#1 Edited by nickzambuto (12639 posts) - - Show Bio

Devil May Cry 3 Vergil vs the Cyborg Ninja from Metal Gear Solid.

Vergil is equipped with Yamato and can use summon swords. Frank has the FOX Blade and Arm Cannon. They fight in an open field at dawn.

#2 Posted by Perezite (1432 posts) - - Show Bio

The Gray Fox beats Vergil and Gray Fox .

#3 Edited by JinSlayerX (129 posts) - - Show Bio

In the blink of an eye, Vergil slices GF in half with yamato

JSX

#4 Posted by niBBit (718 posts) - - Show Bio

@perezite said:

The Gray Fox beats Vergil and Gray Fox .

Hahah! everytime i see a post on the Vine or any site with the name Gray Fox i always picture him :)

#5 Posted by Perezite (1432 posts) - - Show Bio

@nibbit said:

@perezite said:

The Gray Fox beats Vergil and Gray Fox .

Hahah! everytime i see a post on the Vine or any site with the name Gray Fox i always picture him :)

Same here.

#6 Posted by nickzambuto (12639 posts) - - Show Bio

In the blink of an eye, Vergil slices GF in half with yamato

JSX

Ignorant of who Gray Fox is?

#7 Posted by saiyan_earthling (5356 posts) - - Show Bio

Definitely Vergil.

#8 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

Grey Fox Murder Stomps due to Sun Cannon Arm and 100+ ton strength.

#9 Edited by Immortal777 (6679 posts) - - Show Bio

Vergil

#10 Edited by SHAZAM117 (2465 posts) - - Show Bio

Love me some Gray Fox/Frank Yeager, but I'm thinking Vergil takes this. The Sparda Bros have some feats that are just insanity. Fox's best feats came at the end of Metal Gear Solid before Liquid killed him IIRC.

#11 Posted by Nefarious (18314 posts) - - Show Bio

Vergil.

#12 Edited by NeonGameWave (7685 posts) - - Show Bio

Both are very awesome, Vergil is my favorite DMC character while Gray Fox is my favorite MGS character, however in terms of an overall battle while it would be cool and quite the show, Vergil in the end would take it with extreme ease. He is far faster, has a greater healing factor and his sword Yamato would cut through Gray Fox`s armor easily, one Judgment Cut and its over.

#13 Posted by VThunderboltz (9 posts) - - Show Bio

Can Vergil use DT if so he takes it IMO

#14 Edited by JinSlayerX (129 posts) - - Show Bio

@jinslayerx said:

In the blink of an eye, Vergil slices GF in half with yamato

JSX

Ignorant of who Gray Fox is?

Um yes I do know who GF is and like I said Vergil would slice GF in half

JSX

#15 Posted by nickzambuto (12639 posts) - - Show Bio

Both are very awesome, Vergil is my favorite DMC character while Gray Fox is my favorite MGS character, however in terms of an overall battle while it would be cool and quite the show, Vergil in the end would take it with extreme ease. He is far faster, has a greater healing factor and his sword Yamato would cut through Gray Fox`s armor easily, one Judgment Cut and its over.

What makes you think Vergil is far faster? (Also, Yamato cutting through Frank's armor doesn't make a difference, since the FOX blade will cut Vergil's flesh just as easily)

#16 Edited by NeonGameWave (7685 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto said:

@neongamewave said:

Both are very awesome, Vergil is my favorite DMC character while Gray Fox is my favorite MGS character, however in terms of an overall battle while it would be cool and quite the show, Vergil in the end would take it with extreme ease. He is far faster, has a greater healing factor and his sword Yamato would cut through Gray Fox`s armor easily, one Judgment Cut and its over.

What makes you think Vergil is far faster? (Also, Yamato cutting through Frank's armor doesn't make a difference, since the FOX blade will cut Vergil's flesh just as easily)

Vergil is massively hypersonic and can teleport he is much faster also in terms of the rate the stamina is measured he would like his brother Dante consider to have a really good stamina rate in conjunction with his amazing speed and agility. Yamato would make quite the difference considering that it can cut through dimensions and Vergil swings it effortlessly at hypersonic speeds, the FOX blade would probably do damage but not by a considerable amount due to the fact that Vergil has an impressive healing factor, Dante`s sword Rebellion cleaved right through his abdomen but he healed quickly from the wound after as he was ignoring his fatal wounds to even challenge Mundus and on top of all that Vergil has a Devil Trigger form which would boost all of his attributes including his durability, speed and healing factor.

#17 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@neongamewave said:

@nickzambuto said:

@neongamewave said:

Both are very awesome, Vergil is my favorite DMC character while Gray Fox is my favorite MGS character, however in terms of an overall battle while it would be cool and quite the show, Vergil in the end would take it with extreme ease. He is far faster, has a greater healing factor and his sword Yamato would cut through Gray Fox`s armor easily, one Judgment Cut and its over.

What makes you think Vergil is far faster? (Also, Yamato cutting through Frank's armor doesn't make a difference, since the FOX blade will cut Vergil's flesh just as easily)

Vergil is massively hypersonic and can teleport he is much faster also in terms of the rate the stamina is measured he would like his brother Dante consider to have a really good stamina rate in conjunction with his amazing speed and agility. Yamato would make quite the difference considering that it can cut through dimensions and Vergil swings it effortlessly at hypersonic speeds, the FOX blade would probably do damage but not by a considerable amount due to the fact that Vergil has an impressive healing factor, Dante`s sword Rebellion cleaved right through his abdomen but he healed quickly from the wound after as he was ignoring his fatal wounds to even challenge Mundus and on top of all that Vergil has a Devil Trigger form which would boost all of his attributes including his durability, speed and healing factor.

LOL worng.

There is no proof of Vergils speed other than being faster than .45 bullets. Looking at Mach 1.5 to Mach 3 at best. Not Hyper sonic at all.

As for being Hyper sonic to cut through Dimensions.... really? Why not cut Dante through with it with ease? He sure did not show that ability now did he?

All Vergil has on Fox is Durability and Healing Factor.

Gray Fox has Strength (100+ tons) and Skill.

This makes Speed to close to call as Gray Fox danced around as well cut up Mach 2 to Mach 2.5 bullets with ease. So he is Mach 3 for sure.

So again Gray Fox wins due to Sun Cannon arm, Vergil cannot block that at all nor shown to recover any vaporizing attacks, and the fact Gray Fox is better skill for sure.

Seriously everyone thinks Vergil is Hypersonic, base on what solid calculable proof?! By calculations he is Mach 3 at best!

#18 Posted by nickzambuto (12639 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto said:

@neongamewave said:

Both are very awesome, Vergil is my favorite DMC character while Gray Fox is my favorite MGS character, however in terms of an overall battle while it would be cool and quite the show, Vergil in the end would take it with extreme ease. He is far faster, has a greater healing factor and his sword Yamato would cut through Gray Fox`s armor easily, one Judgment Cut and its over.

What makes you think Vergil is far faster? (Also, Yamato cutting through Frank's armor doesn't make a difference, since the FOX blade will cut Vergil's flesh just as easily)

Vergil is massively hypersonic and can teleport he is much faster also in terms of the rate the stamina is measured he would like his brother Dante consider to have a really good stamina rate in conjunction with his amazing speed and agility. Yamato would make quite the difference considering that it can cut through dimensions and Vergil swings it effortlessly at hypersonic speeds, the FOX blade would probably do damage but not by a considerable amount due to the fact that Vergil has an impressive healing factor, Dante`s sword Rebellion cleaved right through his abdomen but he healed quickly from the wound after as he was ignoring his fatal wounds to even challenge Mundus and on top of all that Vergil has a Devil Trigger form which would boost all of his attributes including his durability, speed and healing factor.

Agreed with Cadence, Vergil's reaction and combat speed isn't much faster than mach 1. Also it's not like stamina has ever been a problem for Gray Fox; Vergil did not fight Mundus immediately after Dante, he had plenty of time to recover, then got stomped and succumbed to mind control offscreen. Vergil isn't all that agile like Dante, especially in combat. He's all about power, that's why Dante is more skilled than him. Vergil literally does not have a single feat of agility, people only assume so because he's supposed to be Dante's rival. The Cyborg Ninja on the other hand, effortlessly combines his world class training and superhuman acrobatic dexterity into a completely unique fighting style, something that Vergil can neither replicate nor counter.

Yamato does not make a difference considering the FOX blade will damage Vergil just as much as Yamato does Fox. Yes he has a healing factor but that quickly loses potency after enough damage is dealt. Just ask Arkham. If anything, Gray Fox is the one with an edge in endurance. Considering Gray Fox is much more skilled, that should make all the difference.

#19 Posted by NeonGameWave (7685 posts) - - Show Bio

@neongamewave said:

@nickzambuto said:

@neongamewave said:

Both are very awesome, Vergil is my favorite DMC character while Gray Fox is my favorite MGS character, however in terms of an overall battle while it would be cool and quite the show, Vergil in the end would take it with extreme ease. He is far faster, has a greater healing factor and his sword Yamato would cut through Gray Fox`s armor easily, one Judgment Cut and its over.

What makes you think Vergil is far faster? (Also, Yamato cutting through Frank's armor doesn't make a difference, since the FOX blade will cut Vergil's flesh just as easily)

Vergil is massively hypersonic and can teleport he is much faster also in terms of the rate the stamina is measured he would like his brother Dante consider to have a really good stamina rate in conjunction with his amazing speed and agility. Yamato would make quite the difference considering that it can cut through dimensions and Vergil swings it effortlessly at hypersonic speeds, the FOX blade would probably do damage but not by a considerable amount due to the fact that Vergil has an impressive healing factor, Dante`s sword Rebellion cleaved right through his abdomen but he healed quickly from the wound after as he was ignoring his fatal wounds to even challenge Mundus and on top of all that Vergil has a Devil Trigger form which would boost all of his attributes including his durability, speed and healing factor.

LOL worng.

There is no proof of Vergils speed other than being faster than .45 bullets. Looking at Mach 1.5 to Mach 3 at best. Not Hyper sonic at all.

As for being Hyper sonic to cut through Dimensions.... really? Why not cut Dante through with it with ease? He sure did not show that ability now did he?

All Vergil has on Fox is Durability and Healing Factor.

Gray Fox has Strength (100+ tons) and Skill.

This makes Speed to close to call as Gray Fox danced around as well cut up Mach 2 to Mach 2.5 bullets with ease. So he is Mach 3 for sure.

So again Gray Fox wins due to Sun Cannon arm, Vergil cannot block that at all nor shown to recover any vaporizing attacks, and the fact Gray Fox is better skill for sure.

Seriously everyone thinks Vergil is Hypersonic, base on what solid calculable proof?! By calculations he is Mach 3 at best!

Actually it is true.

Vergil surpasses that of after images and can teleport instantly to the location he chooses, he is fast enough to react to Dante who dodges bullets close range effortlessly, can dodge and ride a rocket, shoot bullets out of the air. This is from the official in game descriptions and manuals.

Air TrickInstantaneously teleport to a spot directly near the enemy.
Level 2
Trick Up++Instantaneously teleport to a spot directly above where you were standing or jumping.
Level 3
Trick Down++Instantaneously teleport to a spot directly below where you were standing or jumping.

