Verdona vs Kaguya

Well, since the only one I can depend on to make these kinds of threads (I don't normally do this because I usually do Ben 10 vs comics and not anime, but in this case I'll have to make an exception), @loki_d hasn't been active for quite a while, I have taken it upon myself to make this thread.

Grandma Verdona from Ben 10:

Vs.

Kaguya from Naruto:

Rules

Verdona has the full power of an Anodite, which includes reality warping.

Winner is by Death or KO

BFR is allowed, but it doesn't constitute a victory

Who wins?

I forgot about the callouts:

Interesting fight.

I think Verdona should take this without too much trouble, overall she was more impressive and Anodites are more than exceptional when it comes to reality/matter manipulation and I don`t think Kaguya will be able to put her down.

I forgot about the callouts:

Perhaps. Just gonna wait till @princearagorn1 comes in tho...

Verdona

Verdona should be able to stomp via Anodite hype. Never really saw too much from her, but anodites are supposedly the strongest beings in the universe according to Dagon.

@the_legendary_supersaiyan_hulk: Well she did warp reality. And there are just a few things that Gwen, an imperfect anodite, did that were a bit impressive.

Celestialsapiens > Both

Off-Topic, but true.

Bump.

Where are you, @princearagorn1?

@the_legendary_supersaiyan_hulk: do you mind reminding me what verdona/gwen did that will help her win?

@princearagorn1: Well, she's an anodite... magical being made of pure energy.... we haven't really seen her do much though i:

If we base anything off of Gwen, who is much weaker than Verdona and her cousin Sunny, when the Highbreed was invading she had said she felt as if she had enough power to destroy their entire fleet. Then, when Diagon arrived and took control of her, he stated that she was the strongest being on the planet(outside himself). Note that Sir George(who was wielding Ascalon, a sword that can literally cut through reality and has planet busting feats), as well as an enhanced Vilgax, and Ben were also on the planet.

@the_legendary_supersaiyan_hulk: I did ask what did gwen do, as well.

Considering we have already seen how far ahead ben is of gwen, diagon's statement contradicts what the show says. Unless you are going to say gwen can take down alien X now.

On the other hand, juubi is the creator of the planet, moon and all. Even when not in his final form, his energies were already comparable to the planet. But when kaguya appeared, she was said to be 'on an entirely different level' than madara+juubi. Plus she can practically atomize dimensions containing planets mid-fight..

Bolds are false. Juubi is an alien, he didn't create anything. Kaguya doesn't even have moon level feats, she's planet level only by powerscaling

@josephgomes619:

I will have to wait to get to a computer to wait for scans, but kurama explained the first one to naruto, and second was what kaguya was doing with her gudo dama.

Hagoromo himself said Kaguya was an alien, this was also explicitly mentioned in the databook. Kurama is irrelevant

@josephgomes619: kaguya was an alien. We are talking about the creator, the aggregate of tailed beasts.

Goku.

Hagoromo created ninshuu, not the world. Who feeds you all these fake Naruto info?

@josephgomes619: What are you talking about? Who said anything about Hagoromo? You sure you're replying to the right person?

I thought you were referring to Hagoromo, who's called the God of shinobi. Who is this creator you're talking about?

@josephgomes619: I see. You need to review the manga then: http://i.imgur.com/76o0ZZG.png

Or chapter 594: the chapter titled "the progenitor"

I suppose it is easy to be confused though. But no, neither me nor the chapter was referring to hagoromo.

@frisky4: I have little tolerance for off-topic stuff and have flagged your post.

@iamoptimusprime: I don't see how that's flag-worthy. I say it every time there's an anime character I'm unfamiliar with, and I can list at least four other people who do the same.

Here:

"

21. Flagging Posts

A lot of people just PM the mods when they see something offensive in a post. There is a flagging system in place.

Q: When is it OK to flag something?

A: If there are expletives/swear words that aren't semi-censored.

"

@princearagorn1: In any case, I did say that this includes stated abilities for the Anodites, as they have given off indications that they can indeed do this stuff :P.

@frisky4: no matter how many people do it, it neither justifies nor does it change the fact that it is off-topic. Not to mention the fact that DBZ is banned in this case.

If you are not familiar with the characters, then don't post at all! It's really that simple.

Hm..... I go with the one i know, and that's verdona, if feats come for kugaya then.......

Nothing to really justify.

Being off-topic like that really doesn't matter. Now if I started changing the subject by asking personal questions or whathaveyou, then I'm in the bad type of off-topic.

You can mention DBZ characters, and in cases of "beat my team" or even CaV's, you can use DBZ characters, and even argue them. What I did is not against any of the rules.

What? You don't get to tell me that!

Whatever.

Granny tennyson can crap on kaguya through a number of ways but here's some

Ability; anodites not only have reality warping powers to at least a mid level (enough to warrant an inter dimensional super being naming them ben's universe no 1) but are also attuned to magic which can be compared to naruto's jutsu, we've seen gwen call down lightning, cast mana enhanced tornadoes and display earth manipulation abilities (all in ultimate enemy ua) so she might know a thing or two about seals too

Energy; anodites are free spirited energy beings that feed on the life force (chakra) of any living thing, who's to say granny can't go all vampire and drain kaguya's good looks to enhance hers?

