Venom (Flash Thompson) vs Scarlet Spider (Kaine)

No prep

Morals off

Death or Knockout

Fight takes place in NY

Neither knows what the other is capable of

VS

How strong is Flash as Venom?

How strong is Flash as Venom?

@Illuminatus said:

If I remember correctly, he was able to lift a tank without much difficulty.

Pics?

I don't know Kaine's upper limit so far, but he seems to be as strong as Spider-man at his peak, retains the night vision also and stingers plus organic webbing. 
 
So lets assume Kaine is at 20 tons. He lacks a clear advantage though, the original scarlet Spider (Ben Reilly) had a spider-sense that could work against the Venom symbiote. Actually Kaine lacks a spider-sense period. 
 
@slacker the hacker: Who is in control here? Is this Flash in complete control or is the symbiote in control? 
 
This is a hard decision... but I think Flash would win because of Kaine's lack in experience as compared to Spider-man who has fought  the symbiote quite a bit. Venom is way too durable and I don't know if Kaine has enough experience with symbiotes to try and expose all of its weaknesses. 
 
Venom's healing factor is also off the charts and rivals Wolverines. 
 
Kaine is in big trouble.

@Deadcool said:

@Illuminatus said:

If I remember correctly, he was able to lift a tank without much difficulty.

Pics?

@InnerVenom123@venomoushatred1001

@Illuminatus said:

@Deadcool said:

@Illuminatus said:

If I remember correctly, he was able to lift a tank without much difficulty.

Pics?

@InnerVenom123@venomoushatred1001

Here ya go.

Does Flash get to Venom-out? That could very well be a deciding factor.

@InnerVenom123 Thanks.

@Illuminatus: No prob. If you need more scans just ask.

We haven't seen what Kaine's full potential is yet so its to premature to say who would win (I'd guess Venom as every incarnation has roughly the same powers)

A lot does depend on whether Flash can go full-on venom and has his gun. Sure, Kaine doesn't have a Spider-Sense or much experience, but he does have The Other powers, and keep in mind that Ben Reilly managed to beat Eddie Brock when he was still completely out of practice, while Eddie was much more bonded to the symbiote than Flash. But then, Ben did lose to Eddie in their first fight, and had to build better webshooters to beat him in round 2. Kaine basically knows nothing about science and has organic webshooters, so no chance of that repeating. Plus The symbiote seems to have gotten MUCH stronger over the last two decades.

As of now, Flash has the advantage. But Kaine's only had a little over one issue to prove himself, so this topic needs revisiting in a few months.

Kaine doesn't have spider-man's spider sense though.

A lot does depend on whether Flash can go full-on venom and has his gun. Sure, Kaine doesn't have a Spider-Sense or much experience, but he does have The Other powers, and keep in mind that Ben Reilly managed to beat Eddie Brock when he was still completely out of practice, while Eddie was much more bonded to the symbiote than Flash. But then, Ben did lose to Eddie in their first fight, and had to build better webshooters to beat him in round 2. Kaine basically knows nothing about science and has organic webshooters, so no chance of that repeating. Plus The symbiote seems to have gotten MUCH stronger over the last two decades.

As of now, Flash has the advantage. But Kaine's only had a little over one issue to prove himself, so this topic needs revisiting in a few months.

@Deadcool said:

How strong is Flash as Venom?

If I remember correctly, he was able to lift a tank without much difficulty.

Flash Thompson FTW. Kaine CAN win, but it'll be maybe 2+/10 here if he does...

@SlimJ87D said:

I don't know Kaine's upper limit so far, but he seems to be as strong as Spider-man at his peak, retains the night vision also and stingers plus organic webbing.

So lets assume Kaine is at 20 tons. He lacks a clear advantage though, the original scarlet Spider (Ben Reilly) had a spider-sense that could work against the Venom symbiote. Actually Kaine lacks a spider-sense period.

@slacker the hacker: Who is in control here? Is this Flash in complete control or is the symbiote in control? This is a hard decision... but I think Flash would win because of Kaine's lack in experience as compared to Spider-man who has fought the symbiote quite a bit. Venom is way too durable and I don't know if Kaine has enough experience with symbiotes to try and expose all of its weaknesses. Venom's healing factor is also off the charts and rivals Wolverines. Kaine is in big trouble.

Flash

@kingjoeg said:

Kaine doesn't have spider-man's spider sense though.

I think he does have a spider sense and I think its work on Venom.

Venom

this new venom is awesome!

Thompson FTW.

