Veitha's Karma Tourney Round 1:Sovereign91001vsJuiceboks

Location: New York City. Inside a Bank.

For your first mission the evil teams will have to prove to be able to be the most classical thing that an evil team does: steal and kill.

On the other hand, the good team will have to protect and to arrest.

In fact the missions for each teams are the followings:

- The Evil Team will have to go inside a bank and steal the diamonds inside it.They have planned this attack for a week because they knew that there would have been a group of superheroes or at least a group of armed soldiers to protect the bank.

And guess what, they will find both. There are five soldiers equipped with a gun inside the bank and your team will have to go past them to steal the diamonds and then escape. All of your team needs is to escape before the good team arrests them and they will have to kill any witness. The diamonds are contained inside a force field that will take twenty minutes to be turned off, so your team won't be able to just teleport inside the bank and then teleport away, but they will have to wait twenty minutes before they can do so.

- The Good team will have to stay inside the bank, protect the diamonds and arrest the evil team. They were told by an informant about the members of the Evil team and what they wanted to do but they didn't have time to create a plan. They are helped by five soldiers with guns but they will also have to protect the soldiers from the evil team and to prevent any killing. They won't kill their enemies because, y'know, heroes don't kill and they have to prevent killings, or at least let only one soldier survive.

To sum up, the objectives are these:

- Evil Team:

1. Steal the diamonds and survive against the Good team for twenty minutes.

2. Kill all the soldiers and try to kill the superheroes(killing the heroes is optional).

- Good Team:

1. Arrest the Evil Team before they escape by incapacitation or KO.

2. Make sure that at least one soldier survives.

The soldiers have only got a gun and a special armor which gives them some enhanced durability, enough to take one superhuman hit and to take some bullets. You can't bring them in another dimension or stuff like this, you can't even leave the place for another dimension(it's considered self-BFR).

For each team there will be these rules and perks:

- Evil Team:

1. Prep-time. During their prep-time they can do everything they would do in character, but they can't do things such as build or bring a Cosmic Cube or stuff like that. They've got a day of prep-time.

2. Morals off. Your team has got no morals and it's willing to kill the other.

3. No knowledge: your team doesn't know who their enemies are.

4. If there's any bad blood in your team it will come into play.

- Good Team:

1. Full knowledge. Your team has got full knowledge about your enemies. They know their skills and powers and they also know their backgrounds and weakness.

2. Team chemistry. Your team cooperates perfectly.

3. Morals on and no bloodlusted, so they won't be likely to kill or use brute strenght.

4. No prep-time, so your team won't have time to create a tactic or to bring objects with them.

The best debater will be chosen by votes. You can also chose not to accomplish a mission and to focus on the other, but the voters may judge badly because of this.

- NO BFR or insta-kill stuff;

- You can't leave the place;

- Each team starts inside the bank with a distance of 200 metres. Yes, the bank is quite big, and there are also some civilians inside(it's optional for the teams to kill them or to protect them, but if you want to show that your team is very evil or very good then do that lol);

@sovereign91001 's team:

Street Level: Spider-Man (Peter)

Bruiser: Carol Danvers

Psionics: Psylocke

Energy Manipulator: Kyle Rayner

Wildcard: Doctor Fate (Hector Hall)

@juiceboks 's team:

Street Leveler: Kisame

Bruiser: Gin Ichimaru

Magic user: Blackheart.

Energy Manip: Darth Sidious

Wildcard: Doflamingo

@juiceboks

I'll start it off.

At the start of the battle I'll have Kyle start off by enveloping the section of the building we're in in a lantern bubble and Doctor Fate will make another barrier behind this one, Psylocke will psychically shield my team, and link everyone up.

If the barrier is breached via Blackheart's teleportation, Doctor Fate will teleport your team back outside the barrier and raise a barrier of order inside the bubble countering Blackheart's Chaos (Black) magic.

Psylocke will then info dump Kyle's Lantern Knowledge and skills into my team so they'll have his knowledge. With that accomplished she'll raise a telekinteic barrier behind Fate's magic one. Kyle will duplicate his ring for my team.