Yamato can cut through dimensions and its confirmed in game as well within the official manuals as well as guides, Yamato`s move-set showcases this fact. Dante has an amazing healing factor and his body`s mechanisms are powered by the same blood which is the blood of Sparda also it probably could also be a form of PIS or CIS.

ActionCommandDescription
Slash Dimension F++/++A swift motion of the blade that cuts through dimensional barriers and unleashes a vortex of destruction.
Slash Dimension C++/++A swift motion of the blade that cuts through dimensional barriers and unleashes a slicing cyclone with you at its origin.
Yamato Combo S,,/,, (ground)A lightning quick three hit combo from the legendary blade, Yamato.
Aerial Rave V,/, (mid-air)Two quick slashes that cut through the air.

Devil May Cry 3: Special Edition, Devil Arms File — Yamato: "A memento from Vergil’s father. This samurai-esque sword’s blade is said to cut through anything."

He has regeneration, speed, durability and a power up that triples that amount.

Vergil has a lot of skill.

Vergil can even cut or slice his enemies from long distances with Yamato as shown in this cutscene when he dismembered Arkham by cutting off his hand. Skip to point 0:11 - 0:30.

Vergil in his base form is extremely fast and probably way beyond Mach 2-4 with DT he would only become faster.

What will that do to Vergil? Vergil can easily teleport behind Gray Fox and kill him with a Judgement Cut also there is no proof that Gray Fox is more skilled than Vergil, Vergil could have more knowledge on the dynamics of battle and I don`t see Gray Fox being able to deal with Vergil`s summoned swords.

#20 Edited by NeonGameWave (7685 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto said:

@neongamewave said:

@nickzambuto said:

@neongamewave said:

Both are very awesome, Vergil is my favorite DMC character while Gray Fox is my favorite MGS character, however in terms of an overall battle while it would be cool and quite the show, Vergil in the end would take it with extreme ease. He is far faster, has a greater healing factor and his sword Yamato would cut through Gray Fox`s armor easily, one Judgment Cut and its over.

What makes you think Vergil is far faster? (Also, Yamato cutting through Frank's armor doesn't make a difference, since the FOX blade will cut Vergil's flesh just as easily)

Vergil is massively hypersonic and can teleport he is much faster also in terms of the rate the stamina is measured he would like his brother Dante consider to have a really good stamina rate in conjunction with his amazing speed and agility. Yamato would make quite the difference considering that it can cut through dimensions and Vergil swings it effortlessly at hypersonic speeds, the FOX blade would probably do damage but not by a considerable amount due to the fact that Vergil has an impressive healing factor, Dante`s sword Rebellion cleaved right through his abdomen but he healed quickly from the wound after as he was ignoring his fatal wounds to even challenge Mundus and on top of all that Vergil has a Devil Trigger form which would boost all of his attributes including his durability, speed and healing factor.

Agreed with Cadence, Vergil's reaction and combat speed isn't much faster than mach 1. Also it's not like stamina has ever been a problem for Gray Fox; Vergil did not fight Mundus immediately after Dante, he had plenty of time to recover, then got stomped and succumbed to mind control offscreen. Vergil isn't all that agile like Dante, especially in combat. He's all about power, that's why Dante is more skilled than him. Vergil literally does not have a single feat of agility, people only assume so because he's supposed to be Dante's rival. The Cyborg Ninja on the other hand, effortlessly combines his world class training and superhuman acrobatic dexterity into a completely unique fighting style, something that Vergil can neither replicate nor counter.

Yamato does not make a difference considering the FOX blade will damage Vergil just as much as Yamato does Fox. Yes he has a healing factor but that quickly loses potency after enough damage is dealt. Just ask Arkham. If anything, Gray Fox is the one with an edge in endurance. Considering Gray Fox is much more skilled, that should make all the difference.

I disagree, I believe Vergil moves far beyond those speeds he even can teleport instantly within his Devil Trigger form, he would definitely be moving at hypersonic speeds, Vergil was inflicted heavy wounds after a taxing fight with Dante as he then descends to the Room of the Fallen Ones and he plummeted way down to the rocky terrain. Its not about mere agility it is more a characteristic and Dante`s not exactly more skilled he might be more versatile but in terms of sheer combat ability Vergil seems to be the more proficient one and Vergil`s swordsmanship has even been compared to that of Sparda and the reason why Dante excels is because he values things that should be valued most Vergil seeks power on a one way street. Vergil is pretty much on par with Dante as evidenced in their second fight and confrontation within the manga which is canon and takes place 1 year before DMC 3, Vergil caught on quicker in regards to discovering and awakening his Devil Trigger, Vergil has a massive skill-set and combined with his supernatural prowess in power that Gray Fox cannot hope to contend with he will eventually triumph.

One slice from Yamato and Gray Fox is pretty much a goner the difference with the FOX blade is that it wouldn`t instantly kill Vergil, Vergil`s durability and regeneration was on par with DMC 3 Dante, and that says a lot considering all the things Dante endured through, being stabbed through the chest, smashed into the ground and etc doesn`t phase Dante too much, there is no proof that Gray Fox is more skilled it is only your opinion that is laying ground for it to be considered fact and I don`t see how Gray Fox would be able to compete with Vergil`s Devil Trigger or summoned swords.

#21 Posted by nickzambuto (12639 posts) - - Show Bio

@neongamewave Teleporting is a different thing from moving. There's no proof that Vergil actually FIGHTS at speeds beyond mach 1 or 2. His greatest feat is deflecting bullets from Dante, which is Gray Fox's trademark.

About the Dante comparisons, their rivalry goes a bit deeper then what you explained, and needs to be fully informed for adequate power scaling. In the DMC3 manga, Vergil defeated Dante. Vergil also defeated Dante in their confrontation on top of the Temen-Ni-Gru. That's because Vergil was much stronger than Dante; just like you said, Vergil caught on quicker to awakening his demonic power. After Rebellion came into contact with Dante's blood and he activated his latent demon power (hence "Dante's Awakening"), he and Vergil were equals (they stalemated before Arkham interrupted). Then, finally, Dante was inspired by Lady and actively sought to protect, rather than destroy as most demons (including Vergil) lived to do. This good will is what finally put him over Vergil (it's also what made Sparda so powerful in the first place). Dante has always been a superior swordsman to Vergil; he has drive and fights with quickness and precision. Vergil is just about power (this is reflected on numerous occasions; for example when they tag team against Arkham, Dante's agile roundhouse kick is met with a simple palm thrust from Vergil. Just compare the scene of Vergil fighting the Abyss to Dante fighting the Hell Pride. Dante is about versatility, precision, and reaction; all elements of skill. Whoever knows more swordsmen maneuvers, well that's up for argument. I don't think either of them ever received actual training from anybody) Dante laughed at his father's swordsmanship, so Vergil being compared to Sparda doesn't prove anything. As I said Vergil's goal was power power power, he does not have anywhere near the level of artistry that Dante possesses. It's actually said that Dante inherited Sparda's style while Vergil his coldness.

Now that that's out of the way, I can go on to explain why Gray Fox is a superior samurai. You said there's no proof of that; well yes that's true, Vergil and Gray Fox have never met so there is no direct comparison of their skills. However, wouldn't that line of thinking nullify the entire point of this website? Gray Fox's feats include more obvious technique and talent then Vergil's flash and flare.

Like I mentioned, deflecting bullets is Frank Jaeger's trademark, something he's been doing since he was a teenager. Do you realize how difficult it is to cut an object the size of a bullet in half with a sword? Let alone when it's rocketing towards you at over 1000 feet per second! That's all precision and reaction time there, the two most important traits of a samurai. Vergil can deflect bullets too, but that was through speed, not talent. He spun his sword fast enough to create an impenetrable shield. Frank Jaeger, as a human teenager, literally positioned his sword to cut bullets in half mid-flight. And that's from a marksman of Big Boss's caliber! The two had an extended battle where the greatest soldier of the twentieth century could not land a hit, no matter how many volleys of bullets he fired.

Null could even defend against multiple marksman at a time, all using fully automatic weaponry.

Just FTR, Gray Fox could easily replicate Vergil's speed feat of blocking bullets, after he had become a cyborg.

However, it's more impressive as a swordsman to have the skill to see a bullet's path and intercept it midflight.

Precision and reaction time are both things Gray Fox has possessed in bulk while human. The other half of swordsmanship, discipline and technique, bar none Vergil can not compete. Most of what he does is through his powers advanced perception and demon magic make him seem extremely skilled, but the guy has never had a day of training in his life. He's just making stuff up as he goes. Compared to Gray Fox, called the greatest mercenary in the entire world, host of a plethora of advanced swordsman maneuvers and pitch perfect technique. Even as a pubescent child soldier, Frank Jaeger had the instinct and brutality to kill dozens of armed commandoes at a time, with merely a single knife. His combat skill was so great, in fact, that he was deemed worthy of induction to the perfect soldier program, being the only test subject to survive.

2:40-4:05 At this point, Frank's grueling government training began; emotion suppressors, no free will - he literally had his mind wiped after every mission, so that the only thing taking up space in his brain would be combat techniques. Nothing else to distract him from being the ultimate warrior. Very much like Cassandra Cain. He can read and predict enemy movements and counter nearly any offense.

Decades later, Fox would receive further instruction from numerous notorious war veterans, and would go on to become the top agent of FOXHOUND, the most elite black ops agency in the world of Metal Gear. That's top tier training, combined with extensive gene therapy, VR simulations, and soldier genes up the wazoo. If you pay attention to Gray Fox's fight scenes, he shows a lot of advanced knowledge on actual techniques that Vergil would have no way of knowing.

There's also the fact that Gray Fox is a helluva lot more agile than Vergil, which has everything to do with skill. Oh, and stealth camouflage. Vergil can't fight what he can't see. Does the Son of Sparda use thermal goggles as part of his standard equipment like Solid Snake does?

#22 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@neongamewave: I disagree with alot of this. Sure it can cut Dimensions, but again fails to do so vs Dante.

The Devil Trigger in play is a huge factor, however without it, Vergil is beaten. The Devil Trigger is nothing short of Spite in the case it can be used.

#23 Edited by NeonGameWave (7685 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2 said:

@neongamewave: I disagree with alot of this. Sure it can cut Dimensions, but again fails to do so vs Dante.

The Devil Trigger in play is a huge factor, however without it, Vergil is beaten. The Devil Trigger is nothing short of Spite in the case it can be used.

I think we are going to have to agree to disagree, however the blade does cut through dimensions as shown with the Judgment Cut ability also the fact that it separates two different world and holds great power.

Vergil can win without his Devil Trigger form.

#24 Edited by NeonGameWave (7685 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto said:

@neongamewave Teleporting is a different thing from moving. There's no proof that Vergil actually FIGHTS at speeds beyond mach 1 or 2. His greatest feat is deflecting bullets from Dante, which is Gray Fox's trademark.

