Vamp vs Luther Strode

Curious to see how Strode fairs against Metal Gear's own superhuman knife wielder; seeing as he already fought one.

• Full knowledge
• Standard equipment
• In-Character
• Winner by Death

Bump.

Luther rips him in half.

Close fight. I want to side with vamp initially. They have a lot in common.

How?

Vamp. Faster, more skilled, great healing factor, and has plenty of knives to pierce Luther with.

Vamp if his muscle reading ability works on Luther. If it does Luther would be hard pressed to even land a hit on him.

Gotta give it to Vamp

This is a super close match.

I edge it to Luther. IMO he is a bit faster, bit better at healing, can use muscles to catch the blades, and better showing of Move Reading than Vamp. He is alot stronger too. This match would play out alot like Luther and Jacks first match, only Vamp is slightly the slower than Luther IMO.

I think Vamp has the speed and skill edge. He was able to dance around Raiden even after his sword turned red hot from him swinging it around.

Vamp should take this.

Vamp has Muscle reading? Did not know. Well Luther has precog/body reading as well. I'll give it to Vamp 6/10 due to his speed & skill though. Vamp's skill seems more refined from the videos I have seen.

Not sure how the Knives matter here.

Gallery

At all. The muscles will catch them easy.

Luther Healing Factor is better. Luther is faster IMO. Luther has better Move Reading.

Vamp speed is not superior at all. Raiden in MGS4 did not have the insane or speed abilities of Gray Fox in MGS, or the super upgrades Raiden gets in MGR.

He was not that fast. Proof you ask? Easy.

1) Non Cyborg Raiden hand to hand and beat Vamp in MGS2.

2) Solid Snake beat Vamp in the MGS2 Comic Adaptation.

3) Vamp has not only been head shot 3 times, but in no way showed the reaction speed to dodge said head shots in MGS2 and MGS4.

4) Vamp was fought by Old Snake and handled by Old Snake for some time in MGS4.

Other than street level feats of Bullet reaction like Batman, Task Master, or Captain America level, Vamp shown nothing to be as fast as say Luther or Jack. The guy been hand to hand with no success in speed blitzing Human Raiden, Snake, and Old Snake! He is fast, but its different kind of fast.

The only reason he deflects bullets is thanks to his very top rate comic book peak human speed combine with move reading. If he is faster than Mach speeds, then no bullet should have touch him, at all.

Also the Sword changing color means nothing, as that is a game ability for Raidens sword since MGS2. It radiates heat or some nonsense. Turning blue to red. Nothing to do with speed.

Watch this video. Vamp and Raiden in REAL TIME with Old Snake. Wheres that super speed again?

Vamp is very fast, can run up 100s of meters along columes, and on water. He has bullet dodging and top not aim dodging. He is not pushing Luther Strode speeds as the Art Work in Luther Strode show.

Also who is the more skilled one here? Yes Vamp is a better fighter, but his move reading is not nearly as good as Luther's is either.

Same as above.

@thefallen_1: Honestly I don't know enough about Vamp to address everything you said.....So....@nickzambuto?

Vamp in a good one

Me and Nick have had these arguments many times before. He is convinced that MGS4 Raiden is as fast as Fox was, or as MGR was. thus making Vamp that fast. Of course this is silly as MGS4 Raiden speed feats are lacking to the upgraded body of MGR, or Fox in MGS. No need to rehash those arguments again.

Not saying this is not a close match, but the facts are Luther is Stronger, as fast, dismembers with karate chops, catches knives with his muscles, and has better showing with his Meat Vision working with his Move Readings than the flawed Move Reading of Vamp.

@thefallen_1:

1. Vamp doesn't use normal knives, he was able to throw one and pierce through Laughing Octopus's tentacle despite the fact that she uses those things to block bullets without a problem. His knives can also stand up to an H/F Blade, and if he's strong enough to parry strikes from Raiden, he can probably overpower Luther's pecs and rip his knife out if it gets clenched up in there. All that said, Vamp doesn't stab people, he only stabs as a finishing move, his fighting style is mostly about slashing. Plus he's usually shown to be equipped with, like, dozens of knifes, so all in all Luther's ability to grab things in his muscles really isn't going to be much of a game changer.
2. Raiden was plenty fast. He could deflect bullets with his H/F Blade back when he was a human, in fact if I'm correct, the only thing he couldn't deflect was shotgun shells do to their spread effect, but besides that he was able to keep himself perfectly safe from whole hailstorms of assault rifle fire, and even Metal Gear RAY's heavy gatling guns. He was also able to take on Solidus's harrier jet and react to Fortune's Railgun when he was human, and slaughter a horde of Arsenal Tengu by himself using his sword, and the Tengu were all wearing powered exoskeletons and could deflect bullets too. To be honest Raiden's reaction time might have rivaled Luther Strode's back when he was a human, these feats are all perfectly in line with what Luther usually does. When he became a cyborg his raw speed was increased to match his reflexes, and even in MGS4 he could move at invisible speeds and have a whole fight scene in a few seconds, neither of which Luther has ever done. Raiden is definitely superior to Luther, and Vamp was even better than Raiden.
3. Human Raiden never fought Vamp in hand-to-hand. You're making that up.
4. Solid Snake is faster than Luther Strode too. And let's not forget Vamp stomped Snake in their first encounter, clearly Vamp is the faster of the two and Snake can only beat him because Solid Snake can do anything.
5. Vamp doesn't need his muscle reading to dodge bullets, it's just a bonus. He confessed that he was unable to read Raiden's muscles, yet in the same scene when Raiden fired at him, Vamp contorted his body around every bullet without moving from his place. He was only ever shot either A) by surprise when he had no chance to dodge, or B) by master marksman like Solid Snake and Raiden.
6. The H/F Blade does not create heat, it vibrates at a high frequency to lacerate it's target's molecules. Vamp and Raiden turned the sword red hot from the friction created by their strikes.