Each member of my team will now be equipped with a Green Lantern Ring and knowledge on how to access the other colors of the emotional spectrum. Using the ring Carol will use it to simulate the energy signature of a white Hole bringing her to Binary levels.

Each member of my team will raise bubbles of Lantern energy around the soldiers. Fate and Psylocke will drop their barriers and then my team attacks.

@sovereign91001 I hate to nitpick, but I don't believe it was Kyle's ring that can replicate. He had to borrow Hal's from the past to restart the Corps so you can't give everyone a ring.

Anyway, I'll state my prep in just a second.

This should be good

@juiceboks: Yes it can, he's done it on pannel, and he's also stated he can do it, I can provide scans if you want.

I'm sorry sovereign, I'm a huge Gin fanboy, so I'm probably gonna have to vote for Juicebocks based solely off that.

@dratini1331 said:

... I hope your joking. You're supposed to vote off our arguments, not based on perceived strength of team or because your a fan of the character/debater. Now if Juiceboks out argues me that's one thing but because he's using a character you like is not a reason to give a debater a vote.

@sovereign91001: See, this is why English needs a font for sarcasm or jokes. Or at least a punctuation mark for them.

@sovereign91001 So here's what happens in a day.

Blackheart takes some of the people around New York(lets say..20) into his realm for Spirit of Vengeance induction. Wherein he will do the similar thing he did to create Verminus Rex and the rest of his spirits. These new spirits will have a portion of Blackheart's powers and will at least be equal to Skullhead himself.

While this is happening, Sidious will focus his foresight into seeing what your team will do.

The planet Chandrila sponsored a monthlong retreat for members of the Legislative Youth Program. Once a year young beings from a host of worlds arrived to participate in mock Senate trials in and around Hanna City and to tour Chandrila’s vast agricultural projects, wilderness areas, coral reefs, and garden parks. It was in Gladean Park—a game reserve outside coastal Hanna—that Plagueis paid young Palpatine an unannounced visit. But it was Plagueis who was surprised.

“I knew you would come, Magister,” Palpatine said when Plagueis and 11-4D turned up at one of the game reserve’s viewing blinds.

“How did you know?”

“I knew, that’s all.”

“And just how often are your premonitions correct?”

“Almost always.”

“Curious,” 11-4D remarked while Palpatine was hurrying away to excuse himself from the company of two friends.

--Taken from Darth Plagueis

He'll see that Psylocke is a powerful psychic, and will focus his mind on assaulting her's once the battle begins. He will also start to subtlety influence the armed soldiers over the course of the day. So as soon as the battle begins, they turn on your team.

Gin, Kisame and Doflamingo go get an ice cream in Central Park or something. One thing to note though is that since Gin is a Shinigami, he will only be visible to those with spiritual attunement. Something Blackheart and Sidious can certainly provide for Kisame and Doflamingo. As far as I know, only Fate would be able to see him. Maybe.

So I arrive to the scene with 20 SoV ready to wreak havoc (lets call them mini Blackheart's) and the soldiers ready to gun you down as soon as the fight starts, something which you won't know until the battle begins.

@juiceboks: Psylocke has spiritual awareness, what with her ninja training and various battles in the astral plane. My team's full knowledge make's Gin's invisibility not a problem, they would know about it prior to the battle, it wouldn't take much for Fate to either cast a spell to make him visible or grant my team the ability to see a spirit.

The guards also don't present much of a problem, I have Spider-Man and Carol, both of whom have danger senses both of whom can nuetralize the guards fairly easily or Psylocke could put them to sleep, regardless it shouldn't be a problem, almost everyone on my team has bullet time reactions and those that don't (Fate & Kyle) The bullets are a non issue. As far as the Spirits of Vengance, my team can channel the Orange light of Avarice and make an army of Orange Lanterns.

EDIT: I don't think you can even make SOV's as we can't self-BFR.

@dratini1331: Well you could've put a: jk, :P, XP, lol, lmao...etc. Tone is kind of hard to ascertain with text.

@sovereign91001: I'll keep that in mind. I still vote vote the addition of a punctuation mark for jokes in the English language. And that's serious... or is it? =P

@juiceboks: he can't acces to his realm because it's self-BFR and he can't manipulate the guards before the battle start coz he doesn't know that there are guards.