About the Dante comparisons, their rivalry goes a bit deeper then what you explained, and needs to be fully informed for adequate power scaling. In the DMC3 manga, Vergil defeated Dante. Vergil also defeated Dante in their confrontation on top of the Temen-Ni-Gru. That's because Vergil was much stronger than Dante; just like you said, Vergil caught on quicker to awakening his demonic power. After Rebellion came into contact with Dante's blood and he activated his latent demon power (hence "Dante's Awakening"), he and Vergil were equals (they stalemated before Arkham interrupted). Then, finally, Dante was inspired by Lady and actively sought to protect, rather than destroy as most demons (including Vergil) lived to do. This good will is what finally put him over Vergil (it's also what made Sparda so powerful in the first place). Dante has always been a superior swordsman to Vergil; he has drive and fights with quickness and precision. Vergil is just about power (this is reflected on numerous occasions; for example when they tag team against Arkham, Dante's agile roundhouse kick is met with a simple palm thrust from Vergil. Just compare the scene of Vergil fighting the Abyss to Dante fighting the Hell Pride. Dante is about versatility, precision, and reaction; all elements of skill. Whoever knows more swordsmen maneuvers, well that's up for argument. I don't think either of them ever received actual training from anybody) Dante laughed at his father's swordsmanship, so Vergil being compared to Sparda doesn't prove anything. As I said Vergil's goal was power power power, he does not have anywhere near the level of artistry that Dante possesses. It's actually said that Dante inherited Sparda's style while Vergil his coldness.

Now that that's out of the way, I can go on to explain why Gray Fox is a superior samurai. You said there's no proof of that; well yes that's true, Vergil and Gray Fox have never met so there is no direct comparison of their skills. However, wouldn't that line of thinking nullify the entire point of this website? Gray Fox's feats include more obvious technique and talent then Vergil's flash and flare.

Like I mentioned, deflecting bullets is Frank Jaeger's trademark, something he's been doing since he was a teenager. Do you realize how difficult it is to cut an object the size of a bullet in half with a sword? Let alone when it's rocketing towards you at over 1000 feet per second! That's all precision and reaction time there, the two most important traits of a samurai. Vergil can deflect bullets too, but that was through speed, not talent. He spun his sword fast enough to create an impenetrable shield. Frank Jaeger, as a human teenager, literally positioned his sword to cut bullets in half mid-flight. And that's from a marksman of Big Boss's caliber! The two had an extended battle where the greatest soldier of the twentieth century could not land a hit, no matter how many volleys of bullets he fired.

Null could even defend against multiple marksman at a time, all using fully automatic weaponry.

Just FTR, Gray Fox could easily replicate Vergil's speed feat of blocking bullets, after he had become a cyborg.

However, it's more impressive as a swordsman to have the skill to see a bullet's path and intercept it midflight.

Precision and reaction time are both things Gray Fox has possessed in bulk while human. The other half of swordsmanship, discipline and technique, bar none Vergil can not compete. Most of what he does is through his powers advanced perception and demon magic make him seem extremely skilled, but the guy has never had a day of training in his life. He's just making stuff up as he goes. Compared to Gray Fox, called the greatest mercenary in the entire world, host of a plethora of advanced swordsman maneuvers and pitch perfect technique. Even as a pubescent child soldier, Frank Jaeger had the instinct and brutality to kill dozens of armed commandoes at a time, with merely a single knife. His combat skill was so great, in fact, that he was deemed worthy of induction to the perfect soldier program, being the only test subject to survive.

2:40-4:05 At this point, Frank's grueling government training began; emotion suppressors, no free will - he literally had his mind wiped after every mission, so that the only thing taking up space in his brain would be combat techniques. Nothing else to distract him from being the ultimate warrior. Very much like Cassandra Cain. He can read and predict enemy movements and counter nearly any offense.

Decades later, Fox would receive further instruction from numerous notorious war veterans, and would go on to become the top agent of FOXHOUND, the most elite black ops agency in the world of Metal Gear. That's top tier training, combined with extensive gene therapy, VR simulations, and soldier genes up the wazoo. If you pay attention to Gray Fox's fight scenes, he shows a lot of advanced knowledge on actual techniques that Vergil would have no way of knowing.

There's also the fact that Gray Fox is a helluva lot more agile than Vergil, which has everything to do with skill. Oh, and stealth camouflage. Vergil can't fight what he can't see. Does the Son of Sparda use thermal goggles as part of his standard equipment like Solid Snake does?

I know that but you have to consider and factor in the fact that Vergil in his Devil Trigger form would be able to approach hypersonic speeds due to an accelerated increase in attributive power, also his senses are inhumanly incomprehensible to that of Gray Fox, Gray wouldn`t know what to expect. Vergil is able to react, combat and evade Dante who shoots bullets out of the air close range, is faster than that of what they eye can see, moves faster than after images which roughly range in the category of descriptive measure for supersonic speed and Dante even can ride a rocket, I believe Vergil can replicate these feats if he really wanted to being in Devil Trigger form would only triple that potential, I`m pretty sure Vergil moves at hypersonic speeds furthering this fact is the general consensus of hypersonic speed being reached at Mach 5, I have Devil May Cry 3: Special Edition and I`m pretty sure based on a thorough analysis that Dante moves at speeds that reach faster than Mach 3 being in Devil Trigger form would amplify his speed greatly and he would be at Mach 5, Vergil is pretty much Dante`s equal in speed, reflexes and senses being able to teleport just gives Vergil the overall greater advantage.

Dante`s skill more so focuses around artistic and stylistic integration of a weaponized skill-set. Everything you have mentioned in regards to Vergil and Dante further proves my point also digging into grounds such as this doesn`t really highlight your points on skill but it rather highlights your points on history in regards to their overall power. Dante would be more creative and outlandish with his skillfulness, however Vergil has more insight as well as gracefulness in the wielding of his sword Yamato also there is a more so established connection between Vergil and his sword in comparison to Dante and his sword Rebellion. Vergil is a swordsman at heart and wanting to crave power doesn`t negate or nullify that point but rather expands the ideas as well as characteristics surrounding Vergil`s complex character, Vergil didn`t simply want power he wanted power to protect. The reason why he was motivated to achieve power was because his mother died and he wasn`t strong enough to protect her from the onslaught whence he was young, power doesn`t affect or prove detrimental to his skills and gifts when in utilizing weapons such as Yamato. It does prove something considering Sparda was best in the Demon World n regards to pure skill and swordsmanship although Dante did mock the idea it doesn`t change or hinder the significance of how the implications impact Vergil.

You need to prove your claims that is the main point in which I am trying to convey not more so going against the purpose of the site itself or thinking out of commonsensical reasoning.

Those are really cool feats but it doesn`t actually prove that he has more skill than Vergil he might be a bit more agile and delicate in his movements but it doesn`t prove he is more skilled also it doesn`t prove why he would be able to win this match considering it wouldn`t be able to compete with Vergil`s teleport ability, summoned swords and etc.

These summoned blades would lock on to Gray Fox no matter the location and Vergil can launch them at any given time within any given moment they are really useful projectiles, Vergil can battle Gray Fox while summoning these blades so it would not only keep Gray Fox on his toes but it would also overpower him to the point where he would run out of options.

Vergil in an instant based on his senses and alert mind cleaves Beowulf`s head in two, he reacts at really good speeds and Beowulf is a high tier demon who has a great sense of smell and possesses an overall atmospheric sense.

Vergil`s Judgment Cut can cut through dimensions and dimensional barriers, one hit which Vergil surely can provide along with multiple after the following would end Gray Fox.

At point 3:25 - 3:28, it is shown that Vergil and Dante are able to react fast enough to an incoming missile also its important to notice that their not even paying too much attention to the actual object but are rather still engaged in battle, supernatural senses>>>>human, cyborg or superhuman senses. Even if Gray Fox were to be more skilled it wouldn`t guarantee him a victory over an opponent who is more versatile and has greater durability as well as regenerative abilities, Vergil has long range attacks, can teleport move at hypersonic speeds and on top of that has a Devil Trigger form, has Gray Fox ever fought a being who can teleport instantly?

#25 Posted by nickzambuto (12639 posts) - - Show Bio

I know that but you have to consider and factor in the fact that Vergil in his Devil Trigger form would be able to approach hypersonic speeds due to an accelerated increase in attributive power,

Devil Trigger is just an enhanced form that increases Vergil's power to an unquantifiable amount. DT isn't enough to win when Vergil is so majorly outmatched in human form, especially considering it only lasts a solid five seconds.

also his senses are inhumanly incomprehensible to that of Gray Fox, Gray wouldn`t know what to expect.

What? Gray Fox's 5 natural senses are extremely acute too, and his cyborg augmentations only enhanced them, if that's what you're arguing about.

Vergil is able to react, combat and evade Dante who shoots bullets out of the air close range, is faster than that of what they eye can see, moves faster than after images which roughly range in the category of descriptive measure for supersonic speed and Dante even can ride a rocket, I believe Vergil can replicate these feats if he really wanted to being in Devil Trigger form would only triple that potential, I`m pretty sure Vergil moves at hypersonic speeds furthering this fact is the general consensus of hypersonic speed being reached at Mach 5, I have Devil May Cry 3: Special Edition and I`m pretty sure based on a thorough analysis that Dante moves at speeds that reach faster than Mach 3 being in Devil Trigger form would amplify his speed greatly and he would be at Mach 5, Vergil is pretty much Dante`s equal in speed, reflexes and senses being able to teleport just gives Vergil the overall greater advantage.

The thing about Vergil is, his most noteworthy accomplishments come from feats DANTE performed, not him. All these things you listed about Dante that we assume Vergil can replicate, are things Gray Fox has actually done himself. To be more accurate, he did most of those things as a human. The only thing possibly out of his range is shooting bullets out of the air, but that was at close range so it's more of an accuracy feat (Dante just had to point his guns at the guns of his attacker). And what does moving faster than an after image mean? After images are left when a character moves so fast that our eyes can just barely process their movement. So moving faster than an after image is just moving faster than the eye can see.

I've played the shit out of DMC3 too, (notice the icon?) but without adequate feats, we can't assume a character is at a certain power level just through bias. And also Dante ended up beating Vergil. If you want to talk about rivals, Frank Jaeger could outpace Big Boss as a teenager. Big Boss is of course the genetically superior legendary super soldier whose legacy has gone down in history as the most skilled fighter to ever walk the planet. The guy is a casual bullet timer and can dodge lightning.

Dante`s skill more so focuses around artistic and stylistic integration of a weaponized skill-set. Everything you have mentioned in regards to Vergil and Dante further proves my point also digging into grounds such as this doesn`t really highlight your points on skill but it rather highlights your points on history in regards to their overall power. Dante would be more creative and outlandish with his skillfulness, however Vergil has more insight as well as gracefulness in the wielding of his sword Yamato also there is a more so established connection between Vergil and his sword in comparison to Dante and his sword Rebellion. Vergil is a swordsman at heart and wanting to crave power doesn`t negate or nullify that point but rather expands the ideas as well as characteristics surrounding Vergil`s complex character, Vergil didn`t simply want power he wanted power to protect. The reason why he was motivated to achieve power was because his mother died and he wasn`t strong enough to protect her from the onslaught whence he was young, power doesn`t affect or prove detrimental to his skills and gifts when in utilizing weapons such as Yamato. It does prove something considering Sparda was best in the Demon World n regards to pure skill and swordsmanship although Dante did mock the idea it doesn`t change or hinder the significance of how the implications impact Vergil.

