Venom vs Omega Red

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#1  Edited By ShadowPro

this is a fight that I wanna see in venom's comic

Flash Venom

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vs

Omega Red

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morals off, standard equipment, battle take place in NY, flash can lose control of the symbiote any time

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D3athstroke

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#2  Edited By D3athstroke

Current Venom (who is possessed by high level demon) and without morals ? interesting..

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k4tzm4n

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#3  Edited By k4tzm4n  Moderator

This is actually pretty interesting.  While Omega Red would destroy an in control Flash (there's really no disputing that one), it's unclear what the upper limits of an out-of-control Flash are. His strength and durability are boosted significantly. His strength has ripped open massive security doors, ragdolled Carnage and much more.  
 
It's clear he'd absolutely have the strength advantage over Arkady in that event (Omega Red has 10 ton strength).  However, it's important to remember that Omega Red is no stranger to fighting characters stronger than him (Colossus). While he might not be able to match Venom blow for blow in sheer strength, his durability means he'll be difficult to keep down for the count. It's going to take a lot from Venom to incapacitate or knock out Arkady, but it's definitively a possibility over time, albeit being an uphill struggle.
 
Venom receives a durability boost while losing control, but I have a feeling that'll be a moot point against the X-Men villain's life drain ability (applied via touch). While Brock Venom was immune to toxins and more, Flash Venom wasn't (see his battle with Kraven for an example of this). Venom might be able to slash and smash Red, but Red just needs to wrap a carbonadium coil around Flash's ankle (or really anywhere else) and he can quite literally bring Flash down hugely right when he applies the ability. We don't know Flash's upper limits when he's lost control, but I think it's fair to speculate that death spores applied through touch would work on Flash's symbiote. After all, they made Colossus' skin weak enough that he could rip through the X-Man's armored skin with his fingers.  
 
Naturally, Colossus' organic armor and the symbiote are very different, but because Remender's/Bunn's Flash can be hindered by toxins/poisons (once again, the fight with Kraven), I'm confident life drain would impact Venom. From there, Arkady has what it takes to eliminate the anti-hero.  I imagine it won't be easy by any measure, though. Regardless of the winner, this is going to be drawn out, violent, and damage quite a few nearby buildings since I can see both being tossed around.  
 
When Flash loses control, he turns quite violent and that's what he'll need to win here. Unfortunately for him, I believe Arkady's durability, healing factor (went toe-to-toe with Wolverine for IIRC over 18 hours and was just fine), carbonadium coils and life drain grant him the ability to take a beating and then deliver one in return.  Flash can certainly take some wins (once again, only if he loses control), but overall I see Omega Red outlasting Venom. 
  
As for the ratio, Arkady earns a few wins for eliminating Flash before he can lose control to a significant degree, and then when he does lose control, I imagine Red takes a small majority.  Based on that, I'd say Arkady Rossovich should take 7/10. 
 
(Apologies if there's typos, it's late and I'm tired)

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#4  Edited By Oni_Bane

@k4tzm4n said:

This is actually pretty interesting. While Omega Red would destroy an in control Flash (there's really no disputing that one), it's unclear what the upper limits of an out-of-control Flash are. His strength and durability are boosted significantly. His strength has ripped open massive security doors, ragdolled Carnage and much more.

It's clear he'd absolutely have the strength advantage over Arkady in that event (Omega Red has 10 ton strength). However, it's important to remember that Omega Red is no stranger to fighting characters stronger than him (Colossus). While he might not be able to match Venom blow for blow in sheer strength, his durability means he'll be difficult to keep down for the count. It's going to take a lot from Venom to incapacitate or knock out Arkady, but it's definitively a possibility over time, albeit being an uphill struggle.

Venom receives a durability boost while losing control, but I have a feeling that'll be a moot point against the X-Men villain's life drain ability (applied via touch). While Brock Venom was immune to toxins and more, Flash Venom wasn't (see his battle with Kraven for an example of this). Venom might be able to slash and smash Red, but Red just needs to wrap a carbonadium coil around Flash's ankle (or really anywhere else) and he can quite literally bring Flash down hugely right when he applies the ability. We don't know Flash's upper limits when he's lost control, but I think it's fair to speculate that death spores applied through touch would work on Flash's symbiote. After all, they made Colossus' skin weak enough that he could rip through the X-Man's armored skin with his fingers.