@veitha Not even for prep? I was under the impression that rule only applied to the actual battle? And the OP says that my team knows there are gonna be guards there. Over and above that, I have one member with future sight.

@juiceboks: your team thins that there are going to be guards, but they don't know exactly if there are going to be. But if you have a member with future sight then you may know but you can't manipulate them.

well, if you go to his realm during prep then I think that it's alright, you just can't do crazy things.

@sovereign91001 I suspected as much. But remember you don't have prep time so if you cast a spell to see Gin then that takes away from your barrier to keep me out. Gin and Sidious's combat speed far outclasses your team so they have to be real quick on the draw to keep them at bay.

The guards are just there for a quick distraction(after what Veitha said I'll just make Blackheart tell them to attack your team) for Fate and Kyle(since they will be the one's who will get shot at) while Gin does this

And slices through everyone that isn't supersonic. Even Ichigo had trouble avoiding it when it was directed towards him. As for Sidious, he can blitz Anakin who can see sub light speed spacecraft in slow motion. So your team as a whole would be hard pressed to react to either of them. Over and above that, Sidious and Blackheart will both be mind controlling Psylocke while this happens. Psylocke is a formidable psychic, but her power pales in comparison to Sidious and Blackheart(I can provide feats if you want). Note that Sidious and Blackheart both have empathic powers as well. So your strategy to create and distribute rings amongst your team while safe in a bubble isn't going down like that.

@veitha Alright so I can't manipulate them for prep got it.

No doubt no doubt.

@juiceboks: Even so I have two, barriers, one being provided by Kyle and one by Fate, Kyle's autoshields will protect him from any bullet's so Gin's attack isn't getting through the first barrier, let alone the second. And my team can multi task dude, Fate can raise a barrier and cast a spell, Kyle is more than capable of making two constructs and like I said earlier Carol and Peter both have danger senses and both have reflexes capable of easily taking out the guards. And even if Fate couldn't multi-task Gin's attack can't get through the barrier to begin with so he can litterally sit there and wait until the last moment before the bubble's are dropped and then cast the spell. Psylocke has beaten Rachel Grey and the Shadow King in telepathic and astral combat respectively before and they both have Planetary level TP, and that was before she had her full telepathic potential unlocked so she's up there in terms of psychic muscle. I think she can hang for awhile and if she starts fading Kyle can channel the violet light of love, or the blue light of hope and help bolster her.

@sovereign91001 I dont doubt that your team can take care of the guards, what I'm expecting them to do is keep your attention on them for atleast a second while Gin blitzes with his sword. Only Peter and Carol would see it coming so Kyle and Fate will look over in astonishment as their allies suddenly open fire on them. In that same instant is when Gin extends his Zanpakuto. Fate won't put up the spell faster than Gin can extend his sword(like you said neither Fate nor Kyle have bullet time reaction) so atleast Peter and Psylocke(if she isn't outright controlled) will be cut to ribbons before Fate and Kyle can make a shield. The gap in our team's speed is huge and that's what I'm going to exploit.

Psylocke beat Shadow King by imprisoning him in her mind with all the power she could muster and she lost her TP because of it. Even in their first battle he destroyed her psychic form and almost killed her. The Crimson Dawn was the reason she could even do that in the first place. When did Psylocke beat a full powered Rachel? Was it during the Dark Angel Saga? I don't recall when that happened. In any case, if we go by feats, Sidious is above Shadow King in telepathy/empathic control. Even if he couldnt outright take control of her, he can completely drain her of her energy.

Years ago, Emperor Palpatine chose Byss as his private retreat, and Imperial architects and engineers were commissioned to build him an opulent palace. Several million humans were allowed to emigrate to the world, where the Emperor and his adepts used the dark side to feed off their life energies. The planet's population eventually reached almost 20 billion, and all outgoing communications were censored by security agents.

--Taken from The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia

What better lure for multitudes than Byss's siren call of beauty and peace? Once there, their wills are destroyed by the Emperor and his Adepts, and replaced with an illusion of tranquility as they blissfully surrender their life energy to sustain the Emperor.