The bottom line is that Dante beat Vergil; what more could prove superior skill than actually winning?

I also don't see why these summoned swords are such a big deal. Vergil throws them at snail speeds and they probably won't even break through Gray Fox's armor. What are you thinking they're gonna do?

Vergil in an instant based on his senses and alert mind cleaves Beowulf`s head in two, he reacts at really good speeds and Beowulf is a high tier demon who has a great sense of smell and possesses an overall atmospheric sense.

Considering Beowulf snuck up on Vergil that's not really a good feat of senses. Beowulf was also blind.

Vergil`s Judgment Cut can cut through dimensions and dimensional barriers, one hit which Vergil surely can provide along with multiple after the following would end Gray Fox.

I'm not doubting Yamato's ability to cut through the Cyborg Ninja's exoskeleton. What I'm doubting is how a slower, less experienced samurai with zero training, who goes off emotional impulses and relies on might over everything, is going to so easily cut the greatest swordsman in the world in half. And what's this about Vergil being more versatile? Frank Jaeger is one of the most highly regarded soldiers and mercenaries on his planet, who has been trained extensively in all ways of infiltration, espionage, and combat. He is well versed in both over and underhand swordplay, giving him much more maneuverability and often catching opponents off guard, and is a master with not only virtually every form of bladed weapon, but also unarmed combat and gunplay. Gray Fox can switch things up between guns, swords, and stealth as often as he wants, whereas Vergil is pretty limited.

The Ninja has shown no qualms about using his stealth camouflage against opponents infinitely weaker than himself; with Frank's stealth training, Vergil will have no way of tracking his opponent. Gray Fox can stomp pretty easily that way.

His exoskeleton possesses an arm-mounted laser cannon which fires rapid shot energy blasts easily strong enough to vaporize Vergil. Gray Fox is a skilled muscle reader and can predict his enemies' movements, not to mention his uncanny ability to traverse any terrain at incredible speeds; with these things in mind he can keep things at a distance and just pelt Vergil with a barrage of energy beams. He can't dodge from a marksman as skilled as Frank Jaeger forever. Gray Fox is both more agile than Vergil, and his ranged attack moves faster than Vergil's and at higher rates, giving him quite a steep advantage in that department.

If Frank is in a good mood, he might take his opponent on cyborg-to-demon, sword combat. Now, Gray Fox truly has every advantage, this isn't really arguable. He's much higher trained, and the best Vergil can hope for in speed is a tie. Gray Fox can quite literally beat Vergil to death with his 100-ton strength. How can Vergil stop himself from being disarmed of his sword and left defenseless? Gray Fox is stronger, and his technique is on a higher level, those are the only two things needed to snatch Vergil's sword away. What can Vergil possibly do to stop that when his strength is so dismal in comparison? I like Vergil (which is why I made this thread) but there is honestly no way for him to beat a true warrior like Frank Jaeger, demon or no.

@neongamewave

#26 Edited by NeonGameWave (7685 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto said:

I know that but you have to consider and factor in the fact that Vergil in his Devil Trigger form would be able to approach hypersonic speeds due to an accelerated increase in attributive power,

Devil Trigger is just an enhanced form that increases Vergil's power to an unquantifiable amount. DT isn't enough to win when Vergil is so majorly outmatched in human form, especially considering it only lasts a solid five seconds.

also his senses are inhumanly incomprehensible to that of Gray Fox, Gray wouldn`t know what to expect.

What? Gray Fox's 5 natural senses are extremely acute too, and his cyborg augmentations only enhanced them, if that's what you're arguing about.

Vergil is able to react, combat and evade Dante who shoots bullets out of the air close range, is faster than that of what they eye can see, moves faster than after images which roughly range in the category of descriptive measure for supersonic speed and Dante even can ride a rocket, I believe Vergil can replicate these feats if he really wanted to being in Devil Trigger form would only triple that potential, I`m pretty sure Vergil moves at hypersonic speeds furthering this fact is the general consensus of hypersonic speed being reached at Mach 5, I have Devil May Cry 3: Special Edition and I`m pretty sure based on a thorough analysis that Dante moves at speeds that reach faster than Mach 3 being in Devil Trigger form would amplify his speed greatly and he would be at Mach 5, Vergil is pretty much Dante`s equal in speed, reflexes and senses being able to teleport just gives Vergil the overall greater advantage.

The thing about Vergil is, his most noteworthy accomplishments come from feats DANTE performed, not him. All these things you listed about Dante that we assume Vergil can replicate, are things Gray Fox has actually done himself. To be more accurate, he did most of those things as a human. The only thing possibly out of his range is shooting bullets out of the air, but that was at close range so it's more of an accuracy feat (Dante just had to point his guns at the guns of his attacker). And what does moving faster than an after image mean? After images are left when a character moves so fast that our eyes can just barely process their movement. So moving faster than an after image is just moving faster than the eye can see.

I've played the shit out of DMC3 too, (notice the icon?) but without adequate feats, we can't assume a character is at a certain power level just through bias. And also Dante ended up beating Vergil. If you want to talk about rivals, Frank Jaeger could outpace Big Boss as a teenager. Big Boss is of course the genetically superior legendary super soldier whose legacy has gone down in history as the most skilled fighter to ever walk the planet. The guy is a casual bullet timer and can dodge lightning.

Dante`s skill more so focuses around artistic and stylistic integration of a weaponized skill-set. Everything you have mentioned in regards to Vergil and Dante further proves my point also digging into grounds such as this doesn`t really highlight your points on skill but it rather highlights your points on history in regards to their overall power. Dante would be more creative and outlandish with his skillfulness, however Vergil has more insight as well as gracefulness in the wielding of his sword Yamato also there is a more so established connection between Vergil and his sword in comparison to Dante and his sword Rebellion. Vergil is a swordsman at heart and wanting to crave power doesn`t negate or nullify that point but rather expands the ideas as well as characteristics surrounding Vergil`s complex character, Vergil didn`t simply want power he wanted power to protect. The reason why he was motivated to achieve power was because his mother died and he wasn`t strong enough to protect her from the onslaught whence he was young, power doesn`t affect or prove detrimental to his skills and gifts when in utilizing weapons such as Yamato. It does prove something considering Sparda was best in the Demon World n regards to pure skill and swordsmanship although Dante did mock the idea it doesn`t change or hinder the significance of how the implications impact Vergil.

The bottom line is that Dante beat Vergil; what more could prove superior skill than actually winning?

I also don't see why these summoned swords are such a big deal. Vergil throws them at snail speeds and they probably won't even break through Gray Fox's armor. What are you thinking they're gonna do?

Vergil in an instant based on his senses and alert mind cleaves Beowulf`s head in two, he reacts at really good speeds and Beowulf is a high tier demon who has a great sense of smell and possesses an overall atmospheric sense.

Considering Beowulf snuck up on Vergil that's not really a good feat of senses. Beowulf was also blind.

Vergil`s Judgment Cut can cut through dimensions and dimensional barriers, one hit which Vergil surely can provide along with multiple after the following would end Gray Fox.

I'm not doubting Yamato's ability to cut through the Cyborg Ninja's exoskeleton. What I'm doubting is how a slower, less experienced samurai with zero training, who goes off emotional impulses and relies on might over everything, is going to so easily cut the greatest swordsman in the world in half. And what's this about Vergil being more versatile? Frank Jaeger is one of the most highly regarded soldiers and mercenaries on his planet, who has been trained extensively in all ways of infiltration, espionage, and combat. He is well versed in both over and underhand swordplay, giving him much more maneuverability and often catching opponents off guard, and is a master with not only virtually every form of bladed weapon, but also unarmed combat and gunplay. Gray Fox can switch things up between guns, swords, and stealth as often as he wants, whereas Vergil is pretty limited.

The Ninja has shown no qualms about using his stealth camouflage against opponents infinitely weaker than himself; with Frank's stealth training, Vergil will have no way of tracking his opponent. Gray Fox can stomp pretty easily that way.

His exoskeleton possesses an arm-mounted laser cannon which fires rapid shot energy blasts easily strong enough to vaporize Vergil. Gray Fox is a skilled muscle reader and can predict his enemies' movements, not to mention his uncanny ability to traverse any terrain at incredible speeds; with these things in mind he can keep things at a distance and just pelt Vergil with a barrage of energy beams. He can't dodge from a marksman as skilled as Frank Jaeger forever. Gray Fox is both more agile than Vergil, and his ranged attack moves faster than Vergil's and at higher rates, giving him quite a steep advantage in that department.

If Frank is in a good mood, he might take his opponent on cyborg-to-demon, sword combat. Now, Gray Fox truly has every advantage, this isn't really arguable. He's much higher trained, and the best Vergil can hope for in speed is a tie. Gray Fox can quite literally beat Vergil to death with his 100-ton strength. How can Vergil stop himself from being disarmed of his sword and left defenseless? Gray Fox is stronger, and his technique is on a higher level, those are the only two things needed to snatch Vergil's sword away. What can Vergil possibly do to stop that when his strength is so dismal in comparison? I like Vergil (which is why I made this thread) but there is honestly no way for him to beat a true warrior like Frank Jaeger, demon or no.

@neongamewave

False. In actuality it increases all aspects and attributes of the activator, Vergil would be faster, stronger, more agile and alert in regards to his surroundings it also increases his healing factor as well, by gameplay mechanics it doesn`t even last five seconds it`s far longer than that number or measurable amount of time its restricted by gameplay mechanics which this match wouldn`t need or have. Vergil stomps Gray Fox without the DT, he can summon multiple swords simultaneously while slashing away with Judgment Cuts on top of all that he can teleport.

That is a good point but I doubt it matches Vergil who can sense individuals from far away distances and predict occurring moves while within a burst of speed also Vergil is able to compete with Dante who excels in the areas of reflex, reaction time and atmospheric sense.

Partially true, however it doesn`t change the facts that were stated Vergil more than likely can replicate those feats or even perform with more sheer skill, its not merely an accuracy feat when Dante is moving at certain speeds and reacting at the same time also to shoot the multiple pool balls with such accuracy would have to factor in his precise mindset in which it would require geometrical depth to understand what Dante has just performed. That is true but you missed the main and most important essence which is moving faster than an after image or what the eye can see would definitely be classified as something moving faster than what the individual`s mind could process ultimately leading above supersonic ranges of speed also Vergil can definitely move faster while in his Devil Trigger form its only logical.

I notice the icon and I respect that, although its DMC 4 Dante, I have every Devil May Cry game and read the manga as well as watched the anime in its entirety. There is no bias being integrated or implemented into this debate its only by assumption that this bias is being made notice, also Dante beating Vergil isn`t a low showing or erroneous event and this has nothing to do with rivals that is deviating as well as derailing from the discussion at hand in countermeasure by my stance that would be the true link to an encompassing bias based on what you mentioned earlier, Dante can dodge bullets as well and has done so with ease, he also can dodge lightning so can Vergil.