Fact; if an interdimensional god calls you the most powerful species in a universe full of time warpers, shape shifters, super inbtelligent manipulators of all kinds of energy, living planets, speedsters, beings that can destroy planets through cosmic storms etc with planet busting artifacts?..... Ya gotta be doing something right

Oh, off topic here but Alien X doesn't count, the celestialsapiens live in the space BEYOND all other universes in the ben 10 verse called the forge of creation or zvezda

Juubi is the progenitor of chakra only, nothing more. The only possible true God in Naruto could be Jashin, but that was not explained properly in the manga

Or Silver Gangsta (AKA Norrin Radical)

Alien X doesn't live in the universe his species lives outside the known (and unknown)universes of the ben10 verse, the forge of creation aka zvezda

@josephgomes619: Toneri being a planetary threat in the movie and he was weaker than Madara who should be planetary +, the juubi itself is like another planet in power, Kaguya can completely destroy dimesnions.

OP: Kaguya can curve her way into a win, its just that she didn't display her full arsenal

Dude..... She can just drain their chakra nuff said , she's a reality warper, after that big fight with ben and totally trashing gwens' house she shrugged it off and fixed the whole place with a snap of a finger, they might be planet level or whatevs but daigon was universe level.... Throughout dimensions I just don't see kaguya winning sure kaguya busted dimensions but those where her own pocket dimensions.... In a genjutsu

@josephgomes619: Nope. the first link shows the scan.

........ Yeah I guess but let's be honest NO ONE in the ben10 verse has ever been used extensively that's why they don't take the verse seriously on paper ben's the most powerful character out there but the damn writers limit him, all they do is post base less statements on wiki, its even a miracle you and imoptimusprime have given him such recognition

.....The hell did those messages come from?!... Jeez I hate this damn blackberry..... Huh anyway I was making a reference to what you said loki, they didn't display verdonas' powers extensively either...but your point still remains now that I look at it all she did was godmod

@tetraxatron: Let's see.

"Anodites not only have reality warping powers to at least a mid level (enough to warrant an inter dimensional super being naming them ben's universe no 1)"

Kaguya has reality warping herself. On a larger scale than what Verdona showed.

"but are also attuned to magic which can be compared to naruto's jutsu, we've seen gwen call down lightning, cast mana enhanced tornadoes and display earth manipulation abilities (all in ultimate enemy ua) so she might know a thing or two about seals too"

Calling down lightening, casting tornados, and manipulating earth. Let's be honest here, all three of these are done by shinobi on a level higher than gwen.

"anodites are free spirited energy beings that feed on the life force (chakra) of any living thing, who's to say granny can't go all vampire and drain kaguya's good looks to enhance hers?"

The fact that kaguya was absorbing the energies of the entire planet herself?

"Fact; if an interdimensional god calls you the most powerful species in a universe full of time warpers, shape shifters, super inbtelligent manipulators of all kinds of energy, living planets, speedsters, beings that can destroy planets through cosmic storms etc with planet busting artifacts?..... Ya gotta be doing something rightOh, off topic here but Alien X doesn't count, the celestialsapiens live in the space BEYOND all other universes in the ben 10 verse called the forge of creation or zvezda"

Most powerful being on the planet, iirc. Not the universe. And even if celestial sapiens live in the forge of creation, ben lives in the universe.

"after that big fight with ben and totally trashing gwens' house she shrugged it off and fixed the whole place with a snap of a finger"

How is fixing a house a feat worth mentioning at this scale?

On what 'larger scale', correct me if I'm wrong but they were trading blows in a genjutsu, ergo an illusion right? So that can be consideered as a crutch

The magic /jutsu comparison; dude I know that! Kisame made an entire sea with chakra alone! I brought that up to prove jutsu cannot be used against her in any way since she deals in some of its techniques

The reparing of a damaged landscape in a REAL earthly plain without breaking a sweat can be used as a biulding block to what granny can really do

Kaguya draining the earth? Did you forget that kakashi mentioned she was tapping into the erth's chakra and manipulating it making the 'earth' attack naruto itself all you saw was typical anime hype my friend

@tetraxatron:

"On what 'larger scale', correct me if I'm wrong but they were trading blows in a genjutsu, ergo an illusion right? So that can be consideered as a crutch"

She controls the planet itself. Madara, with only a small part of her power, used planet wide wood technique..

Genjutsu? What genjutsu?

"The magic /jutsu comparison; dude I know that! Kisame made an entire sea with chakra alone! I brought that up to prove jutsu cannot be used against her in any way since she deals in some of its techniques"

Well, technically, that was a third of kisame's power, and it was a lake, not really a sea. Either way. She only deals with low level techniques, is what I was implying with it. What gwen does is easily surpassed by shinobi that are nothing compared to kaguya.

"The reparing of a damaged landscape in a REAL earthly plain without breaking a sweat can be used as a biulding block to what granny can really do"

Uh. Yamato was repairing larger portions of konoha by himself.