--Taken from Dark Empire Sourcebook

He kept this up even when he was lightyears away from the planet and doing a number of other things. He should be able to handle Betsy on his own. But he doesn't have to with Blackheart there to aid who he himself has displayed world level telepathy. Above that, Blackheart can utilize magic to hypnotize her and make her mind assault her teammates. And before you state Fate can counter it with magic, he wont know until she kills everyone else on your team with her and Sidious's tp in an instant. I believe the Fates generally have tp immunity(I'm not sure about Hector but I'll give him the benefit of a doubt for now) so he will be fine from that.

Basically I use my speed advantage to overwhelm you whilst magically/telepathically controlling your most powerful telepath(if she survives the speedblitz) to kill all but your sole magic user only to kill her once this is done. Making it a 25 on 1.

I almost forgot to mention this in prep. With the knowledge that you have a powerful telepath, Sidious and Blackheart will augment their abilities by drawing upon the negative emotions in the state(Note not stealing their souls or anything of the like). That amounts to a little more than 8 million citizens. Also considering New York is known throughout the country for it's friendly people, they should be well bolstered after a day.

@juiceboks:

Even if Kyle and Fate look over that doesn't effect their shields, Kyle can make persistent constructs as he's able to make multiple constructs at the same time, the shield stays up and Gin stays out. Your team may have a speed advantage but they can't use it as they can't penetrate the barrier.

As for when the fight with Rachel occured, I can't recall off the top of my head, but I'll dig through my comics and scans if you'd like.

Your source says the Emperor and his adepts, how many adepts? How much of that was his own actual power? There's at least two other people (as in adepts being plural and all) brainwashing people so at a minimum he could have a third of the power your talking about (maybe less than that).

As for Psylocke's power she's at that Jean Grey/Xavier level of power as of Uncanny X-Force 18.

Here's a quote from Rick Remender about her current power level:

"The Jean Grey of the "Age of Apocalypse" reality opened Betsy's mind up. She unlocked a lot of stuff. In this issue, you saw the giant, Phoenix-like butterfly effect Betsy generated when she was fighting Archangel. She knocked him down with that. No one had accomplished that to this point -- she hadn't been able to get into his mind before that either. He had just been this thing that was way, way beyond her. Whatever Jean Grey did when she was inside Betsy's head unlocked some potential."

"We're going to be seeing a lot of that. She is an Omega level. One thing we wanted to accomplish with this story was that Betsy comes out a full fledged Omega level mutant, on par with Xavier or Jean. In my mind, that's what was accomplished when Jean unlocked the powers in her head."

(Here's the link so you can verify if you wish) http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=35905

Two things about the attempt to hypnotize Betsy, One: My team is all linked together if Blackheart attempts to break into Betsy's mind my team will know and Fate or Kyle (or both) can help bolster her defense. Two: By mind jacking the guards earlier your team has tipped their hand, so naturally my team will be extra vigilante of any trickery your team tries so the slightest intrusion and my teammates will bolster Betsy.

Didn't see this, if their powers are fueled by hate or rage or fear, Kyle can negate any of those emotions jacking them up by channeling Hope, Love and Compassion to shut their powers off completely. That would be covered under full knowledge of how their powers work.

@juiceboks: So now we've gone from distracting them to make the barrier fall too blitz before the barrier's up?

Regardless your team can't move faster than Kyle can will a barrier into exsistence, Gin has to unseal his Zanpakto's bankai by actually saying the word 'Bankai' and then the name of the technique...I mean even the word Bankai is more than enough time for Kyle to literally think a bubble into existence, you're not blitzing my team and just to further drive this point home

Kyle manages to form a construct against a energy blast from Gathnet.

Channeling four and six emotions consecutively and making persistent constructs.

Mixing emotions: Compassion, Hope, Will to enhance Defense and Hope and will to enhance Offense.

And once that barrier goes up, Gin is not piercing it.

She's gonna be attacked right off the bat so I doubt she would have the time to link everyone up.

Why are your team's thoughts faster than my team's? In the time it takes you to prepare and make an attack Betsy can link my team up.