Winning doesn`t always determine or define skill. The losing of Vergil more so occurred to Dante awakening his supernatural power and rising to the occasion of having greater prowess within progress he didn`t immediately beat Vergil, its not about sheer skill its about determination. Dante was fighting for a greater and more motivational purpose than Vergil was which led to Vergil`s downfall, by your logic Ichigo overpowering and succeeding against Aizen would only mean he is that much more skilled.

Falsely phrased and stated. I have the game and I play as Vergil a lot his summoned swords shouldn`t compared or referenced to that of the speed of a snail the problem and the point you seem to be underestimating is the fact that these swords are continuous and can shoot from different angles also Vergil can use them as shields as he can also fight while utilizing them also you cannot guarantee that they won`t break through Gray Fox`s armor even if you were to be right it doesn`t change the fact that they can serve as an distraction while Vergil prepares Judgement Cuts also if your not aware Vergil can actually slash and harm his opponents from long range distances as an example would be when he cut off Arkham`s hand before it reached Dante, Vergil was standing on a higher platform from an considerable distance another good example would be when Dante in the form of a projectile based slash cuts the main and last Hell Gate in half.

It is and you took the scene out of context, Beowulf did not sneak up on Vergil he attacked when Vergil was paying attention and he used his reflexes as well as senses to respond to the attack it doesn`t matter if Beowulf was blind if Dante can dodge him so can Vergil also Beowulf has an atmospheric sense anyway and has a great sense of smell so that point is pointless.

That is illogical considering the status you rate Gray Fox in regards to underestimating Vergil`s skill in responsive comparison, Vergil is faster and can teleport while summoning projectiles that fire at a repetitive rate how will it be too difficult when Dante himself has trouble? I understand your point but that is regarded within Gray Fox`s universe if Vergil was within the MGS universe things would be extremely different same goes for Gray Fox going to the DMC universe, Vergil has seen and fought worse. Vergil is more versatile, he can fire summoned swords, has his own fighting style and stance also he has Devil Trigger, Judgment Cut, teleportation he can do more it has nothing to do with history or accomplishments its the actual feats and abilities that matter. What arm knives, daggers, guns and mechanized swords going to do Vergil? Like he hasn`t gone up against worse, Dante`s sword Rebellion couldn`t even put him down and he can fight for hours without end also Gray Fox is the limited one considering most of his efforts wouldn`t work, a Judgement Cut would kill Gray Fox on the spot and also Gray Fox has no answer or counter for Vergil`s teleportation ability. Also his summoned swords are magically supplemented meaning they generate from a form of powerful magic as confirmed within the official manuals and guides within the game.

ActionCommandDescription
Summoned SwordsHurl magically generated swords at the enemy.
Spiral Swords(hold)Create a barrier of countless swords which surround and protect you.
Sword Storm++(Spiral Swords)Fire out swords at the enemy after executing a Spiral Swords maneuver. The swords surround an enemy then fire all at once.
Blistering Swords++(Spiral Swords)Fire out swords in rapid succession at an enemy after executing a Spiral Swords maneuver.

What? Vergil has a supernatural atmospheric sense he would be able to track him easily, and what`s stop Vergil from speedblitzing with teleportation? Vergil can track him through sound if weaker opponents who are not even powered by the supernatural can do it then so can a powerful half demon like Vergil also how would he stomp him? Vergil would curbstomp Gray Fox with one Judgment Cut and Gray Fox cannot even kill Vergil once he goes into his Devil Trigger form, Gray Fox on the other hand wouldn`t be able to handle a single Judgement Cut.

There is no proof that it would be able to vaporize Vergil, Vergil can dodge the cannon easily with his speed or teleportation also he could slice through the cannon beams with Judgment Cut and I don`t think Gray Fox would be able to survive multiple Judgment Cut Spheres which appear everywhere from top to bottom. Vergil can also read movements and sense auras in part with his atmospheric sense and none of that would matter considering Vergil could just teleport instantly before Gray Fox could even make a move and then its all over. Vergil has many options he could block the energy beams with a barrage of summoned swords, cut them with Judgment Cut, teleport away from the blasts or just simply use his incredible speed to outpace them and Vergil doesn`t need to dodge he could easily just teleport beside Gray Fox and cut him to pieces with Yamato you seem to be ignoring his teleport ability which Gray Fox wouldn`t be able to outmaneuver regardless of how skilled he is or agile.

Now this sounds pretty biased to me. Vergil self taught himself from an early age, Rebellion and Yamato were left as gifts or keepsakes from their father Sparda since then they have mastered their weapons through their own ways, styles, codes and views on top of that Vergil has a connection with his sword he`s a true swordsman at heart similar to that of a samurai something he is compared to quite often. Really? 100 ton strength? Beowulf smashed Dante into the ground and Dante brushed it off, Vergil would be able to do the same if not better since he developed quicker and understand how to tap into his demonic blood with more efficiency also how is Gray Fox exactly going to be able to reach Vergil in order for there to be a disarming? Vergil can teleport and is quicker also why would Vergil let Gray Fox get that closed to him? He would have summoned swords all around him acting as shields also he would just teleport beside Gray Fox and kill him with Yamato, there is no proof that Gray Fox is more skilled, faster or stronger than Vergil. Its a fact that Vergil can do more and is ultimately far more dangerous he can teleport, summon mystical swords that can pierce many things and he has a greater healing factor also if you made this thread for that reason then what is the point of this thread other than it being an issue? I like Vergil too and I like Gray Fox as well, as I know for a fact that Vergil would curbstomp him easily, this is unfair for both sides you only made this because of your fondness for Vergil but you even admit he doesn`t stand a chance, for the creator of the thread to have a winner in mind is pretty much against the rules, the most logical reason would be to inspire answers out of the ones attending and debating the thread such as myself but if that were true you wouldn`t have admitted a winner which is what I stand by in all validity as I rest my case.

#27 Posted by nickzambuto (12639 posts) - - Show Bio

@neongamewave

False. In actuality it increases all aspects and attributes of the activator, Vergil would be faster, stronger, more agile and alert in regards to his surroundings it also increases his healing factor as well, by gameplay mechanics it doesn`t even last five seconds it`s far longer than that number or measurable amount of time its restricted by gameplay mechanics which this match wouldn`t need or have. Vergil stomps Gray Fox without the DT, he can summon multiple swords simultaneously while slashing away with Judgment Cuts on top of all that he can teleport.

Obviously devil trigger increases Vergil's stats, I never argued it doesn't. My point was that it increases them an unquantifiable amount, so we can't act like Vergil can suddenly beat a character who he's majorly outclassed by, just by going DT.

"Stomp" is a bold word. I highly doubt either combatant in this match will be getting "stomped". You act like Vergil has feats that place him on an entirely different pedestal than the Cyborg Ninja, when in actuality his only advantage to speak of is his regen. The more I think about it, Vamp seems like a more even match for Vergil than Gray Fox.

That is a good point but I doubt it matches Vergil who can sense individuals from far away distances and predict occurring moves while within a burst of speed

When has he ever done any of this?

also Vergil is able to compete with Dante who excels in the areas of reflex, reaction time and atmospheric sense.

So does Gray Fox, so that's a moot point. Saying Vergil can "compete" with a character who has impressive feats, without actually having accomplished those feats himself, is not enough to say he can beat an opponent who HAS accomplished those feats, AKA Gray Fox.

It's pretty simple logic. Vergil's greatest feat is fighting, and losing, to Dante. If Gray Fox has done everything Dante can do and more (at least in DMC3) then he can ALSO beat Vergil.

That is true but you missed the main and most important essence which is moving faster than an after image or what the eye can see would definitely be classified as something moving faster than what the individual`s mind could process ultimately leading above supersonic ranges of speed also Vergil can definitely move faster while in his Devil Trigger form its only logical.

It doesn't matter if Vergil can do that because Gray Fox has too.

I notice the icon and I respect that, although its DMC 4 Dante, I have every Devil May Cry game and read the manga as well as watched the anime in its entirety. There is no bias being integrated or implemented into this debate its only by assumption that this bias is being made notice

I have too. I love Devil May Cry, if I think about it, it's probably my second favorite video game franchise, usurped only by, yes, Metal Gear.

I think we all have a little bias in us towards our favorite characters, assuming they can accomplish certain feats when they've only been implied to be at such a power level. My main point for Gray Fox beating Vergil, is that ignoring power scaling and in-game implications, his on-screen feats surpass what Vergil has done.

Winning doesn`t always determine or define skill. The losing of Vergil more so occurred to Dante awakening his supernatural power and rising to the occasion of having greater prowess within progress he didn`t immediately beat Vergil, its not about sheer skill its about determination. Dante was fighting for a greater and more motivational purpose than Vergil was which led to Vergil`s downfall, by your logic Ichigo overpowering and succeeding against Aizen would only mean he is that much more skilled.

They're brothers and rivals in power. Dante winning implies that he finally surpassed his brother, which had been the goal throughout the entire game, in every aspect. It's heavily implied that they had become equals in power, so the only way for Dante to win would be through determination and skill (determination has a big effect on skill).

I'll ask this: throughout the entire franchise, what proof has there ever been that Vergil is a better swordsman than Dante?

Falsely phrased and stated. I have the game and I play as Vergil a lot his summoned swords shouldn`t compared or referenced to that of the speed of a snail the problem and the point you seem to be underestimating is the fact that these swords are continuous and can shoot from different angles also Vergil can use them as shields as he can also fight while utilizing them also you cannot guarantee that they won`t break through Gray Fox`s armor even if you were to be right it doesn`t change the fact that they can serve as an distraction while Vergil prepares Judgement Cuts

Obviously it was a hyperbole when I said they move at snail speed. My point was that they are a far cry from bullets, things that move in slow motion to a cyborg's perception. Dante easily avoided them, why can't Gray Fox? The swords don't track their target, once they're fired, they are on a set path, so timing them shouldn't prove too difficult. Honestly the summoned swords should not be any problem at all for Gray Fox, you act like they are going to completely overwhelm him when in reality, they should be avoided or parried pretty easily.

also if your not aware Vergil can actually slash and harm his opponents from long range distances as an example would be when he cut off Arkham`s hand before it reached Dante, Vergil was standing on a higher platform from an considerable distance another good example would be when Dante in the form of a projectile based slash cuts the main and last Hell Gate in half.

Most high frequency blades have the same property, and the FOX Blade is the most powerful HF Blade in existence, even more so than the Murusama Sword.

That is illogical considering the status you rate Gray Fox in regards to underestimating Vergil`s skill in responsive comparison, Vergil is faster and can teleport while summoning projectiles that fire at a repetitive rate how will it be too difficult when Dante himself has trouble? I understand your point but that is regarded within Gray Fox`s universe if Vergil was within the MGS universe things would be extremely different same goes for Gray Fox going to the DMC universe, Vergil has seen and fought worse. Vergil is more versatile, he can fire summoned swords, has his own fighting style and stance also he has Devil Trigger, Judgment Cut, teleportation he can do more it has nothing to do with history or accomplishments its the actual feats and abilities that matter. What arm knives, daggers, guns and mechanized swords going to do Vergil? Like he hasn`t gone up against worse, Dante`s sword Rebellion couldn`t even put him down and he can fight for hours without end also Gray Fox is the limited one considering most of his efforts wouldn`t work, a Judgement Cut would kill Gray Fox on the spot and also Gray Fox has no answer or counter for Vergil`s teleportation ability. Also his summoned swords are magically supplemented meaning they generate from a form of powerful magic as confirmed within the official manuals and guides within the game.