"Kaguya draining the earth? Did you forget that kakashi mentioned she was tapping into the erth's chakra and manipulating it making the 'earth' attack naruto itself "

Not that one. Zetsu explains that she is simultaneously absorbing energy from people back home, while naruto and sasuke were fighting her in other dimension.

"all you saw was typical anime hype my friend."

?

Kaguya hasn't appeared in the anime yet.

Jeez... Now I feel stupid sayin that, sorry dude.... Anyway on topic

Kaguya granted. Still syphones chakra but she wasn't draining fast enough to kill naruto (I'm looking at you kishimoto) so granted anodites don't drain to a husk but they can drain multiple targets

The yamato thing was done with wood not the snap of a finger, which granny did though on a smaller scale forgive me but dude to ben 10 not having enough feats I'm gonna asume she can do and undo much more than just a house

Casting a planet wide wood jutsu...... Yeah I'll give you that but that doesn't mean much when you're placed on a pedistal higher than a planet crapping sword and a universe evolution gauntlet

And for the last time I KNOW THAT, all I'm saying is it won't be hard for gwen to learn the concept of jutsu if brought up by her opponent

Off point; someone better resurrect dwayne and kill that fatboy or at least sell ben 10 to someone that can expanciate on his potential well enough for me not to be afraid of defending him in a debate

@tetraxatron: "Jeez... Now I feel stupid sayin that, sorry dude...."

Nothing to be sorry about. You're a lot better than most new members really.

"Kaguya granted. Still syphones chakra but she wasn't draining fast enough to kill naruto (I'm looking at you kishimoto) so granted anodites don't drain to a husk but they can drain multiple targets"

That is, for starters, plot, and more logically, because of the immense amount naruto had at the time. They were being amped by sage of six paths at the time. Kaguya can drain multiple targets at once as well, so that doesn't really help.

"The yamato thing was done with wood not the snap of a finger, which granny did though on a smaller scale. Casting a planet wide wood jutsu...... Yeah I'll give you that but that doesn't mean much when you're placed on a pedistal higher than a planet crapping sword and a universe evolution gauntlet"

Yamato did it by touching the ground iirc, not exactly finger snap, but close enough.

"forgive me but dude to ben 10 not having enough feats I'm gonna asume she can do and undo much more than just a house"

The question is, how much better. You're basically assuming a specific level of power based on statements, and saying that is why she will win. That's not going to work. It will work for.. say.. starbeard. Because someone of his species has feats backing the assumptions you can make about them.

"And for the last time I KNOW THAT, all I'm saying is it won't be hard for gwen to learn the concept of jutsu if brought up by her opponent"

The question is not about whether she could learn it. what isimportant is the level she could use it at. For example, so many people know the concept of katon. Yet, kid obito's fire jutsu =/= Itachi's =/= Madara's. And gwen's power isn't really as high as the high tiers.

"Off point; someone better resurrect dwayne and kill that fatboy or at least sell ben 10 to someone that can expanciate on his potential well enough for me not to be afraid of defending him in a debate"

A good amount of ben's aliens have nice feats, though.

@tetreaxatron: well his re-incarnate is currently working his way up the ladder, i hate the current writers and artists, they disfigured the ben10 multiverse in everyway.

Disfigured????? Dude they killed him for me that fatboy had better resign or I kill him! In this place seeing is believing , kaguya has ebough feats to basically bitch slap granny but if they expanciated on her character more often , infact ALL characters in ben 10 granny could easily retaliate/ pull a win but until that happens I can safely accept kaguya as the winner, I mean a reality warper who got her arse kicked by a love child of spiderman and my gym partner's a monkey?... Yeah sorry granny NONE of ben's aliens have above city busting feats, the writers just hide behind alien X and crap on sooo much potential.... Its sad

Ok enough ranting, granny is strong, she could even win if those idiots improve and give us more insight on their characters , but for now I concede defeat and accept kaguya as the victor

OP; (alternate crack ending) starbeard bangs their reality warping brains out!!!!!

Op 2; someone should really take ben 10 away from man of action o sure they made some good cartoons generator rex, secret saturdays etc. But they obviously were not ready for the big leagues and didn't know what to do when ben went a little upper class I mean the only reason most of us if not all of us stuck through the childish nonsense that was omniverse was because of feedback, gravattack and the fact that we are true fans so please I'm requesting someone do a 'what's the best crossover for ben 10' in the off topic forum.... I'd do it myself but my computer is crapped ergo I can't send links

Thanks!

@tetraxatron: As it's own stand alone show, I actually like Omniverse. As being part of the main continuity, I absolutely despise it.

Yeah I can see how that plays out, what really disappointed me was the hype they biult up for it only to be utterly diappointed whoever is making the fifth series DO NOT have DJW as an art director PLEASE

@gizmorino: @tetraxatron: DJ Wyatt made a very stupid decision/limitation on Alien X, saying that even he can't survive on Anur Vladias and they limit Celestialsapiens too much. He doesn't even bother to give Anodites or the Diagon high-level feats.

See! They just hated their own series!!! Jeez dywane WHY ;-(

Anyway abit off topic here but where would our favourite green teen fit the most? Dc, marvel, anime and what would his role be