Even so, the other two don't have the feats the suggest they can stand up to either Blackheart or Sidious. Also Veitha said I can't manipulate the guards until the fight actually starts. So as Blackheart makes the guards attack, Sidious assaults Betsy both empathic and telepathically. Once Blackheart is done with an act which shouldnt take more than an instant, He uses magic to overcome her defenses while Fate and Kyle get blitzed by Gin.

I disagree, I think Fate for one, who has overpowered Nabu, Mordru and Obsidion's possession respectively can definetly bolster Betsy's mental defense. Kyle on the other hand has mastered Hope, which can be used to strengthen Betsy's resolve. And since your team's powers are apparently enhanced by negative emotions He can also channel, love and compassion and weaken your guy's accordingly, I mean He's used Love to stop people from killing before. This is by far not as clear cut and dry as your saying.

Not mentioning my team knows what your teams powers are and how they work, they aren't going to be caught flatfooted.

EDIT: Kyle could even be raising a barrier and weakening your team at the same time by channeling multiple emotions at the same time.

Bump

@juiceboks I'm going to continue with an actual battleplan.

My team (with their lantern rings) channels Avarice and makes an army of Orange Lanterns (50 or so) they go on to take the SOV's out two to one. Any lanterns defeated can be reformed easily.

Since my goal is to arrest your team and I've given my team Kyle's abilities more or less we channel love and compassion on the weakened (if not defeated) Sidious/Blackheart combo. And imprison them in a love and compassion bubble reinforced with Doctor Fate's order magic.

Using her Binary level powers Carol easily blitzes Gin and puts him in a bubble as well.

Samehada as a large source of power for Kisame will be incinerated and then he'll be placed in a bubble as well.

Doflamingo will probably be the last to fall but at this point superior numbers and greater firepower will trump him (55 v 1) once he goes down he too will be restrained.

@sovereign91001 My apologies I meant to get back to you on this. Let me address several points here.

1. The Sidious feat was most certainly done using his mastery of the force considering no Sith(let alone an adept) has a level of power anywhere near his. The most likely explanation was that they were giving him energy to keep the process up while he was pulling the vast majority of the weight to keep them subjugated even from lightyears away. That's not the only time he's affected a massive amount of people such as on Coruscant when he mind wiped millions at a time and empathically manipulated his millions of troops on the second Death Star before he died.

2. The point about Gin unsealing his Zanpakuto was very important to note and I honestly forgot about that minor detail. However he can simply have unsealed before they go to the bank as per my prep. Even without it unsealed he can still flash step to blitz or use his Buto or Butorenji ability. In addition all it would take is for him stab anyone once for his poison to take effect.

3. I meant to address this when you first brought it up, Blackheart uses a mix of magic and his demonic abilities to do the things he does. That being said, he doesn't utilize chaos magic so if he were to port everyone(including the mini Blackhearts) into your bubble, Sidious, Gin and Doflamingo can blitz easily that way. Hector isn't quick enough to react to port us back before we can do anything and even then that would take concentration and being under attack in close quarters would certainly inhibit that.

4. Sidious and Blackheart feed off negative emotions of those around them. That doesnt mean people with hope and resolve weaken them. That has worked for neither one of them. Sidious actually crushes hope and resolve for individuals on a massive scale so trying to empathically manipulate him would be impossible for someone like Kyle not that it would do anything to lessen his grip on the Force. Blackheart himself is a hell lord who has dealt with millions of souls and individuals at a time. You'd be hard pressed to affect him either. They get a massive boost during the 1 day prep and arrive with that level of power you can't take away. Also in reference to those scans of Kyle, not one of them proves he can react to a speedblitz from someone like Gin as he saw both parties prior to be attacked and had time to put up a shield by simply thinking of it. Kyle's been tagged by people nowhere near FTL so I don't doubt Gin can do the same.

5. Betsy would be hardpressed to establish a strong tp link before Sidious and Blackheart take control of her. She doesn't have the feats to suggest she can withstand attacks from either one of them(let alone both at the same time) especially with a power boost. Fate can help but Hector hasn't shown to be able to instantaneously dispel mind control from someone else(unless you provide a scan depicting him doing so) while being possessed by an entity as powerful as Blackheart. To be frank it doesn't even have to hold for more than second for Gin to do his thing and kill her along with Spider Man and possibly Miss Marvel.