Vergil's status as a "demon" does not mean anything when his feats put him at a level below Gray Fox. What makes you so sure that "demons" are so unequivocally superior to the cutting edge technology and supernatural forces that inhabit the Metal Gear universe? The word demon sure sounds more scary, but the demons in DMC haven't done anything to say they're really that powerful. This is what I meant when I mentioned bias before. "Knives, daggers, guns, and mechanized swords" can indeed do a lot to Vergil considering his regeneration will begin to fail after enough blood is spilt.

I can just as easily say Gray Fox has gone up against worse considering the level Metal Gear technology is on, theorized to be decades or even centuries beyond our current time.

I know the summoned swords are magic, what does that prove? Does Vergil automatically win because we assume magic>technology? Such questions are actually a recurring theme of the Metal Gear-verse, and more often then not, technology and skill wins because the mortal mind is capable of such will and determination that no supernatural force could ever compete with. By sheer coincidence, the DMC series supports that exact ideology as well.

What? Vergil has a supernatural atmospheric sense he would be able to track him easily,

No he doesn't. Vergil has never displayed "atmospheric sense" beyond any typical mortal man.

and what`s stop Vergil from speedblitzing with teleportation?

If it's so easy why didn't he do that to Dante? Gray Fox's skill and reaction time is more than enough to counter that power.

Vergil can track him through sound if weaker opponents who are not even powered by the supernatural can do it then so can a powerful half demon like Vergil

You seem to have quite a few misconceptions about Metal Gear. Nobody has ever tracked Gray Fox through sound.

Vergil would curbstomp Gray Fox with one Judgment Cut and Gray Fox cannot even kill Vergil once he goes into his Devil Trigger form, Gray Fox on the other hand wouldn`t be able to handle a single Judgement Cut.

Now that's just disrespectful, you're really starting to sound like a fanboy.

There is no proof that it would be able to vaporize Vergil, Vergil can dodge the cannon easily with his speed or teleportation also he could slice through the cannon beams with Judgment Cut and I don`t think Gray Fox would be able to survive multiple Judgment Cut Spheres which appear everywhere from top to bottom.

Actually, Vergil's durability is pretty crappy. It's his regen that's powerful, but standard bullets and swords have consistently punctured both sons of Sparda. The arm cannon can definitely vaporize Vergil, considering it's more powerful than HEAT missiles.

Vergil can also read movements and sense auras in part with his atmospheric sense

Really where are you getting this from? Vergil has never shown senses superior to any mortal; you're making a pretty big assumption by saying this is what will allow him to "stomp" one of the most legendary black ops agents in history.

and none of that would matter considering Vergil could just teleport instantly before Gray Fox could even make a move and then its all over.

Or Gray Fox can turn invisible and leave Vergil helplessly dumbfounded. The difference is, Vergil's teleportation can be countered by Gray Fox's reaction time. Invisibility however, the demon has no counter for.

Vergil has many options he could block the energy beams with a barrage of summoned swords, cut them with Judgment Cut, teleport away from the blasts or just simply use his incredible speed to outpace them

The arm cannon isn't a projectile, it shoots an actual energy beam. You can't cut energy in half. Not to mention Dante destroys the swords with his .45 caliber pistols, so they're hardly that durable.

Vergil is fast and can teleport, but Gray Fox is a far superior marksman to him, so if they play the range game, Vergil with his swords and Fox with his arm cannon, Fox will win based purely off that.

Now this sounds pretty biased to me. Vergil self taught himself from an early age, Rebellion and Yamato were left as gifts or keepsakes from their father Sparda since then they have mastered their weapons through their own ways, styles, codes and views on top of that Vergil has a connection with his sword he`s a true swordsman at heart similar to that of a samurai something he is compared to quite often.

Anyone who knows anything about Metal Gear should know that Gray Fox is the ultimate true-born warrior, a natural right from birth. Like I said, he was singlehandedly taking on entire squads of armed soldiers as a child, before receiving any training or enhancements. His years of training that ensued only complimented his natural abilities. Vergil is compared to samurais true; the difference is, Frank Jaeger is a samurai. Just listen to his death speech; any of them, considering the guy "died" like, two or three times.

Really? 100 ton strength? Beowulf smashed Dante into the ground and Dante brushed it off, Vergil would be able to do the same if not better since he developed quicker and understand how to tap into his demonic blood with more efficiency

Beowulf has no feats, he's just big. Even then, Dante was noticeably winded. And again that's DANTE performing the feat; what exactly has Vergil done? Dante got punched by Beowulf after his Awakening, so he was already an equal to Vergil by this point.

also how is Gray Fox exactly going to be able to reach Vergil in order for there to be a disarming?

Well, sword fights tend to go down in close quarters combat.

there is no proof that Gray Fox is more skilled, faster or stronger than Vergil.

Besides feats? I'll give you speed is more or less equal, but Vergil has NO skill feats, and NO strength feats. Meanwhile Gray Fox overpowered Metal Gear REX, which not only weighed over 500 tons, but could effortlessly jumps tens of meters through the air, meaning the Cyborg Ninja exoskeleton also overpowered the force it was putting in.

He did it pretty casually too, poking fun at his combat buddy Snake, not to mention one-handed.

I like Vergil too and I like Gray Fox as well, as I know for a fact that Vergil would curbstomp him easily,

Based on what? Your only argument in this thread was that Vergil is a demon so therefore he MUST be more powerful than Gray Fox! However, his summoned swords will be useless, Yamato is an extremely limited weapon because the damage it causes only appears after it's re-sheathed, Vergil is a novice swordsman who just swings his blade around and tries to be flashy, his strength is barely peak human, and if Gray Fox activates his stealth camo, Vergil will just be left standing around like an idiot. Vergil's only advantage is his regeneration, which loses effectiveness after he sustains a few injuries. As unskilled as he is, Vergil usually sustains a lot of injuries during his fights.

you only made this because of your fondness for Vergil but you even admit he doesn`t stand a chance, for the creator of the thread to have a winner in mind is pretty much against the rules, the most logical reason would be to inspire answers out of the ones attending and debating the thread such as myself but if that were true you wouldn`t have admitted a winner which is what I stand by in all validity as I rest my case.

I thought the purpose of this website was too debate...

#28 Edited by NeonGameWave (7685 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto said:

@neongamewave

False. In actuality it increases all aspects and attributes of the activator, Vergil would be faster, stronger, more agile and alert in regards to his surroundings it also increases his healing factor as well, by gameplay mechanics it doesn`t even last five seconds it`s far longer than that number or measurable amount of time its restricted by gameplay mechanics which this match wouldn`t need or have. Vergil stomps Gray Fox without the DT, he can summon multiple swords simultaneously while slashing away with Judgment Cuts on top of all that he can teleport.

Obviously devil trigger increases Vergil's stats, I never argued it doesn't. My point was that it increases them an unquantifiable amount, so we can't act like Vergil can suddenly beat a character who he's majorly outclassed by, just by going DT.

That is not my point, my point is that his DT increases his power greatly in every aspect and it more so corresponds to this match as it would only further Vergil`s chances on winning against Gray Fox, the Devil Trigger probably more than doubles the user`s power as shown with the regenerative and striking power components of the characters` traits.

"Stomp" is a bold word. I highly doubt either combatant in this match will be getting "stomped". You act like Vergil has feats that place him on an entirely different pedestal than the Cyborg Ninja, when in actuality his only advantage to speak of is his regen. The more I think about it, Vamp seems like a more even match for Vergil than Gray Fox.

You actually utilized the word stomp first which I must firstly correct, and secondly Vergil does have feats that outclass Gray Fox, you haven`t proven why Gray Fox would even be able to stand up to Vergil`s Devil Trigger, teleportation or summoned swords you are assuming that his usual tricks would work on a half demon who Dante had a hard time is killing or defeating with supernaturally empowered weapons. Vergil doesn`t only have regeneration over the Cyborg Ninja he also has speed, sensory and reactionary instincts, versatility and durability also he has teleportation which is within the category of versatility something Gray Fox has never dealt with before that alone proves my point on how uneven this fight truly is. Then you should of used Vamp for this matchup who is also an amazing MGS character along with Raiden, Big boss and the Cobra Unit, I agree to a degree, I believe he would be a far better matchup for Vergil.

That is a good point but I doubt it matches Vergil who can sense individuals from far away distances and predict occurring moves while within a burst of speed

When has he ever done any of this?

Dante has done this before awakening his Devil Trigger and Vergil realistically would have the same benefits also within the manga he destroyed one of the Seven Sins that Sparda sealed away and they utilized an illusion but Vergil was able to see through the illusion in which he cut through it with Yamato which furthers its physic defying abilities.

also Vergil is able to compete with Dante who excels in the areas of reflex, reaction time and atmospheric sense.

So does Gray Fox, so that's a moot point. Saying Vergil can "compete" with a character who has impressive feats, without actually having accomplished those feats himself, is not enough to say he can beat an opponent who HAS accomplished those feats, AKA Gray Fox.

Not really considering it wouldn`t be on the same level just because he has the same ability doesn`t mean its as effective or impressive. Actually it would be considering Vergil has many feats and powers as well as capabilities speak for themselves considering who he has went up against, Gray Fox has fought nothing that is as powerful as Vergil before, Vergil has fought worse such as Arkham, Beowulf, Dante, Mundus and etc. Vergil`s not a regular human, how is Gray Fox even going to hope to get passed his regeneration, teleportation or magical abilities?

It's pretty simple logic. Vergil's greatest feat is fighting, and losing, to Dante. If Gray Fox has done everything Dante can do and more (at least in DMC3) then he can ALSO beat Vergil.

That`s faulty logic considering the fact that Vergil has feats that extend within the field of fighting and he only lost to Dante because Dante grew on his purpose of determination also Vergil was fighting for the wrong reasons, Gray Fox has feats that are somewhat comparable to Dante`s but not as great or to the same efficiency also Vergil defeated Dante before and allowed him to awaken his Devil Trigger, Gray Fox has never fought a half demon as powerful as either Vergil or Dante so your point within an faulty assumption is void.

That is true but you missed the main and most important essence which is moving faster than an after image or what the eye can see would definitely be classified as something moving faster than what the individual`s mind could process ultimately leading above supersonic ranges of speed also Vergil can definitely move faster while in his Devil Trigger form its only logical.

It doesn't matter if Vergil can do that because Gray Fox has too.

Like when exactly? Vergil has Devil Trigger on top of all that speed and he has the greater stamina.

I notice the icon and I respect that, although its DMC 4 Dante, I have every Devil May Cry game and read the manga as well as watched the anime in its entirety. There is no bias being integrated or implemented into this debate its only by assumption that this bias is being made notice

I have too. I love Devil May Cry, if I think about it, it's probably my second favorite video game franchise, usurped only by, yes, Metal Gear.

I respect that and I agree its also one of my favorite top series or video games in general, along with Metal Gear, Legend of Zelda, Kingdom Hearts, Bioshock, Prince of Persia, Shadow of the Colossus, God of War and many, many more series.