Naturally, Colossus' organic armor and the symbiote are very different, but because Remender's/Bunn's Flash can be hindered by toxins/poisons (once again, the fight with Kraven), I'm confident life drain would impact Venom. From there, Arkady has what it takes to eliminate the anti-hero. I imagine it won't be easy by any measure, though. Regardless of the winner, this is going to be drawn out, violent, and damage quite a few nearby buildings since I can see both being tossed around.

When Flash loses control, he turns quite violent and that's what he'll need to win here. Unfortunately for him, I believe Arkady's durability, healing factor (went toe-to-toe with Wolverine for IIRC over 18 hours and was just fine), carbonadium coils and life drain grant him the ability to take a beating and then deliver one in return. Flash can certainly take some wins (once again, only if he loses control), but overall I see Omega Red outlasting Venom.

As for the ratio, Arkady earns a few wins for eliminating Flash before he can lose control to a significant degree, and then when he does lose control, I imagine Red takes a small majority. Based on that, I'd say Arkady Rossovich should take 7/10. (Apologies if there's typos, it's late and I'm tired)

You convinced me, well said.

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k4tzm4n

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#5  Edited By k4tzm4n  Moderator
@Oni_Bane: Thanks.
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#6  Edited By FLCL1

@k4tzm4n said:

@Oni_Bane: Thanks.

leave it to k4t to solve a perfectly good thread.

GIVE US A CHANCE!!!!!!!!!

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k4tzm4n

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#7  Edited By k4tzm4n  Moderator

@FLCL1: Hey, there's still plenty to discuss :P

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theTimeStreamer

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#8  Edited By theTimeStreamer

death spores for the win

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Bo88gdan

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#9  Edited By Bo88gdan

Omega red Wins

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asIsuspected

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#10  Edited By asIsuspected

@k4tzm4n said:

This is actually pretty interesting. While Omega Red would destroy an in control Flash (there's really no disputing that one), it's unclear what the upper limits of an out-of-control Flash are. His strength and durability are boosted significantly. His strength has ripped open massive security doors, ragdolled Carnage and much more.

It's clear he'd absolutely have the strength advantage over Arkady in that event (Omega Red has 10 ton strength). However, it's important to remember that Omega Red is no stranger to fighting characters stronger than him (Colossus). While he might not be able to match Venom blow for blow in sheer strength, his durability means he'll be difficult to keep down for the count. It's going to take a lot from Venom to incapacitate or knock out Arkady, but it's definitively a possibility over time, albeit being an uphill struggle.

Venom receives a durability boost while losing control, but I have a feeling that'll be a moot point against the X-Men villain's life drain ability (applied via touch). While Brock Venom was immune to toxins and more, Flash Venom wasn't (see his battle with Kraven for an example of this). Venom might be able to slash and smash Red, but Red just needs to wrap a carbonadium coil around Flash's ankle (or really anywhere else) and he can quite literally bring Flash down hugely right when he applies the ability. We don't know Flash's upper limits when he's lost control, but I think it's fair to speculate that death spores applied through touch would work on Flash's symbiote. After all, they made Colossus' skin weak enough that he could rip through the X-Man's armored skin with his fingers.

Naturally, Colossus' organic armor and the symbiote are very different, but because Remender's/Bunn's Flash can be hindered by toxins/poisons (once again, the fight with Kraven), I'm confident life drain would impact Venom. From there, Arkady has what it takes to eliminate the anti-hero. I imagine it won't be easy by any measure, though. Regardless of the winner, this is going to be drawn out, violent, and damage quite a few nearby buildings since I can see both being tossed around.

When Flash loses control, he turns quite violent and that's what he'll need to win here. Unfortunately for him, I believe Arkady's durability, healing factor (went toe-to-toe with Wolverine for IIRC over 18 hours and was just fine), carbonadium coils and life drain grant him the ability to take a beating and then deliver one in return. Flash can certainly take some wins (once again, only if he loses control), but overall I see Omega Red outlasting Venom.

As for the ratio, Arkady earns a few wins for eliminating Flash before he can lose control to a significant degree, and then when he does lose control, I imagine Red takes a small majority. Based on that, I'd say Arkady Rossovich should take 7/10. (Apologies if there's typos, it's late and I'm tired)

this

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slimj87d

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#11  Edited By slimj87d
@k4tzm4n: Do you think it's because Flash isn't as bonded to the symbiote as other host were? Brock and Gargan pretty much healed from wounds instantly, it's almost like they were apart of the symbiote. While Flash seems to be a human inside of the suit and can get wounded. It seems like the suit has to concentrate on healing him. 
 
