiderman

No one in the bat family can take on spidey and there's no argument.

They're are outclassed.

Stop being biased fanboys.

Vermin has lost to captain america, Anna, and Sergei. His stats are inconsistent ranging from weaker than Kraven to being on par with spider-man and lizard IIRC.

This isn't one sided though.

I think if we use Vermins more impressive feats he should win but not sure if thats the right answer since Vermin has lost to every skilled martial artist he's gone up against. I imagine his fighting style could give Cassies move reading problems though. Its unpredictable and she has had problems reading Monsieur Mallah in the past since he wasn't human. She could only read him when his movements were "basic". And Vermins fighting style is known for being unpredictable as well.

Very interesting fight to think about.

Batgirl stomps.

I want to give it to Vermin, but he's been inconsistent. At his best, I'd give him the win. At his worst, Batgirl wins.

I think back in the day, Marvel intended to make Vermin somewhat like Puma (bad@ss) but too many writers got a hold of the character and ruined him. :(

Actually he was a captain america villain originally. According to handbooks he can only lift half a ton I believe. Based on feats this is debatable (due to the little power creep he got when writers decided to make him a spider-man villain, making his showings inconsistent).

I would say its the other way around. His classic showings are not as good but his more recent showings are much more impressive.

@jashro44: yes, you are telling me something I already know, but thanks anyway

This

and

This, is enough for me...Cass stomps.

@bat_girl_cc: I wouldn't say she stomps. Vermin is an animalistic character who is unpredictable. I see him messing with her move reading.

@thekillerofgods: So you bumped this out of hate? Kind of pathetic.

If Vermin is at his best, he Wins, Deal with it.

We already had this debate, i don't agree with the unpredictabillity B.S...Deathstroke messing up with her Body-Reading because he can totally control his body, i can accept...but stuff like The Joker messing with her Body-Reading because he's crazy, and his body-language makes no sense, no...in my opinion, given what her Body-Reading can do, stuff like that shouldn't at all be a factor, that's like me getting drunk, and then i go pick a fight against Cass, and i beat her up, because i would be drunk, and i would be unpredictable, that just doesn't work for me.

At her best, Cass oneshoted a monster that was smacking Superboy around...and she also owned a Bizarro-Supergirl version, in Hand-to-Hand...now, of course that Cass shouldn't be able to do that...but that's exactly why we should look at the characters on average...if Vermin gets beat by people like Cap, he's not in Spider-Man's league...also, the fact that he has lost, every time that he faced a skilled fighter, also leads me to belive that Cass on average, should beat him.

I don't think you can really ignore something like this all though you want we can agree to disagree.

Yes, it has happened, but i would like to ignore it, because Cass can Body-Read someone to the point that she can know whatever move they would make next, way before they actually do it, and she's much more skilled, and way faster than the Joker...so even if being unpredictable works...Cass should still be able to dodge his attacks, even if they didn't made sense...that IMO seemed more to me, like a plot-device, for Joker to look good, than anything else...like when Tim Drake landed hits on Cass, because he wasn't using a fighting-style...like, WTF??...what has that to do with anything?...Cass can know whatver move he will do way in advance, she's far more skilled than he is, and by feats she's much faster than him...so why didn't she still stomped him?...PIS!

Untill, i see someone who is (at least) close from her, when it matters, taking advantage of unpredictably in a fight against her, i will always see these showings as plot-devices, to make the other characters look good.

The only times I recall Tim landing a strike on Cass was when they were faking, and another time when Tim tossed a batarang at random and admitted he got lucky.

It was on Robin #151 - Harder Questions it was during the time that Cass was being drugged by Slade, and during that time Cass was perfoming well below her average level, but still...Tim Drake should've been fooderized...it was PIS, not to mention that on the issue before, he oneshotted David Cain, all though, he attacked him by surprise.

QTF.

@bat_girl_cc: That's not remotely the same thing.

Of course that taking on Spider-Man its more "belivable" for a street, than talking on a kryptoninan...but if Vermin has trouble against people like Cap on a basis, then taking on Spider-Man would be PIS, in my opinion.

@zhurong: Almost as pathetic as you responding lame.