Like a lot of them said it's a tough call to make because we still haven't seen a lot of what Kaine can do after his healing but since his powers atleast seem to be the same as Peter's after he was brought back I guess it's safe to use that as an example. Kaine is defiantly stronger than Peter and even Peter has lifted tanks in his past so strength wise I'll say in his base form Kaine and Flash are fairly even but Venomed out Flash will have the advantage strength wise. In terms of speed and agility I'll say Kaine because it seems that after his rebirth his movements match Peter and he has always been more agile than a Venom. In terms of hand to hand i think Flash as an army vet will more than likely take that but Kaine is a seasoned brawler so even for someone officially trained he may not go down easy.

Flash's biggest advantage will probably be his durability but even that is limited so his stingers may get past the suit but I fairly certain that Venom can handle the venom from Kaine's stingers. Now most people have been saying that Kaine doesn't have a Spider-sense but considering how he is more like Peter now it's possible he has a Spider-sense only stronger since his was already different from Peter's and Peter's became stronger after he died also his Spider-sense should work on Venom as like Ben he was cloned before Peter had the suit so his body shouldn't recognize as a part of him.

Also a factor a lot of people missed is that Kaine kept Peter's stealth suit which means he can make himself both invisible and unaudible which is a big move because Kaine could pretty much chip away at Venom before he could maybe land some hits. I think that based off the suit, and enhanced powers I think it's fair to say Kaine may win this but this isn't a 100% and since is based mostly off the feats of a different character it's hard to really claim a winner.

@SlimJ87D said:

I don't know Kaine's upper limit so far, but he seems to be as strong as Spider-man at his peak, retains the night vision also and stingers plus organic webbing.

So lets assume Kaine is at 20 tons. He lacks a clear advantage though, the original scarlet Spider (Ben Reilly) had a spider-sense that could work against the Venom symbiote. Actually Kaine lacks a spider-sense period.

@slacker the hacker: Who is in control here? Is this Flash in complete control or is the symbiote in control? This is a hard decision... but I think Flash would win because of Kaine's lack in experience as compared to Spider-man who has fought the symbiote quite a bit. Venom is way too durable and I don't know if Kaine has enough experience with symbiotes to try and expose all of its weaknesses. Venom's healing factor is also off the charts and rivals Wolverines. Kaine is in big trouble.

Very true, but who is in control doesnt really matter. Once the fight is prolongued, venom will take control either once he gets extremely angry or the fights goes on for over an hr.

Either way, the way i see it Venom, stronger, faster , more durable, insane healing factor (healed back his whole leg in a matter of 2 panel, not something even Deadpool has done). Barring his weakness against sound, he has every advantage in a fight.

this is gonna be a curbstomp.

FT wins.

Thompson rocks Kaine

On paper, Flash. Kaine has been more impressive in combat overall, I'd say. Mark of Kaine should hurt the Symbiote as well if Carnage is any indication.

@BringnIt: comment on my forum Arcangel vs Flash Thompson

@darktiger Make me.

@venomoushatred1001 said:

Thompson FTW.

@BringnIt said:

@darktiger Make me.

LOL

Thompson. He is much more stronger and durable than Kaine. However, I think Kaine is a bit faster than him. Not by much. I wouldn't say Thompson stomps but he does win.

@ThatThorFan: no thompson does stomp

@darktiger said:

@ThatThorFan: no thompson does stomp

I disagree. Kaine seems to have more impressive combat showings (dodging a point blank sniper bullet in scarlet spider#3, causing a very large crater in scarlet spider #2, etc) not to mention the stealth suit plays a role. The main issue is flashes durability which will be a bit of a problem but even so...The again Flash did pretty good against spider-man in venom #4. Not sure which way this will go but it is not a stomp.

@Spiderslike said:

Like a lot of them said it's a tough call to make because we still haven't seen a lot of what Kaine can do after his healing but since his powers atleast seem to be the same as Peter's after he was brought back I guess it's safe to use that as an example. Kaine is defiantly stronger than Peter and even Peter has lifted tanks in his past so strength wise I'll say in his base form Kaine and Flash are fairly even but Venomed out Flash will have the advantage strength wise. In terms of speed and agility I'll say Kaine because it seems that after his rebirth his movements match Peter and he has always been more agile than a Venom. In terms of hand to hand i think Flash as an army vet will more than likely take that but Kaine is a seasoned brawler so even for someone officially trained he may not go down easy.

Flash's biggest advantage will probably be his durability but even that is limited so his stingers may get past the suit but I fairly certain that Venom can handle the venom from Kaine's stingers. Now most people have been saying that Kaine doesn't have a Spider-sense but considering how he is more like Peter now it's possible he has a Spider-sense only stronger since his was already different from Peter's and Peter's became stronger after he died also his Spider-sense should work on Venom as like Ben he was cloned before Peter had the suit so his body shouldn't recognize as a part of him.