I think the mechanics behind Flash Venom are vastly different from other symbiote users. What are your 2 cents? 
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#12  Edited By BringnIt

Difficult to ascertain. While k4tzm4n's analysis is spot on, Flash is bonded more completely to the symbiote than he was at the time of his battle with Kraven. Also, while Flash hasn't displayed the ability yet--he hasn't really needed to--the Venom symbiote protected Brock from the lethaility of Styx's carcinogenic touch and the Carnage symbiote displayed the ability to allow its host's survival for an extended period of time in an environment in which Kasady couldn't breathe, namely the time Sentry flew Carnage to space and ripped him in half. While Omega Red has effectively combatted classic Colossus, more recently Spider-Man displayed the necessary strength to physically rip carbonadium in half, so depending on which is viewed as the more relevant instance, a Vulked out Flash has the capability to do so as well. Prior to losing control Flash has pretty high agility, moreso than Wolverine, who has dodged Arkady's tentacles easily enough at times and he could also potentially use his webbing for good effect.

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k4tzm4n

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#13  Edited By k4tzm4n  Moderator

@SlimJ87D said:

@k4tzm4n: Do you think it's because Flash isn't as bonded to the symbiote as other host were? Brock and Gargan pretty much healed from wounds instantly, it's almost like they were apart of the symbiote. While Flash seems to be a human inside of the suit and can get wounded. It seems like the suit has to concentrate on healing him. I think the mechanics behind Flash Venom are vastly different from other symbiote users. What are your 2 cents?

He wasn't at the time, or it could simply be another writer's take on the limitations of the symibote (regarding poisons) despite history not being on his side. Flash heals from wounds nearly simultaneously as well (vs Taskmaster or Jack O'Lantern for example), despite proving to be less resistance immediately to cutting/stabbing attacks than the likes of Brock. But aside from that Kraven incident, it's widely functioned the same (growing with rage and becoming stronger was introduced with Gargan, after all).

@BringnIt: RE: Carbonadium - I was actually going to bring that up but then decided against it. While carbonadium is indeed less durable than adamantium, it's still dubbed "virtually indestructible." As sill as this may sound, I viewed Spider-Man's feat in 'Ends of the Earth' to be a strength feat propelled by willpower (like the time he lifted the debris). Based on that feat alone, is it theoretically possible Flash could destroy Arkady's coils? Yes, it indeed is since Flash is stronger than Pete. But that's not something I thought would play a singificant role in the battle. Because, after all, if Arkady has Venom constrained in his coils, he's also using life drain, which in theory should be weakening the symbiote.

Also, when you say "classic" Colossus, I assume you just mean pre-cyttorak, yes? While I concur Flash has the agility and means to give Arkady a tough time, I by no means think he's qualified to take a majority without losing control. Even then, I'm inclined to give a slight edge to Omega Red for the reasons previously stated.

As for the Styx incident, yes, the symbiote will logically take the brunt of the damage when it comes to life drain, but without the symbiote supporting him (and in a weakened state), there's not a whole lot Flash can truly due to overcome Arkady in such a state.

Good chat, man, and thanks for bringing up topics I left out.

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#14  Edited By BringnIt

While I do agree that Peter was at his peak in that particular instance, much as he has been at various times in comic history--such as the Daily Bugle instance, rushing to get May her medicine, lifting a subway car and using himself as landing gear to stop an airplane, all feats that make me scoff at his 10-ton official rating--in his battle with Vulked out Flash he was clearly inferior in strength and had every motivation to be at the top of his game there, fearing for the life of Betty Brant at the time, as I'm sure you know. I also brought up at the time that it's possible that the Ends of the Earth armor increased his strength in addition to his durability, although it was never alluded to. As to the death spores/life drain, I'm just not sure to what degree they would weaken a fully unleashed Venom symbiote user, as in most if not all cases Flash has been struggling against the symbiote when it goes berserker, and in this scenario he'd be embracing it fully. I tend to think that this battle is a toss up, with insufficient evidence to say one character takes a majority.

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#15  Edited By slimj87d
@k4tzm4n: Gargan had his torso blown apart and healed pretty quickly from that. Carnage had his neck snapped and then his head was cut off later in that same story arc and he healed pretty quickly after that. He actually created a new body.  
 