I think we all have a little bias in us towards our favorite characters, assuming they can accomplish certain feats when they've only been implied to be at such a power level. My main point for Gray Fox beating Vergil, is that ignoring power scaling and in-game implications, his on-screen feats surpass what Vergil has done.

In some ways we do but it doesn`t mean or necessarily speak for all situations as well as circumstances. I`m not factoring in no form of bias, I`m only stating the obvious there`s a difference between the two also Vergil`s power has not been only implied but it has been proven considering what we has gone up against and the fact that he can hold his own against Dante, Gray Fox wouldn`t stand a chance against DMC 3 Dante, Vergil is the one to more better compared and based on feats as well as what Vergil can do or has done it just shows the gap between him and Gray Fox, I believe he can win in many ways due to his speed, teleportation, summoned swords and the fact that bullets or mere stabbing wounds wouldn`t even phase him also Gray Fox by fact wouldn`t even survive a single slash from Yamato Vergil on the other hand can easily endure through being stabbed, shot and etc. That`s the main difference you are overlooking the odds, favors and chances are more probable for Vergil winning the outcome he has more going for him.

Winning doesn`t always determine or define skill. The losing of Vergil more so occurred to Dante awakening his supernatural power and rising to the occasion of having greater prowess within progress he didn`t immediately beat Vergil, its not about sheer skill its about determination. Dante was fighting for a greater and more motivational purpose than Vergil was which led to Vergil`s downfall, by your logic Ichigo overpowering and succeeding against Aizen would only mean he is that much more skilled.

They're brothers and rivals in power. Dante winning implies that he finally surpassed his brother, which had been the goal throughout the entire game, in every aspect. It's heavily implied that they had become equals in power, so the only way for Dante to win would be through determination and skill (determination has a big effect on skill).

I agree. You are only assuming and its centralized in opinionated views for you to draw an conclusion from that it wasn`t skill like you were implying that made Dante win it could of been a small contributor but it was solely and mainly because of his determination also the fact that Dante had to grow stronger throughout the game just proves how powerful, skill and gifted with wealthy knowledge Vergil just furthers my point rather than hindering it also a fight doesn`t come down to skill only it comes down to circumstance, advantage and personality. Who is more likely to make the first mistake, underestimate the opponent or misjudge a calculation? Vergil can teleport, summon magical swords simultaneously within movement, move in quick bursts and can jump far up from many platforms also he has a regeneration within his base form that can withstand being pounded on by Rebellion and etc, now has Gray Fox stand a chance exactly and where does skill factor into those methods?

I'll ask this: throughout the entire franchise, what proof has there ever been that Vergil is a better swordsman than Dante?

Vergil is not necessarily a better swordsman its just that he learns quicker and has a strong connection to his sword Yamato he`s skilled enough to take on the likes of Dante who has shown enough skill that alone is a good testament to what Vergil can do and is capable of. Vergil even specializes in the form of laido an official Japanese martial arts style this should also be acknowledged.

Falsely phrased and stated. I have the game and I play as Vergil a lot his summoned swords shouldn`t compared or referenced to that of the speed of a snail the problem and the point you seem to be underestimating is the fact that these swords are continuous and can shoot from different angles also Vergil can use them as shields as he can also fight while utilizing them also you cannot guarantee that they won`t break through Gray Fox`s armor even if you were to be right it doesn`t change the fact that they can serve as an distraction while Vergil prepares Judgement Cuts

Obviously it was a hyperbole when I said they move at snail speed. My point was that they are a far cry from bullets, things that move in slow motion to a cyborg's perception. Dante easily avoided them, why can't Gray Fox? The swords don't track their target, once they're fired, they are on a set path, so timing them shouldn't prove too difficult. Honestly the summoned swords should not be any problem at all for Gray Fox, you act like they are going to completely overwhelm him when in reality, they should be avoided or parried pretty easily.

I could see and understand the form of hyperbole as well as exaggeration, however the main issue is not actually dodging the summoned swords but intercepting them while keeping yourself guarded at the same time which Gray Fox would have to deal with while dealing with Vergil`s teleportation and Judgement Cuts of course Dante easily avoided them he`s faster and more alert also they can be fired from more than one angle. Did you know that Vergil can keep firing the summoned swords without restriction or limitation? Even if Gray Fox is successful in dodging the summoned swords it doesn`t mean he would be able to read Vergil`s movements when he is firing the same summoned swords that you believe won`t serve a purpose to Gray Fox`s downfall.

also if your not aware Vergil can actually slash and harm his opponents from long range distances as an example would be when he cut off Arkham`s hand before it reached Dante, Vergil was standing on a higher platform from an considerable distance another good example would be when Dante in the form of a projectile based slash cuts the main and last Hell Gate in half.

Most high frequency blades have the same property, and the FOX Blade is the most powerful HF Blade in existence, even more so than the Murusama Sword.

That is true but a fact over a fact is always interesting and in this case the Yamato blade is greater than the FOX Blade itself and Murusama Sword considering the fact that it can cut through dimensions, separate two different worlds, cut through illusions created by high powered fallen angels and even pierce through Nero`s invulnerable Devil Bringer on top of all that Vergil has shown that the blade itself can dish out many attacks at one given point within one given speed.

Dismembers Arkham`s hand from a far away distance and Vergil was standing on a high platform as well he can provide many of these slashes within a burst of speed also while using Summoned Swords.

At point 2:50 - 3:58 you can see the emphasis of Vergil`s skill of using laido and he wrecks these demons easily with mere slashes from Yamato.

From point 2:50 - 3:28 it is shown that Yamato is even sharp enough to easily pierce Nero`s invulnerable Devil Bringer and deactivate its power or disconnect Nero`s demonic blood.

That is illogical considering the status you rate Gray Fox in regards to underestimating Vergil`s skill in responsive comparison, Vergil is faster and can teleport while summoning projectiles that fire at a repetitive rate how will it be too difficult when Dante himself has trouble? I understand your point but that is regarded within Gray Fox`s universe if Vergil was within the MGS universe things would be extremely different same goes for Gray Fox going to the DMC universe, Vergil has seen and fought worse. Vergil is more versatile, he can fire summoned swords, has his own fighting style and stance also he has Devil Trigger, Judgment Cut, teleportation he can do more it has nothing to do with history or accomplishments its the actual feats and abilities that matter. What arm knives, daggers, guns and mechanized swords going to do Vergil? Like he hasn`t gone up against worse, Dante`s sword Rebellion couldn`t even put him down and he can fight for hours without end also Gray Fox is the limited one considering most of his efforts wouldn`t work, a Judgement Cut would kill Gray Fox on the spot and also Gray Fox has no answer or counter for Vergil`s teleportation ability. Also his summoned swords are magically supplemented meaning they generate from a form of powerful magic as confirmed within the official manuals and guides within the game.

Vergil's status as a "demon" does not mean anything when his feats put him at a level below Gray Fox. What makes you so sure that "demons" are so unequivocally superior to the cutting edge technology and supernatural forces that inhabit the Metal Gear universe? The word demon sure sounds more scary, but the demons in DMC haven't done anything to say they're really that powerful. This is what I meant when I mentioned bias before. "Knives, daggers, guns, and mechanized swords" can indeed do a lot to Vergil considering his regeneration will begin to fail after enough blood is spilt.

His feats and implications of power in regards to his even grounds with Dante put him above Gray Fox, for a fact that the demons actually threaten the entire world on a regular basis and reality also the fact that it extends beyond a war but it extends to domination to say that Vergil`s status as a demon doesn`t mean anything is quite questionable and nonfactual considering he is more powerful than what Gray Fox usually went up against also to say that the demons within the DMC universe haven`t done anything powerful is the really, really bias we all know for a fact that you favor and cherish MGS over DMC no offense though. No Metal Gear, organization or special forces such as Beauty and the Beast, Cobra Unit and etc compares to Mundus creating dimensions, ruling realities, creating life out of nothing, The Despair Embodied, Abigail who threatened to control the human world which he could of done if it weren`t for Dante getting in the way. Not true, I`m beginning to wonder if you actually know his character like you claiming or presuming so confidently to have within the bask of your knowledge, the Sparda brothers` regeneration main weakness when it comes to regeneration is stamina not simply lost of blood which unlike normal humans his body keeps under circulation at a greater rate. Bullets don`t phase Dante, neither does having Rebellion thrust into his chest, Vergil can endure through being slashed multiple times for countless hours by Rebellion and he can still stand tall also on top of that he has Devil Trigger now what are daggers, guns and mechanized swords going to do exactly?

I can just as easily say Gray Fox has gone up against worse considering the level Metal Gear technology is on, theorized to be decades or even centuries beyond our current time.

Metal Gears that don`t compare to highly powered demons who existed since the time of the Underworld which was present for more than thousands of years, how does highly advanced technology compare to highly powered supernatural powers that exist in different realities? A very incompatible and obviously no competitive comparison. I doubt Gray Fox would even survive in the DMC universe the same cannot be said for Vergil, the obvious has him protected against the odds he would do much better in the MGS universe with enough knowledge and understanding, I see why not.

I know the summoned swords are magic, what does that prove? Does Vergil automatically win because we assume magic>technology? Such questions are actually a recurring theme of the Metal Gear-verse, and more often then not, technology and skill wins because the mortal mind is capable of such will and determination that no supernatural force could ever compete with. By sheer coincidence, the DMC series supports that exact ideology as well.

It proves my point. Its not simply magic vs technology its the fact that these same blades can harm supernatural entities of great power also the fact that they take the form of Force Edge or Yamato which through magic they embody in essence another point you are overlooking also to compare MGS to DMC as having the same ideology is wrong. The questions and themes are similar but the human against the forces of the supernatural that is explained is not more so about technology but it is about determination, compassion and love which is what always emphasized in every game in relation to the story and title which is why Sparda and Dante excelled over many other demons in the first place also the fact that humans can be more evil than demons is referenced by Lady herself also how does that exactly help Gray Fox win? Also that theme and philosophy is more so showcased within the MGS universe not DMC universe they are not interchangeable like you are portraying them to be within your reasoning so the point becomes even more void than what it actually was within the first point.

What? Vergil has a supernatural atmospheric sense he would be able to track him easily,

No he doesn't. Vergil has never displayed "atmospheric sense" beyond any typical mortal man.

Yes he does. Vergil is a half demon, Dante can sense things within the air and can perceive things better than what normal humans can perceive. Dante`s demon side was even responding to the alterations of the Temen-ni-gru tower that shows how his supernatural bodily functions even work and Dante was looking straight up when in comprehending on what was going on he could sense the changes.

and what`s stop Vergil from speedblitzing with teleportation?

If it's so easy why didn't he do that to Dante? Gray Fox's skill and reaction time is more than enough to counter that power.

You know Dante can teleport too, right? Dante is on par with Vergil in that department and Vergil throughout the game was testing Dante as well also its officially apart of his moveset so your point is void in your attempt to debunk it through the aspects of the story, no its not you haven`t proven why. Gray Fox has never shown to dodge or comprehend instant teleportation this is what bias actually is.