As far as I know Luther Strode has only ever dodged automatic bullets, blitzed soldiers, and moved like a blur. These are feats that Solid Snake and Raiden have performed. I can think of at least two instances where Snake has moved faster than the eye can see, and he's fast enough to speedblitz bullet timers like Meryl, but in his first encounter with Vamp, he's the one who got blitzed. Speed is Vamp's thing, in MGS2 the audience was led to believe for the whole game that he had real supernatural powers due to the things he was able to do, but in MGS4 it was revealed that, nope, he's just a regular guy with nanomachines in his blood that's really skilled and really fast, to such a degree that it seems supernatural. Vamp was fast enough to swim like a dolphin through a vat of zero buoyancy water; that's one step off from flying. No way is Luther faster than him. And let's not forget Vamp's superhuman martial arts abilities, he knows techniques as advanced as muscle reading and shadow binding, and he was able to take on a Cyborg Ninja using nothing but a bunch of knives, no way is Luther laying a finger on him.

@nickzambuto: your Vamp bias is blinding you here Nick :).

Luther is drawn breaking sound barriers. Jack is so fast he is drawn as streaks of after images. Luther easily keeps up with him. Librarian moved his head after a bullet was fired feet from his head. Luther is faster than him. Vamp is a peak human who CANNOT dodge bullets he sees coming for his head. On three seperate occasions.

Meanwhile Luther been shot twice. Once learning his powers, and again a second time on purpose to feign death.

Vamp knives can be adamantium, means nothing if the side of the blades get pinched. Jack is strong enough to make 10 foot in circumference impact craters, that's strong. Yet his razor blades got pinched like everything else. Unable to get the free.

Any proof (I know there is not, big fan too remember) of Vamp having half the strength of Raiden? What feats other than fighting Raiden does he have? Fighting someone is not proof of strength my friend, otherwise Kraven would be a 20 toner and not a 2 toner.

@sirfizzwhizz: My bias is not blinding me, I just know what these characters are capable of, and I'm telling you Luther Strode is not better than Vamp. For one thing, don't say Luther can easily keep up with Jack, that's complete bologna. Luther Strode can barely even react to Jack at all, let alone "easily keep up with him." They only fight on even ground because of Luther's obscene strength and damage soak, which evens out with Jack's obscene speed and skill, and even then, guess what? Jack's best feat of leaving after images is not on par with Vamp being completely invisible. Honestly neither is breaking the sound barrier, you'd need to be moving much faster than that to be invisible. So the guy who speedblitzed Luther Strode, still isn't as fast as Vamp.

Librarian's feat sounds a lot like Snake's feat against Olga, it might be slightly better because of how casual Librarian was, but like I said Vamp speedblitzed him in their first encounter, whereas Luther isn't any faster than Librarian.

Vamp is almost as strong as Raiden. He was able to injure Raiden and send him flying with a kick, and in their second fight they were grappling and locking blades on completely even ground. Vamp even overpowered Raiden directly at one point and pinned his arms to his own back with knives.

Vamp doesn't need any feats besides that, it's more than enough. The difference between Vamp fighting Raiden and Kraven fighting Spider-Man is that Kraven never directly matched strength with Spider-Man, while Vamp did against Raiden. Luther can't lock his knives simply by clenching, even if he's stronger than Vamp, Vamp would have the leverage advantage. And even then like I said, Vamp has plenty of knives at his disposal.

And I still don't see a way for Luther to tag Vamp given he can read muscles and is ridiculously agile. Raiden is about 1,000x the fighter Luther Strode is, and he's probably faster considering his feat of destroying three Gekko faster than the eye could see, but when Vamp had room to maneuver Raiden could barely land any strikes on him.

You don't seriously think that Luther Strode is THAT vastly superior to Raiden that he could overcome Vamp's muscle reading and agility and tag him enough times to overpower his healing factor, all while avoiding death himself from a master martial artist?

@nickzambuto: God dangit Nick, your going to drag me into another one of these.... fine. Uhg.

My bias is not blinding me, I just know what these characters are capable of, and I'm telling you Luther Strode is not better than Vamp.

I know what they characters are capable of as well, I arued these points with ya many times.