Also a factor a lot of people missed is that Kaine kept Peter's stealth suit which means he can make himself both invisible and unaudible which is a big move because Kaine could pretty much chip away at Venom before he could maybe land some hits. I think that based off the suit, and enhanced powers I think it's fair to say Kaine may win this but this isn't a 100% and since is based mostly off the feats of a different character it's hard to really claim a winner.

Being as how he's now similiar to Peter. Seeing Peter adapt against enemies is impressive. Do you think that Kaine could do the same now? If fight was continued and he had prep time.

I honestly think if we had old school Kaine back with the suite and some of the stingers he has now. Old school Kaine could probley handle Venom FT not venomed out he would beat him pretty bad. Old School Kaine with the suit and stingers now would do much better. He didn't really hold back then. I might just be rambling.

@jashro44 The Mark of Kaine, which you pointed out to me he still has, damaged Carnage's face pretty bad during the Clone Saga. It's likely it could do some damage to Venom. Also, not directed to you specifically, but Kaine doesn't have the feats to support being stronger than Peter currently and any strength ranges being thrown out for him are speculative and based on Peter's powers during The Other.

I think Kaine holds back more against enemies as Scarlet Spider. Not wanting to hurt them like Spider-Man

@Hero4life That is correct.

@BringnIt: That's why I think Kaine if not in the Scarlet Spider character would have a better chance.

@BringnIt said:

@jashro44 The Mark of Kaine, which you pointed out to me he still has, damaged Carnage's face pretty bad during the Clone Saga. It's likely it could do some damage to Venom. Also, not directed to you specifically, but Kaine doesn't have the feats to support being stronger than Peter currently and any strength ranges being thrown out for him are speculative and based on Peter's powers during The Other.

I agree 100%. The mark of kaine is what makes this so difficult. Flash seemed to have the upper hand on peter from what I remember and I think him and kaine are about equal physically (based off the size of the crater kaine caused in issue 2 of scarlet spider vs the one spider-man caused when he punched venom I think they were similar in size) but the mark of kaine will allow him to hurt venom. I think this could go either way personally.

@jashro44 Yeah, and Flash hasn't been netting many victories lately either. His comic has turned pretty gruesome in my opinion and he hasn't had any decisive victories over his rogues and he should be amply motivated with the current storyline.

@BringnIt: I haven't really been up to date with venom to be honest. I'm missing issue 17 so not really sure what flash has done recently.

@jeanroygrant said:

Venom

@venomoushatred1001 said:

Thompson FTW.

Venom.

Standing by my stance, I think Kaine beats him and I'd also like to add stingers and superior combat reflexes to my earlier posts as to my rationale why.

It's still hard to say for me personally, Flash is still very very new, and a lot of the situations he's put in require manuvering to victory rather than outright domination of an enemy. For example, Savage Six his focus was on saving his mom, Betty, and his sister. Not on pummeling the Six into submission. He's always been either fighting the symbiote's control (most of his early issues), or been focused on accomplishing a mission (such as Savage Six). That being said he has had some impressive turn-arounds, and his never quit attitude has helped (think touching Fly's acid bare handed to clear his head of Death Adder's poison and re-focus, before easily killing Death Adder himself). His fight against Peter he wasn't trying to hurt Peter, he was trying to save Betty and regain control of the symbiote, so that's a hard comparison to make. Kaine is more experienced and likely faster now that the symbiote is drugged and not as powerful, but Flash I'd wager is still tougher, and stronger. I think with the drugged symbiote Flash is in for a tough fight, and his lack of experience might cost him a few battles, but I think Flash can edge out a win 6/10 times.

Assuming Flash cannot let the symbiote take over, Kaine should absolutely take this.

@GraniteSoldier:

Death Adder's poison and re-focus, before easily killing Death Adder himself

To be fair, Venom only took Death Adder's life because the villain diverted his attention from the hero. Flash was given a chance to recover and attack while Death Adder attempted to attack residents in the complex. Prior to that, Adder was messing him up rather well IMO.

@k4tzm4n: Death Adder was definately giving him hell, after an ambush. And it looked like Death Adder was more running from Flash at that point, but I guess that's undefined perspective. Once Flash "cleared his head" by punching his bare hand on Fly's acid he started tossing Adder around handily, and Adder took off. They did show the woman and her child and it isn't really clear, to me at least, if he was distracted by them or not. But he was definately trying to get away from Flash.

@GraniteSoldier: I understand where you're coming from. I'm just not seeing how snapping the neck of an opponent when his back is turned is a note-worthy feat, especially in comparison to everything else Flash has done over the course of the series. If it's for his strength, he has stronger feats. If it's for skill, well, it's not really anything worth praising.

@k4tzm4n: Ah I'm tracking now. My apologies. Yeah I should have used something better you're right, it was just recent and came to mind easily. Not my best argument.

@GraniteSoldier: Fret not, it's all good.

@venomoushatred1001 said:

Thompson FTW.

agreed