Vergil can track him through sound if weaker opponents who are not even powered by the supernatural can do it then so can a powerful half demon like Vergil

You seem to have quite a few misconceptions about Metal Gear. Nobody has ever tracked Gray Fox through sound.

You seem to have misunderstood my point about how Vergil would track him with his atmospheric sense and through sound as he has enhanced senses that are far above a normal human`s he would be able to track him, no human has ever tracked Gray Fox through sound also why can`t Vergil just conjure up Judgment Cut Orbs within the area? That spread out and encompass within that of the air and grounds?

Vergil would curbstomp Gray Fox with one Judgment Cut and Gray Fox cannot even kill Vergil once he goes into his Devil Trigger form, Gray Fox on the other hand wouldn`t be able to handle a single Judgement Cut.

Now that's just disrespectful, you're really starting to sound like a fanboy.

Actually you were the one to suggest that Gray Fox would stomp Vergil first and what I am saying is true, I have provided proof also taking it so offensively just goes to show who the real fanboy here is.

Nickzambuto: The Ninja has shown no qualms about using his stealth camouflage against opponents infinitely weaker than himself; with Frank's stealth training, Vergil will have no way of tracking his opponent. Gray Fox can stomp pretty easily that way.

I like Vergil (which is why I made this thread) but there is honestly no way for him to beat a true warrior like Frank Jaeger, demon or no.

There is no proof that it would be able to vaporize Vergil, Vergil can dodge the cannon easily with his speed or teleportation also he could slice through the cannon beams with Judgment Cut and I don`t think Gray Fox would be able to survive multiple Judgment Cut Spheres which appear everywhere from top to bottom.

Actually, Vergil's durability is pretty crappy. It's his regen that's powerful, but standard bullets and swords have consistently punctured both sons of Sparda. The arm cannon can definitely vaporize Vergil, considering it's more powerful than HEAT missiles.

What? Bullets and swords that don`t appear as wounds seconds after if that`s what you mean also I don`t see how the beam would even touch Vergil considering he has teleportation and the fact that he can cut through the beam itself with Yamato.

Vergil can also read movements and sense auras in part with his atmospheric sense

Really where are you getting this from? Vergil has never shown senses superior to any mortal; you're making a pretty big assumption by saying this is what will allow him to "stomp" one of the most legendary black ops agents in history.

Really? Vergil has read Dante`s movements within his second battle on the tower and he read Beowulf`s as well as Arkham`s movement have you actually played and beaten the game? Vergil and Dante both are far superior to normal mortals aksi when did I say it would allow him to stomp Gray Fox single handedly, where did I say that exactly? Your making assumptions and lying while twisting my words.

and none of that would matter considering Vergil could just teleport instantly before Gray Fox could even make a move and then its all over.

Or Gray Fox can turn invisible and leave Vergil helplessly dumbfounded. The difference is, Vergil's teleportation can be countered by Gray Fox's reaction time. Invisibility however, the demon has no counter for.

Wow, really? And you say that I`m biased? Once Vergil teleports in an instant he will teleport in an instant what feat suggests that Gray Fox would be able to dodge or guard himself against teleportation? He has no feats of this reaction time whatsoever, you are only assuming and considering it to be fact also Vergil does have a counter for the invisibility he has the Judgment Orbs that surround the entire area also there is a better chance of Vergil using teleportation and killing Gray Fox then for Gray Fox to become invisible in time and dodge, he hasn`t dodged no teleporters and you know this so to cover up for him is less than truthful.

Vergil has many options he could block the energy beams with a barrage of summoned swords, cut them with Judgment Cut, teleport away from the blasts or just simply use his incredible speed to outpace them

The arm cannon isn't a projectile, it shoots an actual energy beam. You can't cut energy in half. Not to mention Dante destroys the swords with his .45 caliber pistols, so they're hardly that durable.

I know that and Yamato has shown to be able to cut through an illusion as well as dimensional barriers so I don`t see how it would fail against an energy beam when it produces energy itself in the form of supernatural energy also his summoned swords could still guard him.

Vergil is fast and can teleport, but Gray Fox is a far superior marksman to him, so if they play the range game, Vergil with his swords and Fox with his arm cannon, Fox will win based purely off that.

Like I keep saying, Vergil doesn`t need to rely on the summoned swords he could use them while conjuring up Judgment Cuts and Judgement Cut Orbs also Gray Fox has absolutely no answer for teleportation regardless of how fast he is, teleportation gives Dante a lot of trouble and Dante utilizes a form of teleportation himself also on top of that Vergil has Devil Trigger.

Now this sounds pretty biased to me. Vergil self taught himself from an early age, Rebellion and Yamato were left as gifts or keepsakes from their father Sparda since then they have mastered their weapons through their own ways, styles, codes and views on top of that Vergil has a connection with his sword he`s a true swordsman at heart similar to that of a samurai something he is compared to quite often.

Anyone who knows anything about Metal Gear should know that Gray Fox is the ultimate true-born warrior, a natural right from birth. Like I said, he was singlehandedly taking on entire squads of armed soldiers as a child, before receiving any training or enhancements. His years of training that ensued only complimented his natural abilities. Vergil is compared to samurais true; the difference is, Frank Jaeger is a samurai. Just listen to his death speech; any of them, considering the guy "died" like, two or three times.

Anyone who knows about Devil May Cry knows that Vergil is the pinnacle of what a true swordsman should be, being born from a true warrior`s blood adds further depth also Vergil has taken on a group of strong demons who he squashed easily in his human form and he was able to take on a exceptionally skilled swordsman such as Dante in his human form without any enhancements or amps also Vergil mastered and self taught himself at an early age which makes it more impressive. He`s not only compared to samurais he`s considered to be greater than most of them also even if Gray Fox is a samurai it doesn`t make him any greater than that of Vergil and what does speech have to do with anything?

Really? 100 ton strength? Beowulf smashed Dante into the ground and Dante brushed it off, Vergil would be able to do the same if not better since he developed quicker and understand how to tap into his demonic blood with more efficiency

Beowulf has no feats, he's just big. Even then, Dante was noticeably winded. And again that's DANTE performing the feat; what exactly has Vergil done? Dante got punched by Beowulf after his Awakening, so he was already an equal to Vergil by this point.

What? Beowulf is very strong and his punch embedded Dante into the ground also he his strong enough to create pulses of supernatural light with his gauntlets, Dante got punched in his base form not demon form so that makes all the difference and Dante got impaled by Rebellion which triggered his awakening in the first place, my point stands in fact.

also how is Gray Fox exactly going to be able to reach Vergil in order for there to be a disarming?

Well, sword fights tend to go down in close quarters combat.

Not all the time, this is assuming. Why wouldn`t Vergil just kill him via teleportation and a Judgment Cut before he could even do anything or process a single thought?

there is no proof that Gray Fox is more skilled, faster or stronger than Vergil.

Besides feats? I'll give you speed is more or less equal, but Vergil has NO skill feats, and NO strength feats. Meanwhile Gray Fox overpowered Metal Gear REX, which not only weighed over 500 tons, but could effortlessly jumps tens of meters through the air, meaning the Cyborg Ninja exoskeleton also overpowered the force it was putting in.

He did it pretty casually too, poking fun at his combat buddy Snake, not to mention one-handed.

Vergil does have skill and strength feats. Vergil stopped a angry Dante`s Rebellion with one grab and Dante has a lot of strength also he was able to match Dante in sheer swordplay as he also taught himself from an early age how to wield Yamato his style is based and grounded in laido as well which is a legitimate backbone for his skill as well as skill-set. Also none of that matter to an opponent who can teleport in an instant, summon hundreds of Judgment Cuts that can cut through dimension and who possesses a extreme healing factor while tripling it with a Devil Trigger form so you basing the battle purely on skill and strength while not factoring everything else just goes to show what I have been debating this whole time in regards to your attitude towards Vergil in comparison to Gray Fox.

Skip to point 0:30 - 0:50.

I like Vergil too and I like Gray Fox as well, as I know for a fact that Vergil would curbstomp him easily,

Based on what? Your only argument in this thread was that Vergil is a demon so therefore he MUST be more powerful than Gray Fox! However, his summoned swords will be useless, Yamato is an extremely limited weapon because the damage it causes only appears after it's re-sheathed, Vergil is a novice swordsman who just swings his blade around and tries to be flashy, his strength is barely peak human, and if Gray Fox activates his stealth camo, Vergil will just be left standing around like an idiot. Vergil's only advantage is his regeneration, which loses effectiveness after he sustains a few injuries. As unskilled as he is, Vergil usually sustains a lot of injuries during his fights.

Based on the fact that Vergil has much more going for him and the odds are unmistakably within his favor. If that`s your views in concern to my arguments then you haven`t been paying close attention to my points throughout this debate and throughout this thread, your going on as if Vergil is some weak or normal demon and that Gray Fox would stomp or win purely because of skill when that it the gist of what you only provided in a nutshell, I on the other hand logically and straightforwardly explained my points as thorough as your eyes can see and your mind can comprehend, the summoned swords don`t have to hit Gray Fox they could just provide distractions from different angles, the following is FALSE. Nero himself used Yamato without unsheathing or sheathing the sword with the scabbard same with Dante its only shown and was done that way by Vergil because he utilized laido which you accused him of lacking skill in an area in regards to the comparing of Gray Fox which if you knew Vergil`s character, you would know that he specialized in and utilized a form of laido, within that technique they sheath the sword and unsheathe it to emphasize damage also they attack with the scabbard which Vergil also does and has done multiple times, how do you explain the events in which Vergil is harming Dante without placing Yamato back into its holder within fights 1 and 2 that took place within the actual cutscenes of the game, from tower to chamber? Unskilled, injuries? Vergil`s Devil Trigger is deactivated through extensive amounts of damage that he tanks from supernatural forces and that`s by gameplay mechanics similar to that of PIS which wouldn`t be factored in anyway and there`s no guarantee that Gray Fox would be able to harm Vergil with mortal firearms and a mechanical sword since the weapons Dante used are being channeled with his own energy anyway, if you knew DMC like you were proclaiming as well as claiming to know DMC then you would know these things instead of arrogantly jumping to conclusions (no offence).

Skip to 5:25 - 6:19

Skip to 3:36 - 3:40

you only made this because of your fondness for Vergil but you even admit he doesn`t stand a chance, for the creator of the thread to have a winner in mind is pretty much against the rules, the most logical reason would be to inspire answers out of the ones attending and debating the thread such as myself but if that were true you wouldn`t have admitted a winner which is what I stand by in all validity as I rest my case.

I thought the purpose of this website was too debate...

It is the purpose but you overlooked the rules in guide with what the purpose is supposed to be within the spirit of a debate. Your a phenomenal debater and I respect you a lot but I don`t like what I`m seeing, and I certainly don`t like where this debate is going so don`t expect a further response from me.

#29 Edited by UltimateHero0406 (2167 posts) - - Show Bio

Vergil

Absolute Murder.

#30 Edited by nickzambuto (12639 posts) - - Show Bio

@neongamewave Well, it doesn't seem like we're going to convince each other one way or the other. I still believe the Cyborg Ninja is a lot more powerful than Vergil and has more options of attack at his disposal, but the problem with Gray Fox is that he only has feats from two games, so frankly I don't know what else I can say :P