For one thing, don't say Luther can easily keep up with Jack, that's complete bologna. Luther Strode can barely even react to Jack at all, let alone "easily keep up with him." They only fight on even ground because of Luther's obscene strength and damage soak, which evens out with Jack's obscene speed and skill, and even then, guess what?

This is all false my friend. All of it.

Gallery

6 panels of Luther easily reacting to and sounter attacking Jack. What is more impressive is Luther was fighting Jack and Bender at the same time!

Gallery

13 panels of their final fight where Luther counter attacks, gets his own attacks in, and easily catches Jack everytime, and getting attacks in Jack was unaware of like in scans 11-13. What is more impressive is Luther was not only fighting, but saving his Ptra from any attack Jack made on her, much harder than fighting for just yourself.

Both fights are solid proof of Jack superior speed not being so fast for Luther to counter at all.

Nick.... Nick..... ugh. Im upset you went this rout, you should have known better :/

Jack's best feat of leaving after images is not on par with Vamp being completely invisible. Honestly neither is breaking the sound barrier, you'd need to be moving much faster than that to be invisible. So the guy who speedblitzed Luther Strode, still isn't as fast as Vamp.

Librarian's feat sounds a lot like Snake's feat against Olga, it might be slightly better because of how casual Librarian was, but like I said Vamp speedblitzed him in their first encounter, whereas Luther isn't any faster than Librarian.

Unless Vamp or MGS4 Raiden have shown to break the sound barrier, they are not faster.

Unless Vamp or MGS4 Raiden shows straight up after images like this, they are not faster.

Also this feat >>>>> Snakes own bullet feats. There is over 20 drawn bullets in a spread pattern, no more than a few feet apart each. Yet Strode weaves through them all without getting hit once. Better than Snakes, as much I love Snake.

Vamp is almost as strong as Raiden. He was able to injure Raiden and send him flying with a kick, and in their second fight they were grappling and locking blades on completely even ground. Vamp even overpowered Raiden directly at one point and pinned his arms to his own back with knives.

Vamp doesn't need any feats besides that, it's more than enough. The difference between Vamp fighting Raiden and Kraven fighting Spider-Man is that Kraven never directly matched strength with Spider-Man, while Vamp did against Raiden. Luther can't lock his knives simply by clenching, even if he's stronger than Vamp, Vamp would have the leverage advantage. And even then like I said, Vamp has plenty of knives at his disposal.

no he didnt. Raiden could tear Vamp apart. If Vamp has equal strength to throw around Gecko's then provide a feat of CACULABLE strength Nick. Do it. Not some fight where Raiden might be seen holding back, that is not solid proof of anything.

This is as bad as the time you and I argue, and still argue Solid Snake having the strength to fight 500 toner Grey Fox. We both know Grey Fox held back his strength. To say other wise nonsense.

Same applies here. Unless Vamp has strength feats in Raiden's league, then he is just peak human. Raiden was holding back for whatever misplace sense of of a fair fight. Or the fight itself is seen as PIS.

And I still don't see a way for Luther to tag Vamp given he can read muscles and is ridiculously agile. Raiden is about 1,000x the fighter Luther Strode is, and he's probably faster considering his feat of destroying three Gekko faster than the eye could see, but when Vamp had room to maneuver Raiden could barely land any strikes on him.

This is crap my friend. Being a better fighter means what against a guy who can see 1000 moves ahead by statement, and on panel sees 16 moves by art? Add to this Meat Vision which actually allows Luther to see the very muscles underneath clothing and skin for accurate assessment of the body.

What is more funny is the fact Strode regularly fights Bender, Librarian, and Jack, all with the same super advance move reading from Meat Vision and Move Reading combo.

Yet Vamps move reading is superior?

No its not. He could not even dodge the bullet that grazed him much less predict Raiden accurately. Yet all the foes Luther fights have different muscles that he is still able to predict just fine.

Far superior.

You don't seriously think that Luther Strode is THAT vastly superior to Raiden that he could overcome Vamp's muscle reading and agility and tag him enough times to overpower his healing factor, all while avoiding death himself from a master martial artist?

Raiden could have, and should have ripped Vamp apart easier than bullets with his strength alone. If anything it shows Raiden was trying to fight Vamp fair more than anything in a fair duel. This is seen in their last fight too.

However Raiden and Strode are different.

• 1) Strode is faster than MGS4 Raiden.
• 2) Strode has way more advance Move Reading, able to see clearly up to 12 moves ahead on panel. Raiden does not have this.
• 3) Strode is not stronger than Raiden, but Strode USES his strength unlike Raiden showed in MGS4 against Vamp.
• 4) Strode has Healing, Raiden does not.
• 5) Strode does not need a sword to cut people to pieces, Raiden clearly needs his sword to slice and dice.
• 6) Strode can disarm peoples weapons with his muscles, Raiden cannot.

So comparing Raiden to Vamp is not productive as Strode has superior abilities, even if Raiden has superior stats in strength. It is not comprable.

strode

Strode actually sees 1000 moves that the opponent can make. So he Stomps.