To be clear this is my plan. Sidious and Blackheart attack Betsy's mind and sever any link she may have tried to establish(at the same time Blackheart causes the distraction) while Gin flash steps to blitz her, Peter and possibly Ms. Marvel(since you won't have time to cast a spell for your team to see Gin..he will be invisible to everyone except Betsy) You have to prove that Hector specifically has a strong spiritual attunement to see him. Not saying he doesn't, but you're gonna have to prove it. After which Blackheart ports us all into your bubble and lets the rest of my team blitz and use their powers to overcome your team with superior numbers.

@juiceboks

There is a question if Doctor Fate, the Sorcerer Supreme of DC has a strong spiritual attunement?

So it's not just Betsy he's fighting, he's Fighting Betsy, Hector Hall, Nabu and all the previous Fates as well. And speaking about this psychic thing somethings been bothering me about this whole thing and I finally put it together.Okay I have conformation that Betsy is at the Xavier/Jean Grey level of TP but according to you Betsy is far outclassed in power by Sidious. So you are using telepathy far in excess of the Rachel Grey limit established by @veitha you're using shadow King level of TP but to quote you from earlier:

"In any case, if we go by feats, Sidious is above Shadow King in telepathy/empathic control."

Now I know for a fact Shadow King has TP in excess of Xavier so now we're in Phoenix class of TP or above because I can't think of a single Green or Dark Phoenix feats (and I have a lot of Phoenix feats) that puts her on Sidious' level.

Apparently it's all his own power as well because:

"The Sidious feat was most certainly done using his mastery of the force considering no Sith(let alone an adept) has a level of power anywhere near his."

So there went my theory of it being the work of a bunch of adapts amplifying his power, and then on top of all that you want to enhance his powers further with your prep? So he's more powerful than those feats youposted

Betsy is right at the ceiling of power for TP according to the rules, you wouldn't be able to go over her power. So either you are at about her level or you are vastly over inflating your character's capabilities. I'd prefer to think that is not the case so So I am moving that @veitha needs to DQ this character immediately as the power ceiling has been breached by a large degree.

I'll get to the rest of your post after this has been addressed.

@sovereign91001 Okay lemme attempt to clear up that about Sidious.

First of all that feat didnt happen all at once. The population of Byss filled up over time. First in millions then reached almost 20 billion as per the excerpt says. He never mind controlled billions of people all at once, he kept them subjugated over a long course of time. Something he most certainly wouldn't have been able to keep up without the life energy of the billions of residents.

His greatest instantaneous mind assault feat is when he mind wiped millions on Coruscant. While Shadow King's is the assault of everyone on Earth. I don't recall Veitha limiting me to powering up as part of my prep. If that isn't allowed then I will concede to that point.

Now I'm no expert on Phoenix. But I do doubt Sidious is on Dark Phoenix's level of TK or TP. I guess anyone privy on the subject can confirm or debunk that claim.

@juiceboks: I'm only going by what you said that he has greater TP than Shadow King and if you're character is at the power level limit, why would he be able to amp himself over it?

The population of Byss filled up over time. First in millions then reached almost 20 billion as per the excerpt says. He never mind controlled billions of people all at once, he kept them subjugated over a long course of time. Something he most certainly wouldn't have been able to keep up without the life energy of the billions of residents.

So it wasn't his own muscle doing this? I'm confused cause when I questioned whether his adepts were amping him and he had at a minimum a third of the power in that feat, you told me that he was doing the 'vast majority of the work' but now he needs billions of peoples power to achive a feat of this level?

The mindwiping of millions at the same time is still a greater feat then anything I can recall Rachel doing without the Phoenix, in fact in New X-Men Jean put Xavier's mind in a million mutant minds, pulled it out and reassembled it and Xavier was marveled at the impossibility of such a feat and that was only one million minds.

@juiceboks: @sovereign91001: are you guys ready to vote?