I feel that Flash's healing is not as fast or up to par as the other symbiote users unless if he losses control. 
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#16  Edited By ShadowPro

@SlimJ87D said:

@k4tzm4n: Gargan had his torso blown apart and healed pretty quickly from that. Carnage had his neck snapped and then his head was cut off later in that same story arc and he healed pretty quickly after that. He actually created a new body. I feel that Flash's healing is not as fast or up to par as the other symbiote users unless if he losses control.

Carnage had his neck snapped and then his head was cut off? O.M.G. when did that happen?

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#17  Edited By slimj87d
@ShadowPro: Minimum Carnage series. His head crawled away and reformed a new body, was kinda weird. But yeah, the more tuned in your are with the symbiote the more symbiote you are than human from what I noticed. Venom and Carnage have been able to enter in phone lines with their symbiotes, another weird stupid story.  
 
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k4tzm4n

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#18  Edited By k4tzm4n  Moderator

@SlimJ87D: I was only referring to the Venom symbiotes history, not symbiote history as a whole. So that's why I didn't compare/contrast examples from Carnage or even Toxin.

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#19  Edited By ShadowPro

@SlimJ87D: right, of course, Minimum carnage, I'm stupid like a moose, I just read the comic and I didn't notice... I thought it was a clone, thanks for the help

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#20  Edited By k4tzm4n  Moderator

@ShadowPro said:

@SlimJ87D: right, of course, Minimum carnage, I'm stupid like a moose, I just read the comic and I didn't notice... I thought it was a clone, thanks for the help

In case you missed it, the first issue of 'Minimum Carnage' has the neck snap incident.

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TheAmazingImmortalMan

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Omega Red wins slight majority imo 6/10

@k4tzm4n: your analysis was spot on

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#22  Edited By RubyVisor

I'm going to say Flash. Fully unleashed, and possessed by a demon, who's to say Flash couldn't summon beasts from Hell, like in Monsters of Evil, paired with his superior strength, when he loses control. I think he overwhelms Red.

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#23  Edited By k4tzm4n  Moderator
@TheAmazingImmortalMan said:

Omega Red wins slight majority imo 6/10

@k4tzm4n: your analysis was spot on

Thanks, man. 
 
@RubyVisor said:

@k4tzm4n I'm going to say Flash. Fully unleashed, and possessed by a demon, who's to say Flash couldn't summon beasts from Hell, like in Monsters of Evil, paired with his superior strength, when he loses control. I think he overwhelms Red.

He didn't summon the Monsters of Evil (Hellstrom did), he simply was able to command them.
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#24  Edited By TDK_1997

I think that Omega Red can do things properly he can beat Flash.

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#25  Edited By ShadowPro

@k4tzm4n: thaks for the info, I'm so focused.in the text that I miss those little deatils

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#26  Edited By RubyVisor

@k4tzm4n said:

@TheAmazingImmortalMan said:

Omega Red wins slight majority imo 6/10

@k4tzm4n: your analysis was spot on

Thanks, man.

@RubyVisor said:

@k4tzm4n I'm going to say Flash. Fully unleashed, and possessed by a demon, who's to say Flash couldn't summon beasts from Hell, like in Monsters of Evil, paired with his superior strength, when he loses control. I think he overwhelms Red.

He didn't summon the Monsters of Evil (Hellstrom did), he simply was able to command them.

Who's to say he couldn't though? If he's able to control them, couldn't it be possible he could summon them?

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#27  Edited By k4tzm4n  Moderator

@RubyVisor said:

@k4tzm4n said:

@TheAmazingImmortalMan said:

Omega Red wins slight majority imo 6/10

@k4tzm4n: your analysis was spot on

Thanks, man.

@RubyVisor said:

@k4tzm4n I'm going to say Flash. Fully unleashed, and possessed by a demon, who's to say Flash couldn't summon beasts from Hell, like in Monsters of Evil, paired with his superior strength, when he loses control. I think he overwhelms Red.

He didn't summon the Monsters of Evil (Hellstrom did), he simply was able to command them.

Who's to say he couldn't though? If he's able to control them, couldn't it be possible he could summon them?

Who's to say he currently can?

Down the road? Possibly when they expand that story. But as of right now there's nothing to indicate he would currently do so in a fight.